=== matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk [01:59] rockstar: ping... [02:09] How do i delete my account [02:10] https://edge.launchpad.net/~stgraber/+deactivate-account [02:11] hmm, https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+deactivate-account [02:11] to have an url that'd work for everyone :) [02:13] I said linux sucks foir the reason =) [02:16] I said Linux sucks for the reason why i deactivated my account because it does [02:18] That's very thoughtful and pleasant of you. [02:29] Yeah [02:33] I am going to do a tombstone piledriver to my linux box [02:39] I am going to do a tombstone piledriver to my linux box [03:01] #/join launchpad-meeting [03:16] rockstar: ping .... [03:16] Aron_, hi. [03:16] I am going to do a tombstone piledriver to my linux box [03:16] rockstar: please check your email [03:17] AMDpenguin, please stop spamming the channel. [03:17] AMDpenguin: you've repeated yourself quite a few times. If you want to talk about ubuntu, I suggest #ubuntu; if you need help with launchpad, we'd be delighted to help you here. [03:18] rockstar: see my private message window [03:19] If you want support with Ubuntu, #ubuntu is the place. If you want to complain about Ubuntu, /dev/null is the place. [03:20] ... [03:20] wgrant: so interesting... [03:20] wgrant: thats not really true; all feedback is useful - but #ubuntu is definitely the place for people to start [03:21] rockstar: see it? [03:21] lifeless: #ubuntu has enough traffic as it is; we don't want threats about people destroying their machines in there too. [03:21] wgrant: if someone is feeling frustrated with their machine, they need someone to seek help [03:21] wgrant: shutting them off means we don't find out about the issues [03:22] wgrant: regardless; none of this is ontopic here. [03:22] That is of course true. [03:22] Aron_, I don't see an email from you, but I do know what you're looking for. === barry is now known as barry-away [04:16] cprov: Excellent! Jaunty PPAs will be most useful soon. [04:17] wgrant: yup [04:18] cprov: Do you know if there's a bug on the misleadingness of showing 'frozen' as a distroseries status on +ppas? [04:18] A few people were confused by that this time, and it's irrelevant for PPAs. [04:18] wgrant: for jaunty ? [04:18] cprov: Yes. [04:19] And Intrepid, near the end. [04:19] wgrant: it was indeed frozen, what was the issue ? [04:19] cprov: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas shows the distroseries status, and people were getting confused as to why Intrepid PPAs would be frozen. [04:19] Or Jaunty PPAs. [04:21] wgrant: ISWYM, well, the status refer to the ubuntu distroseries and it's supposed to help users to choose which PPAs the want to search for. [04:21] wgrant: any idea for making it clearer ? [04:21] cprov: Yep, it is useful, but showing 'frozen' isn't. [04:21] I don't know, sorry. [04:22] wgrant: ehe, fine it will think about it. Maybe beuno will have an idea. === cprov is now known as cprov-zzz [04:22] Night. [04:22] talk to you tomorrow, good night. [06:56] i thought PPAs were supporting Jaunty. my uploads are not showing in build records or my PPA page [06:58] gnomefreak: Have you waited at least 5 minutes? [06:59] wgrant: about that but i will wait some more if needed [06:59] Tue Nov 11 01:53:06 2008 EST its not 1:59 [07:00] s/not/now [07:00] the repo drop down doesnt show jaunty either [07:00] That's because you have no Jaunty packages accepted. [07:01] "# qt4-qtruby 1.4.10-1 in jaunty in PPA for Dan Colish 30 seconds ago " [07:01] So Jaunty PPAs are working. [07:01] But your upload was buggy. [07:01] how was it buggy? it says it had no issues [07:01] firegpg_0.6.2-0ubuntu1~jjv_source.changes: done. [07:01] Successfully uploaded packages. [07:01] Not running dinstall. [07:01] dput doesn't do much checking. [07:02] You're sure you uploaded to the right place and haven't received a rejection email? [07:03] Uploading to ppa-gnomefreak (via ftp to ppa.launchpad.net): [07:03] i will check email now [07:05] its telling me that the version i have uploaded already cant be used in new upload. the one now is intrepid in PPA i uypdated changelog to jaunty and they wont lert it in because version #s are same [07:05] i think thats a bug in LP/PPA [07:05] No. [07:06] That's how Debian archives have worked for years. [07:06] You need to change the version. [07:06] Or copy it from Intrepid. [07:06] k ill change version and dee what happens [07:07] s/dee/see [07:07] Checking for emails of rejection is generally a good idea if things don't show up... [07:22] uploading new versions ill check in morning its already 2:20 am [07:22] Night. [07:22] I normally refrain from using my OpenPGP key after 1am. [07:23] :) === jamesh_ is now known as jamesh === RAOF_ is now known as RAOF === lifeless_ is now known as lifeless [10:00] kiko-afk: what are 'lpnet oopses'? [10:01] The first two were ones I got from edge [10:03] Ursinha: thanks [10:05] Hobbsee: He probably assumed, like I did initially, that the links you provided were the same as the non-links. [10:06] But the non-links were for edge, while the links were for prod/lpnet/whateveritisnow [10:06] wgrant: ah, right. They weren't - it was just that ubottu found some links for some, but not the original ones [10:18] * wgrant is mildly amused at the last sentence of bug #6597. [10:18] Launchpad bug 6597 in soyuz "Buildmaster has performance issues" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6597 [10:18] heh [10:23] ah yes, it's still timing out [10:23] Error ID: OOPS-1046EB71 [10:24] * Hobbsee adds to the bug. [10:24] thanks [10:24] that page is the bane of my life [10:25] Hobbsee: is it timing out *every* time? [10:26] bigjools: 2/2 so far. OOPS-1046EB72 [10:26] Hobbsee: can you try lpnet instead of edge [10:26] * Hobbsee tries a few more times [10:26] and you're accepting a new upload I presume? [10:26] OOPS-? [10:26] unapproved [10:26] k [10:27] oh, *damn*. [10:27] Someone just accepted the two packages I could have taken. [10:27] (I was using 1 to test) [10:28] Hobbsee: I'm sure NCommander will consent to running some more backports for you :P [10:28] wgrant: was just thinking that...I'm sure that I can convince someone to do some more crackports. [10:28] wait, what? [10:28] what did I break now? [10:29] NCommander: You didn't. Yet. [10:29] NCommander: nothing. I just want something that's a decent backport, so I can try accepting it. [10:29] Hobbsee, you can accept things? [10:29] NCommander: ...yes [10:29] Hobbsee, do you need a source level backport, or an automatic backport? [10:29] Uploaded backports, yes... [10:30] that answers that [10:30] NCommander: source backport, please. [10:30] Let me find something [10:30] cool, thanks [10:30] I did most of the soul ones [10:30] Hobbsee, why do you want to accept something now? [10:31] NCommander: because i'm hitting a launchpad bug, and bigjools wants to know if it happens on lp.net. However, I can't use the backport I was testing with before, as someone else has gone and accepted it [10:31] I don't have any outstanding source backports I can upload [10:31] (source backports require two acks) [10:31] But I can do what would normally be an automatic one by hand [10:31] retroactive acks from jdong? :P [10:32] oh yes, that'd work [10:32] Ok [10:32] let me find a good candiate === popey_ is now known as popey [10:34] Hobbsee, ok, I got a candidate [10:34] Its a library with no rdepends, so if something breaks, nothing actually gets damaged [10:35] * Hobbsee mutters something about crackports [10:36] so why does someone want that backproted,then? [10:36] * NCommander shrugs [10:36] I don't ask why in cases like this [10:41] Hobbsee, crackport uploading [10:41] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/260325 [10:41] Launchpad bug 260325 in hardy-backports "Backport libgee 0.1.3 to Hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] [10:41] so what's this bug? [10:42] NCommander: can't accept from the queues. Timeout. [10:43] * NCommander waits for the accept email [10:43] Hobbsee: I have your oops in front of me [10:43] accepting kde4libs? [10:43] bigjools: yes [10:44] Still no accept email [10:45] NCommander: it's in the queue, so.... [10:45] NCommander: thanks [10:45] I should have gotten an ACK email [10:45] even if its unaccepted [10:47] bigjools: should I try accepting another one, or should I wait? [10:47] Hobbsee: I have the data I need, so don't wait on my account [10:48] bigjools: hmmm....okay. That one works [10:48] Hobbsee: it seems kde4libs in particular is a PITA [10:49] bigjools: i know the other one started with a K, but i didn't think it was kde4libs (the one on the weekend), if that helps. [10:49] launchpad just hates KDE? :P [10:49] Hobbsee: I think that one was kde4libs as well [10:49] oh [10:49] fair enough :) [10:49] Hobbsee: just KDE4 I think, 4.1.2 still sucks :) [10:50] bigjools: hah. You'd better not say that with KDE people in here.. [10:50] Hobbsee: I am one of them [10:50] bigjools: you do kde stuff, or you run it? [10:50] I use it [10:51] oh. I meant those who do development / packaging of the stuff :) [10:51] loads of regressions from 3.5 frustrate me [10:51] Hi. Can I easily add hardy-backports to the packages available in my PPA for compile-time deps? [10:51] Laibsch, no :-/ [10:51] Not unless there has been progress in this respect [10:52] bigjools: that's one of the reasons i stopped running it, too :) [10:52] Hobbsee: still on hardy then? [10:52] bigjools: nah. I run gnome, and have done so since gutsy. [10:52] ah [10:52] I still see edgy kubuntu every once in a while, and am reminded. [10:56] bigjools: Since the archive dependencies are no longer hardcoded, are we going to see a pocket-enabling UI soon? [10:56] wgrant: -ish, yes [10:57] Excellent. [10:58] Then all that's needed to make PPAs very useful is multiple PPAs per user. [10:58] wgrant: that will happen later next quarter [10:58] bigjools: Ooh. Excellent. [10:59] I am also toying with the idea of allowing upload rights set outside of the owning team [10:59] I fail to see how there can be a smooth migration path, unless people have primary PPAs, just to add to the primary/PPA confusion. [10:59] That would be good. [10:59] Lots of projects do really strange things now. [10:59] wgrant: yes, the migration will be a pain [11:00] bigjools: Do you have a solution? [11:00] wgrant: we have some ideas, no firm solution yet [11:00] bigjools: Ideas are better than nothing, at least. [11:01] Anyway, it's good to see it's back on the cards and scheduled. [11:01] it will hurt somewhere I expect [11:01] i created a team, "ecryptfs-devel" in launchpad; you guys created a mailing list (thanks!); now I'm trying to direct a community member to join that mailing list ... it's not obvious how to do this from https://edge.launchpad.net/~ecryptfs-devel [11:01] help? [11:02] kirkland: Only team members can join lists, for some horrible (and probably not particularly good) reason./ [11:02] Given that anybody can see the archives, at least read-only subscriptions should surely be possible by anyone. [11:03] kiko-afk: PIng? [11:03] wgrant: hrm, that's annoying ... ecryptfs-devel has commit access, as the "driver" of our project [11:03] wgrant: okay, i may need to create yet another team then :-/ [11:03] kirkland: Yes... Launchpad ensures that each project needs like a dozen teams. [11:03] One for the PPA for devel, one for the PPA for stable. [11:03] One for the users mailing list. [11:03] One for the people who should have access to the branch as well as PQM. [11:04] One for the developers. [11:04] One for the developers mailing list. [11:04] One for driving. [11:04] One for release management for each series. [11:04] One for bugs. [11:04] One for security. [11:05] this is getting addressed in a sprint currently taking place in the US [11:06] bigjools: Which bit? The huge number of teams? [11:06] better roles [11:06] Thank goodness. [11:06] This has been a problem forever. [11:06] * wgrant wishes the sprinters luck. [11:08] awilkins: Is there anythign I can help with while kiko-afk's not here [11:09] Hobbsee, you didn't properly mark the bug Fix Released! [11:10] NCommander: don't we have launchpad-auto-closes-changelogs for that? [11:10] Hobbsee: Not for "Automated backports upload; no source changes" [11:10] Not for backports [11:10] Oh. [11:10] And that, too. [11:10] wgrant, not in general. [11:10] Because we use a horrible LP workaround for backports... [11:10] wgrant: oh, i thought he'd had to modify it, so it landed in that queue. [11:10] DistroSeries bugtasks need a pocket selector. [11:11] wgrant, sorta funny, the ubuntu (libgee) bug got changed :-) [11:11] ah, right, i see [11:11] so it works [11:11] Hobbsee: Yes, by adding the changelog entry. [11:11] Just not in the hardy-backports project [11:11] The *-backports projects are awful hacks. [11:11] That's true [11:11] You can't expect Soyuz to respect them. [11:12] And Soyuz can't expect me to respect it :-) *smacked* [11:12] wgrant: my bad. [11:12] * Hobbsee wasn't thinking. [11:13] * wgrant sends Hobbsee to the +queue corner. [11:13] mrevell: I was wondering if he got some email from me or whether he was just ignoring me :-) Was hoping to start a more active dialogue on the possibility of getting my hands on the Launchpad sources under NDA. === salgado-afk is now known as salgado [11:13] mrevell: I understand that he's probably tucked up in bed at this hour. [11:13] * Hobbsee breaks it, then breaks wgrant [11:14] * Hobbsee sends wgrant to her isys lectures. [11:14] awilkins: Ah, right. He won't be ignoring you :) I think he lives under a permanent mountain of email. He is the right guy to speak to, though, about that sort of thing. [11:14] Hobbsee: Now that's just harsh. [11:14] mrevell: It was rather a long email, maybe it got spamcanned :-) [11:15] mrevell: lifeless waskind enough to provide an intro [11:15] cool [11:15] awilkins Feel free to send me a copy if you're concerned your mail may have been lost in the system [11:17] mrevell: That's most gracious of you sir. [11:18] np :) [11:18] Hobbsee: do you have any more packages you can accept or is that it? Did you get kde4libs to work? [11:33] wgrant: *grin* [11:34] bigjools: I don't at the moment. Someone else got kde4libsto work [11:34] Hobbsee: ok thanks === mhlavink is now known as mhlavink_away [12:02] I sort of am here though. [12:04] * wgrant ties kiko-afk to his keyboard. [12:05] * Hobbsee solders the keyboard to the machine. [12:05] Ah, good point. [12:05] wgrant: no point tying someone to an unpluggable object. === mhlavink_away is now known as mhlavink [12:44] Hi Hobbsee [12:45] hey Ursinha === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch [13:21] er.. how do I include orig.tar.gz to be uploaded in my PPA with dput? [13:21] I add it in the changes file? [13:23] use debuild / dpkg-buildpackage with -sa [13:23] ah -sa.. I was using -sd :P [13:23] that'll do it === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevel [13:35] Hobbsee: thanks, you were right :) [13:35] savvas: :) [13:35] (as always heh) [13:36] not quite always, unfortunately :) [13:37] tisk tisk, modest :p [13:38] hm.. it's kind of big package for a ppa, I hope launchpad won't mind [13:38] 59mb, the secret maryo chronicles (1.6 release) [13:43] it probably won't [13:43] but i hope you have a decent uplink, so dput/tool_of_choice doesn't fall over === barry-away is now known as barry [14:02] Hobbsee: I kind of wish the same thing - it's 128k, but it is somewhat stable (surely hope so!) === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch [14:58] Hi [14:59] I've got a FTBFS for a jaunty upload to my PPA with "FATAL: kernel too old" during the dependency installation. Is this a known problem? [15:10] cprov: Can you answer RainCT? [15:10] mrevel: no, I'm sorry. === rockstar changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: rockstar [15:12] RainCT: is this a build failure or an upload failure? [15:13] bigjools: build [15:13] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19567192/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.sim_0.9.5~svn20080806-1ubuntu1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz [15:15] mmm that's not good [15:17] RainCT: can you file a bug please [15:18] Yikes. [15:19] That looks like something that would affect all Jaunty PPA builds. :( [15:19] soren: or just amd64 [15:19] bigjools: point [15:19] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19567193/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.sim_0.9.5~svn20080806-1ubuntu1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz [15:19] Except not. [15:19] :( [15:19] bleh [15:20] looks like glibc is fuxored [15:20] * soren eyeballs the Xen kernel on the PPA's... [15:22] * cody-somerville stabs Xen. [15:23] * soren joins the stabfest [15:47] bigjools: Sorry, missed your answer. Sure I can. Are PPAs part of Soyuz or against what should I file the bug? === mhlavink is now known as mhlavink_away [15:52] RainCT: file all bugs against "Launchpad" please, they get triaged and put in the right place [15:56] bigjools: OK, thanks [15:58] done, bug #296829 [15:58] Launchpad bug 296829 in launchpad "PPA failed to build Jaunty package with "FATAL: kernel too old"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296829 [15:59] thanks RainCT [15:59] soren: do you think that's a Xen problem then? [16:00] bigjools: Indirectly. === mrevel is now known as mrevell === matsubara is now known as matsubara-lunch === matsubara-lunch is now known as matsubara === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn === kiko-afk is now known as kiko [19:31] Hi, why is https://launchpad.net/~r0lf/+archive/+build/726653 failing? As far as I can see liblpsolve55-dev is available in a recent enough version from my PPA. [19:35] Laibsch, it looks like it's also trying to find lp-solve [19:37] Laibsch, and it's also looking for a different version of liblpsolve, one without the rofl1 at the end. [19:38] >= 5.5.0.10-10 should be satisfied === salgado is now known as salgado-afk [20:48] evening [20:49] hello! I went to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk/files/3830, clicked on 'bzrlib' and got that 'Please try again' page. Reloaded like the error page told me. And posted here... [20:49] is there any hope for https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/44455 ? [20:49] Launchpad bug 44455 in launchpad-bazaar "Support for darcs" [Wishlist,Confirmed] [20:49] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk/files/3830?file_id=bzrlib-20050309040749-4ac9a0e211602846 [20:52] is launchpad restricted to ubuntu? [21:06] jo_: hmmm- am seeing the same thing, chasing [21:08] jo_: absolutely not. it's free for any free software project, and can be used by proprietary projects for a fee [21:10] jo_: try now; just restarted that service [21:12] intellectronica: has it support for debian? eg the sourlces.list entries display on the webpage does not seem to support debian dists [21:12] spm: cool. [21:13] jo_: you mean PPAs? no, they only build for ubuntu (of course, in many cases you'll be able to use the resulting packages in debian anyway) [21:16] * wgrant looks suspiciously at intellectronica. [21:16] We're not necessarily compatible. [21:16] Not a good idea to recommend it. [21:17] wgrant, guess he's not recommending it, just saying one truth [21:18] i did not say necessarily. i said "in many cases", and put it in parenthesis. thinking about it again, though, i should have been more careful [21:18] :) [21:18] i'd go further and say that i'd recommend switching to ubuntu and solving the problem that way :D [21:18] hahaha [21:19] haha [21:19] just switched back to debian ;) [21:19] jo_: really? how come (just out of curiosity) [21:20] btw: is the launchpad web application available to use on an own server? [21:20] jo_: no, it's a hosted service [21:21] intellectronica: hm, just consuetude... [21:22] i see a project page on https://launchpad.net/launchpad but no code [21:22] I suppose, now that lpnet is importing sid and lenny, it wouldn't be too hard to have Debian PPAs. [21:22] fair enough [21:22] jo_: launchpad is not (yet) open source [21:23] Do we have a roadmap for that yet? [21:23] wgrant: a roadmap for what? [21:23] for Debian PPAs hopefully ;) [21:23] intellectronica: The open sourcing. [21:24] even better [21:24] We have a badly publicised upper bound, but nothing else. [21:24] in which language is it written? [21:24] Python. [21:24] wgrant: i don't think there's a public roadmap yet, but things are happening all the time to advance this. for example, did you notice that we moved our wiki from our internal server to dev.launchpad.net? [21:25] intellectronica: I knew that was being done, but didn't know it had been. [21:25] You guys *really* need to publicise things better. [21:27] intellectronica: There doesn't seem to much anything useful there yet. [21:28] wgrant: but it's a start. be patient, and you're in for a string of very pleasant surprises over the next few months :) [21:28] Right, it's certainly a promising start. [21:29] jup. [21:30] guess the world needs software project management tools [21:31] (I am the world) [21:56] wgrant, we're taking large steps to get LP open sourced. We have a public wiki now, and are migrating data to there from our internal one. [21:57] jo_, Much of the value add in Launchpad comes from it being a central source for many projects. Installing it on your own server is not recommended. [22:01] rockstar: I hope a launchpad-launchpad plugin (similar to {bugzilla,trac}-launchpad) will be written before the code is released, or things aren't going to end well. [22:01] wgrant, why won't the end well? [22:02] There will be other LP instances set up. You can be pretty much sure of that. [22:02] There needs to be some way to communicate between them, or the point of LP is lost. [22:03] wgrant, maybe. [22:04] I think parts of a full LP instance will be set up, but running your own LP instance would require a lot of infrastructure methinks. [22:04] A lot of people just want the bugtracker. [22:05] Once you exclude soyuz, things must get much simpler. [22:05] And what's wrong with the bugtracker on Launchpad. Why don't they want to use it here. [22:05] rockstar: Because people see Canonical as another big evil corporation. [22:05] That feeling will probably dissipate somewhat once it's free, but not entirely. [22:07] wgrant, refelect on that for a second. Canonical is a big evil corporation that produces software that these people WANT to use? [22:07] s/refelect/reflect [22:08] I think people will be doing themselves a disservice by setting up their own Launchpad instance. [22:08] rockstar: Canonical is a big evil corporation that produces software that these people can review and run independently from a big evil corporation. [22:08] Oh, they will be. [22:11] rockstar: that doesn't stop people from thinking that way I'm afraid. [22:11] * LarstiQ does encounter it. [22:11] LarstiQ, thinking what? [22:12] rockstar: that Canonical is evil and/but running Launchpad themselves would be fine. [22:12] LarstiQ: Exactly. [22:12] I'm not in that camp, but lots of people are. [22:12] LarstiQ, those people are not our users. We care about our users. [22:12] rockstar: You don't have users. [22:12] Not many, anyway. [22:13] wgrant: pardon? [22:13] rockstar: mja, I wouldn't be too sure of that. [22:14] elmo: Compared to things like SourceForge, and generally within the Free software world, LP has very few projects using it. [22:14] wgrant: users != projects [22:14] Oh, and I would like to see stats about how many LP accounts have ever actually been used on LP, and not just for ShipIt. [22:15] wgrant, I don't have users? [22:15] wgrant: also, I'd think you'd be surprised how many projects useLP [22:15] I know I was [22:15] elmo: silent majority? [22:15] LarstiQ, yes, for the most part. [22:16] also, if you get to discount shipit users, I get to discount the quagmire of a million unmaintained, unused, dead projects on SF :-P [22:16] * LarstiQ knows one question he gets as a bzr person is 'so, do any (significant) projects actually use bzr?' [22:16] elmo: Good point on the dead projectss. [22:16] elmo, I have at least three sourceforge accounts. :) [22:16] LarstiQ: That's another big one, yes. [22:16] LarstiQ: you have an answer for that now :) [22:16] of course the next questions "ok, who else" :( [22:17] elmo: yeah :/ [22:17] Is there a way to see which projects on Launchpad are actually real and not fakes produced by Ubuntu devs? [22:17] and then when I mention Launchpad that also doesn't count as an external project, sigh [22:17] wgrant, we try, for the most part, to keep project space clean. [22:17] LarstiQ: Launchpad isn't a project. It's a big black box without a freaking changelog. [22:17] wgrant: do you mean registered by other people to keep track of things? I do that too and am not involved with Ubuntu. [22:18] rockstar: There are still lots of fakes. They're simply placeholders for us to stick bugwatches on. [22:18] wgrant: if you're evaluating if a large codebase is workable with bzr, that doesn't matter. Nor need things be free software. [22:19] LarstiQ: True. [22:19] But this reminds me - why doesn't Launchpad have a changelog visible any more? There used to be one sent out at releases. [22:19] Years ago... [22:19] Now we just have to guess at when things might be fixed. [22:20] huh? [22:20] wgrant: launchpad is a bug tracker. anything that gets fixed has a bug that goes into Fix Released [22:20] wgrant: doesn't mrevell send those out still? [22:20] elmo: No.. [22:20] elmo: We get a few big features that are irrelevant to distros. [22:20] elmo: The early 2006 changelogs were excellent. [22:21] Not everything is covered by milestoned bugs. The milestone lists have a very low signal:noise ratio, as things inevitably don't get finished. The bug summaries aren't always great. [22:22] They're not a replacement for a changelog. [22:22]