[11:39] <Edug> hy !!
[11:39] <sereja81> hi
[11:39] <Edug> what is the topic of this room
[11:39] <Edug> ?¿
[11:40] <ogra> Edug, /topic tells you :)
[11:40] <Edug> the tocpic is : Ubuntu for mobilie phone ?¿ 
[11:41] <persia> No, for mobile computers.
[11:41] <ogra> where does it say phone ? 
[11:41] <Edug> for laptops
[11:41] <persia> 7" laptops, UMPCs, handhelds, that sort of thing.
[11:41] <Edug> a okok
[11:41] <persia> Bigger laptops are probably more suited for #ubuntu
[11:41] <persia> As far as I know, Ubuntu only runs on two mobile phones, and doesn't work like a phone properly on either one.
[11:42] <Edug> its posible to put Ubuntu on a PDA
[11:42] <Edug> ?¿?¿
[11:43] <persia> If the PDA has an x86 or powerpc processor, yes.  If the PDA has an ARM processor, in a few weeks.  If the PDA has a MIPS or SH processor, launchpad doesn't support those.
[11:43] <Edug> OK
[11:43] <Edug> One question ?¿
[11:43] <ogra> heh, few weeks is pretty optimistic :)
[11:43]  * persia suspects there are more than one, but waits for it to be asked
[11:43] <ogra> "next release" :)
[11:43] <persia> ogra, Well, alpha.
[11:44] <ogra> i dont think we care about alphas atm
[11:44] <ogra> for arm at least
[11:44] <persia> Hunh?  I've been following #ubuntu-arm, and hadn't heard anything about that.
[11:44] <Edug> Because not all the laptops an desktop pc dosen't work with ubuntu
[11:45] <ogra> david said he's happy if we have something basic but doesnt care about aplhas yet
[11:45] <ogra> Edug, about 10 million users think differently i'd say
[11:45] <persia> Edug, Hrm?  What do you mean?
[11:45] <persia> Edug, I know some hardware doesn't work, but I suspect that's not your question.
[11:47] <Edug> because you con bay a desktop pc with widows and you cant bay a desktop pc with ubuntu ?¿ 
[11:47] <persia> Yes you can.  Lots of companies sell them.
[11:48] <Edug> the most coputers works with windows wahy ?¿ 
[11:48] <Edug> Linux is more chiper than Windows
[11:49] <Edug> I think Ubuntu is not bat 
[11:50] <persia> Oh, yeah.  That's just a matter of what people are buying.  You can always replace it later.
[11:50] <Edug> but Ubuntu dosen't work very well
[11:53] <persia> Hrm?  Which part doesn't work?
[11:54] <Edug> Likes wifi
[11:54] <Edug> Llikes gafic card
[11:55] <persia> Both of those work for me.  If they aren't working for you, I'd suggest filing a bug with details of your exact hardware.
[17:08] <NCommander> persia, context switched.
[17:08] <persia> Right.
[17:08] <persia> So on making lpia les special.
[17:08] <persia> Did I ever give you that package list?
[17:08] <NCommander> Nope
[17:09] <persia> Ah.  Right.
[17:09] <persia> Do you want it right now, or can I give it to you in ~24 hours?
[17:09] <persia> (or better, put it on the wiki in about that time)
[17:10] <NCommander> persia, I was going to open an LP bug with tasks :-)
[17:10] <persia> I don't like doing that as long as there's still the can't unsubscribe bug.
[17:11] <NCommander> can't unsubscribe?
[17:11] <persia> There's a bug in LP that implicit subscribers can never unsubscribe from a bug, even if it doesn't apply to their package.
[17:12] <persia> As a result, opening a bug with lots of tasks tends to send *every* comment to lots of people that don't care.
[17:12] <persia> This tends to annoy them.
[17:12] <NCommander> ah I see
[17:12] <NCommander> How long is this list?
[17:13] <persia> 50-60 packages.
[17:13] <NCommander> O_o;
[17:13] <NCommander> Damn
[17:13] <persia> Yeah.
[17:13] <NCommander> If you email me the list, I'll wikify it
[17:13] <persia> Anyway, I'll get it on the wiki within 24 hours.
[17:14] <persia> Just as easy for me to put it on the wiki as mail it.  I don't have a current one, and need to regenerate.
[17:14] <persia> (and want to stop being on IRC for about 15 hours)
[17:14] <NCommander> ah
[17:15] <NCommander> its just I won't be on much tommorow
[17:15] <persia> Well, I'll get you ten quick ones now then.  Hold up.
[17:21] <persia> cairo-clock, claws-mail, contacts, dates, fbreader, galculator, liferea
[17:21] <persia> Well, 7, because I'm lazy right now.
[17:22] <persia> Those are all likely candidates, based on package history and changelogs.
[17:22] <persia> One or more might be fine, but I suspect they're special.
[17:22] <persia> To do it right, I need to refresh my local package cache for that class of packages, unpack them, and grep in debian/rules, but that takes time.
[17:26] <NCommander> persia, I would have just checked hildons rdepends on lpia and regular :-)
[17:27] <persia> Not every lpia-specific patch has to do with hildon.  Some are considerably more awkward.
[17:27] <NCommander> grepping claws-mail for lpia shows nothing ...
[17:27] <persia> There were a few cases where a .desktop file would be installed iff it was built on lpia.  I think those all got excised for intrepid.
[17:28] <persia> Ah, good.  That one got cleaned up then.
[17:28] <persia> My candidates cache is from somewhere mid-intrepid, which is part of why I wanted to give you the list later.
[17:28] <NCommander> sure, no issue
[17:29] <persia> Anyway, good luck.  Be back in a while.
[17:29] <NCommander> persia, thanks, cya
[18:11] <charlespax> During Jaunty development will there be daily builds of ubuntu-umpc?
[18:12] <persia> Once it's stable enough to make sense, yes.
[18:19] <charlespax> Very good. thanks.
[18:24] <NCommander> persia, do you mind reviewing my changeset for galculator. It's properly split and I get the debs correct, but I'd like just a second eyes to look it over quickly
[18:25] <persia> NCommander, I really want to be asleep, and intend to depart again as soon as I'm done with the current argument.  Subscribe me to the bug, and I'll look at it when I'm properly back.
[18:25] <NCommander> persia, what bug?
[18:27] <persia> Ah.  pastebin it then
[18:27] <persia> My argument doesn't seem to be dying.
[18:28] <NCommander> persia, http://pastebin.ca/1257082
[18:28] <NCommander> er
[18:28] <NCommander> right, you can't access pastebin.ca
[18:29] <NCommander> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/72471/
[18:32] <persia> Looks sane to me.
[18:32] <NCommander> wow
[18:33] <NCommander> When you run a hildonized package in a non-hildon environment
[18:33] <NCommander> it acts weird
[18:34] <NCommander> persia, that, and the icon was MIA :-/
[18:34] <ogra> what did you expect ? 
[18:35] <NCommander> ogra, I had no expectations :-)
[18:35] <ogra> heh
[18:35] <NCommander> I dunno if the icon is missing because of my modifications
[18:35] <NCommander> Or because I don't have Hildon/MID/etc. installed
[18:36] <NCommander> any ideas ogra & persia 
[18:36] <ogra> whats the Icon lne in the .desktop file ?
[18:36] <persia> Probably because you're not running in hildon.  Things are a little different there.
[18:36] <NCommander> ogra, there is a difference in the mobile package to try and load a different icon
[18:36] <NCommander> (which obviously doesn't exist <g>)
[18:37] <persia> NCommander, Check debian/install?  Maybe that needs replication of some sort?
[18:37]  * NCommander is trying to find the mid seed so he can keep a branch with the -mobile changes
[18:37] <ogra> well, hildon isnt as close to xdg standard as it should
[18:37] <NCommander> persia, the only change in the original rules was the sed line
[18:37] <ogra> so if you use the app in a normal xdg compliant desktop it might not work as expected
[18:38] <persia> NCommander, Yes, but remember, you're doing a package split.
[18:38] <NCommander> persia, I make install twice into both packages
[18:38] <NCommander> The file its referencing isn't in this source package
[18:39] <persia> Ah.  Probably some theme package then.
[18:39] <NCommander> Seems so
[18:39] <NCommander> no objections to uploading?
[18:40]  * NCommander is keeping a branch of the seeds package for everything I touch, so once thats merged, mobile is good to go
[18:40] <persia> Best if you could test against MID in a KVM, but no clear objections.
[18:40] <NCommander> I could stage the changes in a PPA
[18:40]  * NCommander notes get getting MID going in a PPA is a PITA
[18:41] <NCommander> s/PPA/QEMU\/KVM/g
[18:43] <ogra> 5 months to fix it
[18:45] <persia> NCommander, The images should just boot in KVM/QEMU
[18:45] <persia> There's a tool to convert for vbox, which which several people have reported success.
[18:45]  * NCommander uploads to his PPA
[18:46] <NCommander> probably easier that way then any other
[18:46] <persia> Just upload it.
[18:46] <persia> Or if you want to test, build it in sbuild/pbuilder/whatever and ssh it to a VM.
[18:46] <NCommander> I have trouble with that last bit
[18:46] <persia> Best is to build natively on a target device, but that requires rare HW.
[18:47] <persia> NCommander, What trouble?
[18:47] <NCommander> getting network to work
[18:47] <persia> In qemu/kvm?
[18:47] <NCommander> I just found my old lpia image
[18:47] <NCommander> This will work
[18:47] <NCommander> yeah
[18:47] <persia> Should just work by default.
[18:48] <NCommander> I usually have to pass some voodoo command line switchs to get it working
[18:56] <NCommander> davidm, ping
[18:56] <davidm> Hello
[18:57] <NCommander> davidm, am I correct in believing your the person in charge of ubuntu-mobile/mid? (your the team owner)
[18:57] <davidm> Indeed I am
[18:58] <NCommander> davidm, to save you the backscroll, I'm working to split out the lpia specific hacks into proper packages (i.e., galacalcator to gacalculator-mobile)
[18:58] <NCommander> So that mid could be installed on a non-lpia architecture
[18:58] <NCommander> Basically, where do you want the bazaar branch w/ the seed changes?
[19:00] <davidm> NCommander, that would be a question best asked of lool, or StevenK.  lool is the tech lead of the project, StevenK does a lot of work on the seeds
[19:01] <davidm> I'm happy to get you an answer but it will take a bit of time lool is not reachable today and StevenK is likely sleeping at this time.
[19:01] <NCommander> davidm, do issues with me uploading before the seed changes are made?
[19:02] <davidm> NCommander, perhaps you should make your own branch of the seed, and propose for merging into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/mobile.Jaunty?
[19:02] <NCommander> have and done already <g>
[19:04] <NCommander> davidm, the only question left is should the split package come out as -mobile, or -mid?
[19:04]  * NCommander notes he feels a little confused between the two
[19:05] <davidm> -mid is screens < 6" and have touch screen with it, -mobile >6" may or may not have touch screen
[19:05]  * NCommander is less confused but still seeks an answer
[19:06] <davidm> Also "MID" is hildonised, mobile is not
[19:07] <NCommander> so Hildon modifications should end up in package-mid and not package-mobile?
[19:08] <davidm> Correct
[19:11] <NCommander> davidm,  This package is specifically configured and designed for Ubuntu Mobile Internet Devices 
[19:11] <NCommander>  and will not functional properly on a normal Ubuntu Desktop installation.
[19:11] <NCommander> That's what I'll add to the bottom of the description
[19:12] <davidm> Ok
[19:13] <ogra> gacalculator-mobile ? 
[19:13] <ogra> why not -hildon 
[19:13] <ogra> if thats the differentiation criteria
[19:14] <NCommander> Not all packages that different on lpia differ because of hildon
[19:14] <NCommander> I'd perfer a consistant naming scheme between packages that are split between normal and mobile/mid
[19:15] <ogra> well
[19:15] <ogra> -umpc does definately not change any packages
[19:15] <ogra> but is a -mobile flavour
[19:16] <NCommander> Well, the current suggestion is -mid
[19:16] <NCommander> But ...
[19:16] <NCommander> :-P
[19:16] <NCommander> if you think its a bad idea
[19:16] <ogra> well, then use -mid as suffix
[19:16] <ogra> i think generalizing on -mobile is bad
[19:16] <NCommander> fair enough
[19:16] <NCommander> ogra, unless you think we should use -hildon?
[19:16] <ogra> thats a team name and describes the set of images
[19:17] <ogra> we might have -netbook at some point for example
[19:17] <davidm> and likely will
[19:17] <ogra> so -mid, -umpc and -netbook would fal under the general term "mobile"
[19:17] <NCommander> I guess the question is if we split a package, do we split it w.r.t to the flavor it belongs to, or the feature(s) we change/enable on that flavor
[19:17] <ogra> but only -mid requires the hildonization
[19:18]  * ogra would go for features
[19:18] <NCommander> so then -hildon?
[19:18] <ogra> well, you said there is more than hildon
[19:18] <NCommander> On some
[19:18]  * ogra doesnt know many
[19:18] <NCommander> This specific package is just changes for hildon
[19:19] <ogra> i think its likely the majority
[19:19] <NCommander> so you perfer -mid over -hildon?
[19:19] <ogra> and imho the source should just spit out a hildonized version where possible
[19:19] <NCommander> The source package?
[19:19] <ogra> i personally prefer -hildon
[19:19] <ogra> to describe the patchset
[19:20] <ogra> yeah, one sourcepackage 
[19:20] <ogra> two binaries
[19:20] <NCommander> right
[19:20] <NCommander> that's what we're doing :-)
[19:20] <NCommander> There is one change beside hildon
[19:20] <ogra> one applies the hildonization and spits out the -hildon package
[19:20] <NCommander> sed -i -e 's/Name=Galculator/Name=Calculator/'
[19:20] <ogra> the other stays as is
[19:20] <NCommander> Fair enough
[19:20] <NCommander> so -hildon
[19:21]  * ogra wanders off for some TV
[19:37] <NCommander> uploaded
[22:06] <charlespax> I flashed the ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img image to a usb disk. Is that more like a regular install or a live CD? I want to know if I do a 'sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade', will the updates be permanent? 
[22:15] <NCommander> Another hildon package bites the dust
[22:16] <NCommander> well, lpia specific
[23:37] <persia> charlespax: The 8.10 images are like a liveCD