[01:36] <catonano> Hello MOTUs
[01:36] <catonano> I'd like to ask a question
[01:36] <catonano> I have an Asus laptop
[01:36] <catonano> I used remastersys to make a live cd out of my sustem
[01:36] <catonano> system
[01:37] <catonano> then, I went to a Dell Vostro 1700 laptop, with the cd
[01:37] <catonano> it worked
[01:37] <catonano> THEN I tried with a cd freshly downloaded from the ubuntu site
[01:38] <catonano> it did NOT work
[01:38] <catonano> Of course both the cds were Intrepid
[01:38] <catonano> how is it possible ?
[01:38] <catonano> I upgraded my system with update manager
[01:38] <catonano> and it worked
[01:38] <catonano> a cd from the site does not
[01:38] <catonano> does this mean that
[01:38] <Flannel> !enter | catonano
[01:39] <Flannel> catonano: Also, support is in #ubuntu
[01:39] <catonano> Oh yeah, sorry
[01:39] <catonano> Does this mean that a system produced by subsequent update AND a system freshly installed are NOT equal ?
[01:40] <doggymenz> dude, i cant find Songbird or PlayOnLinux in the repository!
[01:40] <Hobbsee> doggymenz: that's probably because it's not there.
[01:40] <doggymenz> then put it there
[01:40] <Hobbsee> catonano: well, probably not - you would have installed other packages
[01:40] <Hobbsee> doggymenz: yes sir, anything else sir?
[01:40] <ajmitch> doggymenz: we'll breathlessly await your contribution
[01:41] <doggymenz> Hobbsee, no thats fine for now
[01:41] <doggymenz> ajmitch, i cant make stuff happen
[01:41] <Hobbsee> doggymenz: too bad.  Get to it, if you want it done.
[01:41] <Hobbsee> i prefer ajmitch's response.
[01:41] <doggymenz> :(
[01:42] <doggymenz> if i want package stuff, do i must compile it from source, or i can download binaries, and package them?
[01:43] <Hobbsee> catonano: they should have both worked.  How did it not work?
[01:43] <catonano> Yes, I installed dother packages, indeed. But the failure was in starting X, which is NOT something I messed with - definitevly - it looked like a broken system; like an orrible bug was afflicting it
[01:43] <ajmitch> doggymenz: source
[01:43] <doggymenz> ok
[01:43] <ajmitch> for songbird, the major holdups are trademark issues again, I believe
[01:43] <doggymenz> oh
[01:43] <doggymenz> well, firefox have trademark too!
[01:44] <Hobbsee> doggymenz: and there are agreements on that, about how we can modify their software.
[01:44] <catonano> I started with the fresh live cd and it did boot UNTIL it had to start gdm. There it stopped and remained with a black screen
[01:44] <Hobbsee> catonano: strange.  Which video card?
[01:44] <doggymenz> Hobbsee, why modify it?
[01:45] <Hobbsee> POL has ubuntu packages, on it's download site, too.  No idea on how good they are.
[01:45] <catonano> video card ? I don't remember now, I'm not on the Dell Vostro any more :-(
[01:45] <Hobbsee> doggymenz: to make it fit in better with some of the gnome backends, perhaps?
[01:45] <doggymenz> oh
[01:45] <Hobbsee> catonano: ah, right.  probably not a binary one then.  Strange.
[01:45] <doggymenz> well, i downloaded the binary from songbird website, and it fits perfectly for me
[01:46] <catonano> Anyhow, I mean, if that happened is because The 2 cds were carring  different systems. But is that possible ? How ?
[01:46] <catonano> Ok, sorry, i'm moving to #ubuntu ;-)
[01:46]  * Hobbsee notes that playonlinux could well be violating the GPL, too.
[01:47] <Hobbsee> oh, no, the source is under 'generic'
[01:47] <doggymenz> playonlinux violate gpl?
[01:50] <doggymenz> i cant make package, but if i could, it would be pointless, cuz i can just put stuff in ppa, not repo
[01:51] <Hobbsee> it can get copied from a ppa.
[01:51]  * Hobbsee notes this doesn't look quite as bad as ultramatix, but...
[01:52] <doggymenz> if i upload a .deb to my .ppa, then its a binary, not source, so how can you know i didnt upload a virus?
[01:53] <StevenK> You can't upload .deb's to PPAs
[01:53] <Hobbsee> if you upload a .deb to your ppa, it won't accept it, because i'ts not a source.
[01:53] <doggymenz> oh, what i upload to a ppa?
[01:53] <Hobbsee> it'll throw you a rejected mail.
[01:53] <Hobbsee> a.  source.
[01:53] <doggymenz> oh, what file is a source?
[01:53] <doggymenz> is it like .debs ?
[01:53] <doggymenz> or .sdeb?
[01:53] <doggymenz> or something, idk
[01:54] <nellery> you should read the Launchpad documentation
[01:54] <nellery> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[01:54] <doggymenz> i noticed apt-get has a 'source' option to dl source, but is there no option to dl source, compile it, and install it?
[01:56]  * Hobbsee notes that POL will never get into the repositories, in it's current status.
[01:56] <doggymenz> !lipa
[01:56] <doggymenz> !lpia
[01:56] <doggymenz> what is LPIA? i saw it in FAQ
[01:57] <doggymenz> why is POL not GPL? :(
[01:57]  * Hobbsee notes that classifies as a support question, so should go to #ubuntu
[01:57] <Hobbsee> and it is GPL - they *do* distribute a source - under 'generic' of all things.
[01:57] <gouki> Does anyone know if gpgme was dropped in favor of gpgme11?
[01:57] <nellery> lpia = louisiana private investigator association
[01:58] <gouki> Never mind ... Found my answer.
[01:59] <crimsun> gouki: according to rmadison, yes
[01:59] <doggymenz> i dont understand playonlinux problem
[02:00] <Hobbsee> doggymenz: "the code is crap"
[02:00] <doggymenz> oh
[02:00] <doggymenz> i thought it was ppopular
[02:01] <wgrant> Like Automatix, yes.
[02:01] <Hobbsee> well, it may be popular, and bonus points for the 'smile iwantseethesmile' apparently useless file...
[02:01] <Hobbsee> shiny icons, though
[02:01] <gouki> crimsun, thank you.
[02:02] <wgrant> I like install.py:295-312
[02:03] <ajmitch> wgrant: that does look quite good
[02:03] <wgrant> Oh dear god.
[02:03] <wgrant> Who cares about env variables?
[02:03] <wgrant> menu.py:41
[02:03] <Hobbsee> wgrant: yeah, that's what I started with, when reading it...
[02:04] <wgrant> I think menu.py:41 wins.
[02:04] <StevenK> Pastebin!
[02:04] <Hobbsee> oh, shit!
[02:04] <wgrant> playonlinux_env = os.popen("printf $PLAYONLINUX", "r").read() #Recuperer le repertoire de PlayOnLinux
[02:05] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I know it's bad, but surely?
[02:05] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: what's bad is that i just hit "run in terminal" rather than "open in text editor"
[02:05] <ajmitch> oh dear
[02:05] <wgrant> Hahah.
[02:05] <Hobbsee> however, i think it's badly enough crafted that it would have just fallen over without actually starting
[02:05]  * ajmitch disinfects Hobbsee's system
[02:05] <StevenK> Oh, get stuffed. The author needs to learn how environment variables works.
[02:06] <Hobbsee> oh good.  it didn't do anything, as i didn't specify the 8+ arguments it's required to run with
[02:07] <StevenK> Haha
[02:08] <wgrant> I like http://pastebin.ca/1249993
[02:08] <gouki> Where can I see manual sections? RainCT told me games are 6, but that was about it.
[02:08] <wgrant> Duplication and confusement.
[02:08] <jmarsden> gouki: man man
[02:08] <gouki> jmarsden, d'ohh! thank you.
[02:09]  * Hobbsee has another piece of excellent code here, too!
[02:09] <jmarsden> gouki: np
[02:09] <Hobbsee> import lib.Variables as Variables
[02:09] <Hobbsee> ...
[02:09] <Hobbsee> class Variables:      #classe qui va contenir les différentes variables (pas de variables globales)
[02:09] <StevenK> Haha
[02:09] <ajmitch> interesting
[02:09] <StevenK> wgrant: O.o
[02:09] <Hobbsee> There are 3 lines of code between those two lines.
[02:09] <lifeless> lease
[02:09]  * ajmitch will need to make notes of what to do in future python projects
[02:09] <lifeless> I'm blind now. stop stop stop
[02:10] <lifeless> or better yet, for python support -> #python :>
[02:10] <StevenK> Haha
[02:10] <Hobbsee> also, said Variables class deals with the arguments given with the program.
[02:10] <StevenK> lifeless: That's mean :-P
[02:10] <wgrant> class Variables has no real members or methods, but it does have a nice argv parser in its body, which populates it.
[02:11] <Hobbsee> which also includes mroe references to environment variables
[02:11]  * StevenK sobs
[02:11] <wgrant> ... via popen.
[02:11] <StevenK> Because os.env is for chumps
[02:11] <wgrant> Guys, we've got to get this into the archive *now*.
[02:11] <wgrant> Backport to all releases!
[02:11]  * ajmitch uploads
[02:11] <wgrant> Wake the archive admins!
[02:11] <jdong> ack you guys should stop sarcastically pinging me :P
[02:11]  * StevenK hides
[02:12] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[02:12] <ajmitch> wgrant: I think we should just copy the binary package they've provided into the archive
[02:12] <Hobbsee> wgrant: you forgot "install by default"
[02:12] <wgrant> ajmitch: Does it have stuff in it that proves it was constructed manually, like Automatix's?
[02:13] <Hobbsee> !
[02:13] <Hobbsee> it's not just this one file, either!
[02:13] <StevenK> What did Automatix's .deb have in it?
[02:13] <wgrant> StevenK: I don't remember, but the one I looked at was clearly manually constructed with ar.
[02:13] <ajmitch> wgrant: well, it has a debhelper postinst/rm, but it also has a rather non-standard changelog
[02:13] <wgrant> Or maybe it was Ultamatix...
[02:13] <Hobbsee> where the postrm is rm -rf /?
[02:14] <jdong> Hobbsee: clearly the system is useless once the tool is removed.
[02:14] <lifeless> wgrant: it doesn't help that the debian docs start out with 'a deb is an ar archive' somewhere
[02:14] <wgrant> Essential: yes
[02:14] <wgrant> lifeless: So they do.
[02:14] <lifeless> developers can get the wrong idea:P
[02:14] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: postrm is just the update-menus stuff
[02:14] <StevenK> ajmitch: Disappointing
[02:15] <gouki> Is there a GPG keyring for Ubuntu Members? I mean all keys grouped? I believe I saw this for Debian, but can't recall.
[02:15] <ajmitch> StevenK: it only has a .desktop file
[02:15] <Hobbsee> gouki: there probably is on LP somewhere.
[02:15] <wgrant> Hobbsee, gouki: There isn't.
[02:16] <jdong> wgrant: pfft never say never. This sounds like a job for popen('wget | awk | sed|  grep| ....')...!
[02:16] <gouki> wgrant, ok.
[02:16]  * StevenK kills jdong 
[02:17] <wgrant> Out of the 5 files I've looked at, three of them import lib.Variables as Variables only to redefine it as that same dodgy class.
[02:17] <StevenK> Haha
[02:19] <Hobbsee> right.  so that's clearly why those two aren't in the archives.
[02:19] <wgrant> Oh.
[02:19] <wgrant> Python with tabs.
[02:19] <wgrant> Ew.
[02:19] <wgrant> Ew.
[02:19] <wgrant> Ew.
[02:20] <StevenK> wgrant?
[02:20] <Hobbsee> i think mjg59 should do a full synopsis of the fail in that program, and post it to planet :P
[02:21] <StevenK> What a brilliant idea
[02:21] <wgrant> StevenK: You don't dislike Python indented with tabs?
[02:22] <StevenK> wgrant: I'm not fond of it, but I can deal
[02:22] <StevenK> And I'll only use it if the script is a write-once throw-away thing
[02:22] <wgrant> Erm.
[02:22] <wgrant> I don't like the look of this.
[02:23] <wgrant> It looks like some kind of home-grown IPC.
[02:23]  * Hobbsee purges that hellish looking thing from her system
[02:23] <StevenK> Does it use os.popen?
[02:23] <wgrant> No, it defines a function called SendBash which writes the given string to a file, followed by 'MsgOut'
[02:24] <wgrant> I daren't trace what else uses that file.
[02:24] <ajmitch> how creative
[02:24] <StevenK> Hmmm
[02:24] <ajmitch> so, is there anything that'd keep it out of the archive? :)
[02:25] <DBO> is there a potential timeframe for mono 2.0 making it into jaunty?
[02:25] <lifeless> why are you wasting your time ? clearly that code is insane
[02:26] <jdong> lifeless: oh clearly you haven't dealt with the crack-community backlash when you don't thoroughly dissect these things to death
[02:26] <Hobbsee> doggymenz: i think you'll need to provide lots of beer now.
[02:26] <ScottK> Well PEP-8 prefers spaces but (IIRC) says don't bother converting tabs to spaces if the entire file is tabbed.
[02:26] <Hobbsee> doggymenz: so people can avoid the abomination of that codebase.
[02:26] <ScottK> So I don't think tabs in Python is a complete abomination.
[02:27]  * DBO waves at Hobbsee 
[02:27] <Hobbsee> heya DBO
[02:27] <DBO> Hobbsee, you have any idea who is in charge of mono packaging for ubuntu?
[02:27] <ajmitch> directhex has been doing most of that lately with the debian mono team
[02:28] <Hobbsee> DBO: directhex
[02:28] <jdong> oh yeah. acpitool -B doesn't work on this proprietary Mach-like OS.
[02:28] <Hobbsee> DBO: i think it's planned, but don't know any more specific
[02:28] <DBO> one more question then
[02:29] <ajmitch> it'll cost you
[02:29] <DBO> My employer (and thus me) is in desparate need of a distro with mono 2.0.  I am trying to keep us firmly in Ubuntu land largely because I like debian distros.  I can't seem to find out if paid support through canonical would entitle us to something like decent mono packages
[02:29] <DBO> ajmitch, no worries, I am prepared to pay if the result is good =)
[02:30] <wgrant> I think we're planning to grab things from experimental soon.
[02:30] <ajmitch> what is different between what's in intrepid & 2.0?
[02:30] <DBO> ajmitch, lots of tiny things we use in the windows forms area
[02:30] <ScottK> DBO: If you want specific packages prepared you'd have to pay for that.  The Canonical support contracts are for support of the distro as released (As I understand it).
[02:30] <DBO> and a lot of work on ASP
[02:30] <ajmitch> for canonical support questions, you'd really need to talk to canonical
[02:31] <DBO> ScottK, thats kind of what I had been gathering but I was having trouble finding a direct affirmative one way or the other so I figured I could just ask you guys
[02:31] <ScottK> DBO: My advice would do to hire someone who knows mono packaging as a consultant to make the package updates for you.
[02:31] <ScottK> I don't think anyone on this channel is likely to be able to give you an authoritative answer.
[02:31] <DBO> ScottK, while I can get support, I work for a university... so things like hiring additional *people* are a lot more complicated =P
[02:31] <ScottK> Sure.  Write a 'support mono' contract.
[02:32] <DBO> haha
[02:32]  * ScottK didn't actually mean hire as an employee, but contract someone to provide.
[02:32] <DBO> ah
[02:32] <ajmitch> though you'd probably end up doing it in-house anyway
[02:33] <DBO> pretty much
[02:33]  * ScottK knows about zip about mono packaging so is not trolling for business.
[02:33] <Hobbsee> DBO: ask mneptok
[02:33] <DBO> I was mostly just curious because we are going to be buying a support contract from someone
[02:33] <Hobbsee> (about canonical support and such)
[02:33]  * NCommander lives
[02:34] <ajmitch> NCommander: we can remedy that
[02:34] <DBO> Hobbsee, thanks, I will hunt him down... though the last time I talked to him it was at a Carls Jr. and the man clearly suffered from dementia =O
[02:34] <wgrant> ajmitch: Fetch the comfy POL!
[02:34] <ajmitch> mneptok? never!
[02:34]  * NCommander dies
[02:34] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:35] <ajmitch> mneptok is as sane as Hobbsee :)
[02:35] <Hobbsee> NCommander: you missed out on enjoying the code above...
[02:35]  * jmarsden resurrects NCommander so he can enjoy all that wonderful Python code :-)
[02:36] <NCommander> I've seen dak's internals
[02:36] <wgrant> This is worse than dak.
[02:36] <NCommander> bad python code does not scare me
[02:37] <jdong> NCommander: I should get you some of this stuff I've seen from an intro to python class :)
[02:37] <wgrant> NCommander: Does dak boycott os.environ?
[02:37] <NCommander> probably
[02:37] <jdong> most interesting is when you plot student submission # of lines - reference implementation # of lines
[02:37] <wgrant> jdong: My uni now does Python as a first language.
[02:37] <jdong> once that delta was up in the 400's
[02:37] <wgrant> jdong: There are some absolute horrors.
[02:37] <jdong> the solution was quite shocking
[02:37] <wgrant> Hah.
[02:37] <lifeless> wgrant: so we blame them for the code reviewed above?
[02:37] <ScottK> Back when I was at University and Pascal was all the rage I had a job for one semester grading Intro to Pascal projects.
[02:38] <wgrant> lifeless: Yes!
[02:38] <ScottK> It was fun in a mean kind of way.
[02:38] <jdong> wgrant: ah, here at MIT they're switching to Python as the primary language too
[02:38] <ajmitch> lifeless: don't worry, otago uni has switched as well
[02:38] <ScottK> We had a list of what we could mark off for.
[02:38] <ScottK> Sometimes I managed to give negative grades.
[02:38] <doggymenz> i thought all university used java
[02:38] <wgrant> ScottK: Hahah.
[02:38] <lifeless> ajmitch: to snake?
[02:38] <doggymenz> what is best language? C, Java, C#, Python, Ruby?
[02:38] <wgrant> doggymenz: Unimelb has been C for a couple of decades, with Java for OO.
[02:38] <wgrant> Python!
[02:39] <lifeless> doggymenz: depends on what you are doing
[02:39] <ajmitch> lifeless: I've heard that python has replaced java for at least the first year
[02:39] <jdong> doggymenz: gonna be hard to get any agreement on that :)
[02:39] <doggymenz> hehe
[02:39] <jdong> it's like asking for the best OS, shell, editor, etc :)
[02:39] <doggymenz> i think python is a bit tricky
[02:39] <wgrant> doggymenz: Visual Basic.
[02:39] <lifeless> ajmitch: when I was there it was pascal first year cs; ada and others second year
[02:39] <wgrant> Ada... really?
[02:39] <lifeless> doggymenz: no really, it *depends* on what you are doing
[02:39] <doggymenz> wgrant, yeah, i actually like VB, i can do stuff in VB in minutes, that takes weeks in C
[02:39] <DBO> my uni starts with C# and then has all following classes done in C.  Which means every single simple program has horrible memory leaks since nobody taught them about free ()
[02:39] <wgrant> C and VB are not comparable. At all.
[02:40] <doggymenz> oh
[02:40] <lifeless> wgrant: sure they are. Like a watch engraver and a landscape developer
[02:40] <doggymenz> C# looks pretty cool, but im afraid of it, cuz its Microsoft
[02:40] <ScottK> My favorite Java versus Python comment was my wife's.  She took a class that used Java first.  Then on that used Python.  On her first Python project she was having trouble figuring out how to do all the stuff she "knew" she had to do.
[02:40] <ScottK> It turned out she wasn't missing anything.  Python was just so much simpler to get started with.
[02:40] <wgrant> Heh.
[02:40] <doggymenz> ScottK, you saying that Python is easier than Java?
[02:41] <doggymenz> oh, okie
[02:41] <doggymenz> cool
[02:41] <wgrant> Undoubtedly.
[02:41] <doggymenz> i like simple
[02:41] <ScottK> That was her experience.  I've never done Java.
[02:41] <doggymenz> oh
[02:41] <ScottK> I'd believe wgrant though.
[02:41] <wgrant> Java is C# done wrong.
[02:41] <doggymenz> but if i want to make a photoshop killer, then Python is bad idea?
[02:41] <doggymenz> C# is Java done right?
[02:42] <ScottK> Well one nice thing about Python is you can work in Python and then after you have a working system, convert performance sensitive areas to C.
[02:42] <ScottK> It's designed for that, so there's no need to do premature opitimization.
[02:42] <wgrant> ScottK: It's particularly nice with things like Cython and Pyrex.
[02:45] <lifeless> well
[02:46] <lifeless>  -> #languagewars perhaps
[06:08] <iulian> G'morning.
[06:08] <ScottK> StevenK: If you have a moment, I'd appreciate it if you would accept the kdenetwork package that just hit intrepid-backports.
[06:09]  * ScottK wonders off to collapse for 4 1/2 hours until he has to be getting children off to school.
[06:14] <effie_jayx> is there a way to use a much recent version of lintian in ubuntu?
[06:15] <dmoerner> effie_jayx, 2.0.0 is in hardy-backports, intrepid-backports, and jaunty
[06:15] <jdong> effie_jayx: the backports repository {has, will soon have} 2.0
[06:16] <effie_jayx> ok
[06:16] <dmoerner> rmadison reveals that in fact, has
[06:16] <effie_jayx> I will enable the backports for intrepid then
[06:23] <\sh> moins
[06:51] <iulian> wgrant: Hey, can I steal the roundup merge from you?
[06:54] <wgrant> iulian: Go ahead.
[06:54] <iulian> Thanks.
[07:30] <dholbach> good morning
[07:34] <iulian> Hey dholbach!
[07:34] <dholbach> hi iulian
[07:45] <effie_jayx> good morning all
[07:47] <cody-somerville> dholbach, re: dput, I e-mailed the Debian maintainer.
[07:48] <dholbach> cody-somerville: it'd be nice if you'd file a debian bug and we could link it to the ubuntu bug
[07:48] <cody-somerville> dholbach, sure.
[07:49] <dholbach> ROCK
[07:58] <cody-somerville> I think thats the first time I've ever reported a bug in debian
[08:01] <NCommander> O___O;
[08:01] <NCommander> uh ...
[08:02] <NCommander> cody-somerville, well, better late than never ;-)
[08:02]  * StevenK looks up his first bug
[08:02] <StevenK> 25 July 2001, #106519
[08:02]  * NCommander won't be able to find his first bug
[08:02] <NCommander> on Debian
[08:02] <StevenK> Why not?
[08:03] <NCommander> I don't remember the email I used in '01
[08:03] <StevenK> Heh, that'd do it
[08:03] <NCommander> Meh, sparc is still a builder down
[08:04] <NCommander> who's archive day is it?
[08:05] <jmarsden> Are PPAs accepting jaunty builds yet?
[08:06] <NCommander> Uhh
[08:06] <NCommander> nope
[08:06] <RAOF> Looks like it's time to do that Miro SRU :(
[08:08] <RAOF> Turns out miro.desktop migrated from miro-data to the main miro package from Hardy to Intrepid, so that's breaking upgrades.  Which, apparently, nobody checked during the actual development cycle.
[08:08] <StevenK> Woot
[08:08] <RAOF> Indeed.
[08:08] <NCommander> RAOF, bleck
[08:09] <NCommander> RAOF, so what's the fix, move desktop back to miro from miro-data?
[08:09] <StevenK> NCommander: slangasek is Monday
[08:09]  * NCommander nods
[08:09] <StevenK> NCommander: But archive admins can't fix sejong
[08:10] <NCommander> sejong?
[08:10] <RAOF> NCommander: Nah, throw a versioned Conflicts at it; miro.desktop is in the main package in Debian, and it makes as much sense to have it there as in -data.
[08:10] <wgrant> It probably needs a sysad/DC engineer + a buildd admin.
[08:10] <RAOF> While I'm at it I'll push the "unbreak youtube" fix in there too.
[08:10] <NCommander> StevenK, actually, I was just wondering on how long I had to wait on the debhelper backport to go through so I could run the rest of the queue
[08:20] <\sh> RAOF: unbreak youtube? ,-)
[08:23] <RAOF> \sh: Unbreak the youtube integration, at least :P
[08:24] <\sh> RAOF: hmm...youtube integration is a must ,-)
[08:24]  * \sh wants youtube integration in evolution 
[08:24] <wgrant> \sh: .. why?
[08:25] <\sh> wgrant: so I can watch videos inside evolution while deleting spam :)
[08:25] <wgrant> Hah.
[08:25] <StevenK> Oh, excellent.
[08:25] <StevenK> Then spam can rickroll you.
[08:25] <wgrant> StevenK: Precisely my fear.
[08:25] <StevenK> wgrant: *5*
[08:25] <wgrant> Hm?
[08:25] <StevenK> *5* == High five
[08:25] <\sh> or depeding on the content of the spam, the youtube integration tries to find videos tagged with words of the spam...
[08:26] <wgrant> Ah.
[08:26] <wgrant> \sh: That could be more than mildly unpleasant!
[08:26] <\sh> wgrant: well...it would find always blue videos with viagra tag..yeah...stupid idea
[08:27] <laga> there are v14gra tags?
[08:28] <\sh> laga: looks like
[08:30]  * StevenK notes the Exp button on his calculator doesn't do what he thought
[08:30] <cody-somerville> Am I suppose to get an e-mail back after I submit a bug report to debian?
[08:30] <wgrant> StevenK: What did you expect?
[08:32] <StevenK> wgrant: I'm working from a solution that gives 4exp(-11.75) = 3.1 * 10^-5
[08:34] <StevenK> wgrant: Being noobish, and putting 4exp(-11.75) into my calculator gives -47
[08:34] <StevenK> cody-somerville: Yes
[08:36] <NCommander> cody-somerville, it usually takes a few minutes
[08:37] <cody-somerville> Its been 38 minutes :P
[08:37] <cody-somerville> This is what I sent: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/69917/
[08:37] <NCommander> you did send the bug to submit@bugs.debian.org, right?
[08:38] <cody-somerville> NCommander, does the pastebin say otherwise?
[08:39] <StevenK> Perhaps the Subject line in the body confused it
[08:40]  * cody-somerville tries again.
[08:41]  * NCommander usually just uses reportbug :-/
[08:41] <slytherin> any archive admins around for a manual sync?
[08:41] <geser> good morning *
[08:41] <cody-somerville> I used that to generate it
[08:42] <slytherin> geser: good morning. :-)
[08:42] <NCommander> morning geser
[08:43] <slytherin> geser: in case you didn't check already, I files sync request for freeguide.
[08:49] <effie_jayx> how can I test a watchfile
[08:49] <effie_jayx> ?
[08:49] <wgrant> effie_jayx: Tried 'uscan --verbose'?
[08:50] <wgrant> Oh.
[08:50] <wgrant> --report, actually.
[08:50] <wgrant> Haven't used it manually in a while.
[08:50] <effie_jayx> wgrant, should I try that with the .dsc file or the .deb
[08:50] <wgrant> effie_jayx: Inside the extracted source package.
[08:50] <effie_jayx> ok
[08:51] <effie_jayx> wgrant,  worked thanks
[08:52] <effie_jayx> however, the numbering of the sourcefiles is wrong
[08:52] <effie_jayx> http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/kipina/
[08:54] <effie_jayx> uscan tells me  kipina-0.03.tar.gz is newer than kipina-0.2.2.tar.gz, and that is not so... kipina-0.03.tar.gz should be  kipina-0.0.3.tar.gz
[08:55] <effie_jayx> anyhow ... watchfile is working, I shall report upstream...
[08:55] <emgent> good morning
[08:56] <slytherin> effie_jayx: what is expression in watch file?
[08:57] <effie_jayx>  http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/kipina/kipina-([^-]*)\.tar.gz
[09:00] <effie_jayx> slytherin,  I think it is the filename not having the . and uname makes sense  03 = 3 therefore... 0.03 = 0.3
[09:01] <effie_jayx> and therefore is newer than 0.2.2
[09:01] <effie_jayx> the filename should be 0.0.3
[09:01] <slytherin> effie_jayx: I don't know why uscan would make that conversion.
[09:18] <cody-somerville> dholbach, Okay. Linked the bug.
[09:20] <huats> good morning
[10:12] <cody-somerville> dholbach, Okay, attached debdiff to debian bug
[10:13] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: oh, why are you attached to the dput merge, btw?
[10:13] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, what do you mean?
[10:14] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: i saw your name on it on dad.
[10:14] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, because I merged it (and made several feature and bug enhancements) and am waiting for sponsorship
[10:15] <cody-somerville> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/dput/+bug/295613
[10:15] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: oh, did you?  Right.
[10:16] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, yup. I added sftp transport support and host arguments.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: i thought you might have at least poked me about it.  I hadn't realised all main merges were explicitly up for grabs as well.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: send it to debian please.
[10:16] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, I did.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> did they put it into bzr?
[10:16] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, I haven't heard from the maintainer yet.
[10:16]  * StevenK wonders if he still has any code in dput
[10:16] <Hobbsee> sorry, svn.
[10:18] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, the merge was extraordinarily simple (it wasn't actually worth merging but I figured I'd keep the delta low) otherwise I would have poked you.
[10:19] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: the debian guys are quite happy to put stuff in SVN, and sync as much as possible.  This is what I learned when I last modified it, and didn't send my changes, and this is exactly the sort of reason why it's recommended to check with the previous uploader - not because you aren't sure you got it right
[10:20] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, And I'm certainly hoping they'll take these changes as well :)
[10:20] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: they likely will - they're usually pretty quick too.
[10:20] <StevenK> cody-somerville: Did the bug report actually show up?
[10:20] <cody-somerville> StevenK, aye
[10:20] <StevenK> cody-somerville: Just took a while?
[10:21] <cody-somerville> StevenK, gmail is slow
[10:21] <cody-somerville> StevenK, I actually duplicated the bug. How can I fix that?
[10:21] <StevenK> merge them
[10:22] <StevenK> cody-somerville: bts merge <x> <y>
[10:22] <cody-somerville> StevenK, do I e-mail that to the first bug?
[10:23] <StevenK> cody-somerville: Right, do this:
[10:23] <StevenK> cody-somerville: To: control@bugs.debian.org
[10:23] <StevenK> Subject: Whatever
[10:24] <StevenK> Body:
[10:24] <StevenK> merge <x> <y>
[10:24] <StevenK> kthxbye
[10:25] <cody-somerville> guh
[10:25] <StevenK> Hm?
[10:25]  * slytherin is thrilled with prospect of LG3D entering into Debian/Ubuntu
[10:32] <handschuh> Hi. I need a folder to be 777 but lintian prints a waring if this folder in included in the package.
[10:33] <wgrant> You don't need a folder to be 777.
[10:33] <handschuh> otherwise I would have to create empty files in this folder with 777
[10:39] <handschuh> Or 666 is also sufficient but this causes a lintian waring, too
[10:39] <StevenK> 666 on a directory is pointless
[10:39] <StevenK> You need execute to chdir() into it
[10:40] <handschuh> where?
[10:40] <handschuh> a - ok, so 777 is needed ?!
[10:40] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% mkdir testdir
[10:40] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% chmod a-x testdir
[10:40] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% cd testdir
[10:40] <StevenK> cd: permission denied: testdir
[10:41] <StevenK> handschuh: ^
[10:42] <handschuh> so how do I add a system wide writable directory to a package without getting a warinig vom lintian?
[10:43] <StevenK> You don't
[10:43] <StevenK> It's a bad idea
[10:43] <wgrant> That's what I would have thought.
[10:43] <handschuh> I have data that changes frequently and should be changed by any user
[10:44] <StevenK> Then why is a package creating the directory?
[10:45] <handschuh> because I don't know where to create else
[10:45] <handschuh> creating it through the program wont work
[10:47] <handschuh> any ideas?
[10:52] <handschuh> well ... is there a gnome/kde independent gksu ?
[11:00] <handschuh> ok I let a script determain which desktop is installed
[11:55] <effie_jayx> if a package does not have a patch system defined and the package uses debhelper as structure, what patch system should I use?
[11:57] <slytherin> effie_jayx: any patch system you see fit. debhelper does not have any patch system like cdbs.
[11:57] <effie_jayx> slytherin,  so I could use simple-patchsys I guess...
[11:58] <slytherin> effie_jayx: that is if you are using cdbs
[11:58] <effie_jayx> ok, that's what I wanted to know. I am going quilt then
[11:58] <slytherin> effie_jayx: how bug is the patch?
[11:59] <effie_jayx> big?
[11:59] <slytherin> yes, bug
[11:59] <slytherin> big
[11:59] <ogra> heh
[11:59] <effie_jayx> there are 5 or 6 changes in several files, so I guess I need a patch for each
[12:00] <effie_jayx> slytherin,  does that make sense?
[12:00] <Laney> Group changes for the same issue into the same patch
[12:00] <slytherin> ﻿﻿effie_jayx: if the package comes from Debian then it is usually advised not to introduce a patch system. Apart from that you don't need patch for each file.
[12:00] <slytherin> all teh changes should go into same patch
[12:02] <effie_jayx> slytherin,  ok, so I guess all changes I am making must be made in debian then
[12:02] <effie_jayx> I fixed a bug but I was suggested to use a patch insted of a fix that is intrusive in upstreams code
[12:03] <effie_jayx> but the package is not in debian
[12:03] <effie_jayx> it is an upgrade I did
[12:03] <slytherin> effie_jayx: Then you are free to make your decision
[12:03] <geser> effie_jayx: which package is it?
[12:04] <slytherin> effie_jayx: When I say package not in Debian, I mean "no version of package is in Debian"
[12:04] <effie_jayx> slytherin,  I see
[12:04] <effie_jayx> geser, kipina
[12:05] <slytherin> effie_jayx: It's like this, you never know what patch system the Debian maintainer would like to use. So it is better to not introduce your own patch system.
[12:06] <geser> kipina is in Debian, but an older version
[12:06] <geser> and is it orphaned
[12:06] <effie_jayx> in the mean time. if I want to fix something, I do it directly to the source code then... the package is orphan in debian and there is very little upstream activity
[12:07] <bmm> Do I need a dch -i instead of a dch -e when I want to put a new revision on REVU? (or maybe an ubuntu1 to ubuntu2?)
[12:07] <slytherin> bmm: No. Don't change version when re-uploading to revu. Just use 'dput -f file.changes'
[12:08] <bmm> slytherin: ok, then I'm just being impatient ;) Thanks!
[12:12] <effie_jayx> slytherin, so, I should make the change that fixes the bug only and let the overall package work be done by the debian maintainer?
[12:19] <geser> effie_jayx: on principle yes, but there is currently no DM for kipina
[12:20] <effie_jayx> geser,  that is exactly my question
[12:20] <geser> effie_jayx: as you seem to be interested in kipina, have you thought about adopting the Debian package?
[12:20] <effie_jayx> geser,  I have, but I am uneasy abut the nm process and so on..
[12:21] <geser> you don't need to be a DD to maintain a package in Debian, they have also sponsoring for this
[12:21] <effie_jayx> ahh ok
[12:21] <effie_jayx> I might try that then
[12:22] <effie_jayx> I will go ahead and fix the bug in ubuntu
[12:23] <bmm> Can build-depends contain virtual packages? (libexpat-dev instead of libexpat1-dev ?)
[12:24] <Hobbsee> bmm: "virtual" packages?
[12:24] <Hobbsee> !info libexpat-dev
[12:24] <bmm> Hobbsee: libexpat-dev is provided by libexpat1-dev but not really a package.
[12:25] <Hobbsee> oh, i see.
[12:25] <Hobbsee> usually, no - because multiple things can provide it, iirc, and it won't know which one to pick
[12:25] <broonie> You can do real | virtual, though.
[12:25] <Hobbsee> that's true
[12:26] <bmm> Ah, that sound spiffy :) I'll do that
[12:26] <StevenK> No, because what it may pick is non-deterministic
[12:26] <bmm> Oh well, libexpat1-dev it then shall be
[12:40] <quadrispro> hi, can someone check this? bug 261145
[13:22] <porthose> good mourning
[13:40] <bmm> I get the feeling that either my uploads are going wrong, or I need to up the package version or REVU to actually see my upload. I'm currently at -0ubuntu1 should I make that -0ubuntu2 for a new revision? (currently I'm using the old version number and dput -f revu metalink_0.3.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes)
[13:42] <ScottK> bmm: You don't need to change the revision, so whatever your problem is, that's not it.
[13:44] <bmm> ScottK: hmm... then I'm a bit stupified at the moment... Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong then? I did a debuild -S -sd for this but tried a debuild -S -sa earlier and that didn't work either... any thoughts on any of this??
[13:45] <bmm> Ooh.. wait.. just got a mail about the new upload :D
[13:45]  * ScottK waits.
[13:45] <bmm> ScottK: thanks, it came through :D
[13:47]  * bmm is not sure what is going on, but still enjoying the experience
[13:51] <RainCT> bmm: new uploads should appear every 3 minutes (but may take a bit more if there is lots of stuff to be processed)
[13:52] <bmm> RainCT: ah, that's good to know. Why the upload from this morning failed is still a mystery to me, but it is working now :)
[13:53] <RainCT> bmm: there's a metalink upload which was rejected
[13:54] <RainCT> uhm.. and the .diff.gz for it seems to be missing
[13:54] <bmm> RainCT: ah, that explains it. Where can you see that?
[13:55] <RainCT> bmm: ssh'ing into the machine where REVU is hosted ;P
[13:56] <bmm> RainCT: hehe... I'll leave that to somebody who knows something more about that. How the .diff.gz went missing... can't explain it. But whoever it was, it was probably me :P
[13:58] <RainCT> bmm: (only REVU admins can check do this. there's a list of all on the wiki and if you've a problem you can ping any of us)
[13:59] <bmm> RainCT: thanks!
[14:00] <bmm> I have to go, but with the upload succeeded you can all count on me coming back for comments another day ;) Cya all!
[14:00] <joaopinto> RainCT, arent't failed uploads messages sent to uploaders ?
[14:09] <RainCT> joaopinto: not yes, but it's planned for "some day" :P
[14:10] <RainCT> joaopinto: and your request (about having a "Your uploads" section in index.py) is planned for "the near future" ;)
[14:10] <joaopinto> well, if the plan is to use import from ppa, it will not be needed on the future :)
[14:11] <RainCT> joaopinto: direct uploads will remain as an option (at least for some people)
[14:12] <joaopinto> what's the benefit of keeping them ?
[14:12] <slytherin> RainCT: Are you already working on tagging system for revu?
[14:13] <RainCT> joaopinto: that you don't have to upload to PPA :P (and that the code for it is already there anyway)
[14:13] <RainCT> slytherin: not yet
[14:14] <joaopinto> RainCT, that's is more code that you need to maintain :P
[14:14] <slytherin> RainCT: Ok. But I am looking forward to it. :-)
[14:14] <RainCT> joaopinto: not much, really. like 90% of the code is shared with the PPA importer
[14:15] <NCommander> RainCT, what are you doing to my PPA code now?!
[14:15] <RainCT> NCommander: nothing
[14:16] <RainCT> NCommander: btw, will you look up the code to check if the package has build correctly?
[14:16] <NCommander> I don't have it
[14:17] <RainCT> NCommander: OK. Do you remember how you did it?
[14:17] <NCommander> The code worked by checking the Packages file for the files listed in the Binary section of the Sources
[14:18] <RainCT> NCommander: ah, that's listed in the Packages file? it should be fairly trivial to implement then
[14:18] <NCommander> It was like ten lines of code
[14:19] <NCommander> Second note RainCT, your sources for APT should actually at least alias to jaunty :-P
[14:20] <RainCT> NCommander: Yep, I've to change the distribution name in the config file
[14:20] <RainCT> actually, it's done now
[14:23] <NCommander> RainCT, what is?
[14:26] <RainCT> NCommander: source repo for jaunty
[14:26] <RainCT> gonna go, cya
[14:27] <NCommander> Cya RainCT
[15:20] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:34] <geser> Hi bddebian
[15:35] <bddebian> Heya geser
[15:38] <ara_> hello people!
[15:38] <ara_>  I remember you that today is an Ubuntu Testing Day!
[15:38] <ara_>  details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20081110
[15:39] <mok0> Fast in, fast out. Just like that
[15:41] <ScottK> mok0: Is that a comment about kssh?
[15:41] <ScottK> Sorry, but it didn't work anymore.
[15:42] <mok0> ScottK: heh, no, about ara_'s transient passage through the channel
[15:42] <ScottK> OK.
[15:42] <mok0> ScottK: kssh should go away now that we have kde4.1
[15:43] <ScottK> mok0: It's gone.  Removed from Jaunty today.
[15:43] <mok0> ScottK: ... and it seems not to be maintainer
[15:43] <mok0> ScottK: good
[15:43] <ScottK> Yep.
[15:43] <mok0> ScottK: It was my first package, though, so it's kinda sentimental :-)
[15:43] <ScottK> You should come help us make KDE 4.2 even better for Jaunty ...
[15:43] <mok0> ScottK: How can I help?
[15:43] <ScottK> mok0: I remember.  That's why I've been looking for you to mention it.
[15:44] <ScottK> mok0: Join #kubuntu-devel and we can discuss.
[15:44] <mok0> ScottK: ok
[16:14] <iulian> mok0: Thanks for uploading gkrellm.
[16:15] <mok0> iulian: you're welcome
[16:15] <mok0> iulian: I will look at some of the other items in the list also
[16:16] <iulian> Awesome.
[16:16] <mok0> iulian: You've been a busy little bee :-)
[16:17] <iulian> Heh
[16:25] <x1250> hey guys, I'm trying to compile latest inkscape svn, but I'm getting this error:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/70051/     || In intrepid I had no problems, and this happens since I upgraded to jaunty. Any fix for this?
[16:26] <zul> yes dont run jaunty
[16:26] <sebner> and don't use svn stuff
[16:27] <x1250> maybe next time :P
[16:40] <geser> zul: Hi, have you had time to look at the debdiff on bug 286450?
[16:43] <geser> zul: and can xen-3.1 be removed from the archive (current seems to be xen-3.3) or is it still used for something?
[16:44] <zul> geser: not yet, i just got free from a bunch of time but I will look at it this afternoon
[16:44] <geser> zul: no problem (note: that debdiff is still for intrepid, I didn't update it yet for jaunty)
[16:45] <zul> geser: ill do that myself
[16:45] <zul> and yes xen-3.1 can be removed
[16:57] <RainCT> re
[16:58] <iulian> 'ey RainCT
[17:09] <mneptok> DBO: Canonical supports only packages that are included in the distro, and only packages in Main
[17:11] <DBO> mneptok, aw shame shame for us
[17:11] <DBO> im on the clock rolling updated mono packages right now
[17:12] <DBO> 100 thinkpads + 200 workstations... god I pray I dont screw this up =P
[17:24] <eMerzh> Hi all, if someone could review SQLiteman, my just corrected package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman) previously reviewed by RainCT, I'll be very happy :D
[17:34] <ddfire> hi
[17:35] <ddfire>  i need help making a deb package
[17:35] <ddfire> or backporting asterisk 1.4.21 from 8.10 to 8.04
[17:35] <ddfire> anyone have an idea?
[17:35] <ddfire> a pdf?
[17:35] <ddfire>  a clue?
[17:36] <jmarsden> ddfire: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[17:40] <ddfire> jmarsden: THANKS
[17:40] <ScottK> !backports | ddfire
[17:40] <ScottK> ^^ Also has relevant information.
[17:41] <geser> does somebody else have a problem connecting to bugs.debian.org?
[17:41] <ddfire>  !packaging
[17:42] <ddfire> i read the backport policy
[17:42] <ddfire> but i think is to much work backport it
[17:42] <ScottK> There's some information in there about how to also.
[17:42] <ddfire> ScottK:  probabli i am wornk
[17:42] <ddfire> i will ask for a backport
[17:42] <ddfire> thanks all
[17:44] <jmarsden> geser: bugs.debian.org seems to be down? It does not respond to ping either.
[17:45] <iulian> geser: Yes
[17:45] <iulian> I mean, I do.
[17:45] <ScottK> iulian: You do reach it or you do have trouble?
[17:45] <iulian> The latter.
[17:47] <iulian> I've been trying to take a peek on a bug but I can't.
[17:58] <ddfire> hi again
[17:58] <ddfire> the multipackage section is useless maybe have other link?
[18:04] <RainCT> REVU wiki pages are currently at /MOTU/Packages/REVU/. Does anyone mind if I move them to /MOTU/REVU/, to have shorter URLs (considerig that /MOTU/Packages is deprecated anyway)? Or perhaps even to /REVU/?
[18:29] <gouki> RainCT / crimsun - Is it 'ok' to s/jaunty/intrepid in the changelog in order for the PPA to build the package? Since the next REVU day is in 4 days, I don't think PPA will support Jaunty by then.
[18:29] <`Chris> Hello, I've sent a mail to the mentor mailing list a few days ago - Do you guys know what I can do to increase the chances of finding a prospective mentor? :)
[18:29] <gouki> `Chris, you can talk with huats once he is online.
[18:30] <`Chris> gouki: Oh ok then thanks
[18:30] <gouki> He takes care of finding mentors for people interested in the mentor program.
[18:30] <`Chris> Oh I guess he must be busy then
[18:30] <gouki> Besides that, you can also read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring - But you probably did that already.
[18:31] <`Chris> Yeah several times :)
[18:31] <gouki> Heheh. Not really ... The team is small: https://edge.launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception
[18:32] <`Chris> Just 3 proper mentors? :-o
[18:32] <gouki> No, three assigned.
[18:32] <gouki> Maybe people don't ask for mentors that much.
[18:33] <`Chris> Or they've gone inactive :(
[18:33] <gouki> Apparently you can mail them directly asking if its possible to have a mentor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor
[18:34] <ScottK> gouki: I think Jaunty PPA got turned on today.
[18:34] <`Chris> My launchpad already has Jaunty
[18:34] <gouki> ScottK, ohh, great then. Thank you for getting back to me.
[18:34] <`Chris> But not Intrepid
[18:34] <ScottK> gouki: You can always ask questions here.  We are all potentially your mentor in some specifics.
[18:34] <`Chris> Also gouki I've mailed a few days ago, I just like things to happen fast
[18:35] <gouki> ScottK, yes, indeed. Most of the help is coming from this channel (it's true what they say about you guys/gals :P). Since my mentor is having a busy week :)
[18:36]  * RainCT wants a mentor on how to mentor *g*
[19:35] <quadrispro> RainCT, hi! it should be ready -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
[20:31] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, are you busy?
[20:31] <DktrKranz> quadrispro, not that many
[20:32] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, bug 296471
[21:18] <alefteris_> hi all! can I ask newbee packaging questions here or there is a seperate channel for that?
[21:19] <geser> here
[21:23] <alefteris_> I'm looking at pbuilder options to use with create (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto) can't find out what --variant does on the man page. also do i need to spesify my cpu arch/distribution/other-mirror or it picks up the defaults?
[21:24] <alefteris_> i meant picks up my current system settings
[21:26] <geser> for --variant see the manpage of debootstrap
[21:26] <geser> for cpu it uses your default arch
[21:27] <alefteris_> thank you geser :)
[21:27] <geser> it's a long time for me since I created my pbuilder so I don't know the defaults for the others
[21:39] <bmm> Anybody willing to comment on my latest REVU upload is hereby invited: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink
[21:59] <porthose> bmm: try uploading again there is no .orig.tar.gz showing
[22:00] <bmm> porthose: Ah, sorry, thought I had to do a debuild -S -sd for the second upload... confused by PPA I guess. I'll do a new upload. Thanks!
[22:01] <sebner> RainCT: is dget from Revu already working?
[22:01] <ScottK> sebner: One could always dget from REVU.
[22:01] <sebner> ScottK: ah. ok thx
[22:02] <ScottK> LP is the only service I know of 'unique' enough for it to be a problem.
[22:02] <RainCT> sebner: you can dget from anywhere as long as there is a .dsc and the matching .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz are in the same directory
[22:03] <RainCT> (and theres dgetlp in ubuntu-dev-tools, btw)
[22:03] <sebner> RainCT: so what was this feature you are implementing for Revu? ^^
[22:03] <ScottK> Only needed for PPA now.
[22:03] <ScottK> Regular package URLs are working for dget these days.
[22:04] <sebner> kk
[22:04] <RainCT> sebner: apt-get'able source repositories
[22:04] <sebner> RainCT: \o/
[22:05] <sebner> ScottK: I got a challange, already seen it?
[22:05]  * ScottK checks mail
[22:05] <RainCT> sebner:   echo "deb-src http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/archive/ jaunty revu" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list
[22:06]  * sebner hugs RainCT =)
[22:06] <ScottK> sebner: I don't see any mail.
[22:06]  * RainCT neither
[22:07]  * RainCT hugs sebner back, btw
[22:07] <sebner> ScottK: I suppose apachelogger is not subscribed to the ML, He sent it to me but CC'ed the MC
[22:07] <ScottK> Ah.  Likely.
[22:08]  * ScottK recalls apachelogger getting a challenge on his core-dev application.
[22:08] <sebner> ScottK: you are the dark shadow, why do you think did I get one from him ;)
[22:09] <ScottK> sebner: [17:07] <sebner> ScottK: I suppose apachelogger is not subscribed to the ML, He sent it to me but CC'ed the MC <-- You told me.
[22:10] <sebner> ScottK: language skills ... I mean why does he want me to do this challange, same reason why you prepared a challange for him ;)
[22:10] <ScottK> OH.
[22:10] <ScottK> Actually it wasn't me.  It was sispoty, IIRC.
[22:11] <sebner> ah k
[22:11] <sebner> sry then
[22:11] <ScottK> It's meant to resolve uncertainty.
[22:12]  * ScottK ponders a "Must fix and RC bug in Debian" requirment for MOTU applicants.
[22:12] <sebner> ScottK: I support that, after I became one :P
[22:12]  * sebner hopes that everybody got that joke
[22:12] <DktrKranz> sebner, want a RC bug to solve? Go and fix nut ;)
[22:13] <sebner> DktrKranz: BAH :P
[22:13] <nxvl> you can fix evolution too
[22:13] <nxvl> :D
[22:13] <DktrKranz> he blocks collectd merge, and arnaud is a cool guy ;)
[22:13] <DktrKranz> s/he/it/
[22:13] <ScottK> nxvl: The best way to fix Evolution is install Kmail.
[22:14] <nxvl> ScottK: i don't really like Kstuff
[22:14] <nxvl> :D
[22:14]  * sebner is for TB
[22:14] <sebner> nxvl: shouldn't you still hide from me? :P
[22:14] <ScottK> nxvl: Did you try KDE4?  It's very different.
[22:14] <nxvl> ScottK: yep, still don't like it
[22:15] <nxvl> ScottK: i still notice the desktop, which isn't something i want to notice
[22:15] <ScottK> K
[22:15] <nxvl> that's why KDE users are so fans of KDE and Gnome users just don't care
[22:15]  * sebner ^5 nxvl for that 
[22:15] <sebner> and now go and hide again :P
[22:15] <nxvl> right! i almost forgot
[22:15]  * nxvl hides
[22:16] <sebner> heh
[22:16] <NCommander> My only grip with KDE4 is its SLOW without hardware acceleration
[22:16] <DktrKranz> nxvl, the real desktop (Tm) is when you press CTRL+ALT+F1
[22:16] <NCommander> Vista ran faster until I finally figured out how to cox the 2-D accelerator to work
[22:17] <RainCT> DktrKranz: +1
[22:17] <nxvl> DktrKranz: yup
[22:17] <nxvl> DktrKranz: that's why terminator is the perfect desktop :D
[22:17]  * sebner hides from the emacs OS folks xD
[22:17] <sebner> *emacsOS
[22:22] <quadrispr0> hi RainCT
[22:22] <RainCT> quadrispr0: hi
[22:23] <quadrispr0> RainCT, i've uploaded new version of installation-report-generator to REVU
[22:23] <DktrKranz> nxvl, I think "Canonical Desktop Experience" members have been hired to reach one goal: remove GNOME and KDE, leaving Ubuntu users with console-based only programs and a d*mn fast O.S.
[22:23] <quadrispr0> did you check it?
[22:24] <RainCT> apachelogger: nice quest :)
[22:24] <RainCT> but a KDE package.. that's evil *g*
[22:24] <RainCT> quadrispr0: nope, I hadn't time today
[22:24] <quadrispr0> ah, ok ;)
[22:25] <nxvl> james_w: i'm just working on ssmtp merge, and i've just noticed it's maintained in svn on debian
[22:25] <directhex> DktrKranz, nah, the new GUI will be based on Mono using the Windows Presentation Framework libs nicked from a Vista box
[22:25] <laga> DktrKranz: that's cool if it's gonna ship with irssi
[22:25] <sebner> RainCT: very evil
[22:25] <nxvl> james_w: so i better move it to bzr branches, but the question is, where?
[22:25] <nxvl> james_w: i should create a branch on motu or in the server team?
[22:25] <james_w> nxvl: I don't really have a good answer for that, sorry.
[22:25] <nxvl> james_w: which are the plans
[22:26] <nxvl> oh ok
[22:26] <nxvl> os just wherever it fits?
[22:26] <DktrKranz> directhex, wow, mono! And what about bash brainfuck porting?
[22:26] <james_w> nxvl: some like to have the owner match the uploader group, some like to have it where it will be worked on
[22:26] <DktrKranz> laga, you have to write your own client to connect to IRC, irssi is too GUI-friendly
[22:26] <directhex> DktrKranz, no need, we have brainfuck for .net!
[22:26] <laga> DktrKranz: oh. can i have perl?
[22:27] <james_w> nxvl: launchpad will grow support for branches where the write permission is tied to the upload permission soon, but until then you're a bit stuck.
[22:27] <nxvl> james_w: so for this case server team
[22:27] <DktrKranz> laga, no. just asm
[22:27] <james_w> nxvl: my opinion is put them wherever you like. If someone outside the team want to upload and push they will find you and ask you to help
[22:27] <RainCT> apachelogger: that package is funny :P
[22:27] <NCommander> bahahah
[22:28] <nxvl> right, i will talk to the team
[22:28] <nxvl> thank you!
[22:29] <directhex> hah! i can find a brainfuck.net compiler made in python, and one made in c. no self-hosting ones for some reason
[22:29] <directhex> why woukdn't you write a brainfuck compiler in brainfuck?
[22:30] <sebner> directhex: to learn a language you have to write a compiler for the language in the language :P
[22:30] <directhex> sebner, precisely!
[22:31] <sebner> directhex: great talk ;)
[22:32] <directhex> http://modbf.sourceforge.net/ - why?
[22:33] <ajmitch> why not?
[22:33] <NCommander> ack
[22:33] <NCommander> brainfrack
[22:34] <directhex> this one's 306 lines of C# and works fine
[22:34] <sebner> directhex: what?
[22:35] <directhex> hm, this one's non-free
[22:35] <directhex> sebner, bf.net compilers
[22:35] <sebner> directhex: WTH? xD crazy
[22:37] <directhex> this one's closed source, written in VB.NET, and comes with a full BF IDE
[22:38] <directhex> it translates your BF code to VB, C, JS. that's cute
[22:39] <sebner> directhex: the other question is if it's working xD
[22:39] <directhex> this GUI one? no. needs porting work, e.g. stop hard-coding "\" into paths
[22:39] <bmm> Thanks everybody for the comments on my upload. I'll nag people about it again another day. Cya!
[22:52] <directhex> yay, vb.net support has landed in ubunt
[22:52] <directhex> i mean, it's a crappy language, but it's used by plenty of windows people, so it makes ubuntu more attractive
[23:10] <icf7> Mmm .., when I call  pbuilder build mydsc.dsc , pbuilder fails because it requests out-of-date versions of various dependencies. Nevertheless,  pbuilder login  ,  apt-get install somedependency  works fine. Any ideas?
[23:11] <NCommander> icf7, try pbuilder update
[23:11] <icf7> NCommander: Already did that. Anyway, the --build and --login options are supposed to work with the same chroot, aren't they?
[23:12] <NCommander> yeah
[23:12] <NCommander> Hrm
[23:12] <NCommander> When building dsc, are you sure your not trying to pull in a dependency that is too new for your pbuilder chroot?
[23:14] <icf7> NCommander: no, all dependencies are versionless
[23:14] <NCommander> curious
[23:15] <NCommander> Is your pbuilder instance using the same ubuntu release as you are?
[23:16] <icf7> Oh! Got it. I have two pbuilders, pbuilder(unmaintained) and pbuilder-sid(up-to-date) which is a script  pbuilder "$@" --someoptions . I knew pbuilder is weird when it comes to option placement, but that weird ...