=== leonel_ is now known as leonel
=== willbrod is now known as william
yn1vfitoria: Hello man!00:39
fitoriayn1v: what's up!00:39
yn1vfitoria; r you having a nervous break down ?00:40
yn1vI am her for you !00:40
yn1vha ha here no her00:41
fitoriagreat :P00:41
* Hobbsee suggests that here is not the place.00:42
pinolilloI have a problem with ubuntu 8,04, somebody of Nicaragua or that speaks Spanish so that it helps me please.00:44
Sp4rKypinolillo: #ubuntu or  #ubuntu-es for support please00:45
yn1vpinolillo is getting plenty of attention at #ubuntu-ni right now!00:47
bobesponjapinolillo: fitoria is from nicaragua :)00:47
pinolilloThank you very much to help me.00:48
ubottuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: November 18 2008, 00:56:25 - Next meeting: Americas Regional Board in 1 hour 3 minutes00:56
williaman hour 2 minutes to start00:58
ubottuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: November 18 2008, 01:21:09 - Next meeting: Americas Regional Board in 38 minutes01:21
williamsomebody has the list01:22
TiMiDolist for?01:22
TiMiDowilliam, the list for what?01:23
williampeople who applied to be an ubuntu memeber01:24
pedro_william: is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas01:24
pedro_you're welcome01:26
fitoriasoy 4to01:26
TiMiDoI'm the Fifth person in line01:27
anakronHi all01:27
anakronHI Brian Murray01:27
TiMiDohey anakron01:27
anakronHi Timido01:28
TiMiDoWhat's up anakron01:28
anakronnothing really01:29
anakroni must study now, but i think that it will be interesting01:29
anakronso ill stay here some minutes01:29
TiMiDoyeah just look around perhaps.01:30
TiMiDoanakron, the meeting will be held in like 20 more minutes.01:30
ubottuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: November 18 2008, 01:30:17 - Next meeting: Americas Regional Board in 29 minutes01:30
anakronim looking for mrooney, Timido, have you ever seen him?01:40
TiMiDonot really anakron01:41
TiMiDoanakron, he is online though so msg him01:41
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Americas Regional Board Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 11:00: Community Council | 18 Nov 16:00: Server Team | 18 Nov 17:00: Kernel Team | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team
ubottuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: November 18 2008, 01:51:24 - Current meeting: Americas Regional Board01:51
=== eightyeight is now known as atoponce
=== vorian is now known as heHATEme
ubottuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: November 18 2008, 01:54:47 - Current meeting: Americas Regional Board01:54
vorheHATEme: Is that a cry for help?01:55
musikgoathi all!01:55
TiMiDohi musikgoat01:55
TiMiDoGood Luck musikgoat =)01:55
alucardnihi and good luck musikgoat :)01:55
musikgoatthanks :-)  should I be expecting a test :-)01:56
TiMiDono but an interview perhaps :X01:56
williamhow much time left?01:56
musikgoatthat, i can handle better01:56
=== heHATEme is now known as vorian
atoponceeveryone here?02:00
alucardnihi atoponce02:00
TiMiDoyeah i am here atoponce02:00
elkan76me too!!02:00
SajnoxI'm here, goodnight to everybody02:00
ubottuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: November 18 2008, 02:00:32 - Current meeting: Americas Regional Board02:00
atoponcetime to get this show on the road02:00
effie_jayxgood evening all02:01
atoponcejust a reminder: we are going through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas in order02:01
musikgoati'm here as well atoponce, good evening02:01
TiMiDogood evening effie_jayx02:01
alucardnigood evening effie_jayx02:01
leogggood evening and good luck to everybody02:01
atoponceplease have a short statement summarizing your contributions to ubunt, a link to your wiki page, and launchpad profile02:01
TiMiDothank you so much leogg02:01
fitoriagood evening!02:01
williamgood luck to all02:01
nelleryhi everyone and good luck to all :)02:02
atoponcealso, if anyone is here to rally those applying, step up at the appropriate time after their intro02:02
atoponcethe members of the council tonight are:02:02
atoponcemyself, effie_jayx, vorian, pleia2, cody-somerville and pedro_02:03
* vorian curtsies02:03
atoponceso, with that, elkan76 you're up first02:03
elkan76Hi everybody!02:04
elkan76Well as you can see in my wiki page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MauricioPennaloza), my name is Mauricio Peñaloza, i'm a computer engineer and i use linux from 2004. From 2007 i worked actively on Ubuntu-cl my LOCoT.02:04
elkan76Today in this community i'm the forum administrator (http://foros.ubuntu-cl.org) and a member of the LoCo council. I'm not good programming, but i have a  loooooooooooot of patience trying to teach to the people, and working in the stands of our community when we are invited to local fairs, i like talk too much to the people about Ubuntu, trying to demostrate how easy to use is Ubuntu. As you see on the wiki, recently i finish a big project for edi02:04
elkan76And this is all my ubuntu-life (i don't talk about my blog because is horrible), but if you want to look it http://para-opinar.blogspot.com/02:04
vorianwhat is your relationship to the cl.org forum?02:05
vorianah, administration02:05
effie_jayxelkan76,  what recent events have you participated?02:06
vorianelkan76: how do you folks handle difficult users (trolls and the like)?02:06
Hobbseeshoot them!02:07
Hobbseeoh, err...02:07
effie_jayxelkan76, ?02:08
elkan76well i participate on Encuentro Linux 2008, Freedom Software day, Open Minds 200802:08
elkan76and FLISol 200802:08
effie_jayxsounds great, participation was through the loCo team or shared oportunities with lugs?02:09
elkan76Only with the LoCO02:09
elkan76but if any LUG needs me here i am02:10
atoponceelkan76: what would ubuntu membership mean for you?02:10
elkan76Well, first more responsability, because it means that i really understand what Ubuntu means02:11
elkan76and how far we can go if every people makes a real compromise with this OS02:12
atoponceelkan76: what is your main focus? i see some translation work on launchpad, and loco work on your wiki.02:12
atoponceelkan76: ?02:15
elkan76I think that loco work, because translations is only a way to show the people how easy is work on free sf02:15
vorianelkan76: I think you are fabulious! +1 from me!02:15
pleia2well done elkan7602:16
atoponce+1 here as well02:16
effie_jayx+1 from me02:16
pedro_+1 from here too02:17
elkan76many thanks02:17
vorianwelcome aboard elkan7602:18
atoponceelkan76: congrats! welcome aboard02:18
pleia2congrats elkan76 :) welcome02:18
pedro_congratulations elkan76, welcome aboard!02:18
effie_jayxelkan76, bienvenido02:18
atoponceis andres here?02:18
fitoriafelicidades! elkan76!!!02:18
leoggcongrats elkan7602:18
alucardnifelicidades elkan7602:18
TiMiDobuena compare elkan76 te felicito paisano jajaja02:18
n0rmanbien hecho elkan76 :)02:19
Sajnoxcongrats !!02:19
ubottuping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore02:19
pinolillofelicidades prix02:19
atoponceanyone know about andres mujica?02:19
jimbodoorselkan76, felicidades02:19
alucardniatoponce: noup02:19
atoponceok. alucardni, you're next02:19
williamfelicidades elkan02:19
alucardnithanks atoponce02:19
alucardniHi everyone, I'm José Ernesto Dávila Pantoja (alucardni). I'm from Corinto, Nicaragua. My first contact with GNU/Linux was about 8 years ago when I was in college, since there I've used several distros such as: Red Hat 7.2, 7.3, 8 and 9; Mandrake 9.1; Debian Woody r3.0 and adopted Ubuntu as my only distro since Warty.02:20
alucardniI've been working with the Nicaraguan LoCo Team since the very begining to make FOSS be adopted specially by non-geek users. Why am I on FOSS movement? 'Cause I identify myself with the filosophy of FOSS. 'Cause I like it :) and 'Cause it's great to know that your can help others to improve their skills using FOSS even more when you get feedback such as this (https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+question/5002:20
alucardnimy LP: https://launchpad.net/~josernestodavila and my Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Josernesto02:20
effie_jayxalucardni, what best describes your participation in the Ubuntu project ?02:21
leoggI want to cheer for alucardni. He organised our very first event as a LoCo Team in March 2007 and since then he has worked non-stop for the Nicaraguan community. He's a true leader and very enthusiastic about Ubuntu and FOSS.02:22
alucardnieffie_jayx: my comitment to the community,02:22
alucardnieffie_jayx: sometimes I've to travel for 5 hours to participate in an event02:22
cody-somervillealucardni, to which community? The FOSS Community or the Ubuntu community?02:22
atoponceleogg: thx02:22
alucardnicody-somerville: both02:22
cody-somervillealucardni, how have you contributed to the Ubuntu project?02:23
pedro_alucardni: with which other communities of Central America have you been working ? and how's the relationship with those?02:23
alucardnicody-somerville: as you can see on my LP I've been giving support, and making translations for ubuntu02:23
alucardnipedro_: recently I was in Guatemala in a event with the Guatemalan Team02:24
alucardniand we share experiences with the salvadorian team as well02:24
alucardniand right now we are02:24
effie_jayxalucardni, What kidn of participation do you engage in these events?02:24
pedro_alucardni: do you have any photos online we can see or a link to that events?02:25
alucardnieffie_jayx: part of the staff, giving talks02:25
alucardniand workshops02:25
n0rmanI want to support what leogg said, alucardni is one of the key person for the FOSS community in our country.02:25
alucardnipedro_: I've but I'll need sometime to get the links posted here02:26
pedro_alucardni: ok02:26
fitorialet me help alucardni here a photo http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxtour/SFDNicaragua2008#524816131839678982602:27
alucardnithanks fitoria02:28
voriann0rman: but this is for Ubuntu membership, not FOSS membership02:28
fitoriaanother pic http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxtour/SFDNicaragua2008#524816130579514587402:28
williami'm a witnes of alurcardni's work in the comunity, in every event he is at there giving suppport answering, solving issues, and never gives up02:29
effie_jayxalucardni,  what kind of participation do you do for Ubuntu in the spanish community?02:29
fitoriaanother pic http://picasaweb.google.com/linuxtour/LinuxTour2008#519414201686603728202:29
pedro_fitoria: thanks for the links02:30
alucardnieffie_jayx: I'm part of the CC of the Nicaraguan LoCo Team02:30
effie_jayxs/spanish community/ spanish-speaking community02:30
effie_jayxallee,  do you share with other spanish speaking LoCo's or the ubuntu-es community?02:30
alucardniI've been working on translating the ubuntu package desciption02:31
=== Elidix__ is now known as Elidix
alucardnieffie_jayx: and as I said before, I've share some experiences with other centralamerican teams02:31
effie_jayxguatemala, right02:32
alucardnieffie_jayx: and salvador02:32
atoponcealucardni: for me, i'm going to have to say that i would like to see more long term ubuntu-specific contributions. i see lots of general gnu/linux stuff, which is good, but the ubuntu stuff is a but young still02:32
atoponcekeep translating. keep promoting ubuntu. keep holding meetings. keep it documented on your wiki, and come back for reapproval02:33
leoggatoponce: alucardni is member of the Ubuntu-ni community council - besides the fact that he is one of the founders02:33
leoggof our LoCo Team02:34
leoggIn my opinion his work is very Ubuntu specific02:34
effie_jayxleogg, agreed, but the council needs to see more, and maybe we are not seeing enough in what he has brought today02:34
atoponceit's not documented well, which is what i need to base my vote on. i would like to see more of a sustained contribution02:34
williami support what leogg says, he's a co-founder, making translations, conferences, giving classes02:35
atoponcefitoria: you're up02:35
fitoriaMy name is Adolfo J. Fitoria. I'm from Nicaragua. Joined Ubuntu Nicaragua LoCo in June 2007. I am part of ubuntu-ni Community Council, promoting Ubuntu and FLOSS filosophy in many events and doing some coding too. Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fitoria LP: https://launchpad.net/~aj-fitoria02:36
fitoriaif you want link to more photos just ask02:36
leoggI want to cheer for Fitoria as well. He's a talented young man who has giving a lot to this community. We're very proud and thankful with Fitoria and I hope to see him becoming a MOTU pretty soon.02:38
vorianfitoria: what kind of MOTU stuff have you been working on?02:38
fitoriavorian: by the moment just reading a lot :P02:39
williami want to add, that fitoria is one of the most active members of LOCO team here, he has promoved many events, as also work in them, becoming one of the leader in the comunnity02:39
fitoriaI'm starting....02:39
vorianlike what?  :)02:39
vorianoh, excellent02:39
vorianmake sure you come by #ubuntu-motu and ask lots of questions :)02:40
fitoriagreat info :)02:40
vorianfitoria: what's the hardest part of your LoCo?02:41
fitoriaI think that02:42
atoponcefitoria: have you been involved with ubuntu in other ways? forums maybe?02:42
fitoriathe hardest part is to make new members but new dedicated members02:42
fitoriaatoponce: not in forums just mainling list, irc, personal support02:42
fitoriain events02:42
vorianfitoria: yes, the universal LoCo problem.  Any tricks you guys use to help people stay active?02:43
fitoriainstallfest, helping people with their issues02:43
fitoriavorian: constant motivation02:43
fitoriaand to make fun stuff to02:43
fitoriahelp to share knowledge between us02:44
effie_jayxfitoria,  one thing we have been discussing is the participation between distro communities in nicaragua02:44
effie_jayxcould you elaborate a bit on it02:44
fitoriao great02:44
fitoriahere in nicaragua02:44
fitoriawe are very close between distros02:44
fitoriawe work pretty close02:44
fitoriain big events, helping each other in small events also02:45
fitoriait really amazing02:45
fitoriabecause of ubuntu-ni's effort other lugs have born02:45
fitoriaand they have a pretty strong communitary base too02:46
williamhere in Nicaragua there are 5 main distros, Ubuntu, Suse, Debian, Fedora and Mandriva, whoever makes an event, fitoria is there helping in anything he can02:46
bobesponjawilliam: I think those five distros are the majority in every country =)02:47
atoponcefitoria: we would also like to see some more long term ubuntu-specific contributions. some ideas for you, might be more translations, and picking up a small motu project, with the help of the motu team02:47
effie_jayxfitoria, we appreciate the time, the council would like to see you mature you participation in the Ubuntu Community as a whole, promoting in a local team is a good fundation, however we would like to see more work in other areas in the Ubuntu Community as a whole, maybe helping out in the Spanish Speaking community more. we surelly do need the help02:47
effie_jayxI believe if this were reaproval for the Nicaragua LoCo team you would have no prblem,02:48
atoponceok. TiMiDo, you're up02:48
TiMiDoHey there my Name is Aaron H Farias Martinez. I'm from Miami Florida. I've work on ubuntu translating perhaps more than a year. as you can see my launchpad on www.launchpad.net/~harddark02:49
TiMiDosorry about this I'm just a little bit nervious.02:49
atoponcenp. i was too when i applied. :)02:49
TiMiDoyou can ask many questions if you like.02:49
=== Elidix_ is now known as Elidix
TiMiDoand by the way I'm the founder of #Kubuntu-es and i also help there a lot.02:51
atoponceTiMiDo: when did you start the #kubuntu-es channel?02:51
TiMiDoatoponce, 1 year, ago02:52
Hobbsee[13:52] [Notice] -ChanServ- Registered : Jul 17 05:25:57 2007 (1 year, 17 weeks, 5 days, 21:26:28 ago)02:52
atoponceTiMiDo: anyone from the #kubuntu-us irc team to rally for you?02:52
Hobbseeatoponce: -es, not -us.02:52
atoponceer, yeah. :)02:52
* atoponce blames dvorak02:53
TiMiDoyeah effie_jayx02:53
krawekTiMiDo is awesome, that's all02:54
bobesponjaTiMiDo is great02:55
vorianTiMiDo: what is your favorite part of the ubuntu community?02:55
TiMiDothank you bobesponja and thank you so much krawek02:55
vorianwhat do you love to do02:55
HobbseeTiMiDo: asks me every few months for operator access in #kubuntu, fwiw.02:55
TiMiDovor, that is a user friendly interface. and is really easy to explain to users.02:55
vorianhow else have you helped in this fine community02:55
TiMiDovorian, actually on my lab all the computers were migrate to UBUNTU02:56
voriantell us more about that02:56
effie_jayxTiMiDo,  I have to ask. why isn't there a Miami LoCo team?02:56
TiMiDovorian, well my computers. in the lab they had Windows Xp so i've told my teacher. that i wanted it to see ubuntu on those. and he told me can you prove it to me?02:57
vorianso what happened02:58
TiMiDoso i started it to explain it to my Teacher. and he give me the right permission. to actually put them on the lab and Now we have more than 60 computers with UBUNTU02:58
TiMiDoeffie_jayx, because We are working on it with a few friends. from my Computer Science Class. =)02:59
vorianTiMiDo: great stuff02:59
TiMiDoand time wise now we have test. so by december I'll be getting into it =)02:59
vorianTiMiDo: do you promise _not_ to bother Hobbsee again?02:59
TiMiDoand making the Miami Loco team =)03:00
TiMiDoyes i promise vorian sorry about that anyways Hobbsee03:00
effie_jayxTiMiDo,  how close are you to start it?03:00
vorianTiMiDo: did you know that it is possible to earn kubuntu membership?03:01
TiMiDowell i need some work to be done. effie_jayx . and like i said by december I'll have the time. to actually started it =). since I'm getting a 3 weeks vacation.03:01
voriansince it seems you lean that way anyhow03:01
TiMiDovorian, nope03:01
voriani suggest you try that route03:01
vorianin fact, i think there is a kubuntu meeting tomorrow03:01
TiMiDovorian, i started it with ubuntu. and then i started it to messed with kubuntu =)03:02
TiMiDoand i like it. and here i am with ubuntu and kubuntu03:02
TiMiDoand hoping that on December I'll get the loco team for Miami03:03
TiMiDobecause i have a lot of friends that are interesting on it.03:03
TiMiDoand we are planning to do an INSTALL Fest here in FIU.03:03
TiMiDojust Ubuntu.03:04
vorianTiMiDo: check with a fella named bordy (/whois bordy) for some help03:04
vorianon the loco stuff03:04
TiMiDookey he's not online right now.03:04
effie_jayxTiMiDo, I do like your energy, do I do beleive you must work a bit more locally and much more importantly you must integrate your effrts to the ubuntu community.03:04
effie_jayxI would like to see you back for approval soon03:05
TiMiDooh okey03:05
atoponceTiMiDo: i too would like to see a bit more sustained contributions to the community03:05
TiMiDoatoponce, well if you like you can ask in #ubuntu-es03:05
krawekpinolillo: +103:06
vorianpinolillo: pardon?03:06
williamthis sucks03:06
atoponceTiMiDo: get the loco team started, get some activities and release parties, and get some active membership03:06
atoponceTiMiDo: i can help you start the team in #ubuntu-us if you need help03:06
TiMiDohmm okey03:06
williamoops, wrong tab03:07
effie_jayxTiMiDo,  and make sure yout team stays in sync with other communities in the ubuntu LoCo landscape03:07
vorianwilliam: noted for future reference ;-)03:07
atoponcemusikgoat: you're up03:07
musikgoatHi,  so my contributions seem to be short in comparison, but I have been a frequenter of the #ubuntu channel, assisting with answering questions that I know, and providing support for situations that I have direct knowledge (networking and hardware).  I have also assisted with bug reporting, and hope to patch a bug some day :-)03:08
musikgoathttp://wiki.ubuntu.com/musikgoat   &&  https://lauchpad.net/~musikgoat03:08
musikgoatI have been an activist of ubuntu and linux in school, and have just recently found the chicago loco, and hope to assist nixternal in reviving this loco03:09
vorianmusikgoat: anyone from #ubuntu or chicago LoCo here to speak for ye?03:10
leo_rockwit's GNU/Linux03:10
mstreetlinuxleo_rockw: ++03:10
atoponcemusikgoat: what two companies did you convert?03:11
leo_rockwsigh backatcha03:11
atoponcemusikgoat: ?03:12
musikgoati haven't converted any companies, but I did get my intro to (gnu/)linux class running on ubuntu rather than redhat, and assisted my teacher and classmates in troubleshooting03:12
atoponceoh. heh. reading the wrong wiki. :)03:13
musikgoatvorian: i guess not,  as I've just recently started idling in that channel03:13
musikgoatand been awaiting a future chicago lug to meet some of the other members03:14
vorianmusikgoat: we are looking for sustained contributions which are visible03:14
musikgoati see that, and understand my contributions have not been sustained yet03:14
vorianagain, you are off to a smashing start03:14
atoponcemusikgoat: yes. please continue to work toward contributing to ubuntu. there's much work to be done.03:15
musikgoat:-)  definately03:15
atoponceSajnox: you're up03:15
Sajnoxy name is Miguel Sajnovsky, I'm from Argentina, 33 years and as long as I remember, computers and technology were part of my personality.03:16
SajnoxSince October '07 I'm a moderator in the Argentina Team subforum and one of the admins of our LoCo Mailing List, and I have to make sure that the CoC and the forum's rules are always observed, I read every post. We are also having a great amount of mails in the mailing list03:16
SajnoxI have been involved organizing release parties (Hardy and Intrepid), present with the loco team in Install fests, JRSL (Free software conferences). At the latest release pary I gave a talk about Ubuntu, telling to all the pepople what we have been doing, what we are doing and what we plan to do, encouraging them to get envolved in the community and to participate03:16
Sajnoxhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/sajnox / https://launchpad.net/~sajnovsky-gmail03:17
beunoHi!  I've known Miguel for quite some time now, both in real life and through all the channels we have in our LoCo (IRC, mailing lists, forums), and I can only say good things about him. He's been key in moderating the tremendous traffic we have, explaining and enforcing the Code of Conduct where appropriate, and is has organized quite a few succesful events.03:17
beunoHe's also been extremely in helping many new-commers blend into the community of Ubuntu Argentina and help them through the initial pains.03:17
beunoPersonally, I'd be thrilled to see him on board as an Ubuntu member after all the hours of consistent dedication and patience he's put in.03:17
beuno(thank god for tomboy)03:17
marianomHi My name is Mariano Mara: I'm ubuntu member since sep-06 and Argentina's loco team contact. I'm here to support Miguel (Sajnox) who has been doing an incredible job in the Argentina Loco Team. Since the day he join us, he was eager to learn and help others. He was -and still is- the driven force behind a lot of things in the group, not only particular events but always trying to find how to make things work within the group and encourag03:18
vorianthanks beuno03:18
atoponcewow. thx beuno and marianom!03:18
marianomtomboy +1!!!03:18
vorI'd like to give a big cheers for sajnox.  To reinforce what I wrote on his wiki, he really is the heart of the Buenos Aires Ubuntu community.  We have one of the best (and biggest) Ubuntu communities in the world here and it wouldn't be so without sajnox.03:18
vorianthanks marianom03:18
voriangrrr vor03:18
beunohalf a vorian!03:18
beunohe should get half a vote  :)03:18
effie_jayxSajnox, any participation in spanish speaing comminity as whole?03:19
Sajnoxto be honest, no03:19
MTecknologyhey... i thought meeting was tomorrow03:20
effie_jayxSajnox, shame, we do need it03:20
Sajnoxmy studies are not IT related03:20
Sajnoxand, the forums and the mailing list03:20
Sajnoxtakes alot of time03:20
Sajnoxto read all03:20
vorianSajnox: nice work on the website03:20
Sajnoxorganizing the events, and the web03:21
Sajnoxthanks !!03:21
SajnoxI dedicate a lot of my free time to ubuntu03:21
effie_jayxSajnox, I ment more causal help with support in the spanish speaking community, maybe exchanging emails with some experience03:21
SajnoxI'm focused in the Argentinean team03:21
effie_jayxSajnox, ohh I see03:21
SajnoxI'm always at the forums, and in the mailing list03:22
effie_jayxSajnox, and you are an official member of the Argentinian team, right?03:22
vorianhaha. nice picture with mad dog03:22
Sajnoxbut, I see your point, and I ill be glad to extend our participation to our spanish speaking forums03:23
Sajnoxthanks, he was really nice with us03:23
Sajnoxconsidering that we are so many people03:23
vorianhe is a really cool guy03:23
Sajnoxit will be easy to encourage the guys to get envolved in other spanish speaking forums03:23
effie_jayxSajnox, I believe you have good peole backing your membership, beuno  is probably the best mentor anyone can have03:24
SajnoxI know03:24
Sajnoxand I'm proud of having his support03:24
vorianI think you are fab fab fab! +1 from me :)03:24
effie_jayxSajnox,  however we need people like you in the general spanish-speaing community. I am very keen on seeing people integrate efforts03:24
effie_jayxSajnox,  I would like to see you participate in the Ubuntu Community  at large, and I am sure beuno  can help you there. beuno  has gone to become one of the key participants in the bazzar developments and I still remember the videos of his talks in lug meetings. please do follow his mentorship and it will lead to Ubuntu Membership in the near future03:27
effie_jayxfor the time being I will ask you to come back again soon03:27
effie_jayxso I say -103:29
beunoso that's a +1 and a -1?03:29
effie_jayxthat's a "please come back again" -103:30
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 11:00: Community Council | 18 Nov 16:00: Server Team | 18 Nov 17:00: Kernel Team | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
* beuno tries to tilt irc towards more +1's, and a compromise to expand to other LoCos03:30
pedro_a +1 from me, i really like his loco work, and Sajnox if you need help running those bug jams just ping me ;-)03:30
effie_jayxthe count is vorian +1, effie_jayx -1, pedro_ +103:31
effie_jayxpleia2, ? cody-somerville ?03:31
atoponcei'm going to give a +1. i like the activity on the mailing list, and the activity on the forums.03:31
pleia2great activity in the forums and I like the loco work +103:31
effie_jayxSajnox,  welcome then, ;)03:32
unimixCongratulations Sajnox !!03:32
pleia2welcome Sajnox :)03:32
Sajnoxthanks to all guys03:32
* beuno cheers for Sajnox 03:32
vorianSajnox: congrats!03:32
leoggSajnox: congrats03:32
Sajnoxand will take seriously effie_jayx recomendations03:32
* marianom congrats Sajnox, he really deserves it!!03:32
atoponceSajnox: welocme aboard!03:32
vorCongrats Sajnox03:32
Sajnoxthanks to all of you guys !!!03:32
unimixGreat Sajnox !! You deserves it, man !!03:32
pedro_congrats Sajnox, welcome!03:32
musikgoatcongrats Sajnox03:33
leo_rockwSajnox: :D03:33
atoponceMTecknology: you're next03:33
* MTecknology is nervous like his first kiss03:33
vorianMTecknology: please tell us about yourself, and give some good links03:33
MTecknologyobviously https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MTecknology03:34
atoponceMTecknology: do you have a summary/introduction?03:35
MTecknologynot intro03:35
pleia2MTecknology: he means, and in channel introduction :)03:35
effie_jayxMTecknology,  please do give us a mitunte to read your wiki then03:36
atoponceMTecknology: i noticed that you say one your wiki that you've converted two companies. which ones?03:36
MTecknologySecure Banking Solutions (got 3/5 of their servers) and Arne's Computer and Paintball (3/3 servers)03:37
MTecknologyin channel: I've been spending a lot of time with the SD LoCo recently and have taken over the entire thing. I've also been on IRC for a few years and spent almost all of my time in #ubuntu channels.03:37
=== fitoria is now known as kfitoria
=== Elidix is now known as Klidix
=== mstreet_ is now known as mstreek
MTecknologySorry for the long Wiki, I've noticed that it's longer than most others.03:38
pedro_MTecknology: in the wiki said that you're a bugsquad member, in your opinion, what's the most difficult part of working with bug reports in Ubuntu?03:39
=== Chardot is now known as Khardot
MTecknologypedro_: When somebody files a bug and forgets about it. It gets to be a pain to distinguish bugs that exist from those that don't.03:39
MTecknologyThat's where I built most of my karma from. Just trying to invalidate bugs that are expired and forgotten.03:40
effie_jayxgreat bug work03:41
MTecknologythanks :)03:41
=== Klidix is now known as Elidix
=== Khardot is now known as Chardot
MTecknologyActually, I'm working on that Secure VPN Ubuntu installation now. I was hoping to finish it by the end of the month.03:42
=== mstreek is now known as mstreet
atoponceMTecknology: what is your main focus with ubuntu contributions?03:42
MTecknologyThe last 2 months have been with the SD LoCo03:43
atoponcewhat about prior to that?03:43
effie_jayxMTecknology,  any testimonials you could refer us to?03:44
MTecknologyprior to that it was handling bugs. Most of the bugs I was working on pertaining to hardware are fixed now. It's hard to work on hardware bugs that I can't test and try to patch up.03:44
musikgoatI have to put in my input that he is an avid supporter in the irc, and is very knowledgeful and energetic when it comes to walking people through troubleshooting03:45
atoponceMTecknology: have you done any wiki submissions or forums work?03:45
MTecknologyI don't have any testimonials, I was trying to find a few people that could say something. I know stdin, nalioth, and maybe LjL could say something useful but I haven't been able to get a hold of them.03:45
MTecknologyatoponce: I pretty much completely rebuilt the SD LoCo Wiki03:45
* Hobbsee coudl say he's a routine part of #ubuntu-offtopic03:46
effie_jayxHobbsee, define routine part"03:46
Hobbseeeffie_jayx: "one who is often there and talking"?03:46
MTecknologyatoponce: I also created a website for our LoCo. I created it to try to tie everything the LoCo offers together03:47
effie_jayxlet us vote Council03:48
MTecknologyThis might help some - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-sd/03:48
MTecknologyerr - too late03:48
atoponceMTecknology: i like the bug work, but i want to see more. what would be really impressive (the deal breaker for me), is if you could get the sd team up and running, active, and stable03:49
effie_jayxpleia2, cody-somerville vorian ?03:49
effie_jayxpedro_, ?03:49
atoponceof course, you've been in #ubuntu-us, so you know where to find us if you need help on that03:49
MTecknologyI guess I've dabbled in a lot of different parts of the community and it's just in the past couple months that it became my focus. My goal is the bring the team to a point where I don't need to do anything to have it running by itself.03:50
pleia2MTecknology: I'd like to see more prosperous LoCo developments as well :) great bug work though, hope you keep that up as well03:50
effie_jayxI say +1 for his bug work which is impressive and his small references from key members like Hobbsee03:50
effie_jayxwhich can demonstrate your constant effort to improve03:50
atoponcevorian: ?03:50
effie_jayxpedro_, ?03:51
atoponcecody-somerville: ?03:51
atoponce(the lost one :) )03:51
MTecknologyHobbsee: any chance you could put something on my Wiki for me after this? I'll see who else has something to say03:51
* beuno wonders why some get commas and some get semi-colons03:51
pedro_MTecknology: I'd like to see a bit more of bug work, like becoming a member of the bug control team, but you're going in the right way, keep the good work there03:51
effie_jayxbeuno, xchat settings ;)03:52
MTecknologybeuno: At least it's not as bad as those that use unicode nick completes03:52
atoponcexchat, irssi, kopete, pidgin... they all do it one way or another.03:52
effie_jayxso recap03:52
MTecknologyeffie_jayx: looks like an overall -1?03:53
effie_jayxatoponce, -1 pedro_ -1, pleia2 -1, effie_jayx +103:53
effie_jayxvorian, ?03:53
MTecknologyIf I keep working on bugs and make it into bug control, and if I get my LoCo running smoothly?03:54
pleia2MTecknology: you're on the right track :) you've been working hard lately and that's fantastic03:54
atoponceMTecknology: that would seal the deal03:54
MTecknologypleia2: It's hard since I work 0200 - 1000 on the weekends now03:54
MTecknologyatoponce: how far should the LoCo be before I reapply?03:55
effie_jayxMTecknology,  please do try again, your bug work is fantastic, please make sure the LoCo team does rock solid for the ood of all the South Dakota Ubunteros03:55
MTecknologyso - to a point that if I die, the team lives on03:55
pleia2MTecknology: maybe have a few events you helped coordinate under your belt? also more activity would be good, you're certainly a driving force right now but it'd be nice to see a few more active people03:56
pleia2MTecknology: right!03:56
atoponceMTecknology: tough to say. each team is different. some are active on the mailing list, others forums, other launchpad, others in person. just depends on the dynamic of your team03:56
MTecknologythis is a sparse state - person to person is hard03:56
atoponceexactly. so you can empower the teamm in other ways03:56
MTecknologythe road maps on the teams wiki are basically what I'm shooting for at the point03:56
MTecknologyIt hurts to be hoping for 10 active members in a few months - but - we all gotta start somewhere03:57
pleia2setting goals is good :)03:57
MTecknologyanyway - I guess I've never been here before so it's at least nice to know what I need to shoot for.03:57
atoponcewell, i want to thank everyone who showed up tonight. congratulations to those who made it. for those who didn't, PLEASE DON'T GET DISCOURAGED! we need your help. wee need your enthusiasm. we need your support03:58
atoponcekeep plugging along, and we'll make ubuntu the best distro out there03:58
MTecknologyIs that what I need to do to get all votes +1, I want a 100% vote when I come in. :)03:58
atoponceMTecknology: you just need a majority from the quorum with at least 303:59
MTecknologyatoponce: I know, but I wanna come roaring in next time. :)03:59
atoponcedo it!04:00
MTecknologyalrighty, I'll focus on those two areas04:00
elkan76MKTecknology: If i can debbug as you can do it.... uffff.. you work very good.04:00
MTecknologyelkan76: wanna say that on my wiki?04:00
beunoatoponce, effie_jayx, vorian, pedro_, awesome meeting, thanks  :)04:02
* atoponce nods04:02
=== atoponce is now known as eightyeight
elkan76Well this is a happy day for me but i'm so tired too, it's time to go to sleep.04:07
elkan76See ya everybody!!04:07
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 16:00: Server Team | 18 Nov 17:00: Kernel Team | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
dholbachhello everybody10:59
dholbachTechnoviking: are you up already? :)10:59
* cody-somerville is here.11:00
dholbachburgundavia is not up yet/not on IRC, I pinged mako and sabdfl11:00
dholbachhi amachu11:02
dholbachlet's wait another 5 minutes - I just pinged a few CC folks11:02
elkbuntuhe jinxed himself. he was just saying his connection is flaky.11:09
* elkbuntu ties amachu to the /names list.11:10
elkbuntugood $timeofday, sabdfl.11:12
dholbachhi sabdfl11:12
sabdflhowdy elkbuntu and friends11:12
amachuHi sabfdl11:12
sabdflapologies for my lateness11:12
dholbachsabdfl: seems like we're the only ones here today11:12
dholbachwe have two agenda items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda11:13
dholbachfirst one would be a quick update on bug11:13
dholbacherr... bug 27282611:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 272826 in ubuntu ""Ubuntero" inappropriate for female contributors" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27282611:13
sabdflI'm +1 on eliminating the phrase from LP11:13
sabdflin favour of "This person has signed the Code of Conduct"11:14
dholbachyeah, that was the concensus11:14
sabdfli'm also +1 on generalising the code of conduct so that it can apply unchanged to other projects too11:14
dholbachyes, it's great to have that resolved :)11:14
sabdfldid mdke want anything further from the discussion?11:14
dholbachno, he moved the CoC to a bzr branch, so the work on generalising it can begin11:15
dholbachI just think it's good to have the decision in the public too :)11:15
dholbachthe second item is amachu's: the Asia Oceania RMB seems to be short on members11:16
sabdflwhat's the bzr branch URL for the coc?11:16
amachudholbach: yes11:16
dholbachhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania shows 7 direct members11:16
dholbachsabdfl: hang on11:16
sabdflcome back amachu!11:17
elkbuntui'll be leading the discussion from the RMB side if amachu drops, as amachu's connection is a little touchy..... as so.11:17
Tm_Telkbuntu: saving angel you are for him11:17
elkbuntuhe's in a relatively remote area today, his connection is excusably poor.11:17
dholbachsabdfl: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct11:17
sabdflgo ahead elkbuntu11:18
Tm_Tamachu: welcome back11:18
sabdflor amachu11:18
* elkbuntu gives amachu a chance to speak first...11:20
amachuHi, Based on our experience we decided to have two two more members on board11:20
amachuthe experience that we had over the past few months11:20
sabdflwow, we have three north-american folks in the asia-pac regional board11:20
sabdfland three eu too11:21
amachu1) We meet the necessary quorom to conduct the meeting11:21
amachubut thats all11:21
elkbuntusabdfl, we have had nothing but non-asia-pacific for a while11:21
sabdflelkbuntu: in terms of requests for consideration?11:21
dholbachhm? who's north american? and who's european?11:22
amachuthe geographic area asia oceania covers is large, not all members are convenient with..11:22
elkbuntuyes, although we did actually get one from perth, but most have been -eu based lately11:22
amachuelkbuntu: I will wait. please proceed.11:23
elkbuntuyes, 5pm in india is like midnight for NZ. evening is a very abstract term for us.11:23
elkbuntuwhile we're getting the -eu people, and that's great.. we worry that it's at the cost of our own regions11:23
sabdfli agree11:24
sabdflwe do have an EMEA board, right?11:24
Tm_TI wouldn't mind having 1 or 2 from -eu I guess, but majority should be "local" if possible11:25
sabdfli agree that it makes little sense to have an asiapac board that include north-am and eu folks, and hears requests from the eu on a regular basis11:25
elkbuntuand our board fits them well given that the earliest we can have it is is around 5pm India time, perfect for -eu student types11:26
sabdfli think having some overlap is wonderful, both from the board membership point of view (consistency) and from the requestor's perspective (flexibility on timing of meetings)11:26
Tm_Tsabdfl: agreed on that11:26
elkbuntuwhat we're proposing is to have a few extra people, and alternate times.11:26
sabdflin other words, if the asiapac board meets at a time that suits asiapac, and it so happens that someone from the EU finds that time better for them, then they can be considered there and then11:26
sabdflthis is an easy +1 from me!11:26
sabdfldo you have candidates for nomination?11:27
elkbuntui dont believe so. I certainly dont, and australia is already well represented11:27
Tm_Telkbuntu: Jucato?11:27
elkbuntui believe persia and amachu are more likely to have ideas11:27
persiaI'd like to see one more from west asia, and one more from central, to help keep balance between east (09:00 UTC) and west (15:00 UTC).  I don't have specific candidates.11:28
sabdfli could quite happily grow the board by 2-4 members11:28
sabdflto give you flexibility11:28
dholbachif we'd follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation you could think about it and send nominations to the CC list11:28
sabdflso, all we need are some good candidates11:28
amachuyes. That would help even the number number of board members present at the meeting11:28
sabdflin an ideal world, i'd like to try a runoff election, where the CC nominates 6 folks for a contest for 4 places, for example11:29
sabdflor 4 for 211:29
dholbachI'm happy with that too11:29
sabdfldo you guys think you can look at the forums, irc, mailing lists and other parts fo the community and find 4-6 candidates?11:29
* Tm_T goes to see her baby back to hospital, see you around ->11:29
amachusabdfl: that should be possible11:30
persiaIt may well be 6 for 4, as a couple of our members haven't attended in a while, and have been relatively unresponsive to pings, but for a total size of 9ish.11:30
sabdflcheers Tm_T, hope it's all ok11:30
sabdflpersia: that's fine by me!11:30
Tm_Tsabdfl: she is, just had born 2 days ago (:11:30
elkbuntusabdfl, freshly baked :)11:30
Tm_Tbut gone really ->>>11:30
sabdfli think you'll find it gets better if you have a consistent time that's generally sane for folks in a region11:30
dholbachTm_T: congratulations :-)11:30
sabdflTm_T: that's a very direct approach to growing the community you're taking there11:31
amachusabfdl: thanks for agreeing to increase the Board's strength11:32
sabdflsigh. back in the day, when dictators were less benevolent... http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2003/08/08/917468.htm?site=science/greatmomentsinscience11:32
sabdflok, amachu, persia, elkbuntu, thanks11:32
dholbachok... that's settled then - CC waits for nominations and we can set up the polls soon11:32
sabdflis that a wrap?11:32
amachupersia: elkbuntu : what do you think on getting candiates from irc logs etc.,11:33
elkbuntusabdfl, dont go getting any ideas! No pony for you.11:33
dholbachI'd say so... any other business?11:33
cody-somervilleI have a quick question.11:33
sabdfli'm crap with a sword anyhow11:33
sabdflgo ahead cody-somerville11:33
cody-somervilleI was wondering if there was any news about the IRC Council's call for nominations and sabdfl's call for nominations for the tech board.11:33
Hobbseecody-somerville: ++11:34
Hobbseecody-somerville: i've been vaguely watching for that, and have heard nothing.11:34
sabdflwe have two good candidates for the TB11:34
sabdfli have been holding out for more, for a runoff11:34
sabdflbut at this stage, perhaps we should just move forward with confirmation votes for those two?11:34
elkbuntusabdfl, the masses might like the teaser11:35
sabdfli agree, a runoff would be more fun, and both of the candidates we have are OK to be part of that11:35
sabdfli wanted to make sure we would not lose great candidates if we asked them to go through a runoff11:35
sabdflbut both said +111:36
sabdflthey just don't have any competition :-)11:36
elkbuntuyeah, i can see why they voted +1 now :P11:36
sabdflwell, they didn't know that they wouldn't have competition11:36
elkbuntufair point.11:36
elkbuntui guess they do now.11:37
sabdflon the IRC council front, i need to do the work and vote11:37
sabdflothers have already voted11:37
elkbuntuHobbsee, may i borrow your stick, please? :)11:37
dholbachI'll go and chase up whoever else is missing.11:37
dholbachany other business?11:37
dholbachif not, I'll write up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReport any minute11:38
Hobbseeelkbuntu: sure!11:38
* Hobbsee hands elkbuntu the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™11:38
cody-somervilleI think NickAli wanted to bring up an issue in coordinating with the IRC Team (or whoever is responsible for the channel bot) regarding the calendar integration.11:38
persiaIt mostly needs a coder assigned to build the Google Calendar parser.11:39
cody-somervilleGoogle Calendar exports ical11:39
cody-somervilleThats what we're exporting now11:39
persiaYes, but the ical module in supybot can't parse it.11:39
persiaOr rather, can't parse repeating items.11:40
dholbachOk, sounds like there's nothing for the CC to do here. :-)11:40
elkbuntudholbach, except continue rocking on, of course.11:40
dholbachThanks a lot everybody. Thanks sabdfl.11:40
dholbachelkbuntu: ROCK ON :)11:40
* elkbuntu ^5's dholbach11:41
amachudholbach, sabfdl: Thank you11:41
sabdflthanks all!11:41
sabdflsee y'all soon11:41
sabdflthanks dholbach!11:41
amachupersia, elkbuntu : thank you11:42
amachui will brief the mailing list11:42
* persia ponders the nature of noon, UTC.12:00
=== doko_ is now known as doko
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 16:00: Server Team | 18 Nov 17:00: Kernel Team | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 13:00: Desktop Team
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_away
jjesse@schedule Detroit14:29
ubottuSchedule for America/Detroit: 18 Nov 11:00: Server Team | 18 Nov 12:00: Kernel Team | 19 Nov 12:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 13:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 07:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 08:00: Desktop Team14:29
=== njpatel_away is now known as njpatel
mdzKeybuk: looks like tech board still isn't on the fridge calendar?14:57
mdzKeybuk: do you remember who was looking into that for us?14:57
Keybuknot off hand14:57
Keybukit probably fell off again14:57
Keybukthe fridge calendar doesn't do repeating events14:57
Keybukand nobody's ever fixed that14:57
mdzKeybuk: it seems hard to believe that other teams are adding their weekly meeting week after week15:00
MootBotMeeting started at 09:00. The chair is mdz.15:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:00
mdzthis is the technical board meeting for 2008-11-1815:00
mdz[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:00
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:00
Keybukmdz: the desktop meeting has fallen off again15:01
mdzthis is the first tech board meeting since I went away on holiday15:01
Keybukand I was very mean to them the last time they did that15:01
mdzdid one happen while I was away?15:01
Keybukone did not happen two weeks ago15:01
cjwatsonmdz: generally what happens when I ask them is that they add it for four weeks, just long enough for me to forget that another ping will be needed15:01
mdzok, so since the last meeting, we had a conference call with the MOTU council about upload ACLs and related issues15:02
mdzwe talked about a lot of different things, but didn't come to a clear resolution on very much15:02
mdzthere was recognition all around that ArchiveReorganisation will impact these things a great deal15:03
mdzdholbach and I took a few notes, but haven't managed to turn those into anything presentable yet15:03
mdzwe did not, so far as I noticed, actually come to a decision on any of the outstanding requests for upload ACLs15:04
mdzKeybuk: do you have a different record?15:04
KeybukI don't recall a decision being taken15:05
mdz[topic] # Limited main upload rights for Stephane Graber15:06
MootBotNew Topic:  # Limited main upload rights for Stephane Graber15:06
mdzI thought that Stephane was already a MOTU, but he wasn't yet15:07
persiastgraber has since applied to MOTU, but has yet to receive comments from half of his primary sponsors.15:07
mdzI can see that he has officially applied now15:07
Keybuksince there is a pending request for him to join MOTU, I would prefer for that to be resolved first15:07
mdzI would prefer to defer a techboard decision on this until his application has been evaluated15:07
mdzok, agreed then15:07
jjessejoin #ubuntu-server15:07
mdz[topic] Approach to ffmpeg in ubuntu, cf. siretart's email to technical-board@15:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Approach to ffmpeg in ubuntu, cf. siretart's email to technical-board@15:07
persiaNote that in his application he states he is doing so precisely because he interpreted the last TB decision to be a request he apply to MOTU.15:08
MTecknologyserver team is in one hour, right?15:08
mdzpersia: understood, please keep us informed15:08
Keybukmdz: in summary, whether to enable the h261 and h263 codecs?15:08
mdzpersia: I know this is a troublesome corner case at the moment with regard to the process, since his focus is on a package in main, but we would appreciate your help in doing the right thing15:09
cjwatsonI believe I sent mail a while back indicating I felt H.261 was OK but H.263 probably needed a legal opinion15:09
mdzKeybuk: siretart raised the general question of how we should decide what is or is not OK to ship in terms of codecs15:09
mdzwhich may or may not be claimed to infringe patents in some countries15:10
mdzthey responded with:15:10
mdzOur general policy should be that if we have some reason to believe that a15:10
mdzparticular component is likely to infringe a particular company's patent,15:10
mdzwe shouldn't distribute that component.15:10
mdzBy "likely to infringe" we mean either: (1) a patent holder has claimed15:10
mdzthat we're infringing, (2) a patent holder is suing someone else for15:10
mdzdistributing the applicable technology, or (3) a patent holder is actively15:10
mdzlicensing the applicable technology.15:11
mdzOutside that definition are (1) third party speculation of infringement15:11
mdz(e.g. community message boards), (2) general, non-targeted claims of15:11
mdzinfringement (e.g. a patent holder claiming infringement through the15:11
mdzmedia, without stating which technology infringes).15:11
mdzDisabling the potentially infringing technology is enough so long as we15:11
mdzare not enabling infringement by end users (e.g. making it possible to15:11
mdzre-enable).  Removing the potentially infringing technology would be15:11
Keybukthat sounds like a reasonable summary of our traditional position?15:11
mdzI think it's a good deal more rigorous in its definition15:12
Keybukagreed. however it doesn't change the position, no?15:12
mdzin any case, I've only just now passed that back to technical-board@ for comment15:12
cjwatsonI agree it's more rigorous, but I think it makes sense15:12
cjwatsonand is unproblematic w.r.t. suddenly having to do lots of things differently, or whatever15:12
mdzthe last bit means that disabling a feature at compile-time is sufficient15:12
mdzif it is likely to infringe15:13
Keybukthough (3), SCO, meh :p15:13
cjwatsonI think cases where the court has struck something down wouldn't need to count ;-)15:13
cjwatson(since that means they aren't the patent holder ...)15:13
mdzI think this is a reasonable starting point15:14
mdzand it leads us to a set of specific questions for each codec that siretart inquired about15:14
mdzthese aren't necessarily trivial to answer, but at least don't require an exhaustive patent search15:14
mdzanyway, this is in email for comment, and I'll follow up with siretart15:15
mdz[topic] other business15:16
MootBotNew Topic:  other business15:16
mdzany other business?15:16
KeybukI'll be unable to attend the next meeting15:17
mdzas will I15:18
MootBotMeeting finished at 09:18.15:18
persiaKeybuk, Desktop team didn't fall off: it was scheduled for a different room due to a conflict, and by request.15:18
persiamdz, Yes, the schedule has to be manually updated every time.  The bot doesn't understand the way Google presents recurrance, and the version of drupal on fridge.ubuntu.com cannot handle recurrance.15:19
Keybukpersia: ah, do meetings in other channels not go onto the fridge schedule?15:20
persiaThe bot isn't smart enough to differentiate channels.15:20
persiaThe code is available.  If you, or someone you know, knows python, and wants to hack it :)15:20
persialiw took a look a few weeks ago, and said it wasn't a trivial thing to process Google iCal.  I think this is the main focus of the bot dev team now, so per-channel is likely to be further deferred.15:22
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 17:00: Kernel Team | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 13:00: Desktop Team
MTecknologyheh - is the bot 10 minutes ahead of me?15:50
persiaThe bot tries to give each meeting 10-15 minutes leeway, when they aren't back-to-back15:52
jjesseyay i finally remembered to attend a server team meting15:55
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 17:00: Kernel Team | 18 Nov 20:00: Kubuntu Developers | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
* mathiaz waves15:59
mathiazhello everyone and welcome to another server team meeting16:00
mathiazlet's get this started!16:00
MootBotMeeting started at 10:00. The chair is mathiaz.16:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:00
zulas the world turns16:00
mathiazToday's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting16:01
mathiazanyone that wants to add a point, let me know16:01
mathiazLast meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/2008111116:02
mathiaz[TOPIC] Server FAQ16:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Server FAQ16:02
mathiaznijaba: sommer: how is this going?16:02
sommermore updates... I think just the new questions need adding16:02
* kirkland is, again, delinquent on his server FAQ update :-/16:03
* nijaba has been buried...16:03
* mathiaz will update the roadmap too16:03
mathiazsommer: great.16:03
mathiazsommer: I thought nijaba had added a list of new questions?16:03
mathiazsommer: are there other questions you thought about?16:04
sommermathiaz: yes, they just need to be answered :)16:04
nijabaI think sommer says that the new questions now needs answers16:04
mathiazoh - ok.16:04
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to add a section about updating the ServerFAQ to the Roadmap16:04
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to add a section about updating the ServerFAQ to the Roadmap16:04
mathiaz[ACTION] kirkland to review the RAID related questions16:05
MootBotACTION received:  kirkland to review the RAID related questions16:05
mathiazsommer: nijaba: anything else?16:05
mathiaz[TOPIC] Get rid of old libdb versions16:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Get rid of old libdb versions16:05
sommermathiaz: don't think so16:05
mathiazzul: ^^?16:05
zulmathiaz: roadmap has been updated16:05
mathiazzul: I think you've gone through the list16:06
zulthe ones there have to be updated16:06
mathiazsommer: nijaba: thanks for updating the FAQ16:06
mathiazzul: ok - great.16:06
sommermathiaz: np16:07
mathiaz[TOPIC] Update ServerGuide for Jaunty16:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Update ServerGuide for Jaunty16:08
mathiazsommer: how is the spec going on?16:08
jjessesommer: i can help out with the server guide again16:08
sommermathiaz: it's started, and I created a blueprint as well16:08
jjessesommer: do you have a link for the spec so i can subscribe?16:08
sommerjjesse: that'd be awesome :)16:08
sommerif there are any other sections that anyone can think of feel free to add them, to the spec or the idea pool16:10
mathiazsommer: looks promising.16:10
mathiazsommer: spliting in its own package -> may be worth looking into a bzr branch16:10
mathiazsommer: but that may require some coordination with the documentation team regarding the tool chain to build the documentation.16:11
sommermathiaz: sure, I can contact mdke about it16:12
sommeror anyone else who's familiar with the process :)16:12
mathiazsommer: what's the rationale to split the server guide into its own package?16:12
jjessesommer: nixternal would be familiar with it as well and oculd help out, he builds the kubuntu-docs package16:12
mathiazsommer: I guess by package you meant source package16:12
mathiazsommer: as it already has its own binary package16:13
sommermathiaz: ya, wasn't it discussed for intrepid... to ease contribution16:13
mathiazsommer: exact.16:14
mathiazsommer: but the bzr branch for the ubuntu-doc team was trimmed down during the intrepid release cycle.16:14
mathiazsommer: it's faster to create a branch now.16:14
mathiazsommer: anyhow, I'll ask the doc team about it.16:15
mathiazsommer: I'd come up with a reason for the source package split.16:15
mathiazsommer: there may be good reason to keep it in the ubuntu-doc package.16:15
mathiazsommer: I'm thinking about translations.16:15
sommermathiaz: sounds good to me16:16
mathiazsommer: but I'm not too familiar with this process.16:16
mathiazsommer: could you start a dicussion on the ubuntu-doc mailing list?16:16
sommermathiaz: sure16:16
mathiazsommer: awesome. Thanks!16:16
mathiaz[ACTION] sommer to start a disucssion with the documentation team about creating a separate source package and bzr branch for the server guide16:17
MootBotACTION received:  sommer to start a disucssion with the documentation team about creating a separate source package and bzr branch for the server guide16:17
mathiazsommer: anything else related to documentation?16:17
sommermathiaz: I think that's it16:17
mathiaz[TOPIC] Merges and init script16:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Merges and init script16:18
mathiazkirkland: ^^16:18
kirklandi still need to update that wiki page16:18
kirklandi'll do that this week16:18
kirklandwith the current state of Jaunty init/status scripts16:18
mathiazkirkland: ok.16:18
kirklandcheers to Koon who's adding them in his package merges16:18
kirklandthat's all i have16:19
mathiazgreat. Let's move on.16:19
mathiaz[TOPIC] Ubuntu Server survey16:19
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Server survey16:19
mathiaznijaba: ^?16:19
Koonmergers should also push TearDown where appropriate16:19
mathiazKoon: by push you mean that the TearDown changes should be send to Debian?16:20
nijabamathiaz: I have made an extract of the data.  I now need to remove all private info from it16:20
mathiaznijaba: cool. What the final stats?16:20
mathiaznijaba: cool. What are the final stats?16:20
nijabaSome people within Canonical think we should let the survey run a couple more month16:20
Koonno, I meant implement TearDown spec in the merge if it's not done yet -- if you do it, then you should also push it to Debian.16:20
MTecknologynijaba: where's the survey at?16:20
nijabathey want to adwvertise it on u.c home page16:21
nijabaMTecknology: to take it?  survey.ubuntu.com16:21
mathiazKoon: so Debian accepted the technical implementation of the TearDown spec?16:21
MTecknologycrap... i forgot how to do math :P16:21
mathiaznijaba: once you've got the anonymized data, what's the process to get access to it?16:22
Koonmathiaz: james_w discussed it on debian-devel, without any real opposition16:22
nijabastat are 6844 responses for this survey (4144 full responses, 2700 responses not completely filled out)16:22
mathiaznijaba: once you've got the anonymized data, what's the process to get access to it?16:23
nijabamathiaz: I think I'll just put the csv in bzr16:24
nijabaas I did for the question16:24
mathiaznijaba: IIRC we discussed who would get access to it16:24
nijabaso that people running analysis on it can publish back results16:24
mathiaznijaba: is this still relevant or you wanna have an open policy about it?16:25
nijabawell, I think having a private team for the analysis would be more appropriate16:25
nijababut I am not sure how we can set on up in Launchpad16:25
mathiaznijaba: ok. Let's discuss this later.16:26
mathiazThat's all for last week's minutes.16:27
mathiazAnything else to add related to last week's minutes?16:27
mathiazseems not. Let's move on.16:28
mathiaz[TOPIC] Jaunty specs16:28
MootBotNew Topic:  Jaunty specs16:28
MTecknologyhey... The survey - there's no 8.10 option16:29
mathiazso we're all getting prepared for UDS and started to write up spec for it.16:29
nijabaMTecknology: indeed, it was launched before the release of intrepid16:30
jjessei noticed there are hardly any specs targeted for jaunty yet16:30
* kirkland has a few specs already16:30
* nijaba too16:30
kirklandthere's a growing number there16:31
jjessewow changed from earlier this week16:31
* nxvl hasn't write anything :(16:31
nxvli should write the augeas spec16:31
* kirkland added: 1) encrypted-home-directory, 2) encrypted-swap-by-default, 3) power-capping, 4) server-suspend-hibernate16:31
mathiazright - so if you register a new blueprint, target it for Jaunty so that it's considered for the next UDS16:32
nxvlkirkland: and what happend with file swap?16:32
mathiazand also subscribe the ubuntu-server team so that we can track which specs may be or interest to the server team community.16:32
kirklandnxvl: that one is still there, from last UDS16:32
kirklandnxvl: encrypted swap is more important to me, for now though16:32
sommermathiaz: should we set the approver to dendrobates as well?16:33
mathiazsommer: yes.16:33
sommercool, thought I'd double check16:33
MTecknologygtg - sorry to cut it short here16:34
nxvlkirkland: fair enough16:34
MTecknologyfyi - When I encrypt any part of a syste, I just make an encrypted partition, put lvm on it, and then put /, swap, and /home on it16:34
MTecknologyjust wanted to throw it out there - ttyal16:35
mathiazok - that's all for the specs for the next UDS16:35
mathiazdump your ideas on a wiki page, register a blueprint and subscribe the ubuntu-server team to it16:36
mathiazso that we're all notified and can give feedback16:36
mathiaz[TOPIC] Merges16:36
MootBotNew Topic:  Merges16:36
mathiazMerging is in full swing now.16:37
mathiazI've published a list of easy merges and put it on the Roadmpa.16:37
KoonI did pure-ftpd, I'll update the list.16:37
mathiazI'll try to keep it up-to-date on a weekly basis.16:37
mathiazKoon: awesome!16:37
mathiazIf someone does one of them, updating the wiki page is welcome16:38
mathiaz[TOPIC] Open discussio16:40
MootBotNew Topic:  Open discussio16:40
mathiazAnyone wants to add anything?16:40
mathiaznow is the time16:40
sommeris a "ubuntu directory server" still in the works for jaunty16:41
nijabasommer: that's one of the proposals we have, yes16:41
sommeror worked on for jaunty... now that cn=config has been implemented16:41
mathiazsommer: yes. That's the next step.16:41
sommerokay, I was just thinking about it the other day16:42
mathiazsommer: There isn't a specific blueprint for now.16:43
mathiazsommer: you may wanna keep your ideas written somewhere.16:43
cjwatsonI'm working on getting the GTK installer frontend up and running at the moment16:43
cjwatsonso there should be plenty of time for interested folks to play with that pre-UDS16:43
cjwatsonit's been in Debian for quite a while; I only recently heard that we actually wanted it in Ubuntu though16:44
sommercjwatson: cool, do you have a link to the code?16:44
kirklandcjwatson: cool, we took a look at it last week16:44
nijabacjwatson: \o/16:44
cjwatsonsommer: archive.ubuntu.com16:44
cjwatsonsommer: nothing new, it's all been there for some time, this is just the assembly16:44
sommerah gotcha16:45
sommerthat's all I had :)16:46
mathiazok. great.16:47
mathiazanything else?16:48
mathiaz[TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time16:52
MootBotNew Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time16:52
mathiazsame time, same place, next week?16:52
Koonsure thing.16:53
mathiazgreat. See you all next week, same time, same place.16:54
mathiazAnd happy merging until then!16:54
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:54.16:54
sommerthanks mathiaz, later all16:54
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 20:00: Kubuntu Developers | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
pgranerIts time for the Kernel Team Meeting....17:01
MootBotMeeting started at 11:01. The chair is pgraner.17:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:01
* smb_tp arrives17:01
* apw is here17:01
* cking is here17:02
pgraner[TOPIC] Welcome Andy Whitcroft to the Kernel Team!17:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Welcome Andy Whitcroft to the Kernel Team!17:02
* apw waves17:02
pgranerAndy joined us a few weeks ago and is formerly from IBM working on the kernel.17:02
pgranerapw: Welcome, glad to have you aboard!17:02
apwthanks, its gonna be fun17:02
pgranerapw: don't worry rtg will snuf the life out of ya!17:03
liebhey we survived pdx17:03
pgraner[TOPIC] Status of Intrepid Security & bugfix kernels17:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Status of Intrepid Security & bugfix kernels17:03
* rtg suffers from obsessive compulsive behaviors17:04
pgranersmb_tp: can you tell us where we sit and when we can expect kernels to -proposed?17:04
BenCrtg: OCD is a powerful tool in the right hands17:04
smb_tpdapper, gutsy security sit in repo, needing builds. hardy is almost done17:04
rtgwhich is why I employ it :)17:04
pgranersmb_tp: ETA?17:04
smb_tp-proposed for hardy has been newed today17:04
smb_tpI'd say start of next-week latest17:05
pgranersmb_tp: any Intrepid goodness in the pipe?17:05
smb_tppgraner, rtg is on that17:05
pgranerrtg: ^^^^^^^^^^^?17:05
rtgWorking on Intrepid security kernel 2.6.27-10.19 (yes - it is an ABI bump)17:06
rtgwill give to kees later today.17:06
rtgUpdating Intrepid with stable updates, about to incorporate as soon as its released).17:06
rtgthat'll also be an ABI bump.17:06
pgranerrtg: what caused the bump?17:06
rtgnetworking stuff17:06
smb_tppgraner, muddled with task struct17:06
rtgum, skb structure change methinks.17:07
pgranerrtg: ok, how long is that going to bake in -proposed17:07
rtguntil a few weeks before ther point release in January.17:07
rtgso, late December?17:07
pgranerrtg: Ok, we need to let krafty know so he can inform partners, I'll talk to him to find out how we need to go about notifying him.17:08
pgranerrtg: did you post to kernel-team & installer-team?17:08
rtgno, since I haven't done the upload.17:09
smb_tppgraner, For hardy I got a nice little update to in the pipe (~130 patches) which I try to address as soon as -security is up17:09
pgranersmb_tp: wow thats big... what are some of the highlights?17:09
pgranerrtg: ack17:09
rtgpgraner: I've been bugging smb_tp incorporate the stable patches.17:10
smb_tppgraner, I have to compile that. I first tackled just the manual catch up to the -stable git repo and make it compile17:10
pgranersmb_tp: would be nice to get a summary to the mailing list17:10
smb_tppgraner, A sure must. I have to get some feedback from the RT folks since their patchset broke and I want some feedback I fixed it correctly17:11
* pgraner nods17:11
pgraneranything else on this topic?17:12
BenCsmb_tp: if you want, I can take a look at your -rt changes...are they on kernel-team@?17:12
apwwho you talking to in the -rt team?17:13
smb_tpBenC, Not yet. I got a tree on kernel.ubuntu.com/smb/ubuntu-hardy-git (stable)17:13
pgraner[TOPIC] Jaunty Status17:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Jaunty Status17:14
smb_tpapw, There is someone in the community I forgot.17:14
BenCpgraner: ubuntu-jaunty raw rebase was just pushed to zinc17:14
BenCpgraner: I'm doing a cleanup rebase right now, and should have that done by COB17:15
rtgwhats the diff between a raw and clean rebase?17:15
BenCpgraner: That will give me tomorrow to do configs and start test builds, and hopefully have an upload friday17:16
pgranerBenC: what are we carrying out of tree as of today17:16
BenCrtg: raw rebase was "clone intrepid, rebase to linux-2.6; push"17:16
BenCrtg: cleanup will involve squashing debian/* changes to a single commit, re-ordering commits, etc.17:16
BenCpgraner: I wont have a clear picture of that until I cleanup the rebase17:16
BenCI do know that as of right now, no commits were dropped (other than obvious cherry picks that were obsoleted)17:17
amitkBenC: will you take care of upstreaming any required patches too?17:17
rtgBenC: make sure you drop ubuntu/e1000e17:17
pgranerBenC: prior to dropping anything I'd like to see it discussing on kernel-team, with a list of what we are keeping, dropping and adding17:17
BenCpgraner: the 4-5 commits that were dropped were cherry picks from the 2.6.27.y tree that were verified to be in 2.6.28 upstream17:17
BenCnothing else was dropped17:18
pgranerBenC: with rational as to why in each case17:18
rtgwe also need to drop some macair stuff sicne its upstream17:18
pgranerBenC: understood, I'd like to have it as record on the list. I'm consistently asked about patches and why they were dropped and if they are on list we have a public record with rationale17:19
BenCafter the rebase we'll be able to more easily go through the ubuntu/ directory and sauce patches17:19
BenCpgraner: the ones I dropped were explicitely marked as cherry picks from .y and were not sauce patches17:19
BenCpgraner: anything else during the cleanup rebase, I'll post to kernel-team@17:20
rtgand .y patches _must_ come from upstream.17:20
pgranerBenC: great17:20
BenCI'll summarize ubuntu/* and sauce patches to kernel-team@ when done17:20
pgraner[ACTION] BenC to discuss sauce patch & patch status on kernel-team17:20
MootBotACTION received:  BenC to discuss sauce patch & patch status on kernel-team17:20
pgraner[TOPIC] ARM Tree17:21
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Tree17:21
amitkI uploaded an intrepid-based kernel to jaunty today. Mainly required to enable armel.17:21
pgraneramitk: go for it!17:21
amitkso jaunty has a 2.6.27 based kernel from intrepid with armel arch enabled17:22
amitk4 flavours intitially - iop32x, versatile, ixp4xx and orion5x17:22
amitki see atleast 2-3 more flavours being added17:22
rtggonna be an ugly build.17:23
amitkmaybe not17:23
amitkit took 3 hours for the 4 flavours17:23
amitkso I would guess 6hrs for 3 more added. Anyone know how much hppa takes?17:23
rtgits a slow build.17:24
amitkone issue that was raised by doko was to move linux-libc-dev to its own source package17:24
BenCamitk: horific17:24
amitksince I don't have the history, I promised him I'll bring it up here17:24
BenCamitk: why move it?17:24
amitkand _that_ ^ was the history I was missing :)17:25
BenCamitk: it used to be it's own, but it was near impossible to keep it in sync with the kernel17:25
amitkBenC: they want is quicker, not having to wait for kernels to build I guess17:25
BenCamitk: Once it's in there, rebuilding against it often isn't important17:26
BenCamitk: unless there's some huge userspace abi issue that needs to be handled by a total repo rebuild, in which case rebuilding the kernel is trivial compared to it17:26
amitkok. I guess we can take that offline17:26
pgraneramitk: we will be running the ARM tree in the kernel tree with input from the other teams. To answer your question from earlier17:26
cjwatsonI don't see that the initial bootstrap issue with linux-libc-dev is all that much of a problem, TBH17:27
cjwatsonif that's all that it is, I don't see a huge benefit17:27
cjwatsonjust means we need to remember to coordinate with the kernel team for new bootstraps (which obviously we have to anyway, just a bit earlier)17:27
pgraneramitk: anything else on armel?17:28
amitkI'll port the armel configs to BenC new 2.6.28-based tree later today17:28
amitkso with the next upload everything should be as expected17:29
amitkover and out17:29
pgraner[TOPIC] Open discussion17:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Open discussion17:30
BenCamitk: would be better to just send them to me, since my next push will be forced and overwrite it17:30
amitkBenC: I'll send them to kernel-team ML then17:30
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 20:00: Kubuntu Developers | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 13:00: Desktop Team
BenCamitk: good deal17:30
pgranerAnyone have any topics/issues etc... to bring up?17:31
apwnothing here17:31
rtgOther then the Intrepid security work that I've already discussed, I've been17:32
rtgdoing new kernel dev orientation in Portland and Keeping pace with compat-wireless.17:32
rtgLots 'o fixes in the wireless subsystems.17:32
BenCpgraner: what are we doing about UDS planning?17:32
pgranerBenC: Look for something tomorrow on list. I'm almost done with the draft schedule and agenda we can then hash it out on list and go final17:33
BenCpgraner: ack17:34
* BenC has to cut out early to get sick kid from school17:34
pgranerBenC: ack17:34
pgranerOk, I guess we'll move on to roundtable.17:34
pgraner[TOPIC] Roundtable17:35
MootBotNew Topic:  Roundtable17:35
* apw wonders what one of those is17:35
pgranerLooks like rtg has already talked about his bits, so BenC is out so amitk whats up other than what we've discussed?17:36
smb_tpapw, One without corners?17:36
amitkapw: the new guy tells a joke\17:36
* rtg has already blurted all his round table topics.17:36
amitknothing else on my side17:36
pgranersmb_tp: anything for you?17:36
smb_tppgraner, Not very much to add. Only two SRUs for intrepid (uvcvideo and iscsitarget). Second is already waiting for ACK-love first I have to come up with17:37
pgranersmb_tp: Ok...17:37
pgranercking: what say you?17:37
pgranercking: take your keyboard off mute :)17:38
cking..finishing off one lot of OEM work (an audio driver fix and video suspend/resume fix) and looking at another OEM device17:38
pgranercking: sounds like joy17:38
ckinghardware nerdvana17:38
ckingthat's about it..17:39
pgranerlieb: anything to say?17:39
liebI've put the bug process notes into a wiki page and it almost makes sense to me now.  I'll publish this week for review/correction.17:39
pgranerlieb: great17:39
liebI've been asked to backport the ecryptfs patch to hardy does it bo back that far??17:39
pgranerlieb: it should, have you talked to kirkland? he's doing the userspace side17:40
apwthere is an ecryptfs in hardy17:40
liebalso, should we expand the discussion of the vt issues to uds?17:40
rtglieb: I think there was a lot of change in ecryptfs from .24 to .2717:41
pgranerlieb: VT is on the agenda17:41
liebpgraner: not yet17:41
kirklandpgraner: lieb: there's a page alignment issue in ecryptfs in Intrepid17:41
liebwhich the patch applies to17:41
pgranerkirkland: thanks for dropping in17:41
kirklandpgraner: lieb: mhalcrow (kernel maintainer of ecryptfs) has a fix, attached to that bug17:41
rtgkirkland: that one is in the pipeline17:41
kirklandrtg: ah, good, you're top of it?17:41
rtglieb is17:41
liebmore or less17:41
rtgneeds ACK love17:42
* kirkland catches up ...17:42
rtgas smb would put it :)17:42
smb_tprtg, Yeah17:42
kirklandso as far as backporting to Hardy ...  I'm kinda hoping no one is running ecryptfs on hardy :-)17:42
apwdo we have any of the sexy userspace enablement back there?17:42
liebso don't backport?17:42
rtgkirkland: well, except for me. I use it daily.17:42
kirklandrtg: really?17:43
kirklandapw: nothing automated, just manual mount stuff17:43
pgranerkirkland: rtg loves living on the edge17:43
kirklandpgraner: nice.17:43
rtgI guess I've not encountered the failure scenarios.17:43
apwjust over the edge by my calculations17:43
kirklandrtg: okay, then, yes, i suspect that patch needs backporting to Hardy17:43
kirklandrtg: that particular problem has only been reproduced on older AMD hardware (pre-athlon era)17:43
* kirkland has no such hardware17:44
apwdo we know the trigger?17:44
rtglemme rephrase, I used it daily until upgrading to Intrepid.17:44
kirklandapw: the report was just copying a directory tree using Nautilus17:44
kirklandapw: i can't image Nautilus has *anything* to do with it17:44
rtgkirkland: I may have a pre-Athlon. lemme check.17:44
kirklandi'd expect similar behavior from cp/rsync/mv17:45
liebso I do it, right?17:45
kirklandnothing extravagant in the copy... he said like 100 files, 17MB or so17:45
pgranerlieb: yep17:45
kirklandi copied 4 gigs, 75,000 files without reproducing the problem on my core2 duo17:45
rtglieb: I'll ACK on the mailing list once I wrap my head around it.17:46
liebthen I'm done ;)17:46
pgranerapw: your turn...17:46
kirklandpgraner: is that all you need from me?17:46
pgranerkirkland: yep17:46
apwhmmm i thought that you could only trigger this is slub debugging turned on17:46
pgranerkirkland: thanks17:46
kirklandcheers ;-)17:46
rtgapw: which is likely why I never saw it.17:46
apwbeen working on a few bugs here and there, a couple of SRU's up for review now17:46
kirklandapw: slub was a separate issue (i think)17:46
apwand have another out for testing int he community17:47
apweverything ticking along ok17:47
pgranerapw: great.17:47
pgranerthen I guess thats a wrap. Don't forget Canonical folks we have our call immediately following this meeting17:47
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:48.17:48
rtgpgraner: immediately, ot in 8 minutes?17:48
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Nov 20:00: Kubuntu Developers | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 13:00: Desktop Team | 21 Nov 20:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 13:00: Desktop Team | 21 Nov 20:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC
jjessedid i miss the kubuntu meeting?19:56
Riddelljjesse: 5 mins19:56
Riddellgood evening friends20:01
Riddellwho's all here for a kubuntu meeting?20:01
* Nightrose waves20:01
* JontheEchidna waves20:01
* claydoh_ raises hand20:01
* genii waves20:01
=== claydoh_ is now known as claydoh
* Archdevil comes to listen20:02
Riddellwe've got an agenda at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings20:02
* ^seelenn^ \o/20:02
Riddelllet's start with memberships20:02
seeleshould we do memberships first?20:02
RiddellArby wants to be one of us20:02
seeleArby: are you sure about that?20:02
apacheloggerwiki: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RichardBirnie LP: https://launchpad.net/~rbirnie20:02
Arbyseele I'm in too deep to get out20:03
JontheEchidnaOk, most of us thought we already *was* a member. This is a no-brainer20:03
RiddellArby: want to give us a couple of senences about what you do and why you like Kubuntu>20:03
ArbyI'm a biologist for a living20:03
seele+1 for cancer research20:03
ArbyI persuaded my company that I needed a linux box to be able work effectively for R usage20:04
Arbyconverted my home machines at the end of the breezy cycle20:04
Arbybeen a kde user ever since20:04
Arbyand wouldn't go back20:04
Arbymy first ever linux box was a gentoo system20:04
Arbyand we don't talk about thta20:05
RiddellArby: how has the KDE 4 jump been for you?20:05
ArbyNot too bad actually.20:05
seeleArby: do you know about any of the caGRID or caBIG projects?  they're open source tech developed by the National Cancer Institute20:05
=== RainCT_ is now known as RainCT
Arbymost of the apps I use regularly were ported early20:05
apacheloggerArby: do you expect to become a motu in the future?20:05
NightroseArby: what do you like most and least about kubuntu or kde4 (your pick)20:05
* hibana listening in20:05
Arbyseele: I've heard of them, not used them20:05
Arbyapachelogger: yes, eventually20:06
ArbyNightrose: krunner actually became usable for me in kde420:06
Arbybecause it predicts what I want from it20:06
Arbythat rocks20:06
seeleArby: will you be able to continue work on system-config-printer-kde (I actually didn't know you were working on this..)20:06
apacheloggerNightrose: you know, if he picks something bad about kde4 I will have to poke him in the eye, ear and nose? that question is uber awful :P20:07
Nightroseapachelogger: nah i will keep you from doing that :P20:07
Nightroseno worries20:07
Arbyseele: I intend to, I was trying to get something working in place before I bug you20:07
* james_w waves20:07
Arbydid I miss any in there?20:07
apacheloggerNightrose: I have been training my skills, I can now raise shields in less than a second :P20:07
* apachelogger waves to james_w20:08
Nightrosedamn - that is fast20:08
Arbysomething bad about kde4 hmm...20:08
NightroseArby: yea - what you like lest about kde4/kubuntu ;-)20:08
* NCommander arrives late :-/20:08
Arbykmail is a pain to set up with gmail/imap but that's probably google's fault20:08
Nightrosefair enough20:09
Nightrose+1 from me - biologists rock ;-)20:09
apacheloggerI guess we can improve that with akonadi ... creating new connection thingies is fairly easy from what I saw20:09
Riddell+1 from me for being around for ages and doing CD testing and now s-c-p-k love20:09
* Tm_T hides20:09
JontheEchidnacheers from me for rocking at KDE packaging20:09
seele+1 for cancer research and printer-config coding20:10
rgreening+1 here... I love Arby's.... mmmm20:10
apacheloggerArby: welcome to the family20:10
Tm_Tsorry I'm bit late20:10
seelehmm.. no yuriy and nixternal?20:10
Riddellcongratulations Arby20:10
Arbythanks folks20:10
Nightrosewelcome Arby :)20:10
apacheloggerseele: they didn't want to come for some reason20:10
claydoh+1 for all the above reasons20:10
Riddellapachelogger: carry on /me brb20:10
seelesheesh, slackers :)20:10
Riddelltxwikinger: isn't here go on with the agenda20:10
apacheloggerI am proposing that we switch all KDE core packages to bzr based packaging (i.e. version control the debian directory)20:11
nixternalbah, sorry20:11
nixternalcongrats, +1 :)20:11
nixternalI have to go on site so I have to leave...go figure20:11
apacheloggerthat way we can increase collaboration and decrease the amount of uploads we do20:12
apacheloggerthis makes most sense for the core packages because they usually contain a lot of applications and some of the uploads we do are really not important enough to be done20:12
* JontheEchidna nods20:13
rgreeningapachelogger: will this make debian syncs/merges easier or no impact?20:13
apacheloggerso instead of uploading minor changes right away to the archive (consuming build time and space and version number and bandwith and what not) we would commit to the bzr branch and every once in a while a core dev pushes the changes20:13
apacheloggerrgreening: it will once the general ubuntu setup is available for that20:13
claydohany negatives?20:13
apacheloggerjames_w might want to tell us about the future plans for bzr based development20:13
rgreeningapachelogger: k. that gets my vote20:13
james_wthanks apachelogger20:13
Nightroseapachelogger: drawbacks (for those unworthy and unknowing people like me)20:14
Nightroseadd a ? somewhere there20:14
james_wwe're moving to make this available to everyone for every package in the archive, regardless of whether anyone actually uses bzr for that package20:14
apacheloggerNightrose: ^ that answers the question I guess ;-)20:14
james_wthat means that it doesn't matter if the package is uploaded outside of bzr, nothing will be lost, and it will be a usually small bit of work to re-sync things (like 1 command)20:15
smarteroh, I missed the beginning20:16
james_wso I think it is great that you are considering it20:16
smarteranyway, +1 on bzr packaging (for some exemples,20:16
apacheloggersmarter: you are biased :P20:16
smartersee my packages: https://code.launchpad.net/~smarter )20:16
james_wapachelogger: you said "version control the debian directory"?20:16
smarterversion control on the source is pretty much useless20:17
geniiIs the bzr method a way also to make a move from LP ?20:17
Tm_Tas all changes should be in debian dir20:17
apacheloggerjames_w: packaging-only, draging the sources around in the branch would be rather awful for core KDE20:17
smarterand mess diffs20:17
smarterand merges20:17
apacheloggermost of source packages are >10 MiB, compressed that is20:18
james_wbut version controlling ./debian/ is also not very nice20:18
apacheloggerjames_w: how so?20:18
james_wfor instance, where you have ./debian/patches/ you don't get bzr's ability to merge20:18
james_wwell, if the patches are modified you do, but it normally doesn't do what you want20:18
* smarter doesn't understand20:19
smarterrefresh the patch? see if they were applied upstream?N20:19
james_wyes, but you get that for free if you do full source branches with no ./debian/20:19
apacheloggerthat would however increase the diff from debian if debian uses debian/patches, wouldn't it?20:20
james_wit is obviously more data to carry around, and conflicts with some ideas of what good packaging is, but it does bring you some benefits20:20
james_wapachelogger: yes, it would.20:20
smarterchanges outside debian/? IMHO this is just bad20:21
james_wapachelogger: it would be possible to do some conversions to make that almost invisible, but that's not implemented yet20:21
yuriyhi. woops, translated the time wrong. I should be used to this by now.20:21
smarterquilt refreshes patches, and seeing if a patch has been applied upstream isn't that hard, (patch tells you)20:21
apacheloggersmarter: only half bad if you have it in a VCS20:21
smarterstill feels bad :p20:21
smarterand does not work with http://patches.ubuntu.com20:22
apacheloggerjames_w: I think we can rule out full source branches for core KDE20:22
smarterso more work for upstream/other distros if they want to pick patches20:22
apacheloggerjames_w: KDE is not as fine splitted as GNOME source wise, you have big meta packages like kdebase-workspace which essentially carrys everything that is needed for a sensible workspace20:23
Tm_TI'd say no for full source branches20:23
apachelogger92 MiB uncompressed source20:23
* smarter will continue to use debian/-only branching for his not so core KDE packages :p20:23
apacheloggerjames_w: from what I know there were earlier tries to keep full source branches of some KDE packages, which essentially made everyone think that bzr is awfully slow, which doesn't surprise me considering the amount of data carried around20:24
james_wtrue, that is being worked on20:25
apacheloggerok, we should consider this at a later time then20:25
Tm_TI'm not sure if having full source branches have any real benefits right now20:26
apacheloggerfor now trying to get packaging under version control should be a good target20:26
Tm_Tapachelogger: I agree on that20:26
james_win a few months there will be branches to play with, proper launchpad hosting for them, faster bzr, tools to make the work easier, and ways to replace e.g. patches.ubuntu.com20:26
apacheloggersounds awesome :)20:26
james_wand the infrastructure to do it our way even if you disagree :-p20:27
apacheloggerany questions?20:27
apacheloggeror comments for that matter20:27
JontheEchidnaI think getting packaging under vcs and considering everything else later sounds good20:28
james_wthere hasn't been much information about what we are up to yet, but that should change real soon20:28
apacheloggerjames_w: we would all be very eager to give feedback I guess20:28
Tm_Tjames_w: any way to have full source branches with real benefits WITHOUT breaking sensible compatibility with Debian and other distributions aswell?20:29
* rgreening nods20:29
james_wTm_T: in theory, I'll be working on the practice at some point20:30
smarteralso, we need a proper howto on using bzr for packaging, all Kubuntu devs don't know how to use it20:30
smarterI started one sometimes ago but never completed it20:30
Tm_Tjames_w: ok, that sounds good20:30
rgreeningagreed smarter20:30
james_wanyone that wants to discuss that sort of thing is encouraged to head over to vcs-pkg.org20:30
apacheloggersmarter: we should create a batscript for that ;-)20:30
smartermaybe we could create a wiki page out of the session on bzr packaging from one of the openweek?20:30
james_wfor details on what we are up to in Ubuntu you can visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment20:31
Tm_Tsmarter: sure!20:31
james_wand notice the first link on that page :-)20:31
apacheloggersmarter: I guess that first link resolves the documentation issue? ;-)20:32
smarterooh, shiny20:32
smarterbut a bit too splitted for my taste :p20:32
apacheloggeryou people and your /Complete pages :P20:33
james_wthat's easily fixable with some moin includes20:33
JontheEchidnayou have been infected by the monolithic KDE :P20:33
JontheEchidnayou can never escape20:33
apacheloggeroh dear, there we go ago20:33
apacheloggeragain even20:33
smarteralso, bzr builddeb should be explained in more details imho, I'll try to add some stuff20:33
Tm_Tapachelogger: son, you're not making much sense, are you?20:34
apacheloggeranyway, I think we can drag the topic to the mailing list and do the final discussion there20:34
apacheloggerhopefully seeing our packaging in bzr really soon20:34
james_wapachelogger: please Cc me on that20:34
apacheloggerjames_w: thank you for taking time :)20:34
Tm_Tjames_w: thanks (:20:34
james_wthanks for inviting me :-)20:34
Riddellthanks for coming james_w20:35
* Riddell back from crisis20:35
james_wsmarter: file:///usr/share/doc/bzr-builddeb/user_manual/ should be a start20:35
* apachelogger thinks Riddell should talk about the crisis before continuing20:35
rgreeningdino crisis20:35
Riddellapachelogger: girl stuff, hand wave20:35
apachelogger*scratching head*20:35
jjessedino crisis?20:35
apacheloggerryanakca: ping20:36
JontheEchidna"if you're having girl trouble I feel bad for you, son..."20:36
Riddellso we agreed to continue bzr on mailing list?20:36
apacheloggergenerally good feeling about it20:36
ryanakcaapachelogger: pong, Mind skipping to the next item and comming back? I could give a screenshot.. but a public page would be nicer, no?20:36
smarterjames_w: yup, it's great but not advertised a lot20:36
^seelenn^JontheEchidna: Nice bit of Jay-Z there!20:36
ryanakcaapachelogger: or I can just stick a screenie under my public_html... either or...20:36
apacheloggerryanakca: nah, do it properly20:37
JontheEchidnaI spits hot fire!20:37
apacheloggeror send it to me, I can upload20:37
apacheloggerRiddell: please continue with UDS topics20:37
seeleoh, this will take a while20:37
RiddellI tidied up this page https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs20:37
seeledo we have any volunteers for writing specs?20:37
seeleHobbsee was pinging about it last night20:38
Riddellregistering i what needs done20:38
Riddellso question is, are those five specs sensible ones to register and have time slots allocated20:38
Riddellto some extent they all merge into each other and the outcomes (i.e. what specs we write) can be flexible20:39
jjessei would attend those20:39
Riddells/would/will/ :)20:39
apacheloggerthey all look very sensible to me20:39
JontheEchidnaI think kpackagekit has it's own notification system20:40
Riddellthere's also been discussion among the platform team about having more QA time this cycle20:40
Riddellbut I don't think we need a spec about that, we just try and follow the general Ubuntu plan for that20:40
JontheEchidnabut I guess details on specs can be worked out later20:40
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: that is what UDS is for :)20:41
smarterone important thing: our python apps seem to be undertested with locales != english20:41
smarterlots of pyqt/pykde apps crashes because of accents in the l10nized strings20:41
Arbywhat about something on translations?20:41
smarterI'll try to test them more often20:42
smarterbut automated testing would be good20:42
rgreeningI believe there is a ubuntu rosetta spec20:42
Arbythat would be good20:42
Riddellpoking rosetta people would be good20:42
apacheloggerRiddell: I don't think we need a spec for the on-going problems?20:42
yuriythose sound good20:42
apacheloggerScott wanted to do quite some discussion about that20:42
Tm_Toff ->20:42
yuriymaybe also discuss applications with upcoming KDE4 versions? (k3b, amarok, digikam)20:43
apacheloggerTm_T: cya20:43
seeleFile sharing might be a spec in itself.. nothing really got done since the last time it was talked about in Prague20:43
smarterhmm, what's Kdpkg?20:43
Riddellthe rosetta problems are launchpad issues, nothing we can spec, but certainly talk to the rosetta people20:43
Riddellyuriy: yes, care to add that to the first spec on that page?20:43
apacheloggerRiddell: also the networkmanager and bluetooth breakage20:43
Riddellseele: we have the spec from last time for it20:43
seeleSetup and Gap Analysis look like the same thing20:44
seeleRiddell: that gets carried over?20:44
rgreeningRiddell: how long are the sessions typically?20:44
seelehmm.. should we have a separate KDE 4.2 discussion?20:44
Arbyre: adept vs kpackagekit, isn't that going to be heavily dependent on what kde do?20:44
apacheloggerwhat's there to discuss? ;-)20:44
jjesseas in do we want kde 4.2 or not?20:44
seelergreening: ~1 hour with multiple extensions throughout the week20:45
vorianits like gdebi-instsll, smarter20:45
RiddellArby: yes, there's a kpackagekit guy at fosscamp I'll get to talk to20:45
smarterwhat's wrong with gdebi?20:45
apacheloggerseele: most of the items in setup read like improving existing stuff, gap analysis more like adding new stuff20:45
seelejjesse: i expect we will, but who knows what it will look like20:45
persiaRegarding rosetta, it may also be interesting for UDS attendees to try to attend https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/smooth-rosetta-imports20:45
seelealpha is supposed to be out rsn20:45
Arbypackagekit seems to be flavour of the month, has anybody actually used it?20:45
apacheloggerbeta actually20:45
seeleah, even better20:46
rgreeningI assume that some of these specs will result in additional (fine-tuned and specific) specs to track individual items to complete.20:46
apacheloggerseele: if KDE continues like that there isn't going to be a major release we don't want to have20:46
seeleapachelogger: sure as long as there isn't new stuff that only sortof works20:46
apachelogger4.2 comes with akonadi for pim, which is super uber master unbelivable important20:46
Riddellseele: the first spec on that page is intended to be 4.2 discussion20:46
apacheloggeralso policykit-kde is going to get in which is going to imporve a lot of things20:46
jjesseespecially with more kubuntu people there this time, instead of like UdS Boston it was me and riddell20:46
RiddellArby: yes, when it works it works nice enough20:47
apacheloggerseele: there always will be, it's our job to make it work or disappear (e.g. plasma activities) ;-)20:47
seeleRiddell: kde packaging?20:47
Riddellseele: yes20:47
seeleapachelogger: yeah.. disappear wasnt too popular :-/20:47
Riddellseele: unless you're thinking of a different angle20:48
seeleRiddell: i was thinking on the "disappear" angle20:48
rgreeningum .. wow netsplit20:48
apacheloggerseele: it's the bad experience => feedback vs. good experience => no feedback problem IMO20:48
apacheloggerwe saved a lot of people a lot of trouble20:48
Riddellrgreening: yes, we can add new specs as discussion warrents them20:48
Riddellseele: gap analysis is stuff we lack compared to ubuntu/kde 3, Setup is config settings and fixing incomplete bits20:50
Riddellrgreening: sessions are an hour I think20:50
rgreeningRiddell: may be short on time for some of those topics... given the depth of the categories.20:51
seelergreening: they can be extended throughout the week for additional discussion20:51
Riddellrgreening: we can ask for a second slot20:51
Riddellthat's quite common20:51
jjessergreening: we can talk more and more20:51
rgreeningok. cool20:51
jjesseplus we can discuss as a group outside of a session20:51
jjesselike over lunch or dinner20:51
rgreeningtrue.. over brewskies20:51
apacheloggeroh dear20:52
seeleno karaoke though, different hotel this time20:52
Riddellstill has a hot tub though20:52
* rgreening has done some of his programming in a bar on a napkin20:52
apacheloggerRiddell: I guess we can move on before I become sad that I can't go to UDS? :P20:52
seeleRiddell: does it have your swimming pool too?20:52
yuriyapachelogger: too late!20:53
Riddelltxwikinger has arrived20:53
Riddelltxwikinger: shall we consider your membership?20:53
Riddellhmm, maybe he's disappeared again20:53
Riddell"Beta 1 packaging/uploading"20:53
RiddellJontheEchidna: I heard you were incharge of beta 1?20:54
JontheEchidnayeah, we're waiting on tarballs to show up in ktown20:54
RiddellJontheEchidna: 4.1.3 in intrepid should get moved to -proposed (then -updates) so the backports can go to experimental then copied to -backports20:55
Riddellbut I'm away next week20:55
Riddellso no reliable internet20:55
JontheEchidnaI assume we would not place KDE 4.2 into backports until the first stable release20:55
Riddellso you'll need to convince apachelogger or scottk or someone to upload20:55
RiddellJontheEchidna: good point20:55
Riddellso just jaunty20:55
apacheloggerand kubuntu-experimental20:56
RiddellI updated libs/bindings/base this week so they shouldn't be much different to package20:56
apacheloggerwe discussed that in the last meeting20:56
Riddellyou're ahead of me then20:56
apacheloggerseems so20:57
Riddellnext item20:57
RiddellJontheEchidna had a "Bug status report"20:57
JontheEchidnaoh, right :)20:57
=== nxvl_ is now known as nxvl
JontheEchidnaRight now we're in pretty good shape I think20:57
JontheEchidnawe still need help as always20:57
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: I have a script ready for batchuploading, so once you are done with ensuring everything works just rely the dsc, diff.gz and filter.diff ... also you might want to checkout the local-repo additions to the hooks20:58
JontheEchidnaI have gathered some stats about the bugs and how KDE 4.2 will immediately affect the tracker20:58
txwikingerHi folks20:58
txwikingeryes please20:58
apacheloggertxwikinger: o/20:58
jjesseJontheEchidna: i have some more time to help w/ basic triage of things during hthe upcoming weeks so i wil lbe back to trying to track things down20:59
Riddelltxwikinger: too late, JontheEchidna on now, you next20:59
JontheEchidnaKDE 4.2 will immediately close 4 known bugs (about 9%) in kde4libs20:59
Riddellkde4libs only has ~40 bugs?20:59
JontheEchidna48 or so20:59
apacheloggerRiddell: it had 5 when we started triage21:00
JontheEchidnakdebase will also recieve 4 bugfixes, or about 2% of total bugs21:00
apacheloggerRiddell: most bugs in libs are long-standing ones and probably still in kdelibs rather than kde4libs21:00
JontheEchidnathat sounds totally pitiful, but on the bright side almost 50% bugs are both triaged and linked upstream21:00
JontheEchidnaor about 70 bugs21:00
apacheloggeryay for linked upstream21:01
JontheEchidnakdebase has also been triaged down to 160-some bugs :D21:01
yuriy:) yay we're not talking about hundreds or thousands21:01
JontheEchidnaI think we had 600 at the middle of intrepid \o/21:01
txwikingerapachelogger: o/21:01
apacheloggerTBH most of them got just splitted up among base, runtime and workspace21:01
apacheloggeror closed due to KDE3 outdateness21:02
* apachelogger thinks txwikinger is lagging a lot21:02
JontheEchidnakdebase-workspace will have at least 12 bugs fixed in 4.2, or 8% of total open bugs21:02
yuriyJontheEchidna: do you think that the bug tracker is in the kind of shape where it would be useful to try to target particular sets of bugs for alphas?21:02
JontheEchidnayuriy: we have already started doing that21:02
JontheEchidnaaround 45% in kdebase-workspace are both upstreamed and triaged, or about 54 bugs21:03
JontheEchidnabut now comes kdepim...21:03
* apachelogger shudders21:03
* Arby shuffles quietly away21:03
JontheEchidnaat this point in time it has more bugs open than in kdebase21:03
JontheEchidnaonly 3 bugs or 1.5%  of all open bugs are set to be fixed with KDE 4.2 that we know about21:03
JontheEchidnait still has a crapload of hard to reproduce imap bugs from KDE321:04
ArbyI'm a few days away from a mass closure due to lack of info/response21:04
JontheEchidnaArby: evil laughs all around >:)21:04
apacheloggerwe can close most of them once we are switching to akonadi21:04
apacheloggerthe underlying system is completely different (and actually more reliable)21:04
apacheloggerand most bugs for kmail are about dataloss of some sort21:05
apacheloggeror crashes21:05
apacheloggerwhich both should be taken care of by akonadi and KDE 4.221:05
JontheEchidnaSo I think on most fronts we are doing a good job keeping bug volume under control21:05
JontheEchidnawe should put an emphasis on keeping it that way + upstreaming bugs for Jaunty21:06
Riddellseems like 4.2 should be a benefit for bug count21:06
apacheloggermost definitely21:06
JontheEchidnayes, KDE 4.2 should close several dozen bugs21:06
apacheloggeralso a lot of plasma issues are going to be resolved21:06
apacheloggerI was thinking about assigning specific people to specific packages21:07
RiddellI didn't think you could assign21:07
JontheEchidnaoh, and somebody needs to fix apachelogger's kmail21:07
apacheloggerbug triage is a lot more effective the ones doing it have great knowledge of the apps21:07
apacheloggerRiddell: well, on a non-lp level21:07
apacheloggerjust make people focus on a specific package21:07
apacheloggermonitoring all packages at once is rather difficult21:07
yuriycan't you subscribe to a package's bugs?21:07
* yuriy would volunteer for one butt doesn't know which21:08
Arbydo we have enough people with enough knowledge of a given app for that to work?21:08
apacheloggerwe could start on the big bug spots21:08
apacheloggernamely kdepim and the kdebases21:08
apacheloggerinitial triage becomes a lot easier if not everyone has to care about everything21:09
Arbythat's true21:09
txwikingeryuriy: yes I think you can21:09
apacheloggerlike Arby is doing a lot of work in kdepim, so if Arby agrees to focus on kdepim I could filter all kdepim related bug mails coming in via kubuntu-bugs directly to the trash because Arby will take a look at them when he gets a chance21:09
Arbylook at != be able to do anything about :)21:10
apacheloggerArby: triage is everything ;-)21:10
Arbythe underlying mail architecture is black magix to me21:10
Arbybut I agree in principle :)21:11
apacheloggerit improves over time ;-)21:11
apacheloggerthe more people join the core bug squad, the easier it becomes to get initial triage done, and intial is most important to spot major issues21:11
JontheEchidnaplus all the black magix will be moving to akonadi soon anyways21:11
apacheloggerakonadi got very decent debugging facilities :)21:11
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: anything else to say?21:12
JontheEchidnano, I think that's it21:12
JontheEchidnaloosely assigning package focuses should be considered or perhaps worked out in a less official manner21:12
JontheEchidnaI don't think we'll have a problem with that21:12
Riddellthanks beastie squishers21:12
Riddelltxwikinger: about?21:12
yuriyJontheEchidna: send mail asking for volunteers for specific packages?21:13
txwikingerdo I still lag?21:13
Riddelltxwikinger: got a wiki page?21:13
txwikingerhttps://launchpad.net/~txwikinger https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Txwikinger21:13
JontheEchidnayuriy: that might be a wise move21:13
txwikingerI updated it a little bit21:13
Riddelltxwikinger: able to tell us what you do and why you like us?21:13
txwikingerWell.. I like you guys because you rock :D21:14
txwikingerI am an IT professional for about 25 years21:14
txwikingerI have worked with Unix in the past and for about 7 years with Linux21:14
txwikingerI am already an Ubuntu member21:14
txwikingerbut I really never use Gnome.. I like KDE a lot better21:15
txwikingerand I think with enough love, KDE will rock the boat21:15
* JontheEchidna shares the sentiment21:15
Riddelltxwikinger: are you still the top 5-a-day dude?21:15
txwikingeryes Riddell21:16
txwikingerI have also given a presentation at the Ontario Linux Fest last month about Bug triage and 5-a-day21:16
JontheEchidnahe's pretty handy for a hug day21:16
txwikingerwell.. not the top at the moment21:16
apacheloggerthat reminds me, I didn't commit bug stats in at least a month21:16
txwikingerbut I think top 5 or so21:16
Riddellis the "Kubuntu based market-targeted distribution" Icxthus?21:17
txwikingerI am in the process of an intercontinental move at the moment.. Tomorrow I get decent broadband again :D21:17
apacheloggertxwikinger: future plans for Kubuntu?21:17
txwikingeryes it is ichthux21:17
txwikingerHelping with some systemsettings stuff21:18
Riddelltxwikinger: did ichthux do an intrepid release?21:18
txwikingerI already work on the user management21:18
seeleyes please21:18
txwikingerRiddell.. Due to the move I did not have the time to make it 100% work with KDE421:18
txwikingerbut with some manual tuning it still works21:18
seeletxwikinger: supposedly there is someone working on a new kuser UI, but i've no idea what the status is21:18
Riddellsomeone might be txwikinger :)21:19
txwikingerI will get on now to get the bibletime for KDE4 packaged and do some tuning21:19
seeleno, it was a non ubuntero21:19
txwikingerseele: I got it working standalone21:19
yuriytxwikinger: is Nicolas Ternisien aware of that? did you get that mail from him about guidance to kdeadmin for 4.3?21:19
txwikingerI got some information the other day how to get it into systemsettings and will work on that21:19
yuriyer that was to seele ^21:20
txwikingeryuriy: I saw the e-mail21:20
seeleyuriy: hmm.. no.  i wish people would coordinate better21:20
txwikingerI will get in contact21:20
apacheloggerseele: he sent it to kubuntu-devel21:20
txwikingerWell.. I also intend to do some work to become a MOTU especially for Kubuntu stuff21:21
yuriytxwikinger: any plans to get involved upstream? (such as with system settings)21:21
Nightrosetxwikinger: same wuestion for you as for Arby: what do you like most and least about kubuntu or kde4 (your pick)21:21
seeleapachelogger: hmm.. i only saw printer stuff from him on there.  i'll have to dig through the archives21:21
txwikingerI am already maintaining the ichthux packages and bibletime.. bibletime also for Debian21:21
txwikingeryuriy: Sure21:22
txwikingerI like most about KDE4 that it creates a new concept of desktop usage21:22
* seele assumes when someone says "give us a new kuser UI" that there aren't other people trying to do the same thing..21:22
apacheloggerseele: only sent recently, he wants to get all of guidance into kdeadmin and ported to KDE 421:22
txwikingerI think it is very revolutionary21:22
seeletxwikinger: i'm glad you aren't resistant to change21:23
Riddell+1 from me for doing a talk at Lugradio live when jono was badgering me to do one21:23
txwikingerI think a problem is that some user have a little problem with this new concept.. I think we need to help them adust21:23
txwikingeradjust.. I want to help there21:23
seelebadger badger badger..21:23
Tm_TRiddell: +1 for that too21:24
Nightrosehmmm *nod*21:24
seele+1 from me too21:24
rgreening+1 for being a canadian too21:24
yuriy+1 from me21:24
Nightrose+1 for being an uberbugtriager21:25
yuriytxwikinger has been involved for a while21:25
Riddellquite a new Candian :)21:25
ryanakca+1 here :)21:25
txwikingero/ rgreening :)21:25
Riddelltxwikinger: looks like you're in, congratulations21:25
Nightrosewelcome txwikinger21:25
ryanakcatxwikinger: you a canadian yet?21:25
txwikingerthanks Riddell and folkd21:25
* apachelogger hands txwikinger a cookie and a hug21:25
yuriywelcome txwikinger21:25
ryanakcacongrats txwikinger :)21:25
apacheloggerRiddell: ryanakca is read with his agenda item21:25
Tm_Ttxwikinger: hug mama?21:25
Riddellstill some items on the agenda21:25
Riddellryanakca: go go21:25
txwikingerryanakca: Permanent resident so far.. if that counts :D21:26
ryanakcaOkies... We've updated the kubuntu.org theme... but our wiki.kubuntu.org theme seems to be lagging behind / old... ^seelenn^ and I worked on porting mdke's new help.ubuntu.com/community/ theme to Kubuntu colors... What we have so far is http://wiki.ryanak.ca/kubuntu/ .21:26
ryanakcaIs there any interest / should we keep working on it, or would people rather keep the current theme?21:27
apacheloggeris that question serious? Oo21:27
JontheEchidnalooks much better imo21:27
* rgreening likes21:27
Riddelllooks good but I'm not convinced at fixed width21:27
* claydoh likes21:27
ryanakca(I don't know if mdke's theme is the default yet, but, you can select it on the community wiki from preferences -> theme -> ubuntunew )21:27
yuriysame as Riddell21:28
seeledo Kubuntu colors typically match the current KDE release colors?  the website looks very 3.5 in that respect21:28
smartersame as Riddell, fixed width is Bad21:28
* JontheEchidna dislikes fixed width as well21:28
* Tm_T too21:28
ryanakcaseele: well... we're trying to keep it as close to kubuntu.org as possible... that way there's a unity.21:28
yuriyryanakca: images aren't loading from your server21:28
seeleryanakca: ah i see21:28
ryanakcayuriy: I know :)21:28
seeleno no no you people.. fixed width! fixed width!21:29
^seelenn^fixed width has it's advantages21:29
seeleor at least a managed fluid width that doesnt get out of control in larger resolutions21:29
* ^seelenn^ agrees with seele21:29
ryanakcaseele: imho, it would confuse people if one of our sites had colors <x> and another had colors <y>21:29
Tm_Tseele: heh, that too21:29
apacheloggerseele: that is more sensible than fixed21:30
apacheloggerryanakca: fixed with gives us a lot of trouble21:30
apacheloggerJontheEchidna can also whine about that21:30
* JontheEchidna thought he already did21:30
apacheloggergetting content to look good in a fixed with theme is a bloody waste of time21:30
ryanakcaOk, I guess we'll adapt it to ``fluid width that doesn't get out of control in larger resolutions'' as well?21:30
seeleapachelogger: the point is to aim for 20-25 english words per line21:30
* Tm_T hate fixed widths and font sizes which doesn't follow users settings21:30
seeleany more than that and prose is too difficult to read21:30
seeleeven 25 wpl is kindof long21:31
apacheloggerseele: in a wiki you barley even have paragraphs that long ;-)21:31
Tm_Tseele: I disagree on that21:31
^seelenn^ryanakca: Some serious cross platform/browser testing I think then21:31
seeledepends on what is wikied21:31
seeleTm_T: don't make me dig out research, because i'll do it21:31
ryanakcaseele: if you're interested... we'd love your usability feedback while we work on the wikitheme...21:31
apacheloggerseele: I think the problem is addressed at the wrong node ... it is rather the viewing application that should ensure readability21:32
seeleryanakca: sure, just ping me with questions21:32
ryanakcaseele: thanks :)21:33
seeleapachelogger: it's a bit irresponsible to place the burden of usability on the user's choice of browser21:33
Riddellseems like we want the theme21:33
seeleotherwise, why "design" a page at all21:33
Riddellclaydoh is next up21:33
JontheEchidnaburn kubuntu-users with fire!21:34
claydohfirst, do any of us actually folllow it at all?21:34
claydohbesides me21:34
Nightrosei read some of it and decided not to continue21:34
Nightrosewaste of time21:34
RiddellI scan over it21:34
* JontheEchidna doesn't even bother21:34
* rgreening avoids suchs lists21:34
seeleif the kde community leader can't read it then it must be bad21:35
JontheEchidnaunless somebody points out a lulzish post21:35
claydohNightrose: I feel that way too :(21:35
apacheloggerwe need to do something!21:35
claydohdo we need a support list  an anyones opinion?21:35
apacheloggerRiddell: IIRC it is possible to block threads or something?21:35
Riddellso split it into kubuntu-users for support and kubuntu-users-chat for everything else?21:35
Tm_Tseele: I know that research, but it doesn't apply to me21:35
seelepublic humiliation?21:36
Nightrosestricter moderation?21:36
apacheloggerRiddell: I don't why we need a list for it at all21:36
seeleNightrose: same difference?21:36
NightroseRiddell: i don't really think we need a chat mailinglist tbh21:36
Nightrosemaybe i am wrong21:36
apacheloggerRiddell: if people want to elaborate their opinion, which is what most of these threads are, they might very well get a blog21:36
claydohapachelogger: that is part of the question21:36
Nightroseor a cat :P21:36
JontheEchidnaforums are better; we have forums for both kubuntu and KDE now21:37
rgreeningNightrose: groan21:37
Riddellso we should just block anyone who gets off support topics?21:37
apacheloggernah, just the threads if that is possible21:37
Nightrosewell maybe start it with a "here is how it goes" email21:37
claydohRiddell: that would of course tick everyone off21:37
Nightrosetellign them that the list is becomming useless for a lot of people21:37
claydohthen there's the Heavy Hand of the Big Evil Kubunntu Devs21:37
Nightrosebecause there is no actual support happening21:38
JontheEchidnaclaydoh: well, the point *is* that we dont' want them :P21:38
apacheloggerreally, we should just block the threads as they appear21:38
Nightroseapachelogger: can single threads be blocked?21:38
Riddelltopics can21:39
apacheloggersounds good21:39
Riddellseems like we need a volunteer to be a more active moderator21:39
Nightroseclaydoh maybe?21:39
apacheloggerI vote for claydoh21:39
* claydoh runs and hides21:39
apacheloggerRiddell: maybe we should just get a team of moderators21:39
Tm_Thaha, claydoh you're volunteered now21:39
claydoha team would be ebtter21:39
* Nightrose drags claydoh back in :P21:39
* apachelogger is a fan of load distribution21:39
claydohI'm in :)21:39
Riddellok, I'll work out how to do that after the meeting21:40
claydohmaybe a set of simple guidlines are needed?21:41
Riddellgood idea21:41
Nightroseclaydoh and i can try to work out an email to announce that if you want21:41
Riddellplease do21:41
claydohkubuntuforums is soo much easier to manage :)21:41
apacheloggerclaydoh, Nightrose: get a set of guidelines under which cases a topic will be blocked21:42
apacheloggerand include it in the announcement so that everyone is instantly aware of what is "support"21:42
ryanakcaYou'd probably have to repost them monthly... and link to them on the lists subscription page...21:42
claydohyes, many do that21:43
apacheloggerwell, repost when they shift off topic again21:43
Nightroseclaydoh: ping me after the meeting if you have time then we can work something out21:43
Nightrosenext topic i guess?21:43
Riddellwhich is apachelogger's topic21:43
* apachelogger had a hard time finding the right konqueror window21:44
claydohNightrose: have to leave soon for my wife's class, won't ba back till very late21:44
apacheloggerearlier today some URLs were posted in which a 3rd party repo was advertised21:44
apacheloggermore precisely a 3rd party repo for KDE 3 on Intrepid21:44
Nightroseclaydoh: ok - tomorrow then?21:44
apacheloggerI am a bit concerned because these packages use an increased epoch in order to override the KDE 4 version21:45
apacheloggerso that everyone understands what I mean, the epoch is essentially the most important version number of a package21:45
apacheloggerthe only way to supersed and epoch is by bumping it21:45
Nightroseany contact from their or our side so far?21:46
claydohI have suggested twice21:46
apacheloggerwe use epoch 4, the KDE 3 packages use epoch 7, so eventually everyone who installs these packages doesn't only get 3rd party packages with various manual additions to our hardy packages21:46
* Nightrose loves communication21:46
apacheloggerso they loose the capability to upgrade properly21:47
seeleapachelogger: how widespread is its use?21:47
rgreeningomg. how lame is that21:47
Nightrosethis will cause major screwups with jaunty i assume?21:47
JontheEchidnaNightrose: most likely21:47
apacheloggerseele: it was posted on ubuntuforums so it is _a lot_ I would say21:47
claydohaccording to the guy, 200 unique ip's downloaded21:47
claydohbut not sure how long ago21:47
Arbyjaunty -> jaunty +1 upgrades will likely explode21:48
Nightrosethere was a blogpost on puc about the new automatics21:48
Nightrosemaybe something like this is in order21:48
apacheloggeralso communication wouldn't help much, there is no easy way out of this21:48
Nightrosemaybe not as harsh21:48
Nightroselet me look for it21:48
apacheloggerif we help him get the packages done in a way that they don't need to have an epoch > ours it would break upgrades for the people who already installed it21:48
claydohdo we invite them to our table?21:48
Arbyis it worth a response to the forum thread explaining the future consequences?21:49
NightroseArby: definitel21:49
RiddellArby: I'd say so21:49
apacheloggermost important for now21:49
claydohArby: yes21:49
Nightroseusers assume this is safe21:49
smarteralso, some of his packaging seems frightening21:49
JontheEchidnathey should have made -kde3 packages instead of this epoch madness21:49
* rgreening thinks we need to communicae that they get no support if they do this.21:49
Arbyok, I think I just volunteered21:49
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: exaclty, if he would have contacted us beforehand...21:49
smarterI looked a bit into the forum thread and he said something like he couldn't just use PPA to build the source because he modified binary packages ::21:49
Tm_Tsmarter: explain that somewhere, for the packager and for the users21:49
Tm_Tsmarter: WHAT?!21:50
smarternot really understood what he meant21:50
* JontheEchidna faints21:50
claydohsmarter: on kubuntuforums, he declined as he wanted total control21:50
* smarter tries finding the post21:50
Nightrose^ this one21:50
* JontheEchidna thinks it should be exactly as harsh21:51
* claydoh disagrees21:51
claydohnot that harsh, but harsh21:51
seelewhat's wrong with kde3 backports that people went and used this instead?21:51
apacheloggerwe should nicely ask him to take the repo offline21:51
smarter"I've had to do so much fiddling with the build environment that I doubt this will work. I want a place to upload the binaries (and source) that I have already built, tested, in some cases modified, and verified."21:51
apacheloggeruntil we resovled this properly21:51
rgreeningI agree with apachelogger, as a first step. then move to harsher if needed21:51
JontheEchidnayeah, probably would be best21:52
RiddellI suspect he won't take much notice21:52
Tm_Trgreening: harsher would be...21:52
Nightrosei still think we should make it very clear how dangerous this is21:52
* smarter still don't gets why people don't just stick with Hardy21:52
Tm_TRiddell: but we must try21:52
apacheloggerseele: this one causes enroumous problems with upgrades to anything > 8.1021:52
Tm_TNightrose: that's a first priority I think21:52
smarterif it's really needed, we could put a statement on kubuntu.org21:52
claydohsmarter: they want the 'latest and greatest'kernel, xorg, yet want a stable system21:52
apacheloggerwould be an option21:52
Nightrosesmarter: blog and forum should do i think21:53
seeleapachelogger: i get that.. i'm trying to understand why someone would use this repo instead of using the kde3 backports that scottk did21:53
smarterand if KDE 3.5.11 is released and this guy tries to package it, he might very well causes some severe breakages21:53
Riddellsmarter: I think that would just attract attention to them21:53
Nightroseseele: they want intrepid21:53
smarterRiddell: good point21:53
Nightroseand not stay with hardy21:53
apacheloggerseele: <claydoh> smarter: they want the 'latest and greatest'kernel, xorg, yet want a stable system21:53
claydohseele: probably didn't know about scottk's21:53
seeleis there any plan for 3.5.11?  3.5.10 was an afterthought and a weekend of coolo's time21:53
JontheEchidnaScottK only made -kde3 packages for kdvi21:54
Tm_Tseele: it will come, there were some good fixes right after .10 release21:54
Riddellnothing about 3.5.11 on kde-packager or release-team recently21:54
apacheloggertechbase would know21:54
Nightroselast i heard it wasn't a clear no but nothing besides that21:55
Tm_TRiddell: prolly will take some time until it's "needed" even21:55
apacheloggeranyway, who is going to contact the repo dude?21:55
smarterRiddell: is kde-packager an open list?21:55
apacheloggerArby is going to post a comment to the forums thread21:55
apacheloggersmarter: no21:55
Riddellsmarter: no, it's super secret21:55
Arbywhy? out of interest21:56
smarteroh :/21:56
Riddellbecause it's main use is to announce the secret pre-release of tars a week before the real release21:56
Arbyfair enough21:56
* apachelogger looks at smarter and thinks he would be perfect for contacting the repo dood21:56
ryanakcaapachelogger: imho, it might have a bit more of an impact if someone from the KCC contacted him that just a regular ol' member... *shrug*21:56
Nightrosemost impact would have a core dev imho21:57
* apachelogger will write tomorrow21:57
* Nightrose hands apachelogger a cookie21:57
claydohhe was open to fixing his maintainer info in his early stuff21:57
claydohso he may be open to learning21:58
* apachelogger will also make sure he adds a 15 line signature stating all the things that make him important, just in case core dev is still not enough21:58
Nightroseclaydoh: still a lot of damage is done already probably :(21:58
claydohI agree21:58
apacheloggerit is21:58
apacheloggerresolving this is gonna be fun21:58
* claydoh doen't want to watch21:58
apacheloggerI am finished21:58
Riddellany other business?21:59
apacheloggerAny other stuff we might want to talk about?21:59
* seele can imagine ScottK having a seizure over this21:59
apacheloggerI actually have21:59
smarter[22:50:26] <Nightrose> http://www.advogato.org/person/mjg59/diary.html?start=16421:59
smarterthat's pretty scary stuff21:59
apacheloggertoday I got the latest issue of german LinuxUser magazine21:59
apacheloggerthey had an article about KDE 4 goodiness21:59
JontheEchidnaoh yeah, I heard about that21:59
apacheloggerand stressed the fact that 4.1 comes with a cube21:59
apacheloggerso, where is my cube?! :P21:59
* Nightrose puts a cube next to apachelogger's cookies22:00
* apachelogger takes the cookie and hides inside the cube22:00
Riddellhold your breath for the 4.2 beta with full cubeiness22:00
* Nightrose holds breath and hopes beta 1 is released soon22:01
Riddellif anyone is in France next week, let me know and I'll drop by22:01
Riddellor western Germany for that matter22:01
apacheloggersmarter lives there22:01
* Nightrose is not too far from france ;-)22:02
apacheloggerNightrose lives there22:02
Tm_TRiddell: no but I'm some thousand kilometer north from there, like to visit us too? (;)22:02
NightroseRiddell: Karlsruhe if you are anywhere near22:02
apacheloggerlulz I guess22:02
RiddellTm_T: another trip I think22:02
Riddellthanks for coming all22:02
NightroseRiddell: Stuttgart works as well22:02
* Nightrose waves22:03
JontheEchidna2 hours, not bad ;-)22:03
* rgreening looks for food22:03
* ^seelenn^ looks for coffee22:03
* claydoh cooks dinner...22:03
apacheloggernixternal: you are pretty good at guessing meeting time ;-)22:03
ryanakcaCheers, supper time :D22:03
* Tm_T looks for his wife and the baby but cannot see them22:04
NightroseTm_T: ohhhhhhhh22:04
Nightrosethe baby is born????22:04
Tm_Tyup, saturday evening (:22:04
Tm_Tboth in hospital still, and I couldn't get in after school, was too late22:05
Tm_Tanyway ->22:06
* ^seelenn^ has coffee22:09
=== beuno_ is now known as beuno
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Nov 17:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 13:00: Desktop Team | 21 Nov 20:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 25 Nov 16:00: Server Team
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
=== kirkland` is now known as kirkland

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