[03:20] <calc> er i'm confused did the desktop team meeting not get changed?
[03:21] <calc> its still showing up on the fridge as thursday
[03:21] <beuno> calc, let me know if you need it changed
[03:21] <calc> beuno: not sure Keybuk_ would know but he is asleep atm
[03:22] <beuno> calc, ok, poke me and I'll change it or give one of you guys superpowers to do so  :)
[03:22] <calc> beuno: yea it looks like the meeting should be tuesdays at 16:00 UTC
[03:22] <calc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-11-11
[03:25] <beuno> calc, so this is the event that needs changing?  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1717
[03:26] <calc> yes i believe so
[03:26] <calc> yea the url is it
[03:26] <calc> though on the wiki it claims the meeting is in #ubuntu-desktopp (?)
[03:26] <calc> i haven't been at a meeting in 2 weeks so i am not sure if that part is accurate
[03:27] <calc> i know the day/time is though since i have seen mailing list updates reflecting that part
[03:28] <beuno> calc, you tell me, I'm just following orders
[03:28] <beuno> we can change this tomorrow with Keybuk around
[03:33] <calc> beuno: actually from the looks of it he is on vacation so pitti would be the person to ask i guess
[03:33] <calc> beuno: i'll find out when i try to go to the meeting where it is for certain :)
[03:34] <beuno> calc, heh, good luck with that!
[03:35] <calc> yea :)
[03:45]  * Hobbsee notes ubuntu doesn't seem to have a 'legal' address.
[03:45] <Hobbsee> They have a trademarks address, and a PR address...
[04:12] <mneptok> Hobbsee: whatchya need?
[04:12] <Hobbsee> mneptok: some waffle words.
[04:12] <mneptok> Hobbsee: want me to ask the counsel to e-mail you?
[04:13] <mneptok> Hobbsee: or can you fire something at me that i can then forward?
[04:14] <Hobbsee> mneptok: fired.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> mneptok: (thanks
[04:14] <Hobbsee> )
[04:15] <mneptok> np np
[04:19] <mneptok> Hobbsee: sent to our counsel and m.d.z
[04:19] <Hobbsee> mneptok: cool, thanks :)
[04:19] <mneptok> for you? da moon, baby.
[04:19] <mneptok> or ... something.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:21] <Hobbsee> can i have a billion dollars instead please?
[04:21]  * ajmitch hands Hobbsee 1 billion NZD
[04:21] <ajmitch> or about 10c australian
[04:21] <Hobbsee> australian dollars?  Or even euro, or brittish pounds?
[04:22] <ajmitch> no
[06:22] <dholbach> good morning
[06:31] <dholbach> ArneGoetje: I'm just looking at bug 299296 - I'm happy to get it synced, will you take care of getting ttf-sazanami into main and get it seeded?
[06:40] <didrocks> morning
[07:53] <pitti> Good morning
[07:54] <pitti> calc, beuno: yes, the meeting is in #ubuntu-desktop, since it clashes with another one in #u-meeting
[07:56] <amitk_> pitti: how do you feel like uploading a kernel to jaunty to start the day?
[07:56] <amitk_> :)
[07:57] <pitti> amitk_: in general I'm fine with that, but ATM we are in alpha-1 soft freeze today, so it's not a particularly good timing
[07:58] <persia> pitti, With which meeting does it clash?
[07:58] <pitti> persia: not sure, was just parrotting
[07:58] <amitk_> pitti: it was cleared with slangasek and cjwatson
[07:58] <pitti> amitk_: ah, ok, toss me the source.changes then
[07:58] <persia> Ah.  I ask because I have the two meetings that bracket the old desktop meeting time, so am probably be a good person to shift things.
[08:38] <cjwatson> pitti: I think alpha-1 soft freeze is *slightly* optimistic given that the installer isn't in yet :-)
[08:38] <cjwatson> pitti: I'm waiting on the kernel
[08:38] <amitk_> cjwatson: uploaded
[08:38] <pitti> cjwatson: was just parrotting the "don't upload anything that brings us closer" thing :)
[08:38] <pitti> erm, "doesn't bring"
[08:39] <cjwatson> yeah, this should
[08:39] <cjwatson> amitk_: how come "Add mouse-modules udeb" shows up as an upstream change?
[08:39] <cjwatson> I think the kernel team should reconsider this automatically-generated-changelog lark ...
[08:41] <cjwatson> it's easier to write changelog entries and generate commit messages from them than it is to try to make the other way round work - indeed joeyh explicitly commented that this turned out not to work very well for most folks in practice when he was writing debcommit, http://joey.kitenet.net/blog/entry/devscripts/
[08:42] <cjwatson> amitk_: although thanks :-)
[08:42] <StevenK> mvo: Hiyoubrokeupdatenotifierfixitfixitfixit
[08:43] <amitk_> cjwatson: not completely sure, but maybe because you did not use the git templates that add the UBUNTU: tags for the commits
[08:43] <cjwatson> amitk_: I didn't commit it at all
[08:44] <cjwatson> I just sent the patch and figured you guys would take care of that :)
[08:44] <mvo> StevenK: I did? in what way?
[08:45] <StevenK> (jaunty)root@liquified:~# /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required
[08:45] <StevenK> .: 8: gettext.sh: not found
[08:45] <StevenK> mvo: ^
[08:46] <mvo> StevenK: wehh, sorry, fixing now
[08:46] <amitk_> cjwatson: ok. I didn't notice the lack of the UBUNTU tag in early morning
[08:48] <mvo> StevenK: but its still working, no? this message should be harmless, it appears when gettext-base is not installed
[08:48] <mvo> s/is/should be/ :)
[08:49] <StevenK> mvo: exit value 2
[08:49] <StevenK> mvo: So it isn't
[08:49] <mvo> ok
[08:58] <mvo> StevenK: thanks, fixed. should be happier now
[09:00] <StevenK> mvo: You uploaded it, or you'll batch things?
[09:00] <mvo> StevenK: I uploaded it
[09:01] <StevenK> mvo: Excellent, thank you
[09:04] <juliux> hi sodoes somebody know where i can report a broken package at an offical mirror?
[09:06] <persia> juliux, If it persists, #ubuntu-mirrors tends to be responsive.  If it's not responsive, I think there's an LP project, but I don't find it right now.
[09:07] <juliux> persia: thxs
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: do you think we should talk about pidgin->empathy at UDS?
[09:41] <seb128> pitti: there is not a lot to talk about
[09:42] <seb128> pitti: I mean we can discuss it but that's not really spec worth, that's rather "try it again and see if it's good enough, if not rollback to what we use now"
[09:42] <pitti> seb128: there's reviewing of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmpathyVsPidginUsability and checking whether it sufficiently replaces ekiga, but of course UDS might not be the best forum to do that
[09:42] <seb128> pitti: it'll not replace ekiga this cycle
[09:43] <pitti> seb128: okay; not worth the trouble then, let's ditch bugs then :)
[09:43] <seb128> that has somewhat been discussed on the lists and they don't aim to replace ekiga for now
[09:44] <seb128> or rather the softwares are different enough
[09:50] <seb128> pitti: doing some uds agenda?
[09:51] <pitti> seb128: yes
[09:51] <seb128> pitti: do you think we should discuss building upstream language packs there?
[09:52] <pitti> seb128: I do want to discuss Rosetta and langpacks, yes
[09:52] <seb128> ok good
[09:53] <seb128> we should also discuss how to get extra translations back on the CD ;-)
[09:53] <pitti> 27. CD size war
[09:53] <seb128> using gettext for gconf would be useful there
[09:53] <seb128> which is already on your list ;-)
[09:55] <pitti> right; no need to discuss that, I think, it's a JFDI thing
[09:55] <seb128> yeah
[10:06] <pitti> Keybuk: I can't set the priority of https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/smooth-rosetta-imports
[10:06] <pitti> Keybuk: but you explicitly pointed out that this is important to set
[10:16]  * mvo reboots to run a hdd diagnose check
[10:17] <Keybuk> pitti: hmm
[10:17] <Keybuk> pitti: you don't see "Change priority" at all?
[10:18] <pitti> Keybuk: I do, but clicking on it gives me "Not allowed here"
[10:18] <Keybuk> try now
[10:18] <pitti> Keybuk: anyway, it does appear in the summit.u.c. admin list, despite not having a priority
[10:18] <pitti> Keybuk: no change
[10:19] <Keybuk> how about now?
[10:20] <pitti> Keybuk: \o/ supa-powahs
[10:21] <Keybuk> freaky
[10:21] <Keybuk> stupid Launchpad must have a team requirement hardcoded into it somewhere
[10:32] <cody-somerville> The requirement is probably membership in the distro driver team
[10:33] <Keybuk> you'd think that, *but* normally it doesn't even show the link if you don't have permission
[10:33] <Keybuk> so one bit thinks you have permission, since it's letting you click to change priority
[10:33] <Keybuk> but the bit that lets you actually doing it is clearly looking for something else
[10:38] <cjwatson> that's not consistent, unfortunately; there are a number of places where you'll see a link but get Forbidden if you try to use it
[10:40] <wgrant> Mainly in the bits of LP that haven't been touched at all for at least 2 years...
[10:41] <Keybuk> like Blueprint \o/
[10:41] <wgrant> Yep.
[10:41] <wgrant> It hasn't been touched in faaaar too long.
[10:48] <cody-somerville> It appears that it is also dependent on the view
[11:12] <sabdfl> liw: maybe
[11:27] <viviersf> cjwatson, its me again, the kickstart stuff, can it only install packages from main and restricted in the %packages section ?
[11:34] <cjwatson> viviersf: as of hardy it should allow anything
[11:35] <viviersf> cjwatson, oh ok, doesnt install gstreamer bad and ugly, lemme read logs
[11:35] <cody-somerville> Can someone approve https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/jaunty-xfce4.6 for uds?
[11:48] <cjwatson> mvo: bug 135284: is there a way to feed a list of packages to apt-get such that they'll all end up on the same "command line" even if they overflow the shell's command line length limit?
[11:49] <cjwatson> mvo: I think if we could feed them in some other way then that would fix this bug
[11:51] <mvo> cjwatson: we could use dpkg --set-selection and then apt-get dselect-upgrade
[11:52] <mvo> cjwatson: not sure if that fits into the requirements
[11:52]  * mvo looks at the actual bug
[11:57] <cjwatson> mvo: mm, that might work in this context
[11:57]  * mvo comments in the bug
[11:57] <cjwatson> particularly since nobody will have been running dpkg --set-selections by hand yet
[12:10] <mnabil_work> is there's a ubuntu source for xserver-xorg package in hardy ?
[12:12] <maxb> I don't understand that question, surely there's an ubuntu source for everything?
[12:13] <cjwatson> mnabil_work: apt-get source xserver-xorg
[12:13] <cjwatson> mnabil_work: also, please ask on #ubuntu next time
[12:14] <cjwatson> seb128: I'm trying to get the GTK d-i frontend working in jaunty, and have run up against the fact that we haven't merged vte packaging from Debian in quite a while so we don't have libvte9-udeb. Any objection to me doing a full packaging merge?
[12:16] <mnabil_work> cjwatson, thanks
[12:16] <seb128> cjwatson: no objection, mvo is doing the vte work usually though so maybe worth asking him too before starting
[12:16] <seb128> mvo: ^
[12:17] <mvo> cjwatson: sure, go ahead. please just keep our patches :)
[12:17] <cjwatson> mvo: oh, of course
[12:20] <beuno> pitti, would you like to get super-powers to add/edit events from the Fridge?
[12:35] <Keybuk> Libvolume_id now always probes for all known filesystems, and does not
[12:35] <Keybuk> stop at the first match.
[12:35] <Keybuk> (!!)
[12:35] <Keybuk> well, that only took three years
[12:37] <ogra> and takes 1h to bootup if you have many different blockdevices attached ?
[12:37] <Keybuk> no more or less than it would now
[12:37] <mok0> I am doing a "pseudosync", of a package I ported to Debian, I need to set revision back from Debian's -1 to -0ubuntu3. Should I just add a changelog entry at the top where the revision number steps back?
[12:37] <Keybuk> it just doesn't say "Yup, it's FAT32" anymore when it also has ext3 metadata on it
[12:38] <Keybuk> it now says "I see FAT32 and ext3"
[12:38] <ogra> ah, nice
[12:38] <cjwatson> mok0: why not use -1ubuntu1?
[12:38] <persia> Keybuk, What do you mean by pseudosync?  Debian diff.gz and Ubuntu tar.gz?
[12:39] <mok0> cjwatson: Yes why not? Good idea. Thanks
[12:39] <Keybuk> ok, I can get that tab error when it was Kamion/Keybuk ... but ... *blink*
[12:40] <ogra> m isnt to far from k on the kbd :)
[12:40] <persia> Err.  Right.  Not tab error.  Brain error.
[12:40] <persia> mok0, What do *you* mean by pseudosync?
[12:40] <mok0> persia: 2 secs
[12:41] <mok0> persia: bug 296354
[12:42] <persia> Oh.  Yeah.  You need -1ubuntu1 for that.
[12:42] <mok0> persia: upstream packaged a new tarball with the same version no.
[12:43] <mok0> persia: dunno why that didn't occur to me...
[12:46] <joaopinto> can someone advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ? Thanks
[12:46] <persia> joaopinto, You'd surely do better in #ubuntu-motu for that sort of request.
[12:50] <joaopinto> ops, sorry, wrong channel
[14:36] <pitti> seb128: FYI, I sub'ed you to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apport-retracer-maintenance
[14:36] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[14:49] <pitti> Riddell: is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-ipod still an issue in Kubuntu?
[14:54] <pitti> beuno: I guess it wouldn't hurt; actually I'd just like to add the desktop team meeting there
[14:57] <Riddell> pitti: no
[15:06] <Riddell> pitti: libical is needed in main for kdepimlibs, previously kdepimlibs had its own copy of libical, so no MIR needed?
[15:07] <pitti> Riddell: no, just a MIR bug for tracking, and a quick review of the package by MIR team
[15:07] <pitti> Riddell: one-liner bug description is enough
[15:32] <pitti> doko: bug 296466 doesn't look valid to me, but you know better
[15:41] <Keybuk> cjwatson: we should have a UDS spec
[15:41] <Keybuk> oem-config-make-less-yoda-like
[15:41] <Keybuk> "In which country do you live, hmm?"
[15:42] <doko> pitti: yes, it is
[15:43] <pitti> Keybuk: in the dark side of the world you are
[15:45] <Keybuk> I always wanted to be a Sith
[15:45] <Keybuk> they looked like they had much more fun
[15:46] <ion_> That’s an anagram.
[15:51] <Kw4h> i have a question regarding the gspca drivers on ubuntu
[15:52] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I thought it just said "Select a city in your country and time zone", which doesn't seem too Yoda-like?
[15:52] <Kw4h> in the sourcecode from both the official gspca driver, and the gspca-source package, my webcam sensor isn't defined right
[15:53] <Kw4h> after changing it, building the source, and reloading the driver the logs show that it still loads the wrong sensor
[15:53] <Kw4h> now, I changed the 'gspca' module
[15:53] <Kw4h> but, the module responsible for the webcam is 'gspca_vc032x' (which is depandant on 'gspca_main')
[15:53] <Kw4h> does anyone know how those two interact?
[15:55] <Keybuk> cjwatson: maybe Dell have customised it?
[15:55] <cjwatson> Keybuk: quite possibly; what did it say?
[15:55] <Keybuk> "In which country do you live?"
[15:55] <ion_> en_SW
[15:56] <cjwatson> Keybuk: perfectly grammatical :-) but not from my oem-config
[15:57] <Keybuk> the tense is that special "I want to sound posh and use overly stupid forms" style
[15:57] <Keybuk> "Which country do you live in?"  would be much more ... well
[15:57] <Keybuk> better
[15:57] <cjwatson> that's not a tense :-)
[15:57] <cjwatson> but yes, I agree
[15:57] <Keybuk> voice
[15:57] <cjwatson> word order, I think
[15:57] <cjwatson> "voice" has a special grammatical meaning (active vs. passive)
[15:57] <Keybuk> sorry, I'm momentarily stunned by the fact that the Mini 9 boots slower with all of the customisations than virgin ubuntu
[15:59] <cjwatson> some people reorder the preposition in such sentences because either (a) they've been bamboozled by the prescriptivists (b) they want to avoid long tedious arguments with people who've been bamboozled by the prescriptivists
[15:59] <cjwatson> I often fall into (b) myself
[16:00] <Keybuk> but course of great english thing about order words matter doesn't
[16:00] <Keybuk> least at far as the sentence understanding of goes
[16:00] <johanbr> To paraphrase Dave Barry, "Bamboozled by the prescriptivists" would make an excellent album title.
[16:00] <calc> beuno: ping
[16:01] <persia> Keybuk, It's a little more important than that.
[16:01] <calc> beuno: it is #ubuntu-desktop on Tuesday at 1600UTC after all :)
[16:02] <Keybuk> oh, latin, it's not; but romantic other languages better than is
[16:02] <Kw4h> ehm, were my above questions readable? (so I'm not silenced or something :P)
[16:03] <Keybuk> wow, that's almost, as fun as, impressions, of, William Shatner
[16:04] <tseliot1> Kw4h: maybe you should ask in #ubuntu-kernel
[16:04] <Kw4h> heh thanks
[16:04] <Kw4h> all these channels...
[16:07] <tseliot1> this channel will soon be renamed #ubuntu-english-syntax
[16:07] <Kw4h> heh, what's that about then? :P
[16:11] <Keybuk> cjwatson: the only situation, offhand, that I can think of for beginning a sentence with "In which" is if you're Bob Holness
[16:12] <cjwatson> Keybuk: as James Bond or in Blockbusters?
[16:12] <Keybuk> err, maybe I'm thinking of another Quiz Show host?
[16:13] <cjwatson> Holness' sentences tended to begin "What P is ..."
[16:13] <cjwatson> or similar :)
[16:13] <Keybuk> "In which town was Arthur Conan Doyle captain of the local cricket club?"
[16:13] <Keybuk> type thing
[16:14]  * persia prefers starting sentences with "in which" when extending other's phrases.
[16:15] <ogra> "Do you live in a country ? If so, in which ?"
[16:15] <ogra> :)
[16:17] <tseliot1> isn't "In which country do you live?" more formal "Which country do you live in?" ?
[16:17] <directhex> Keybuk, you're thinking of the right one. he was the first bond, on the radio adaptations
[16:17] <directhex> as well as the presenter of shows like blockbusters
[16:17] <tseliot1> s/more formal/more formal than/
[16:17] <Keybuk> tseliot1: not by any rules I'm aware of; English has few formality rules
[16:18] <Keybuk> unless you're going to go for the full "In which country doest thou live?" :p
[16:18] <Keybuk> (which is actually informal, but worth a chuckle)
[16:20] <jdong> Keybuk: I suppose PERHAPS by the rule of not ending a sentence with a preposition...
[16:20] <jdong> in which country do you live is probably a BIT more formal, but meh.
[16:20] <Keybuk> http://grammartips.homestead.com/prepositions1.html
[16:20] <cjwatson> Keybuk: actually, the string you quoted is in UNR
[16:20] <tseliot1> Keybuk: my Irish tutor told me that word order (of course not always) can make a sentence more formal. And isn't "thou" shakespearean English?
[16:21] <directhex> tseliot1, thou speakest the truth!
[16:21] <tseliot1> hehe
[16:21] <cjwatson> tseliot1: "don't end a sentence with a preposition" is an oft-quoted "rule", but English suffers from the problem that a lot of rules are made up by grammarians and don't correspond to actual language use by the best speakers and writers
[16:22] <cjwatson> Keybuk: dost :-)
[16:22] <Keybuk> tseliot1: old English, when it still had a formal you and informal þou (thou)
[16:22] <directhex> good lord, someone using þ outside the smiley context of :-þ ?
[16:22] <tseliot1> cjwatson: my tutor didn't tell me that it was wrong to do so. I guess she learnt it from some grammar book
[16:23] <cjwatson> tseliot1: cf. languagelog for more rants on the subject :-)
[16:24] <cjwatson> tseliot1: of course, prescriptivists ultimately influence the language too
[16:24] <tseliot1> Keybuk: yes, right the "natural" evolution of languages
[16:25] <cjwatson> anyway, way off-topic :-)
[16:25] <tseliot1> cjwatson: I didn't know that blog. Thanks for mentioning it
[16:27] <Keybuk> my English teacher tought me a wonderful rule that I always remember
[16:27] <Keybuk> "the more boring, pompous and ridiculous the sentence you write--the less likely someone will actually read it"
[16:28] <tseliot1> ok but, *in which* country did your teacher live? :-P
[16:29] <Keybuk> England
[16:31] <tseliot1> Keybuk: jokes aside, what does it take to make a bluprint appear in this page? https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty/+specs
[16:31] <Keybuk> click the "Propose for meeting agenda" and select uds-jaunty
[16:31] <tseliot1> ok, thanks
[16:34] <tseliot1> Keybuk: will it have to be approved by someone or am I experiencing some kind of bug? (no hurry, I just want to be sure)
[16:34] <Keybuk> it will have to be approved by someone
[16:34] <tseliot1> ah, ok
[16:34] <Keybuk> it helps if that someone knows what to look for
[16:35] <tseliot1> Keybuk: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/wacom-tablets-ui and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/screen-configuration-ui
[16:36] <Keybuk> ah yes, I saw those
[16:36] <Keybuk> who's intending to develop them?
[16:37] <persia> tseliot1, Is there a reason wacoms should be especially different from other tablet PC touchscreens?
[16:38] <Keybuk> tseliot1: done
[16:38] <tseliot1> Keybuk: thanks a lot
[16:39] <tseliot1> persia: I have yet to receive the actual (wacom) hardware via mail therefore I wouldn't know
[16:40] <tseliot1> persia: does xsetwacom work for non-wacom devices?
[16:40] <persia> tseliot1, OK.  I know there's some detail implementation differences in terms of wacom's mouse/pen/etc. support, but as a touchscreen user, I'd certainly like to be able to have something for other tablets or convertibles as well.
[16:40] <persia> No :)  That's why I'm hoping for something general.
[16:41] <tseliot1> persia: this is something we can discuss at the UDS
[16:41] <persia> Indeed.
[16:42] <tseliot1> maybe ogra can be interested in this ^^ too
[16:43] <ogra> not really
[16:43] <Keybuk> scheduled.
[16:43] <ogra> as i said to persia in a personal chat a min ago, tablets are a lot more painful than touchscreens
[16:44] <tseliot1> ogra: I suspected that and this is why I might work on it ;)
[16:44] <ogra> i love touchscreens and will take care fo all of them happily ... but leave tablets (and their ton of different input devices) to someone else as happily :)
[16:46] <ogra> though it looks like touchscreens will soon be handled by evdev upstream anyway and might not even need any distro love anymore ... i'm in contact with the upstream guy and we'll review the TS stuff in the UDS session
[16:47] <tseliot1> this would be great
[16:47] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
[16:48] <ogra> tseliot1, will you be at UDS ?
[16:48] <tseliot1> ogra: yes, I subscribed to that spec. BTW do you use GDK to deal with pointer devices of touchscreens?
[16:48] <tseliot1> yes, sure
[16:48] <ogra> cool
[16:49] <ogra> currently its all done on an xlib level through the driver
[16:49] <ogra> and i bet the kde people wouldnt be happy if we defaulted to GDK for low level stuff :)
[16:49] <tseliot1> I guess they have their own way to deal with pointers with QT4
[16:50] <ogra> they shouldnt
[16:50] <ogra> its an xorg problem that should be solved on the xorg level
[16:50] <tseliot1> I was thinking about widgets in which you can test the pointer device
[16:50] <ogra> but it should provide some kind of API so calibration tools can hok into it
[16:50] <tseliot1> e.g. the stylus
[16:51] <ogra> well, thats why i prefer touchsreens :)
[16:51] <tseliot1> yes, that's what I meant
[16:51] <tseliot1> heh
[16:51] <ogra> i dont ant to deal with stylus/eraser and frineds
[16:51] <ogra> *want
[16:51] <ogra> or pressure and angle :)
[16:53] <tseliot1> can you set properties (as in touchpads)?
[16:54] <ogra> you can set the resolution
[16:55] <ogra> and a long touch timer (i.e. to emulate a right click on tap+hold)
[16:55] <tseliot1> but isn't that something that randr should do?
[16:55] <ogra> it can only do that if it gets the info from the driver
[16:55] <ogra> and thats where it is configured atm
[16:56] <tseliot1> yes, of course the driver has to support randr
[16:56] <ogra> the movelimit parameter defines fi you use a pen or a thumb for your input
[16:56] <ogra> by adjusting the resolution/sensitivity on a driver level
[16:57] <tseliot1> and do you use a daemon and/or a configuration file to make these settings permanent?
[16:57] <ogra> in intrepid i only worked with the evtuch driver ... and made that use hal-input
[16:58] <tseliot1> ok, so you used an fdi file
[16:58] <ogra> the driver brings an initscript atm
[16:58] <ogra> right on combination with a config file
[16:58] <ogra> *in
[16:58] <tseliot1> aah
[16:58] <ogra> the initscript iterates over the config file and calls hal-set-property
[16:58] <ogra> for all adjustable configuration
[16:59] <ogra> the fdi file only holds the device identification info
[16:59] <ogra> but that might change with the upstream switch to evdev ...
[16:59] <tseliot1> ok, but what happens if X.org is restarted?
[16:59] <ogra> might not need a separate .fdi
[16:59] <ogra> xorg asks hal on restart
[17:00] <tseliot1> ok, so hal properties are still there if xorg is restarted
[17:01] <ogra> right
[17:02] <tseliot1> maybe I will use it for tablets when the driver works better with hal
[17:02] <ogra> that might surely help with the general setup ... but you still need additional stuff for the input devices on tablets
[17:03] <ogra> since each can have its own handling and config
[17:03] <tseliot1> I've got X-Kit for that
[17:03] <tseliot1> but it would require restarting the xserver
[17:03] <tseliot1> but of course there's xsetwacom
[17:04] <tseliot1> X-Kit --> to configure the xorg.conf
[17:04] <ogra> right
[17:04] <ogra> i dont want xorg.conf to be involved at all
[17:05] <tseliot1> heh, you can...
[17:20] <NCommander> Who's archive day is it?
[17:20] <cjwatson> is the wiki broken? :)
[17:21] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration says Riddell
[17:55] <Riddell> pitti: I've created the bugs https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sru/+bugs?field.bug_reporter=jr
[17:55] <Riddell> pitti: can I copy to -proposed?
[17:56] <NCommander> Riddell, so svk ... :-)
[17:59] <Keybuk> rickspencer3: Welcome! :p
[18:00] <Riddell> hi rickspencer3
[18:00] <Riddell> NCommander: onto it
[18:11] <rickspencer3> Hi Riddell
[19:17] <NCommander> Keybuk, ping
[20:58] <jdstrand> lamont: fyi-- I just requested a sync for bind9, since you incorporated all the ubuntu changes
[20:58] <jdstrand> lamont: hi btw :)
[21:01] <lamont> jdstrand: kewl
[21:02] <lamont> which reminds me, I need to finish the util-linux madness
[21:27]  * calc sees how many new MIRs he needs for OOo 3.0 and lol's
[21:27] <calc> poor MIR review team :\
[21:28] <calc> of course poor me for having to write them all as well, heh
[21:28] <calc> its 21 binary packages, haven't verified how many sources that involves
[21:29] <TheMuso> calc: Fun.
[21:37] <cjwatson> you don't need MIRs if it's just replacing something already in main with similar code but a different package name
[21:37] <cjwatson> so if OOo 2 is dropping out of main at the same time then ...
[21:39] <calc> cjwatson: oh i mean the new build depends, heh :)
[21:39] <calc> OOo keeps growing new build depends
[21:41] <cjwatson> ah
[21:41]  * cjwatson finally gets around to writing that script to check for override mismatches between architectures that he's been meaning to write for about three years
[21:42] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/architecture-mismatches.txt
[21:43] <cjwatson> it should probably group them by source but I don't care that much
[21:43]  * elmo cries quietly in the corner that that's even possible
[21:44] <cjwatson> elmo: it does in theory let us get priorities right for all architectures, mind you
[21:44] <cjwatson> not that we've been taking advantage of it
[21:44] <cjwatson> some of http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/priority-mismatches.txt is hard to solve otherwise though
[21:47] <directhex> i can understand how beagle would disperse from reality for hppa OR ia64, but not both together
[21:49] <cjwatson> it's a soyuz bug and depends on when they happened to build and when the archive admin processing NEW dealt with them
[21:49] <cjwatson> I've fixed the overrides in the db now
[21:50] <cjwatson> (those binaries were supposed to be in main; this sort of thing is why I wrote this script ...)
[21:52] <NCommander> hey infinity
[21:57] <NCommander> cjwatson, why is it the binaries require explicate overrides on a per-architectural basis? It seems kinda excessive ...
[22:00] <cjwatson> soyuz design feature/bug depending on how you look at it
[22:00] <cjwatson> I brought it up years ago, not particularly planning to do so again though
[22:04] <calc> if i want echo the value of a variable in debian/rules like KDE_VER in the following
[22:04] <calc> BUILD_DEPS += , kdelibs$(shell echo "$(KDE_VER)+1" | bc)-dev $(KDELIBS_MINVER)
[22:05] <calc> shouldn't a line "echo $(KDE_VER)" work?
[22:06] <wgrant> cjwatson: Is that really all of them, or just those involving main? I expected there to be quite a few differences between universe/multiverse due to some Soyuz races.
[22:07] <cjwatson> wgrant: that's all
[22:07] <cjwatson> modulo script bugs of course, but it doesn't hardcode main
[22:08] <wgrant> cjwatson: Hm. Maybe we detected and got them all fixed already...
[22:08] <cjwatson> wgrant: it doesn't check "source in universe, binaries in multiverse" type problems
[22:08] <wgrant> Right.
[22:08] <cjwatson> which I suspect are more common
[22:08] <wgrant> I was wondering about that, because that happens a bit.
[22:09] <wgrant> Because override changes go wrong when something is in UNAPPROVED or NEW.
[22:09] <cjwatson> might be able to do that, just more complicated logic because that sort of thing is sometimes ok
[22:09] <calc> gar heisenbug
[22:09] <wgrant> Checking for source in universe + all binaries in multiverse, should yield fairly usable results.
[22:10] <cjwatson> yeah, that's true
[22:11] <wgrant> Well, source in some component and no binaries in that component, in general.
[22:12] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/architecture-mismatches # warning: not exactly pretty, but patches welcome
[22:12]  * cjwatson goes out for a bit
[22:23] <calc> we are in alpha 1 freeze right now, correct?
[22:23] <directhex> o_o freezes?
[22:23] <directhex> in november?
[22:27] <RainCT> directhex: soft freeze in main, for the CD
[22:27] <RainCT> *alpha CD
[22:27] <RainCT> directhex: seems like you're missing some ML subscriptions ;)
[22:28] <directhex> RainCT, more mailing lists? no ta :|
[22:29] <RainCT> directhex: I think those are send devel-announce or something like that.. low traffic ;P
[23:41] <NCommander> infinity, pitti, ping
[23:43] <NCommander> cjwatson, ping
[23:43] <NCommander> Keybuk, ping?
[23:44]  * NCommander needs someone who can rescore builds :-/