[15:11] <Turl> hi newz2000, I saw firefox's index is fixed :)
[15:12] <newz2000> hi Turl, yes, I noticed it yesterday
[15:12] <newz2000> it was actually published last week (thursday or friday) so I'm surprised it took so long
[15:12] <newz2000> I think it was due to our aggressive caching during the release period
[15:13] <Turl> I still wonder why sometimes, when I open firefox, another ubuntu page loads
[15:14] <newz2000> it's the offline start page for when no network connection is detected
[15:14] <Turl> but I have connection :p
[15:15] <newz2000> is it the page that looks kind of gold coloured at the top?
[15:15] <Turl> it's one that talks about ubuntu and has links for the community and similar
[15:15] <Turl> chrome://ubufox/... or sth similar is the url
[15:15] <newz2000> this? http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/
[15:15] <newz2000> oh
[15:16] <newz2000> chrome://... is the offline start page
[15:16] <Turl> not that one
[15:16] <Turl> strange then
[15:16] <newz2000> the test is very simple, it looks for a response to  acertain website within a certain short period, and if the website doesn't respond quick enough it gives you the offline page
[15:16] <Turl> maybe it's 'cause I use wifi? :p
[15:16] <Turl> what site, btw?
[15:16] <newz2000> I think start.ubuntu.com
[15:18] <Turl> btw, I have an idea for the download page, to simplify it a bit without much recoding
[15:18] <Turl> it's a meantime solution, lets say
[15:18]  * newz2000 is eager to hear
[15:19] <Turl> you could group the mirrors in countries, like aaa.com, bbb.com and ccc.com are from USA and aaa.com.ar bbb.com.ar are from Argentina
[15:19] <Turl> and then show a list of the available countries
[15:19] <Turl> so the user just chooses his/her country, or one nearby
[15:20] <newz2000> that is a good idea
[15:20] <newz2000> That would make the list far simpler and shorter
[15:21] <Turl> you should put a notice however, that the country is needed for mirror selection (well, use more "simple" words, people don't even need to know what a mirror is), because if not some paranoid people might think you are gathering info, spying on them or sth.
[15:22] <newz2000> yeah, there's been a lot of debate on the "correct" amount of text.
[15:22] <newz2000> we decided to have very little this tiem around
[15:23] <newz2000> right now it says, "Choose a download location near you" Can you suggest better wording to replace or add to that?
[15:25] <Turl> mhm, you could write "Choose your country (or one nearby) to download from" if you implement the country list system
[15:27] <Turl> I'm not a native speaker nor have any high degree in English, so I'm surely not the best person to have a thought on that
[15:27] <newz2000> I understand, I just was curious the keywords you felt were lacking
[15:28] <newz2000> so switching to a coutntry based system and communicating to people that they need to choose a country is your goal.
[15:28] <newz2000> I think that's a very good idea.
[15:28] <newz2000> Maybe "Download from a country near you."
[15:28] <Turl> that sounds good
[15:28] <newz2000> There are a lot of countries not in the list so many people will have to choose a nearby country.
[15:29] <Turl> maybe highlight the fact that downloading from a nearby country is faster?
[15:29] <newz2000> ah, good suggestion
[15:29] <newz2000> Very good suggestion
[15:30] <Turl> "Download faster from a country near you." doesn't sound good though. maybe include it in another paragraph on the right/under the list, or in a tooltip?
[15:30] <newz2000> Turl: in South America, if your country wasn't chosen what would you do, choose from a neighbor or choose from USA?
[15:30] <newz2000> say Peru or Brazil, or USA?
[15:31] <Turl> I have experience downloading from neighbour countries, so I'd choose USA. Usually latin american countries have low-bandwith connections.
[15:32] <newz2000> that's what I thought
[15:32] <newz2000> That's so hard to communicate and the impact can be quite severe (so I've heard)
[15:32] <Turl> and if there was an option to download from europe, I'd do that either.
[15:32] <newz2000> you would or would not do that?
[15:33] <Turl> instead, sorry :p
[15:33] <newz2000> ah, interesting... europe is faster than USA for you?
[15:33] <Turl> yep, I think there's a direct network link from america-europe?
[15:34] <Turl> well, all of them download the same if you use a download manager though :p
[15:36] <newz2000> Latin America and Africa are two very odd places when calculating downloads. For Africa the rules are easy (choose Europe) because there are fewer people downloading and there just isn't a logical choice unless you're in south africa.
[15:36] <newz2000> Latin america however has tons of Ubuntu users and interest and the rules for ideal bandwidth seem to be very complex
[15:36] <Turl> there's a site that shows the world traffic
[15:37] <Turl> here http://www.internettrafficreport.com/
[15:38] <newz2000> very interesting stuff
[15:40] <Turl> you see, we have very low packet loss :p http://www.internettrafficreport.com/samerica.htm
[15:41] <newz2000> I see
[15:41] <Turl> quite high in North America http://www.internettrafficreport.com/namerica.htm :O
[17:17] <huayra> hello everyone
[17:17] <huayra> newz2000, I need some advice :)
[17:17] <newz2000> hey huayra
[17:17] <huayra> SpreadUbuntu went life with 0.1
[17:17] <huayra> and we have been having performance problems
[17:18] <huayra> http://ubuntu.ec/su/drupal5/
[17:18] <AliTabuger7> his server is maxed out on both RAM and swap
[17:18] <huayra> hard reboot every 12 hours is not the idea of my ideal site
[17:18] <huayra> so, we want to make some performance tweaks
[17:18] <huayra> and see how that goes
[17:18] <huayra> that's why we are here :)
[17:18] <huayra> so, the info:
[17:19] <huayra> The server is hosting 2 drupal instances and 2 other sites (little to none traffic in all of them besides SpreadUbuntu)
[17:19] <AliTabuger7> it's 256 mb of ram, and 512 of swap. I believe that adding more swap will help performance in the short run. Having 0 available memory cripples the system. Of course this would have to be coupled with ways to reduce memory usage.
[17:20] <huayra> I made a report for 30 seconds ago with webalizer so you can see the load, visits, etc
[17:20] <huayra> http://ubuntu.ec/webalizer/
[17:21] <huayra> For november specifically: http://ubuntu.ec/webalizer/usage_200811.html
[17:23] <huayra> so, what can we do to improve our performance?
[17:26] <huayra> and the server runs of course ubuntu :)
[17:46] <newz2000> huayra: so the site is running slow?
[17:46] <newz2000> (sorry for delay, I was focused on another task and didn't see the conversation window)
[17:46] <huayra> not now, but when there is too much load it takes ages to get the page up
[17:46] <huayra> but the server never dies(tm), but in practice it does :(
[17:47] <huayra> (it's ok :))
[17:47] <newz2000> right
[17:47] <newz2000> do you know if you are using the mpm worker module or the mpm prefork module for apache?
[17:48] <huayra> let me check
[17:49] <huayra> I should see that in apache.conf right?
[17:49] <huayra> apache2.conf
[17:49] <newz2000> just a moment
[17:56] <huayra> ok
[17:56] <newz2000> huayra: ok, I'm avail
[17:57] <huayra> good :)
[17:57] <newz2000> I'm not sure how to tell which mpm module is enabled
[17:57] <huayra> where can it e seen?
[17:57] <huayra> I am sure i have seen it somewhere
[17:57] <newz2000> There is probably a package installed, apache2-mpm-(something)
[17:57] <newz2000> or something like that
[17:58] <newz2000> dpkg -l apache2-mpm*
[17:58] <newz2000> (that's a little L)
[17:58] <newz2000> that will list the modules, the installed one will have a version number listed
[17:59] <huayra> prefork
[17:59] <huayra> I'm in aptitude
[17:59] <huayra> ;)
[18:00] <newz2000> ok, now look in /etc/apach2/apache2.conf
[18:00] <newz2000> scroll down to the preform mpm section
[18:00] <huayra> want the dump?
[18:00] <newz2000> no
[18:00] <newz2000> what is max_clients set to?
[18:01] <huayra> 50
[18:01] <huayra> I did change that to 25, but in worker MPM, not prefork :(
[18:01] <huayra> shall I put a different value there?
[18:01] <newz2000> I'm looking at the stats you linked to
[18:01] <newz2000> I see a huge spike on Nov 10th
[18:02] <newz2000> was that a period when your server was overwhelmed?
[18:02] <huayra> it may have been
[18:03] <huayra> we released yesterday and announced to all LoCo teams, marketing people and I posted it in the planet
[18:03] <huayra> so I guess it may have something to do with that
[18:03] <newz2000> is it possible for you to run webalizer on just the log file from the 10th?
[18:03] <huayra> the server went down yesterday at about 18.00 UTC
[18:03] <huayra> and tonight at 00.30 UTC
[18:04] <huayra> I guess so, but I have only one file.
[18:04] <huayra> :|
[18:04] <newz2000> Just do a grep to get the lines out from the 10th into a new log file and then run it on that
[18:04] <huayra> I did see though in the errors log that the max_clients value was reached
[18:05] <newz2000> I'm trying to figure out if we're barking up the wrong tree
[18:05] <newz2000> the numbers you're hitting are lower than I'd expect to be crushing your server
[18:08] <huayra> there it is
[18:08] <huayra> http://ubuntu.ec/webalizer/
[18:09] <huayra> just the 10th
[18:09] <huayra> I have made a file for the 11th too if you want to see
[18:09] <newz2000> 5600 hits per hour was your peak on the 10th. That's pretty low. :-/
[18:10] <newz2000> Its busy, don't get me wrong
[18:10] <newz2000> but a modern server can handle more than 1.5 hits/sec usually
[18:10] <huayra> it's ok
[18:10] <huayra> it may be something else
[18:10] <newz2000> so you're hitting swap when the load goes up?
[18:10] <huayra> yes
[18:11] <huayra> it uses up ALL resources
[18:11] <huayra> and bye
[18:11] <huayra> want to see the log for the 11th just to see what caused it to fall the last time?
[18:11] <newz2000> sure
[18:12] <huayra> see the webalizer overview now
[18:12] <newz2000> not as high as the peak on the 10th
[18:13] <huayra> ok
[18:14] <huayra> mmm, I have put drupal to make a cache every hour
[18:14] <newz2000> what's your site's url again?
[18:14] <huayra> http://ubuntu.ec/su/drupal5/the message I almost always
[18:14] <huayra> http://ubuntu.ec/su/drupal5/
[18:14] <huayra> sorry
[18:16] <newz2000> whenever I try to go to SpreadUbuntu.com It sends me to ubuntu.com
[18:16] <huayra> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/70603/
[18:17] <huayra> yeah, spreadubuntu.com is not our URL yet
[18:17] <huayra> we must have the code ready
[18:17] <huayra> and then we can ask for the DNS redirection
[18:17] <newz2000> ok, I see a big prob
[18:17] <newz2000> you're using drupal to server static files
[18:17] <huayra> right now it is only a test site
[18:17] <newz2000> for example this url: http://ubuntu.ec/su/drupal5/?q=en/system/files/imagecache/-t64/Poster_English_Ubuntu_export_version_openversion_smalljpeg[1].jpg
[18:18] <huayra> yes
[18:19] <huayra> what shall we do?
[18:19] <huayra> no 1 hour cache?
[18:20] <newz2000> there is a setting in drupal that lets you serve the files directly instead of via drupal
[18:20] <huayra> yes, let me check
[18:20] <huayra> oh, but then we cannot count them...
[18:20] <newz2000> true
[18:21] <newz2000> unless you use webalizer
[18:22] <huayra> ok
[18:22] <newz2000> The other option is to add more ram
[18:22] <newz2000> that will help a lot
[18:23] <huayra> 512 will be enough you think?
[18:23] <newz2000> It will help a lot.
[18:23] <huayra> good answer ;)
[18:23] <newz2000> The other option is to turn off the bells and whistles. I think that would help a lot too but then you lose functionality
[18:24] <huayra> yeah, the ells and whistles are alpha and omega in a marketing site ;)
[18:24] <huayra> but maybe just sing public access for files in general would make a big difference
[18:24] <huayra> Download method:
[18:24] <huayra> Public - files are available using HTTP directly.
[18:24] <huayra> Private - files are transferred by Drupal.
[18:25] <huayra> this is what you mean, right?
[18:25] <newz2000> yes, correct
[18:25] <huayra> I think I will try that
[18:25] <huayra> I can't stand seeing the site go down again
[18:25] <huayra> but if I activate the option again, the it regains the possibility to count the downloads, right?
[18:26] <huayra> is prefork a good choice?
[18:26] <huayra> and all the options as shown above?
[18:28] <huayra> ok newz2000 thanks for your time
[18:28] <huayra> we did remove all kind of stuff we don't use
[18:28] <huayra> modules and things like that
[18:29] <huayra> let's hope it turns out to work :)
[18:29] <newz2000> I think you need the option you have (prefork). It's not ideal but is needed for php