/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/11/#ubuntu-ops.txt

Myrttioh dear, is it that late AGAIN01:02
Piciaparrently.01:03
ubottuIn #ubuntu-offtopic, AtomicSpark said: ubottu> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not  compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle  configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues  with your system. See !ebox instead.01:44
Piciwebmin01:44
Pici!webmin01:44
ubottuwebmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system. See !ebox instead.01:44
jdongah, it was fun while it lasted though.01:58
Picipre-emptive ban on killb0t02:30
naliothgood call02:30
mneptokPici: pre-emptive? he was pasting "Le Chason De Roland" (i think)02:30
mneptok*Chanson02:30
mneptokOK, it was "The Mountain Wreath"02:32
Picimneptok: Also set a ban in #ubuntu actually, its rare that we get a flooder in -ot that hasn't already tried in #u or is going to.02:32
PiciYeah, http://www.njegos.org/petrovics/wreath.htm#summit 02:33
mneptokan equally anti-Islam polemic02:33
mneptok*le sigh*02:33
PiciAnd google actually made another hit for someone pasting the same thing in an irc channel...02:34
PiciAnd I just noticed that it was from irclogs.ubuntu.com02:34
naliothit meets the profile for the 'large text spammer'02:35
Piciooh... 02:38
=== hunk1 is now known as hunk4ths
ubottuIn #ubuntu-offtopic, MTecknology said: !unicode is <reply>Please stick with UTF-8. Unicode has no place on irc and especially not in nick complete.04:52
gnomefreakwhen are we reopening #ubuntu+1 im already using it ;)05:14
ubottuJ-_ called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (m0niker)06:05
bazhangsomeone should ban m0niker in -ot06:06
Flannel+106:06
Flanneleh, +1/206:07
bazhang@bansearch ward198307:31
ubottuNo matches found for ward1983!n=ward@91.178.110.99 in any channel07:31
bazhanggot to work, back later07:55
ikonialaters07:55
FlannelPoor Kinote, after that "ignore" comment he's being assaulted with suggestions.  I'll cut him some slack and let you all answer him ;)08:03
ikoniaI think his hardware is just failing08:06
FlannelI agree08:06
FlannelI imagine the optical drive that he's having failures with is the same bus as the harddrive he's having issues with.08:07
Flannelprobably same IDE cable08:07
ikoniaFlannel: concur08:07
ikonialeejongwook was on #ubuntu yesterday as a different user - his behaviour is a bit odd he persistantly asks "where he is" but also seems to know08:12
Flannelikonia: the seemingly arbitrary "abc"s are interesting08:18
Flanneloh08:18
ikoniaagreed08:20
* Flannel didn't get one in query though.08:20
ikoniaI did08:20
FlannelHe's learnign irssi, it could very well be that he's purely confused.08:20
Flannelalthough, accidentally querying in irssi is... difficult08:21
ikoniasaying abc 10 times is not learning08:21
Flannelno, I agree.08:21
elkbuntuforward him to fixyourconnection or something, see if he figures it out :P08:22
ikoniaahh now we are getting something08:23
FlannelEF_Codd was... interestingly short lived in #u08:26
ikoniamorning all09:15
FlannelHowdy ikonia 09:16
* elkbuntu pigs out on veggie kourma.09:17
ikoniagood to be off the train although it's an interesting chance to try out mobile broadbannd09:17
Flannelelkbuntu: You're not supposed to eat the karma of vegetarians, its not nice.09:19
elkbuntuFlannel, i'm considering going ovo-lacto-pescatarian at home. i eat meat most lunchtimes. it's too much to do it at home as well.09:20
elkbuntutranslation: (egg, dairy, fish)09:20
* Flannel hands elkbuntu a set of glasses.09:21
elkbuntueven though i can probably get away without the pesca too, i loves my prawns, and fried rice isnt the same without.09:21
elkbuntuFlannel, why?09:21
Flannelelkbuntu: I said nothing about you not eating meat09:21
elkbuntuikonia, a good network can stay connected even on the train09:22
elkbuntuFlannel, why the glasses though?09:22
Flannelelkbuntu: So you can see without fuzziness?09:22
Flannelnot drinking glasses, eye glasses.09:22
elkbuntuwhat fuzziness?09:22
Flannelnothing.09:22
elkbuntui'm totally not following this...09:23
Flannelelkbuntu: eating the *karma* of vegetarians, not being a vegetarian, and not eating korma either.09:23
FlannelIts not really important though09:24
elkbuntugood, because it seems i'm too tired to interpret09:24
elkbuntuoh hold on, i think i get it. you thought i was thinking you were picking on me for not eating meat?09:27
elkbuntui wasnt, i was just ranting. i put all my major life decisions through the ops filter -- you didnt know?09:28
ikonia elkbuntu hence why it was interesting for me to try 09:29
elkbuntuikonia, the only place in sydney i know which is reliably sans-internet is the underground. and i only reguarly commute through about 1/3 of that, which is 2 stops. 09:31
ikoniaelkbuntu: well I did the london main commute route today and lost signal 2 times, which was quite good,09:32
elkbuntueven telstra's coverage only reliably covers the platforms there, afaik.09:32
Myrttiubottu: tell MestariM about register10:15
ubottuError: I haven't seen MestariM, I'll let you do the telling.10:15
Myrttidamnit10:15
elkbuntuheh.10:18
ikonia@bansearch kfc10:19
ubottuNo matches found for kfc!n=just4why@60.50.179.239 in any channel10:19
ikoniaHmmm I know that nick for some reason10:19
MyrttiI need to figure out how to do a group registration and I also need to think of what namespace...10:19
Myrttibah10:19
elkbuntuhrm, apparantly 'sour sweaty BO smell' plus my deodorant/cheap_nasty_perfume_can_stuff smells like fruit yoghurt.10:20
Myrttielkbuntu: handy10:20
elkbuntuso, i now smell like i've taken a bath in yoghurt.10:20
Myrttinomnomnom10:20
* Myrtti thinks of lemon yoghurt chocolate bar, drools10:21
elkbuntuwould probably not be quite so nom as yoghurt.10:21
elkbuntui is so full now. too much vegie curry10:22
elkbuntuif you can actually call kourma 'curry'.10:22
elkbuntuLjL, btw, i suspect it's probably that time in the lifecycle of any party where the passed out guests need to be carried outside.10:23
=== popey_ is now known as popey
* Myrtti grunts11:06
ikoniahas tehre been any activity on the -irc mail list recently? 11:33
elkbuntunot since paul's towel.11:35
ikoniaok, that's my last mail too11:39
ikoniajust checking11:40
bazhangLimcore is on notice.12:14
elkbuntubazhang, a real notice or the same type he always gets?12:14
bazhangelkbuntu, next time will be a long ban; he entered the channel #ubuntu with something very inappropriate. I just missed it.12:15
ikoniaI'd have kicked and remoevd him for that12:16
ikoniawe've had a public "last warning in here" a while ago12:16
ikoniaI feel a need to enforce it with limcore as it's never going to change on his last last last last warning12:17
bazhangIf I had seen it in time I would have; I will gladly do so now.12:17
ikoniano no, it's gone now12:17
ikoniacan't really do it retrospectivly now12:17
bazhangif others present concur12:17
ikoniabut for my view - and I say it publicly so it's logged in this channel, limcore's behaviour should not be tollerated futher - and I'm half tempted to request a perm ban on him12:18
bazhangseveral months at the very least imo12:19
ikoniahe's had that12:19
ikoniait doesn't sink in12:19
elkbuntu15 mins before an op notices should never be a get out of jail free card for stuff as clearly and intentionally inappropriate as that.12:19
ikoniascrew it12:19
bazhangokay12:19
ikoniaI've muted him and I'll ask him waht happened about the little chat I had with him (logged in BT for the record)12:20
ikoniaelkbuntu: thank you for that, I agree with you, but always feel too harsh enforcing it12:20
bazhangI got distracted for a moment with the Palin 2012 spammer12:21
elkbuntuikonia, i get to pull rank in times like these, in a way :)12:21
ikoniabazhang: I was grabbing lunch12:22
jussi01hello all!12:23
* jussi01 thwacks ikonia...12:23
ikoniamorning sleepy12:23
bazhangnice.12:23
jussi01ikonia: is your phone on silent?12:23
bazhanglimcore is messaging vincent_12:24
ikoniaooh12:24
ikoniahang on12:24
ikoniaI put it on train12:24
jussi01hehe12:24
jussi01I went to bath for a bit, had a wander round :D12:25
ikoniaahh cool12:25
jussi01I had to steal your cord from the dell - the adapter didnt work :(12:26
ikoniarats12:26
ikoniano problem12:26
ikoniaas long as you don't leave with it as I don't have a spare 12:26
jussi01when will you be back?12:26
jussi01hehe12:26
jussi01I wontr12:26
bazhanghave to grab dinner back in a bit12:27
ikoniajussi01: looking like 3pm just waiting for green light from a meeting I'm in to be canceld then I'll leave12:27
jussi01ok12:27
HobbseeOut of general curiousity, did the #kubuntu-kde4 --> #kubuntu switch work well?12:30
elkbuntunot a clue12:31
jussi01yes12:36
jussi01Hobbsee: it went perfectly12:37
Hobbseejussi01: \o/12:37
jussi01there were one ot two little, "but I liked #kubuntu-kde4" complaints, but that happens with any change :)12:37
ikoniachange is bad !12:38
jussi01hahhah12:40
ikoniajussi01: what did you go to see ?12:46
* jussi01 bought a gobstopper the size of a cricket ball today...mind you, How it goes into anyones mouth is beyond me...12:46
jussi01ikonia: wandered round the baths arean, had a coffee at boston tea party, went to the "humbug" shop, 12:46
ikoniaahh12:47
elkbuntuwell, seems limcore isnt going to argue the point, so i'm off to bed.12:51
jussi01nini12:52
ikoniaelkbuntu: he had a go at me in pm asking "why" but same old same old "why is getting laid rude" " ar eyou a christian republican or something" etc etc12:54
elkbuntuin other words, completely ignoring the whole point.12:54
ikoniayup12:56
ikoniaso I walked away12:56
Hobbseeheh heh heh.12:56
HobbseeI'm sure even christian republicans don't have a problem with people getting laid, either.  Especially their own.12:57
Hobbseecrazy guy.  I wonder if he's going to start up in -bugs, and be given a holiday in there too.12:57
ikoniaHobbsee: been quiet as a mouse, thats the thing that frustrates me, his last posts in -bugs where pretty reasonable and half through through12:58
Hobbseeikonia: except for the usual logic of "it's broken for me, therefore it's an epic failure of ubuntu" including lots of handwaving12:59
ikoniaHobbsee I said half thought thorugh12:59
ikoniathorugh12:59
ikoniathrough even12:59
* Hobbsee has noticed a disturbing trend of unreproducable bugs from people who tend to try any solution that they can possibly find, and "tweak" their system as much as possible.12:59
Hobbseeespecially when they follow forums howtos.13:00
Hobbseeparticularly in regards to pulseaudio not working in intrepid, if they "fixed" it via the forums methods in hardy.13:00
ikoniaI agre, some of the howto's and guides, like the guy who was advertising on planet ubuntu (ubuntugeek is it) was just dangerous13:00
ikoniaha ha, I think he's just been kicked from #gentoo13:02
LimCorehi13:07
LimCoreI agreed that commenting ubuntu quality is not wellcommed on most ubuntu channels13:07
LimCorebut now I see that making jokes that are not "christian" safe is not wellcomed either. What is about that?13:07
HobbseeLimCore: define how being christian relates to it at all?13:08
LimCoreeven ##linux forgo that extreme purist (good word?) policy13:08
LimCorewell, I have a trouble to find correct expression in english13:08
LimCoreit is the notion that any thing related to sex is offensive/bad/evil/etc13:08
Myrttihow does sex has to do with ubuntu problems?13:09
Myrttisex/gender/religion13:09
LimCoreit was offtopic indeed.  But I was told it was rude, I don't agree13:09
HobbseeMyrtti: because if you solve enough ubuntu problems, you deserve to get laid, apparently.13:09
MyrttiHobbsee: ah, right.13:09
MyrttiWhere can I sign up?13:09
LimCoreMyrtti: I was banned for asking that quiestion13:10
ikoniaLimCore lets cut to the chase 13:10
Myrttisorry, I'm having a slant day13:10
HobbseeMyrtti: what LimCore doesn't appear to realise is that a whole lot of people who work on the project don't *wish* to get laid by random people, nor do they particularly appreciate repeated questions along that line.13:10
Myrttispeaking of which13:10
ikoniaLimCore: you know the rules, you where offtopic and disruptive to the channel as normal - we have spoke about this and you just can't be in a channel with out being a distuption13:10
LimCoreHobbsee: so you say this joke is actually abusive?  *really* ?13:10
MyrttiI've got that Egyptian 18-y-o stalker on my pm again13:10
HobbseeLimCore: i've had enough people make "joking" comments about laying people, and other things in a sexual realm, to last me until next millenium.13:11
LimCorealso, I was asking for *myself*, since Im close to karma 1000 (yey)13:11
HobbseeLimCore: it's not a joke if you've heard it hundreds of times before, right?  For anyone13:11
ikoniaLimCore that doesn't matter13:11
LimCoreHobbsee: ok but I was asking for myself13:11
ikoniaikonia: is limcore a disruoption and should be banned ?13:11
HobbseeLimCore: well, dude, perhaps you should think a little about other people, and not be so selfish.13:11
ikoniaikonia: yes he should13:11
Myrttithank god these people know me13:11
ikoniathats fine, I've just confirmed it with myself13:11
LimCoreHobbsee: what do you mean by that13:12
HobbseeLimCore: just because you want to get laid doesn't mean you should be allowed to sexually harass other people, collectively or singularly, in the ubuntu project.  13:12
HobbseeIncluding with your "jokes"13:12
LimCoreHobbsee: this is true13:12
Hobbseeif you're that desperate, i'm sure that there are prostitutes in most countries.13:13
Myrttinow here's a hilarious thought. Perhaps I should hook up ASUS-tek with my virtual stalker13:13
LimCorebut I totally do not see this in absolutelly any way harrasing13:13
Hobbseewho will be happy to service you, as you desire.13:13
LimCoreHobbsee: thanks, I know, I use this option when needed \o/ but can we get back to my question - was this comment really abusive? If yes then why.13:14
ikoniaLimCore you forced people to listen to a joke about sex13:14
HobbseeLimCore: yes, it was.  A lot of the "jokes" often have higher implications.  And of course, if you want to welcome people to your project...13:14
ikoniapeople didn't want to see it13:14
Hobbseewell, not your project13:15
Hobbseeto *the* project13:15
PiciIn addition, you were already on thin ice due to previous misconduct in our channels.13:15
Hobbseethen that's not the way you behave.13:15
LimCorePici: yes I stoped saying what do I think about quality of some ubuntu packages, as requested13:15
ikoniaLimCore that wasn't the request13:15
Hobbseeexcept for -bugs earlier, apparently.13:15
ikoniaLimCore: you where ask to stop being rude/offensive/disruption/ranting13:15
LimCoreI honestly did not think this was rude or abusive.  13:16
ikoniaLimCore: you where also pointed at the irc guidelines and coc 13:16
ikoniaLimCore: but you knew it was offtopic and still did it13:16
ikoniaso you acn be banned for being offensive or offtopic - its up to you13:16
LimCoreso any sex related jokes ARE considered abusive then?   Then, why?13:16
HobbseeLimCore: did you *actually* think about how comments like that would make people feel welcomed to the project?13:16
HobbseeLimCore: dude, because people don't want to sleep with you.  They don't want consistent implications of you wanting to sleep with them, either.13:17
HobbseeLimCore: Shoudln't people get the right *just* to do FOSS without having to put up with that sort of crap?13:17
HobbseeSame for anyone and everyone who asks things related to that.13:17
LimCoreI think we are making a big deal from a small joke that passes as ok on most (all?) top-10 channels here.  Why is that13:17
HobbseeHell, making consistent remarks about black people woudl be the same thing, i'm sure.13:18
HobbseeLimCore: I think you probably need to go away, and have a think about how to make people feel welcome to a project, and how you should behave13:18
Hobbseebecause now you apparently don't get it13:19
LimCorebut Myrtti just above make same joke and it is suddenly ok, which increases my feeling that this judgment of same joke when done by me is not objective13:20
HobbseeI think you'll find that she booted herself just after that, deciding it was inappropriate.13:20
LimCorewhy this is a problem on #ubuntu and not on other channels here?13:21
PiciBecause we don't manage the other channels?13:21
* Hobbsee ntoes you're grasping at straws here.13:21
LimCoreHobbsee: I ment this as:  perhaps you are a bit over reacting in this manner - so I wonder is there any speciall reason for it that I should take into account13:21
bazhangLimCore, no13:22
bazhangLimCore, it is not an over-reaction.13:22
HobbseeLimCore: based on the fact that others don't seem to be disagreeing here....13:22
bazhangLimCore, quit while you are behind13:22
HobbseeLimCore: I think the fact that no one seems to be agreeing with you, *at all*, not in #ubuntu, and not here, suggests that you're the one in the wrong.13:23
LimCoredid any user said he felt offended?13:24
bazhangLimCore, you have a long history of being very denigrating towards the ubuntu project; this is just one more--even further egregious--example of it.13:24
Picibazhang: +113:24
bazhangikonia, PM?13:24
ikoniaalways13:25
PiciWell said13:25
HobbseeLimCore: most people can manage to actually obey a topic, unlike yourself apparently, so, no, they wouldn't have mentioned it there.13:25
Hobbseeanyway, you're just wasting time - you won't be let back in, indefinetly.13:25
bazhangis this only for #ubuntu Hobbsee ?13:27
Hobbseebazhang: so far.  13:28
bazhanghe is in -bugs as well I see.13:28
Hobbseebazhang: he didn't make such comments in there.13:28
LimCorehe is right here, btw13:28
bazhangokay thanks13:28
* Hobbsee has been watching bugs, and will continue to, though.13:28
bazhangLimCore, please /part now13:29
LimCoreok fine, I'm resposible for all the evil, and my comment hurt thousands of people, whatever, neh13:29
Hobbseewhile a channel-wide ban might certainly be nice, i think it's probably a little heavy handed currently.13:29
HobbseeOf course, if he decides to start disobeying other channel topics (such as asking for support in -bugs), then I can't see a reason why he wouldn't get a holiday from there...13:30
bazhangrage, how may we help you13:53
rageHello, ermm, I appear to be banned from #ubuntu, I'm using an ip that is common to a server, creep.bur.st13:54
bazhangrage, when were you first banned?13:56
rageNot 100% sure, I havent logged in for about 5-6 days13:56
bazhangrage, did you go by other nick perhaps?13:56
rageNope,13:56
rageAs I said, I'm on a shared IP, its possible someone else was abusive13:56
ikoniarage: I can see the ban on your host13:56
LjLrage, is the server managed by you?13:57
ikoniarage: who do you share it with13:57
rageNope13:57
bazhangEF_Codd perhaps?13:57
LjLrage, is "identd" running as root on the server?13:57
rageabout 20-30 people13:57
rageAs far as I'm aware yes13:57
LjLrage: wait a minute please13:57
ragethis is my login name for the server as well13:57
ikoniarage you said you'd not logged in for 4 - 6 days ?13:58
rageSorry, not logged into ubuntu, I wasnt clear13:58
rage#ubuntu13:58
rageI have been in #nexenta for the last 20 hours or so13:58
LjLrage, you can join13:58
rageBut otherwise yes13:58
rageI'll give it a go13:58
rageone moment13:59
rageExcellent, thank you all very much :-)13:59
rageI shall depart, thank you once again :-)14:00
LjLrage: if this happens again, please join here and point out that identd is running on the machine (also, if this happens again, consider reporting)14:00
LjLgah14:00
ikoniaLjL: out of interest, was it just his ident what makde you think he was not el_cod14:01
LjLikonia, well, the hostname definitely looks like a shell server, and in my lost, all users who joined from it were i=. so identd has been running for some time.14:02
ikoniaok14:02
LjLikonia: if he's just a troll who's running identd on a fancy hostname... well, we'll find out soon, i guess14:02
ikoniajust curious how you came to that action14:03
bazhangmahen2 is ready to go.14:03
LjL[15:01:25] <rage> Will do, the server has an anti irc abuse policy, so if someone has been misusing it they can be kicked off14:04
PiciThats nice to hear.14:04
genii-aroundGood morning, afternoon, or evening14:05
LjL@mark #ubuntu-ops rage creep.bur.st ban kept by ident14:05
ubottuThe operation succeeded.14:05
genii-around@login14:06
ubottuError: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong.14:06
genii-aroundHm14:06
LjLikonia: oh and last but not least, rage has been in my logs since august, while the trouble started much later, when other usernames from that host joined14:06
ikoniaok. so thats pretty valid14:07
jussio1ikonia: have you got out yet?14:18
ikoniayes14:19
ikoniaalthough please re-phrase that while in a public channel14:19
ikoniaI have no wish to give the wrong idea14:19
jussio1hahahah14:19
jussio1oops14:19
Picio.O14:20
jussio1ikonia: have you left work yet?14:20
ikoniano14:20
ikoniasat on a conference call14:20
ikoniawaiting to leave14:20
jussio1ok14:20
ikoniapraying to leave is more accurate14:20
jussio1hehe14:20
bazhanghaha14:20
ikoniajussio1: this phone is odd14:20
jussio1damn your house is cold... :D btw, is there a new style nokia charger around?14:21
PiciMy phone is sticky.  I spilled soda on it.14:21
jussio1ikonia: how "odd"?14:21
bazhangtime to scrub the logs14:21
ikoniajussio1 new style chrager in the kitchen, you can turn the heating on with the white dial in the hall14:21
bazhangstarting three minutes ago14:21
ikoniajussio1: feels funny as a phone, but not as bad as the blackberry14:21
LjLPici: so now if you take notes on it you get sticky notes, nice14:21
ikoniaLjL: bravo14:22
ikoniafunny in any language14:22
ikoniajussio1: you may have to give me some lessons later, this is quite different to my normal setup14:25
jussio1ikonia: no probs :D14:26
ikoniajussio1: have you found the heating control ?14:28
jussio1yes :D14:28
ikoniagood good14:28
genii-aroundWhy does !info kooka   show nothing but launchpad says it exists? 14:37
Pici!info kooka14:37
ubottuPackage kooka does not exist in intrepid14:37
PiciState: not a real package14:37
genii-aroundHm14:37
genii-aroundAnd yet https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/kooka/4:3.5.9-0ubuntu114:38
jussi01!info skanlite | genii-around14:39
ubottugenii-around: skanlite (source: skanlite): KDE 4 image scanning application. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.2-kde4.1.2-0ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 1185 kB, installed size 1608 kB14:39
Picigenii-around: Theres no Intrepid downloads for that, only hardy.14:39
jussi01genii-around: kooka has been replaced...14:40
Picis/downloads/downloads or builds/14:40
genii-aroundThanks jussi01 :)14:42
jussi01:D14:42
* genii-around blinks15:10
jussi01err... saywhat?15:14
PiciShe banned herself earlier, just removing the ban for whenever she decides to return.15:15
ikoniashe's a troll 15:15
ikoniajust like ljl15:15
fryguywhy am I banned from #ubuntu15:24
Picifryguy: one moment.15:26
Picifryguy: The op that banned you isn't around currently, and I don't have enough information to look at the ban until he returns.15:30
fryguyi was told to wait 4 hours, approximately 4 days ago15:31
Picifryguy: And who told you that?15:31
fryguydon't remember, it was quite a few days ago15:31
fryguyand i dont' keep logs of irc15:31
jussi01fryguy: I think that was me, did you come back in 4 hours?15:32
fryguynalioth I think? i dunno15:32
PiciAll I see is "let me be blunt.  Leave now and don't come back until flannel is active."15:32
fryguyjussi01: I did, and the op ignored me, so i waited a few more days15:32
bazhangit was flannel15:32
PiciI don't have that second request in my logs for whatever reason.15:32
bazhangfryguy, better talk with Flannel 15:32
fryguybazhang: i can't, he ignores me15:33
Picifryguy: We'll ask Flannel to comment on your ban, until then, theres nothing we can do.15:33
bazhangfryguy, sure you can. it has been nearly a week now.15:33
fryguybazhang: I messaged him, he never responded, this was a few days ago now.  I noticed I'm still banned, so i'm here inquiring about it15:34
bazhangfryguy, this is the place to ask. come back later today or tomorrow15:34
bazhangie not via PM15:34
Picifryguy: And we're responding.  I don't have a record of any comments on your ban from Flannel.  The next time he shows up we'll ask him so that we have something to say if you show up again and he isn't around.15:35
fryguyi'm at work now and can't get things done because an upgrade that i was trying to inquire about hosed my system pretty badly, so I'm in quite a situation right now, and would like a way to receive prompt support15:35
PiciHows that?15:35
fryguybazhang: exactly, this isn't the place to ask about it, which is why i asked him.  The only reason i'm in here now is because I kind of need some immediate results15:35
bazhangask in #kubuntu if you have a support question imo15:36
fryguythe support question is directly related to gnome15:36
bazhangthen you have to wait.15:36
fryguyand it only occurs in ubuntu installations of gnome15:36
fryguybazhang: i have waited, 4 days15:36
bazhang6 actually15:37
fryguyi was banned because of a personal interaction, nothing I did in the channel15:37
Picifryguy: Like I said, the rest of us don't have enough information to make the call either way.15:37
bazhangfryguy, yes, I recall.15:37
fryguyindirectly your fault, if I'm not mistaken15:37
bazhangfryguy, that is why you must iron it out with him in here.15:37
fryguybazhang: wait, a couple of minutes ago you told me it was inapproppriate to do in here, now you are saying do it in here?15:38
fryguycan you please be clear?15:38
bazhangfryguy, you must have misread15:38
fryguyi get conflicting messages from the occupants of this room all of the time, it would be helpful if we were consistent15:38
bazhang<bazhang> fryguy, this is the place to ask. come back later today or tomorrow15:38
fryguy10:35:59 +  bazhang| fryguy, this is the place to ask.15:38
jribabout your ban, not support15:39
bazhangright15:39
jribfryguy: Flannel will see this and leave a comment about your ban.  For now, try ##linux or #kubuntu15:39
fryguyit's an ubuntu specific problem15:41
jribOn a different matter, we should start a wiki with the names of ops who don't care if their bans are managed by others.  Personally, anyone can remove one of my bans.  If I feel differently, I'll leave a comment on the ban tracker.  I know others have said this as well15:41
PiciThen you're out of luck, sorry.15:41
jribfryguy: I don't see what other information you expect here15:41
fryguyi was told 4 hours, it's been 6 days15:42
jribfryguy: there are ubuntu channels on other networks as well you can try15:42
fryguyin those situations, I don't speak those languages, and my problem is specific to the version of gnome on ubuntu 8.1015:42
fryguyso kubuntu and xubuntu aren't appropriate15:42
jribfryguy: you don't speak english?15:43
fryguyi do, i am banned from the english speaking ubuntu channel, which is why i am in here15:43
jribfryguy: there are networks other than freenode with ubuntu channels on them15:43
fryguyand i am banned from that one channel because of a personal interaction with an op of all of the channels, seems strange15:43
fryguyjrib: is there a list of other official ubuntu support channels on the ubuntu site somewhere? I don't remember seeing any listed other than freenodes15:44
jribfryguy: they're not official, n15:44
jribo15:44
fryguyI kind of need an official channel, the machine I'm working with right now isn't mine.  And I would like a source of reliable answers, not random people who don't have a clue15:44
bazhangfryguy, you wont be unbanned until Flannel has weighed in.15:45
fryguyso, what am I supposed to do? message in here when flannel is around?15:45
jribfryguy: come back later about your ban, there's nothing else to be done now15:45
fryguysince he ignores me?15:45
jribfryguy: as we said: we will ask Flannel to comment when he is around15:45
fryguythis is my second attempt at getting rid of this, how many am I going to need to do?15:45
ikoniafryguy: you may try listening - then you'll get unbanned a lot easier15:47
Picifryguy: It depends on how soon you return and how soon Flannel comments on his ban.15:47
fryguyikonia: can you clarify that? i was told to contact flannel 4 hours later, which i did, and was ignored.  I try again 6 days later and am still unsuccessful15:47
fryguyikonia: what part of this am I not listening?15:48
ikoniafryguy 3 people in here have said "they" will speak to flannel, come back later and check with them15:48
ikoniafryguy: 3 people have offered other linux channel solutions to get you by in the mean time15:48
ikoniafryguy: so sitting in hear constantly saying "why why why" won't do anything, listening to the 3 people who've have helped, said they will help and advised what to do will15:48
fryguyikonia: which would imply that I'm going to need to come back at least once more, which is why i asked how many times i WOULD need to come back, since you will no doubt not contact me about the matter and I will have to come back and ask myself at another future time15:48
jribfryguy: you will need to come back at least one more time15:49
fryguyikonia: and I've explained why those channels aren't suitable for my needs and won't have the information I need15:49
ikoniafryguy what information don't they have15:49
Picifryguy: And we've explained that we cannot help you then. End of discussion.15:49
ikoniafryguy: they are english speaking linux and ubuntu based support channels15:49
fryguyikonia: what ubuntu did to a stock gnome installation, what patches were applied etc to change keygrabbing behavior of some keybindings15:49
fryguybecause it changes between 8.04 and 8.10, at least as far as I can tell15:49
naliothfryguy: shall i be blunt again?15:50
ikoniafryguy thats beyond the scope of support anyway - so #ubuntu wouldn not be the best place15:50
PiciThis is not a support channel.  Please see our suggestions above.15:50
fryguyikonia: how to manage default keybindings in ubuntu is outside of the scope of #ubuntu? hrmm15:50
ikoniafryguy thats not what you asked, you asked about patches 15:50
* ikonia backs away 15:50
fryguyikonia: right, but that is a cause/effect type thing.  I'm sure people have run into what i'm running into right now, so I would like to ask people about it15:51
PiciThere are no more discussions that can be had at this point that are either a) redundant or b) offtopic15:51
naliothfryguy: you've been informed of what you need to do15:51
fryguynalioth: again? this is the first time you've said anything in the past 20 minutes or so.  I would have just left a while ago, but ikonia was asking for some specifics so i'm providing them15:51
fryguyPici: i'm aware of that, i was simply answering ikonia 15:52
fryguysee my previous statement15:52
Picifryguy: and now you have. 15:52
PiciSee you later.15:52
fryguywhen can i expect flannel back?15:52
fryguylast time i was told 4 hours, is a second estimate too much to ask?15:52
ikoniaasked an answered15:52
ikoniaand15:53
fryguycan you repeat? i missed it15:53
ikoniano15:53
fryguywell can you not kick me for a moment so i can scroll back and read the answer then?15:53
ikoniafryguy: the answer is unknown15:53
Picifryguy: I'd say 4 to 6 hours, but thats a guess based on his idle time.15:54
fryguythis is great. I get banned from a channel for an unknown time because of a personal issue with one person, and there's nothing I can do about it15:54
fryguyall well15:54
* genii-around hands out the Advils and coffee15:55
ikoniaI didn't realise he was baiting/trolling at first15:55
jussi01bleh15:55
ikoniathought it was genuine15:55
ikoniajussi01: on train15:55
jussi01ikonia: :D15:55
jussi01ikonia: eta?15:56
jribAnyway, can anyone think of a way to maintain a list of ops who don't care that their bans are managed by others when they are away as long as a comment is not on the bantracker to the contrary, that is only editable by ops?15:56
ikoniaerrr a guess 1 hour15:56
jussi01ok, when does laura get off?15:56
ikoniajussi01: she should be home in about 50 minutes15:56
ikoniajrib: I have no problem with others dealing with my bans I normally try to comment in BT so unless something says "don't touch" or an obvious "issue" rather than a quick ban I have no problems15:57
Picijrib: Good idea, but I'm not sure where we'd put it.15:57
jussi01ikonia: excellent :)15:58
bazhangthe one ban I have can be removed at any time :)15:58
ikoniajrib: maybe a little push on use on the comments in BT would help15:59
PiciIndeed. 15:59
bazhanggood point15:59
* jussi01 doesnt mind anyone touching his bans - if they comeback and misbehave Ill just ban them a gain....15:59
jdongtouching his... oh.16:00
jussi01jdong: I knew that was coming if ypou were around!16:00
jribikonia: maybe bantracker could be made to grab the message from the kick or remove when a ban happens so that comments wouldn't require extra action16:00
* jussi01 slaps jdong16:00
ikoniajrib I thought it did that ?16:02
jussi01jrib: it has logs even...16:02
ikoniajrib: I see things like the "you should know better" message16:02
jribit doesn't grab my remove messages16:02
ikoniafor example I'm looking at the fryguy log now and can now see why he was banned16:02
jribjussi01: the logs when viewing a ban miss my removing16:02
jribikonia: why?16:02
ikoniajrib he was atad rude in #ubuntu, then acted like a total jerk for a good period of time when he was told off16:03
ikonia" a tad "16:03
jussi01define "a tad" ?16:04
ikoniajussi01 he made a few bad language moments16:04
ikoniathen instead of falling into line tried to mytre him self and make an episode out of it for an age16:04
jussi01oh bleh... I feel bad cause Ive only eaten candy all day...16:04
ikoniamartry16:04
ikoniajussi01: there is food in the house !"16:05
genii-aroundjussi01: Not expired Halloween candy I hope16:05
ikoniagenii-around: funny enough - yes16:05
ikoniathats the only candy I am aware of16:05
genii-aroundBleh16:05
jussi01no, I went to the humbug shop remember...16:05
jussi01ikonia: yeah, but Id rather wait till yu guys get here :D16:06
ikoniafair enough16:06
ikoniayou'll get well fed16:06
ikoniaI hope16:06
jussi01:D well I was _really_ well fed last night! (thanks again!)16:07
ikoniaha, no problem16:07
genii-aroundjussi01: Do you remember the link for running 3.5 on 8.10? It was given previously but did not bookmark it16:07
jussi01nope16:07
jussi01never seen it16:08
ikoniagenii-around: are the 3.5 packages offical or 3rd party ?16:08
jussi01genii-around: lookin your browser history16:08
genii-aroundjussi01: My browser clears out every time it closes16:08
jussi01ahhh16:08
genii-aroundikonia: Not sure. I forget who gave the link originally even. Maybe Pricechild or so16:09
PriceChildWasn't me.16:09
PriceChildI guess you don't think much of me.16:10
PiciDid anyone just hear something?16:10
jussi01heya PriceChild!!16:10
PriceChildallo16:10
PiciOH its PriceChild. Hi! :)16:10
genii-aroundHm16:12
jussi01hrm, does anyone take issue with this quit msg?16:13
jussi01[18:12:18] <-- Bsims (n=Bsims@c-98-212-79-240.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has quit (""It's time to light the candles... Its time to chant the rites... It's time to summon Satan on the Muppet Show tonight. "")16:13
Picihehe16:14
PiciI don't see an issue.16:14
jussi01:D I thought it was funny too, but understand it could cause offense in some quarters16:16
genii-aroundIt's no more offensive than !prayer16:23
naliothjussi01: was bsims a disruptive user?16:24
jussi01nalioth: no16:24
jussi01genii-around: shush! :D16:31
* genii-around shushes16:32
* jussi01 huggles genii-around. 16:32
jussi01I want to take him properly through the official ways first16:32
naliothactions speak louder than words16:36
PiciTheK: How can we help you today?16:38
TheKa problem with chatops, who think, they are legislative and executive....16:39
PriceChildTheK: which channel?16:40
TheK#ubuntu-de16:40
TheKyou get kicked for using away-nicks..16:40
PiciTheK: #ubuntu-irc is the proper place to discuss loco channel operations.  We only deal with the main #ubuntu channels here.16:41
TheKah, ok16:41
PiciAditionally, /msg ubottu away   we have the same policy here.16:41
jussi01ikonia: sitrep!!! :D :P ?17:01
PriceChildodd, canonical person applied to ubuntu-irc17:02
jussi01who?17:03
jussi01slap them :P17:03
jussi01hrm, that was weird...17:03
jpdsPriceChild: Appears to be in... several other teams.17:08
PriceChildjpds: hmm?17:08
PriceChildwhat've i gone and done now?17:08
genii-aroundjussi01: Hehe he must think we are ganingin up on him in #kubuntu17:09
genii-around*ganging17:09
jpdsPriceChild: Nevermind.17:09
jussi01we are :D17:09
* genii-around ponders "plop all"17:42
PiciI don't know either.17:42
Flannelfryguy wasn't told to "come back in 4 hours" merely to wait until I came back that night (which was in 4 hours), and then he didn't come back.17:48
Flannelbut, he was banned for the same reasons you saw today.  He was being anti-helpful in #ubuntu, and then got smart when talked to about it.  (And actually, this isn't the first time, I had a run in with him like a year ago that went down more or less the same way)17:51
FlannelYou say "Don't give bad information" (or whatever the issue of the day is), and then he basically says "alright, so what information can I give?" and then basically expects a line-for-line approval/veto17:52
FlannelWhich, is not because he's incapable, only because he's trying to be difficult17:53
FlannelHe was banned (should've been a banforward, looking back) so we could discuss his attitude on the record, instead of in a query, and didn't come back that night, and has waited until this morning to try again.  I'd be fine unbanning him, and sticking him on my notify list to invite him here next time he's around.  Any thoughts?17:56
ikoniaI don't see a reason to let that sot of attitude back into a busy channel17:58
FlannelIts only attitude in a query, luckily enough, so its not disruptive in the channel.17:58
ikoniaI read the log of the conversation with nalioth and saw his attitude in here17:58
ikoniaFlannel: it was attitude for nalioth read the logs in bt17:59
FlannelAlthough, I suppose that means he knows its a problem17:59
FlannelI'll take a look17:59
ikoniahis question  that he was trying to ask in here was nonsense18:00
ikoniastarted off as  wanted help with ubutu, then became gnome specific when offered #kubuntu, then become gnome/ubuntu specific when offered ##linux then became a none serious patching issues when he was offered a development channel18:00
ikoniahe was just making up q situation to /need/ #ubuntu so he could be a hero again and woe is him, he helps you know....etc18:01
Flannelyeah, he's a "I help so the rules don't apply" sort of guy18:01
ikoniaas a public FYI: the user qstnn who was in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic ranting about how open source software is rubbish because of the developers not being paid (trolling) and then in vbox is actually the user brutefoce or brutefrce who was also a problem, so he can be added to the alias nick18:04
jussi01ikonia: where are you?18:04
ikoniastuck on a train18:05
jussi01:/18:05
ikoniaby swindon18:05
ikoniasame place I got stuck last night18:05
fryguyhas anyone talked to flannel yet?19:08
Flannelfryguy: they have, although its obviously moot.19:21
fryguyoh nice, you are acknowledging me19:22
fryguycan you elaborate please19:23
FlannelIts moot because I'm here.  And I've never not acknowledged you.  You were told to come back when I got back that evening (which was approx 4 hours) and you never did.19:24
Flannelbut, that's not really that important.  You aren't being ignored, you just showed no additional interest in handling your ban until this morning.19:24
fryguyit was 4 hours and 21 minutes, and I did message you19:25
fryguywhat you chose to do with that message, I have no idea19:25
PriceChildFlannel: I don't think it is fair to tell someone to come back several hours later. "any time after 4 hours from now" would be ok i think19:25
FlannelPriceChild: No, it was just "When I get back" which was approx 4 hours.  So, any time after that would've been fine.19:26
FlannelPriceChild: He asked when I was away, and I had mentioned I'd be back after a few hours, which is exactly what they told him.19:26
Flannel"You'll have to talk to Flannel, he'll be back in 4 hours"19:26
fryguyand is exactly the course of action i took19:26
fryguywhat you chose to do with that message, I have no idea19:26
fryguyi would like to reiterate that I dont' appreciate being banned from an official support channel for actions that occured in a private message, outside all scope of ubuntu as an official entity19:27
Flannelfryguy: Your conduct in a query in regards to behavior in an ubuntu channel is relevant, I fail to see how it shouldn't be.19:28
fryguyactions taken in regards to a channel should be in respect to actions taken IN the channel, not because you disagreed with an argument I presented to you in a personal message19:30
fryguynevertheless, I have several issues that I need to get resolved due to an upgrade so I can get back to work19:31
fryguyis that going to be made possible?19:31
Flannelfryguy: this has nothing to do with a personal disagreement.  Everything to do with you following the channel guidelines.19:31
Flannelfryguy: And if you'll agree to follow them (which includes not giving out bad information), I'd be willing to lift your ban, yes.19:31
fryguyso, you ban everyone from the channel who provides a google link for between 4 hours and 6 days? Interesting...19:34
FlannelIf you're having trouble finding them: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct19:34
fryguywell aware of the guidelines and conduct.  I would gladly question some of the points with regards to your behavior as well if you want.  Outside of the scope of this channel though, PM me if you want to discuss how I feel you failed at 2-3 of those.19:35
FlannelI initially banned you because at the time I felt you could not be trusted to behave in #ubuntu, and would like to have a chat with you before you were let back in.  I fully admit it should have been a foward to this channel.  And the timing was poor in that I did have to leave for a few hours.19:36
fryguyand then you ignored my query when you did return19:36
FlannelBut you were told that, and you showed no interest in removing the ban until earlier today, but again, this is ancillary to the ban itself.19:37
fryguyhow is querying you about the ban equalivalent to "showed no interest?"  What else would you have liked me to do19:37
fryguynevertheless, I have several issues that I need to get resolved due to an upgrade so I can get back to work19:37
fryguyis that going to be made possible?19:37
Flannelfryguy: You should have come back here, this is the channel for operator related issues.  You queried me two minutes after I left (and then came here and were told to wait until I got back)19:38
Flannelfryguy: Do you understand and agree to follow the channel guidelines?19:38
fryguyi've always understood them, and gotten clarification on how to use them, which I've already explained to you, why must we have this same conversation again?  I don't feel like rehashing this again, especially in a "more public than PM" atmosphere19:40
jribit's a yes or no question19:41
fryguyand i gave a yes or no error with qualifications19:41
jribfryguy: so you agree to follow the channel guidelines?19:42
Flannelfryguy: Just an FYI, this channel has no one but ops (and you) in it, and is the place to go for operator questions/issues/complaints/etc.19:42
fryguyI agree to do my best to, they seem to be a bit of a moving target at times19:42
Flannelfryguy: You're welcome in #ubuntu again19:45
fryguycan i request a clarification of the ircguidelines.  More specifically an amendment: Do not post help-related links in the channel that aren't urls within the Ubuntu domain, or links that are directly linked to from the ubuntu domain19:47
fryguyshould help clarify completely what help-related sources are allowed and what aren't19:47
fryguythanks19:47
Flannelsigh.19:48
jribheh.  I guess his plan was to annoy until he was unbanned?19:48
Flanneljrib: I'm unbanning him and assuming he'll troll again soon enough.19:48
* Flannel notes he's still not in #ubuntu19:49
PiciSometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.19:49
FlannelThe original problem (this time around) was posting google links which basically were straight googles of the question the people asked.19:49
* Myrtti has done penance today19:49
MyrttiI posted a sync request19:50
MyrttiI needs a hug19:50
FlannelWhich, besides being annoying, unhelpful, and offputting, is also dangerous.  Since some of those googles have bad information on front page links.19:50
* Pici hugs Myrtti 19:50
PiciFlannel: I don't think we should have a rule against posting offsite links, but rather asking people to not post them when it seems to be obvious that all they are doing is googling for the answers.19:51
FlannelPici: No, it had nothing to do with them being offsite,19:51
FlannelIt had everything to do with "How do I install LAMP?" having a third hit of installing xamp from a tarball19:52
PiciFlannel: eww19:52
FlannelPici: Yeah, which, *I* know not to do, but him posting a straight google is stupid, when we have plenty of on-site links to solve it19:52
FlannelPici: and then while I was talking about it, I first told him "don't post unsafe links", which he replied "my links were all safe!" so then I asked if he verified every single google result on (even just) the first page, and he said he did, which is false.19:53
FlannelAnd then I told him that if can't make a decision on his own about safe vs non-safe (which I know he can, he just chooses not to) then he should only post links from help.ubuntu.com and the factoids19:54
FlannelAnd then he responds with more "what ifs" and I'm done playing his game, since I did already back in July with a similar matter.19:54
nalioth'time sink trolling' - gotta love it19:55
FlannelPici: so, no, I *never* suggested we change the policy to only allow our own web pages, and I'd never be that naive.  He's just being melodramatic.19:59
PiciFlannel: I guess I misread then.19:59
FlannelPici: Nah, He suggested it because thats what I told him he should restrict himself to if he's "incapable" of determining validity of links.20:00
Myrttihas anyone looked at the /whois of the visitor in -women?20:04
MyrttiI just did20:04
MyrttiI wish I hadn't20:04
mneptokMyrtti: i don't want to /join just to get the nick.20:29
* mneptok is not -women, and has no business there other than snooping20:29
fryguy15:33:03     Hikefu| fryguy, I don't know how to do that, but you can google it.20:32
fryguyplease take care of this, thank you20:32
naliothpot calling kettle black?20:33
ikoniathis is going to go on and on with him20:35
ikoniaI disagree he should have been let back on, mostly based on the episode with nalioth 20:35
jussi01does anyone know what the gnome network manager package is called?20:55
LjLjussi01: network-manager-gnome i would suspect20:56
jussi01!info network-manager-gnome20:57
ubottunetwork-manager-gnome (source: network-manager-applet): network management framework (GNOME frontend). In component main, is optional. Version 0.7~~svn20081020t000444-0ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 289 kB, installed size 2712 kB20:57
jussi01thanks LjL!20:58
* genii-around sips21:21
* mneptok pools in a corner21:30
* genii-around sinks the 8-ball in the corner21:56
Flannelikonia: I'd be fine re-banning him22:01
naliothnot until he does something that warrants it22:01
FlannelI assume there'll be something, and more or less soon too. Which is why I didn't press him harder re: unbanning.22:02
genii-aroundBah. Latched onto wrong wap23:16
mneptokgenii-around: that can get you arrested in some socially conservative circle.23:54
mneptok*circles.23:55
genii-around?23:55
mneptoklatching onto the wrong WAP.23:55
genii-aroundmneptok: Ah, yes23:55
genii-aroundmneptok: It's my neighbour. We share back and forth so no big deal23:56
PiciKinky23:56
genii-aroundPici: We each have file servers and drop stuff off to each other that way23:57
mneptok"swinging couples," 21st century style23:58
PiciSounds like it..23:58
genii-aroundI think you guys need to get out more ;)23:59
Piciprobably... :(23:59

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