[00:10] <rrittenhouse> I'm looking at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/297940 but I'm not sure what direction to take this bug. Any suggestions?
[00:14] <ogra> rrittenhouse, linux-image-386 is built for arches < 586
[00:14] <ogra> the -generic one is only >= 586
[00:15] <rrittenhouse> ogra: Is that an opton for him to choose on the cd?
[00:15] <ogra> no
[00:16] <ogra> its expected behavior that 486 wont boot from the CD
[00:16] <rrittenhouse> Is there any (easy) solution for booting in his situation?
[00:16] <rrittenhouse> or should I just give him the bad news :P
[00:17] <ogra> netboot if he has a netboot capable NIC
[00:17] <rrittenhouse> ooh good point
[00:17] <ogra> the install guide is definately wrong though
[00:17] <ogra> thats what i would assign it to
[00:18] <rrittenhouse> so ubuntu-docs ?
[05:24] <charles_> Hew: ping
[05:24] <Hew> charles_: pong :-)
[05:25] <charles_> Hew: there are quite a few other Transmission tickets that are fixed upstream, if you'd like to mark them as "Fix Committed" too
[05:26] <Hew> charles_: Ah, excellent. Yes, there is an ongoing debate over the use of Triaged vs Fix Committed for these, but I'll have a look at them. Thanks again for the fix(es)!
[05:26] <charles_> do you want links?  :)
[05:28] <Hew> charles_: Yes please
[05:28] <charles_> lots of them are still listed as "new", so either Triaged or Fix Commmitted would be an improvement
[05:28] <Hew> charles_: yes it would.
[05:30] <charles_> tickets fixed upstream: 295040 287726 290828 292929 291205 281530 292011
[05:30] <charles_> thanks
[05:30] <Hew> charles_: thank you :-)
[05:34] <charles_> Hew: one more: 290423
[05:34] <charles_> g'nite
[05:35] <Hew> charles_: hehe, thanks. nite.
[07:38] <rrittenhouse> When brightness function keys don't work on Ubuntu what approach should I take?
[07:38] <rrittenhouse> like in a bug report
[07:39] <rrittenhouse> or this one for instance: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/289509
[07:57] <Hew> rrittenhouse: is that the same bug you are experiencing? g-s-d causes lag when you use the brightness buttons?
[07:57] <rrittenhouse> I have experienced it on my aspire one before but its not too consistent
[07:58] <rrittenhouse> I'm just trying to learn a little more triaging and I'm looking at ones that I can relate to
[07:59] <rrittenhouse> I do however have issues sometimes with the box never being drawn until i play with the brightness keys some more
[08:00] <Hew> rrittenhouse: Well with this problem, when it happens, check to see if any processes are using a lot of CPU time. This bug report says it's caused by gnome-settings-daemon.
[08:00] <rrittenhouse> oh..
[08:00] <Hew> rrittenhouse: If this is the case for you too, add a comment saying the same happens with the brightness keys since that's additional helpful info. Then confirm the bug and subscribe yourself.
[08:01] <rrittenhouse> Hew, actually change it to confirmed? :P never done that yet.
[08:01] <Hew> rrittenhouse: Also this bug is not associated with a source package. It is likely a problem with g-s-d as mentioned by the reporter. You can try doing this.
[08:01] <Hew> rrittenhouse: If you can confirm you have the same bug, then yes
[08:01] <rrittenhouse> k
[08:02] <Hew> rrittenhouse: Like I said, if you can reproduce the problem and see it's due to high CPU usage from g-s-d, then that's confirmation and you should mark it as such.
[08:02] <rrittenhouse> Ok. I won't do it YET until it happens again
[08:02] <rrittenhouse> It's happened 2-3 times in the past week though I just didn't think much of it.
[08:02] <Hew> rrittenhouse: ok
[08:03] <Hew> rrittenhouse: Have you joined the bugsquad? If you're interested in helping with bug triage then there is a lot of info on how to get started.
[08:04] <rrittenhouse> Yeah I should be a member on LP. I'm doing the 5-a-day now. Well I already did my 5 for yesterday so I'm trying to get 5 more in before going to bed :P
[08:07] <rrittenhouse> I see how great the need is for trying to wrangle these bugs so I'm trying to learn as much as I can while getting other people involved as well. Its one way I can show my appreciation for Ubuntu and I can learn more in the process.
[08:08] <Hew> rrittenhouse: That's right. Bug triage is a great way to help out :-)
[08:09] <rrittenhouse> :D It's the "dirty work" but someones gotta do it.
[08:09]  * Hew will be back later
[08:09] <rrittenhouse> k
[08:41] <phillip_> hi, where would be the best place to follow up on a bug submitted? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/297545,
[08:43] <BUGabundo2> phillip_: that's a dupe
[08:43] <BUGabundo2> is it PPTP?
[08:44] <phillip_> yes pptp
[08:44] <phillip_> no pptp connection via manager works, from console I can conect
[08:44] <BUGabundo2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/284212/
[08:44] <BUGabundo2> see this
[08:44] <BUGabundo2> bah
[08:44] <BUGabundo2> not that
[08:44] <BUGabundo2> let me get the correct
[08:44] <phillip_> lol
[08:44] <phillip_> many thanks, I also found a new bug with wireless nic after kernel upgrade in intrpid
[08:44] <BUGabundo2> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-pptp/+bug/259168
[08:44] <phillip_> i'll submit today
[08:44] <BUGabundo2> this is the correct
[08:45] <BUGabundo2> mark yours as a dupe on this one, if you see fit
[08:45] <BUGabundo2> phillip_: always check for already open bugs
[08:45] <BUGabundo2> before opening new ones!
[08:45] <phillip_> my mistake, thanks will mark as sugested
[08:47] <phillip_> heh, some nasty comments from some
[08:49] <phillip_> any ideas on how long till a 'true fix' becomes available not a work around?
[08:53] <Laibsch> good morning
[08:54] <Laibsch> I wonder about the quality of people being allowed to do bug triaging lately.
[08:54] <Hobbsee> why in particular?
[08:55] <Laibsch> There are quite many that just jump in without any questions, don't understand things and change and close bugs just on their (incorrect notion of what they see in a bug)
[08:55] <Laibsch> Many of them apparently try to maximize the number of close bug tickets instead of trying to actually fix bug
[08:55] <Laibsch> s
[08:56] <Hobbsee> welcome to 5-a-day...
[08:56] <Laibsch> Today I was frustrated about bug 219944
[08:56] <BUGabundo2> I agree Laibsch
[08:56] <BUGabundo2> it can happen quite a few times!
[08:56] <Hobbsee> oh, wow.
[08:56] <Laibsch> Well, what can we do about assuring the quality of bug triagers?
[08:57] <Laibsch> Hobbsee: He just jumped in and closed the bug as invalid!
[08:57] <Laibsch> I guess for a mix of reasons a) maybe he did not understand it and b) it was old
[08:57] <Laibsch> or something like that
[08:57] <Hobbsee> Laibsch: they're *very* new.
[08:57] <Laibsch> who is they?
[08:57] <Laibsch> the bug or the guy?
[08:58] <Hobbsee> the guy
[08:58] <Hobbsee> not that that excuses them, but most people aren't *quite* that shocking.
[08:58] <Laibsch> Yes, I saw he was still new in the team
[08:58] <Hobbsee> Laibsch: is that your bug, or?
[08:59] <Laibsch> I think it would be necessary to actually demonstrate having done good bug triaging *and* going through a phase where they aren't yet allowed full privs
[08:59] <Laibsch> Yes, that is mine
[08:59] <Laibsch> Thank good
[08:59] <Laibsch> I guess it would pay to look through the other bugs touched by that guys last night
[08:59] <Hobbsee> Laibsch: well, anyone can mark bugs invalid - but for triaged, etc, that's exactly what people can do.
[08:59] <Laibsch> I'm sure there are more gems like that
[08:59] <Laibsch> Oh, can they?
[08:59] <Hobbsee> Laibsch: either way, you might talk to heno / bdmurray about that, as that's likely where your biggest forms of opposition are
[09:00] <Hobbsee> oh yse
[09:00] <Laibsch> I've been a bug triager so long, I didn't think that was the case
[09:00] <Hobbsee> people can change statuses, assign, subscribe others, do any of that
[09:00] <Hobbsee> the only thing they *can't* do is importance, or make it 'triaged'
[09:00] <Hobbsee> Laibsch: did you dist-upgrade, and then find the system unbootable?
[09:00] <Laibsch> opposition to what?  to allowing people to the bug squad team freely?
[09:01] <Hobbsee> opposition for making sure people have more clue, before letting them loose on the big wide world of bugs, perhaps.
[09:01] <Hobbsee> not that they can do anything if the person is determined to, of course
[09:01] <Hobbsee> but i don't think that guy falls in that category
[09:01]  * Laibsch is seriously considering an RFE against LP that closing bugs as invalid only be done by a) the OP, b) the package maintainer or c) bug squad and other sufficiently empowered individuals
[09:02] <Laibsch> Hobbsee: I think what happened was the following
[09:03] <Laibsch> I have a vserver in remote data center
[09:03] <Hobbsee> Laibsch: all of those types of bugs tend to take at least 6 months to be done,ifnot longer, FYI.
[09:03] <Laibsch> Since space was at a premium, I did not install ubuntu-minimal because that really is not so minimal at all
[09:03] <Laibsch> yes, I am not impatient on that one, don't worry
[09:04] <Hobbsee> and then dist-upgraded it?
[09:06] <Laibsch> What I *think* happened is that ubuntu changed from sysvinit to upstart.  upstart should have been pulled in by ubuntu-minimal, but it wasn't.  So, the only thing that happened was that sysvinit was dropped, probably it lost its essential status or something.  That meant no bootup-scripts and thus a non-bootable system when after a year or so, the system was rebooted by the datacenter admins
[09:06] <Laibsch> Hobbsee: I usually just use aptitude
[09:06] <Laibsch> AFAICS, there is not need for the dist-upgrade command
[09:07] <Hobbsee> Laibsch: well, if you're going to remove critical meta-packages, then you are pretty much saying "i will control this on my own"
[09:07] <Laibsch> But I am not even sure this was related to a newer release series
[09:07] <Hobbsee> also, the dist-upgrade tool has hints.
[09:07] <Laibsch> Hobbsee: I knkow
[09:07] <Hobbsee> so, enotabug imo
[09:07] <Laibsch> I know I am going in deep
[09:07] <Laibsch> Well, not a bug in the strictest sense, maybe
[09:07] <Laibsch> But I think ubuntu could do better
[09:08] <Laibsch> and efforts should be spent towards that goal
[09:09] <Hobbsee> update-manager should check, though, and force ubuntu-minimal to be installed.
[09:09] <Hobbsee> but i think it probably does anyway.
[09:09] <Hobbsee> how?  By including a metapackage that almost no one will remove, labeled specifically, about "this depends on the core stuff needed to run"
[09:11] <Hobbsee> the rest of the triage things don't look that bad
[09:13] <Hobbsee> Ubuntu could possibly do better, in not letting you shoot yourself in the foot, at all.
[09:13] <Hobbsee> but if that were the case, then you wouldn't be able to cut down the install :)
[09:36] <Laibsch> yes, the rest he did seems to be good
[09:36] <Laibsch> I checked myself because I was worried
[09:36] <Laibsch> Unlike I thought, it really seems to have been a one-time glitch on his part
[09:36] <Laibsch> But the quality of fellow bug triagers is really deteriorating.
[09:37] <Laibsch> Hobbsee: answer in the bug report, you should have gotten mail
[09:38] <Laibsch> Hobbsee: as far as solutions are concerned, I've also thought about how balance "don't allow newbies to shoot themselves in the foot" vs. "don't allow power-users" to shoot themselves in the foot ;-)
[09:38] <Laibsch> There were two things that came to my mind and they were close to your ideas
[09:39] <Laibsch> a) ubuntu-bare which cannot be removed and depends on stuff that really anyone will need.  not sure if that will help and is a feasible solution
[09:40] <Laibsch> b) recommend instead of depends for not-so-core-stuff like hw detection and dhcp clients, etc.  installing recommended packages is the default by now afaik.  I am afraid this will just shift the package since I already see the package maintainer closing the next bug with "why did you remove recommended package XY, your SOL, then"
[09:41] <Laibsch> the problem is that people who need to boot from usb HD for example do indeed depend on hw detection
[09:41] <Laibsch> maybe ubuntu-minimal could be split up according to three or four use-cases
[09:46] <Laibsch> s/shift the package/shift the problem/
[10:08] <persia> Laibsch, Better to look at the contents of ubuntu-minimal, and if there's something that's really not minimal, file a bug against ubuntu-meta with a recommendation of to where it should migrate (e.g. standard, desktop, server, etc.)
[10:08] <Laibsch> I am sure there is a good reason for all of those packages
[10:09]  * Laibsch inspects what packages are available
[10:09] <Laibsch> met-packages
[10:09] <Laibsch> meta-packages
[10:11] <mikes80> I'm assigning bugs to their correct packages, and I've found one related to an ATI card. The driver for which has been downloaded from the web. Would the devs still deal with this bug? If not how do I deal with it?
[10:12] <mikes80> bug 298310
[10:13] <persia> mikes80, General practice is to ask for reproduction with the supplied drivers, or for the submitter to submit upstream.  Ubuntu can't support code not in the Ubuntu repositories.
[10:14] <mikes80> Okay thanks. I'll let the reporter know. :)
[10:14] <Laibsch> persia: looking at the description of ubuntu-minimal, I guess none of the packages in depends can be removed
[10:14] <Laibsch> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/ubuntu-minimal
[10:14] <Laibsch> It's just that ubuntu-minimal isn't really so minimal
[10:16] <persia> Laibsch, Which of those functions don't you need?
[10:19] <Laibsch> hardware detection, network
[10:19] <Laibsch> that pulls in an awful lot of stuff
[10:19] <persia> Well, you need hardware detection to cold-boot cleanly.
[10:19] <jmarsden> Laibsch: Have you looked at minibuntu? http://ubuntu-mini-remix.crealabs.it/  It might be a starting point for you??
[10:20] <Laibsch> persia: I am not sure I need hw detection
[10:20] <Laibsch> maybe some of it
[10:20] <Laibsch> but certainly not USB/hal
[10:20] <persia> I can see dropping bits like aptitude or tasksel, as there is apt-get, and I can see having fewer troubleshooting tools (e.g. netcat).
[10:20] <Laibsch> jmarsden: I'll take a look, thanks
[10:21] <persia> Laibsch, Your hardware doesn't have anything on USB?
[10:21] <Laibsch> This is a vserver
[10:21] <Laibsch> no real hw
[10:21] <Laibsch> remote vserver
[10:21] <persia> Oh, yeah, a vserver probably doesn't need that much.
[10:21] <persia> Well, depends on the implementation : some virtual servers have hotplug of stuff from the host, but in the common case it's unlikely.
[10:21] <Laibsch> I'll have to shave now
[10:21] <jmarsden> Hmmm, how big is a minimal JeOS VM?
[10:22] <persia> I'd recommend chatting with the folk in #ubuntu-virt : there might be a smaller solution.
[10:22] <Laibsch> I will see what packages ubuntu-minimal would pull in that I dont have currently installed.
[10:22] <persia> jmarsden, ubuntu-minimal was specifically designed to enable JeOS type stuff.
[10:22] <persia> Laibsch, Also, the issue might be with one of the packages depended upon, rather than the metapackage : perhaps something has Receommends set too widely.
[10:27] <goat|lappy> hi, i've marked a bug as a duplicate of an earlier identified bug, but have noticed there this is more information in the dup as is in the master and wonder if it would be better to drop the duplicate as a duplicate (if thats possible) then switch the roles?   or is this necessary?
[10:28] <Hobbsee> goat|lappy: that's probably a good idea, if you're sure that the other definitely does have more info.  Or you could copy the info over to the master, depending on how much it was.  Leaving a comment about what you're doing is recommended either way, though
[10:29] <goat|lappy> !279187
[10:29] <Hobbsee> goat|lappy: bug 279187
[10:30] <goat|lappy> the dup has more info, but is undecided, i don't think i have the auth to change that, but i think it should be the master
[10:31] <goat|lappy> so i've removed the dup, and am switching, thanks Hobbsee
[10:33]  * Hobbsee wonders what the extra info actually is
[10:41] <goat|lappy> in the review, the references to usplash binary, some dmesg info, and attachments,  the other references kernel output, but no confirmation of it being kernel related.  are you refering to those bugs?
[10:43] <goat|lappy> i think that the usplash bug is more clear, but the kernel bug also has some info's... file attachments and such, is there a method to port the affected packages severity and files to the new bug, if necessary?
[10:54] <Hobbsee> goat|lappy: they can be manually set - there's no 'port' as such
[12:08] <LimCore> why there is no -dbg info for many programs :[
[12:08] <LimCore> I need dbg info for kdesu
[12:08] <BUGabundo> LimCore: you need to add the ddeb repo
[12:09] <BUGabundo> it has dbg for all main and univeverse
[12:10] <LimCore> cool
[12:10] <BUGabundo> deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/ddebs/ hardy main universe
[12:11] <BUGabundo> LimCore: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[12:12] <bdrung> ping bdmurray. my membership in ubuntu-bugcontrol is expiring.
[12:16] <LimCore> btw - why this wiki (and still so many materials) reference apt-get instead of aptitude
[12:20] <BUGabundo> LimCore: aptitude is just another front end for APT...
[12:20] <BUGabundo> I guess no reason speciall
[12:20] <BUGabundo> they all do almost the same stuff....
[12:20] <BUGabundo> some like one, some others!
[12:21] <BUGabundo> I never use aptitude but I use apt-get/cache a lot
[12:22] <LimCore> it was a popular opinion that aptitude is best because it marks and auto-deltes later auto selected libs when they are no longer needed etc.  If so.. then perhaps just make apt-get do the same?
[12:23] <BUGabundo> apt-get autoremove ??? lol
[12:23] <BUGabundo> when you install something or remove something apt-get show that you have packages that you no longer need!
[12:23] <BUGabundo> apt-get autoremove will remove them
[12:23] <LimCore> so, apt-get now is as good as aptitude in this area then?
[12:23]  * Hobbsee isn't so much of a fan of how aptitude's more happy to let users shoot themselves in the foot.
[12:26] <LimCore> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdesudo/+bug/298354
[12:27] <LimCore> that is obviously most epic bug I found today - the program tries to access 18446744073709551615 elements in a list of strings (so far), no wonder this loop takes so long it seems to hang heh
[12:28] <LimCore> any instructions how to quickly grab source of it,  patch code (I will add some debug info) rebuild etc?   just apt-get source kdesu  ... vim ... make install  or something more clever?
[12:28]  * Hobbsee thought persia answered you with that, a couple of days ago.
[12:30] <persia> LimCore, debuild -b gives a quick&dirty build.  Using something like sbuild or pbuilder will have better results.
[12:30] <persia> Which package is best for an unspecified bug about suspend/resume?  Is "linux" a good choice?
[12:30] <LimCore> I don't see that conversation in this month's log
[12:31] <LimCore> thx
[12:31] <Hobbsee> LimCore: #ubuntu-motu.
[12:31] <Hobbsee> a couple of days ago
[12:31] <Hobbsee> persia: errr....i think so.
[12:31] <persia> Hobbsee, Thanks.  I'll go with that then.
[12:31] <Hobbsee> persia: i think they know which logs to ask for, and can send it elsewhere, if it's not for them
[12:32] <persia> That makes sense.  Just have a laptop tester in #ubuntu-testing, and the usual crowd isn't about, so I'm a little lost :)
[12:34] <LimCore> Hobbsee: oh right - but I apparently left before I seen reply.      [Fri Nov 14 2008] [00:13:22] <LimCore>  hi, is there a quick instruction how to get sources, apply my fix, and rebuild/test/etc one
[12:34]  * LimCore tries to debug this bug
[12:44] <LimCore> for me kdesu ALWAYS hangs (8.04 amd64) and shows   ASSERT: "i <= nodes" in /usr/share/qt3/include/qvaluelist.h (376)  can you confirm for me bug  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdesudo/+bug/298354
[13:26] <LimCore> ok there seems to be a lot of strange bugs in kdelib.  I need some help here
[13:27] <LimCore> 1) kdesudo is using acient qt3   2) qt3 acts very strange when using QString   this seems to be causing bug above   more info: http://pastebin.com/f58849d3e
[13:29] <thekorn> LimCore, I think it's best to add this informations to the bugreport as a comment
[13:29] <thekorn> and maybe contact people in #kubuntu-devel,
[13:30] <thekorn> and ask questions there, as they might know more about it
[15:57] <nemo> Hey, what is needed to get bug #273451 out of Incomplete?
[15:58] <nemo> I and others have added Xorg logs, lspci info, and dmesg fragments
[15:58] <nemo> granted, it only happened recently for a few of us, so perhaps it is also a regression
[15:59] <persia> nemo, If the last requested information has been added, feel free to adjust the status from "Incomplete" to "New".
[15:59] <nemo> I don't have rights :)
[15:59]  * nemo is just a user
[15:59] <persia> You've tried to change it?
[15:59] <nemo> I didn't file it
[16:00]  * persia thinks everyone has rights to move from "Incomplete" to "New"
[16:00] <nemo> I'm the last 2 comments by "Derek"
[16:00] <nemo> oh?
[16:00] <nemo> oops
[16:00] <nemo> my bad :)
[16:00] <nemo> persia: well, now I know. thanks :)
[16:00] <persia> You do have permission then?  Cool.
[16:01] <persia> Yeah.  There's no automated system to switch it back.  Sometimes people notice that data has been added to make something incomplete, but sometimes they don't.
[16:01] <persia> There are *lots* of people who look for New bugs though, and try to make sure they have all the information they need.
[16:02] <persia> If you're sure that it has all the information needed to debug, and that multiple people encounter it, or the specific hardware is known, or what not, you could set it to "Confirmed".
[16:02] <persia> If you're not entirely sure, "New" will invite someone else to look.
[16:03] <persia> There's another bunch of people (with some overlap) that look at "Confirmed" bugs, and try to make sure that specific solution can be identified to make them "Triaged", but that does require special permissions.
[16:03] <nemo> persia: what makes me hesitate is the sudden influx of comments - pretty sure it is people like me who've been googling for the dmesg/xorg log strings
[16:03] <nemo> persia: something happened recently in Ibex that !@#$ed up the Intel cards bad :(
[16:04] <persia> But what is still unknown?
[16:04] <nemo> I've reverted back to .24 on the off-chance it helps (27-7 also screwed up).
[16:04] <persia> Yeah.  "New" is probably better then.
[16:04] <nemo> Yeah, I suppose if I was really dedicated I'd look to see what that dmesg error meant :)
[16:05] <persia> heh.  That would make you a triager, and you'd be able to confirm it :)
[16:05] <nemo> it doesn't completely freeze up the machine as some say, X may actually recover in low-graphics mode, and you can always ssh in to reboot.
[16:05] <persia> Well, assuming you're running an ssh server...
[16:05] <nemo> I do know I'm going to hold off on bumping my relatives up to Ibex until this one is out of the way.
[16:06] <nemo> oh, and this is a bit weird (if I have some time to sit down with the misbehaving comp I'll try to confirm) but I'd swear Firefox triggers it.  some graphics issue with cairo?
[16:06] <nemo> all too fuzzy to put in the bug though
[16:07] <persia> Yeah.  If it's still that unclear, it's definitely "New".  The trick is to keep bouncing it from "New" to "Incomplete" until there's enough information to identify the issue.
[16:08] <persia> When it goes to "Incomplete", one of the people experiencing the problem needs to add something.  When it goes to "New" one of the people tracking down the problem needs to add something.
[18:21] <ToHellWithGA> when i resume from suspend on a macbook i get wacky behavior for wireless (it doesn't ever want to connect) and touchpad (as if multiple fingers were confusing the touchpad any time i touch it at all)
[19:35] <mikes80> I'm triaging bug 298275. I requested additional information from the reporter and assigned the bug to the correct package. The reporter introduced a separate but potentially linked bug. I'm assuming this needs to be filed as a separate bug report. Could someone check it for me please.
[19:38] <chrisccoulson> i haven't looked at it yet, but as a general rule, there should only be one issue per bug report
[19:38] <chrisccoulson> otherwise it just gets unmanageable
[19:38] <mikes80> That's what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation :)
[19:39] <chrisccoulson> you're welcome
[19:59] <LaserJock> anybody know of good resources for debugging audio problems?
[19:59] <nellery> LaserJock: does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems work?
[20:00] <LaserJock> nellery: well, not quite
[20:01] <LaserJock> my problem is that lately my sound doesn't come back on resume
[20:01] <LaserJock> I assume it's some sort of driver issue or something but I don't really know how to track it down or fix it
[20:01] <nellery> ah
[20:01] <nellery> perhaps the forums would be the best place
[20:07] <LaserJock> well, somebody on the forums just wrote a script to unload and reload the driver
[20:08] <LaserJock> but I don't understand quite why it stopped working in the first place
[20:08] <LaserJock> I have a Kubuntu partition and it works just fine
[20:08] <LaserJock> but I wouldn't think driver issue would care what DE you run
[20:09] <LaserJock> so I almost wonder if it's a configuration issue
[20:27] <mikes80> If I feel that an incomplete bug now has enough information, but can't confirm the bug. What should it's status be set to? I thought perhaps 'In Progress' or is this just for developers?
[20:28] <LaserJock> well, for people who are actually working on fixing the bug
[20:29] <LaserJock> mikes80: can you find somebody who can confirm it?
[20:34] <mikes80> I've checked launchpad but can't find any bugs related to this issue. Apart from a web search is there any other way to get a bug confirmed?
[20:36] <LaserJock> mikes80: why don't you just try to repeat it?
[20:37] <LaserJock> mikes80: that's the usual way of confirming it
[20:41] <mikes80> LaserJock: It's samba related bug and I don't have a windows machine to test it with. That's why I wondered if there was a status for bugs awaiting confirmation.
[20:57] <LaserJock> mikes80: perhaps Incomplete would be ok
[20:57] <LaserJock> mikes80: and leave a comment asking for confirmation
[20:57] <chrisccoulson> whats the bug number?
[20:59] <bcurtiswx> hey all, if a person wants a package to be updated from gcc4.2-1ubuntu3 to gcc4.2-3ubuntu3 in HARDY its not in the repositories BUT its to 4.3 in intrepid,
[20:59] <bcurtiswx> whats the best way to make that happen?
[20:59] <chrisccoulson> open a backport request
[20:59] <chrisccoulson> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
[20:59] <bcurtiswx> even if they don't want 4.3 thats in intrepid
[20:59] <bcurtiswx> they only want 4.2-3ubuntu3
[21:00] <chrisccoulson> something like gcc will not be updated to a new upstream version in a stable release unless the release fixes a specific bug
[21:00] <bcurtiswx> which it does
[21:00] <mikes80> chrisccoulson: bug 298177 I left a comment for the reporter stating that it was awaiting confirmation.
[21:00] <bcurtiswx> lemme pull up the bug for you one sec
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> mikes80: are we tracking openoffice 3 bug reports in launchpad?
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> intrepid is only at OO.o 2.4
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> OO.o 3.0 is from a PPA
[21:02] <bcurtiswx> bug #235070
[21:02] <bcurtiswx> that may be easier to understand than my gabber
[21:04] <mikes80> chrisccoulson: Yeah I did notice that. But I got someone to help me with the bug yesterday. They didn't say this would be a problem. Perhaps it is?
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> ping calc
[21:05] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: well, the SRU clamed to fix it
[21:05] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: if that's not the case then it needs to get fixed
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> could you help with the bug mikes80 refers too?^^^
[21:06] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: generally backporting is not for bug fixing
[21:06] <bcurtiswx> LaserJock: yes the janitor said it was upgraded in that package listed.. but that package isn't available to hardy anywhere
[21:06] <bcurtiswx> and intrepid has 4.3
[21:07] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: wait
[21:07] <bcurtiswx> k
[21:07] <CarlFK> when I plug in a firewire dv cam, dmesg shows: [  125.019452] NOTE: The dv1394 driver is unsupported and may be removed in a future Linux release. Use raw1394 instead.
[21:07] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: but just upgrading to 4.3 is *not* the solution
[21:08] <CarlFK> sounds worth reporting.  what package should it be against ?
[21:08] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: 4.2.4-1ubuntu3 should be available in hardy-updates
[21:09] <bcurtiswx> LaserJock: that i know, its 4.2.4-3ubuntu3 thats got the fix
[21:09] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: ok, so we need 4.2.4-3ubuntu3 then
[21:10] <bcurtiswx> LaserJock: yes, so my question is how to request that?
[21:10] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: well, it basically already has been in that bug
[21:11] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: but it needs to get updated apparently
[21:11] <bcurtiswx> LaserJock: yup, and how as a triager, do i help that user out?
[21:12] <LaserJock> bcurtiswx: we might want to set the Hardy task to Triaged or something and then explain that the fix is in 4.2.4-3ubuntu3
[21:12] <bcurtiswx> LaserJock: ok, will do that then.  Thanks for your help! sorry for the confusion
[21:12] <chrisccoulson> there's something not right with that bug report
[21:12] <chrisccoulson> it's got a verification-needed tag on it, which would suggest that there is a package awaiting test in hardy-proposed
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> but there isn;t one
[21:13] <LaserJock> chrisccoulson: yeah, the package apparently got deleted from -proposed
[21:13] <LaserJock> according to the publishing history
[21:13] <LaserJock> my guess is that Martin figured out that it didn't fix the bug
[21:14] <LaserJock> but we need a replacement upload that *does* fix it, 4.2.4-3ubuntu3 I suppose might work
[21:14] <LaserJock> so it should be taged maybe verification-failed
[21:14] <bcurtiswx> LaserJock: so should I do as mentioned previously?
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> Laserjock - it was 4.2.4-1ubuntu3 that got deleted from hardy-proposed
[21:15] <LaserJock> chrisccoulson: exactly
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> it was deleted when it was moved to hardy-updates;)
[21:15] <LaserJock> oh
[21:15] <LaserJock> right
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> that's normal procedure
[21:15] <LaserJock> so hmm
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> the problem is that version of the package doesn't appear to have the fix in
[21:15] <LaserJock> not sure why Martin thought that fixed it
[21:16] <LaserJock> in any case, letting Martin (pitti) or Steve (sbeattie) know would be good
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> right, got it now
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> the fix was in 4.2.4-1ubuntu1, which has now been superseded in hardy by *ubuntu3
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> so the latest version should have the fix in
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> if not, then thats a regression
[21:17] <LaserJock> yeah
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> the fix is still in the latest source for hardy
[21:19] <LaserJock> so why are people reporting still having the problem?
[21:19] <LaserJock> is it a different bug or a bad patch?
[21:19] <chrisccoulson> not sure
[21:19] <chrisccoulson> the patch is definately there though
[21:20] <bcurtiswx> so why isn't it available to hardy users?
[21:20] <chrisccoulson> it is
[21:20] <chrisccoulson> it's in hardy-updates
[21:20] <bcurtiswx> 4.2.4-3ubuntu3 ?
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> 4.2.4-1ubuntu3 is the latest hardy version and that has the patch backported from intrepid
[21:22] <bcurtiswx> really, just for my own sake.  how can i find this out myself?
[21:22] <bcurtiswx> im still learning
[21:22] <chrisccoulson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.2
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> the patch was rolled in to 4.2.4-1ubuntu1, but that has now been superseded in hardy-updates by 4.2.4-1ubuntu3, which still contains the patch
[21:24] <bcurtiswx> sorry for the billion question game... how can you tell the patch is in there?
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> it's in the changelog;)
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> and it's also in the debian/patches directory in the source tree
[21:26] <chrisccoulson> there's actually a typo in the changelog for that patch though
[21:27] <bcurtiswx> i don't see how that patch is in the hardy version
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> the changelog in hardy version 4.2.4-1ubuntu1 has this line: "* Fix PR libgomp/28432. LP: #235070"
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> it's in the hardy version;)
[21:30] <bcurtiswx> ah, that just helps prove my blindness :P
[21:30] <bcurtiswx> ty