=== asac_ is now known as asac [10:14] hi people [10:15] running ubuntu-umpc on a eeePC 901 [10:15] can't seem to make the WiFi start [10:15] any tips? [10:15] linux-backporst is installed [10:16] asac: ping [10:16] ogra: ping [10:16] playya: hi! [10:20] volume keys also don't work! :( [10:20] BUGabundo_work1, lsmod|grep ath [10:21] which ath modules are loaded ? [10:21] with l-b-m ath5k shold replace ath_pci [10:21] nothing [10:22] are you sure there is even an atheros card in it ? [10:22] (lspci should tell) [10:22] what card usualy comes on the 901? [10:22] no idea [10:22] i never touched a 901 :) i thought it would be atheros [10:22] Ralink 0781 [10:23] oh, thats indeed quite different :) [10:23] hehehe [10:24] lots of small quirks with umpc [10:24] compiz-setting-manager won't let me press its icons (no idea why) [10:25] https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive [10:25] the ubuntu installer is a few pixels bigger that the window space available [10:25] try that driver [10:25] * BUGabundo_work1 tries stuff [10:25] yes, these are the drawbacks we want to get reports about for jaunty [10:25] what about sound keys? [10:25] some of the size issues are known already [10:26] this laptop is meant to a windows user! [10:26] not a dev... [10:26] should I try another OS? [10:26] but note that UMPC isnt designed for netbooks [10:26] eeebuntu, ubuntueee ? [10:26] it is for UMPCs :) [10:26] hehe sure ... [10:26] but I like it! [10:26] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/TurnUMPCDesktopIntoNetbook [10:26] Feh. The difference between a UMPC and a netbook is fairly trivial. UMPC ought work on the Eee. [10:26] it has a great look and its more optimize for this screens [10:26] that would give you a netbook desktop on a netbook after using -umpc for installing [10:27] persia, well :) [10:27] But that's just a change of launcher. It doesn't make the bits complained about work. [10:27] well, it will fix some of the size related breakage [10:28] a) it doesnt/cant use compiz [10:28] a) isn't a good thing. [10:28] PPA added [10:28] Won't fix size-related breakage for the earlier Eees. [10:28] b) the panle size is smaller, thus you get some extra pixels for the apps [10:28] b) is a good point. A better interface for app switching would be nice. [10:28] so many apps that actually break due to some stolen extra pixels will work [10:29] wait guys! [10:29] so I can turn the UMPC into a netbook? [10:29] BUGabundo_work1, i think you need to add a /etc/pm/config file with SUSPEND_MODULES entry for this module so suspend/resume works [10:29] and it has it advantages? [10:30] Anyway, technically, the early Eees were UMPCs, rather than "netbooks", at least according to Intel's definition of "netbook". [10:30] thanks ogra... me looks for it [10:30] it has some advantages [10:30] in jaunty we will have a selection option to switch between UMPC and netbook desktops at install [10:30] * BUGabundo_work1 instaling RT deiver source [10:30] it also has some disadvantages :) [10:31] RT driver source? What? [10:31] i.e. if you prefer compiz effects, netbook desktop wont work with compiz at all [10:31] persia, dkms package for a driver we dont inclide [10:31] *nclude [10:31] for the wifi persia [10:31] It's called "RT"? [10:31] at least the web cam works [10:32] rt2860-source [10:32] Ah, ok. The 2860 makes is less confusing. [10:32] DKMS running now! [10:32] not Real Time of course [10:32] persia, because it's for realtek 0781 cards :) [10:32] FWIR it doesn't even come on ibex kernel flavours [10:32] right [10:33] this DKMS thing is nice! [10:33] it will be in jauntys default kernel [10:33] Makes sense. When I hear "RT" I always think "realtime". [10:33] I know persia [10:33] that's why I corrected my self [10:33] dkms has its drawbacks ... but its nice if you have the ressources to compile stuff [10:33] it was another thread of thought started with ogra [10:34] examples of drawbacks? [10:34] * ogra wouldnt want dkms on a linux based mobile phone ;) [10:34] * BUGabundo_work1 hates sudo without autocomplete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [10:34] * BUGabundo_work1 looking for suspend config [10:34] "sorry, but you cant use your phone for the naxt 24h because there is a driver recompile in progress :P" [10:35] I'm not sure I like DKMS for anything. Some machines can compile faster, but there's no guard against dirty compilation environments. [10:35] eheh [10:35] On the other hand, it does save *tons* of coordination on ABI changes. [10:35] yeah [10:35] ogra: I've opened /etc/pm/config.d/00sleep_module [10:35] now what? [10:36] uncomment? the sleep_module line? [10:36] SUSPEND_MODULES="" [10:36] make sure that line is in there [10:36] I have no idea what those module are, until I debug hibernate! [10:37] well, i'd assume its called rt2860 or rt28xx or something [10:37] check with lsmod [10:37] i'm not even sure it *needs* unloading [10:37] so check that forst [10:37] *first [10:38] rt2860sta ? [10:38] * BUGabundo_work1 rebooting and testing suspend [10:39] I wonder if it is one of those modules that is making my own laptop not hibernate! [10:39] s/hibernate/suspend/ [10:39] hibernate works with usw [10:39] do you use that driver on your laptop ? [10:40] usesusp [10:40] nope [10:40] intel wifi agn [10:40] ahhh wifi is now working [10:40] good [10:41] * BUGabundo_work1 suspending [10:41] * BUGabundo_work1 booting [10:41] * ogra only knew that the eee 1000 uses that driver... had no idea about the 901 [10:41] resume works [10:41] * BUGabundo_work1 hibernating [10:41] good as well :) [10:42] need to place that function on the power button [10:42] btusb_intr_completre: hci0 ... failed to resubmit (2) [10:42] you can just switch the powermanager to always show the icon [10:42] thats bluetooth [10:43] taking toooooo long to hibernate! [10:43] it has 2GBs of RAM [10:43] and 2.5GBs of swap (on 16GiBs SSD) [10:43] well, it needs to compress all your dirty pages in ram to write them to disk [10:43] indeed that takes a moment [10:44] that's why I like uswsusp .... it compresss it, making it fast! [10:44] * BUGabundo_work1 hibernate done! booting [10:44] and breaks a hell lot of other stuff [10:44] 4GiBs of RAM to a SATA disk take 15 secs! [10:44] what does it break?= [10:44] right, but it breaks your framebuffer devicdes for example [10:45] never noticed it ! [10:45] so i.e. usplash might hang your machine on certain HW combos [10:45] maybe my NVidia driver can handle it! [10:45] and there are a lot of other compatibility pobs [10:45] *probs [10:45] 16 out of 20 it hibernates just fine on my laptop [10:46] 2 / 20 it hangs after saving to disk (but boot OK) [10:46] if it wors for you, you are lucky ...its no option as a general distro solution though [10:46] 2/ 20 it won't start to hibernate or will kernel panic! [10:46] I know [10:46] I'm subscribed to the LP bug where it was discussed! [10:46] * BUGabundo_work1 systems boots fine! [10:46] and it doent help improving the kernel based suspend indeed [10:46] no need to had extra lines to pm [10:47] since it hides the probs so people wont report bugs [10:49] I'll have and eye on that when reporting bugs [10:59] ogra: can the abrowser bottom bar be smaller? [11:01] you mean midbrowser ? i dont think so [11:02] i'd recommends firefox on a netbook anyway [11:02] ok [11:02] already installed [11:03] i will likely drop midbrowser from the umpc iage in jaunty and rather package the firefox grab and drag extension [11:03] midbrowser is really only good on hildon desktops, on a normal desktop you cant even reach the menu easily [11:03] quick steps to get netbook look? [11:04] look at the wikipage i gave you [11:08] * BUGabundo_work1 looking [11:08] ogra: how many DPIs should I use? [11:08] the user/owner likes really tinny ... everything [11:08] what ever fits you ? [11:09] 72 is too small [11:09] 96 is the default afaik [11:09] and anything in between, I'm afraid it will break some apps [11:09] * BUGabundo_work1 trying 80 DPIs [11:09] The DPI should be set based on your hardware. Anything else *will* have font issues. [11:10] I know [11:10] that's why I asked [11:10] maybe I'll just lower the Font size! [11:11] So, to determine DPI, use the pythagorean theorem. Your dpi is the quotient of the square root of the sum of the squares of your horizontal and vertical resolutions and the size of your screen. [11:12] 1024*600 [11:12] humm [11:12] so sqrt(1048000+360000)/screen size [11:13] screen size on inchs? [11:13] 8.9-9" ? [11:13] Yep. [11:13] dots-per-inch [11:13] 131,87049389645064630519757706331 [11:13] wayyyyy to big! [11:13] lol [11:13] So about 132 DPI. [11:13] Anything else will make your fonts look fuzzy. [11:14] Note that there is a GNOME bug that means values other than 96 tend to make GNOME apps look bad. [11:14] actually 80 DPI (and even 72) are quite readble [11:15] Ubuntu studio instaled and I still get Human colours all around! [11:15] .gconf remove.... continuing with netbook personalization [11:17] ogra: do I really have to turn off the 3D effects?? [11:17] yes [11:17] it looks so nice with them! [11:17] the launcher will break if you use compiz [11:17] bah [11:17] Then don't use the netbook launcher :) [11:17] right, tats the alternative [11:17] ill give it a try [11:17] use a native ubuntu desktop [11:17] I quite like the gnome menu [11:17] I might install Gnome Do on my Q1 [11:18] That's a nice idea. [11:18] we should probably look into it for jaunty :) [11:18] I have gnome do too [11:21] humm [11:21] I really am used to gnome panel look [11:21] will leave for the user to decide! [11:34] ogra: any tips on how to get the volume keys to work? [11:34] no idea, sorry, you likely need an .fdi file for them or some such [11:35] so I better start loggin xrev keys ? [12:01] ogra should I file separates bugs against EVERY app that can't handle 1024x600 screens? [12:01] that would help, yes [12:02] though we're only intrested in the shipped set for now [12:02] stuff like installer, udpatemanager [12:02] installer is known [12:02] gnome sign in window [12:03] i wasnt aware u-m had issues [12:03] "gnome sign in window" ?? [12:03] let me find the package name [12:03] what sign ? [12:03] lol [12:04] gdmsetup [12:04] this with netbook looks and ubuntustudio theme! [12:05] ogra: you know what I miss with this window manager? [12:05] Super-L + F11 [12:05] what does that do ? [12:05] with both metacity and compiz it makes most apps full screen [12:05] but maximus doesn't! :( [12:05] why do you need Super-L for that ? [12:06] LOL [12:06] F11 alone should do ... but thats app specific [12:06] F11 only works on FF, netbeans, and OOo [12:06] wors only for apps supporting it [12:06] as far as I know [12:06] but on metacity and compiz MOST apps will do that! [12:06] even if not supported! [12:06] give it a try [12:06] if can, of course [12:07] bah... how do I run gnome-applet on the netbook look? [12:08] I can't add stuff to the top pannel! [12:08] done! [12:08] removed window piccker, added gnome-apllet, readded window picket [12:10] uau 640MBs of RAM in use! [12:10] this is quite a light version! [12:13] ogra: can't find a package for gdmsetup! [12:14] should I file against GDM? [12:18] ogra: I'm filling them under a tag [12:18] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=small-screen [12:22] BUGabundo_work1, What about the installer doesn't work at 1024x600? [12:23] * persia was fairly sure it worked at 800x600 [12:23] it shops a tiny bit at the bottom [12:23] and keeps changing it possition [12:23] Do you have a screenshot? For which question? [12:23] up -> down -> up etc [12:24] not now persia [12:24] already instaled [12:24] OK. I did my testing at 800x600 (need to kill the lefthand bar to make it work), but didn't see that. I'll try again. [12:25] if I manage to load umpc on qemu, I'll try to force the screen to 1024*600 [12:25] but for some reason qemu takes agessss to load umpc [12:25] Did you install kqemu-source? [12:26] note sure [12:26] * BUGabundo_work1 checking [12:27] it wasnt! [12:27] its installing now [12:27] never saw anything before recomending it! [12:27] That should make qemu just a bit faster :) [12:28] I'm using -m 1024... that really helps! lol [12:29] * BUGabundo_work1 booting qemu [12:30] persia, it doesnt work if you have a panel stealing 24px more *and* use compiz [12:31] compiz has a bad habit of making windows "jump" up and down by the amount of missing pixels if you click them [12:31] ogra, Ah, I haven't tested with compiz (no driver). [12:32] it looks like the compiz devs try to be overly clever but mess it up completely [12:32] Which question? The map, or others as well? [12:32] the main win jumps by about 3-5px [12:32] at least with a 48px panel [12:33] For all the questions? (the window should be redrawn for each question). [12:33] it gets worse if you try i.e. xchat's settings window [12:33] it seems to use a min size [12:33] which seems to be more than 552 vertically [12:34] might be 550 [12:34] err [12:34] 555 [12:34] There's nothing hardcoded, it's based on the content. That said, the fix is different if it's some questions vs. every question (including the intro & summary). [12:34] its not that bad in the installer since it are only a few pixels [12:35] really bad are the ones where 50 or 100 px are involved [12:35] since you dont manage to click the buttons [12:35] fta: is there a way to start FF3 in full screen by default (on netbook) ? [12:35] ogra, For which question? [12:35] persia, partitioning definatley [12:35] not sure about the others [12:36] Does it work better if you wipe all the partitions from the target before the install, or does is show for any amount of content? [12:37] i usually do a guided full wipe install [12:37] in that it already jumps [12:38] No, if you wipe it *before* you run the installer, so it starts wiped. [12:38] ah, never tried [12:38] lunch [12:38] Right. I'm trying to understand if it's the content overflowing, and extending the window, or if it's some other element that is pushing it too large. [12:38] i think its the content [12:39] but i think its noticeable in other windows as well ... i.e. the user setup [12:39] but thats only from the top of my head [12:39] OK. I can't replicate (no driver), so I need to rely on you to tell me which bits don't fit, and by how much, and whether it fits if you have reduced content. [12:39] i currently dont have a pre-written usb key handy [12:39] i'll do a test install later [12:40] OK. No big rush, but it ought be fixed, as that affects Desktop as well. [12:40] For MID, it's probably worth writing a hildonised front-end. [12:40] well, you rarely have these biz panels on a desktop [12:40] (which should run at 640x480) [12:40] *big [12:40] agreed [12:41] MID needs a *lot* of UI love [12:41] Well, yeah, but it sounds like the problem is an interaction with compiz. 552 vs. 576 isn't that different. [12:41] its 24 px [12:41] which can be a lot if you have much content :) [12:42] Well, the map ought be able to work at 552. The rest is just a matter of understanding the possible content, and making scrollable areas when it's likely to exceed. [12:42] On the other hand, if the keyboard selection question overflows, there's another class of problem that needs sorting. [12:43] thats only two scroled wins, shouldnt be to hard to resize that [12:44] Shouldn't *need* to be resized, which is the point. If that needs to be resized, there's something deeper wrong. [12:46] Essentially, the container should fill the screen, and the scrollables sit in the container. If they don't fit (they are dynamically sized), then the definition of the window is at fault. Given that the window doesn't contain any hardcoded size, that's a compiz interaction, perhaps with devilspie. [12:47] devilspie doesnt do anything [12:47] It doesn't ask for maximisation? [12:47] it just sends the maximize and undecorate commands [12:48] neither would have that effect [12:48] its compiz [12:48] Right. If the keyboard question doesn't fit, then there's a problem with sending those commands, and expecting the right result. [12:49] devilspie does nothing different from the maximize button in your app decoration, so if there is a WM error it has to be compiz itself [12:50] Right, although there's no guarantee that the maximise button in compiz does the same as an external maximize directive. [12:50] well, its unlikely that it has any influence [12:50] When I say "perhaps with devilspie", it's not that the bug is in devilspie, but that the bug may be especially exposed by devilspie. [12:50] and it works for other apps without getting jumpy [12:51] its really compiz trying to be clever where it shouldnt [12:51] Because devilspie is sending WM events externally, whereas just about everything else is interacting with compiz directly. [12:51] It's entirely a bug in compiz. [12:52] For some questions, there might be something one can do in ubiquity to improve things (like location or paritioner), but for other questions, it's all compiz. [12:53] well, the jumpiness is the breakage here ... [12:53] might even be just a plugin i need to disable [12:54] Well, I'd claim that the maximise directive not causing it to be the desired size, causing some overlap, which causes the jumpiness is the issue, but I'm not disagreeing with you, only being a bit more precise. [12:54] well, the window simply shouldnt jump :) [12:55] Agreed. Shouldn't be oversize either. [12:55] well, if it is you should have the opportunity to move t yourself [12:55] maximise means "make it the size of the desktop space", not "make it a litle more than that". [12:55] but compiz should try to do that for you [12:55] * ian_brasil thinks it is like the whack a rat game at a fair trying to change xchat settings [12:56] heh [12:56] yeah, xchat is specifically evil [12:56] ian_brasil, The trick is to pick the background first and quickly, before it freezes, and only try to do this on a multicore machine :) [12:57] the quick fix is to switch off desktop effects and re-enable them after adjusting ;) [12:57] * persia isn't sure about that reenablement bit, but that ought work. [12:57] Note also that one can hang the system even with desktop effects off from the xchat settings dialog. [12:57] well, indeed if you want frames around popup windows you should re-renable them :) [12:58] Hrm? metacity offers that. [12:58] os[Linux 2.6.27.4-aao-icc i686] distro[Ubuntu "intrepid" 8.10] cpu[2 x Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N270 @ 1.60GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1.60GHz] mem[Physical: 1.0GB/1.5GB free] disk[Total: 19.2GB/27.9GB free] video[Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express Integrated Graphics Controller] sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel] [12:59] persia, devilspie undecorates *all* windows ... if you have popups they have no frame ... compiz makes them drop a shadow so you can distinguish them from the window below [12:59] though if you use metacity i would recommend using maximus instead of devilspie [13:00] the prob is that maximus doesnt work with compiz at all [13:00] Ah. That makes sense. I'm stuck with metacity (see note above about no drivers), but not excited enough to fiddle with things. [13:00] devilspie works with both, but would need less generic setiings [13:37] ogra when I run alt+F2 I can see a frame, and then it disapears! [13:38] yes, thats how its supposed to be [13:38] so this is devilspie at work? [13:38] yep [13:39] another question: [13:40] can I use SuperL to access the Go Home?? [15:27] hey [15:27] anyone around ? [15:27] ido-, lots of people [15:27] oh. great. [15:28] was wondering how to make double-click more responsive [15:28] hi [15:28] I'm back [15:29] ogra can you help me make a fdi for the eeepc shorcut buttons? [15:29] seems that the driver/X is sensitive and detects double clicks only if the exact pixel or so is pressed, which doesnt work well when "double clicking" with a finger, or even the styus [15:36] ido-, I think there's a way to increase the target area for double-click sensitivity in the fdi file. [15:36] ogra, Do you know? [15:38] how do I reload the fdi's on the fly ? [15:38] without restarting [15:38] hal restart doesnt seem to do it.. [15:38] I think you need to restart X, although I may be mistaken. [15:40] hrm. I added key remapping.. should that require restarting X as well ? [15:40] I'm restaring X to find out.. [16:36] back. [16:37] persia, here ? [16:43] Did it work? [16:46] i restarted and it worked [16:46] i had a different question though. [16:46] well, I feel that ubuntu is much slower then my XP.. [16:46] I haven't installed any services [16:46] and mostly its idling. [16:47] Well, there's lots of services installed by default. [16:47] Which operation seems slow? [16:47] however when running firefox and surfing [16:47] other stuff as well actually.. but most noticible is firefox [16:48] Is that page load speed, or something else? [16:48] i have tons of extensions on my windows profile, and it works at an ok speed (its also my desktop profile) [16:48] however on the default settings (no extra extensions whatsoever) on ubuntu, it just runs slow.. [16:49] Right. Is it that page loading is slow, or is it that navigation within a page is slow? [16:49] I think both [16:49] persia: any tips to make the eeepc with umpc boot fasterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ? [16:49] OK. For page loading speed, I might suspect mdns (you could tweak /etc/nsswitch.conf to test this). Not sure about page navigation. [16:50] scrolling speed is slow as well. [16:50] BUGabundo, Run bootchart, and tweak the stuff that runs slow. Profile your boot. Adjust your readahead cache. Compile your own custom kernel. That ought improve most of it. [16:50] ido-, Which video drivers? [16:51] seb123 BANed from running profile on the boot [16:51] he says it's a REALLY bad idea for users to do that! [16:51] hrm. sec [16:51] intel ? [16:52] BUGabundo, Well, it depends. It can certainly break some things. It makes other things faster. It is one of the tools you can use to boot faster, but it may have undesireable side effects. [16:52] ido-, Try turning off the desktop effects. Doesn't work for all intel graphics chips : depends on which (and I don't remember which are which). [16:53] actually desktop effects are pretty snappy hee [16:53] i'm on a Q1u btw. [16:53] s/hee/here [16:54] Sure. Desktop effects are snappy, but it's that XP doesn't do GPU effects, so if you're comparing the speed to XP, you might find that scroll speed is affected by using them. [16:54] On the other hand, Desktop effects are pretty :) [16:55] yes they are. [16:55] how do i disable them ? [16:55] i mean, disable them through gnome ? [16:55] I think it's in System...Preferences...Appearance [16:55] or is it done in the X config ? [16:56] ugh. [16:56] no neat effects and as slow as before [16:57]