[00:12] <Hobbsee> Riddell: you around?
[00:12] <Hobbsee> And other kubuntu UDS'y type people?
[00:18] <seele> hmm?
[00:19] <Hobbsee> seele: this is the friendly reminder about specs, specs, and more specs!

[00:19] <seele> Hobbsee: we've got a meeting tomorrow to discuss UDS stuff
[00:19] <seele> we've got a whole page of to-be-specs :)
[00:20] <Hobbsee> seele: right.  Can you make sure they land on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty/, have a person to talk about them, and get proposed for the meeting, by thursday please?
[00:20] <seele> hmm.. i can try
[00:21] <Hobbsee> seele: the later it gets, the less people get an opportuntiy to subscribe, and the likely higher number of clashes there will be.
[00:21] <Hobbsee> seele: i don't think it matters if they're placeholder specs particularly, either.
[00:24] <seele> ok
[00:25] <Hobbsee> as long as people can kinda see what they are, subscribe to them if they're interested, etc.
[00:34] <Hobbsee> seele: oops.  Apparently they can't be completely placehodler specs.  They need to contain a reasonable amount of information in them.
[00:34] <Hobbsee> although more bits can be added later
[02:31] <ryanakca> to whoever is running the meeting tomorrow: I'll probably be ~20 minutes late (school, etc)... could you please keep my agenda item 'till the end... and if the meeting lasts under 20 minutes / finishes before I get here, oh well, my item can be pushed back / I can take care of it in here some other time... :)
[02:42] <ScottK> Rats.  I got rescheduled for some $WORK stuff tomorrow, so I won't make the meeting.
[03:09] <Hobbsee> nixternal: poor, poor man.
[03:09] <Hobbsee> nixternal: so is that what the friday thing will be for - pennance for those who did use kde, and switched.
[03:10] <ScottK> Friday thing?
[03:11] <Hobbsee> ScottK: nixternal and i are on crew duty for the friday of UDS
[03:11] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:11] <ScottK> Right.
[03:11]  * Hobbsee got like...4...mentions in this blog post.  wow.
[03:12] <DaSkreech> which post?
[03:13] <Hobbsee> http://blog.nixternal.com/2008.11.15/i-will-never-bet-again-day-1-with-gnome/
[03:23] <bfrog> was there patching done to plasma by any chance?
[03:24] <bfrog> its broken in kubuntu
[03:24] <DaSkreech> bfrog: yes there was Small patches
[03:25] <bfrog> well... you see... plasma only shows up on one screen, where as with archlinux (basically plain kde4) it seemed to work just dandy so I can only assume...
[03:26] <bfrog> where should I file a bug at?
[03:26] <bfrog> er I bet I can find it, lemme search
[03:27] <DaSkreech> :-D
[03:27]  * DaSkreech likes bfrog
[03:27] <bfrog> are the patches listed on launchpad?
[03:40] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Yeah I could see that flood coming :) Does anyone read your blog who isnt on Linux?
[04:42] <bfrog> woo hoo
[04:42] <bfrog> all problems solved with kde from backports (kde 4.1.3)
[04:42] <bfrog> I filed a bug though, should I add a comment there about this?
[04:52] <ScottK> bfrog: Yes.
[04:54] <bfrog> awesome, well kubuntu just won me for 8.10. 6 months feels like forever with free software, so much awesomeness in so little time :-)
[04:54] <bfrog> had to switch to arch for awhile there
[12:47] <seele> hmm.. this is going to be a long meeting today
[12:58] <seele> wow the bug list gets lots of mail
[13:11] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: get kdelibs5 from the kubuntu-experimental ppa and check whether KDE 4 apps still work properly in a gnome session
[13:12] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I would assume Riddell runs the meeting, I just take care that the meeting isn't too short :P
[13:12] <apachelogger> seele: I guess that indicates we have a buggy product
[13:13] <seele> apachelogger: most of them are replies, not new bugs :)
[13:14] <apachelogger> seele: I guess that indicates we have a buggy product but do something about it ;-)
[13:15] <seele> :D
[14:00] <apachelogger> why the havok does our gem install to /var/lib/gems/1.8/bin ... and why is that thing not on $PATH
[14:03] <Riddell> you'd need to ask debian-ruby people
[14:04] <Riddell> but if it's anything like python-support then it'll make symlinks from the right places
[14:05] <apachelogger> does not
[14:05]  * apachelogger makes a funny face and installs a non-crippled gem
[14:06] <apachelogger> in fact, dpkg should be replaced by gem, it's better on the memory anyway :P
[14:07] <rgreening> Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuFilesharing - this ever get implemented?
[14:07] <rgreening> If not, we should re-propose for Jaunty
[14:11] <apachelogger> why would anyone use webdav?
[14:11]  * apachelogger thinks we should use sftp, and sftp only
[14:12] <rgreening> apachelogger: WevDev isn't the point here, its file sharing which appears to be missing in Intrepid.
[14:12] <apachelogger> there is a lot of more important stuff missing in Intrepid :P
[14:12] <rgreening> which tells me the spec wasn't implemented and should be re-proposed
[14:12] <apachelogger> filesharing ain't worth anything if you can't even configure your network connection
[14:13] <rgreening> sharing is important for the desktop.
[14:14] <rgreening> bah..
[14:15] <apachelogger> Nightrose: did you try nuking your .amarok-nightly?
[14:15] <Riddell> rgreening: no it didn't
[14:17] <rgreening> Riddell: I added to the specs for Jaunty... perhaps we'll be able to for this sprint
[14:17] <Nightrose> apachelogger: not tried that yet since the last update - will do
[14:21] <Nightrose> apachelogger: OMG!!!!
[14:21] <Nightrose> i have sound again
[14:21]  * Nightrose jumps and hugs apachelogger
[14:22] <apachelogger> \o/
[14:22] <apachelogger> Nightrose: can you dump a mail to the list?
[14:22] <Nightrose> will do
[14:22] <apachelogger> thx
[14:22] <Nightrose> np
[14:22] <Nightrose> thx to you :)
[14:24] <apachelogger> Your membership in motu is about to expire
[14:24]  * apachelogger really feels the love
[14:24] <jjesse> wow i dont understand why i read kubuntu-users sometimes crazy people there
[14:25] <apachelogger> woohoo, aaron also gave his ok on policykit-kde in 4.2 \o/
[14:26] <apachelogger> jjesse: what's new on that list?
[14:26] <jjesse> the fail of kde
[14:26] <jjesse> how kde is now dead according to a blog plost
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> lol
[14:26] <apachelogger> KDE was dead ever since they stopped releasing new KDE 2 versions
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> ya nobody takes those noobers seriously anymore
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> KDE 2.5.98 was TEH SHITZ
[14:27] <apachelogger> well
[14:27] <apachelogger> pre release
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> ya that is bcuz tehy totaly fracked up 2.6.0
[14:28] <apachelogger> nabble is the suck today
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> [/noob]
[14:28] <jjesse> lol
[14:28] <apachelogger> claydoh: is kubuntu-users on the agenda for today?
[14:29] <apachelogger> http://ardchoille.nfshost.com/Blog/20081116
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> black = vista... mumblemumblemumble totally unusable.....
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> nothing I Hvaen't seen before
[14:30] <apachelogger> The System Settings application is nice, but it is a far cry from the features of KControl.
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> s/hvaen't haven't
[14:30] <apachelogger> that statement is so horribly horrible I am crying right now
[14:31] <apachelogger> the only thing systemsettings can not do is chaning the icon size of the modules
[14:31] <jjesse> is there a meeting today?
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> yes
[14:32] <apachelogger> Secondly, the developers who wrote the application should know their code, and if they know their code then they know where all the bugs are.
[14:32] <apachelogger> rofl
[14:32] <apachelogger> <= dying
[14:32] <apachelogger> that statement has kind of a bug, he doesn't know what he writes it appears ;-)
[14:33] <jjesse> at what time is the meeting?
[14:33] <apachelogger> dood
[14:33] <apachelogger> jjesse: topic!
[14:33] <jjesse> apachelogger: topic doesn't show up well in this web based client i'm using today to get around a clients firewall
[14:33] <jjesse> !topic
[14:33] <apachelogger> No, I didn't file any bug reports because that's simply not my job.
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
[14:34] <apachelogger> jjesse: 20 utc
[14:34]  * JontheEchidna cries
[14:34]  * apachelogger has no idea what master Riddell changed
[14:34] <apachelogger> quassel should use parse topic changes with diff :D
[14:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: ubuntu.com -> kubuntu.org, down with the brown
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: s/ubuntu.com/kubuntu.org
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> well if you're logged in you can have your wiki theme set to kubuntu globally
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> :D
[14:35] <apachelogger> ah brown vs. drunk
[14:36] <apachelogger> I can only assume that the reason KDE4 was rushed out the door was that the KDE project had an influx of amateur developers who didn't quite understand software development and how their work would affect their users.
[14:36] <apachelogger> KDE should have a non-ranters clause in the license
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> better yet, make it a eula
[14:37] <apachelogger> then again the question arises, what was there before.. the buggy application or the users who clamed the application is buggy
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> http://xkcd.com/501/
[14:38] <apachelogger> The one thing you don't want to do is force your users to abandon your software and migrate to another project, but this is exactly what I've seen happening since KDE4 was released.
[14:38] <apachelogger> I am wondering how he saw that
[14:38] <apachelogger> we are deploying that product and barely noticed anything like this within the last months
[14:40] <apachelogger> hm, that wasn't worth the time really
[14:46] <jjesse> apachelogger: are those quotes from the blog or from kubuntut-users/
[14:51] <rgreening> ok, who moved the spec while I was editing it... lol
[14:52] <jjesse> i did
[14:52] <jjesse> cause i dont like you
[14:52] <rgreening> hah.. no cab for you.
[14:54] <claydoh> apachelogger: re: kubuntu-users sure
[14:54]  * claydoh forgot the meeting was today
[14:54] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/73871/
[14:54] <apachelogger> opinions?
[14:54]  * apachelogger should blog about KDE @ Dexter
[14:57] <claydoh> apachelogger: +1 :)
[14:57] <Riddell> rgreening: I moved the page
[14:58] <Riddell> rgreening: although it should have warned me if you were editing it
[14:58] <Riddell> rgreening: KubuntuJauntySpecs
[14:59] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ok i take that back
[14:59] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i only seem to be able to play songs from magnatune
[14:59] <Nightrose> this is super weird
[14:59] <rgreening> Riddell: yeah, I thought I accidentally erased everything as when I saved it returned a blank page... almost lost my mind :)
[15:01] <apachelogger> Nightrose: that is weird indeed
[15:01] <apachelogger> Nightrose: please get a console dump and a strace if you have time
[15:01] <Nightrose> ok will try
[15:03]  * NCommander hit kde4libs with something hard
[15:04] <apachelogger> homicide?
[15:04] <apachelogger> someone call the police!
[15:04] <Riddell> kde4libs only just compiled
[15:06] <Nightrose> apachelogger: http://lydiapintscher.de/tmp/phonon.txt
[15:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: 8.04 doesn't ask for upgrade to 8.10 by default, does it?
[15:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: nope
[15:10] <Riddell> or even at all
[15:10] <Riddell> unless..
[15:10] <Riddell> you didn't upgrade adept with the hardy-updates version
[15:10] <apachelogger> ok
[15:15] <apachelogger> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=963695
[15:29] <apachelogger> NCommander: there ain't is no patch @ bug 299164
[15:29] <NCommander> apachelogger, I deleted it because my patch introduced a worse bug
[15:29]  * NCommander is very close to a much better solution :-)
[15:30] <apachelogger> I see
[15:30] <NCommander> I'm backporting some of the cmake module code for 4.1.73 that removed KDEDependenciesInternal
[15:31] <apachelogger> sounds like regression testing fun :P
[15:31] <NCommander> regression testing is how I found my patch was bad :-P
[15:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: if I am reading the fridge events page correctly ubuntu-meeting should be available for a very long time
[15:34] <apachelogger> NCommander: you know, of all the stuff we backported only the preview thingies for the taskbar turned out to be of sufficient quality :P
[15:34] <NCommander> apachelogger, I'm ONLY backporting cmake build code
[15:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: quick get nixternal to book it
[15:34] <NCommander> The worse I do is break building stuff, and I'm testing my backported patch to make sure that doesn't happen
[15:34] <nixternal> wasabi
[15:34] <apachelogger> nixternal: go book #ubuntu-meeting for 20 UTC - 3 UTC :P
[15:35] <nixternal> roger that
[15:35] <apachelogger> or maybe make that 0 UTC
[15:35] <apachelogger> otherwise I will be uber tired tomorrow ;-)
[15:36] <JontheEchidna> 7 hours for a meeting is a bit much :P
[15:36] <nixternal> hrmm, someone removed my login stuff w/o even talking to me
[15:36] <apachelogger> did you look at the agenda?
[15:36] <apachelogger> only for the last item I could use 3 hours of discussion :P
[15:37] <apachelogger> nixternal: maybe it's like the launchpad funnies, where your motu membership can actually run out
[15:37] <apachelogger> ah! my boss is going home. I am going home. \o/ home
[15:38] <nixternal> apachelogger: never got any notification of it
[15:38] <apachelogger> nixternal: maybe it got cought as spam?
[15:39] <nixternal> nope, I am still on the team
[15:39] <apachelogger> so you are important on paper, but in fact you are not?
[15:40]  * apachelogger is confused an half way out the office
[15:40] <Riddell> what's kdpkg?
[15:40] <Riddell> to whoever added that to the Jaunty wiki page ^^
[15:41] <rgreening> sounds like an apacheloggerism
[15:42] <jjesse> is that a new word?
[15:43] <nixternal> haha, I am able to edit the fridge, stupid OpenID crap
[15:45] <nixternal> added
[15:54] <Riddell> apachelogger: going to e-mail out a reminder?
[16:01] <seele> argh.. did the time change on the other side of the world?
[16:02] <Riddell> seele: at the end of october it did
[16:02] <Riddell> desktop meeting in #ubuntu-desktop
[16:03] <seele> oooh, the desktop meetings moved back to thursday?
[16:03] <seele> i thought they were tuesday
[16:03] <seele> 13:00 utc?  ick that is early
[16:03] <Riddell> seele: it's tuesday today
[16:04] <seele> Riddell: right, but i thought the desktop meetings were moved to tuesday.. the calendar says thursday at 13:00
[16:05] <Riddell> seele: it's on now
[16:05] <Riddell> which calendar?
[16:06] <seele> Riddell: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
[16:06]  * seele cries.. so confused
[16:06] <Riddell> that's what we're discussing
[16:08] <seele> #ubuntu-meeting?
[16:08] <seele> heh.. nope.  that looks like server team
[16:13] <Riddell> seele: #ubuntu-desktop
[16:14] <seele> Riddell: oh, heh.  thanks
[16:15]  * seele updates her calendar 
[16:15] <litb> hello guys
[16:15] <litb> and gals
[16:15] <litb> my classmate is trying to get going with amarok 2 SVN
[16:15] <litb> and he installed kde devel packages for his ubuntu
[16:15] <litb> but then the cmake file is telling him he needs the mysql-embedded
[16:15] <litb> do you guys know what package he needs?
[16:16] <Nightrose> litb: apt-get build-dep amarok-kde4 after adding the kubuntu-members-kde4 ppa will give him all he needs
[16:18] <litb> thanks guys
[16:18] <Nightrose> <- not a guy ;-)
[16:18] <Nightrose> but you're welcome nontheless
[16:20] <litb> im sorry :/
[16:20] <litb> you've one free slap round
[16:20] <Nightrose> haha
[16:21] <Nightrose> litb: you might need to delet the cmake cache after installing it
[16:21] <Nightrose> it didn't find it for me otherwise
[16:21] <Nightrose> *delete
[16:21] <litb> oh ok. i'll tell him that
[16:21] <litb> thanks gals
[16:21] <Nightrose> ;-)
[16:27] <rgreening> who's a pythonista here? I got a quick question
[16:29] <Riddell> rgreening: what's up?
[16:30] <rgreening> Riddell: writing a app and need to have cmdline args mutually exclusive. If user enters two options which are exclusive, I want it to kick back to the app's help.
[16:30] <Riddell> KCmdLineArgs can probably do that, it can do most things
[16:31] <rgreening> Riddell: So, I can make a call to that and exit gracefully with the help showing
[16:32] <rgreening> Riddell: I'm attempting my first full python app (writing a KDE FE to ufw for a lark... if it's useful for Kubuntu, all the better).
[16:32] <Riddell> rgreening: if it's a KDE app you have no choice but to use KCmdLineArgs, look at the docs on api.kde.org to work out what it can do for you
[16:33] <rgreening> Riddell: ty
[16:34] <Riddell> rgreening: you can see it in use in qt-language-selector for example
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> if you want to code your own command line args you can bypass kcmdlineargs by giving it a fake sys.argv
[16:38] <Riddell> true
[16:38] <Riddell> but there shouldn't be a need  unless the args are being processed elsewhere like in some of our cross-desktop apps, kcmdlineargs is usually the most helpful way
[16:39] <rgreening> Riddell: usage and usageError are what I was looking for. :)
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> yeah, it is sort of a hack ;-)
[16:40] <apachelogger> <3 hacks
[16:41] <apachelogger> I need someone to throw work at me
[16:41] <apachelogger> right now
[16:42]  * JontheEchidna throws malone at apachelogger
[16:42] <apachelogger> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[16:43]  * apachelogger could get his once working, but now again broken kmail running again
[16:43] <Riddell> anyone want to test the new KOffice 2 beta?  deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-experimental/ubuntu intrepid main
[16:44]  * apachelogger updates cache
[16:45] <apachelogger> After this operation, 35.4MB of additional disk space will be used.
[16:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: which operation is that?
[16:45] <apachelogger> install koffice-kde4
[16:45] <Riddell> that's not as bad as I'd expect
[16:45] <apachelogger> if I would do that with openoffice it would look more like 300MB ;-)
[16:46] <Riddell> the source is 86MB
[16:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/krita-data-kde4_1%3a1.9.98.2-0ubuntu3~intrepid2_all.deb (--unpack):
[16:46] <apachelogger>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/kde4/services/kritarulerassistanttool.desktop', which is also in package krita-kde4
[16:46] <Riddell> humph
[16:46] <apachelogger> hmm
[16:46] <apachelogger>   krita-kde4: Depends: krita-data-kde4 (>= 1:1.9.98.2-0ubuntu3~intrepid2) but 1:1.9.98.1-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
[16:47]  * apachelogger uses force ;-)
[16:47] <apachelogger> hm that is weird
[16:47] <Riddell> krita-data-kde4_1.9.98.2-0ubuntu3~intrepid2_all.deb exists
[16:48] <apachelogger> yeah, stupid apt-get just refused to upgrade
[16:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/73904/
[16:48] <Riddell> it's in kword-data-kde4
[16:49] <apachelogger> it's installed
[16:49] <smarter> heya
[16:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: rebuilding sycoca doesn't help either
[16:50] <apachelogger> smarter: salut
[16:50] <smarter> apachelogger: hallo, wie geht's dir?
[16:50] <apachelogger> Oo
[16:50] <apachelogger> that is bloody perfect german
[16:51] <apachelogger> smarter: Riddell broke my koffice ;-)
[16:51] <smarter> oh noes
[16:51]  * smarter always found the UI of kword2 confusing
[16:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: krita works, kspread and kpresenter don't
[16:52] <apachelogger> smarter: word processor UIs are always confusing, actually I don't see why I would need a UI at all
[16:52] <smarter> LaTeX  ftw :p
[16:52] <apachelogger> kate ftw
[16:53] <vvinet> butterflies ftw
[16:53] <apachelogger> ubernice mail on the list \o/
[16:53] <vvinet> ;)
[16:53] <smarter> yup :)
[16:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: maybe it's the findservicebydesktoppath patch in kde4libs
[16:55] <apachelogger> as I understand it the change is incomplete anyway
[16:56] <claydoh> re: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=963695 so I take it noboby working on that ever contacted any devs for hints, tips, advice :(
[16:56]  * claydoh is a little upset by that
[16:57] <smarter> this stuff is just plain crazy
[16:57] <Riddell> kword and kpresenter work fine here
[16:57] <apachelogger> claydoh: if that dood did I would have locked him in a closet
[16:57] <Riddell> claydoh: no, it's pretty impolite
[16:57] <apachelogger> adding a 7 epoch is so uber dumb it still gives me the crepps
[16:57] <apachelogger> -p +e
[16:57] <claydoh> well i wouldn't have sent him to a :) he's mean
[16:57] <claydoh> :)
[16:58] <claydoh> well they forget that its a community
[16:59] <claydoh> except when they need to gripe
[16:59] <smarter> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6153716&postcount=88 << that's scary
[16:59] <smarter> "I've had to do so much fiddling with the build environment that I doubt this will work. I want a place to upload the binaries (and source) that I have already built, tested, in some cases modified, and verified."
[16:59] <NCommander> apachelogger, I'm getting close to having the libsolid patch done I hope, I need to do some more tests however :-/
[16:59] <smarter> he modified binary packages? Oo
[16:59] <apachelogger> Oo
[16:59]  * Riddell hugs NCommander 
[17:00] <NCommander> \o/
[17:00] <smarter> NCommander: what are you patching? :)
[17:00] <apachelogger> ~order cookie for NCommander
[17:00]  * kubotu slides one of world's finest cookies down the bar to NCommander.
[17:00] <NCommander> Riddell, I did do a fairly large lobotomy of the cmake rules to fix it however
[17:00] <NCommander> (the patch itself is fairly small)
[17:00] <NCommander> smarter, the reason why we can't link against against libsolid
[17:00] <NCommander> such as adept
[17:01]  * smarter had no idea we had that issue
[17:01] <NCommander> smarter, are you running intrepid?
[17:01] <smarter> yus
[17:01] <NCommander> check out /usr/share/kde4/apps/cmake/modules/KDELibsDependenciesInternal.cmake
[17:01] <NCommander> And its lovely hardcoded paths
[17:01] <NCommander> (search for /build/buildd)
[17:02] <smarter> hmm, nothing like that here
[17:02] <NCommander> O_o;
[17:02] <NCommander> Oh
[17:02] <NCommander> you ned to have the package installed from intrepid-updates
[17:03] <NCommander> (its not in jaunty)
[17:03]  * smarter has backports/updates/updates-testing/experimental/... :P
[17:03] <smarter> NCommander: what's exactly the package?
[17:03] <NCommander> smarter, kdelibs-dev
[17:03] <NCommander> smarter, oh, you don't have the file?
[17:03] <smarter> I have the file
[17:04] <NCommander> Look in the libsolid line
[17:04] <smarter> SET("solid_LIB_DEPENDS" "general;/usr/lib/libQtCore.so;general;/usr/lib/libQtDBus.so;general;/usr/lib/libQtXml.so;general;/usr/lib/libQtGui.so;general;/usr/lib/libQtCore.so;general;kdecore;") ?
[17:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: oh, I ran the wrong kbuildsycoca4 ;-) still I think kword should invoke a rescan if it can't find the part
[17:04] <smarter> ii  kdelibs5-dev                               4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid5~ppa1             development files for the KDE 4 core librari
[17:04] <NCommander> There's your reason
[17:04] <NCommander> It was fixed pass 4.1.2
[17:05] <NCommander> *passed
[17:05] <smarter> oh, okay
[17:05] <smarter> so you backported the fix?
[17:05] <NCommander> I backported the fix from jaunty
[17:05]  * NCommander wonders if the 4.1.3 fix would be cleaner
[17:05]  * apachelogger is getting confused
[17:05] <apachelogger> NCommander: most likely
[17:05] <NCommander> Where's that PPA?
[17:05] <apachelogger> backports
[17:05] <NCommander> I'll redo my magic
[17:06] <apachelogger> plus 4.1.3 is still targetting -updates, so ultimately the issue would be fixed by then
[17:07] <Riddell> I'm about to file the bugs needed to get 4.1.3 into -updates
[17:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you have a script for that?
[17:08] <Riddell> nope
[17:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: I'll try to get one for 4.1.4
[17:08]  * apachelogger doubts he can do anymore magic today
[17:09] <NCommander> If we're going to put 4.1.3 into updates
[17:09] <NCommander> Then maybe its just worth waiting for that to go through
[17:09] <NCommander> since it already has the necessary bugfix
[17:09] <apachelogger> that is what I was trying to indicate when I mentioned that .3 is has -updates as target ;-)
[17:09] <Riddell> NCommander: so 4.1.3 should magically fix this?
[17:09] <NCommander> Once 4.1.3 hits proposed, we can test adept to see if the issue is corrected
[17:10] <NCommander> or is it already in proposed?
[17:10] <Riddell> not yet
[17:10] <NCommander> WOrks for me
[17:10] <NCommander> The same code I backported from 4.1.73 is in 4.1.3
[17:10] <Riddell> ok, I'll file bugs, see if pitti's happy with a move to -proposed then we'll check adept again
[17:11] <apachelogger> smarter: that bespin thingy is almost an accessibility theme ;-)
[17:11] <NCommander> Well, bug resolved
[17:11] <NCommander> Even if it took a weird way to fix it
[17:11] <NCommander> :-)
[17:11] <smarter> apachelogger: hmm, it's not supposed to :P warum sagst du das?
[17:12] <apachelogger> smarter: black'n'white and that is all I see
[17:12] <apachelogger> goes very well with mono ;-)
[17:12] <smarter> supposed to be the überglossy stuff
[17:12] <apachelogger> the überglossy stuff is disturbing the accessibility
[17:12] <apachelogger> actually, IMHO the überglossy stuff disturbs the usibility as well
[17:13] <smarter> yes, but bespin is überglossy, screenshot of what you get?
[17:13] <apachelogger> oh dear, never start krita-kde4 with full debug output
[17:13] <apachelogger> openGL will eat your prompt
[17:15] <Riddell> gtl
[17:15] <Riddell> ?
[17:15] <apachelogger> something g and l
[17:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: kdebugdialog - turn everything on - start krita
[17:16] <apachelogger> smarter: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot186.png
[17:16] <apachelogger> smarter: if the scrollbar was black...
[17:18] <smarter> yes, that's not really glossy but most of the screenshot is the white dolphin background, dialog windows zum Beispiel are a lot glossier iirc, buttons too
[17:18] <smarter> there's a bespin kwin dec too that you might want to check out
[17:18] <apachelogger> smarter: dialog windows are black, so if it wasn't for the glossy they would be super destincted from normal windows
[17:18] <apachelogger> which is an accessibility advantage IMO
[17:19] <apachelogger> smarter: I am running neon right now, my 4.1 is using bespin for kwin
[17:19] <smarter> oh :)
[17:20] <smarter> one of the cool thing of Bespin is that it's superconfigurable
[17:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: koffice working well
[17:20] <apachelogger> smarter: lipstik was superconfigurable
[17:20] <Riddell> yay
[17:21] <apachelogger> smarter: and didn't look half bad :P so it was better than bespin is
[17:21]  * smarter thinks that polyester > lipstik :]
[17:21] <apachelogger> true
[17:21] <apachelogger> polyester looked like crap though :P
[17:21] <smarter> no :o
[17:22] <NCommander> Riddell, I need your archive administration powers!
[17:22] <smarter> the kubuntu 7.10 theme rocked
[17:22]  * apachelogger really thinks oxygen is the first style that got decent defaults
[17:24] <Riddell> NCommander: what's up?
[17:24] <NCommander> Riddell, can you accept svk into updates? It has an SRU ack, and two verifications.
[17:25] <Riddell> NCommander: bug no?
[17:25] <NCommander> Riddell, 282793
[17:25] <NCommander> bug #282793
[17:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: thoughts about bug 289592 ?
[17:33]  * apachelogger would rather not read yet another spec ;-)
[17:38] <Riddell> uri/ doesn't sound like a mimetype
[17:38] <Riddell> I doubt it's actually a problem though
[17:39] <apachelogger> ~wp uri mimetype
[17:39] <kubotu> no results found for mimetype
[17:40] <apachelogger> ~wp mimetype
[17:40] <kubotu> Results for mimetype: 1. MIME: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME | 2. Internet media type: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_media_type | 3. MediaWici:Mimetype - Wicipedia: http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWici:Mimetype
[17:40] <kubotu> [1] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[17:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: it appears to be a KDE specific fake mimetype
[17:43] <apachelogger> just like all and fonts
[17:44] <claydoh> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=963695&goto=newpost
[17:44] <claydoh> "
[17:44] <claydoh> I supposed that, in some way, Kubuntu Team should contact Madscientist to organize the fusion of KDE3 in Kubuntu Intrepid, maybe in backports mode or in ppa.
[17:44] <claydoh> I've read around that many Kubuntu users will appreciate the possibility to have both KDE at the moment.
[17:44] <claydoh> oops sorry for the big paste
[17:44] <apachelogger> ...
[17:44] <apachelogger> why
[17:44] <apachelogger> should
[17:44] <apachelogger> _WE_
[17:44] <apachelogger> contact
[17:44] <apachelogger> him
[17:45] <apachelogger> ?
[17:45] <claydoh> _I_ suggested this loong ago
[17:45] <apachelogger> aye
[17:46]  * claydoh 's blood pressure is way to high today to get all worked up :(
[17:46] <claydoh> too late though
[17:47] <apachelogger> ~order tranquilizer
[17:47]  * kubotu slides tranquilizer down the bar to apachelogger
[17:47] <apachelogger> hm
[17:47] <apachelogger> ~order tranquillizer
[17:47]  * kubotu slides tranquillizer down the bar to apachelogger
[17:48] <apachelogger> kubotu: screw you!
[17:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: I don't understand why update-mime-database outputs a warning about the uri mimetypes but not about the other fakes
[17:54] <apachelogger> echidnaman: bug 289822 needs forwarding I gues
[18:02] <Riddell> NCommander: done
[18:02] <NCommander> w00t
[18:50] <^seelenn^> ryanakca: Pinnnnn
[18:51] <^seelenn^> Did you take a look at the branch I put up last night?
[19:00]  * seele waves to Artemis_Fowl 
[19:00] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: ping
[19:00]  * Artemis_Fowl waves back to seele
[19:00] <Artemis_Fowl> :-)
[19:07] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: how's it going?
[19:14] <nixternal> so we have a meeting in like 45 minutes right?
[19:14] <Riddell> yes
[19:17] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: very good, except work is a bit busy so i havent had much time for fun stuff
[19:17] <seele> although my 14:00 meeting ended up being shorter than expected
[19:19] <Riddell> that's to make up for the kubuntu meeting :)
[19:20] <seele> yeah, but now i feel bad.  i asked for it to get moved back an hour, and here i am waiting for the meeting to happen in 40 minutes
[19:24] <Artemis_Fowl> damn. apachelogger doesn't seem to be around and I have to go in a while
[19:24] <Artemis_Fowl> could I ask someone else for LP stuff?
[19:24] <apachelogger> Arby: yo
[19:24] <apachelogger> sup?
[19:25] <Artemis_Fowl> oh
[19:25] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: hey
[19:25] <apachelogger> watching tv right now
[19:25] <Arby> apachelogger: hi, just re-reading my wiki page to see what I wrote
[19:25] <Arby> :)
[19:26] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: ah ok
[19:26] <Arby> did you mean me, or did you mean Artemis_Fowl?
[19:26] <apachelogger> Arby: claim you are the special-kind-of-entertainment-movie star that usually helps with getting +1s :P
[19:26] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: well, what's up
[19:26] <Arby> :)
[19:26] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: got a small question
[19:27] <Arby> in between getting lost in printer config
[19:27] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: Kgrubeditor will be moved into kdeadmin after KDE 4.2
[19:27] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: and its SourceForge SVN repo will be abandoned
[19:28] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: should I remove the LP copy?
[19:28] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: you can, it doesn't really matter though
[19:29] <apachelogger> you probably should get rid of the bzr import if you created one
[19:29] <Artemis_Fowl> y that was what I meant
[19:29] <Artemis_Fowl> thanks
[19:47] <JontheEchidna> ha, the meeting is going to be an hour earlier than I thought
[19:47] <JontheEchidna> stoopid daylight savings...
[19:51] <seele> JontheEchidna: hmm?
[19:51] <seele> JontheEchidna: we're -5 now :)
[19:51] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I thought we were stil -6 now :P
[19:54] <Riddell> ** Kubuntu Meeting in 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[19:54] <NCommander> Riddell, can I get a backport from you?
[19:55] <NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/intrepid-backports/+bug/298785
[19:55] <seele> JontheEchidna: what time zone are you in?
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> Eastern
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> ~time
[19:55] <kubotu> JontheEchidna: America - New York - Tue Nov 18 14:55 EST
[19:55] <seele> where do you get -6? it is usually -5 or -4?
[19:56] <jjesse> est is -5 or -4 i thought
[19:56] <NCommander> JontheEchidna, where in Eastern are you?
[19:56] <JontheEchidna> New Hampshire
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> seele: -6 during daylight savings, since the rest of the world doesn't observe it
[19:57] <NCommander> JontheEchidna, your not that far from me (relative to other Ubuntu developers)
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> heh
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> hmm, I thought it was 5 and 6 but I guess it's 4 and 6
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> *4 and 5
[19:58] <Riddell> NCommander: poke me after the meeting?
[19:58] <NCommander> k
[19:59] <jjesse> NCommander: where are you located at?
[19:59]  * jjesse is in michigan
[19:59] <NCommander> Rochester, NY
[20:01] <Riddell> seele: poke into #ubuntu-meeting
[20:01] <Riddell> meeting time!
[20:09] <Riddell> yuriy about?
[20:10] <Riddell> nixternal?
[20:18] <ryanakca> ^seelenn^: yes, I merged it in
[20:18] <^seelenn^> thank you, glad you got it
[20:19] <^seelenn^> I was wondering when you'd show up :)
[20:19] <ryanakca> ^seelenn^: thank you :)
[20:19] <^seelenn^> you all ready to unleash? )
[20:20] <yuriy> meeting here?
[20:20] <^seelenn^> nope, #ubuntu-meeting
[20:21] <ryanakca> Sorry, missed the beginning, what's the current topic? bzr for packages?
[20:21] <^seelenn^> Yeah
[20:21] <^seelenn^> that's what i think it is anyways, I'm lost to be honest
[20:22] <^seelenn^> membership was given to Arby firstly, the other guy isn't there yet, now they are on bzr
[20:29] <ryanakca> If you want to skip to the next point first, feel free, please :)
[20:30] <ryanakca> (before going to the wiki one)
[20:46]  * vorian very late
[21:04] <doc__> hi there
[21:05] <Riddell> hi doc__, we're all in a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[21:23] <ryanakca> apachelogger: whenever you're ready... it isn't perfect... but it's better than zilch :)
[21:38] <ryanakca> Hmmm... To get your membership renewed... d'you have to go through the whole application process ?
[21:42] <Riddell> no
[21:44] <claydoh> Nightrose: i will email you later
[21:45] <Nightrose> ok
[22:04] <Riddell> smarter: which part of France are you in?
[22:04] <smarter> east, just at the border with switzerland, geneva
[22:04] <Riddell> Nightrose: hmm, not sure if you're on the way from France to Bad Pyrmont
[22:04] <smarter> https://edge.launchpad.net/~smarter/+editlocation ;)
[22:05] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/2008-11-18.log
[22:05] <apachelogger> rawlog
[22:05] <Nightrose> Riddell: depends on which part of france ;-)
[22:05] <Nightrose> but yea
[22:06] <Nightrose> if you are around let me know - if not i will have to cope with it *sob*
[22:06] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:06] <apachelogger> hm
[22:06] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I could come visit you
[22:07] <Nightrose> \o/
[22:07]  * apachelogger calculates his next vacation
[22:07] <apachelogger> Nightrose: in only 15.48 years
[22:07] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[22:07] <Nightrose> *sob*
[22:07] <apachelogger> I am a busy man...
[22:11] <Arby> apachelogger: I'm just composing an answer to that forum thread. could you give me a short list of the issues so I can give a proper explanation
[22:11] <Arby> I understand that using a 7 epoch is bad
[22:11] <Arby> but what are the consequences for joe user
[22:11] <apachelogger> he won't be able to upgrade to _anything_
[22:12] <apachelogger> not yet, not ever, unless we end up with epoch 7, which is very unlikely to happen within the next 50 years or so
[22:12] <Arby> so not even the underlying os would upgrade, because the dependency calculation would fail?
[22:12] <Riddell> (unless coolo starts packaging again:)
[22:12] <ryanakca> seele: was this the article / research you were refering to earlier? http://hid.fidelity.com/q31998/column.htm
[22:12] <Tm_T> Riddell: xD
[22:13] <JontheEchidna> so how did we get epoch up to 4?
[22:13] <Arby> Riddell: I'm thinking about below desktop and whether they'd end up with a 9.04 os and a kde3 desktop
[22:13] <smarter> first packagers screwed up :p
[22:13] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: see comment above :)
[22:13] <JontheEchidna> ha
[22:13] <Riddell> Arby: upgrading to 9.04 will likely not work at all
[22:14] <smarter> Arby: the stuff he said about modifying binary packages(looks in the meeting archives, I mentioned it) probably means he's not that good at packaging
[22:14] <JontheEchidna> how do you screw up so that you must add an epoch?
[22:14] <Tm_T> smarter: not only that, I afraid
[22:14] <Riddell> by changing version number scheme
[22:14] <smarter> JontheEchidna: use svn rev as package number :p
[22:14] <JontheEchidna> o.O
[22:14] <apachelogger> Riddell: :P
[22:14] <apachelogger> poor coolo
[22:14] <Arby> smarter: I'm not even sure what he's talking about there
[22:14] <smarter> JontheEchidna: see the changelog on packages.debian.org, it's quiet fun :P
[22:14] <Tm_T> Arby: prolly himself either
[22:14] <smarter> Arby: what is sure is that he doesn't handle something right
[22:15] <apachelogger> Arby: upgrade probably won't work at all
[22:15] <apachelogger> Arby: if it does they will end up with a broken desktop
[22:15] <Riddell> fabo: you applied for membership?
[22:15] <Arby> ok, let me read the rest of the thread and try to compose something
[22:15] <apachelogger> and manually downgrading KDE core is no fun at all... I was a suse user, I've been there
[22:16] <Tm_T> apachelogger: until you saw the light, son
[22:16] <apachelogger> literally light, I had to do that on a TTY :P
[22:16] <Tm_T> haha
[22:17] <Riddell> Arby, txwikinger: membership approved, <lp-user>@kubuntu.org e-mail forwarding should be added in the next few days, you can add your blogs to planet any time
[22:17] <apachelogger> good ol' yast at least had a CLI, with our fancy kubuntu gui stuffs you can't even repair your system :P
[22:17] <JontheEchidna>  kdebase  (2:980710-1.0-1) unstable; urgency=low
[22:17] <JontheEchidna> dang
[22:17] <Arby> Riddell: thanks
[22:17] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: =)
[22:18] <Arby> of course that would mean I have to start writing a blog
[22:18] <Tm_T> Arby: you have to
[22:18] <Riddell> what an excellent idea
[22:18] <apachelogger> aye
[22:18] <apachelogger> we need more blue stuff on the ubuntu planet
[22:19] <smarter> 'night people
[22:19] <Tm_T> apachelogger: does that count me too?
[22:19] <Tm_T> smarter: good night, have hugs
[22:20]  * smarter plans to start blogging a bit too
[22:20] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I don't have the knows
[22:20] <Tm_T> so why Jono Bacon hasn't done our theme song yet?
[22:20] <seele> ryanakca: no, the research i was referring to came out of WSU's psych lab
[22:20] <Tm_T> apachelogger: what knows?
[22:21] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I don't have the knows
[22:21] <Tm_T> sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say
[22:21] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I don't have the knows
[22:21] <Tm_T> ok
[22:21] <apachelogger> phew
[22:21] <apachelogger> that was one loop
[22:21] <Tm_T> apachelogger: your mind is more than one loop but ok
[22:21] <Tm_T> (;)
[22:23] <apachelogger> loops are the fun
[22:31] <^seelenn^> ryanakca: Not sure if it's you I should mention this to but...
[22:32] <Arby> a further thought on the kde3 crack repository.
[22:32] <^seelenn^> bugs 297354 & 291495 are the same
[22:32] <Arby> At what point is it no longer kubuntu?
[22:32] <Tm_T> Arby: what you mean?
[22:33] <Arby> well if they persist with this effort they are deviating further from what we officially support as being identified as kubuntu
[22:33] <Arby> at what stage does a system diverge so much it becomes a derivative
[22:34] <Tm_T> Arby: we cannot support something which isn't our doings
[22:34] <ryanakca> Arby: imho, Kubuntu stops being Kubuntu when you replace the Kubuntu KDE packages with another WM... then it becomes Ubuntu base + whatever WM you install
[22:34] <Arby> that's exactly my point
[22:34] <Tm_T> Arby: so, when any core part, in this case, even kdebase package alone is enough
[22:35] <Arby> hmm, just musing is all
[22:49] <Riddell> how's this? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings/Minutes/2008-11-18
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: love the ending :P
[22:50]  * ryanakca grins
[22:50] <Tm_T> (:)
[22:53]  * ^seelenn^ boots VM
[22:53] <^seelenn^> icky Windows XP
[22:57] <Arby> ok folks, how about this as a response to the forum thread?
[22:57] <Arby> http://paste.ubuntu.com/74051/
[22:58] <Arby> if anybody wants to give any more technical insight into why things will break feel free
[22:59] <Arby> Riddell: apachelogger anybody else ^^
[22:59] <Riddell> "We know there are people who still want KDE3." -> "We know there are people who still want KDE 3, but recemment they stick with 8.04 (Hardy) rather than use an untested and unsupported third party archive."
[23:01] <Arby> 'untested and unsupported' is likely to bring on flames but I think that'll happen anyway
[23:01] <Tm_T> Arby: but that's true
[23:01] <Arby> I bet they'll claim it's supported
[23:01] <Arby> Tm_T: I agree
[23:01] <Arby> I can just see what the response will be
[23:02] <Tm_T> Arby: then all issues are supported by the claimers, I though wouldn't like to see that
[23:02] <a|wen> Arby: link to forum post?
[23:02] <Tm_T> too ugly to my eyes
[23:02] <Arby> a|wen: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=963695
[23:02] <a|wen> thx
[23:03] <Nightrose> Arby: "of work required to maintain a usable KDE3 desktop is will increase" <- one "is" too much
[23:03] <Arby> oops
[23:04] <Nightrose> sounds good to me otherwise
[23:05] <a|wen> that's a long post
[23:05] <Arby> a|wen: the thread is 11 pages of crack
[23:06] <Arby> and use of that repo stands a reasonable chance of causing the end of the world
[23:06] <a|wen> Arby: yeah, just realized :/
[23:07]  * Arby prepares the flameproof suit and goes to post
[23:08] <rgreening> gj Arby
[23:08] <a|wen> go for it Arby ... and good luck might be the right words :)
[23:09] <Arby> and it's done
[23:09] <Arby> anbody got any marshmallows?
[23:10]  * ^seelenn^ now wants some marshmallows
[23:11] <Arby> while I remember.
[23:11] <Arby> JontheEchidna: is it worth trying to have a bugday on kdepim sometime soon?
[23:11] <JontheEchidna> Arby, ^seelenn^: http://www.homestarrunner.com/marshie.html
[23:11] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[23:11] <JontheEchidna> I guess when we roll 4.2 out we'll be mass-closing kdepim bugs anway
[23:12] <Arby> fair enough
[23:12] <Arby> we can survey the damage after that
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[23:12] <jussi01_> Morning all
[23:13] <^seelenn^> evening
[23:13] <^seelenn^> :)
[23:13] <Arby> although strictly speaking that won't be til January will it
[23:14] <jussi01_> Is anyone having issues with the new fglrx driver that hit the repos a few days back? (I think its in proposed...)
[23:14] <a|wen> Arby: isn't there a lot of 3.5.x bugs anyway, so a cleanup could be a good idea?
[23:15] <Arby> a|wen: yes there probably is
[23:15] <jussi01_> I have that it boots to 640x480 and then when I log in and go to system settings - display it goes to the correct resolution
[23:16]  * ^seelenn^ goes to sleep
[23:16] <Riddell> night ^seelenn^
[23:16]  * jussi01_ waves to Riddell
[23:16]  * a|wen lives happily without fglrx for his ati graphics card
[23:16] <^seelenn^> Riddell: Night night
[23:16] <jussi01_> a|wen: shush you ;P
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> jussi01_: known issue with the systemsettings module
[23:17] <jussi01_> JontheEchidna: workaround/fix?
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> workaround is... to open systemsettings...
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> lol
[23:18] <jussi01_> hehe
[23:18] <jussi01_> ok
[23:20] <jussi01_> there is also a problem with it doing weird stuff with focus - I run networkmanager gnome, and after Ive got the resolution back I click on it and the pop up box doesnt come up. (works fine with the bad res)
[23:20] <seele> hum.. work on system settings or presentation for tomorrow's lug meeting
[23:20] <jussi01_> seele: ad lib the presentation, work on system settings :D
[23:21] <seele> jussi01_: i promised them slides, but there probably wont be many of them anyway
[23:21] <jussi01_> oh
[23:36] <a|wen> regarding kde 3.5 ... if anybody with SRU powers has time to have a look at bug 286905 it would be greatly appreciated