[00:38] <emgent> cjwatson: ping
[00:41] <cjwatson> emgent: please leave a message with your ping, I'm about to go to bed
[00:41] <emgent> cjwatson: please wait one moment..
[00:42] <emgent> it`s an urgent issue.
[00:42] <cjwatson> it's also 00:42; please spit it out :)
[00:42] <emgent> hahaha, ok..
[00:42] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: you can't really want to go to bed.  You need to stay up, drinking :P
[04:29] <xTr3m3> Hello
[04:29] <xTr3m3> I have a question for selinux:
[04:29] <xTr3m3> you can not default in ubuntu activate? So it immediately after the installation is already active? :)
[04:50] <jdong> this is not the channel for asking support questions.
[04:51] <xTr3m3> why? devel-users can find the best answer yet
[05:06] <jdong> because this is a channel to be used by developers only for developing Ubuntu itself. No other topics of discussion are allowed.
[05:14] <xTr3m3> ok
[08:10] <sainathas> i want to move my application from one virtual desktop to another through a program. What functions i have to call?How can i do that?
[08:11] <sainathas> is anyone online?
[10:33] <busfahrer> Excuse me, is the default Ubuntu kernel a tickless one?
[10:34] <Hobbsee> i think so
[10:37] <busfahrer> Thank you.
[10:43] <ion_> CONFIG_NO_HZ=y in /boot/config... Not sure whether that’s the setting for that, though.
[16:45] <|DarkSmoke|> hey guys
[16:46] <|DarkSmoke|> i want to compile progs using the debian/rules script
[16:46] <|DarkSmoke|> how do it do that?
[16:46] <|DarkSmoke|> and will it aply the patches from the patches folder automatically?
[16:48] <persia> |DarkSmoke|, I'd recommend asking that in #ubuntu-motu, but you might want to read:
[16:48] <persia> !packaging
[17:25] <soren> I commented on a debian bug that was marked as closed. I got an e-mail back that my input would be forwarded to the appropriate parties, but I don't see my comments on the bug page. Is that expected?
[17:25] <soren> It's been at least 16 hours since I sent my comment, if that matters.
[17:25] <soren> debian bug 500674, fwiw.
[17:26] <Treenaks> soren: Have you asked on #debian-devel? (this is about the Debian BTS right?)
[17:26] <soren> Er...
[17:26] <soren> It appears my browser was caching a bit more eagerly than I expected.
[17:26] <soren> I just tried from a different machine, and now it's there.
[17:26] <soren> Oddness.
[17:26] <Treenaks> soren: it happens
[17:27] <soren> Treenaks: I didn't ask in #debian-devel, no. I wasn't really in the mood for something like that :)
[17:29] <siretart> soren: you mean that mail? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=500674#15
[17:30] <Treenaks> gah.. java--
[17:32] <soren> siretart: That one indeed. I've been checking the page every time I passed my computer, but I always got the cached result (the one without my e-mail in it).
[17:32] <Treenaks> soren: shift-reload ;)
[17:33] <soren> Treenaks: Yeah. I just never expected that to be necessary when I actually navigated away from the page, and the went to the URL again.
[17:33] <soren> Live and learn.
[17:33] <Treenaks> soren: I don't know which caching headers bugs.debian.org sends
[17:33] <soren> Nor do I.
[17:33] <soren> meh
[17:33]  * soren goes to eat
[17:34] <Treenaks> hmm.. only last-modified, not even an etag
[17:34] <Treenaks> your browser shouldn't be caching
[17:36] <Treenaks> (it's allowed to cache it, but it shouldn't, imho)
[17:53] <ScottK> slangasek: What's the process for revisiting release notes?  At release, Bug #290153 was only known to affect one motherboard type (the one I have, of course), but now it looks like a broader problem.  I've re-opened the Ubuntu Release Notes task.  Dunno if that's the right way or not.
[18:19] <fta> how are we supposed to fix arm(el) issues ? i'd like to fix some in packages i maintain but i don't have access to any arm machine, same as hppa/ia64/ppc btw. is armel doomed to be a low grade citizen like those others arches? :(
[18:20] <jpds> fta: There's a new #ubuntu-arm channel.
[18:27] <NCommander> StevenK, ping
[18:27] <fta> jpds, yes, but my question was generic, i assume most of us only have access to i386/amd64, making the other arches unloved by lack of resources, more than by lack of will.
[19:09] <slangasek> ScottK: yep, reopening the bug is fine; is there a precise description of the issue that can be copied into the release notes?
[19:11] <ScottK> slangasek: I think it just needs a more generic title.  The description of the issue is correct, but it's more broad than that.
[19:11] <slangasek> how much more broad?
[19:13] <ScottK> slangasek: I don't see a common thread on the hardware that appears to be affected, so I'm not sure.
[19:14] <slangasek> hmm, ok
[19:25] <gensenx> i need example code to get interface information in c. Where can i find something that prints out interface name and address ?
[19:32] <gensenx> Interface name and hwaddr is no problem but printing the address after ioctl(sockfd, SIOCGIFADDR, &ifreq)...
[19:39] <gensenx> +10 experia for you -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njL34iCt8G8
[19:39] <cjwatson> gensenx: ((struct sockaddr_in *)&ifreq.ifr_addr)->sin_addr.s_addr is a uint32_t with the IP address in network byte order, so run that through ntohl() and then extract the bytes one by one
[19:39] <gensenx> aha
[19:39] <cjwatson> as for example code I'm not sure, Stevens TCP/IP maybe?
[19:39] <gensenx> %02x ?
[19:40] <gensenx> If you have an example id very much like to take a look at it
[19:41] <gensenx> I will need to do byte concatenation on the address as well ?
[19:43] <cjwatson> I don't have an example to hand, sorry
[19:44] <cjwatson> well, conventional IP address format would be %d not %02x
[19:44] <gensenx> cjwatson: i find many pages with Stevens tcp/ip.... hwaddr is %02x, or atleast it works ok
[19:45] <cjwatson> I meant the book
[19:46] <gensenx> ok
[19:46] <cjwatson> hwaddr, sure. I've never seen IP addresses written as 5b.bd.5e.09 rather than 91.189.94.9 though!
[19:46] <Treenaks> gensenx: ISBNs 978-0201633467, 978-0201633542, 978-0201634952
[19:46] <gensenx> Thanks!
[19:47] <Treenaks> cjwatson: some sniffers like print IPs that way (without the '.'s though)
[19:47] <gensenx> cjwatson: String and thong conversions ;)
[19:47] <cjwatson> Treenaks: curious
[19:47] <Treenaks> (+to)
[19:47] <Treenaks> cjwatson: probably just laziness ;)
[19:50] <gensenx> Hmm, can i memcpy ifreq.ifr_addr of size struct sockaddr_in directly to struct sockaddr_in via addr pointer ?
[19:50] <Treenaks> gensenx: this is not really the channel for specific questions like yours, have you tried asking on #c?
[19:51] <gensenx> Requires nick auth, dont like that
[19:51] <ScottK> That doesn't make it less OT for this channel.
[19:51] <gensenx> Id rather search for the answer for a week before authing :=)
[19:52] <gensenx> k
[19:53] <cjwatson> gensenx: try http://www.google.com/codesearch for SIOCGIFADDR; the hit in samba should help you part of the way
[19:53] <gensenx> thank you
[19:54] <cjwatson> well, I tried ioctl SIOCGIFADDR as search terms; refine creatively as needed
[20:02] <gensenx> can anyone help fill in if i pastebin it ?
[20:04] <cjwatson> I was attempting to give you enough material to continue by yourself, not to encourage continuing the conversation here
[20:04] <cjwatson> as the others said, it's off-topic
[20:05] <gensenx> as one other said yes, but im not sure i see how its off topic as im developing for ubuntu as well as all other systems but microsoft ;)
[20:05] <Treenaks> gensenx: this channel is about developing _of_ ubuntu, not _for_ it
[20:05] <gensenx> this is more system-packaging-channel ?
[20:05] <gensenx> ok
[20:06] <cjwatson> as the topic says: "Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu)"
[20:06] <gensenx> My topic row is not so wide that i can see it all
[20:07] <cjwatson> most clients have a /topic command
[20:07] <gensenx> So, i can talk about new apps id like to have ?'
[20:07] <cjwatson> anyway, you know now
[20:07] <gensenx> yes, i think so
[20:09] <gensenx> Whats the difference between "Development of ubuntu, not development on Ubuntu" as the topic sais ?
[20:09] <cjwatson> only if you are volunteering to package them, and even then #ubuntu-motu is the preferred channel for mentoring
[20:10] <gensenx> Im an ultimate mentor
[20:10] <cjwatson> this is the channel where the developers talk to each other about what they are doing, problems they are facing, plans, etc.
[20:10] <cjwatson> it is not a place for people to turn up and ask for help, in general
[20:10] <gensenx> Nice
[20:11] <gensenx> then i can ask why i have no "Computer" or "Trashcan" icons on my Intrepix ibex desktop right ?
[20:11] <cjwatson> no.
[20:12] <cjwatson> bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu, answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu, or any of the other places we make available
[20:13] <gensenx> hmm, reminds me. I need to hand in some bugreports.
[20:13] <gensenx> Some are solvable by Debian people as well
[20:15] <gensenx> What can be the cause of Ubuntu audit not letting the named process chroot like this: ? "Ubuntu1 kernel: [  727.509775] type=1503 audit(1225398891.177:39): operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="r::" denied_mask="r::" fsuid=112 name="/var/named/etc/localtime" pid=6375 profile="/usr/sbin/named""
[20:15] <gensenx> selinux
[20:16] <gensenx> the "name=" is created by root and owned by the process trying to use it
[20:16] <cjwatson> I'm sorry, I'm not sure I'm making myself clear. If you are offering a patch and want to discuss its design, that's fine. If you are asking for help, this is the *wrong place*.
[20:16] <cjwatson> Please use the bug reporting system.
[20:18] <cjwatson> While this channel happens to be otherwise relatively quiet at the moment, we get thousands of bug reports and if everybody asked them here we would just have to move somewhere else, which wouldn't do anyone any good.
[20:18] <gensenx> Yes, its very quiet so i thought i could report some errors on Intrepid
[20:19]  * NCommander pounds his head against a wall
[20:19] <gensenx> cjwatson: if im understanding you correctly i should be a paid coder and not a volonteer to be speaking here ?
[20:20] <cjwatson> No, not at all. Plenty of volunteers talk here, but they're talking about the work they're doing on Ubuntu not using this as a bug reporting channel.
[20:20] <NCommander> gensenx, no, this channel open to any developer, volunteer or coder, but the proper way to handle a bug is ti file one on Launchpad
[20:20] <gensenx> Give me an example of what i could say because im not getting it ?
[20:20] <gensenx> ..
[20:22] <NCommander> gensenx, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug - you need to file your bug on Launchpad
[20:22] <NCommander> Launchpad is the website Ubuntu Developers and contribtors use to collaborate on filing bugs.
[20:23] <cjwatson> for example, on-topic conversations yesterday included whether we should be changing the default for QUILT_PATCHES to make it more friendly to Ubuntu developers working on packages maintained in quilt, and a question from one developer to another about whether a patch to fuse should be forwarded to Debian and if so what it was for so that he could write a sensible bug description
[20:26] <gensenx> cjwatson: Ah, yes, i work closely with Debian people. Then i have an important issue to talk about. It seems Intrepid ibx system allows users of the system to access eachothers home directories. Is this by default ordeal ?
[20:26] <cjwatson> Yes, that is intentional and has been brought up time and again in bug reports.
[20:26] <gensenx> Wow :)
[20:26] <NCommander> cjwatson, that's read-only, not read-write I assume
[20:26] <cjwatson> of course
[20:26] <jcristau> NCommander: ...
[20:26] <NCommander> Good :-)
[20:26] <gensenx> Holy hmm, how secure :)
[20:27] <NCommander> gensenx, Debian is the same way, I have read only access to all home folders
[20:27] <gensenx> Then why dont users login as eachother instead ?
[20:27] <gensenx> Wow, i never seen this. what debian version are you speaking about ?
[20:27] <cjwatson> I posted an extensive comment in bug 48734 and would prefer not to go over it *yet again* here
[20:27] <jcristau> gensenx: all.
[20:31] <NCommander> woo
[20:31] <NCommander> My 100th upload!
[20:31] <gensenx> I must read and cry at the same time then because this "but they are generally run by competent system administrators who know how to lock things down." comment is exactly why systems become insecure. It should be the other way around. Why not a question for this at system install and a small gui that can change this behaviour ?
[20:32] <Treenaks> gensenx: Questions at install time should be kept to a minimum
[20:32] <cjwatson> Security is not just about locking things down as hard as possible. If you take that too far then you find that in practice people work around the oversecurity and create problems as a result.
[20:32] <cjwatson> the intrepid installer (alternate/server anyway; desktop will get this in jaunty) offers to create an encrypted private directory (~/Private/) for you
[20:32] <gensenx> Sure, then add a small gui to allow or not allow users to read eachothers home directory contents. This is bad
[20:33] <gensenx> Default to not allow
[20:33] <cjwatson> I'm not interested in discussing it further; I've had the argument a hundred times and have arrived at this position through experience
[20:33] <cjwatson> sorry
[20:33] <cjwatson> you are of course quite welcome to change the default on your system if you disagree
[20:33]  * NCommander personally agrees with cjwatson 
[20:33] <NCommander> Once security gets to the point that your users are fighting it on a day to day basis, then you end up less secure as a result
[20:34] <Treenaks> gouki_: dpkg-reconfigure adduser already has that configuration option..
[20:34] <Treenaks> uhr
[20:34] <Treenaks> wait
[20:35] <Treenaks> he's gone, nevermind
[20:35] <cjwatson> in my experience, there are two major types of multi-user systems: one is the massive shell account farm types (or university systems, or whatever) that have competent system administrators, and the other is family/friends. I'd rather work to make the latter straightforward since I think they are more common
[20:35] <Treenaks> cjwatson: I agree
[20:36] <cjwatson> I don't care if my wife can read my files; we trust each other :)
[20:36] <Treenaks> cjwatson: as long as "the other way" is documented :)
[20:37] <cjwatson> I believe there's a stock phrase for this approach, something like "crunchy on the outside, soft on the inside" (armadillos!)
[20:37] <Treenaks> heh :)
[20:39] <NCommander> ScottK, ping
[20:40] <NCommander> cjwatson, O_O;
[20:40] <NCommander> cjwatson, got time for a question or two about seeds?
[20:41] <cjwatson> sure
[20:46] <cjwatson> NCommander: ... only if you actually ask them though :)
[20:46] <NCommander> cjwatson, sorry. In seeds, what does it mean when an item is in ( and )
[20:47]  * NCommander is spliting packages out that activate hildon on lpia into properly split packages
[20:47] <slangasek> hrm, why are all instances of monospace "8" being rendered funny in my browser...
[20:48] <cjwatson> NCommander: the germinate(1) man page documents that, I think
[20:48] <cjwatson> NCommander: but briefly, it means that they should be represented using Recommends in metapackages
[20:48] <cjwatson> that syntax is only useful in seeds that have metapackages generated from them
[20:48] <NCommander> ah
[20:48] <NCommander> Makes sense
[20:55] <slangasek> hmm, I suspect that I'm going to tire of typing the word "Jackalope" over the next 6 months
[21:00] <Treenaks> slangasek: time for a new keybinding ;)
[21:01] <slangasek> ctrl-meta-antlers
[21:01] <Treenaks> slangasek: like a true Emacs user :)
[21:01] <slangasek> yes: escape-meta-antlers-control-shift
[21:05] <jdong> ok, whoever touched fontconfig is really mean :)
[21:05] <jdong> skype was not happy with its apparmor profile on subsequent startup.
[21:07] <slangasek> uhm?
[21:09] <slangasek> jdong: apparmor is only enabled by default for specific apps that have been configured for it; how does skype fit into that?
[21:09] <jdong> slangasek: that was my doing. I don't trust skype :)
[21:09] <slangasek> ah
[21:10] <jdong> I didn't foresee its need to regen the fontconfig cache thing though
[21:10] <slangasek> doesn't /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/fonts take care of that, or had you just not included it?
[21:12] <ScottK> NCommander: Pong.
[21:13] <ScottK> jdong: If you get skype figured out, please let me know.
[21:13] <NCommander> ScottK, feel like sponsoring some uploads in a bit?
[21:14] <ScottK> Maybe.
[21:14]  * ScottK is not having a good day, so expect close review.
[21:18] <bryce> whoa, alpha-1 already
[21:19] <bryce> time sure doesn't stand still very well, does it
[21:21] <NCommander> ScottK, question, if I'm reviewing something on REVU, and giving the second +1, and I needed the uploader to make a minor change (a clarifcation in the changelog), do I still need a second +1, or can I use the previous one?
[21:24] <ScottK> NCommander: It's a judgement call.  I'd probably be OK with something that minor.  I also might just change it myself and upload.
[21:24] <NCommander> I had the uploader change it for experience sake
[21:27] <NCommander> ScottK, do I have to send an email to u-mout or u-devel when I sponsor a package from REVU?
[21:41] <ScottK> NCommander: Yes.  Send a copy of the acceptance mail you get back to MOTU ML.  Just add REVU to the start of the subject line.  I generally clean up the formatting a bit, but that's not required.
[21:41] <NCommander> ScottK, did and done
[22:04] <fta> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ <= nice
[22:05] <RainCT> o.O
[22:06] <fta> owned by some guy from Uzbekistan?
[22:06] <RainCT> since when can pages be deleted?
[22:07] <NCommander> RainCT, it wasn't deleted
[22:07]  * NCommander reverts
[22:07] <RainCT> NCommander: uhm.. I only see on revision in the history
[22:08] <NCommander> oh, WTF
[22:08] <NCommander> O_o;
[22:08] <NCommander> now that's a neat trick
[22:10]  * RainCT complains in #canonical-sysadmins.. but it's weekend :(
[22:11] <RainCT> fta, NCommander: ok, it's already being worked on