| barry | #startmeeting | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| MootBot | Meeting started at 21:00. The chair is barry. | 03:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 03:00 |
| barry | hello everyone and welcome to this week's asiapac reviewer's meeting. who's here today? | 03:00 |
| thumper | here | 03:00 |
| jml | hi | 03:00 |
| jml | I am here. | 03:00 |
| jml | and I bet mwhudson is too | 03:00 |
| mwhudson | hello | 03:01 |
| barry | hi guys | 03:01 |
| barry | apologies for being a little disorganized today. i moved and my isp screwed me over ;) | 03:02 |
| barry | [TOPIC] agenda | 03:02 |
| MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 03:02 |
| barry | * Roll call | 03:02 |
| barry | * What support can beuno and mrevell offer during the review process? (mrevell) | 03:02 |
| barry | * Email cover letter to ml after pre-imp call? - barry | 03:02 |
| barry | * If there's time, the old boring script | 03:02 |
| barry | * Next meeting | 03:02 |
| barry | * Action items | 03:02 |
| barry | * Queue status | 03:02 |
| barry | * Mentoring update | 03:02 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * What support can beuno and mrevell offer during the review process? (mrevell) | 03:02 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * What support can beuno and mrevell offer during the review process? (mrevell) | 03:02 |
| barry | so, at the ameu meeting we talked about beuno and mrevell helping w/preimps and reviews | 03:03 |
| barry | beuno mostly about ui stuff and mrevell about help, etc | 03:03 |
| barry | they're also invited to the reviewer meetings and we can use them in m-p's | 03:03 |
| mwhudson | i would say, particularly for beuno that review is too late | 03:04 |
| jml | right. | 03:04 |
| thumper | agreed | 03:04 |
| jml | whereas, I think that for doc changes, reviews are at about the right time | 03:04 |
| barry | mwhudson: yes, agreed, though i wonder if he should be a reviewer for all ui changes | 03:04 |
| jml | that would be interesting | 03:05 |
| barry | though he /should/ be involved earlier, maybe he /must/ be involved at review time? | 03:05 |
| mwhudson | jml: indeed | 03:05 |
| jml | if he can keep up with the load, I think that would be a good idea | 03:05 |
| mwhudson | barry: i'd worry that he'd become a bottleneck | 03:05 |
| mwhudson | but maybe it's worth a try | 03:05 |
| jml | it'll still add review latency problems | 03:05 |
| jml | which will discourage trivial UI patches. | 03:05 |
| jml | although, even if it's a post-merge review it'll probably help | 03:06 |
| barry | right. i just think with all the redesign going on, we need someone to make sure things are consistent | 03:06 |
| jml | the big danger to watch out for is ending up with another situation like db patches. | 03:07 |
| barry | i know review latency is a big problem for you guys | 03:07 |
| barry | jml: yes, great point | 03:07 |
| barry | jml: though it'll be different because it wouldn't be on such a limited clock tick | 03:08 |
| jml | this is why I think post-merge UI reviews are worth considering | 03:08 |
| mwhudson | yes, that's perhaps a good idea | 03:08 |
| barry | jml: ui pre-imps & post-merge reviews? | 03:08 |
| jml | yes, although that brings me to my next thought :) | 03:09 |
| jml | which is that nominally, we share few core hours with Martin. | 03:09 |
| jml | that said, 2/3 of us rarely do UI work anyway. | 03:09 |
| barry | yeah, that does suck | 03:09 |
| mwhudson | and martin is an insane insomniac | 03:10 |
| * barry had him and sinzui at his house all last week :) | 03:10 | |
| barry | ok. i'll powwow with martin and see if he has some ideas, suggestions, preferences | 03:11 |
| mwhudson | sounds sane | 03:11 |
| barry | cool | 03:11 |
| barry | please do let me know if you have more ideas here. i don't want to impose any more bottlenecks, just looking forward a bit to handling big ui changes | 03:12 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Email cover letter to ml after pre-imp call? - barry | 03:12 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Email cover letter to ml after pre-imp call? - barry | 03:12 |
| mwhudson | does anyone actually read the review list any more? | 03:13 |
| mwhudson | i haven't been able to keep up for months | 03:13 |
| thumper | I don't | 03:13 |
| thumper | too busy | 03:13 |
| barry | mwhudson: i'm thinking of sending it to the launchpad list. bad idea? | 03:13 |
| thumper | I think that'll make the launchpad list even more unfollowable | 03:13 |
| mwhudson | anyway | 03:14 |
| jml | barry: what's the thinking behind the idea? | 03:14 |
| mwhudson | barry: what | 03:14 |
| mwhudson | right, what jml said | 03:14 |
| thumper | is the intent to make people do more pre-impls? | 03:14 |
| barry | thumper: partly that yes. also so people have a better idea about what is going on and to spur wider discussion -- when people care | 03:15 |
| barry | you'd probably ignore most of it, but something might catch your eye | 03:15 |
| barry | better to do so early on than in the review process | 03:16 |
| barry | i'm trying to write my covers right up front | 03:16 |
| thumper | if people could give useful subject lines it might help more | 03:16 |
| jml | hmm. | 03:16 |
| thumper | so I don't have to read the messages | 03:16 |
| jml | barry: I wonder if this is the right tool to solve the problem. | 03:16 |
| barry | jml: maybe not | 03:17 |
| jml | barry: my cover letters often say what I'm solving, what approach I'm taking and why. But they also discuss details of the implementation that simply aren't there pre-impl | 03:17 |
| jml | barry: my guess is that if I did cover letters up front, I'd still need something like a cover letter sent on review. | 03:17 |
| barry | jml: yes. i start the cover when i start the branch. it helps crystallize my thinking. i add pre-imp call notes, then implementation details as i'm working on it, so by the time i'm done, it's an accurate (hopefully helpful) detailed explanation of what i've done | 03:18 |
| jml | barry: so, another thing we could try is this: | 03:19 |
| jml | when you start working on something, set the bug to "in progress", and put an interesting comment in. | 03:19 |
| thumper | or, dare I say it, a work in progress merge proposal | 03:20 |
| barry | thumper: ? | 03:20 |
| jml | thumper: I've got a bug filed saying that there should be a stronger association between the two :P | 03:20 |
| barry | jml: between bugs and m-ps? | 03:21 |
| jml | barry: specifically between bug/branch links and m-ps | 03:21 |
| jml | barry: but bugs and m-ps would follow, I hope. | 03:21 |
| barry | jml: that will be awesome | 03:21 |
| jml | barry: the bug is pretty vague :) | 03:21 |
| barry | :) | 03:22 |
| jml | barry: that said, I do think that using the bug / blueprint tracker for this is the right way to go. | 03:22 |
| jml | barry: as individuals, we have a finer level of control over what bugs we find interesting. | 03:22 |
| barry | jml: yes. for me, it all starts at the bug/blueprint | 03:23 |
| jml | plus we have the advantage of making that decision whenever we wish, rather than when an email appears in our inbox. | 03:23 |
| barry | right | 03:23 |
| jml | cool. | 03:24 |
| barry | that's all i have on this topic. obviously my thoughts aren't fully baked | 03:24 |
| barry | one more topic not on the agenda | 03:25 |
| * jml needs to configure flashing red lights to go off when bug 173633 gets started. | 03:25 | |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 173633 in launchpad-bazaar "Listing of branches per-user per-project" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173633 | 03:25 |
| barry | [TOPIC] mapping m-p states with lp review process | 03:25 |
| MootBot | New Topic: mapping m-p states with lp review process | 03:25 |
| barry | or something like that | 03:25 |
| barry | we had a discussion at ameu about how to map our current lp review states onto m-p states | 03:25 |
| thumper | which I didn't fully agree with | 03:26 |
| barry | there was a vigorous discussion about it! | 03:26 |
| jml | I didn't follow that discussion. | 03:26 |
| barry | so just to summarize... | 03:26 |
| barry | we had strong but not unanimous agreement that... | 03:26 |
| barry | needs-reply == needs-fixing | 03:26 |
| thumper | +1 | 03:26 |
| barry | merge-approved == approve | 03:27 |
| thumper | +1 | 03:27 |
| barry | merge-conditional == approve + comment | 03:27 |
| thumper | +1 | 03:27 |
| barry | and most people don't like resubmit :) | 03:27 |
| * thumper maybe does agree | 03:27 | |
| thumper | we shouldn't have resubmit | 03:27 |
| thumper | because we talk to each other | 03:27 |
| barry | or at least, we as lp developers should never get a resubmit | 03:27 |
| jml | right. pre-impl calls basically make it unnecessary. | 03:27 |
| thumper | right | 03:27 |
| barry | though we might when/if we start taking floss contributions | 03:27 |
| thumper | we don't develop in a vacuum | 03:28 |
| thumper | barry: agreed | 03:28 |
| jml | thumper: speak for yourself! | 03:28 |
| barry | jml: there's no air in oz? | 03:28 |
| jml | thumper: I find hacking in a vacuum reduces the pressure. | 03:28 |
| thumper | jml: well, that is certainly true | 03:28 |
| thumper | jml: and you often get shit done | 03:28 |
| jml | barry: only the best air on earth! | 03:28 |
| * jml was making a terrible pun, actually | 03:29 | |
| barry | :-D | 03:29 |
| barry | so, sounds like you guys like the ameu decision? | 03:29 |
| jml | yeah. | 03:29 |
| thumper | yep | 03:29 |
| mwhudson | yes | 03:29 |
| barry | cool | 03:30 |
| barry | well, that's it for me. anything on your minds? | 03:30 |
| thumper | just vegie curry | 03:30 |
| jml | the absence of lunch :) | 03:30 |
| barry | you eat, i'll sleep | 03:31 |
| barry | see you next week! | 03:31 |
| barry | #endmeeting | 03:31 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 21:31. | 03:31 |
| jml | see ya :) | 03:31 |
| barry | thanks guys | 03:31 |
| jml | barry: thanks | 03:31 |
| === danilo-afk is now known as danilos | ||
| === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch | ||
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | ||
| === bac` is now known as bac | ||
| === thumper_laptop is now known as thumper | ||
| === bac is now known as bac_afk | ||
| === bac_afk is now known as bac | ||
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