[01:01] <BrickHaus> awfully quite in here..
[01:02] <BrickHaus> shhh..  "Masters of the Universe" need their rest too. :D
[01:49] <tonyyarusso> So who do I bribe to get a backport looked at?  :P
[01:50] <binarymutant> whats the correct way to do this? XS-Python-Version: >=2.3
[01:57] <binarymutant> make: python2.4: Command not found, but I followed the guidelines I think, it says XS-Python-Version: >= X.Y in the debian packaging policy
[02:02] <ScottK> FrankH: To answer your question: Eclipse is a painful package to work with and no one has volunteered to actually do the work to update it.
[02:03] <ScottK> binarymutant: What python package does your package build-depend on?
[02:03] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: Bug number?
[02:03] <binarymutant> it depends on python 2.3 or greater
[02:03] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: Bug #293292, which depends on Bug #268602 being done first.
[02:04] <ScottK> binarymutant: Do you have a Debian package of this or are you trying to install something from source/package it yourself?
[02:05] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: Look at the bzr rdepends and consider it needs some testing.  jdong was planning on looking at it.
[02:05] <binarymutant> ScottK, myself
[02:06] <ScottK> binarymutant: OK, In addition to the XS-Python-Version: (what you have is correct if you are using python-central) you alse need to have python-all in your build-dep.
[02:06] <ScottK> It'd be python-all (>=2.3)
[02:06] <binarymutant> ScottK, instead of python (>=2.3)?
[02:07] <ScottK> Yes. That just gives you the default version (2.4), not all supported versions (2.4 and 2.5)
[02:08] <ScottK> err default version = 2.5 (sorry)
[02:08] <binarymutant> ScottK, ok, but I'm getting this error now Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting. :/
[02:08] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: Is there anything I can do to help things along, not being particular skilled in these things?
[02:09] <ScottK> binarymutant: Then you need to install python-all
[02:09] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: Talk to jdong.
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: will do - good UTC time for that, or e-mail?
[02:10] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: also, if you know of any people who are good with figuring out segfaults and have some spare time, point them to my latest Planet post - kompozer needs attention beyond my abilities as well.
[02:10] <ScottK> He's often around here.  He lives in -0500, but he's also a college student so who knows when he'll be awake.
[02:11] <jdong> heh takes a parent to know sleep schedules of those crazy college kids, huh :)
[02:11] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: I'd suggest asking in #ubuntu-mozillateam since it's based on Mozilla code.
[02:11] <ScottK> jdong: Nope.  Mine aren't quite that old yet.  It takes remembering being in college.
[02:11] <binarymutant> ScottK, thanks :) Will other people that use this .deb have to have python2.4 installed too?
[02:11] <jdong> tonyyarusso: I spoke with #bzr on Friday and last I followed up they were still getting everything into debian experimental and synced into Jaunty
[02:11] <tonyyarusso> yeah, it's a bit dead there the last few days - will try again in a bit.
[02:12] <tonyyarusso> jdong: ah, so probably a low priority for a few weeks yet I take it.
[02:12] <jdong> at the very least I'd like to have complete bzr, bzr-rebase, bzrtools, bzr-gtk, and bzr-svn
[02:12] <jdong> if those are all compatible and good to go in Jaunty then I'm all for a backport
[02:12] <jdong> AFAIK right now that is not the case
[02:12] <ScottK> binarymutant: It depends a bit on the package.  If it's a python C extension, then it will end up requiring both python versions.  If it's pure Python, it won't.
[02:13] <binarymutant> Cool thanks for the help ScottK
[02:13] <tonyyarusso> jdong: all right, well keep me posted and let me know if there's any stupid grunt work.
[02:13] <jdong> tonyyarusso: will do :)
[02:13] <FrankH> binarymutant:  ditto. thanx for the info scottk
[02:13] <jdong> tonyyarusso: kick me by the weekend to follow up if I forget through my tests tomorrow and thursday :)
[02:14] <tonyyarusso> jdong: all righty
[02:14] <ScottK> FrankH and binarymutant: You're welcome.
[02:20] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: The public library in the county I live in uses Ubuntu Hardy on their systems provided for library patrons and Kompozer is in their install.
[02:20] <ScottK> Thought you'd like to know.
[02:22] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: I would, yes.  Thanks.
[02:41] <binarymutant> do I need to make an ITP bug in launchpad like debian's BTS?
[02:48] <toabctl> hi all
[03:14] <ScottK> binarymutant: Yes.  It's called needs-packaging in Ubuntu.
[04:36] <binarymutant> ScottK, thanks :)
[04:37] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[04:38]  * NCommander yawns
[04:46] <persia> zul ?
[05:21] <binarymutant> what should I put in the changelog file for distribution? I've tried jaunty, intrepid, and ubuntu
[05:21] <ScottK> jaunty
[05:21] <ScottK> Lintian will complain because it doesn't know about it yet.
[05:22] <binarymutant> do you compile lintian from source?
[05:22] <stefanlsd> Does anyone mind giving some advice about a merge - #296648
[05:23] <ScottK> No.  I just ignore the error until it gets fixed.
[05:23] <stefanlsd> heh - bug #296648
[05:24] <binarymutant> thanks again :)
[05:24] <stefanlsd> Re the comment to close the other bug. It was mentioned that i should put in in the changelog for the merge, but that wasnt my change, and wasnt carried across as an outstanding ubuntu change.
[05:26] <stefanlsd> it was closed, and we could close the ubuntu bug with it, although im not sure it goes in the changelog - might be confusing just the entry? I could go close the bug manually when package is published. so i guess, should it be in the changelog or not :)
[05:42] <binarymutant> I've uploaded my package to revu but how long until I see it on the site? It's been a while now :/
[05:52] <StevenK> Hmmm. ENORAOF
[05:53] <ajmitch> you need to hunt him down?
[05:54] <StevenK> No, wanted to ask him a dorky Gnome Do question
[05:57]  * wgrant cries about the book meme flooding his liferea.
[05:59]  * ScottK considered posting about a "Don't do the meme" meme, but is going to bed instead.
[06:03] <LaserJock> wgrant: I had a good one from my Laser Spectroscopy book
[06:03] <LaserJock> I found out how to do LaTeX in wordpress.com
[06:03] <wgrant> I'm not sure which is the closest book to me right now, but two that have come up on Planet so far are about tied for closest.
[06:04] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't come up ...
[06:04] <wgrant> Heh.
[06:05] <StevenK> There are two closest books to me -- The Mad Ship, by Robin Hobb and Tangled Webs, by Anne Bishop
[06:05] <LaserJock> I've got Laser Spectroscopy, Bible, Philosopher's Handbook
[06:06] <StevenK> Oooh. The fifth sentence on page 56 of Tangled Webs is good.
[06:06] <LaserJock> I don't know *any* of the books so far
[06:06] <Flannel> "The latter component is undesirable and is a result of the nonlinear transfer characteristic of the amplifier." -- Microelectronic Circuits, Sedra and Smith.
[06:06] <ajmitch> the closest book to me when reading planet earlier was a plone book, which I'm sure is NSFW
[06:06] <wgrant> ajmitch: Hahaha.
[06:07] <StevenK> "Since he'd spent the past few years teaching her how to defend herself with objects she would normally have at hand, he was looking at a pissed-off woman whose hands were full of potential weapons."
[06:07]  * Flannel has no blag.
[06:07] <wgrant> StevenK: You need a blog noww.
[06:07] <wgrant> -w
[06:07] <StevenK> Do not
[06:07] <ajmitch> StevenK: resist
[06:07] <StevenK> I do not need a blog, or facebook, or myspace or any other time sinks
[06:08] <ajmitch> no, for you have WoW :)
[06:08] <LaserJock> I have a facebook thingy I think
[06:08] <StevenK> ajmitch: Shush :-P
[06:08] <ajmitch> it only took about 18 hours to get servers back after maintenance today :)
[06:08] <StevenK> I heard
[06:08]  * wgrant fell into Facebook a month or two ago :(
[06:08] <wgrant> But I am so far blogless and MySpaceless.
[06:09] <LaserJock> I won't touch MySpace with a ten-foot pole
[06:09] <wgrant> Neitherr.
[06:09] <LaserJock> I don't even get what facebook is for
[06:09] <ajmitch> wasting time
[06:09] <LaserJock> LinkedIn at least seems to have some usefulness
[06:09] <wgrant> Facebook seems to be for wasting time.
[06:09] <wgrant> Yes.
[06:09] <wgrant> Ah yes, I have a LinkedIn account too.
[06:10]  * ajmitch has an account there
[06:10] <LaserJock> I have a twitter and identi.ca account
[06:10] <LaserJock> but that's a *real* time waster
[06:10]  * wgrant doesn't.
[06:10] <wgrant> I have a Launchpad account.
[06:10] <LaserJock> almost as bad as IRC ;-)
[06:10] <ajmitch> I'm glad I don't
[06:10]  * ajmitch looks on linkedin
[06:10] <StevenK> wgrant: Why did you give in for Facebook? :-)
[06:11] <wgrant> StevenK: I don't remember. Somebody managed to convince me it was a good idea.
[06:14] <ajmitch> heh, more WoW screwups, free gear this time
[06:14] <wgrant> ajmitch: What happened?
[06:14] <wgrant> And how many people died because of it?
[06:15] <ajmitch> well they just had an overly long maintenance period where they lost everyone's in-game mail
[06:15] <wgrant> Ah.
[06:15] <ajmitch> and currently some of the pvp gear costs nothing, so people are swarming the vendors to get it
[06:15] <ajmitch> heads will roll
[06:15] <wgrant> Terrible.
[06:15] <ajmitch> expansion release is tomorrow
[06:16]  * StevenK can't wait
[06:16] <ajmitch> this amount of instability & screwups doesn't bode well
[06:16] <StevenK> Indeed
[06:17] <StevenK> It's been unstable since patch 3.0.2
[06:17] <ajmitch> there are a few bugs about it in wine's bugzilla
[06:17] <ajmitch> like the abysmal graphics performance many people are getting
[06:17]  * StevenK adds "Me too"
[06:18] <StevenK> Only during boss fights. Which you know, helps
[06:18] <ajmitch> yeah
[06:18] <ajmitch> it really helps when I'm the main tank & getting 2-4 FPS
[06:18] <stefanlsd> 3.0.3 runs nicely on wine for me
[06:18]  * wgrant has no idea about WoW whatsoever.
[06:18] <StevenK> stefanlsd: Do you raid?
[06:18] <ajmitch> you're one of the lucky ones :)
[06:19] <stefanlsd> StevenK: ok, no.   not that hardcore :)
[06:19] <ajmitch> it mostly works well for me, but I get pretty much all the symptoms from http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15925
[06:19]  * StevenK looks
[06:19] <ajmitch> oh thanks ubottu :P
[06:20] <wgrant> ajmitch: That template text is rather bland, yes.
[06:21] <StevenK> Hmph. No workaround or anything
[06:21] <wgrant> StevenK: Yes there is... Play Ubuntu instead.
[06:22] <ajmitch> there are some mentioned, like disabling pixel shaders in winecfg
[06:22] <StevenK> I do that during work time
[06:22] <ajmitch> but I haven't noticed a difference yet
[06:23] <StevenK> wgrant: WoW is fun.
[06:25] <anlmal> Ne, vladiko, ako Boga znadeš!
[06:25] <anlmal> Kakva te je spopala nesreća
[06:25] <anlmal> teno kukaš kao kukavica
[06:25] <anlmal> i topiš se u srpske nesreće?
[06:25] <anlmal> Da li ovo svetkovanje nije
[06:25] <anlmal> na komu si sabra Crnogorce
[06:25] <anlmal> da čistimo zemlju od nekrsti?
[06:25] <anlmal> I bez toga ovo nam je slava,
[06:25] <anlmal> na koju se vrsni momci kupe
[06:25] <anlmal> sposobnosti svoje da kušaju,
[06:25] <anlmal> silu mišce i brzinu nogah;
[06:25] <anlmal> strijeljanjem da se nadmašaju
[06:25] <anlmal> i sječenjem u opkladu plećah;
[06:25] <anlmal> da slušaju božju leturđiju
[06:25] <anlmal> i da vode kolo oko crkve -
[06:25] <anlmal> da viteštvom prsa nabrecaju.
[06:25] <anlmal> To je tamjan sveti junacima,
[06:25] <anlmal> to gvozdeni srca u momcima!
[06:25] <anlmal> Turi takve razgovore crne!
[06:25] <anlmal> Ljudi trpe, a žene nariču;
[06:25] <anlmal> nema posla u plaha glavara!
[06:25] <anlmal> Ti nijesi samorana glava:
[06:25] <anlmal> vidiš ove pet stotin momčadi,
[06:25] <anlmal> koje čudo snage i lakoće
[06:25] <anlmal> u njih danas ovđe vidijesmo?
[06:25] <anlmal> Viđaše li kako strijeljaju,
[06:26] <anlmal> ka se grada vješto izigraše,
[06:26] <anlmal> kako hitro grabljahu kapice?
[06:26] <anlmal> Tek što vučad za majkom pomile,
[06:26] <anlmal> igrajuć se strašne zube svoje
[06:26] <anlmal> već umiju pod grlom ostriti;
[06:26] <anlmal> tek sokolu prvo perje nikne,
[06:26] <anlmal> on ne može više mirovati,
[06:26] <anlmal> nego svoje razmeće gnijezdo,
[06:26] <anlmal> grabeć slamku jednu i po jednu
[06:26] <anlmal> s njom put neba bježi cijučući.
[06:26] <anlmal> Sve je ovo nekakva nauka!
[06:26] <anlmal> Bez momčadi ove te su ovđe
[06:26] <anlmal> šest putah je jošt ovliko doma;
[06:26] <anlmal> njina sila, to je tvoja sila.
[06:26] <anlmal> Dokle Turci sve njih savladaju
[06:26] <anlmal> mnoge će se bule ocrniti;
[06:26] <anlmal> borbi našoj kraja biti neće
[06:26] <anlmal> do istrage turske ali naše...
[06:26] <anlmal> Nada nema pravo ni u koga
[06:26] <anlmal> do u Boga i u svoje ruke;
[06:26] <anlmal> nadanje se naše zakopalo
[06:26] <anlmal> na Kosovo u jednu grobnicu.
[06:26] <anlmal> U dobru je lako dobro biti,
[06:26] <anlmal> na muci se poznaju junaci!
[06:27] <stefanlsd> sigh
[06:27] <StevenK> stefanlsd: Agreed
[06:28]  * fabrice_sp agree
[06:28]  * ajmitch pokes Hobbsee 
[06:28] <StevenK> !ops
[06:31] <iulian> Huh, wth is that?
[06:32] <anlmal> When the venerable Metal look and feel for Swing first debuted, its main aesthetic competition was the Windows 95 interface. Given the state of graphical user interfaces a decade ago, Metal was an attractive and elegant alternative to the other common interfaces of the time.
[06:32] <anlmal> The updated Ocean theme in Java SE 5 helped to keep Metal a viable choice up to the present day, but it's time for Swing's cross-platform look and feel to get an overhaul.
[06:32] <anlmal> Enter the Nimbus Look and Feel. A brand new, modern look and feel based on Synth, Nimbus provides a polished look to applications which choose to use it. And because Nimbus is drawn entirely using Java 2D vector graphics, rather than static bitmaps, it's tiny (only 56KB!) and can be rendered at arbitrary resolutions.
[06:32] <anlmal> SwingSet3 in Metal
[06:32] <lifeless> elkbuntu: ping
[06:32] <anlmal> For compatibility reasons, Metal is still the default Swing look and feel, but updating applications to use Nimbus couldn't be simpler. It only takes a single line of code:
[06:32] <anlmal> UIManager.setLookAndFeel("com.sun.java.swing.plaf.nimbus.NimbusLookAndFeel");
[06:32]  * iulian rolls his eyes.
[06:32] <anlmal> You can also force Nimbus to be the default look and feel by specifying -Dswing.defaultlaf=com.sun.java.swing.plaf.nimbus.NimbusLookAndFeel. on the command line. A more permanent way to set the property is to add
[06:32] <anlmal> swing.defaultlaf=com.sun.java.swing.plaf.nimbus.NimbusLookAndFeel
[06:32] <anlmal> to the file <JAVA_HOME>/lib/swing.properties. You will have to create the swing.properties file if it does not already exist.
[06:32] <anlmal> For further reading about Nimbus, take a look at the Nimbus early access page.
[06:33]  * Hobbsee looks in
[06:33] <nickrud> yay!
[06:33] <iulian> Go Hobbsee Go!
[06:33] <Hobbsee> wow...
[06:33] <nellery> yay \o/
[06:33] <lifeless> thanks Hobbsee
[06:33] <stefanlsd> at least he could of pasted more interesting stuff to read
[06:34] <fabrice_sp> \o/ Hobbsee
[06:34] <lifeless> and how he's done a CTCP time check on me
[06:34] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: thank you
[06:34] <StevenK> I'm curious which language it was, though
[06:34] <lifeless> nordic
[06:34] <lifeless> russian perhaps
[06:35] <iulian> Turkish?
[06:35] <wgrant> Turkish is plausible.
[06:35] <iulian> I don't think is russian.
[06:35] <StevenK> Google says Serbian or Croatian
[06:35] <StevenK> I've got two different answers for two different lines
[06:39] <dholbach> good morning
[06:40] <ajmitch> hey dholbach
[06:41] <Hobbsee> morning dholbach
[06:41] <StevenK> I'm guessing Serbian. Google doesn't tell if you translate a web page
[06:41] <dholbach> hi ajmitch, hi Hobbsee
[06:41] <Hobbsee> hmm, chatzilla.  I'm surprised the guy didn't just flood out
[06:41] <StevenK> Or cause a SEGV
[07:00] <binarymutant> how do you get the 0ubuntu1.deb naming scheme to work with dput?
[07:08] <fabrice_sp> binarymutant: what do you mean?
[07:10] <binarymutant> don't you have to rename debs to something_1.2.9-0ubuntu1.deb?
[07:10] <StevenK> Depends on the circumstances
[07:11] <binarymutant> would I need to change the name of the deb to upload to revu?
[07:11] <ajmitch> you'd need to upload a source package to revu
[07:11] <fabrice_sp> binarymutant: for REVU, you don't upload a deb file
[07:12] <fabrice_sp> binarymutant: you upload a dsc file
[07:14] <binarymutant> so dput revu *.dsc ? not *.changes?
[07:15] <fabrice_sp> soirry: *_source.changes
[07:15] <fabrice_sp> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[07:15] <binarymutant> thanks for the info I was uploading the binary
[07:46] <geser> Guten Morgen dholbach, Hi ajmitch and Hobbsee
[07:46] <dholbach> hi geser
[07:53] <Hobbsee> heya geser
[07:54] <\sh> hmmm...why don't we have an opennms package...
[07:54] <StevenK> Isn't OpenNMS a big pig, and hard to install?
[07:54] <\sh> StevenK: nope
[07:55] <\sh> StevenK: the package on the opennms page are really simple...well, someone has to do some debian/ubuntu policy audit..but that shouldn't be that hard
[07:55] <\sh> StevenK: the only bad thing: it's java...but it
[07:55] <\sh> 's much faster then nagios
[07:56] <StevenK> How can java be faster? :-P
[07:56] <StevenK> Admitedly nagios' event handling is ... well, complete crap
[07:56] <\sh> StevenK: dunno...but it is;-)
[07:57] <\sh> and it has much more nicer features e.g. for on duty services..asset management (which is far from being complete..but a good start)
[08:02] <siretart> StevenK: just curious, what bugs you about nagios? I'm rather happy with it, but I havn't seen alternatives either...
[08:03] <StevenK> siretart: It's web interface is terrible, and it's alerting leaves a lot to be desired
[08:03] <siretart> like what?
[08:04] <StevenK> siretart: Sorry?
[08:05] <siretart> I don't really understand what you miss. possibly I just don't know what alternatives have to offer
[08:05] <siretart> I'm fairly happy with the email and jabber notifications
[08:08] <StevenK> siretart: I used and loathed nagios at $PREVIOUS_JOB. I don't have to care any more
[08:09] <siretart> I see
[08:10] <StevenK> siretart: We had it monitoring ~ 700 machines with over 5,600 discrete services, and it ran like a complete dog on an SMP Xeon
[08:15] <\sh> siretart: could be that the former colleagues here did a bad job installing nagios the wrong way...regarding automatic service discovery and running it in cluster mode...
[08:16]  * siretart didn't notice that nagios had some automatic service discovery or cluser mode feature
[08:16] <\sh> siretart: see, nagios doesn
[08:16] <\sh> 't have automatic discovery .. and cluster mode is more self made...,-)
[08:17] <siretart> StevenK: having looked a bit how nagios works, that story doesn't really surprise me. good that you don't need to care about that setup any more :)
[08:21] <stefanlsd> StevenK: do u know if it was v2 or v3?
[08:22] <StevenK> stefanlsd: 2
[08:22] <stefanlsd> StevenK: 3 has lots of improvements. maybe you'd have a different experience now
[08:22] <StevenK> stefanlsd: See above, I don't care any more :-)
[08:23] <stefanlsd> hehe
[08:23] <DktrKranz> wgrant: I tried to fix gcl FTBFS, but it fails to build for brk randomization in 2.6.27 kernels, I need to figure out the new fix.
[08:23] <wgrant> DktrKranz: Ah, lovely...
[08:23] <siretart> oh right. I haven't seen nagios2 at all.
[08:24]  * wgrant likes nagios3.
[08:24]  * soren just like nagios
[08:24] <DktrKranz> fixing gcl doesn't mean we fix rdepends, though. They need special care too
[08:24] <\sh> siretart: btw...do you know if sistopy or whoever is working on ghc6 merge?
[08:24] <wgrant> DktrKranz: The rdepends are less formidable than that abomination.
[08:24] <\sh> sistpoty ,-)
[08:26] <siretart> \sh: I hope he is busy with releasing faumachine :-)
[08:26] <\sh> siretart: *g* new gch6 needs to be injected into jaunty for new darcs
[08:26] <\sh> ghc6 even...*grmpf* too early this morning
[08:27]  * wgrant stabs darcs with bzr.
[08:27]  * StevenK has yet to use darcs
[08:28]  * \sh wants to roll out bzr @company as default VCS and REPO system...but it's hard to do that, when you have to deal with windows people only
[08:29] <\sh> old style thinking people are sometimes difficult
[08:33] <soren> \sh: I was under the impression bzr ran excellently on windows.
[08:34] <wgrant> soren: It does.
[08:34] <wgrant> Unlike git.
[08:34] <soren> There's even tortoisebzr.
[08:34] <wgrant> Yep.
[08:34] <wgrant> And it's not even dead.
[08:37]  * Hobbsee quickly kills it
[08:37] <Hobbsee> wasn't dead, anyway.
[08:42] <fargiolas> DktrKranz: ping
[08:56] <DktrKranz> fargiolas: pong
[08:57] <fargiolas> DktrKranz: hi, prefer english or italian? (about bug 222580)
[08:58] <DktrKranz> fargiolas: no problem with both of them (but Italian only for queries)
[08:59] <\sh> soren: it does...but the people are not willing to change ,-)
[09:00] <DktrKranz> fargiolas: I haven't a browser handy, but I remember that bug, need a sponsor?
[09:00] <fargiolas> DktrKranz: since I used intrepid for a while now I almost forgot about that bug, now I just bought a dell mini with hardy and I see it's yet to be fixed
[09:01] <fargiolas> DktrKranz: it's been quite some time it's out now, and jdong already said the fix was ok, why hasn't it been committed yet?
[09:02] <fargiolas> DktrKranz: I'm not an ubuntu dev :P I'm not really aware about the sponsorship mechanism
[09:03] <fargiolas> DktrKranz: actually that's the only debdiff I ever did
[09:03] <DktrKranz> fargiolas: usually SRUs are processed slower than other bugs, I can do it this evening. Mind subscribing me to the bug (just to make sure it falls on my radar)
[09:06] <fargiolas> DktrKranz: done, thank you :)
[09:07] <DktrKranz> "prego" ;)
[09:08] <fargiolas> DktrKranz: it's always a bit odd to talk in english with other italian guys :) grazie
[09:09] <DktrKranz> not so odd here ;)
[09:12] <\sh> yay...one bug fixed...more to go
[09:25] <\sh> ScottK: ping libdb cruft removal smtpguard still relies on libdb4.3 (as you are my postfix and clamav hero) do you want to deal with it?
[09:30] <huats> morning everyone
[09:30] <gouki> huats, morning :)
[09:31] <huats> hey gouki
[09:31] <huats> :)
[09:32] <stefanlsd> Does someone mind looking at: bug #296648
[09:32] <stefanlsd> Re the comment to close the other bug. It was mentioned that i should put in in the changelog for the merge, but that wasnt my change, and wasnt carried across as an outstanding ubuntu change.
[09:33] <stefanlsd> So should the merge autoclose another bug, or should that other bug be closed manually?
[09:38] <\sh> stefanlsd: merge already done...
[09:38] <\sh> stefanlsd: I saw the bug too late...
[09:38] <gouki> I'm getting a 'cannot create regular file '/usr/local/bin/name': Permission denied on pbuilder. Any ideas?
[09:38] <\sh> gouki: not the right $DESTDIR location for installation ...
[09:39] <stefanlsd> \sh: should the changelog have auto closed the other bug?
[09:39] <\sh> stefanlsd: to be more precise...I'm just working on getting rid the old libdb* dependencies...and jigdo had still libdb4.3-dev b-ds...so I took it when I realized too late that there was a merge of you pending.
[09:40] <\sh> stefanlsd: tbh..it could...but as said, I saw the bugs too late and didn't mention it...I'll close them manually now
[09:40] <gouki> \sh, mmm, OK. Thanks.
[09:40] <stefanlsd> \sh: you mentioned in the comment libdb4.4 was in control, but i dont see that in the debdiff?
[09:42] <stefanlsd> \sh: im just trying to work out, what is the *correct* thing to do in the changelog. Do we just mention that it has been upgraded to close the bug (although it wasnt something we did, it was done in debian change earlier), or do we just close the bug?
[09:42] <\sh> stefanlsd: the former version in intrepid had libdb4.4-dev in the b-d..and the new upstream package had it now corrected via NMU...(that's why I didn't see it in the first place)..as said, blame me ,-)
[09:42] <stefanlsd> aah, naa. ste*n's dont do stuff wrong :)
[09:43] <\sh> stefanlsd: well, bug #240490 could have been autoclosed during the merge with the (LP: #240490) tag attached to the debdiff yes...that would be the right thing to do :)
[09:46] <stefanlsd> \sh: oh ok. thanks. wasnt sure if we could do that as we actually didnt do anything except sync that change from debian which was already in the changelog.  but i guess it does make sense that we could of just said - Debian builds with libdb4.6 (LP: #240490) or something.
[09:46] <gouki> Is there a way of having debuild to automagically sign the files?
[09:46] <\sh> gouki: debuild -S
[09:47] <gouki> \sh, it will ask me for the passphrase. I wanted it to sign automatically. :)
[09:47] <soren> gpg-agent
[09:48] <\sh> gouki: ah...gpg-agent, seahorse...
[09:48] <gouki> Thank you.
[09:50] <gouki> I have the DESTDIR set to $(CURDIR)/debian/name install, but it still fails because of permissions.
[09:51] <gouki> Never mind. Think I found it :)
[09:55] <gouki> Ok, I haven't. Both /usr/local/bin and /usr/bin fail with permission denied. Ideas?
[09:57] <soren> What's the exact error message?
[09:58] <gouki> soren,  'cannot create regular file '/usr/local/bin/name': Permission denied' on pbuilder.
[09:59] <wgrant> gouki: You're not installing into DESTDIR.
[09:59] <wgrant> Your Makefile is probably broken.
[09:59] <gouki> wgrant, I was able to install it with the included Makefile. But that doesn't mean anything, does it?
[09:59] <wgrant> No.
[10:05] <gouki> Relevant pbuilder output is here, in case anyone wants to take a look: http://paste.ubuntu.com/70859
[10:06] <gouki> As for he Makefile: http://paste.ubuntu.com/70860
[10:06] <soren> I somehow doubt that's the real makefile..
[10:06] <soren> It reads:
[10:06] <soren>         install -c -o 0 -g 0 -s swiggle /usr/local/bin
[10:06] <soren> and your pbuilder log says:
[10:07] <soren> install -c -o 0 -g 0 -s swiggle /usr/bin
[10:07] <sebner> \sh: be honest, you just gave a (positive) comment because my name is Ste{f,ph}an :P :P :P
[10:07] <gouki> I just changed it to see if it would work with /usr/bin.
[10:07] <soren> Besides, your Makefile doesn't use use DESTDIR.
[10:08] <\sh> gouki: install:
[10:08] <\sh>         install -c -o 0 -g 0 -s swiggle /usr/local/bin
[10:08] <\sh> is wrong
[10:08] <\sh> you need to use $DESTDIR
[10:08] <soren> $(DESTDIR), really.
[10:08] <gouki> Ok. Thank you.
[10:13] <toabctl> hi
[10:15] <iulian> Huh
[10:17] <\sh> sebner: nope :)
[10:18] <sebner> \sh: heh, what do you think about my beginning? ^ ^
[10:19] <gouki> Hmm, with $(DESTDIR) on the Makefile things work out pretty well :) Thanks!
[10:19] <\sh> sebner: you mean "The spamming monster" ?
[10:20] <sebner> \sh: in general, all of them :P
[10:21] <sebner> \sh: btw, I thought your favorite will be "The boy from Hell" :P
[10:22] <\sh> sebner: no...hellboy has a too much red skin for me ,-)
[10:24] <sebner> \sh: heh
[12:03] <savvas> using launchpad's PPA, does anoyone know if I copy the built binaries from intrepid to hardy, will they work?
[12:03] <Hobbsee> maybe.  try asking #launchpad
[12:03] <Hobbsee> i think it's supposed to
[12:03] <savvas> it's for secret maryo chronicles, 1.6 version: https://launchpad.net/~medigeek/+archive
[12:03] <\sh> Hobbsee: are you working on spamprobe merge? if not, I would like to to take it also regarding libdb-dev transition
[12:03] <savvas> hey Hobbsee :) I finally managed to upload it hehe
[12:04] <Hobbsee> \sh: no, go ahead.  I think i listed that on dad as being fine.  Someone else might be though.
[12:04] <\sh> Hobbsee: ok..thx...then I go ahead...
[12:04] <Hobbsee> \sh: i offered up my merges, and someone talked about taking them.  unfortunately, i've forgotten who it was
[12:15] <_s3rggg_> hi
[12:15] <_s3rggg_> excuse me, how can i upload a patch to release-proposed?
[12:16] <_s3rggg_> nobady can help me?
[12:22] <azeem> _s3rggg_: crossposting questions in different chans is not very useful
[12:23] <_s3rggg_> i know, i was waiting for a response
[12:23] <_s3rggg_> thank you
[12:32] <ScottK> \sh: Not really (smtpguard).  Unless it uses libdb transactions, the version dependency can just be bumped.
[12:33] <RainCT> Hi
[12:34] <\sh> ScottK: already resolved :)
[12:35] <ScottK> Great.
[12:35] <\sh> ScottK: needed a configure.ac/configure patch
[12:35] <ScottK> Ah.
[12:36] <ScottK> Didn't run into one before that needed that.
[12:36] <\sh> ScottK: control was already in shape...but some sources are really painful
[12:36] <\sh> ScottK: reprepro needs one as well...that's right the package I'm working on...
[12:37] <ScottK> Well you have to be a bit masochistic to be a MOTU anyway.
[12:37] <\sh> ScottK: not only to be a MOTU ;)
[12:38] <ScottK> Well yes, but this is supposed to be a family friendl channel.
[12:42] <\sh> ScottK: still have T -5M to learn how to be PC ;)
[12:44] <laga> what's gonna happen in 5M?
[12:45] <\sh> laga: M == Months ;) and then I have a merge of my girl and me :)
[12:46] <laga> \sh: congrats :) that's great news
[12:47] <\sh> laga: that just means, that I have to come home early...and no beer with colleagues anymore, but changing diapers :) and providing support for at least 18 years ;)
[13:18] <Milyardo> Good morning #ubuntu-motu
[13:56] <rrittenhouse> If I ever need to test a package with a certain Ubuntu version and maybe even go as far as with certain packages installed all with using VM's?
[13:56] <rrittenhouse> Is there a way to do that
[13:58] <rrittenhouse> I guess once VMWare catches up and I can use it on Ibex I could have a default install with a clean snapshot and after I'm done testing I could revert. I was just wondering if there was a better way.
[14:06] <\sh> df
[14:14] <handschuh> hi. If I include libraries into my package that are from a different author, do I have to add the author to "Upstream-Author"?
[14:15] <handschuh> at debian/copyright
[14:16] <joaopinto> handschuh, libraries are expect to be provided on self-contained packages, not bundler with your package
[14:16] <handschuh> of course the other author is mentioned, but not under Upstream-author
[14:16] <joaopinto> bundled
[14:16] <soren> handschuh: As a general rule, we don't ship libraries that way.
[14:16] <soren> handschuh: You're supposed to ship that library in a different package.
[14:16] <soren> handschuh: Unless you have a very, very good reason.
[14:16] <handschuh> well I know ... but these are java-jars
[14:16] <handschuh> I do!
[14:16] <soren> Let's hear it, then :)
[14:17] <handschuh> the java-jars that are in the repositories are poorly maintained (at least the ones I want to use)
[14:17] <\sh> java-jars? binary jar-libs shipped in source packages?
[14:17] <handschuh> sh: well ... yes
[14:18] <\sh> handschuh: why don't you try to shape the stuff in our repositories so anyone can use them again? :)
[14:18] <handschuh> sh: yes I wanted to do that after my program was accepted ...
[14:18] <soren> handschuh: That's not a good reason.
[14:19] <soren> handschuh: That's a good reason to fix up the ones in the archive.
[14:19] <handschuh> so i have to update the other packages first?
[14:19] <\sh> handschuh: yes :)
[14:19] <soren> handschuh: Or talk to the current maintainers and have them do it for you.
[14:19] <geser> handschuh: if you want your package accepted, updating them would increase the possibility to get it included
[14:20] <handschuh> soren: ok will try that first
[14:20] <handschuh> another small question: if source-files are genreated automatically ... do they need a license?
[14:20] <handschuh> say wsdl->java
[14:23] <\sh> For what are you generating a source file from a remote wsdl? (I think you mean those RPC wsdl files, right?)
[14:24] <handschuh> sh: yes the rpc-files for calling a webservice
[14:26] <\sh> handschuh: well, thinking about wsdl files and how to get them: depending on the webservice, you should ask if you can distribute them in source form...but I think this shouldn't be the correct way, because if something changes on the remote side...you need to recompile all your sources...that's not a good design
[14:27] <handschuh> sh: so again, a new package?
[14:27] <\sh> java (afaik) has the possiblity to dynamically create objects/methods from those remote api definitions (like perl or python) .. so you don't need to ship/distribute  them but getting them via http call
[14:28] <handschuh> yes but at the cost of speed
[14:29] <savvas> something like ubuntu maintainers use with the flash player package?
[14:29] <handschuh> if you have a wsdl-file that is 2mb large, it takes about 20 minutes on an averange machine to correctly pasre
[14:30] <geser> handschuh: as you need to include that wsdl-file in the source package (buildd have no internet access), talk to upstream if you are allowed to do it
[14:31] <\sh> handschuh: can you give me an example of such an wsdl file?
[14:31] <handschuh> sh: the ebay api's wsdl is about 2,6 mb
[14:31] <handschuh> geser: I have to include the wsdl?
[14:32] <handschuh> geser: why that?
[14:32] <\sh> handschuh: because it's the real source of your java classes then
[14:32] <handschuh> sh: ah ok, makes sanse
[14:32] <geser> handschuh: yes, how else will you transform it to java source without internet access?
[14:32] <handschuh> sense
[14:32] <handschuh> geser, good point
[14:33] <\sh> handschuh: you generate the .java file dynamically from the wsdl file...and the api which is described in there is copyrighted and has a license...I wonder if you are allowed to ship those definitions
[14:33] <handschuh> sh: the license is cddl (also the wsdl-file)
[14:34] <handschuh> ok again for my understanding: src-package contains the wsdl and the non-automatic genereated files
[14:35] <handschuh> and each api (in my case the ebay api) should be a separate package
[14:37] <\sh> handschuh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/70936/ <- that's the python source of a simple wsdl fetch an parse code...it took less then one minute
[14:38] <\sh> (including network time of fetching 4.2M)
[14:38] <\sh> so.. regarding time, the only bottleneck is your network...which doesn't count because you send data over your network to ebays network when you want to query stuff
[14:39] <coolbhavi> hello please take a look:  http://pastebin.com/d1f9d7b6d I am testing out...
[14:39] <coolbhavi> patch doesnt apply
[14:39] <handschuh> sh: so I am supposed not to include the generated and compiled files in the binary package?
[14:40] <\sh> handschuh: I think you are able to solve the problem using http://ws.apache.org/wsif/ to dynamically parse and use wsdl definitions in java :)
[14:41] <handschuh> sh: but then I would not be able to use the java-api, ebay is providing (additionally to the generated classes)
[14:42] <coolbhavi> This is the output I get: http://pastebin.com/d220a440
[14:46] <handschuh> sh: i am totally fine with having the wsdl file included in the source-package but in binary package this would cause a lot of work and adjustment (not just once but on every new sdk-release)
[14:49] <\sh> handschuh: I just had a look at the developer pages of ebay...I know now why you want to have this generated
[14:49] <\sh> that's why I don't like java ,-)
[14:49] <\sh> too complicated
[14:49] <handschuh> sh: just in the binary ... not in the source
[14:51] <\sh> handschuh: yes...but you need to generate the binary java class during build time ... and then install them into the binary package..so you need to ship the wsdl in your source package
[14:52] <handschuh> sh: yes thats what I want to do (as suggested here)
[14:52] <handschuh> sh: would that be acceptable?
[14:53] <\sh> handschuh: if you confirm to the license of ebay api, (http://developer.ebay.com/join/licenses/) why not
[14:54] <handschuh> sh: ok. so I have to create a ebaysdk-java package wirst?
[14:54] <handschuh> w->f
[14:56] <\sh> handschuh: yes...but the sdk is different from the api interface
[14:56] <savvas> I wonder if jbidwatcher and esniper use the ebay api
[14:56] <handschuh> sh: so 2 packages? 1 for the api and one for the sdk (depending on the api-package)?
[14:57] <handschuh> savvas: they have to
[14:57] <\sh> handschuh: the sdk you can download directly from developer.ebay...but it needs the generated wsdl stuff...and this belongs to the api...which is different from the license point of view..ask ebay first, if it's possible to ship the wsdl api definition without running into problems, stated in their api license
[14:58] <\sh> savvas: they do...but they don't have to use the SDKs ebay provides...that's the developers decision...the (remote) api is a different thing...
[14:59] <savvas> ah ok
[14:59] <handschuh> sh+savvas: but I truely think, jbidwatcher also uses the sdk
[14:59] <\sh> handschuh: as I said...the sdk is imho the easiest package..(without any problems on license side, at least for me)...regarding the api package, I'm not sure, if you are able to ship that wsdl or the generated files...
[15:00] <handschuh> sh: ok I will check that
[15:01] <\sh> handschuh: read http://developer.ebay.com/join/licenses/ and you have to take care about the different api license agreements for the ebay countries (uk, germany, france, etc.)
[15:03] <handschuh> sh: the api is the same, so the license only differs on the logos and how to present auctions on search
[15:04] <\sh> handschuh: ok..but afaics there is no word about distribution or shipping the api...imho it's best to ask their license department
[15:04] <handschuh> sh: ok I will direclty ask ebay about this
[15:05] <handschuh> sh: assuming they are fine with it, any other things i have to take care of (except the division into 2 packages)
[15:09] <\sh> handschuh: we'll see it then ;)
[15:10] <handschuh> sh: ok, thank you very much  :-)
[15:13]  * ScottK wonders how long it'll take to get unpleasant comments to his latest blog post.
[15:14] <broonie> What's controversial about it?
[15:14] <\sh> ScottK: you blogged again? ;)
[15:14] <ScottK> Yeah.  Waiting for it to hit planet.
[15:16] <\sh> ScottK: just read it directly on your host :)
[15:16] <\sh> and I don't see anything wrong with it
[15:17] <ScottK> I don't either, but I'm fairly certain there are those who will defend their right to be annoying and developers should be forced to pay attention.
[15:18] <\sh> I do read u-d-d only when I have enough time...and most of the time I read something about non working hardware, which I can't confirm, because I don't have this strange hardware
[15:18] <\sh> and it's already hard to ask people via bug reports on LP for more information...
[15:20] <\sh> or like yesterday when I replied on a mail on launchpad-users ml regarding the version numbering...It took only 1minute when I got a reply offlist from one guy who was/is subcribed to the list (knowingly or not) with "<some spanish stuff" ending with F. U. in english...
[15:30] <handschuh> sh: ebay is fine with the shipping of the wsdl file
[15:33] <directhex> how can i pass an env var to configure in cdbs?
[15:38] <joaopinto> ScottK, per your description, it is also sad to notice that some developers pay too much attention to people that could simply be ignored, and worse than that  they are willing to ignore all users because they don't like to read a few bad users
[15:39] <ScottK> joaopinto: Some people are better than others at ignoring upleasantness thrown at them.  It's only human not to like it.
[15:39] <joaopinto> so, you could just turn the subject around, if "Do you really want users to be on this list."
[15:39] <broonie> joaopinto: Often the annoying users drown out the constructive ones, sadly.
[15:40] <ScottK> joaopinto: Sure, but we've no shortage of those.
[15:40] <joaopinto> broonie, usuallly only when you feed them
[15:40] <broonie> You, or anyone else, feeds them.
[15:41] <ScottK> Fortunately because it's Ubuntu and not Debian, I never had to promise to care about the users.
[15:41] <ScottK> ;-)
[15:41] <broonie> Hey, Debian never specified that users were a high priority :)
[15:41]  * directhex relicenses an app with a "people i hate may not use this app" license
[15:43] <ScottK> broonie: Social Contract.
[15:44] <broonie> ScottK: Just says they're priorities :)
[15:44] <ScottK> True.  Not which one.  Good point.
[15:44]  * pwnguin doesn't even bother with -discuss
[15:44] <pwnguin> if nobody reads it, it's not worth posting to
[15:45] <ScottK> Some still do.
[15:45] <ScottK> I personally fixed some stuff in Intrepid because of posts to devel-discuss.
[15:45] <pwnguin> i saw that
[15:46] <pwnguin> your kdvi example is odd
[15:46] <pwnguin> same dude who asked about it wrote the recent thread
[15:47] <ScottK> In that case the user (with some help from Google) convinced me that we were dropping functionality that was valuable for a significant consituency.
[15:48] <pwnguin> If I was feeling cheeky, I'd point out that by doing that you rewarded and encouraged a certain style
[15:48] <joaopinto> the increasing number of users is expected to increase the noise, it needs to be filtered, not shutdown
[15:49] <ScottK> joaopinto: So consider my post a plea for self-filtering then.
[15:49] <\sh> hmm..I also do hear here at our company many people complaining about this and that in ubuntu, or why we through away this or that feature in this or that software..some people even swear to me...
[15:49] <ScottK> pwnguin: I'd say I succeeded in seeing past the form to the substance.
[15:49] <broonie> \sh: That's pretty much normal for any software.
[15:50] <broonie> TBF if you're used to commercial software then you're used to there being no constructive way to complain.
[15:51] <pwnguin> ~ScottK: in the meantime, people are forming a hypothesis that declaring "ubuntu sucks, the developers are stupid, and if nothing happens ILL SWITCH" is a productive way to get attention
[15:51] <joaopinto> ScottK, sure, those which do those kind of posts will really read and care about your common sense lectures
[15:51] <\sh> I'm always fixing the problem with those people with "you have two choices. 1) Let's have a drink and we talk later about it and 2) Let's go out and I'll punch you right in your face..."...mostly they choose 1) and after I'm finished drinking with them, they don't even know why they drank at all...and they forgot their problem with ubuntu ,->
[15:51] <pwnguin> its certainly not something i would have predicted either, but it seems to be the case
[15:52] <pwnguin> a similar example would be the foxconn crap
[15:52] <pwnguin> a complete violation of CoC, but it DID get enough attention fix the kernel quickly
[15:55] <\sh> pwnguin: but if anybody is doing it like that, no dev would care about fixing this stuff...
[15:55] <pwnguin> anybody?
[15:55] <pwnguin> or everybody?
[15:56] <\sh> pwnguin: everybody...
[15:56] <pwnguin> ok, that makes more sense ;)
[15:56] <pwnguin> indeed, it fails the categorical imperative
[15:57] <\sh> that was kant who introduced it...long time ago..
[16:24] <slytherin> geser: there?
[16:46] <geser> slytherin: yes, but I have to leave in a few minutes. So hurry :)
[16:47] <slytherin> geser: No issues. Filed 2 move to universe bugs yesterday. Take a look at them when you have time. imagej and robocode
[16:48] <geser> will do. I assume u-u-s is as usually subscribed?
[16:50] <slytherin> geser: yes
[16:51] <geser> then I'll find them when going over the u-u-s queue
[16:52] <slytherin> geser: By that time I will have probably added two more. :-)
[17:26] <AnAnt_> can someone look at this sync request (bug 295677)
[17:29] <slytherin> AnAnt_: A quick note, you need to give reason as to why Ubuntu changes can be dropped.
[17:30] <AnAnt_> slytherin: the changelog mentions that I have merged Ubuntu changes
[17:30] <AnAnt_> slytherin: I mean that they are merged in the debian package
[17:31] <mrooney> Are there are guides for making packages out of python apps? I found https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PythonRecipes/DebianPackage but it specifically says not to use it, which is confusing.
[17:31] <slytherin> AnAnt_: The changelog is too big. If I were MOTU, I would like to see reasons at the top.
[17:31] <AnAnt_> ok
[17:31] <Laney> mrooney: Debian has a python policy
[17:32] <RainCT> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[17:32] <slytherin> AnAnt_: just a one liner saying that all the changed have been merged in Debian is sufficient.
[17:32] <mrooney> I am trying to learn how to make my first package, out of a python application, and I am looking for a good resource
[17:32] <slytherin> any archive admins around?
[17:33] <RainCT> mrooney: does it have a setup.py file?
[17:33] <AnAnt_> slytherin: ok, thanks
[17:33] <mrooney> RainCT: nope, I am wondering if that should be my first step
[17:33] <slytherin> mrooney: What is important to you? 1. Learn way of packaging OR 2. Create a package out of scratch? If the answer is 1, then you can probably try fixing small problems in existing packages and you will learn a lot in the process.
[17:33] <RainCT> mrooney: it's easier to package if it has one, but it isn't required
[17:34] <mrooney> slytherin: well both but primarily I am interested in creating a package for a project I am the developer of, so I can have updates via a PPA and ideally have it in Jaunty
[17:35] <slytherin> mrooney: ok
[17:37] <mrooney> Know of any good resources for creating a python package from scratch? I've seen easy-deb and also http://showmedo.com/videos/video?name=linuxJensMakingDeb, though I am not sure what the standard approach is
[17:42] <persia> mrooney, Does it use distutils?
[17:43] <mrooney> persia: not currently though if that is the proper way I could do that, currently you just run it via say "python main.py"
[17:43] <mrooney> it has no "set up" process
[17:43] <persia> mrooney, Well, you'll want to first adjust it so that it can be called by some binary name, and has it's own unique namespace.
[17:44] <sebner> persia: poor you. So *many* applications O_o
[17:44] <persia> (and that "binary" (executable script) should not have a .py extension, in case you later decide to reimplement in common lisp)
[17:45] <persia> sebner, Well, archive open is a popular time to want to be MOTU.  Lots of work to do, and people just finishing the freeze with good examples of work well done.
[17:45] <slytherin> persia: any idea if there is an automated way for an archive admin of going through arch:all packages in jaunty multiverse, check which of them have same version in Debian main and move them to universe accordingly.
[17:46] <persia> mrooney, So, if it's just a single file, it's just a matter of renaming it, which is trivial.  If it's a bunch of files, you need to worry about namespace, etc. and probably want distutils.
[17:47] <mrooney> persia: yeah it is a bunch of files, artwork, translations, et cetera
[17:47] <mrooney> a medium-sized project
[17:47] <persia> slytherin, There are ways to do this.  I'd recommend starting with quinn-diff if you wanted to take a look, although several people (including myself) have written scripts that do subsets of what quinn-dif does.
[17:47] <bddebian> Oh persia is here.. :)  You bored? ;-)
[17:47] <sebner> persia: I see. good luck then =)
[17:48] <persia> mrooney, For a medium size project, you probably do want to use distutils or make or something to convert it from the format easiest to use for working on it into the format users will want it on their systems.
[17:48] <persia> bddebian, For you, I'm always bored.
[17:48] <bddebian> heh
[17:48] <persia> Which bug?
[17:49] <slytherin> persia: I will check. The reason I am asking is that, as Debian continues moving to openjdk, the packages moving from non-free to main are going to increase. So the move to universe is kind of never ending activity if I do it manually.
[17:49] <bmm> Anybody willing to comment, I'm online to respond to an upstream update: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ccbuild or a new package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink . Thanks in advance!
[17:49] <mrooney> persia: so what am I using distutils to do, place the binary, put the icons and desktop file and such in the correct locations?
[17:50] <persia> slytherin, Yep.  On the other hand, it takes two developers to move a package (and one of them must be an archive admin), so someone needs to file the bugs.  If you write a script to file them, and you take responsibility for the results, that works just as well as if you do it manually.
[17:51] <bddebian> persia: It's actually a build system issue.  Give me one sec
[17:51] <persia> mrooney, Essentially.  Then you'll use a tool like python-support or python-central to make sure that they are deployed cleanly.
[17:51] <bddebian> persia: http://people.debian.org/~bdefreese/mpg321/
[17:51] <persia> Could someone who knows more about python packaging please help mrooney?
[17:51] <slytherin> persia: hmm. I guess I will continue to do it the way I am doing currently.
[17:52] <persia> bddebian, FTBFS on sid i386?  sid amd64?  jaunty hppa?
[17:52] <mrooney> persia: okay, so I guess I have to now look up the proper place for all the different files such as artwork and translations to go :)
[17:52] <persia> mrooney, Well, you can probably get someone to give you an example package from which to start.  I'm just not the right person.
[17:53] <persia> It's usually better to leverage other's work to understand things than to hunt for all the different documentation.
[17:53] <bddebian> persia: sid i386 for sure.  What's weird is that I had to manually run autoconf --add-missing to get depcomp.  It builds OK locally but when building in a pbuilder I get /bin/bash: depcomp File not found
[17:54] <bddebian> And I'm lost on why autoreconf/etc keeps barfing on AC_TYPE_SOCKLEN_T
[18:01] <persia> bddebian, depcomp: broken symbolic link to `/usr/share/automake-1.10/depcomp' : needs build-dep tweak or a real depcomp.
[18:02] <persia> I'm very much not sure about the barfing.  How do I reproduce that?
[18:03] <bddebian> SHite, what an idiot, I didn't even catch that depcomp was a symlink..
[18:03]  * bddebian must stop the drugs
[18:04] <persia> bddebian, Well, you had context.  All I knew was that depcomp was broken, so the first thing I did after test-build was look at it, but in a sid chroot without autoconf :)
[18:04] <bddebian> persia: autoreconf or autoconf should complain about AC_TYPE_SOCKLEN_T
[18:08] <slytherin> bddebian: any chance you are using different version of automake than what the build-dep specify.
[18:09] <bddebian> I don't build-dep on them.  It's a native package, I just had to re-run for large file support
[18:09] <bddebian> It had a problem with AM_PATH_AO also but I fixed that already
[18:10] <persia> bddebian, Hrm.  apt-file search sockinttypes.m4 returns nothing, yet http://www.sra.co.jp/people/m-kasahr/getaddrinfo/README clearly states that AC_TYPE_SOCKLEN_T is defined in m4/sockinttypes.m4
[18:10] <persia> I suspect something changed, and as a result, something else needs to change.
[18:12] <persia> Or maybe not
[18:15] <bddebian> I think I can hack some crap directly into aclocal.m4 but I really despise doing that
[18:15] <persia> No, don't do that.  Just install the gnulib package.
[18:17]  * persia would again like to have Clean-Depends: and Packaging-Depends: headers to avoid hunting for these things
[18:17] <quadrispro> hi RainCT
[18:17] <quadrispro> updated -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
[18:18] <quadrispro> bye
[18:48] <webtech_m33> is there any one here that takes are of netpbm ?
[19:20] <ia> hello, everybody. i'm a newbie in creating deb-packages, but i would like to know - when debuild/dpkg-buildpackage is not enough and in which cases should use "pbuilder build" for creating binary package? what differents in this tools?
[19:22] <sebner> ia: if you are using pbuilder you have a clean build environment and you can better check you you have all the necessary build depends
[19:23] <jdong> ia: debuild/dpkg-buildpackage use contents from your host system to satisfy builds. If you have funny stuff on your host it can affect how things are built. In addition, builds that succeed locally might fail in a Ubuntu build daemon
[19:23] <jdong> pbuilder more accurately simulates the build environment in the build server cleanroom
[19:23] <jdong> it also lets you target distributions and configurations other than your host system's
[19:24] <jdong> and doesn't litter the host with -dev packages galore
[19:37] <ia> sebner, jdong: thank you very much. I've got it :-)
[20:14] <blueyed> Is the whole of virtualbox-ose 2.0.4-dfsg-0ubuntu2 SRU-worthy? At least bug 293237, bug 292856 and the change in the error message (now mentioning virtualbox-ose-source) is, IMHO, but the other fixes are nice to have, too.. changelog is at: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose
[20:39] <mok0> Anyone interested in the ATLAS library?
[20:43] <leslieviljoen> hi ppl
[20:47] <leslieviljoen> does anyone know who is responsible for building packages for PowerPc? A lot of basic software is segfaulting out of the box, but a simple source rebuild seems to fix many of these packages. I'd like to request or arrange or try myself to make updates for these packages - but my package-fu is not strong.
[20:47] <leslieviljoen> more info: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=977120
[20:48] <mok0> leslieviljoen: PPC packages are built for Ubuntu, but the platform is not formally supported
[20:48] <ScottK> leslieviljoen: There is not one specific person, but NCommander and TheMuso (not currently online) tend to care.
[20:48] <ScottK> mok0: doko has cared about ATLAS in the past.
[20:48] <NCommander> leslieviljoen, at the moment, the PowerPC support is a little *ahem* unstable. I recommend you use Hardy over Intrepid.
[20:49] <leslieviljoen> hardy doesn't even install
[20:49] <mok0> ScottK: OK. Just wondering why the version in both Debian & Ubuntu is way out of date
[20:49] <leslieviljoen> and there's no wireless
[20:49] <NCommander> leslieviljoen, what hardware? PS3?
[20:49] <leslieviljoen> No, PPC Mac Mini
[20:49] <NCommander> Odd
[20:49] <ScottK> mok0: I think doko is the one you want.
[20:49] <NCommander> A bunch of people have installed on that hardware, both Gutsy and Hardy
[20:49] <NCommander> No reported issue, no reported MIA wireless
[20:50] <NCommander> leslieviljoen, TheMuso has a PPC Mini, he'll know more than I do
[20:50] <leslieviljoen> I installed Gutsy, but Hardy never started. Even Inrtepid requires a lot of ctrl-alt-f1 as it boots to actually get a login screen.
[20:51] <leslieviljoen> I had to "nosplash"
[20:51] <leslieviljoen> Wireless is great in Intrepid but I tried for 6 months in Gutsy without any luck
[20:52] <leslieviljoen> Then again, it's the older PPC with Airport (bcm43xx I believe) - the Mac Mini which doesn't have a CD writer
[20:52] <doko> mok0, ScottK: the atlas build is non-trivial to update for atlas-3.8. if you do want to give it a try, please go ahead and email me on questions
[20:54] <leslieviljoen> Anyway, I'd like to help the poor people who have to recompile these packages. Sorry for the noise in this channel.
[20:56] <leslieviljoen> Should I mail someone?
[20:56] <leslieviljoen> If I "apt-get source", then dpkg-buildpackage, I create packages which then work, but I think I have to change the version numbers or something because the software updater then offers to "upgrade" my packages back to the broken ones.
[20:56] <mok0> doko: I thought it might be something like that. The version we have is the latest netlib version (3.6.0), but the project now lives at sf.net and the current stable version is up to 3.8.2
[20:57] <mok0> doko, the problem I've been looking at tonight is the fact that atlas does not compile on lpia arch, and that cascades onto a number of dependents
[21:00] <doko> mok0: yes, all known. please let me know if you want to update this beast. but be prepared, it will take some time
[21:02] <mok0> doko, another weird thing about atlas is  Bug #295051
[21:02] <NCommander> hey doko
[21:03] <mok0> doko: Revising the packaging is daunting, I don't have the time required to take it on at the moment
[21:03] <doko> mok0: any patch/help/update is appreciated
[21:04] <mok0> doko: I am baffeled how g77 gets into the build, I can't see there's a trace of it in Build-depends
[21:04] <doko> g77 isn't built anymore
[21:05] <mok0> doko: right, so why is is listed?
[21:05] <mok0> doko: Does atlas include its own g77 compiler?
[21:05] <doko> no
[21:06] <mok0> doko, how do you explain this:    F77 : /home/camm/usr/bin/g77, version GNU Fortran (GCC) 3.3.3 (Debian 20040422)
[21:09] <doko> mok0: which report?
[21:09] <mok0> Bug 295051
[21:17] <doko> mok0: added a comment
[21:18]  * mok0 looks
[21:18] <mok0> doko: heh, yes exactly. It's weird
[21:19] <mok0> doko: I am also puzzled by the "/home/camm" reference; it seems to be the root dir of the Debian maintainer (?)
[21:31] <leslieviljoen> anyone?
[21:34] <leslieviljoen> my question: how do I rebuild a package that I apt-get source'd so that once its installed apt-get upgrade won't immediately try to revert it back to the original?
[21:35] <RainCT> leslieviljoen: increase the version number (like, append "build1" to it)
[21:36] <joaopinto> leslieviljoen, you just need to make sure that the version is equal or greater than the one available on the repositories
[21:36] <leslieviljoen> ok great
[21:37] <leslieviljoen> then, if I wanted to distribute my built package, is there anything I should consider?
[21:37] <leslieviljoen> could I use the PPA facility in launchpad, or do I need some kind of access?
[21:38] <RainCT> I guess there shouldn't be any problem if you use a ..buildX version number
[21:39] <wgrant> joaopinto: If it's equal, it will still upgrade to the one in a repo.
[21:40] <leslieviljoen> do I put the version in the control file?
[21:41] <RainCT> leslieviljoen: no, in debian/changelog
[21:43]  * RainCT is looking for a *very* simple but yet somewhat useful C library which hasn't Python bindings :P
[21:45] <leslieviljoen> Ah, thanks! I see I can activate a PPA to distribute my custom packages too..
[21:58] <toobaz2> Is "priority != low" only for security patches or also for important bugfixes?
[21:58] <toobaz2> (oh, and, hello everyone)
[22:00] <ScottK> toobaz2: It's not used in Ubuntu, only in Debian.
[22:00] <toobaz2> so I leave "low", right?
[22:02] <RainCT> toobaz2: yep
[22:03] <toobaz2> thanks
[22:04]  * RainCT wonders if Debian has any rules on what priority to use or if that's at the Maintainer's discretion
[22:04] <lifeless> RainCT: it does; see policy
[22:05] <toobaz2> lifeless: actually, I did... but found no strict rules...
[22:06] <toobaz2> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#fr39
[22:06]  * RainCT neither
[22:07] <lifeless> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-priorities
[22:07] <lifeless> priority is set by the archive admins
[22:08] <lifeless> if you have it wrong in your package you get told by one of the lint steps
[22:08] <toobaz2> sorry, I missed the change of topic
[22:08] <toobaz2> oh
[22:08] <RainCT> lifeless: argh, I always mess up the names XD. I mean severity :P
[22:08] <toobaz2> no
[22:08] <toobaz2> wait, I completely messed my answer, which was about "urgency" tag
[22:08]  * wgrant notes that optional/extra priorities in Ubuntu are pretty broken as well.
[22:09] <siretart> RainCT: severity affects the migration delay unstable->testing (but not during freezes)
[22:09] <toobaz2> so I reformulate it: does "low" apply for any non-security bugfix, even if important?
[22:10] <wgrant> Urgency also slightly alters build priority in Soyuz.
[22:10] <RainCT> siretart: I know :)
[22:10] <ScottK> toobaz2: Very slightly only.  Just leave it low and don't worry.
[22:10] <siretart> wgrant: it does? interesting..
[22:11] <wgrant> siretart: Yes, this was only revealed last week.
[22:11] <toobaz2> ok, thanks
[22:12] <RainCT> so, the Maintainer is free to decide (in Debian)?
[22:12] <leslieviljoen> ..so, the current version of thunar is: "thunar (0.9.0-10ubuntu1) intrepid; urgency=low", I will make "thunar (0.9.0-10ubuntu1build1) intrepid; urgency=low"
[22:13] <wgrant> leslieviljoen: You'll use dch -i
[22:13] <RainCT> wgrant: (it's for a PPA)
[22:18] <leslieviljoen> ?
[22:19] <leslieviljoen> yes, I don't want to clash with a future official package
[22:19] <leslieviljoen> so is ubuntu1build1 > ubuntu1 and yet < ubuntu2 ?
[22:21] <RainCT> leslieviljoen: seems so.  dpkg --compare-versions 0.9.0-10ubuntu2 lt 0.9.0-10ubuntu1build1; echo $?    1
[22:21] <leslieviljoen> excellent
[22:22] <RainCT> and I hate shells for using 0 as success code and 1 for failure.. :P
[22:24] <POX> RainCT: urgency=medium - fixes RC bugs (including FTBFS); urgency=high - fixes security bug
[22:25] <leslieviljoen> any tips on why dependencies fail, yet the build still works?
[22:25] <leslieviljoen> I get "dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libexif-dev libpcre3-dev gtk-doc-tools"
[22:25] <leslieviljoen> are these deps in error?
[22:30] <leslieviljoen> oh, according to the ppa howto, my new version should be 0.9.0-10ubuntu2~ppa1
[22:30] <pochu> leslieviljoen: it means you don't have those build-deps installed
[22:31] <ScottK> I'd appreciate it if someone who speaks French and is somewhat clueful about working your way out of init script problems would have a look at Bug 296499
[22:34] <leslieviljoen> pochu: I know, but it builds without them, so I'm wondering if they are wrong
[22:35] <wgrant> leslieviljoen: It's not unlikely that it's now missing features.
[22:35] <wgrant> Since configure will have failed to detectt EXIF or PCRE support.
[22:38] <DktrKranz> ScottK, it's mostly "device busy" error
[22:39] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you comment then?
[22:43] <DktrKranz> ScottK, a simple translation is on bug report
[22:45] <ScottK> Thanks
[22:45] <DktrKranz> wgrant, I was succesful to have the most recent gcl built on i386 on my PPA, could you please try to build maxima on top of it?
[22:45] <DktrKranz> (amd64 is on its way)
[22:47] <wgrant> DktrKranz: Sure.
[22:47] <DktrKranz> it hasn't published yet
[22:48] <DktrKranz> just a matter of minutes
[22:48] <wgrant> I'll grab it now anyway.
[22:48]  * DktrKranz thinks it's not sufficient, but at least we have a gcl compiler
[22:49] <DktrKranz> oddly, kernel issues just went away with no modifications at all
[22:50] <wgrant> Damn gcl is huge.
[22:50] <wgrant> And of course there's no local mirror for librarian.
[22:50]  * wgrant waits.
[22:51] <leslieviljoen> ah, I see
[22:51] <DktrKranz> description is somewhat incomplete, I'll fix it if an upload to main archive is required
[22:52] <wgrant> Right, download finished... let's see how maxima goes.
[22:53] <DktrKranz> curiosity, how librarian works with PPAs?
[22:53] <mok0> ScottK, I've looked at the french havp bug
[22:53] <wgrant> DktrKranz: Like most other things in LP, PPA files are stored there, and you can get to them before they're published if you know how.
[22:53] <DktrKranz> heh, I don't know how ;)
[22:54] <DktrKranz> are librarian files consecutive?
[22:54] <wgrant> Yes.
[22:54] <ScottK> mok0: And?
[22:54] <wgrant> This has been the source of a couple of very, very bad security vulnerabilities.
[22:54] <wgrant> But it's convenient, because you just have to decrement the ID of the build log a view times, substitute in the binary name, and you'll find it.
[22:55] <mok0> ScottK: It's problem in the init script
[22:55] <wgrant> They used to be immediately prior to the build log, but it's a bit racy now, so they can be up to 10 before.
[22:55] <wgrant> And they're normally in the order specified in the .changes, which you can see near the end of the build log.
[22:56] <mok0> ScottK: It is a problem with the umounting of a loop back device.
[22:56] <mok0> ScottK: I think the solution is to do a lazy umount, but I am not sure if that is kosher
[22:56] <DktrKranz> ah, signed changes
[22:57] <DktrKranz> didn't know binary packages uses the same rule
[22:57] <wgrant> Hm?
[22:57] <DktrKranz> PPA security vulnerability
[22:58] <DktrKranz> .changes files were hidden
[22:58] <DktrKranz> but easily discoverable
[22:58] <wgrant> Right, that one, but not just that one.
[22:58] <DktrKranz> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19604372/gcl_2.6.7-45ubuntu1_i386.deb
[22:58] <DktrKranz> cool
[22:58] <wgrant> Yep.
[22:59] <DktrKranz> amd64 built too
[22:59]  * ScottK leaves to take daughter #3 to ballet lessons.
[23:00] <ScottK> mok0: Would you be willing to follow up on that?  Sounds at least vaguely reasonable.
[23:00] <ScottK> DktrKranz: You should ask NCommander to help you test gcl.  IIRC he loves that package.
[23:01] <DktrKranz> I think he dislikes 14Mb .diff.gz
[23:01]  * DktrKranz too
[23:02] <leslieviljoen> the ppa howto here: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA?action=show&redirect=PPAQuickStart, gives instructions for building source packages with "debuild -S -sd". I'd like to build a binary package and upload that. Is that ok?
[23:04] <mok0> ScottK: I am pretty sure the lazy umount will solve the problems. IMHO we need to avoid failures of maintainer scripts "at all costs" because they screw up the package system
[23:04] <wgrant> Warning:
[23:04] <wgrant> REQUIRE is being redefined.
[23:04] <wgrant> Segmentation fault
[23:04] <wgrant> How pleasant.
[23:05] <wgrant> leslieviljoen: You cannot upload binary packages.
[23:06] <DktrKranz> wgrant, in maxima? damn :)
[23:06] <ScottK> wgrant: It's "OK" (we don't mind).  It just won't work (uploading binary packages).
[23:06] <ScottK> ;-)
[23:07] <wgrant> ScottK: True.
[23:07] <wgrant> DktrKranz: Yep...
[23:07] <DktrKranz> my change is a one-liner, but it chages how gcl works
[23:07] <wgrant> I haven't got time to debug further this week or next.
[23:07] <mok0> ScottK: I need an SRU for it
[23:08] <DktrKranz> wgrant, did you testbuild in a pbuilder?
[23:08] <wgrant> DktrKranz: No. On my bare system.
[23:08] <DktrKranz> a jaunty one?
[23:09] <wgrant> Yes.
[23:09] <wgrant> Wait.
[23:09] <wgrant> No.
[23:09] <wgrant> Intrepid.
[23:09] <DktrKranz> a-ha
[23:09] <leslieviljoen> oh I see. But I see that I also cannot upload PPC packages to a PPA, since launchpad cannot build it
[23:09] <wgrant> Oh, was that a Jaunty PPA package?
[23:09] <DktrKranz> I test-built gcl on a pbuilder, on top of an intrepid box
[23:09] <wgrant> I keep forgetting I'm not on the devel release yet.
[23:09] <leslieviljoen> I'll have to find another place to put my packages
[23:09] <DktrKranz> and gcl won't build
[23:10] <DktrKranz> maybe pushing it on my pbuilder things are different
[23:10]  * DktrKranz has a look
[23:11]  * wgrant debootstraps.
[23:11] <DktrKranz> wgrant, did you do changes, or just a plain merge?
[23:12] <wgrant> DktrKranz: I just used the vanilla Debian source, as that was more likely to work.
[23:12] <DktrKranz> ok
[23:13]  * DktrKranz does a test-build on my PPA too
[23:14] <jdong> haha this shouldn't see the light of day.
[23:14] <jdong> a slightly modified markov-model-ish travesty generator ran on all the USNs I had on file
[23:15] <jdong> it would probably be the security team's worst nightmare :D
[23:15] <wgrant> Oh dera.
[23:15] <wgrant> What does it say?
[23:15] <jdong> wgrant: it rambles nearly coherent security bug descriptions, affected packages, md5sums, etc
[23:16] <wgrant> Pastebin!
[23:16] <jdong> roughly based off frequently used sentence structures in the existing notices
[23:16] <wgrant> Yep, I know approximately how that works.
[23:16] <mok0> Bug 296499
[23:17] <mok0> This was converted to a question???
[23:17] <jdong> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/71118/
[23:18] <wgrant> Ooh, crafted network cable.
[23:18]  * RAOF perks up at mention of "nouveau", then realises that it's an ordinary error message in French.
[23:19] <wgrant> Heh.
[23:31] <jdong> wgrant: "Georgi Guninski discovered a predict the user were tricked into opening
[23:31] <jdong> a malicious web page, an attacker could force a user or automated systems
[23:31] <jdong> ack, nasty paste.
[23:31] <jdong> using HTX allow an attackers may be able to see data from direct-IO subsystem
[23:31] <jdong> did not properly processing a crafted FLV, MOV, RM, MVE, MKV or CAK file"
[23:31] <jdong> that is a particularly good one. VLC meets Firefox :)
[23:32] <kees> jdong: *rofl* this is great!
[23:33] <jdong> :D I should be studying for a probability test, but I figured this is related to the course material ;-)
[23:33] <kees> seems to be more heavily weighted to recent USNs?
[23:33] <kees> hehe
[23:33] <jdong> yeah I grabbed only a subset of the recent ones
[23:33] <kees> jdong: I can provide you with _all_ of them, if you want.  :)
[23:34] <jdong> kees: haha I'll fail my test for sure then ;-)
[23:34] <kees> heheh
[23:46] <kees> jdong: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/usndesc.txt.bz2 (for when your test is over...)
[23:48] <DktrKranz> wgrant, maxima merge published on my PPA, building successfully for now
[23:49] <wgrant> DktrKranz: Oh, excellent.
[23:49] <DktrKranz> it builds since ten minutes now
[23:49] <DktrKranz> so I guess it passed your FTBFS point
[23:50] <DktrKranz> amd64 build was successful
[23:51] <wgrant> Excellent!
[23:51] <wgrant> What was the gcl change?
[23:51] <DktrKranz> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19563782/gcl_2.6.7-45_2.6.7-45ubuntu1.diff.gz
[23:51] <DktrKranz> locbfd by default
[23:52] <DktrKranz> I discovered it some months ago while trying to fix axiom
[23:52] <wgrant> Aha.
[23:52]  * DktrKranz thinks rdepends must be rebuilt, that change is intrusive
[23:54] <DktrKranz> If i386 build is fine too, mind checking it? I'll give a try to axiom and related, so we can have gcl finally fixed
[23:55] <DktrKranz> i386 built \o/
[23:55] <wgrant> Sure, testing.
[23:55] <wgrant> What due locbfd do?
[23:56] <wgrant> Er.
[23:56] <wgrant> What *does*
[23:56] <wgrant> I can't think.
[23:56] <DktrKranz> I checked at the time, don't remember exaclty now
[23:57] <DktrKranz> IIRC, it's something related to stack management
[23:57]  * DktrKranz is off for the night, let's continue discussion tomorrow, hopefully with some uploads ;)
[23:58] <wgrant> Night.
[23:58] <wgrant> Thanks for fixing it.
[23:58] <DktrKranz> it was on my list ;)