[00:13] <bryce> most internal lists aren't that interesting.  If you post anything interesting, mdz or someone jumps on you and makes you post it to a public list.
[01:59] <superm1> bryce, based on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/284408/comments/40 i almost think this should be SRU'ed...
[02:12] <bryce> superm1: would you like to put an sru through on it?
[02:12] <bryce> superm1: or talk to pitti/slangasek to see if they'd consider it?
[07:38] <superm1> bryce, slangasek said he'd consider.  i've uploaded to intrepid-proposed awaiting archive admin pokage then
[07:39] <crevette> hello
[07:40] <bryce> hi crevette
[07:40] <bryce> superm1: okay, thanks
[07:41] <crevette> hello bryce 
[07:41]  * bryce spams launchpad (again)
[08:00] <bryce> (done)
[08:01] <wgrant> How many bugs this time?
[08:01] <wgrant> (I prefer to spam Launchpad *devs* with *new* bugs)
[08:02] <bryce> hrm, I need to print out a total
[08:03] <bryce> couple hundred I guess
[08:03] <wgrant> Ah, not too bad.
[08:03] <bryce> wgrant: this run included the change that sets bugs to confirmed
[08:03] <bryce> so some portion were set to incomplete with appropriate info requests, and a larger proportion -> confirmed
[08:03] <wgrant> Nice.
[08:04] <bryce> we should see a nice drop in total number New
[08:08] <bryce> heh, notice how this graph has a big drop every 7 days:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/complete-graphs/xorg/plots/xorg-month-new.png
[08:09] <bryce> (I suspect that's cause I run my new bug triage script every thursday)
[08:10] <bryce> (more graphs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Plots/)
[08:11] <wgrant> Yowch. Over 2000 bugs on ~ubuntu-x-swat's packages again...
[08:12]  * bryce nods
[08:12] <bryce> I closed 10 today
[08:13] <bryce> == barely a dent
[08:13] <bryce> heya tseliot
[08:14] <bryce> wgrant: well, the good news is we had around ~2000 when hardy released, so at least we're staying even
[08:14] <bryce> heya philwyett
[08:14] <wgrant> bryce: Ah, not too bad then.
[08:14] <philwyett> Hi bryce
[08:14] <bryce> wgrant: of course my goal for intrepid had been not to stay at 2000 but to decrease to 1500
[08:14] <tseliot> hi bryce
[08:14] <bryce> guess I was a bit optimistic ;-)
[08:16] <tjaalton> hmm, hyundai accent 90EUR for two days
[08:16] <tjaalton> morning
[08:16] <bryce> morning tjaalton
[08:18] <bryce> tseliot: I'm having a lot of various discussions about a config tool for wacom tablets
[08:18] <tseliot> bryce: good, did you decide anything?
[08:18] <bryce> tseliot: I'm trying to tamp expectations down to something simple that even I could deliver on...  if you have thoughts on what *you* would like to do, it would be helpful to hear them
[08:18] <tjaalton> wacom should just support properties
[08:19] <wgrant> tjaalton: But that would make sense...
[08:19] <tjaalton> wgrant: hehe
[08:19] <wgrant> Properties make a GUI so much easier.
[08:19] <bryce> tseliot: really it needs to be a group decision what we do...  I'd like to see us make good progress with wacom but don't want to commit people beyond myself to work
[08:20] <tseliot> bryce: I haven't tried a tablet yet but it shouldn't be difficult to create a nice UI for tablets. Editing XML (fdi) and/or the xorg.conf should be easy.
[08:20] <tseliot> however
[08:20] <tseliot> I'm also working on outputs
[08:20] <bryce> so I'm sort of dependent on people speaking up in relation to what they're interested / willing to do
[08:21] <bryce> tseliot: btw did you get the one I mailed to you?
[08:21] <wgrant> Why create a GUI for putting settings in fdi files when properties are surely the future?
[08:21] <tseliot> bryce: ?
[08:21] <tseliot> the tablet or the email?
[08:21] <bryce> tseliot: tablet
[08:22] <tseliot> no, nothing as of yet
[08:22] <bryce> tseliot: ah.  well I posted it about 1.5 weeks ago, so hopefully should arrive soon
[08:22] <tseliot> bryce: ok, thanks a lot
[08:23] <bryce> tseliot: this is one that doctormo lent to me, with the provision that it should "go to whomever makes tablets work"
[08:23] <tseliot> let me know how much is the shipping via email
[08:23] <bryce> wasn't me, so I hope it's you :-)
[08:23] <bryce> tseliot: no worries
[08:24] <tseliot> I think I can make it easy to configure tablets in Ubuntu and as soon as the tablet arrives I'll start playing with it
[08:24] <bryce> wgrant: actually what we've been discussing is even more ol' school - setting into xorg.conf
[08:25] <wgrant> bryce: So I saw :(
[08:25] <tseliot> bryce: I would also like to show my new Python API for RandR at the UDS
[08:26] <bryce> tseliot: cool :-)
[08:26] <tseliot> and we'll have to decide what I should focus on first
[08:26] <tseliot> outputs or tablet? We'll see
[08:26] <bryce> tseliot: btw I assume you're aware of mvo's python randr bindings?
[08:27] <bryce> I put in a comment to cjwatson's jaunty focus thread that us ubuntu-x guys would like to put a focus on wacom's
[08:27] <tseliot> bryce: yes, and if my xcb module is not enough I will rework mvo's bindings since the rest of my library should work
[08:27] <tseliot> good
[08:27] <tjaalton> surely we'll get xserver 1.6 and all the GEM/KMS-goodness too?
[08:28] <tjaalton> even if it means pulling stuff from git
[08:28] <tseliot> doesn't that depend on the kernel too?
[08:28] <tjaalton> since I've no idea when mesa 8.3 is going to be released
[08:28] <tjaalton> yes
[08:28] <tjaalton> but .28 has GEM
[08:28] <tjaalton> KMS on top of it isn't that much
[08:28] <tjaalton> if we don't get .29
[08:29] <bryce> tseliot: dunno if you saw my earlier comment but cjwatson suggested bugfixing on long-standing bugs be the focus for jaunty.  I basically consider our wacom situation to be one big longstanding regression bug, so figure whatever we want to do there will fit in well.
[08:29] <bryce> tjaalton:  surely
[08:29] <tjaalton> ok, sub'd to linuxwacom*
[08:29] <tjaalton> bryce: ncie
[08:29] <bryce> tjaalton: I do wonder if this gives us some flexibility as to what level of GEM support we want to push
[08:29] <tjaalton> *nice
[08:29] <tseliot> bryce: yes, right, that can be considered a big bug
[08:30] <tjaalton> bryce: GEM is a must, but KMS is extra
[08:30] <tjaalton> unless we want to have plymouth
[08:30] <tseliot> can't we postpone Plymouth to Jaunty+1?
[08:31] <bryce> tjaalton: I figure if we're a touch conservative this release, it wouldn't hurt
[08:31] <bryce> mesa 8.3??  shouldn't that be either 8.0 or 7.3?  or am I drunk?
[08:32] <tjaalton> oh right, 7.3
[08:33] <tjaalton> tseliot: of course, but usplash is crap
[08:33] <tjaalton> and unmaintained
[08:33] <tjaalton> for years now
[08:33] <bryce> well who cares with usplash ;-)
[08:33] <bryce> suspend/hibernate ftw
[08:33] <bryce> ftw?
[08:34] <wgrant> Won't we still need usplash, given that KMS won't work everywhere for ages/ever?
[08:35] <bryce> wgrant: true
[08:35] <tjaalton> plymouth should get another fallback method between KMS and text
[08:35] <bryce> wgrant: yeah aiui plymouth only works with -ati so far
[08:35] <tjaalton> soon with intel
[08:35] <tjaalton> too
[08:35] <bryce> mm
[08:35] <tjaalton> and nouveau doing slow progress
[08:35] <bryce> we'll see.  -intel is bouncy
[08:36] <bryce> oh hey while you're all here
[08:36] <bryce> I've been adopting a practice of trying to upstream 1 bug a day
[08:36] <tseliot> tjaalton: usplash may be crap but it works (or pretend to work) with a number of graphics drivers. Plymouth doesn't (because of drivers, of course)
[08:36] <bryce> and I'm surprised how effective this is
[08:37] <bryce> I'm seeing about a 50% response rate pretty much across the board on all X packages, which seems pretty good
[08:37] <tjaalton> tseliot: plymouth as of now, but surely we could change that?
[08:38] <tseliot> tjaalton: yes, of course. And I'm very excited about plymouth too ;)
[08:38] <bryce> I don't know how actively y'all upstream bugs, but if you're not, I'd definitely encourage you to set aside a chunk of time to do so
[08:38]  * wgrant should be able to get into X bugs in about a week.
[08:38] <tseliot> bryce: 50% rate is more than good
[08:39] <bryce> I particularly focus on -intel, -ati, xserver, and xkeyboard-config
[08:39] <bryce> tseliot: indeed, I expected about a 10% rate, so I'm quite happy
[08:41] <bryce> tjaalton: could I ask a favor?  I find it difficult to upstream bugs to debian.  I would appreciate it if you would write a short description to ubuntu-x@ of how you forward packaging bugs to debian.
[08:41] <tjaalton> bryce: I don't, git is more efficient :)
[08:41] <bryce> (this may tie into your interest in setting up git for ubuntu)
[08:42] <bryce> heh
[08:42] <tjaalton> I usually just ask on #debian-x, and if a change is ok I'll do it
[08:43] <bryce> tjaalton: so push git from that angle, but I'd like to read your thoughts on that
[08:43] <tjaalton> bryce: ok, I'll see what goes on in my head and post
[08:43] <bryce> thanks
[08:44] <bryce> my particular problem has been knowing how to forward bugs to debian (via email?)
[08:45] <tjaalton> yes, email is the interface
[08:48] <tjaalton> I could write a short summary, but for real bugs b.fd.o is our upstream
[08:48] <tjaalton> I don't see that many packaging bugs in lp
[08:49] <tjaalton> and some that have been fixed were problems only in our packages
[08:49] <tjaalton> due to different history etc
[08:49]  * bryce nods
[08:49] <tjaalton> bryce: you agree that we could change the Maintainer address to ubuntu-x@?
[08:50] <bryce> tjaalton: yep
[08:50] <tjaalton> cool
[08:51] <tjaalton> I'll upload xorg-server and probably libdrm 2.4.1 today
[08:52] <bryce> awesome
[08:52] <bryce> with libdrm uploaded, -intel 2.5.x can be merged
[08:52] <wgrant> Ooh shiny.
[08:52] <wgrant> I might upgrade to Jaunty soon.
[08:52] <tjaalton> btw, intel has a lot of patches and is not in git ;)
[08:52] <bryce> yeah yeah
[08:52] <tjaalton> :P
[08:53] <bryce> :-P
[08:53] <bryce> and I'm out next week so who knows if I'll get to it
[08:53] <tjaalton> the ubuntu branch could be handled like debian-experimental is; when debian-unstable is good enough we just sync that and use the ubuntu branch again when needed
[08:54] <tjaalton> oh I can do that, it's not a huge amount of work
[08:54] <bryce> pretty much all the ubuntu changes to -intel have also gone upstream
[08:54] <bryce> same with -ati
[08:55] <tjaalton> yeah, probably
[08:55] <bryce> most if not all were also accepted upstream
[08:55] <bryce> so I *think* everything we have different from debian will be able to just be dropped when we up to latest
[08:56] <tjaalton> hmm, I'll check if intel could be updated on -experimental, at least the git branch. it would be trivial to merge then
[08:57] <tjaalton> experimental has drm-snapshot which means that the new libdrm can't go there
[08:57] <tjaalton> so i'm not sure if drm-snapshot is good for -intel
[08:57] <tjaalton> but will ask jcristau 
[08:57] <tjaalton> oh, I just did
[09:30] <bryce> nite
[09:30] <tjaalton> night
[09:36] <tseliot> night
[10:03] <Ng> can I somehow make the intel driver pretend that certain outputs don't exist?
[10:03] <tjaalton> see the thinkwikipage
[10:03] <tjaalton> mentioned on the bug
[10:03] <tjaalton> or did you paste it here
[10:09] <Ng> well I used xrandr --output HDMI-1 --off to turn it off, but I would be happiest if it simply didn't show up in the available outputs at all
[10:09] <tjaalton> right, so turn it off on xorg.conf
[10:10] <tjaalton> in
[10:10] <Ng> I flicked through the intel manpage and didn't see options for that
[10:10] <tjaalton> the example xorg.conf on the wikipage has
[10:10] <jcristau> Section "Monitor"\n\tIdentifier "HDMI-1"\n\tOption "ignore"\nEndSection
[10:10] <Ng> oh :)
[10:11]  * Ng hangs head in shame ;)
[10:24] <Ng> ugh, this just isn't working, I'm going to force the whole thing to stay at 1024x768 the whole time
[10:24] <Ng> plugging a projector in after the fact and configuring the displays to mirror just makes X crash afaics
[10:25] <Ng> and once the intel driver has loaded once it never works properly the second time
[10:25] <wgrant>  /win 4
[10:25] <wgrant> Grh.
[11:34]  * Ng wonders if it would make sense for the "Detect Displays" button in gnome-display-properties to go away
[11:35] <Ng> out of interest, what does that button actually do? just look through xrandr outputs for ones that are connected?
[11:50] <Ng> well whatever it does it seems to produce a callback when things have changed, so doing it periodically while the tool is running (and less frequently when the tool isn't running, unless there are power usage implications) would be nice
[11:51] <Ng> "ohai! you has a new output device, want configures?"
[12:12] <wgrant> Ng: Does it not make your screens flicker as the EDID is transferred in-band?
[12:21] <Ng> wgrant: no, but it seems like it does for a lot of people, so scratch that idea ;)
[14:14] <tjaalton> anyone here uses virtualbox?
[14:14] <tjaalton> can't get usb devices to work with it
[14:16] <tjaalton> although usbfs is mounted and vboxusers has access to it
[14:25] <tseliot> tjaalton: can you upload your fstab somewhere?
[14:25] <tjaalton> it should be fine, vboxusers has rw
[14:26] <tjaalton> and I'm on the group
[14:27] <tjaalton> ah
[14:27] <tseliot> did you put something like this in the fstab? none /proc/bus/usb usbfs devgid=85,devmode=664 0 0
[14:27] <tjaalton> yes
[14:27] <tjaalton> found the culprit
[14:27] <tseliot> ?
[14:27] <tjaalton> it has to be enabledd
[14:27] <tjaalton> -d
[14:27] <tjaalton> from the host
[14:27] <tjaalton> um, I mean the image properties
[14:27] <tseliot> hehe right
[14:28] <tseliot> the easiest part
[14:28] <tjaalton> first I tried to use the -ose edition
[14:28] <tjaalton> no go
[14:29] <tseliot> I guess USB support is only for the non oss edition
[14:29] <tjaalton> yep
[14:30] <tjaalton> vbox faq didn't mention that
[14:36] <tjaalton> oh well, nokia pc suite doesn't work with it so..
[14:37] <tjaalton> apparently fixed in vbox 2.1
[14:39] <Ng> tjaalton: for syncing or firmware upgrades?
[14:39] <tjaalton> Ng: both
[14:39] <tjaalton> I'd like to get rid of xp
[14:39] <tjaalton> er, the partition that is
[14:39] <Ng> tjaalton: fwiw I'd be very wary of doing the latter via virtualised windows
[14:39] <tjaalton> well, I'll just wait until someone tests that :)
[14:39] <Ng> I nearly bricked my N95 upgrading the firmware via vmware
[14:39] <tjaalton> with 2.1
[14:39] <tjaalton> oh?
[14:40] <Ng> it seems like the devices get put into a simple bootloader state which can receive the firmware image, and then it restarts with a different USB id, gets confirmation of something from the host, and then boots normally
[14:41] <Ng> something about the USB interaction with linux meant the phone thought it had failed and went into a loop
[14:41] <Ng> the upgrade tool would just see that and upload the firmware again
[14:41] <Ng> and it didn't seem to be able to continue the process from another computer, the nokia software doesn't seem capable of noticing the bootloader and continuing from that point in the process
[14:42] <Ng> I only got out of the loop by very carefully yanking the USB cable at a particular point in the cycle ;)
[14:43] <Ng> similarly I can't upgrade my iphone's firmware via vmware, it also seems to do some sneaky USB ID magic on reboot, which gets lost in the handover from linux to windows, and so the firmware just gets written again
[14:43] <Ng> thankfully itunes is able to recover a device in that state, so I could do it properly from a real windows machine ;)
[14:43] <tjaalton> pc suite will get scrapped in the not-too-distant future, so hopefully the next one is better
[14:43] <Ng> I hear nokia are mostly moving to over-the-air upgrades anyway?
[14:43] <tjaalton> yeah, probably
[14:45] <tjaalton> heh, looks like logitech harmony remotes have the same problem
[14:50] <tjaalton> oh, there's native support for it now (concordance/congruity)
[14:53] <tjaalton> I'll just have to package those :)
[15:17] <tjaalton> already done and available on revu, great
[15:20] <Ng> win :)
[15:20] <Ng> maybe I should get one of those, but unless they can do PS3 style bluetooth remote too, it's a bit pointless ;)
[15:21] <tjaalton> that's why I'm getting a PS3IR-PRO
[15:21] <tjaalton> it translates ir-commands to bluetooth
[15:22] <tjaalton> I'd just need someone from the US to get one for me before UDS ;)
[15:22] <tjaalton> shipping & customs would make it a bit pricey
[15:23] <tjaalton> the harmony database has the device, so setting it up should be a breeze
[15:23] <tjaalton> (bought my own PS3 yesterday :)
[15:50] <Ng> tjaalton: get one shipped to the UDS hotel? :)
[15:50] <Ng> (I'm going to be at this UDS \o/ )
[15:50] <tjaalton> Ng: that might work
[15:50] <Ng> I didn't know such a thing existed, how much are they?
[15:50] <tjaalton> cool :)
[15:50] <tjaalton> $100
[15:50] <Ng> ouch
[15:50] <tjaalton> yep
[15:50] <Ng> on top of a Harmony, that's an expensive setup to avoid a few remote controls ;)
[15:51] <tjaalton> not much competition there, ir2bt revised their model and now it's $150
[15:51] <Ng> I'm getting so annoyed by the problems with my new TV PC that I'm going to get upnp transcoding going and just use the PS3 to watch media
[15:52] <tjaalton> I'm thinking about doing the same
[15:52] <Ng> I'd recommend mediatomb for the upnp server. ushare and gmediaserver are both a bit too basic. mediatomb won't melt your heart with awesomeness, but at least it works ;)
[15:53] <tjaalton> I've got a QNAP TS-409 which has twonkymedia, works great
[15:53] <tjaalton> once vdr can write mpeg-ts, PS3 can play those directly
[15:53] <tjaalton> 1.7 should be able to
[15:53] <Ng> interesting
[15:54] <Ng> hmm, isn't DVB already -ts?
[15:54] <tjaalton> yes, but the format vdr has used is kinda special
[15:54] <Ng> ah
[15:54] <tjaalton> file format I mean
[15:55] <Ng> well fwiw with appropriate magic in the mediatomb config, you can do transcoding, so any appropriate source that ffmpeg/mplayer/vlc/whatever can process, is fine
[15:55] <Ng> I'm going to play with some online sources :)
[15:55] <Ng> I happen to know of some secret URLs to bbc x.264 streams ;)
[15:55] <tjaalton> hehe
[18:52] <tjaalton> hmm, VDPAU..
[18:54] <superm1> lots of chatter about VDPAU in #mythtv at least atm 
[18:57] <tjaalton> I can imagine :)
[18:59]  * bryce waves
[19:00] <superm1> even patches for ffmpeg mplayer.. wow     ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/vdpau/mplayer-vdpau-3076399.tar.bz2
[19:16] <pwnguin> when is uds?
[19:17] <jcristau> something like 8-12 dec, iirc
[19:17] <bryce> dec 8-12
[19:18] <pwnguin> nuts
[19:19] <pwnguin> just got a new job (promotion really); so it seems while i can afford a trip to mountain view, i cant get the time off =)
[21:31] <tjaalton> what was the command again to print out the key definitions of the current keymap?
[21:34] <jcristau> 'xkbcomp -xkb :0 -' ?
[21:39] <tjaalton> yeah that's the one, thanks
[21:39] <tjaalton> looks like I got the fix for bug 272606 completely backwards :)
[23:39] <bryce> jcristau: have you looked at bringing in libdrm 2.5.1 so far?
[23:40] <jcristau> there's already a drm snapshot in experimental, and i can't update libdrm in sid before lenny.
[23:43] <bryce> jcristau: ok