/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/12/#ubuntu-x.txt

njhtrying to get a marblemouse working on intrepid (upgraded from hardy)06:46
njhtwo problems06:46
njhfirst is the button reassignmentL:06:46
njhnjh@thestral:~/svn/lib2geom$ xinput set-button-map 6 1 8 3 4 5 6 7 2 906:46
njhX Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)06:46
njh  Major opcode of failed request:  148 (XInputExtension)06:46
njh  Minor opcode of failed request:  29 (X_SetDeviceButtonMapping)06:46
njh  Value in failed request:  0xa06:46
njh  Serial number of failed request:  1306:46
njh  Current serial number in output stream:  1306:46
njhthe second is that although the scroll button correctly disconnects the cursor movement, it doesn't generate any scroll events06:47
njhhere's my props:06:47
njhDevice 'Logitech USB Trackball':06:47
njhDevice Enabled:106:47
njhMiddle Button Emulation:106:47
njhMiddle Button Timeout:5006:47
njhWheel Emulation Inertia:1006:47
njhWheel Emulation:106:47
njhWheel Emulation X Axis:6, 706:47
njhWheel Emulation Y Axis:4, 506:47
njhWheel Emulation Timeout:20006:47
njhWheel Emulation Button:906:47
njhDrag Lock Buttons:006:47
njhthese settings work on intrepid from scratch06:47
wgrantnjh: Please don't flood. The xinput problem is probably caused by your failing to understand that it wants a permutation of the buttons.06:48
njhI gave it permutation of the buttons06:49
wgrantThere are precisely 9 buttons that X knows about?06:49
njhhow would I find out?06:49
njhas I said, the same settings worked on a different machine06:49
njhit's hard to debug this when debuging information is scant and the documentation lacking06:50
wgrantIt depends on the mouse, not the machine.06:50
njhit is the same mouse06:50
njhI simply unplugged it from one and moved it to the other06:50
wgrantAre you sure you're giving it the right device ID?06:50
njhbut I'll just try again06:50
njhyes06:50
njhyep, it still works06:52
njhso same mouse, both intrepid, same options06:53
njhworks fine on machine A (installed from CD)06:53
njhdoesn't on machine B (upgrade from vanilla hardy)06:53
wgrantSame architecture?06:53
wgrantNo input devices in xorg.conf?06:54
njhboth 32 bit x8606:54
njhall input devices commented out ("commented out by update-manager, HAL is now used")06:54
wgrant'xinput list' from both machines.06:55
wgrant!pastebin06:55
ubottupastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)06:55
njh*sniff*  how primitive06:55
wgrantHm?06:56
njhcan't copy and paste over remote desktop it seems :(06:57
njhand now it works07:01
njhoh well, bug solved07:01
wgrantHeh.07:01
njhthough I wish I could make the hal thing work07:01
wgrantWhat do you mean?07:01
njhrather than using xinput07:01
wgrantWhat isn't working about it?07:02
njhI followed the instrutions at:07:02
njhhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Logitech_Marblemouse_USB07:02
njhbut the fdi match file doesn't07:02
wgrantWhich bit doesn't work? Just the buttonmapping?07:02
njhso I just created a new file.fdi with that xml07:03
wgrantOh.07:03
wgrantThat would do it.07:03
wgrantThat's not complete.07:03
* wgrant fixes.07:03
wgrantAdd:07:04
wgrant<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>07:04
wgrant<deviceinfo version="0.2"> <device>07:04
wgrantTo the start.07:04
wgrantAnd:07:04
wgrant  </device>07:04
wgrant</deviceinfo>07:04
njhincidently, any reason why that file isn't included in intrepid itself?07:04
wgrantto the end.07:04
wgrantNobody I know has that hardware, and I wasnt sure if that was appropriate for the ubiquitous configuration.07:04
njhah, well everyone I mentioned I'd bought it too said they also had one07:05
wgrantI hadn't heard of it until I tried to fix that page.07:05
njhdoes it hurt to have such stuff?07:05
wgrantDoes everybody use the trackball like that?07:05
njhgiven that it's 545 bytes07:05
njhpretty much07:05
njhit's the way that windows does it07:06
njhok, I've updated the fdi file07:06
wgrantOK.07:06
njhdo I just unplug and replut?07:06
wgrantThat should do it, yes.07:06
njhnup07:06
njhwhere does the errors go?07:06
wgrantHmmm.07:06
wgrantYou could check /var/log/Xorg.0.log07:07
wgrantIt's possible that you'll need to restart hal (ie. reboot), but I've never had to.07:07
njhit's finding the mouse, but setting the wrong options07:08
wgrantIs it setting any of them?07:08
njhyes, but to the hard defaults07:09
wgrantYou might want to try giving it the full button mapping - that might be why people have said the given fdi file doesn't do that.07:09
njhit's not setting anything atm07:09
wgrantHmmmmm.07:09
njhshould  <merge key="input.x11_options.ButtonMapping" type="string">1 8 3 2 9</merge> be a permutation?07:09
wgrantI suspect evdev will want it to be, yes.07:09
njh(and if so, how do I find out the correct number of buttons)07:10
wgrantmouse worked without it, but I'm not sure about evdev.07:10
njhhmm07:10
njhit hasn't set any of the other props though07:10
njhwhich suggests that it isn't matching07:10
wgrantDoes lshal see that same product name?07:10
njhyes07:11
wgrantOK, you might have to restart hal. But don't do that while X is running.07:11
njhno07:11
njhthat's bad07:11
njhI wonder if adding that to the existing preferences file would work07:12
wgrantIt's possible that hal saw the file, noticed that it wasn't a real fdi file, so is now going to ignore it until you restart it.07:12
brycewgrant: why not restart hal while X is running?07:12
njhit buggers everything up07:12
njhbtdt07:12
wgrantbryce: X has got very very angry with me because of that twice now.07:12
wgrantX wanders away and dies eventually.07:12
njhyeah, that07:13
brycewgrant: interesting.  I've been doing that without issue, although not recently07:13
brycewgrant: is there a bug about that issue?  07:13
njhok, so deviceinfo tag is once per file?07:13
wgrantbryce: I didn't think it would count as a bug.07:13
njhit's a bit bad I think07:13
brycewgrant: no?  One of the advertised features of all this hal stuff was that hal changes could be made without having to restart X.07:14
wgrantnjh: deviceinfo is the top-level element, so yes, only one.07:14
wgrantbryce: I normally don't have to restart hal to make changes to the hal config.07:14
njhnup07:14
njhstill no go07:14
njhso it's probably not matching something exactly07:14
njhI wish it would tell me why not07:14
wgrantbryce: Let's see what X does if I restart hal now... maybe brb.07:15
njha hal reload option might be useful07:15
wgrantHm.07:15
wgrantX survived that time.07:15
wgrantIt doesn't always.07:15
njhno07:15
njhit could be a heisenbug07:16
brycehuh.  well, if either of you run into this issue again, please file a bug on it with the logs / error messages.  That seems like something well worth getting fixed.07:16
njhrestarting hal didn't fix the problem in any case07:16
brycetroubleshooting input-hotplug issues are hard enough without also having X fall to pieces ;-)07:16
wgrantbryce: Sure, will do.07:16
njhyes07:17
wgrantYep...07:17
njhthe doco says match key="@blah"07:18
wgrantnjh: Try contains= rather than string=07:19
njhnup07:20
njhI wish I knew exactly what steps are required07:20
njhdo I need restart hal after every edit?07:21
wgrantnjh: I don't think so. I can just drop a new file in /etc/hal/fdi/policy, replug the device, and have the new setting in place.07:21
njhI don't even know if it is reading the file :(07:21
njhok07:22
njhis there something I could put in the file which would prove it is being read?07:22
njhperhaps a syntax error...07:22
njhnup, a syntax error does not break it :)07:22
wgrantI don't know how hal works, sorryu.07:23
wgrant-u07:23
bryceI was debugging by diffing lshal output before and after plugging in the device07:24
wgrantThat would work.07:24
* wgrant just read the email on ubuntu-x about the tablet config UI.07:27
wgrantAll of those things look like they should be exposed through XI device props...07:27
tjaaltonmorning07:27
njh>   input.x11_options.ButtonMapping = '1 8 3 2 9'  (string)07:27
njhit's setting the buttons!07:28
njhjust nothing else07:28
wgrantMorning tjaalton.07:28
bryceheya tjaalton07:29
brycewgrant: yeah I'm writing a reply to that thread, it would be great to get your input on it as well07:30
njhI'm wondering whether the x names differ from the xinput names07:31
wgrantbryce: I think we're going to need one awfully big unified gnome-input-properties...07:31
brycewgrant: well my hope is to try to keep the scope of what we do within reason07:31
wgrantOf course.07:32
njhok, I've got it correctly matching the mouse07:35
tjaaltonbryce: I was wondering, should we make it a policy that every change is in git, even the small ones. Then there would be no need to remove the Vcs-* stuff from control files like loïc did, and it would be more clear to the casual committer07:35
wgrantnjh: What needed changing?07:35
njh<match key="info.product" string="Marble Mouse (4-button)">07:35
wgrantAh, so it's a different name.07:35
njhdoesn't actually set the xinput props though07:35
tjaaltonbryce: also, the mail address could probably be changed to ubuntu-x07:35
njhbut lshal sets props being defined07:35
wgrantIf hal sees them and the device has been replugged, X should see them too.07:36
wgrantBut the xinput/hal names won't match.07:36
brycetjaalton: to be honest, I find doing things in git to be a real hassle, and makes things take 2-3 times as long as they should07:36
wgrantI think the old xorg.conf names should die soon and hal should be able to tell the server to set XI props.07:36
njhhal does not need a restart07:37
njhok07:37
tjaaltonbryce: we should probably have a git BOF at UDS then :)07:37
njhI've been removing the spaces from the prop names07:37
wgrantbzr!07:37
tjaaltonbzr can't do git07:37
njhis that bad?07:37
wgrantnjh: xinput properties don't have the same names. You should use fdi files as if they were xorg.conf.07:38
njhoh07:38
njhI have no idea what the xorg names are07:38
bryceI'd be willing to give it a go with bzr07:38
wgrantnjh: The names in the example look good.07:38
wgrantbzr makes sense, but the problem is that it's not trivial to keep pulling from git.07:38
wgrantImporting from git is easy, but not continously.07:39
brycehm, I've tried doing merges through git a few times, but I found the procedure to be fairly intricate07:40
tjaaltonhaving stuff in git.d.o allows the debian people to see what we do, and point out potential problems like jcristau does07:40
brycefor complex things like xserver, xorg, etc. that have a lot of patches and changes to merge, I can accept that it's worth the trouble, but with packages that have fewer changes it seems quicker just to do merges by hand07:40
njhwgrant, but they don't work :)07:41
njhso I can now effectively set hal attributes07:41
njhbut I can't work out how to convince myself that X is listening to them07:41
njhbryce's diff trick is very helpful07:41
njhadd that to your toolbox!07:41
tjaaltongit fetch; git merge debian-unstable, that's not difficult07:41
njhI find git frustrating07:42
njhdespite mental's badgering, I still find myself using svn07:42
tjaaltonwhen your own tree is old, you need to git rebase origin/ubuntu first07:42
tjaaltonthere's at least one mesa change that is not in git yet07:42
njhI suspect it's just curmudgeonness07:42
njhit took me years to switch from cvs :)07:43
njhat least with git I can use both on the same project07:43
wgrantgit doesn't seem to make sense.07:43
wgrantbzr is fine.07:43
tjaaltonsvn doesn't make sense :)07:43
njhit must07:43
njhit was written by god himself07:43
tjaaltonwell I find bzr confusing so here we go :)07:43
njhmental dislikes bzr07:44
njhnup07:45
njhthose parameters are not being fed through to X07:45
njhthey get as far as hal07:45
brycenjh, now that he works for canonical and will probably have to use it, it'll be interesting to see if his opinion evolves07:46
njhactually, he hates it _since_ he started using it at canonical07:46
njhon the other hand, he has seen the light wrt python :)07:46
wgrantWho are we talking about?07:46
* njh smugly points out that bryce now uses apt and mental now uses python07:46
njhwgrant, nobody knows...07:47
brycewgrant: njh and mental are two of the guys that founded Inkscape with me07:47
njhhe is known as....07:47
njh...mental07:47
wgrantAhh.07:47
njhyes, the triumvirate: the maiden, the mother and the crone07:48
njh(we're still fighting over who is what)07:48
brycenjh: fwiw, I'm finally doing python too07:48
njhbryce, good to hear07:48
njhglad you've finally seen the light07:49
wgrantHow can one not do Python?07:49
njhbryce and I used to argue about python vs perl07:49
njhso, does anyone else have evidence that setting parameters via fdi actually has any effect on xorg?07:50
brycewouldn't go so far as seeing light...07:50
njhbecause I can make them anything, and nothing changes07:50
wgrantnjh: Yes. I do it all the time.07:50
njhthe data is coming from somewhere else07:50
wgrantnjh: It depends on whether the driver is looking at them or not.07:50
njhso what is ZAxis?07:51
njhis it the same as YAxis?07:51
njhis there an XAxis?07:51
njhmeh, I'm tired07:54
njhthanks for all your hel[07:54
njhhelp07:54
njhat least I can trust hal works07:54
njhI just need to connect it to xorg07:54
njhhowever, unless you have evidence to the contrary, this page is wrong:07:55
njhhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Logitech_Marblemouse_USB07:55
njhperhaps you can ask if anyone has actually got it working07:55
njhlooks like people are still having trouble anyway07:57
wgrantI've seen a few people on ubuntuforums use that fine,.07:57
* njh reads more bugs07:57
njhreally? (does spoke eyebrow thing)07:57
njhor merely run away07:58
njhok, bed time07:59
njhttyl07:59
tjaaltonmvo: hey, I've seen a lot of "failed to install/upgrade" errors due to "package foo is already installed and configured". what's causing that?09:03
seb128I was going to ask that too ;-)09:06
tjaaltonthey are all over the place, so it's pretty common I guess..09:08
mvotjaalton: do you have a example  bug number for me?09:08
seb128mvo: bug #29657609:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 296576 in eog "package eog 2.24.1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29657609:09
tjaaltonmvo: bug 296571 (just happened to look at ghostscript bugs)09:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 296571 in ghostscript "package ghostscript 8.63.dfsg.1-0ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29657109:09
tjaaltonplenty of them against the x packages too09:09
mvothanks, looking09:09
tjaaltonseb128: heh, appears to be the same reporter09:11
seb128he likely opened several duplicates09:11
tjaaltonyep09:12
bryceheya mvo09:30
bryce<mvo> hm, so I read reports that compiz does hang on a i945 for intrepid   --- lp#?09:31
bryce<mvo> tjaalton: is there someone familiar with intel I could talk to? do we have a contact at intel? I mean, blacklisting i830,845,945 does not leave that many cards that we don't blacklist09:31
bryce<mvo> bryce: ^--- ?09:31
mvobryce: good monring09:32
mvobryce: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/29681909:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 296819 in compiz "Intrepid Compiz hangs on login for i945GM video cards" [Undecided,Incomplete]09:32
brycemvo:  i830/i845 should be considered separate from i94509:32
mvobryce: it seems like it is ot affecting all i945 system so it is less servere09:32
mvobryce: 830/845 are blacklisted now09:33
mvobut blacklisting i945 would blakclist half of the laptops out there (and all netbooks ;)09:33
brycepre-855 is hardly supported by upstream any longer, so compiz issues on those chips are not terribly high priority (unfortunately IMHO, but seems reality)09:33
brycei945 are more recent and more important09:33
mvoyes, I'm sad about the lack of <85509:34
brycefrom bug reports, I've seen huge variability in i94509:36
brycemany issues are specific down to the subsystem vendor pci id09:36
bryce...so if you blacklist, I'd just ask that you blacklist at the subsystem vendor pci id.  (i.e., the second line from lspci -vvnn)09:41
tjaaltonpitti had the same pci id and works fine09:41
bryceif two people with the same subsystem vendor pci id have the same problem, then one would have to conclude it's due to some difference other than video card chips.10:01
bryceanyway, night.10:01
tjaaltonnight10:01
mvonight10:01
seb128mvo: did you look at this install bug?10:02
mvoseb128: no, was doing other stuff10:03
mvonot yet10:03
seb128ok10:03
superm1tseliot, not sure if you were aware yet: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_177.82.html17:52
superm1it's a bug fix release17:52
tseliotsuperm1: no, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks17:52
superm1tseliot, when they are saying mobile GPUs with suspend problem, it's most 9xxx mobile GPUs, and rather annoying :(17:53
tseliotsuperm1: ok, I'll request another SRU soon17:54
superm1tseliot, if you need sponsorship to jaunty, let me know and i can upload it when you've got packaging ready17:55
tseliotok ;)17:55
superm1tseliot, or if you normally use PPA pocket copying, nvm17:55
tseliotI usually upload the source to my webspace17:56
solarionwill there be any trouble if I buy a HDCP-aware monitor for use with Linux?20:17
tjaaltonsolarion: no20:26
solariontjaalton: thanks.  I waited and then asked xorg-devel. :)20:28
tjaaltonyeah noticed that afterwards20:29
solarion:)20:30
solarionwhat'd you say are the most important things to consider in an lcd monitor?20:30
solarionscreen size and res are obvious20:30
tjaaltondont buy the cheapest, and preferably with !TN panel20:39
solarionwhy not the cheapest?20:42
tjaaltonthere's a reason they are cheap20:44
brycebrightness is another consideration20:46
brycealthough most lcd's these days are sufficiently bright20:46
solarionwhat's a good brightness?20:46
brycejust make sure it's got a broad range20:47
solariontjaalton: I mean, is there usually a specific thing cheap lcd monitors are cheap because of, that's not immediately obvious to the novice?20:48
tjaaltonmissing digital input(s), TN panels, bad ergonomics etc20:49
solarionwhat digital inputs would be missing?20:49
tjaaltondvi for instance20:50
solarionaside from DVI and VGA, what other connectors do you think are important (HDMI is irrelevant to me, I think)20:51
tjaaltonmine has a usb-hub in it which is handy20:54
* solarion ponders20:55
solarionwhat is better than a TN panel?21:06
tjaaltonIPS/*VA21:09
tjaaltoneizos are MVA's I think..21:09
solarionwhy is tn bad?21:33
tjaaltonthe viewing angle and gamut coverage is narrower21:48
solarionah21:48
solarionwhat's the going price for a good lcd?21:49
tjaaltonbut just buy what pleases your eyes and budget :)21:49
solarionI can buy a second card and 3 monitors for under $600.  :)21:49
solariongood resolution too21:49
tjaaltonmy 24" benq cost around 800EUR, and it's pretty good21:50
solarionouch21:50
solarionthat's probably more than the bosses would let me have. :)21:50
tjaaltonyes, you can do a lot of stuff for $600 ;)21:50
tjaaltonhm s/do/get/21:52
solarionboth work.  :)21:54
solarionthanks for the info21:54
solarionmaybe when I'm a professor I can get a real LCD.21:54
tjaaltonheh, and some time I'll get an eizo for photo management :)21:55
tjaaltonwow, 24" review champ eizo for 500EUR21:58
festr_hi22:00
festr_i'm trying to test GEM with 2.6.28-rc4 and xorg/mesa/intel master branches. I'm getting in xorg log (II) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI2 capable22:01
festr_but 3d works. so i'm wondering this DRI2 issue. any idea?22:01
tjaaltondon't think anyone here has gone that far22:02
tjaaltonbesides it's not the master branches you want22:02
festr_i'm not able to find any info how to check if GEM is actually used if you understand :)22:02
jcristauthere's no dri2 support in intel ddx master22:02
jcristauso that's expected22:02
festr_so thats explain it. exist some dri2 branch is it worth of try?22:03
jcristaui don't think it's worth it at this point22:04
festr_i though that new 2.5.0 with gem and uxa has dri222:06
=== superm1` is now known as superm1
jcristaunope22:15
=== philwyett_ is now known as philwyett
brycetjaalton: regarding bug 278318, I've updated the patch to flip it such that texturedvideo is true by default.  I'll post a debdiff.22:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 278318 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "video tearing with textured video on intel card" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27831822:42
brycetjaalton: posted.  If people wish for something more elaborate than just that, then I think we should leave it to jaunty and skip doing an sru.22:48
brycerestoring an xorg.conf option seems pretty low risk, but mucking about in the video driver logic is probably better to leave for the development branch.22:49

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