[04:19]  * Hobbsee waves
[04:25] <persia> Hey Hobbsee
[13:35] <ian_brasil> hi, is 8.10 an official release of mid and mobile or will that be with 9.04?
[13:36] <persia> ian_brasil, I think it's best to say it's an official release of MID, and a preview release of UMPC.
[13:36] <persia> 9.04 should be an official release of both, unless something changes.
[13:37] <ian_brasil> persia: thx ..is this on a wiki somewhere?
[13:38] <ian_brasil> if not maybe it should be?
[13:38] <persia> It probably should be.
[13:39]  * persia has been intending to update the Mobile FAQ for a couple days, and keeps getting distracted
[14:50] <thebishop> hey, i'm really interested in the MID formfactor, but the only one coming soon is the Gigabyte M528, and that one has some problems.  Have others been announced?
[14:55] <persia> There's the Sharp D4.  The Aigo MID.  There's probably some others.  I haven't heard of any that made everyone happy yet.
[14:56] <persia> I think it's still an evolving segment.  Manufacturers are trying different designs trying to find the right combination of size, pixel density, weight, storage, and poser.
[14:56] <persia> s/poser/power/
[14:56] <thebishop> persia, well, the M528 is the Aigo with a different logo
[14:57] <thebishop> the Sharp is a little pricey :(
[14:57] <thebishop> and big
[14:57] <persia> Yeah.  There's three or four like that.
[14:57] <persia> The Sharp is a little bigger, but has 10x the hard drive and 3x the pixel density.
[14:57] <thebishop> it looks good, except the storage is a disappointing
[14:57] <persia> (but yes, it's a bit pricey)
[14:58] <thebishop> i'm not sure I can justify more than $700
[14:58] <thebishop> what i really want is an iPhone that runs linux and is open to user modification
[14:58] <thebishop> heh, small thing, i know
[14:59] <thebishop> I like this formfactor though, I hope we see a lot of competition in 2009
[15:01] <persia> My problems with the iPhone are 1) not enough storage (I'd prefer the iPod classic HD), 2) poor input support (I like keyboards), and 3) low resolution.  Other than that, they look lovely (oh, and yes, they should run Ubuntu).
[15:02] <thebishop> persia, yeah, i agree with you on the storage.  i want 64GB at least
[15:03] <thebishop> but hoping for a hard drive is starting to feel quaint next year, 64gb will be pretty cheap
[15:03] <persia> Maybe.
[15:04] <thebishop> i wish the iPod Touch had been iPhone-Phone+HDD, i would have one already
[15:04] <thebishop> except, it doesn't work with linux anymore
[15:04] <thebishop> so fuck apple
[15:04] <persia> !ohmy
[15:04] <thebishop> oh sorrty
[15:04] <thebishop> "f" apple
[15:05] <thebishop> the Nokia N810 wouldn't be a bad option if it had a normal SD slot instead of MicroSD...
[15:05] <thebishop> what's the deal with that anyway, it seems like all the new portables are going Micro
[15:45] <lool> You people knew of http://linux.onarm.com/ ?
[15:46] <ogra> yes
[15:47] <ogra> ECHAN btw :)
[15:47] <playya> hi everyone
[15:47] <persia> Hey playya 
[15:47] <thebishop> heh
[15:47] <ogra> yo playya 
[15:47] <thebishop> lool, so it's just a platform for the N810?
[15:48] <lool> ogra: ECHAN.?
[15:48] <thebishop> it's getting frustrating to see the software advancing so far for hardware that barely exists yet :(
[15:48] <lool> ogra: I did intend to mention it here
[15:48]  * ogra points lool to #ubuntu-arm :)
[15:48] <ogra> ah, well :)
[15:48] <lool> ogra: I need to remember about it
[15:49]  * lool was just thinking that it was cool they use the n810 as a platform :)
[15:49] <ogra> yeah
[15:49] <thebishop> it is cool.  unfortunately, the 810 has some hardware deficiencies :(
[15:50] <ogra> does it ? 
[15:50]  * ogra thought its just the n800 with kbd added
[15:50] <playya> and a newer wireless chip
[15:50] <ogra> and a newer cam
[15:50]  * lool teleports to -arm
[15:50] <persia> And still not any storage space
[15:50] <playya> and the latest version has wimax
[15:50] <ogra> persia, two SD slots 
[15:51] <persia> So, maybe 32GB, if I stuff it.
[15:51] <ogra> depends what you want to invest 
[15:51] <ogra> :)
[15:51] <persia> Are there 32GB SDHC cards?  I didn't see any last week.
[15:52] <ogra> i have heard of 32G SD cards ... (not seen them though)
[15:52] <playya> i herat of 64 GB but >1000€
[15:53] <persia> I could get another device for less than that!
[15:53] <playya> s/herat/heart
[15:53] <persia> Still, I'd rather not have a "phone", a "media player", a "pocket computer", and a laptop.
[15:53] <thebishop> ogra, i thought the 800 has SD slots, but the 810 has micro only
[15:54] <thebishop> if the 810 had SD, i'd use it as my portable media player (and everything else, too)
[15:55] <ogra> whats wrong with micro ? 
[15:55] <ogra> you get them at the same sizes as SD (here at least)
[15:55] <ogra> and they usually come with SD adapter by default 
[15:57] <persia> I've only seen micro up to 8GB here, but it's about the same price as SD for the same speed and storage.
[15:57] <thebishop> ogra, you can get micro up to 32GB?
[15:57] <persia> Except the micros go on sale more (2GB@980 yen)
[15:57] <ogra> i cant even get SD up to 32 
[15:57] <thebishop> 32GB is the barebones minimum fo rme
[15:58] <thebishop> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178212
[15:58] <ogra> i get up ot 16G SD here 
[15:58] <ogra> i only heard from people having 32G ones
[15:58] <ogra> micro might end at 8 in default shops ... but i guess you can buy them with 16G if you invest enough somewhere
[15:59] <thebishop> i wish hardware manufacturers would stop forcing ever-smaller nand chips on us... at this rate, i'm never going to get the capacity i want
[15:59] <ogra> just lower your expectations :)
[15:59] <ogra> helps a lot :)
[15:59] <thebishop> impossible
[15:59] <thebishop> i have a 30GB music collection, and it's not getting smaller
[16:03] <persia> thebishop, The problem isn't the smaller form-factor, so much.  You should welcome that if you want more storage.  Lots of 4GB micros sold means optimisation of manufacturing, which increases the chance you can get a 128GB SSD for a reasonable price.
[16:11] <thebishop> persia, that's a good point.  on the other hand, i want a moderate amount of storage in a handheld device.  i'm not especially interested in high-capacity SSD for laptops (yet)
[16:11] <thebishop> the usual 2.5" drive seems OK for that at the moment
[16:11] <persia> who said anything about laptops?
[16:12] <thebishop> it seems like the trend among portable hardware manufacturers is 4-8GB in increasingly smaller devices.  no one seems to be pushing for 64GB+
[16:12] <persia> My D4 has 40G.
[16:12] <persia> If I was adventurous, I could probably stick a 60 or 80 in there, but I don7t really want to open it up.
[18:09] <NCommander> hey persia 
[18:13] <persia> Hey NCommander 
[18:13] <NCommander> persia, so expect for fbreader, I think we got everything that is lpia specific
[18:13] <NCommander> (I'm finishing tsclient)
[18:13] <persia> Cool.  I'll rerun my script tomorrow to double-check.
[18:14] <persia> Thanks a lot for chasing that.  I'm rather curious to know how well it works on the Wii.
[18:14] <ogra> wii ? 
[18:14] <persia> ogra, powerpc device from Nintendo.
[18:14] <ogra> i know what a wii is
[18:14] <NCommander> ogra, I have Ubuntu running on mine :-)
[18:14] <ogra> i didnt know anyone runs ubuntu on it
[18:14] <NCommander> I want to see how mid works on it
[18:15]  * ogra never understood the reason to buy an overly expensive game console to not play with it 
[18:15] <persia> torcs!
[18:16] <persia> More generally, Ubuntu has a bunch of decent games.
[18:17] <ogra> well, you could just use a PC and get aaway a lot cheaper :)
[18:19] <NCommander> persia, anyway, my branch needs to be merged once I finish tsclient, and then ubuntu-mid regenerated
[18:19] <NCommander> (once we resolve fbreader)
[18:20] <persia> I thought we had determined a solution for fbreader.
[18:20] <persia> To seed the alternate front-end separately to force the choice.
[18:21] <NCommander> I'm just not sure it will work
[18:21]  * NCommander is having issues figuring out germinate
[18:22] <persia> OK.  What about germinate is troublesome?
[18:24] <NCommander> I have no idea how to parse the output :-P
[18:24] <NCommander> I get loads of files, and no idea what they mean
[18:24] <persia> Right.  How are you using it?
[18:26]  * NCommander sighs
[18:27] <NCommander> persia, germinate mid
[18:27] <NCommander> persia, anyway, tsclient's hildon patch is broken
[18:27] <NCommander> autoconf issues
[18:27] <NCommander> \o/
[18:27] <persia> OK.  What is your goal?
[18:28] <NCommander> My goal?
[18:29] <persia> You're running `germinate mid`.  What are you seeking to accomplish by doing so?
[18:29] <NCommander> I'm trying to get it to spit out the list of packages that it would include ont he CD
[18:30] <persia> I don't think it works quite that way.  I think it generates the list of dependencies.recommendations.
[18:31] <persia> I'd recommend downloading the mobile-meta source, editing update.cfg to point to your repos, and running ./update therein.  That ought give you a working metapackage that you could install.
[18:32] <NCommander> works for me
[18:32] <NCommander> So technically everything is de-hildonified ATM
[18:33] <NCommander> Expect tsclient, evince and ekiga (I think) have broken hildon patches
[18:33] <NCommander> \o/
[18:33] <persia> Doesn't fbreader still need a bit of fiddling with the dependencies?
[18:33] <persia> I think lool said the evince patch was being dropped.
[18:33] <persia> ekiga needs review against ekiga 3.0, as that's on the way: probably worth deferring.
[18:34] <persia> tsclient needs help, presumably.
[18:34] <NCommander> Well, upstream Debian actually has the hildon patch
[18:34] <NCommander> So someone needs to go to pkg-gnome and fix it there
[18:34] <persia> Or we need a different hildonised tool that does a similar thing.
[18:34] <NCommander> Do we have another tool that can connect ot a terminal services client?
[18:35] <NCommander> persia, is there a blueprint of things we want to discuss at UDS about MID/Mobile?
[18:35] <persia> Yes.  vinagre.  rdesktop.
[18:35] <NCommander> I personally would like to see something with VNC
[18:36] <persia> No, there's lots of blueprints.  See https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty for the current list of approved stuff (which is expected to grow over the next couple days : there should be ~250 topics for discussion)
[18:37] <persia> Which reminds me.
[18:37] <NCommander> Ooh
[18:37] <NCommander> The mobile seed one reminds me we need to get he xubuntu jaunty seed moved
[18:37] <persia> ian_brasil, Did you register the dogtail spec or the GPS spec yet?
[18:39] <NCommander> persia, should I send an email to the list about my suggestion on dropping treb to a recommends vs. a dependency?
[18:40] <persia> NCommander, Probably.
[18:40] <persia> Or file a bug.
[18:40] <persia> I'd say that those have about even chances of getting in front of the right people to fix it, but that sending it to the list would get feedback from more users.
[18:40] <NCommander> persia, bug against what specifically?
[18:41] <persia> mobile-meta, if you want to change the metapackage.  treb if you want to change treb.
[18:41] <NCommander> well, the ideal fix is to demarry treb and OOo
[18:42] <persia> Well, yes, but that means a reimplementation of treb, which is basically orphaned upstream.
[19:38] <NCommander> persia, ok, so your idea running update didn't quite work
[19:38] <NCommander> persia, since it checks the main archive for packages, and I can't figure out a way to make it check both a PPA and the main archive at the same time :-P
[19:39] <persia> Oh, you've stuff in a PPA?
[19:39] <persia> I know how to make it check a different BZR branch, but I don't know how to make it check a different repo.  I think you'd have to trick debootstrap somehow.
[19:42] <NCommander> persia, :-P
[21:30] <mkrufky> is mike frey around?  i used to know his nick but i dont recall it
[23:39] <NCommander> davidm, ping
[23:40] <davidm> NCommander, hello
[23:40] <NCommander> davidm, how goes your night?
[23:40] <NCommander> (or day, or whenever :)?
[23:40] <davidm> just about to sit down to dinner with my family :-)
[23:41] <NCommander> ah, I can wait until after dinner, ping me when you return
[23:41] <davidm> It's just about 6PM my local time
[23:41] <NCommander> Your in Altantic?
[23:41] <playya> brasil?
[23:41] <ogra> heh
[23:41]  * NCommander needs someone who can rescore builds
[23:41] <ogra> the temperature might be similar
[23:42] <ogra> NCommander, cjwatson might still be up
[23:42] <davidm> Central time USA
[23:42] <ogra> davidm surely cant rescore 
[23:42] <davidm> NCommander, I can't rescore builds
[23:42] <NCommander> oh, no, what I pinged you for was completely unrelated
[23:42] <NCommander> That was just a side comment :-)
[23:44] <davidm> Ah, OK later then I'm about to be called to dinner
[23:45] <NCommander> cya :-)
[23:51] <khaeru> 'Ello 'ello?
[23:54] <khaeru> I have been Googling for about an hour trying to figure out if it's possible to switch my Acer Aspire One from the i386 to the lpia kernel, simply by choosing different repositories (e.g. from the UMPC image)
[23:55] <khaeru> Lack of success indicates no, but I would appreciate if someone could confirm that.
[23:55] <ogra> you would need to use the -mid image for installing nd then install the ubuntu-mobile package for the desktop
[23:56] <ogra> the -mid image is the only one using lpia in intrepid
[23:56] <ogra> you cant cross-grade atm
[23:56] <khaeru> OK, thanks for the info.
[23:57] <khaeru> If the UMPC image is still i386, and I have what is technically more of a "UMPC" than an "MID", I guess there wouldn't be much benefit?
[23:58] <ogra> well, UMPC simply uses the ubuntu-mobile metapackge 
[23:59] <ogra> the image is built for generic x86 though
[23:59] <ogra> but that doesnt mean you cant install the metapackage in lpia