[00:04] <ikonia> LjL: I've just been asked is it possilbe to hide the /ban list on a channel to non-priviled users
[00:04] <ikonia> or anyone for that matter out of interest
[00:05] <Myrtti> only one question comes to mind
[00:05] <Myrtti> why should it be hidden?
[00:05] <ikonia> don't know ??
[00:06] <ikonia> it was just a question I've been asked
[00:21] <Mez> ikonia: no - it's a channel mode list set by the server. It's not hideable unless coded that way in the IRCD
[00:25] <LjL> ikonia: no. you can, on the other hand, ban *everyone* and set +e's for the ones who can join - e's are hidden.
[00:47] <Mez> LjL: no they aren't
[00:48] <Mez> oh, you need to be an op... my bad
[00:56] <PriceChild> @bansearch Narcissus 
[00:56] <Narcissus> Anyone know why im banned from #ubuntu or #ubuntu-topic ?
[00:58] <PriceChild> !give LjL randomness
[00:58]  * Narcissus gives PriceChild a rugby ball
[01:00] <PriceChild> The above.
[01:01] <Narcissus> What? What
[01:01] <Narcissus> What's wrong with that?
[01:03] <Jordan_U> "self" is posting spam in #ubuntu
[01:05] <PriceChild> he's in a few places... lemme take a look
[01:14] <PriceChild> Narcissus: scripts like that are easily abused and I think you were banned because of this.
[01:17] <Narcissus> and if I remove them I will gain entry back to the channel(s) in which I am banned?
[01:20] <PriceChild> 1226971089 1118T011809 < ras0ir> !ubuntu
[01:20] <PriceChild> 1226971091 1118T011811 < phrik> Ewww! Wipe that ubuntu off your shoes before it gets all over the carpet!
[01:20] <PriceChild> ahh loving it
[01:20] <PriceChild> Narcissus: I don't think there's any reason why I wouldn't.
[01:21] <Narcissus> Okay, give me a second to unload them
[01:22] <Narcissus> Done PriceChild 
[01:23] <PriceChild> Narcissus: Done, play nice :)
[01:23] <Narcissus> Thanks PriceChild 
[01:42] <Myrtti> woo, I coded php for the first time in...
[01:42] <Myrtti> three years.
[01:46] <jrib> Myrtti: was it everything you expected it would be?
[01:47] <Myrtti> it actually was exactly the same stuff I coded three years ago.
[01:49] <Myrtti> anyway, it works.
[01:49] <Myrtti> I haz a mobile start page now.
[01:49] <mneptok> and all it took was register_globals
[01:50] <Myrtti> http://myrtti.fi/m/
[01:50] <Myrtti> ♥ woo \o/
[01:53] <frogscott> elo elo
[01:54] <Pici> Myrtti: Nice :)
[02:57] <mneptok> i'm winning the war on pants!
[03:03]  * jrib doesn't ask
[03:05] <mneptok> i told my girlfriend i was a massive studcake.
[03:06] <mneptok> as in all wars, in the war on pants the first casualty is the truth.
[03:06] <nickrud> did she have a massive stroke?
[03:06] <jdong> urgh, horrible puns
[03:06] <jdong> please stop
[03:06] <jdong> *cry*
[03:07] <jdong> now normally I'd assume such puns are unintentional... but this place is exceptional.
[03:07]  * jrib DID NOT ask
[03:07] <mneptok> even if the people aren't.
[03:07] <nickrud> puns are the only human source of humor; all jokes are implanted by aliens
[03:08] <jrib> actually, that's not quite true
[03:08] <Flannel> nickrud: I'd argue feghoots are terrestrial as well.
[03:08] <nickrud> hm, I think the jury is out on that one
[03:09] <jrib> night
[03:09] <nickrud> actually that's the premise of a pretty good science fiction short story I read once; the aliens went away and iirc everyone ended up killing themselves 
[03:14] <Flannel> nickrud: sources.list.d considered harmful
[03:14] <nickrud> since when?
[03:14] <Flannel> Not officially, unfortunately.
[03:15] <Flannel> But, its the most annoying thing in the world
[03:15] <nickrud> I do like not altering provided configs, and find the *.d debian concept elegant
[03:16] <Flannel> Except when you have to explain to people that they need to pastebin their sources.list, *and* all the stuff in .d
[03:16] <Flannel> it *ought* to be that .d gets collected and compiled into sources.list, like grub
[03:17] <Flannel> but, thats just me.  I don't see a point of obfuscating your sources.list
[03:18] <nickrud> that would be kinda nice, have it show up in /var somewhere
[03:18] <nickrud> concept is to allow other packages to add functionality without altering another packages file, which is a no no.
[03:19] <Flannel> Yes, except sources.list isn't in a package
[03:19] <nickrud> plus it gets around doing checking diffs during a package upgrade, comparing maintainer's file with any alterations you've made.
[03:20] <nickrud> eh, doing or checking, but not both I guess
[03:20] <Flannel> sources.list belongs to no packages, so it wont ever have that issue.
[03:20] <nickrud> true.
[03:23] <nickrud> maybe a factoid, !showmeyoursources with a copy & paste command line, like cat /etc/apt/sources.list > list ; cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* >> list
[03:23] <mneptok> nickrud: you want a photo of my parents?
[03:24] <nickrud> mneptok, are you sure they don't mind being outed?
[03:24] <nickrud> but sure, I'll bite
[03:25] <mneptok> nickrud: !showmeyoursources ?
[03:25] <nickrud> I'm not very original
[03:25] <mneptok> either you want a photo of my parents, or this is first year journalism school ;)
[03:25] <nickrud> and I have to have things beat into my head sometimes. DOH
[03:53] <Flannel> Hobbsee: your cinnamon roll is showing in -motu
[04:05] <bazhang> @bansearch apeiron
[05:07] <danroj> hola gente
[05:07] <danroj> he sido baneado en ubuntu-es
[05:07] <danroj> por un bot..
[05:07] <danroj> que dice que estoy haciendo flood...
[05:07] <danroj> alguien me puede ayudar?
[05:08] <Flannel> danroj: #ubuntu-irc is the place for LoCo channel stuff
[05:08] <Flannel> danroj: /join #ubuntu-irc
[05:08] <danroj> ...
[06:14] <Flannel> nalioth: not nice to ban evade, sheesh.
[06:16] <Flannel> Hi Edder_, how can we help you?
[06:16] <Edder_> oops wrong channel
[06:23] <nalioth> Flannel: ?
[06:23] <Flannel> nalioth: floodbots seem to think you're banned somewhere: 22:10 <+FloodBot1> -WARNING: nalioth!nalioth@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.nalioth may be evading the ban on nalioth!i=nalioth@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.nalioth
[06:27] <nalioth> interesting
[06:27] <nalioth> i think they're whacked
[07:02] <elkbuntu> heh
[07:23] <ikonia> btlogin
[07:23] <ikonia> @btlogin
[07:44] <bazhang> sounds like hackintosh not a real apple computer
[07:45] <ikonia> good point
[07:45] <bazhang> he is saying he deleted refit and booting from grub; that does not make sense, esp. as he claims booting holding down c, option or t do not work (which all work on Macs)
[07:46] <ikonia> yes
[07:47] <elkbuntu> either that, or its a troll.
[07:48] <bazhang> or both
[07:49] <ikonia> bazhang: nice, I was going for the cpu
[07:50] <bazhang> ikonia, he claims the livecd works but os X cd does not, sounds very fishy :)
[07:50] <ikonia> very
[07:50]  * ikonia waits to see amd cpu ;)
[07:50] <bazhang> hehe
[07:51] <elkbuntu> has anyone tried the 64bit flash?
[07:51]  * elkbuntu lacks a pc of that architecture
[07:52] <bazhang> heard people in -ot talking about it, dont have the 64 bit os running so have not tried it myself
[07:52] <ikonia> elkbuntu: did a base install, nothing to write home about yet
[07:52] <ikonia> hmmm the new macs come with nvidia cards don't they ?
[07:54] <ikonia> http://www.apple.com/uk/macbook/
[07:54] <ikonia> yes the new macbooks come with nvidia cards
[08:01] <ikonia> all of a sudden troubled knows about strace
[08:01] <ikonia> and other reasonably advanced commands
[08:01]  * ikonia smells troll
[08:57] <Myrtti> hello holycow
[08:57] <Myrtti> how can we help you today
[08:58] <Myrtti> oops, holymoo
[08:58] <Myrtti> no, that isn't right
[08:58] <Myrtti> MOIN GibbaTheHutt 
[08:58] <Myrtti> moin everyone
[09:00] <GibbaTheHutt> morning
[09:02]  * GibbaTheHutt finds this channel more mellow than #ubuntu :)
[09:02] <Myrtti> GibbaTheHutt: did you have anything else than a social call?
[09:03] <GibbaTheHutt> ah I was forwarded here because I had a !give as part of my xchat so was hoofed out, I "think" I've disabled it, but need it tested before I'm safe to go out in the wild :)
[09:04] <Myrtti> !give
[09:04]  * GibbaTheHutt gives Myrtti 
[09:04] <Myrtti> WRONG
[09:04] <GibbaTheHutt> bah, still enabled
[09:04] <Myrtti> try again
[09:04] <GibbaTheHutt> how bizarre
[09:08] <GibbaTheHutt> I don't suppose (apologies for this!)...
[09:08] <GibbaTheHutt> have disabled it, now have tried editing the perl :)
[09:08] <GibbaTheHutt> no problem if can't test it, will get someone to when alive
[09:09] <Myrtti> !give
[09:09] <GibbaTheHutt> rah think thats done it, thanks
[09:10] <Myrtti> before I remove the ban
[09:10] <GibbaTheHutt> apologies for the annoyance :)
[09:10] <Myrtti> could you explain one thing
[09:10] <Myrtti> or actually two
[09:10] <Myrtti> a) where did you get this script b) what made you run it in #ubuntu
[09:12] <GibbaTheHutt> was uberscript, and I can't remember, I think it was some feature of multiple servers that xchat didn't do (does do them I know), was a very long time ago
[09:14] <Myrtti> I hope you've learned your lesson about those scripts?
[09:16] <GibbaTheHutt> hm probably not tbh
[09:16] <Myrtti> don't run them if you don't know extensively what they do
[09:17] <Myrtti> especially on crowded channels like #ubuntu
[09:17] <GibbaTheHutt> yep, that I know, tbh I didn't realise anyone used !give
[09:17] <GibbaTheHutt> otherwise would have disabled it better in first placve
[09:18] <GibbaTheHutt> but yeah I can understand the issues with that np
[09:19] <Myrtti> you've been unbanned few minutes ago and can rejoin #ubuntu again
[09:19] <GibbaTheHutt> thanks, and sorry for taking time up :)
[09:27] <Myrtti> hmmm
[09:27] <Myrtti> http://sample.org.uk/blog/?action=post&post=firefox_security_overhaul
[09:30]  * Myrtti sets up a master password
[10:18] <EvolutionXtinct> can someone help me i can't get into #ubuntu :(
[10:18] <ikonia> one moment
[10:19] <EvolutionXtinct> np thank you
[10:19] <ikonia> elkbuntu: looks like you wher vitims of a dcc exploit
[10:19] <ikonia> elkbuntu: sorry
[10:19] <ikonia> EvolutionXtinct: looks like you where the victim of an exploit
[10:20] <EvolutionXtinct> how do i go about plugging that one!
[10:20] <ikonia> EvolutionXtinct: if you type "/topic" in the channel you have been forwarded to it should give you instructions on what to do 
[10:20] <EvolutionXtinct> no it was saying missing parameters
[10:20] <gnomefreak> EvolutionXtinct: dont use the ""
[10:21] <gnomefreak> just type /topic
[10:21] <EvolutionXtinct> i did
[10:21] <EvolutionXtinct> TOPIC Not enough parameters
[10:21] <gnomefreak> EvolutionXtinct: it works here fine
[10:22] <EvolutionXtinct> i use mIRC
[10:22] <EvolutionXtinct> not sure if that matters
[10:22] <gnomefreak> EvolutionXtinct: maybe try /t
[10:22] <gnomefreak> EvolutionXtinct: its a freenode thing AFAIK so any client should work
[10:23] <EvolutionXtinct> T Unknown command
[10:23] <EvolutionXtinct> whats the link and i'll plug the exploit :(
[10:23] <gnomefreak> ikonia: i dont see anything in topic that will direct him/her to DCC exploit info
[10:23] <gnomefreak> EvolutionXtinct: are you using lower case letters
[10:24] <EvolutionXtinct> yes
[10:24] <EvolutionXtinct> mIRC for some reason puts the output in uppercase of the command
[10:24] <ikonia> Please follow these instructions: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixDCCExploit to FIX it (yes, it can be fixed) 2) after carrying out those instructions please type « test me » and wait few  minutes | if this fails, type « /join #ubuntu-ops » to be tested manually
[10:24] <ikonia> thats from the topic in #ubuntu-read-topic
[10:24] <gnomefreak> EvolutionXtinct: you might want to ask in #freenode maybe
[10:24] <ikonia> EvolutionXtinct: please follow the instructions I have provided in #ubuntu-read-topic
[10:24] <EvolutionXtinct> ikonia thank you
[10:24] <ikonia> no problem
[10:25]  * gnomefreak goes back to look for bug
[10:26] <ikonia> EvolutionXtinct: if there's nothign else you need, you can leave the channel and follow the test instructions I gave you 
[10:27] <EvolutionXtinct> k sorry
[10:31] <elkbuntu> mirc is a dodgy bit of muck
[10:31] <ikonia> is that an official quote
[10:33] <elkbuntu> i'm tempted to say yes, but no.
[10:38] <ikonia> I'll take that as a yes then
[10:53] <elkbuntu> is the bot still wrong. re:-meeting?
[10:54] <ikonia> no idea
[11:06] <elkbuntu> seems not
[11:07] <elkbuntu> there is the rumblings of meeting in -meeting
[11:07] <Tm_T> hi hi kids
[11:10] <ikonia> elkbuntu: detail please
[11:11] <elkbuntu> CC meeting
[11:11] <ikonia> oh
[11:11] <ikonia> may stick my eyeballs open
[11:11] <elkbuntu> asia/oceania board will be pleaing to be expanded, so as we can cover the hemisphere we're charged with.
[11:12] <ikonia> the power fight begins
[11:12] <elkbuntu> not really
[11:33] <Myrtti> I swear to Gaia, one day ASUS-tek will make my head explode
[11:34] <ikonia> just remove him
[11:34] <ikonia> he adds nothing of value, and is just a pain
[11:34] <ikonia> I see no value in him being in the channel
[11:35] <Myrtti> unfortunately stupidity and denseness is not a capital crime
[11:35] <Myrtti> having said that...
[11:36] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, except he annoys the bejeebus out of more than just you
[11:36] <elkbuntu> he annoys everyone
[11:36] <Myrtti> [13:35] ~~~Irssi: Query started with ASUS-tek in window 21
[11:36] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[11:37] <Myrtti> ikonia: I have no problems with someone else removing him - I myself can't do it as he hasn't particularly broken any rules that I know of
[11:37] <Myrtti> people should be able to use ignore, anyway.
[11:38] <Myrtti> not that we are allowed to, but you know.
[11:38] <bazhang> I would have removed him long ago. icesword as well.
[11:38] <bazhang> there is endearing, and there is creepy, and that line has been breeched
[11:39] <Myrtti> the thing is, if I'd remove him, I wouldn't know how to explain it to him
[11:39] <Myrtti> I've tried to explain the social codes too many times
[11:39] <bazhang> shouldn
[11:39] <bazhang> oops
[11:39] <Myrtti> if I can't explain my actions, I don't act
[11:39] <bazhang> shouldnt be on you.
[12:23] <Myrtti> Christmas outdoor  lights ♥ 
[12:23] <Myrtti> my fingers are freezing
[12:24] <elkbuntu> heh
[12:26] <jrib> hmm, first day below freezing today
[12:26] <ikonia> was cold this morning my end too
[12:27] <jrib> i wanted to run, I wonder if I'll be up for it still
[12:27] <ikonia> bellow freezing....not for me
[12:28] <jrib> my new neighbors below me must have their heat really high as I don't have the heat on and it's still pretty warm in my place
[12:30] <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/3041015948/
[12:33] <Myrtti> !java
[12:33] <Myrtti> !info sun-java6-jre
[12:33] <Myrtti> !info openjdk-6-jre
[12:36] <Myrtti> doesn't seem to be same thing for me...
[12:36] <Myrtti> though, I'm known to be extensively wrong.
[12:37] <Pici> openjdk is open source and is in Main. sun-java-6 is not.
[12:38] <Pici> Myrtti: ^
[12:38] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, http://elkbuntu.net/i_set_up_my_xmas_tree_already.jpg
[12:39] <Myrtti> Pici: yes, but if they're not the same thing, and people *need* Sun...
[12:39] <elkbuntu> that's the e71 camera btw
[12:40] <Pici> Myrtti: Methinks that like many open source replacements for complicated proprietary apps *cough*flash*cough* it probably can't be a full replacement.
[12:40] <Myrtti> Pici: yes, and that's exactly why that proposition of joaopinto shouldn't be applied blindly.
[12:41] <Pici> Myrtti: Agreed.
[12:42]  * elkbuntu feelz ignoored.
[12:42] <Pici> elkbuntu: USB powered?
[12:42] <elkbuntu> Pici, yeah
[12:42] <Pici> NEat
[12:42] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: wooo
[12:42] <Myrtti> that's neat.
[12:42] <elkbuntu> hehe, it cost $3
[12:46] <elkbuntu> is it just me, or is spam back to its normal rate again already
[12:48] <Dave2> e-mail spam?
[12:50] <elkbuntu> ya
[12:50] <Dave2> It's just you.
[12:50] <Myrtti> Pici: it would be lovely if swfdec and/or gnash could handle vimeo etc. but as they don't, I like that the proprietary vendor does love us a bit.
[12:50] <Myrtti> from the developer blog I read that 64-bit flash is the most asked feature for Linux, and also that it was first shipped for Linux, with no set date to launch it for Windows or Mac yet.
[12:51] <Myrtti> we Linuxists are happy bunch, if we get the library, we manage to install it. Windows folks need installers.
[12:51] <elkbuntu> haha
[12:51] <Myrtti> made with InstallShield or some other junk.
[12:51] <Myrtti> *grumble*
[12:52] <Pici> Myrtti: That was nice indeed.  Its too bad that the open source alternatives cannot handle the more pervasive online applications, otherwise we'd be able to recommend them more often.
[12:52] <LjL-Temp> Myrtti: then why don't you go install VXL and manage to make OpenGazer run with it for me ;P
[12:52] <LjL-Temp> since apparently i'm not part of the happy bunch given i've been trying to get that stuff working for a month
[12:52] <jrib> too bad the 64bit crashes my browser :/
[12:53] <jrib> *flash*
[12:53] <LjL-Temp> *slow shutter speed*
[12:55] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, i think this is the nicest bright pink theme i've seen... http://www.babinokia.com/2006/12/21/pink_seaflower-by-babi/
[12:55] <LjL> oh jesus, i thought we couldn't get much lower than the ubuntu brown
[12:56] <elkbuntu> LjL, hehe
[12:56] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: http://www.pizero.net/wp-content/gallery/theme-gallery/theme3/kittys.jpg
[12:56] <LjL> also that's... violet, more than bright pink
[12:56] <Myrtti> http://www.pizero.net/theme-gallery
[12:57] <LjL> the fellow who made the theme is italian, perhaps not too surprisingly
[12:57] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, that's the cutest
[12:57] <Myrtti> O
[12:57] <Myrtti> I bet those aren't compatible with e71 though :-<
[12:58] <elkbuntu> http://www.babinokia.com/2006/12/25/207/
[13:00] <elkbuntu> http://www.babinokia.com/2006/11/26/tux-love-by-babi/ <-- awww
[13:06] <LjL> [14:05:31] <amigamia> i thought apache was just included in all distrobutions today by default?
[13:06] <LjL> is this enough evidence of drug use to kick?
[13:07] <elkbuntu> lol
[13:19] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, is zedge.net safe?
[13:19] <Myrtti> I used it with my 6623, seems to be
[13:25] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: I found few more gems for you
[13:25] <Myrtti> conversation of Nokia
[13:26] <Myrtti> what else...
[13:26] <elkbuntu> conversion of nokia?
[13:27] <Myrtti> conversation
[13:28] <elkbuntu> ah, tired, sorry
[13:28] <Myrtti> http://www.nokia.com/A4568203
[13:29] <Myrtti> also enhanced calculator (http://www.nokia.com/betalabs/calculator) or calcium (http://mtvoid.com/calcium/index.html)
[13:29] <Myrtti> joikuspot
[13:32] <elkbuntu> Download both files into same directory on your PC and install using your PC Suite <-- ehwhat?
[13:33] <LjL> jrib, or for that matter anyone: i've wondered a few times... if you just want to build a source package when you fetch it, apt-get has the "--build" option, which just builds it, without requiring anything built the build-deps afaik. on the other hand, if you want to modify and *then* build, !source mentions using dpkg-buildpackage with fakeroot, and i've seen a plethora of other possibilities mentioned
[13:33] <LjL> just what does apt-get --build do?
[13:33] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: on what app?
[13:33] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: oh
[13:33] <Myrtti> bull
[13:33] <Myrtti> I just download the jar only and install
[13:34] <jrib> LjL: beats me
[13:34] <Myrtti> oooo
[13:34] <Myrtti> new share online!
[13:34] <Myrtti> http://www.nokia.com/betalabs/shareonline
[13:34] <Myrtti> my nose starts to tickle
[13:35] <Myrtti> oh, bummer.
[13:35] <Myrtti> Share Online 4.0 beta is an update to version 3.1 that is currently shipping in several Nokia devices running S60 3rd Edition Feature Pack 2 like 6220 Classic, 5320 XpressMusic, N78, N79, N85 and N96.
[13:36] <elkbuntu> that's pre-installed on this phone
[13:37] <elkbuntu> i wasnt aware of the economic sharing option
[13:37]  * elkbuntu tries to find it
[13:37] <elkbuntu> aktually, i'll do that tomorrow
[13:37] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: share online was preinstalled on this phone too, but older version
[13:37] <elkbuntu> Tue Nov 18 13:37:47 UTC 2008
[13:38] <elkbuntu> Wed Nov 19 00:38:14 EST 2008
[13:38] <elkbuntu> too
[13:38] <elkbuntu> and i leave for work 0750 most mornings.
[13:39] <elkbuntu> ninite
[13:40] <Myrtti> nini dear
[13:40] <Pici> Goodnight!
[13:41] <Myrtti> woo
[13:41] <Myrtti> Nokia Audiobook manager works in wine
[14:08] <ikonia> elkbuntu: what are you syning your calander against
[14:08] <ikonia> syncing
[14:08] <ikonia> oh, shes gone to bed
[14:09] <Myrtti> I guess I should share my syncml settings
[14:10] <ikonia> what do you sync against
[14:10] <Myrtti> I've got a cronjob that syncs my calendar to google three times a day and makes a backup of contacts, calendar and notes to the server once a week
[14:10] <ikonia> that would work
[14:10] <ikonia> maybe
[14:11] <ikonia> Myrtti: what is your desktop calander applications ?
[14:11] <Myrtti> orage, I don't use it for anything else than viewing the entries
[14:12] <Myrtti> all editing in phone and/or gcal
[14:12] <ikonia> Hmm I use sunbird, 
[14:12] <ikonia> research research research
[14:12] <Myrtti> I'll blog about that anyway
[14:12] <Myrtti> you might get some pointers
[14:13] <ikonia> please do
[14:47] <Myrtti> COFFEE
[14:47] <Myrtti> coffee is the word.
[14:47] <Myrtti> yes.
[14:48] <Pici> mum is the word
[14:49] <ikonia> greese is the word
[15:05] <Myrtti> is there a way to niftily check which ... oh, nvm.
[15:05] <Myrtti> synaptic
[15:05] <Pici> yes
[15:06] <Myrtti> doh
[15:06] <Myrtti> I don't have synaptic on my server
[15:06] <Myrtti> is there a nifty way to check on command line / aptitude which software are installed from repository foo?
[15:07] <Pici> hmm
[15:07] <Myrtti> I've got a PPA that I know I've installed software from
[15:08] <Myrtti> but I'm not sure what
[15:08] <LjL> Myrtti: aptitude can tell you the origin, but that's not the same as the repository
[15:08]  * Myrtti checks
[15:08] <LjL> Myrtti: but if you still have the repository in your sources.list, then it's relatively easy to do
[15:08] <Pici> apt-cache policy does though
[15:09] <LjL> Pici: not if the repository is not there anymore
[15:09] <Pici> LjL: Are you sure?
[15:09] <LjL> Pici: quite
[15:09] <Myrtti> well it is in sources.list.d/multisync.list ...
[15:09] <Pici> LjL: Okay then
[15:09] <Myrtti> but
[15:09] <LjL> Myrtti: then apt-cache policy will do it
[15:10] <Myrtti> so there's a reverse for apt-cache policy <package>?
[15:10] <Myrtti> apt-cache policy <repository> or something?
[15:10] <LjL> Myrtti: moment
[15:10] <LjL> Myrtti: dpkg -l | grep "^ii" | awk ' { print $2 } ' | xargs -n 1 apt-cache policy | grep -B 5 repositoryname
[15:10] <Myrtti> oo
[15:11] <LjL> will take a while
[15:15] <LjL> Myrtti: actually make that "-n 1" some larger number, it'll speed it up considerably
[15:16] <LjL> 500 works here
[15:22] <Myrtti> oh my gawd.
[15:22] <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/3041299422/sizes/l/
[15:22] <Myrtti> I feel almost like a pro photographer even with my crappy N95
[15:28] <jdong> Myrtti: the N95 isn't "crappy" when it comes to photography... for a phone camera it has one of the best cams I've seen to date.
[15:28] <jdong> not to mention that level of quality 5 years ago was considered a premium-model digital camera :D
[15:30] <Myrtti> those pictures that I just took make me cry. I wouldn't have thought having spent three years in arts/crafts evening classes would have had this much effect. But I bet not that many know how to take pictures of that quality in pitch black with a goddamn N95
[15:30] <Myrtti> I know the settings and know what they mean.
[15:31] <Myrtti> and I can also use them, not just point and click with automated pointandclick settings.
[15:31] <Myrtti> was it three... or four...
[15:31] <Myrtti> hm
[15:36] <Myrtti> looking at that output it looks as if only msync-tools is installed from a ppa
[15:39] <Myrtti> ikonia: http://ping.fm/I5WZ0
[15:39] <Myrtti> cutekeys is also on the buzz
[15:40] <Myrtti> http://gerrymoth.jaiku.com/presence/49157084
[15:40] <Myrtti> I just love Jaiku, have I mentioned that before?
[15:41] <Myrtti> I have.
[15:53] <ikonia> Myrtti: reading.....
[15:54] <Myrtti> Network Timeout
[15:54] <Myrtti> The server at jaiku.com is taking too long to respond.
[15:54] <Myrtti> bwah.
[16:11] <fde> Why does ubottu's sound factoid still recommend ALSA usage? It should recommend how to fix pulse, not to replace it with alsa itself...
[16:12] <fde> (it should basically redirect to the pulseaudio factoid or be replaced outright with the pulseaudio one imo)
[16:14] <Myrtti> !sound
[16:15] <fde> I don't think that is valid for any supported version of Ubuntu other than the first LTS
[16:15] <Myrtti> a) there's xubuntu and kubuntu that don't use pulseaudio
[16:15] <Myrtti> b) alsa does still work together with pulseaudio
[16:16] <fde> Myrtti: Kubuntu uses phonon now, which via its backend should be using pulse... and xubuntu should be using pulse too
[16:16] <jdong> "alsa" outputs to a virtual pulse device by default anyway.
[16:16] <jdong> fde: no, phonon directly uses alsa by default.
[16:16] <jdong> configuring it to use a pulse backend requires manual XSession.d editing and control center changes
[16:17] <jdong> [citation-needed] on xubuntu using pulse, too.
[16:17] <fde> jdong: well then that is poor design, the suse guys for instance have it use esd by default instead...
[16:17] <Myrtti> I'm using xubuntu
[16:17] <Myrtti> it doesn't use pulse
[16:17] <Myrtti> I'd scream if it would
[16:17] <jdong> when the Xsession script for pulse tests for gnome-session in $STARTUP.... :)
[16:17] <fde> pulse is suffering because too many apps aren't designed to use it... it is technically sound
[16:18] <fde> umm... strong?
[16:18] <jdong> alsa output goes through pulse anyway, what's the big deal?
[16:18] <Myrtti> fde: are this your opinions or something agreed by the ubuntu devs as a whole?
[16:18] <jdong> and pulse is still not perfect in that regard :)
[16:18] <Myrtti> s/this/these/
[16:18] <jdong> there's plenty of realtime scheduling/buffering issues, various random deaths of the daemon caused by certain types of ALSA virtual output...
[16:18] <fde> jdong: the dmix stuff in the factoid certainly is wrong if that is true... dmix is turned off by default because of pulse feature overlap
[16:19] <jdong> fde: only when pulse is installed.
[16:19] <fde> Myrtti: well, considering everyone is moving to pulse, I'd say its developer consensus... certainly for gnome
[16:20] <Myrtti> which still leaves xfce/kde/cli out of the deal.
[16:20] <Myrtti> and other solutions
[16:20] <jdong> and pulse sound mixing is still configured through the ALSA mixer API.
[16:21] <Myrtti> {{citation needed, desperately}} before editing the factoid
[16:21] <jdong> fundamentally it's the help.ubuntu.com docs that need refreshing to mention pulse-based sound issues.
[16:22] <fde> Myrtti: there are technical reasons for using something like pulse... dmix was considered to be sadly lacking for lower end cards, and lacks the real time functionality of pulse for high end cards too
[16:22] <Myrtti> fde: that is not the issue
[16:23] <fde> Myrtti: My issue is that the factoid is outdated... due to those reasons... and thus should be changed to reflect current status.
[16:23] <Myrtti> the issue is that the factoid is staying as it is until you can prove the authoritive references to why it should be changed. I'm not convinced there is a developer consensus on the matter in GNOME, Ubuntu or the KDE/XFCE communities.
[16:24] <Myrtti> s/you/anyone/
[16:24]  * jdong agrees.
[16:24] <jdong> additionally, it's the linked help.ubuntu.com docs that are out of date, not the factoid
[16:24] <jdong> this is a Doc Team issue
[16:25] <Myrtti> I don't know about the dmix stuff, I guess that can be removed *if* we can find reference what you are suggesting about it is true.
[16:25] <Myrtti> but as for now, we play by "even outdated, but still confirmed and good data is better than blindly editing in new data without references."
[16:26] <fde> Myrtti: http://live.gnome.org/PulseAudio  reflects some of the work to make pulse part of gnome... it states that PulseAudio was preferred for downstream since 2.18
[16:26] <Myrtti> fde: and still, that applies only for Gnome.
[16:26] <jdong> Myrtti: well the dmix is probably the more questionable of anything in that mix. I don't think it's a good idea to go manually tooling around in the alsa configs outside Ubuntu documentation.
[16:26] <jdong> can we spawn crimsun in here for a definitive answer? :)
[16:26] <Myrtti> jdong: I agree.
[16:27] <Myrtti> 1summon crimsun
[16:27] <fde> Myrtti: KDE its phonon ... so it should at least specify different solutions for each desktop... 
[16:27] <jdong> phonon is an API wrapper.
[16:27] <Myrtti> [18:27] [freenode] ~~~crimsun is away: train
[16:27] <jdong> aww.
[16:28] <fde> jdong: yes, and it can use pulse or anything else... but it is the direct backend that apps talk to....
[16:28] <jdong> fde: I think the Sound page in help.u.c should specify the cases for each desktop environemnt.
[16:28] <jdong> not the factoid.
[16:28] <jdong> there's only so many words you can fit into it.
[16:28] <Myrtti> find the fault in the part "it can use pulse or anything else"
[16:28] <fde> jdong: can you at least agree that the dmix stuff should be removed from the faq? it is outdated...
[16:29] <jdong> I will agree with that. The dmix stuff probably doesn't belong in there
[16:29] <jdong> messing with dmix by oneself is generally a bad idea and will lead to more support headaches in the future.
[16:30] <fde> Myrtti: can and has plugins for aren't the same thing?  xine and gstreamer can both use pulse too though, which are the plugins I see for phonon right now
[16:30] <jdong> the rest of the stuff, I will concur with you that the linked documentation is outdated and fails to mention the layer(s) above ALSA at all.
[16:30] <jdong> but that is a problem to address with the Doc team and the wiki
[16:31] <jdong> if there's other wiki pages that need to be merged with the Sound and Sound/Troubleshooting pages, then help coordinate that effort. I think the factoid linking to the Sound page is appropriate.
[16:32] <fde> jdong: its primary use is more directed at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting anyways, but even that page is out-dated, not to mention rather complicated
[16:32] <jdong> fde: well a lot of SoundTroubleshooting deals with driver/kernel-layer difficulties which are a necessary evil.
[16:33] <jdong> maybe you haven't had many problems at that layer, but that is not characteritic of those having sound problems in gneeral
[16:33] <fde> jdong: I can agree with that, although all of the pages I'm looking at don't really cover what should be read by users....
[16:33] <jdong> fde: well can you find something more appropriate on the wiki, or organize an effort to write such a usable page?
[16:34] <jdong> fde: IMO the meat of factoid content should be in a wiki that can be community-maintained
[16:34] <fde> jdong: Not sure I'm the person to organize that though... what would an appropriate mailing list be to bring it up? I don't think there is an ubuntu-wiki mailing list?
[16:34] <Pici> There should be one for the documentation team
[16:34]  * Myrtti huggles Pici
[16:35] <fde> Pici: Makes sense... I'll get on that... 
[16:35] <jdong> fde: thanks
[16:35] <Pici> fde: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
[16:35] <Pici> fde: #ubuntu-doc too (or is it docs?)
[16:36] <fde> (most distros, the doc stuff more relates to <that doc format I can't remember the name for>, which is kinda over my head)
[16:54] <fde> e-mail sent... lets see where that goes
[17:21] <Myrtti> fixxxer: you've managed to null and void the warranty you didn't have at first place by installing Ubuntu Ultimate.
[17:22]  * Pici blehs
[17:23] <Myrtti> killkillkill, diediedie
[17:37] <Jack_Sparrow> Myrtti How are you and those rodents doing
[17:38] <Myrtti> fine and dandy :-D
[17:38] <Jack_Sparrow> Glad to hear it...
[17:39] <Jack_Sparrow> I have the whole morning to myself and nothing to do but go walk the dog around the entire lake.  
[17:44] <Tm_T> Myrtti: why you talk here to someone who isn't here?
[17:44] <Myrtti> Tm_T: because I'm too nice to say that to him straight in the face at #ubuntu
[17:50] <Flannel> !test
[17:50] <Flannel> Hmmm
[17:50] <Flannel> ubottu is ignoring me?
[17:51] <Flannel> Odd that he replied inside out
[17:57] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I see
[18:02] <mewshi> hi
[18:03] <mewshi> Why am I banned in the main channel?
[18:03] <Daviey> @btlogin
[18:04] <mewshi> Can someone please tell me why I'm banned in #ubuntu?
[18:04] <Daviey> bot busted?
[18:04] <LjL> !test
[18:05] <Daviey> @whoami
[18:05] <mewshi> What do you mean?  I'm not a bot, haven't done anything to anger a bot.  Is it because of the IP address I'm on?
[18:06] <Daviey> mewshi: no, i mean the bot seems to be playing up
[18:06] <Myrtti> @bansearch *!*@203.160.1.71
[18:06] <Flannel> Daviey: Its just slow
[18:06] <Daviey> Flannel: oh
[18:06]  * Myrtti pokes LjL 
[18:07] <mewshi> That can't have been me
[18:07] <mewshi> because I didn't even start here until Saturday night
[18:07] <mewshi> which was the 15th
[18:10] <LjL> one moment
[18:11] <LjL> mewshi: is your computer or router shared with other people?
[18:12] <mewshi> it's a proxy -_-
[18:12]  * mewshi is getting really frustrated
[18:12] <LjL> that would explain it then
[18:12] <Tm_T> aww
[18:12] <LjL> unfortunately, we don't allow open proxy users to join
[18:13] <LjL> because they are often abused
[18:13] <LjL> and the particular host you're using was, indeed, abused
[18:13] <mewshi> Damn -_-
[18:13] <Myrtti> mewshi: you could apply for an unaffiliated cloak at #freenode...
[18:13] <mewshi> Well, how can I fix it?
[18:13] <mewshi> a what? o.o
[18:14] <mewshi> what the hell is that?
[18:14] <Myrtti> [20:14] [freenode] ~~~bazhang [n=bazhang@unaffiliated/bazhang]
[18:14] <Myrtti> [20:14] [freenode] ~~~ ircname  : B. A. Zhang
[18:14] <LjL> mewshi: do keep in mind that open proxies are not really allowed on freenode to begin with
[18:14] <Myrtti> (sorry bazhang)
[18:14] <mewshi> Well, then... what can I do?
[18:15] <mewshi> I need some sort of proxy, unless there's a way I can connect from here without one...
[18:15] <LjL> mewshi: can't you just connect from your normal host?
[18:15] <mewshi> no, because the damn library blocks IRC
[18:15] <mewshi> Is there another way around it?
[18:16] <LjL> mewshi: try connecting to port 8000, 8001 or 8002
[18:17] <Myrtti> moin genii
[18:18] <genii> Myrtti: Moin :)
[18:18] <genii> And hello to all
[18:18] <Pici> Hallo
[18:25] <mewshi> Ok.  Well then.  That's useless.
[18:25] <mewshi> What now, gentlemen?
[18:28] <mewshi> Are there any ways I can actually get on IRC with this??
[18:28] <LjL> mewshi: yes, you can the way you just have
[18:28] <mewshi> I hate using web clients
[18:28] <LjL> i'm sorry.
[18:28] <mewshi> Isn't there *some* way I can get around this?
[18:29] <LjL> ask the sysadmins to open the ports required for IRC
[18:29] <mewshi> That's what I'm doing right now...
[18:29] <LjL> or get a cloak
[18:29] <LjL> although as i said, freenode might prevent that proxy from connecting without further notice...
[18:30] <LjL> but actually, no, not even a cloak will work
[18:30] <Pici> Why won't mibbit work for him now?
[18:30] <LjL> Pici: it does, he just doesn't like using it
[18:30] <Myrtti> !search clone
[18:30] <Myrtti> !clone
[18:31] <Pici> Myrtti: Indeed. !clone is better that that
[18:31] <Pici> LjL: Then I don't see a problem.
[18:31] <Myrtti> ubottu: tell fde about clone
[18:31] <LjL> Myrtti: i don't think "tell" works, didn't last time i used it
[18:31] <Myrtti> ubottu: tell Myrtti about clone
[18:31] <Myrtti> LjL: works now
[18:32] <LjL> Myrtti: have you checked the actual message it sent you? (also, it might work just because you're doing it to yourself, try sending it to me)
[18:32] <Myrtti> ubottu: tell LjL about clone
[18:32] <Myrtti> Pici: works
[18:32] <LjL> uhm, that's kind of weird. look at what i got
[18:32] <LjL> [19:32:34] <ubottu> Myrtti wants me to tell you: about clone
[18:33] <LjL> [19:32:37] <ubottu> <Myrtti> wants you to know: To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type « dpkg --get-selections > ~/my-packages », move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type « sudo dpkg --set-selections < my-packages && sudo apt-get dselect-upgrade » - See also !automate
[18:33] <LjL> last time i tried, i'd only get the first of those
[18:33] <Pici> !help tell
[18:33] <mewshi> so, unless I get the ports unblocked for "academic purposes" or I use a web client, I'm totally boned?
[18:33] <Myrtti> [20:33] <fde> I know about clone - however I would like to also have the aptitude  method in ubottu, if I didn't know about the clone factoid, I would have  just named the aptitudeclone request clone  ;)
[18:33] <Pici> @help tell
[18:33] <Myrtti> like, errrr
[18:33] <Myrtti> WHY?!?!?
[18:33] <LjL> mewshi: another option is using a tunnel to your own machine
[18:34] <mewshi> a tunnel?
[18:34] <LjL> mewshi: yes, you can put a proxy server on your own machine - that's not an open proxy, so it's fine to use.
[18:34] <LjL> !info bip
[18:34] <Pici> Myrtti: Because apt-get and aptitude  are completely different! </sarcasm>
[18:34] <Myrtti> Pici: mind explaining that to *him*?
[18:35] <mewshi> So, do I just apt-get install bip?  And then what?
[18:35] <LjL> Myrtti, Pici: that cloning method actually has a flaw
[18:35] <Myrtti> LjL: which
[18:35] <Pici> LjL: Which?
[18:35] <LjL> mewshi: "bip" is just one, there are several others, do "apt-cache search irc proxy" or "irc bouncer" (or for that matter, "http proxy"). you install it, you configure it to run on a port that your library allows (like 80), and then you connect to it
[18:36] <LjL> Myrtti, Pici: unless i'm mistaken, it won't remember which packages were installed manually and which ones were installed automatically, so it'll break the "autoremove" feature of apt-get, and aptitude. i don't know what "the aptitude method" is, but if there is one, it'd probably get around that since aptitude was designed with that sort of dependency handling in mind
[18:37] <Myrtti> mind explaining that to him?
[18:37] <LjL> Myrtti: well, that'd make him right ;)
[18:37] <Myrtti> I don't like his suggestion, because it is a bit arbitrary in comparison to the dselect-upgrade
[18:38] <mewshi> ok, well, I may need some more help...
[18:38] <LjL> what's his suggestion, i think i missed part of this
[18:39] <mewshi> what's a good HTTP proxy?
[18:39] <LjL> Myrtti: ah sorry seen it. yes, his suggestion is intended to get the autoremove stuff right
[18:39] <LjL> mewshi, i gave you some pointers, now please ask in #Ubuntu
[18:40] <LjL> Myrtti: why do you call it arbitrary anyway?
[18:41] <Myrtti> LjL: a) I've never seen that used before b) it relies on other commands and search parameters not explained nor obvious
[18:42] <LjL> Myrtti: the only actual difference is that aptitude is used instead of "dpkg --get-selections". the rest can, in all likelihood, be done exactly the same way
[18:42] <LjL> aptitude search -F '%100p' '~i!~M' means "search for all installed packages that were not installed automatically, and print the package name only"
[18:42] <LjL> i can probably make that a bit more understandable in form
[18:43]  * Myrtti feels a sudden urge to file a bug to aptitude: "please fix these parameters to something more legible and make them a single parameter, like --get-selections"
[18:43] <LjL> Myrtti: they don't have to fix them, it's just the way he used them.
[18:44] <Myrtti> in the way he used it I wouldn't ever dare to try it, it looks Greek to me, akin to forkbombs.
[18:45] <Myrtti> which is what I suspect even less knowledgeable would feel
[18:45] <Myrtti> demanding explanation.
[18:46] <LjL> Myrtti: how about   aptitude --display-format '%p' '?installed!?automatic'
[18:46] <mewshi> So, they're telling me I can't run the proxy from here...
[18:46] <ikonia> thats right
[18:46] <LjL> no, in fact i said *on your own machine*
[18:46] <Myrtti> LjL: better
[18:46] <Myrtti> lots better
[18:46] <mewshi> ...
[18:46] <mewshi> Sigh...
[18:47] <Myrtti> I'm almost feeling like throwing up. BRB.
[18:50] <ikonia> !idle | mewshi 
[18:50] <fde> Is there a way to check whether your ubottu factoid request is going to be applied or what is going on with it?
[18:51] <fde> I've had several requests in the past, and I don't think any have ever been applied, I've even bypassed a few and changed the pages they direct to so as to ensure correctness....
[18:52] <fde> (pinning wiki pages for instance, which ubottu was flat out wrong about)
[18:54] <ikonia> mewshi: if there is nothing else you need from this channel, pleae check the topic for idle policy
[18:54] <LjL> !-cloning
[18:54] <LjL> !no cloning is <reply> To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type « aptitude --disable-columns --display-format '%p' search '?installed!?automatic' > ~/my-packages », move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type « sudo dpkg --set-selections < my-packages && sudo apt-get dselect-upgrade » - See also !automate
[18:54] <LjL> Myrtti: ^
[18:54] <fde> LjL: my request was related to the aptitude alternative to that request
[18:54] <Myrtti> !cloning
[18:54] <fde> s/request/factoid/
[18:54] <LjL> fde: and in fact, you can see i'm using aptitude above
[18:55] <Myrtti> fde: if you wait a few minutes, you can see we've been having an extensive discussion about your factoid here
[18:55] <LjL> for storing the packages selection i'm using aptitude
[18:55] <Myrtti> in a few minutes the channel logs are flushed to irclogs.ubuntu.com 
[18:55] <LjL> for retrieving them, i think using xargs is a bit of a hack
[18:55] <fde> LjL: ahh, true... both are valid though... I just prefer using aptitude as it keeps track of that stuff... ime the dpkg --get-selections method ends up having aptitude try to remove everything...
[18:55] <LjL> and i believe dpkg --get-selections should work fine
[18:56] <LjL> fde, it tries to remove everything?
[18:56] <fde> Myrtti: wasn't aware as you're not supposed to idle in here, sorry
[18:57] <Myrtti> fde: which is why I told you the logs :-)
[18:57] <fde> LjL: yes, because none of it was explicitly installed, dpkg just replaces the selections
[18:57] <LjL> fde: i understand that using aptitude with !~M~i allows to only list manually installed packages, which is a good thing... but i'm not sure why would aptitude *remove* stuff if that's not done?
[18:57] <fde> Myrtti: I didn't see that, my bad
[18:57] <LjL> fde: and when it replaces it, they aren't marked as manually installed by default?
[18:58] <LjL> fde: still, that doesn't happen with apt-get, does it? and apt-get, too, has a knowledge of what packages were automatically installed
[18:58] <LjL> which afaik should "in theory" be the same as aptitude's
[18:58] <fde> LjL: I don't understand why either honestly, but that is why I don't use the dpkg --set-selections method... it is likely a bug, but I've never followed through on filing it.
[18:58] <fde> LjL: never tried with apt-get since the autoremove functionality was put in... 
[18:59] <LjL> fde: well, we should. i've seen people before complaining that aptitude was "removing random packages" and never could quite understand why
[18:59] <LjL> let me test
[19:00] <fde> LjL: in most cases, its because nothing now depends on it... but for some reason --get-selections seemed to think none were installed explicitely.
[19:01] <LjL> fde: right, but those people seemed to be saying it removes way more than that
[19:01] <LjL> i *was* indeed suspicious of their claims
[19:01] <LjL> but this might be an explanation for them
[19:01] <fde> LjL: if you have a test box, for instance removing ubuntu-desktop would probably remove everything that it depends on too...
[19:01] <LjL> yes, that i know
[19:02] <fde> LjL: same deal though with --get-selections and then using aptitude ... except ubuntu-desktop was also not explicitely installed... so everything goes anyway  :(
[19:03] <LjL> fde: i'm not sure. i'll tell you what i just tried
[19:03] <LjL> fde: echo sdf install | sudo dpkg --set-selections
[19:03] <LjL> (yes, there is an "sdf" package)
[19:03] <LjL> sudo apt-get dselect-upgrade
[19:03] <LjL> (the package was installed)
[19:04] <LjL> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[19:04] <LjL> (apt-get mentioned no automatically installed packages)
[19:04] <LjL> sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
[19:04] <ikonia> when did ubottu start treating | as > 
[19:04] <LjL> (aptitude mentioned a couple of automatically installed packages, but not "sdf")
[19:04] <LjL> ikonia: since people started sending | messages to themselves
[19:04] <ikonia> LjL: so it only works with peoples sesnding it to themselves, not others
[19:05] <LjL> ikonia: yes
[19:05] <fde> LjL: maybe it changed then, I still don't trust the dpkg method though because of that
[19:05] <ikonia> has that been in there long, I've not noticed it
[19:05] <LjL> ikonia: it also tells them "in the future, please use a PM to investigate"
[19:05] <Pici> ikonia: Its been there for a while
[19:05] <LjL> fde, it's still "not right" that there is a difference between what apt-get tells me and what aptitude tells me
[19:05] <LjL> aptitude says
[19:05] <LjL> The following packages are unused and will be REMOVED:
[19:05] <LjL>   epiphany-data libakonadiprivate0 libdlna0 libmozjs0d libneon27-gnutls libtagc0 libtifiles0 libtifiles0-dev libupnp2 libusb-dev mediatomb-common
[19:05] <LjL> apt-get says none of that
[19:06] <fde> LjL: they'll be listed if you apt-get -s autoremove
[19:06] <LjL> ah wait no...
[19:06] <ikonia> Pici: I've just blind
[19:06] <LjL> right, right
[19:06] <LjL> fde: still, no "sdf" listed
[19:06] <Myrtti> fde: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/18/%23ubuntu-ops.txt, search for [18:28]
[19:07] <LjL> fde: alright, i'll just switch to the aptitude method entirely in case the problem you mentioned happens with some older supported releases
[19:08] <fde> LjL: yup, so they fixed that it seems, or maybe I just did something wrong, idk... but I would still appreciate it being added at least as aptitudeclone for future reference, then keep the old one as clone
[19:08] <LjL> (although i really dislike the xarg thing, bleah)
[19:08] <fde> LjL: sounds good also  :)
[19:08] <fde> LjL: if you can think of another way to do it, feel free to change that, but it works like that
[19:09] <LjL> !no cloning is <reply> To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type « aptitude --disable-columns --display-format '%p' search '?installed!?automatic' > ~/my-packages », move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type « sudo xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < my_packages ; sudo aptitude install » - See also !automate
[19:09] <fde> LjL: thanks a lot!
[19:09] <LjL> !cloning ~= s/_/-/
[19:12] <Daviey> seems long winded..  dpkg --get-selections > ~/my-packages
[19:13] <LjL> Daviey: err...
[19:13] <Myrtti> Daviey: read the backlog, dear
[19:13] <LjL> that's what we discussed for half an hour :)
[19:13] <Daviey> oh
[19:13] <Myrtti> LjL: 45mins
[19:13] <LjL> right
[19:14] <LjL> now to go over the other factoids that fde submitted, and were indeed ignore
[19:14] <LjL> [12:41] <fde> I'm unsure whether this is the right place, or if #ubuntu-irc is more appropriate, but could someone please change the bot's 'sound' factoid to reflect pulseaudio changes...
[19:14] <LjL> [12:42] <fde> Currently it states to set it to ALSA only, but there is no dmix anymore, so that isn't what the user wants in any case.
[19:14] <LjL> [12:46] <fde> ubottu: no sound is If you're having problems with sound, first ensure PulseAudio is selected in System > Preferences > Sound, if that fails, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting - http://alsa.opensrc.org/DmixPlugin - For playing audio files, see !Players and !MP3
[19:14] <LjL> !sound
[19:15] <Myrtti> the pulseaudio addition is just WRONG.
[19:15] <Pici> Myrtti was concerned that this didn't make reference to Xubuntu and Kubuntu
[19:15] <LjL> Pici: neither does the current one
[19:15] <Pici> LjL: Indeed
[19:15] <LjL> also
[19:15] <LjL> !sound-#kubuntu
[19:15] <ikonia> @bansearch dhiraj
[19:16] <LjL> Myrtti: why is the pulseaudio thing wrong
[19:16] <LjL> (perhaps we should invite him back?)
[19:17] <Myrtti> in my experience, even if you have pulseaudio, problems can be fixed with fixing alsa settings.
[19:18] <Myrtti> YMMV
[19:19] <Myrtti> anyway, I'm getting a headache from extensive thinking
[19:19] <ikonia> dumb it down then
[19:19] <Myrtti> and I need to finish this blog entry
[19:22] <LjL> Myrtti, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should select ALSA, and not PulseAudio, in the sound preferences
[19:22] <LjL> i'm not a gnome user, mind, i'm just going by common sense
[19:22] <LjL> anyway i'm off for dinner myself
[19:23]  * Myrtti prods Pici as the factoid wrangler and $someone_else as the GNOME audio expert
[19:23] <Myrtti> I don't use GNOME myself anymore, either
[19:24] <Pici> I'm bad at sound issues
[19:24] <Myrtti> Pici: which is why I prodded $someone_else
[19:24] <Pici> Myrtti: Thanks
[19:25] <Myrtti> HOXHOX PEOPLE, YES YOU. If you feel you can wrangle audio issues in GNOME Hardy/Intrepid, give Pici a hand to write a factoid.
[19:28] <Pici> ikonia: fixed
[19:29] <ikonia> sorry darn lag middle of conneciton
[19:29] <ikonia> Pici: drinks on me
[19:31] <ikonia> can someone stick ban on n=dhiraj@89.211.209.131 in #ubuntu please, I'm lagging and don't wwant to kill the channel
[19:32] <Pici> ikonia: Like I said, I fixed it.
[19:32] <ikonia> ahhh you fixed tha, thank you
[19:32] <ikonia> sorry, thought you just fixed the mute
[19:32] <ikonia> 2 drinks to Pici 
[19:32] <Pici> ikonia: You didn't mute anyone.
[19:33] <ikonia> oh, I thought I muted the channel
[19:33] <ikonia> Pici: 3 drinks
[19:33] <Pici> woo
[19:33] <Myrtti> Pici: hello
[19:33] <Myrtti> ähg
[19:33] <Pici> Myrtti: Hi
[19:33] <Myrtti> PiercedWolf: hello
[19:33] <ikonia> I was lagging and couldn't see anything
[19:33] <PiercedWolf> hello Myrtti 
[19:33] <Pici> ikonia: I figured as much
[19:34] <ikonia> 4 drinks
[19:34] <PiercedWolf> anyone knows bout bouncers?
[19:37] <Myrtti> PiercedWolf: sure, but what that has to do with the topic of this channel?
[19:37] <nalioth> PiercedWolf: can we help you?
[19:38] <PiercedWolf> which channel then?
[19:38] <PiercedWolf> i want to get inside a chat
[19:38] <nalioth> which channel what?
[19:38] <PiercedWolf> spanish network
[19:38] <PiercedWolf> terra
[19:38] <PiercedWolf> u need to send raw xml node
[19:38] <PiercedWolf> and only can be done with bouncer and scripting
[19:38] <nalioth> PiercedWolf: why are you here?
[19:39] <PiercedWolf> uhm
[19:39] <PiercedWolf> i always get in here
[19:39] <PiercedWolf> and 7 other channels
[19:39] <ikonia> !give ikonia a treat
[19:39] <PiercedWolf> im programmer
[19:39] <nalioth> PiercedWolf: not this one, i'm afraid
[19:39] <PiercedWolf> ok then thx anyway
[19:39] <ikonia> PiercedWolf: you where using an auto respond script in #ubuntu 
[19:40] <PiercedWolf> is disabled right now
[19:40] <PiercedWolf> why?
[19:40] <ikonia> it was causing disruption in #ubuntu 
[19:40] <PiercedWolf> um
[19:40] <PiercedWolf> what happened?
[19:40] <ikonia> auto respond / bot scripts aren't really allowed
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> why r u saying this to me?
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> r u oper from ubuntu channel?
[19:41] <ikonia> because you where running the script
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> auch
[19:41] <ikonia> I forwarded you to this channel
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> were
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> not where
[19:41] <Pici> PiercedWolf: This is the operators channel of #ubuntu, #ubuntu-ops.
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> my eyes hurts
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> ah ok
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> so whats up then?
[19:41] <PiercedWolf> whats the matter?
[19:42] <ikonia> errr...nothing, this is the first time you have come in scince you where running the script
[19:42] <Myrtti> which script was this
[19:42] <PiercedWolf> uhm
[19:42] <Myrtti> the give one?
[19:42] <PiercedWolf> im a busy dude
[19:42] <PiercedWolf> sometimes i dont look at script
[19:42] <Myrtti> PiercedWolf: well you're not getting into #ubuntu
[19:42] <PiercedWolf> anything else?
[19:42] <Myrtti> we're busy too. anything else?
[19:43] <Myrtti> >___<
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> i was only asking
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> seemed like u were looking for trouble
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> i cant do anything else
[19:43] <Myrtti> errrr
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> script is off
[19:43] <Myrtti> you could disable the script
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> and things r done right now
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> ok
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> done
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> give
[19:43] <PiercedWolf> see?
[19:44] <Myrtti> !give a carrot to Pici
[19:44] <Myrtti> so it seems
[19:44] <PiercedWolf> and one last thing
[19:44] <ikonia> apologies lost connection
[19:44] <PiercedWolf> ikonia, plz
[19:45] <PiercedWolf> use were instead where
[19:45] <PiercedWolf> when u try to say circumstancial
[19:45] <PiercedWolf> :)
[19:45] <ikonia> U
[19:45] <ikonia> U R telling me about gramma
[19:45] <PiercedWolf> i get confused sometimes
[19:45] <PiercedWolf> yeah mine is horrible too
[19:46] <ikonia> when your typing perfect may be better to give out lessons then
[19:46] <PiercedWolf> xD
[19:46] <ikonia> did someoen remove the ban for you while I was away
[19:46] <PiercedWolf> uhm
[19:46] <PiercedWolf> erm... sorry
[19:46] <PiercedWolf> ?¿
[19:47] <ikonia> could someoen remove the ban please as I do'nt trust my connection
[19:47] <PiercedWolf> uhm
[19:47] <ikonia> as you can see lag
[19:47] <PiercedWolf> remove it another day
[19:47] <PiercedWolf> i dont care bout ubuntu channel
[19:47] <ikonia> then why did you come asking to get in 
[19:47] <PiercedWolf> i m little more worried bout php and python ones
[19:47] <PiercedWolf> ?¿
[19:47] <PiercedWolf> i asked to get in? xD
[19:47] <PiercedWolf> when?
[19:48] <Myrtti> basically by entering here, you did
[19:48] <PiercedWolf> entering?
[19:48] <PiercedWolf> i dunno
[19:48] <PiercedWolf> autjoin maybe
[19:48] <ikonia> 19:38 < PiercedWolf> i want to get inside a chat
[19:48] <Daviey> I suspect he autojoined #ubuntu and was forwarded here
[19:48] <PiercedWolf> ow
[19:48] <PiercedWolf> a chat
[19:48] <ikonia> yes, I thought he wanted to get back into #ubuntu
[19:48] <PiercedWolf> in spanish network
[19:48] <PiercedWolf> not freenode
[19:48] <PiercedWolf> using a bouncer
[19:49] <PiercedWolf> irc.terra.es
[19:49] <ikonia> oh, well your on freenode so I suggest you change servers
[19:49] <PiercedWolf> i guess u dont catch my quiz
[19:49] <PiercedWolf> sorry
[19:50] <PiercedWolf> nevermind
[19:50] <PiercedWolf> thx anyway
[19:50] <PiercedWolf> c ya
[19:50] <ikonia> bye
[19:52] <ikonia> PiercedWolf: anything else ?
[19:52] <PiercedWolf> ?¡
[19:52] <PiercedWolf> no
[19:52] <PiercedWolf> why=
[19:52] <genii> /back
[19:52] <ikonia> your still here
[19:52] <PiercedWolf> uhm
[19:52] <genii> bah
[19:53] <PiercedWolf> r u kicking me from channel?
[19:53] <PiercedWolf> ah ok
[19:53] <PiercedWolf> i get it
[19:53] <ikonia> was that just a language barrier problem ?
[19:54] <nalioth> ikonia: there may have been a social difference, too
[20:22] <Myrtti> (10:21:54 PM) Myrtti: I'm on my road to perdition
[20:22] <Myrtti> (10:22:18 PM) Myrtti: I registered an Etsy account "just because my nick wasn't yet taken and I wanted to keep it to myself"
[20:23] <Myrtti> bad Myrtti, bad.
[20:24] <Tm_T> awww
[20:24] <Tm_T> Etsy?
[20:25] <Myrtti> "your place to buy and sell everything handmade"
[20:26] <Myrtti> s/everything/all things/
[20:26] <Tm_T> ok
[20:28] <Myrtti> http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?ref=cat1_gallery_20&listing_id=448611 or...
[20:28] <Myrtti> http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?ref=cat1_gallery_17&listing_id=17491225
[20:28] <Myrtti> or http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=9925455
[20:29] <Myrtti> ;__;
[20:29] <Pici> oo
[20:30] <Myrtti> see?!
[20:30] <Myrtti> I'm doomed.
[20:30] <genii> So you are selling handmade things there or buying them? ;)
[20:31] <Myrtti> I'm doomed!
[20:31] <Myrtti> and that is exactly the question Duncan asked.
[20:31] <Myrtti> you people know me too well
[20:31] <Tm_T> haha
[20:33] <Myrtti> I could sell knitted gadget pouches
[20:36] <genii> Mittens
[20:36] <Pici> !rpm =~ dangerous and unsupported
[20:37] <Pici> oops
[20:37] <Pici> !rpm =~ s/dangerous/dangerous and unsupported/
[20:37] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, 'elkbuntu' is taken on the mozilla websites, but seemingly not by me :(
[20:38] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: http://www.usernamecheck.com/
[20:38] <Myrtti> not that useful though
[20:38] <Pici> Takes forever too
[20:38] <Myrtti> yup
[20:38] <elkbuntu> well, it's handshaking a zillion APIs there
[20:46] <elkbuntu> and gives false positives too.. apparantly theres an elkbuntu.lj ... except there's not.
[20:48] <Myrtti> Nafallo: what do you want? last.fm what?
[20:49] <Myrtti> whee.
[20:49] <Myrtti> I had a lag of 230+seconds
[21:00]  * LjL wonders whether that site will actually go and register the username you type everywhere... :)
[21:00] <Flannel> er, floobots?
[21:00] <Flannel> Where are the flootbots?
[21:00] <Flannel> flood, ven.
[21:00] <Flannel> gah
[21:00] <Flannel> !ops
[21:01] <Flannel> I'm having lag issues, can't respond quick enough on my own
[21:02] <Flannel> mmm, ubottu is dead too?
[21:02] <Myrtti> that was elaborate
[21:02] <Flannel> hey, there we go.
[21:04] <Flannel> Wow, whats with all the lag?  Not only in floodbots, but me too it seems.
[21:05] <Myrtti> all I can think of is that the lags were connected
[21:05] <Myrtti> lags and that attack
[21:05] <LjL> quite possibly
[21:07] <tomaw> they should be gone now though
[21:08] <LjL> meh, i'm not joined in half the channels i should be
[21:08] <LjL> tomaw: did they hit -unregged?
[21:08] <tomaw> yes
[21:09] <LjL> so the floodbots were lagged for real
[21:09] <LjL> tomaw, about how many of them?
[21:09] <Mez> 7 trillion
[21:09] <tomaw> less than thirty
[21:10] <LjL> ok, then the only possible reason i could think of for floodbot lag can't be valid
[21:10] <Flannel> LjL: Looks like the warning happened, and then they were lagged afterwards for some reason
[21:11] <Flannel> since, they did warn at around the right time.
[21:13] <LjL> Flannel: no... according to my server, the bots warned at :00:10, but the flood started at :59:58
[21:13] <LjL> that's 12 scary seconds
[21:13] <LjL> also, i can't understand why they didn't declare a mass join *before* declaring clone flood
[21:13] <LjL> especially given there were joins to -unregged
[21:40] <Myrtti> ikonia: Word count: 406
[21:40] <Myrtti> my brain melts, I'm saving the entry and moving over to do something else.
[21:40] <Myrtti> like nom baked beans in tomato sauce and make the daily Skype vidcall.
[21:59] <jrib> !ffmpeg
[22:33] <ikonia> Myrtti: huh ?
[22:33] <ikonia> Myrtti: word count ?
[22:34] <Myrtti> of the blog entry about synchronizing calendars
[22:34]  * PriceChild uses calsyncs60
[22:35]  * Tm_T uses nothing, all fails
[22:35] <ikonia> Myrtti: ahhh
[22:35] <PriceChild> I also don't bother automatically syncing, seen as I don't change it.
[22:35] <ikonia> PriceChild: looking at that too, thank you
[22:36] <PriceChild> It 'just worked'.
[22:36] <PriceChild> Although there are several problems...
[22:37] <PriceChild> I'm sure they will become aparent when you find the homepage.
[22:40] <ikonia> not looking "now"
[22:40] <ikonia> I'll look on work time :)
[22:50] <Myrtti> I, my friends, have found a new mission for my life.
[22:51] <Myrtti> http://www.opensourcefood.com/recipes/search/finnish
[22:51] <Myrtti> screw this Ubuntu thing.
[22:51] <Myrtti> :-D
[22:55] <Flannel> Myrtti: I've been opressed by closed source food long enough!
[22:55] <Tm_T> Myrtti: well, until you go, see this, especially ending: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings/Minutes/2008-11-18
[22:55] <Flannel> mm, and closed source spelling rules too, it seems.
[22:59] <LjL> !repeat
[22:59] <LjL> -EMAKESNOSENSE
[23:02] <Flannel> Caused by lag
[23:03] <Flannel> LjL: ubottu skipped a few commands when she came back
[23:03] <LjL> don't get you
[23:07] <Flannel> LjL: commands were given during lag (assume a queue), after lag stopped, only the last command was said.
[23:07] <Flannel> Also, earlier I had the commands go inside out.  A B C were issued, and then replies went C A B
[23:07] <Flannel> it was odd
[23:07] <LjL> Flannel: uhm ok but still that edit makes no sense
[23:07] <LjL> if nobody knows your answer, nobody knows your answer. yeah, of course.
[23:07] <LjL> !pt
[23:07] <LjL> !-pt
[23:08] <LjL> !no pt is <reply> Por favor use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em português. Obrigado.
[23:08] <LjL> #ubuntu-pt states in the topic that it doesn't offer support and to go to #ubuntu-br instead
[23:08] <LjL> (hurray)
[23:09] <jrib> the channel on ptnet is more populated
[23:09] <jrib> but last time I checked #ubuntu-br is +r for some reason
[23:09] <LjL> jrib: it is not
[23:09] <jrib> not anymore
[23:09] <LjL> got 51 people
[23:09] <Flannel> LjL: I don't think it was an edit.
[23:09] <LjL> we're not goign to tell people to go to a non-freenode channel anyway
[23:10] <jrib> LjL: including you and me 
[23:10] <Flannel> He thought the factoid was gone
[23:10] <Flannel> oh, there is an edit
[23:10] <Flannel> Right.  That edit makes no sense
[23:15] <jussi01_> morning all
[23:17] <Flannel> blakbeardscrotum -- inappripriate nick or not?
[23:17] <Tm_T> Flannel: what part could be inapprooihnrt
[23:20] <Flannel> Tm_T: Was that sarcasm? or are you having some typing issues?
[23:20] <Tm_T> Flannel: latter
[23:21] <Tm_T> just cant write
[23:21] <jussi01_> Flannel: definately in appropriate imho
[23:25] <Tm_T> oh boy
[23:25] <Tm_T> see #k =)
[23:26] <jussi01_> Tm_T: LOL
[23:26] <Myrtti> stupid php
[23:26] <jussi01_> have fun
[23:26] <Myrtti> I hate php
[23:26] <Tm_T> jussi01_: I mean, seriously, his english is unreadable
[23:27] <Pici> Myrtti: Someone here likes it... /me runs
[23:27] <Myrtti> I know
[23:27] <Tm_T> Myrtti: just burn it
[23:27] <Myrtti> BUUURRRNNN
[23:27] <Myrtti> all I wants is a line to be parsed a bit differently.
[23:43] <spree> Hi. I was banned about 2 weeks ago for saying some overtly gross things. This is now the third time I have come here to ask for an unban. What i said was gross and inappropriate, I have read the TOS and the rules and all of that, and have been subjected to having what I said repeated over and over for analysis and etc. Look, it's been 2 weeks I'm not going to do it again. Can I be unbanned please?
[23:44] <LjL> you'd know there's nothing called "TOS" or "rules" among the documents that concern behavior in the Ubuntu channels...
[23:44] <spree> LjL, There were numerous documents you had me read
[23:45] <spree> they were given from Ubottu
[23:45] <spree> for example attitude, language, etc
[23:45] <LjL> right, none of which were called TOS or rules
[23:45] <spree> LjL, You know what, you're absolutely right, none of them are called TOS or rules.
[23:46] <spree> However for the sake of language convenience I called them TOS or rules.
[23:46] <spree> I apologize for my semantic error.
[23:48] <LjL> spree: you're unbanned. the fact that you've spent so much time reading those documents means you're supposed to respect them by the letter.
[23:48] <spree> understood
[23:52] <Myrtti> ikonia, elkbuntu: http://nokiaaddict.com/2008/11/18/ccalcpro-advanced-calculator-for-the-e71/