[00:00] <Riddell> a|wen: goodness, lots in that
[00:02] <Riddell> a|wen: uploaded
[00:02] <Riddell> 3.5 really is supported in hardy :)
[00:13] <Tm_T> our KDE3 guy answered: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6206917&postcount=103
[00:26] <a|wen-> night people
[00:49] <ScottK> Tm_T: If someone wants to support KDE3 in Intrepid, I think it's great.
[00:49] <Tm_T> ScottK: I too, but it should be done right IMO
[00:50] <ScottK> Tm_T: True, but I don't think we really have the time.  Someone ought to tell him though that bluetooth is hopeless due to the bluez update.
[00:50]  * JontheEchidna already did
[00:50] <Tm_T> ScottK: I know, that's why I would love to see him and perhaps others to be volunteered to do it for us
[00:50] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Great.
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6207264&postcount=104
[00:50] <Tm_T> ScottK: I just fail to see why he didn't contact us properly
[00:51] <ScottK> Tm_T: I don't see the need.  We aren't going to do it/support it, so why should he.
[00:51] <ScottK> Effectively he's running a KDE3 based Ubuntu derivative.
[00:52] <Nightrose> ScottK: and causing a lot of trouble with an epoch of 7 :(
[00:52] <Tm_T> ScottK: true, but, problem is in how those packages are done
[00:52] <Tm_T> ScottK: and I afraid it will come later to us, badly
[00:52] <ScottK> There's no way to do it that won't cause problems because he has to either entire replicate the non-KDE parts of the Ubuntu archive or have a higher version number.
[00:53] <ScottK> Some of those words are out of order.
[00:53] <ScottK> Sorry.  I only got 2 hours sleep last night and spend almost 10 hours driving today.
[00:53] <ScottK> I'm a bit fried right now.
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> sounds fun
[00:54] <Tm_T> ScottK: yup, that isn't excuse to make packages the way he have done
[00:54] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'd use two of those three letters in my description.
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> heh
[00:54]  * ScottK isn't familiar with the details of the packaging.
[00:55] <Tm_T> anyway, I should have been sleeping some 4 hours ago
[00:55] <Tm_T> so good night ->
[00:56] <ScottK> Good night.
[00:56]  * ScottK goes for a bit of a lie down.
[06:52] <glade88> JontheEchidna: is this governed by kde4libs? http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/990/kdelibsxh2.jpg
[08:01] <Arby> morning
[08:02] <^seelenn^> Morning
[08:49] <glade88> stdin: so should I file another bug?
[08:49] <stdin> glade88: I guess, I'm just looking at what -d does for the original kdesu to see if it's kdesudo or not
[08:50] <glade88> stdin: thanks. I'll report one
[08:52] <stdin> glade88: yeah, it's a KDESudo issue, -d does nothing without --comment, but with kdesu it just asks for the password
[10:12] <glade88> what do I have to do to kde-nightly to show entries in kicker->applications?
[10:42] <bdgraue> glade88: http://groups.google.com/group/amarok-neon/browse_thread/thread/52aacf37ef7b05b8
[12:21] <apachelogger> Arby: png
[12:23] <Arby> apachelogger: pong, briefly
[12:24] <Arby> apachelogger: is it urgent, at work and no time.
[12:24] <apachelogger> same here :P
[12:24] <apachelogger> Arby: nvm, it can wait
[12:24] <apachelogger> I'll mail the KDE 3 dude in a minute
[12:37] <apachelogger> Nightrose: png
[12:37] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: gif.
[12:37] <apachelogger> ewww :P
[12:38] <Nightrose> apachelogger: jpg?
[12:38] <Nightrose> ;-)
[12:38] <apachelogger> oh dear
[12:38] <apachelogger> Nightrose: shall I CC kubuntu-devel in my mail to the kde3 dood?
[12:38] <Nightrose> Riddell: awww - /me hugs her computer
[12:39] <Nightrose> hmmm - probably a good idea to keep everyone in the loop - but might make him feel "everyone against him"
[12:40] <apachelogger> well, that feeling could help make him realize the importance
[12:40] <Nightrose> i think private mail might be better for starters
[12:40] <Nightrose> true
[12:40] <Nightrose> but we might loose the chance to prevent more harm
[12:41] <seele> argh, my network manager popped out again
[12:41] <seele> the only thing it might be was from logging in to neon, but i dont know how it would have messed with it.  theyre separate .kde folders
[12:41] <apachelogger> Nightrose: we could go to epoch 8 :P
[12:41]  * seele bangs head on desk
[12:41] <apachelogger> start an epoch war ;-)
[12:41] <Nightrose> hehe
[12:42] <apachelogger> seele: popped out?
[12:42]  * Nightrose puts pillow on seele's desk
[12:42] <seele> apachelogger: yeah, it's not in the systray, it's a standalone window with a taskmanager entry
[12:42]  * Hobbsee removes the desk, and leaves the pillow on seele's knees
[12:42] <apachelogger> ah
[12:42] <apachelogger> hm
[12:43] <seele> Hobbsee: it *is* kindof early for me to be up yet ;)
[12:43] <apachelogger> seele: kill it and restart it
[12:43] <apachelogger> maybe plasma is stupid right now ;-)
[12:44] <seele> ok, brb.. but i'm pretty sure that didnt work last time
[12:44] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:44] <Hobbsee> guess it is...
[12:45]  * seele sighs
[12:45] <seele> apachelogger: didn't work
[12:45] <seele> apachelogger: i think the last time i had to remove all my plasma settings
[12:45] <seele> apachelogger: i still dont understand why it's affecting my .kde settings
[12:59] <apachelogger> seele: could be a random plasma break
[12:59] <apachelogger> in fact, it is most likely, I am also using neon and didn't notice anything like it
[13:01] <seele> apachelogger: you switch between the two?
[13:02] <apachelogger> yus
[13:03]  * Riddell copies 4.1.3 to intrepid-proposed
[13:03] <apachelogger> \o/
[13:09] <rgreening> yay
[13:20] <NCommander> Riddell, retry adept once publisher runs
[13:23] <Riddell> that's the plan
[13:23] <Riddell> NCommander: I have another challenge for you if you're up for it :)
[13:26] <Riddell> kde4libs needs some arm love
[13:28] <NCommander> Its already on my ARM todo list
[13:28] <NCommander> But ubuntu-desktop is taking priority ATM
[13:29] <smarter> don't Debian already build packages for arm?
[13:31] <jtechidna> Fedora Core 8 doesn't have the Oxygen konversation nicklist theme D:
[13:31] <jtechidna> or at least I think FC 8 is on this ancient thing...
[13:32] <smarter> Fedore Core doesn't exist anymore
[13:32] <smarter> *Fedora
[13:32] <jtechidna> Sysinfo for 'lockjaw': Linux 2.6.22.5-76.fc7 running KDE 3.5.7-21.fc7 Fedora, CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.60GHz at 1600 MHz (3190 bogomips), HD: 72/145GB, RAM: 688/2026MB, 141 proc's, 17.28min up
[13:32] <jtechidna> ha, fedora core 7
[13:32] <jtechidna> that is sad, this thing has 3 times more ram than my desktop
[13:36] <rgreening> this seems interesting... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation
[13:37]  * jtechidna goes for his dentist's appointment
[13:53] <apachelogger> ohh
[13:53] <apachelogger> trunk now uses the new plasma notification thingy for file transfer progress
[13:53] <apachelogger> very sweet
[14:12] <apachelogger> reading that fall of kde thread makes me vomit, that is like watching a dog chasing it's tail
[14:13] <apachelogger> or like the really slick screensavers
[14:13] <apachelogger> if you look too long at them you start feeling sick
[14:17] <ScottK> Riddell: Do you have any plans to port/update kde-hal-device-manager?  Should it be removed?  I'm looking at python-kde3 rdepends trying to see if we can kill it off this cycle.
[14:20] <apachelogger> wasn't that more of a device-viewer really?
[14:20]  * apachelogger doesn't remember ever managing stuff with it
[14:20] <Riddell> it was a GUI wrapper around lshal pretty much
[14:21] <Riddell> and a port of the gtk hal-device-manager, it never did manage devices indeed
[14:21] <Riddell> ScottK: are we trying to get rid of python-kde3?
[14:21] <apachelogger> hehe
[14:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: we will have to, in order to get rid of kdelibs4 I guess :)
[14:21] <ScottK> Riddell: Just looking to see if it's feasible.  I'd say we're trying to get rid of anything KDE3.
[14:22] <Riddell> I don't mind getting rid of kde-hal-device-manager, it was mostly done to touch up my pykde skillz
[14:22] <ScottK> Riddell: There are some other rdepends that look like they'll still work OK, so I'll leave it.
[14:23] <ScottK> Having 3 rdepends instead of 4 doesn't really help.
[14:32] <tictric> hi folks, I just realised that intrepid has no package kpilot which I actually need. Only way is to compile hardy sources?
[14:33] <jtechidna> Yeah, the KDE 4.1 release of kdepim didn't include kpilot since it wasn't working. I think KDE 4.2 will have kpilot again
[14:34] <apachelogger> it's not like the KDE 3 version of kpilot was working very well
[14:35] <tictric> Not very, but well enough for my purposes. You only need to have lots of backups handy :-)
[14:35] <apachelogger> smarter, ScottK, Tm_T: btw, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-loom-devs/bzr-loom/trunk/annotate/head:/HOWTO
[14:38] <smarter> interesting
[14:38] <tictric> May I point your attention to this place? -> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/kpilot/4:3.5.9-0ubuntu3
[14:39] <ScottK> apachelogger: That assumes a lot more familiarity with bzr than I have.
[14:39] <ScottK> tictric: Why?
[14:39] <tictric> This package does not install and it's named kpilot in intrepid
[14:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: I hope it becomes easier to use, I don't think I would want to use it right now
[14:39] <apachelogger> but it certainly improves the full-source branch proposal
[14:40] <apachelogger> ...still we have the problem that KDE source would be eating bandwith and space like nothing else
[14:40] <smarter> needs some work thought, if you really need to type "bzr down-thread" X times to get to a specific "thread" and cannot just type bzr thread X
[14:40] <apachelogger> it's WIP :P
[14:41] <smarter> "(this will be made easier in the future with an automatic mode of operation)" okay ;)
[14:41] <ScottK> apachelogger: As long as Debian is using patch systems, I think we should too, so there's no great benifit to moving to full DVCS packaging.
[14:41] <apachelogger> IMHO bzr should use a quilt-like approach to handle patches, why track the version of every source file when you only need the 1% which is affected by a patch
[14:41] <apachelogger> ScottK: debian started that whole vcs-pkg stuff off IIRC ;-)
[14:42] <apachelogger> tictric: Status: Superseded
[14:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: Yes, I'm OK with having debian dir in VCS.
[14:42] <apachelogger> tictric: also see https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/kpilot
[14:43] <ScottK> tictric: That's an obsolete KDE3 package that was removed during development.
[14:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, I think we shouldn't worry about the full-source approach at all until bzr has a sensible solution for the amount of data we would be carrying around
[14:44] <tictric> Yep, I see. Wasn't reading carefully enough. I was wondering anyway :)
[14:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: Agreed.
[14:45] <NCommander> Riddell, KDE4libs is now being ported
[14:47] <Riddell> NCommander: by you?
[14:47] <NCommander> yeah
[14:47] <Riddell> you're my hero :)
[14:47] <NCommander> It looks easy enough to fix
[14:56] <apachelogger> smarter: can you write a wiki page giving a quick intro to bzr packaging?
[14:57] <smarter> apachelogger: well, the wiki pages james_w pointed out at the meeting are pretty good
[15:01] <apachelogger> some of the stuff doesn't work yet though
[15:02] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you should try to drop the kdepimlibs build dependencies of kdebase* in beta1
[15:02]  * jtechidna makes a note of that
[15:02] <apachelogger> from my experience with neon nothing in kdebase depends on pimlibs anymore
[15:02] <NCommander> Riddell, I hit a snag
[15:02] <NCommander> Riddell, to compile kde4libs on my hardware will take somewhere in the ball park of two weeks
[15:03] <jtechidna> "the little ARM that could"
[15:03] <NCommander> Riddell, I can provide a patch that should fix the issue, and not break any other architecture, but I can't actually test build it
[15:04] <Riddell> NCommander: we can run it by doko, he's the one complaining about it not building
[15:04] <apachelogger> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdebase/workspace-ubuntu
[15:04] <NCommander> Riddell, I'm complaining because it blocked OOo :-P!
[15:05] <NCommander> apachelogger, neat
[15:05]  * apachelogger shudders
[15:05] <apachelogger> ooo
[15:05] <Riddell> NCommander: if kdelibs takes too long to compile...
[15:05] <NCommander> Riddell, it compiles fine on the ARM builders
[15:05] <NCommander> My personal ARM hardware is a generation out of date
[15:05] <NCommander> (well, it compiles fine until it FTBFS :-))
[15:06] <jtechidna> I could compile it with my Nintendo DS if it had any compilation tools whatsoever :P
[15:06] <jtechidna> ...and if it didnt have a 66 MHZ processor
[15:06] <NCommander> with 4MB of RAM?
[15:06] <apachelogger> lolz
[15:06] <jtechidna> ya
[15:06] <NCommander> WTF would you page out to?
[15:06] <jtechidna> actually I have a flashcart that provides 32 MB more
[15:07] <NCommander> Riddell, would you have a strong objection to us uploading a kde4libs with a fix that is at least known not to break amd64/i486?
[15:07] <NCommander> *i386?
[15:08] <Riddell> NCommander: fine with me
[15:12] <Tonio_> hi there
[15:12] <smarter> hey Tonio_
[15:18] <smarter> Tonio_: how is it going?
[15:20] <ScottK> apachelogger: One of my reservations about moving to keeping debian dirs in bzr is uploads to the archive not getting reflected in the bzr repo.  I think it's probably not to hard to write a script that would notice the subset of the packages we are worrying about and flag to someone's attention is the version in the archive gets higher than what's in bar.
[15:20] <ScottK> apachelogger: Maybe someone could work on that now (before we lose changes)?
[15:20] <rgreening> smarter: got any experience with using qtdesigner to design the ui for use in python?
[15:21] <jtechidna> rgreening: I have experience with that
[15:22] <rgreening> jtechidna: ok, cool. halp
[15:22] <smarter> I probably used it one time for an exercice on my PyQt book :)
[15:22] <rgreening> :P
[15:22] <smarter> I let jtechidna halp you
[15:22] <rgreening> hehe
[15:22] <jtechidna> rgreening: the uic class
[15:23] <jtechidna> with that class you can load a .ui file on the fly
[15:23] <jtechidna> with something like self.ui = uic.loadUi("imagedialog.ui")
[15:23] <jtechidna> then you can manipulate the objects in the ui files as normal
[15:24] <jtechidna> self.ui.myfavoritecombobox.makehugeliekXBOX()
[15:24] <rgreening> jtechidna: ok, I get that much. But within qtdesigner, how far do I have to go... i.e. I drag and drop the widgets, do I need to go and modify properties, slots/signals, etc.. or do I defer to the python code.
[15:24] <jtechidna> you would want to modify the object names at the least
[15:24] <rgreening> ok.
[15:25] <jtechidna> after a while it gets hard to track objects when they are called combobox_35
[15:25] <rgreening> jtechidna: and for the menu items, do I build them on the fly, or should I predefine all the menu items in the ui
[15:25] <jtechidna> if they're not going to change much during runtime I'd construct them in designer
[15:25]  * rgreening n00b to python and qt and kde programming (but learning quickly)
[15:26] <jtechidna> unless it's easier to do it in pyqt :P
[15:26] <rgreening> jtechidna: ok, I'll predefine in designer.
[15:26] <jtechidna> defining the rest of the stuff in designer vs. python is really a matter of style
[15:26] <rgreening> jtechidna: want to help me code the ui for a KDE firewall front-end to ufw ? :)
[15:27] <jtechidna> not at the moment :P
[15:27] <rgreening> lol...
[15:27] <rgreening> haha
[15:27] <jtechidna> but I'd be glad to lend a hand
[15:28] <rgreening> jtechidna: that would be appreciated. I really need to get the pyQt book - Rapid Gui Programming With Python And Qt: The Definitive Guide To Pyqt Programming
[15:28] <jtechidna> yeah, I've seen it at Barnes and Nobles but it's like $40 there D:
[15:28]  * smarter has rapid gui stuff, it rocks
[15:28] <rgreening> I wish my bookstore had it.. I think I have to order in
[15:29] <jtechidna> what I really would like is python-style documentation
[15:29] <rgreening> smarter: a good book huh..
[15:29] <smarter> the trolltech docs are great imho
[15:30] <jtechidna> yeah, the docs are good
[15:34] <rgreening> jtechidna, smarter: When it comes time to internationalize the app, I'm going to need some help... not sure how to do it with the ui (I know how to in the python code).
[15:35] <jtechidna> rgreening: hmm, you might want to stick with python for that
[15:35] <smarter> not sure too actually ^^
[15:35] <smarter> I'm not even sure this is supported
[15:35] <smarter> I heard something about i18n support and Qt Designer 4.5
[15:35] <jtechidna> nice
[15:51] <kb9vqf> I read through the ubuntu-meeting log from yesterday...if anyone would like to talk with me about the KDE3 respository I'd be glad to listen. :)
[15:51] <kb9vqf> I apologize for the problems that I caused
[15:51] <kb9vqf> and I would like to repackage KDE3.5 properly
[15:51] <kb9vqf> The repository is offline for now per your request
[15:52] <jtechidna> oh hi, I'm dualscreenman from the forums
[15:53] <kb9vqf> Hi!
[15:53] <Nightrose> hi kb9vqf - thanks for taking it offline and coming here
[15:53] <kb9vqf> You are welcome
[15:53] <Nightrose> i am sure we can get this worked out :)
[15:53] <kb9vqf> Sounds good! :)
[15:54] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ping honey
[15:55] <Nightrose> kb9vqf: apachelogger is the one who send you an email and one of our packagers
[15:55] <Nightrose> kb9vqf: ScottK seemed interested as well
[15:55] <kb9vqf> I tried to contact him, but this is the first time I used IRC so I don't know what a "poke" is!
[15:55] <Nightrose> well i just poked him for you ;-)
[15:55] <Nightrose> no problem
[15:56] <jtechidna> kb9vqf: poke
[15:56] <jtechidna> :P
[15:56] <jtechidna> that is a poke
[15:57] <gribelu> yay http://websvn.kde.org/tags/KDE/4.1.80/
[15:57] <jtechidna> ooh, nice. beta1 got tagged
[15:58] <Nightrose> kb9vqf: anyway they seem to be away right now so please wait a little - i am sure they have ideas how this all can be done to please the users without risking problems when they update to jaunty
[15:59] <rgreening> jtechidna: TypeError: ('Wrong base class of toplevel widget', (<class 'PyQt4.QtGui.QWidget'>, 'QMainWindow'))
[15:59] <rgreening> jtechidna: grr.. arg...
[15:59] <rgreening> oh.. nm..
[15:59] <jtechidna> rgreening: when that happens I usually fiddle around until stuff works :P
[16:00] <rgreening> I used QWidget instead of QMainWindow.. doh
[16:00] <rgreening> haha
[16:02] <kb9vqf> OK, thanks!
[16:03] <kb9vqf> Do you know when the next meeting is so that I can apply for membership?
[16:03] <ScottK> Nightrose and kb9vqf: My main interest in this is that it appears that kb9vqf is doing a project that satisfies a real user desire and so we should not try to oppose it, but give advice in a supportive way.
[16:03] <Nightrose> ScottK: sure :)
[16:04] <Nightrose> ScottK: you were interested so i thought you might want to give some of that advice
[16:04] <jtechidna> kb9vqf: I believe we do these monthly. I don't know how that will work out with the Ubuntu Developers summit being next month though...
[16:04] <ScottK> kb9vqf: Do you understand the concern about you using an epoch in your KDE3 packages?
[16:04] <kb9vqf> Yes!
[16:04] <kb9vqf> I think I can undo that
[16:05] <kb9vqf> I have some bash experience, so maybe I can write a script to automagically remove epoch3 packages and replace them with the -kde3 packages
[16:05] <ScottK> kb9vqf: Also settings in .kde for KDE3 and KDE4 versions of packages shouldn't be mixed.
[16:06] <ScottK> kb9vqf: You probably ought to have your packages use .kde3 (you can see how the KDE4 packages in Hardy use .kde4 for an example).
[16:06] <kb9vqf> OK.  What about the KDE3 programs that are not yet replaced (e.g. kdevelop)?
[16:07] <kb9vqf> Can you / I alter them to use .kde3 as well?
[16:07] <ScottK> In the cases where we provide the KDE3 version in the official archive, I think you should just use that and don't worry about it.
[16:07] <jtechidna> as long as they aren't replaced yet they will be fine using the normal .kde
[16:08] <kb9vqf> My concern was the settings
[16:08] <kb9vqf> If I tell kcontrol, for example, to use .kde3, then the settings will not be applied to kdevelop, correct?
[16:09] <ScottK> kb9vqf: One other thing to be careful of is that we have a kdvi (KDE3 package) in the archive that is incompatible with trying to provide all of kdegraphics from KDE3.  You will need to replace that.
[16:09] <kb9vqf> How many KDE3 packages are still in the official repos?
[16:10] <kb9vqf> (Approximately :))
[16:10] <jtechidna> all extragear apps that still compile, I think, along with kdewebdev
[16:11] <jtechidna> and kde3's kdebindings
[16:11] <kb9vqf> Can those apps be modified to use .kde3 as their settings directory?
[16:12] <ScottK> There's no need for that.
[16:12] <ScottK> kb9vqf: Look at the output of apt-cache rdepends kdelibs4c2a.
[16:12] <kb9vqf> I'm away from my Intrepid machines at the moment, but I will do that when I get back.
[16:13] <ScottK> kb9vqf: You'll also need to resurrect kde-guidance as your KDE3 desktop will have some substantial missing pieces without it.
[16:13] <ScottK> OK
[16:14] <kb9vqf> ScottK: Sorry if I'm not understanding something here, but if my kcontrol dumps settings into .kde3, how will the official KDE apps get their configuration information?
[16:14] <kb9vqf> ScottK: or does KDE4's control center handle that now?
[16:14]  * ScottK looks over at jtechidna.
[16:14] <jtechidna> I think
[16:15] <jtechidna> that you could package the components that intrepid already has in -kde3 packges, and have them conflict with the official ones
[16:15] <kb9vqf> OK, that sounds fine
[16:17] <kb9vqf> Here's something else I'm not sure on.  Since I cannot change the epoch, how can I force my packages to override the official ones?  I tried something like this in the past, and apt-get forced me to manually select every single package before the upgrade would proceed.
[16:17] <kb9vqf> every single KDE3 package that is
[16:18] <jtechidna> somewhere under the packages' depends you add something like;
[16:18] <apachelogger> replaces: foobar
[16:18] <apachelogger> conflicts: foobar
[16:18] <jtechidna> ^that
[16:18] <apachelogger> kb9vqf: you will need to add these for every package
[16:18] <apachelogger> then installing the kde3 metapackage should remove the kde4 ones for now
[16:19] <apachelogger> logn term solution should be to make them installable alongside each other :)
[16:19] <ScottK> apachelogger: Couldn't a kubuntu-desktop-kde3 metapackage be enough (*conflicta/replaces)?
[16:19] <apachelogger> hm
[16:19] <jtechidna> well he would only have to conflict the kde3 ones that we have in intrepid
[16:19] <apachelogger> kb9vqf: what ScottK said, you migth just want to add the conflicts/replaces to the the metapackage
[16:19] <apachelogger> that was a connection reset alright
[16:20]  * apachelogger continues playing star trek legacy
[16:21] <rgreening> jtechidna: I got my window to show.. yay...
[16:21] <jtechidna> :)
[16:21] <kb9vqf> Sorry, my connection dropped out
[16:22] <kb9vqf> Can my packages somehow become "official" instead of "unofficial"?  If so, how can I do that? :)
[16:23] <jtechidna> kb9vqf: (what you missed) for all the -kde3 packages that would already have in intrepid, you'd add conflicts: foobar and replaces: foobar under the depenencies of the packages.
[16:23] <rgreening> jtechidna: tres cool indeedy
[16:24] <devfil> Riddell: what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebindings/+bug/297161 ?
[16:24] <kb9vqf> jtechidna: thanks for the resend
[16:25] <kb9vqf> Since I'm rebuilding anyway I can probably handle the merge
[16:26] <jtechidna> kb9vqf: I think if you asked you could get a PPA with more space. Even though you are graciously offering to maintain KDE3 packages they can't really become "official" official since making teh packages official would require official support and use of the official bug tracker, which is something we really don't have the resources to deal with
[16:26] <jtechidna> I think that getting a larger PPA & using your existing support facilities would be about the best solution
[16:27] <kb9vqf> OK
[16:27] <apachelogger> well, the main problem is that we want to decrease the amount of KDE 3 packages ;-)
[16:27] <smarter> yes, LP let you have a bigger PPA if you ask nicely :)
[16:27] <kb9vqf> Who would I ask about that?
[16:27] <smarter> questions.launchpad.net iirc
[16:27] <kb9vqf> thanks
[16:27] <apachelogger> well, it's not really urgent ;-)
[16:28] <apachelogger> neon is exceeding it's limits since the first week
[16:28] <Riddell> devfil: bah, missed it, sorry :(
[16:28] <smarter> but in http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6153716&postcount=88 what did you mean by "I've had to do so much fiddling with the build environment that I doubt this will work. I want a place to upload the binaries (and source) that I have already built, tested, in some cases modified, and verified." ?
[16:28] <devfil> Riddell: np
[16:28] <apachelogger> kb9vqf: btw, by using a PPA and establishing a set of rules to ensure package quality we could make them semi-official
[16:29] <Riddell> devfil: any others outstanding?
[16:29] <devfil> Riddell: AFAIK no
[16:30] <Riddell> devfil: if stuff like that gets overlooked mind and keep poking
[16:30] <smarter> kb9vqf: correct link to request the change to PPA size: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[16:30] <kb9vqf> The problem is that there were several header files that were buggy, so I had to modify them on the system that I was building on
[16:31] <kb9vqf> They have probably since been fixed
[16:31] <kb9vqf> as they were known bugs
[16:31] <smarter> do you have a list of the patches you did? (assuming you added patches for that and didn't modified directly the sources)
[16:32] <kb9vqf> On the header files, no.  Chages to KDE, yes I have patches
[16:32] <kb9vqf> Well, that is I could make patches if I needed to
[16:32] <kb9vqf> I have notes on what I cahnged
[16:33] <jtechidna> using the patch system for modifications is very much preferred
[16:33] <jtechidna> *a patch system, like quilt
[16:33] <smarter> but did you really modified the _binary_ packages?
[16:33] <kb9vqf> no
[16:33] <kb9vqf> I modified the control file inside the .deb package
[16:33] <kb9vqf> just to get stuff out faster
[16:34] <smarter> *bad
[16:34] <smarter> * practice
[16:34] <kb9vqf> Yes, I know
[16:34] <kb9vqf> I don't do that anymore
[16:34] <jtechidna> good :)
[16:34] <kb9vqf> BTW semi-official is OK :)
[16:34] <rgreening> jtechidna: when I load the ui in python, and then close it, the program doesn't exit... did I miss something?
[16:35] <jtechidna> rgreening: how are you closing it?
[16:35] <rgreening> hittin the X button
[16:35] <jtechidna> lol
[16:35] <jtechidna> um, hmm...
[16:35] <smarter> kb9vqf: also, you should remind people on the pages where you put the installation note and stuff that they can still use Hardy if they really don't want to change
[16:35] <jtechidna> rgreening: could you batpaste your script or something
[16:35] <jtechidna> ?
[16:35] <kb9vqf> smarter: I can do that
[16:36] <smarter> I'm pretty sure that most of the users of these packages don't really need Intrepid
[16:36] <kb9vqf> Well, I did :)
[16:36] <kb9vqf> It has made my daily work a lot easier
[16:36] <kb9vqf> Then again, maybe I just have an uncommon number of bugs that I hit on Hardy
[16:37] <jtechidna> hehe
[16:39] <kb9vqf> Hey, do you know if there is any chance that a 'revert to old "desktop as dumping ground"' option will be present in 4.2?
[16:39] <jtechidna> yes
[16:39] <jtechidna> there will be an option to set folderview as the background with a wallpaper and everything
[16:40] <jtechidna> http://jakilinux.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/a11.png
[16:41] <kb9vqf> I'll have to take a closer look...but looking better :)
[16:41] <jtechidna> hehe
[16:41] <kb9vqf> Maybe I could work on adding missing KDE3.5 features to KDE4 after I gain some experience?
[16:42] <jtechidna> I'm sure that the KDE devs would be happy
[16:42] <jtechidna> because they want to start going out in new directions in KDE 4.3
[16:43] <kb9vqf> OK, sounds good!  Thanks for all the help guys, I will look into how to upload to the PPA and start the long rebuild process.
[16:43] <jtechidna> Now that 4.2 has autohide, files-on-desktop, etc
[16:43] <kb9vqf> I will try my best to make it to the next meeting and apply for membership if you would consider it
[16:44] <jtechidna> ok, good luck :)
[16:44] <kb9vqf> I have a wiki page up http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimothyPearson :)
[16:54] <Riddell> NCommander: adept built!
[16:54] <Riddell> as did kdebase-workspace in jaunty
[16:54] <Riddell> it's all coming together
[16:55] <jjesse_> yaya
[16:56] <NCommander> Riddell, told you that would fix it :-)
[17:04] <NCommander> Riddell, Ok, I confirmed my fix works on ARM, I'll be uploading kde4libs as soon as it finishes in my PPA
[17:06] <Riddell> NCommander: how did you confirm?
[17:07] <NCommander> Riddell, I built the file I had to change on ARM hardware
[17:07] <Riddell> just hope there's no more ARM issues :)
[17:07] <NCommander> SInce it was one of the very last files to be built, there shouldn't be any more FTBFS
[17:07] <NCommander> right
[17:10] <NCommander> Riddell, was a new Qt recently uploaded?
[17:10]  * NCommander just reproduced the ARM FTBFS on amd64
[17:10] <Riddell> 11 Nov
[17:10] <NCommander> Ah
[17:10] <NCommander> So it was a general FTBFS that just hadnt' cropped up
[17:10] <Riddell> erk
[17:10] <NCommander> THat makes life easier
[19:23] <NCommander> Riddell, kde4libs is being uploaded
[20:19] <ScottK> Riddell: Did you see Bug 300047
[20:19] <ScottK> ?
[20:25] <NCommander> ScottK, I can look into this if you want
[20:25] <ScottK> NCommander: Great.  Looked at a glance like a patch just not appying, but I didn't have time to do more than glance.
[20:25] <NCommander> I'll put it on the armel todo
[21:25] <nixternal> Riddell: do you have any documentation on the steps behind creating Kubuntu? ie. seeding the CDs, repo prepping and such?
[21:26] <nixternal> need something to use when I present our appliances running on Ubuntu here and having ample documentation will help me out with that
[21:26] <nixternal> gotta make it easier than our current setup, which at this time is pretty easy for us to build
[21:36] <NCommander> nixternal, use the documenation on setting up debian-cd, and then replace ubuntu with debian
[21:36] <NCommander> (make sure you use ubunu-cd source however)
[21:39] <nixternal> groovy, thanks
[21:48] <NCommander> Riddell, who's working on kde4bindings
[21:52] <ScottK> NCommander: I thought it was you?
[21:52] <NCommander> I was looking at python-qt4
[21:52] <NCommander> ...
[21:52]  * NCommander adds it to the growing list
[21:52] <Riddell> NCommander: I am I guess
[21:53] <Arby> seele: do you have time to talk about system-config-printer-kde?
[21:53] <NCommander> Riddell, did you finish that merge from Debian?
[21:53] <Riddell> nixternal: the seeds are in lp.net/ubuntu-seeds bzr branches, germinate turns them into meta packages, livefs turns that into squashfs images and ubuntu-cd turns it into CDs
[21:54] <Riddell> NCommander: no, couldn't get their C# stuff to work
[21:54] <Riddell> NCommander: but then I updated to 4.2 alpha and it's now a lot closer to what debian has
[21:54] <Riddell> so it might be worth another shot to merge if someone can be bothered
[21:54] <nixternal> c#?
[21:54] <NCommander> where's directhex
[21:55] <nixternal> please don't tell me that KDE is using c#
[21:55] <NCommander> kde4bindings :-P
[21:55] <Riddell> the debian c# stuff didn't seem to be actually tested (which is unusual for Debian, more our style:)  needed at least these changes kubuntu.org/~jr/tmp/kdebindings-debian.diff
[21:55] <Riddell> NCommander: directhex?
[21:56] <nixternal> oh, kde bindings
[21:56] <NCommander> Riddell, the mono guru
[21:57] <Riddell> NCommander: well it's working fine in our package, qyoto and kimono both work for me
[21:58] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kimono.png
[21:59] <Arby> anybody here good with cups config, particularly how to set system wide paper sizes/orientations etc?
[21:59] <Riddell> nixternal: but best thing generally is to look for the remastering docs on help.ubuntu.com
[22:00] <Riddell> Arby: I doubt anyone here understands CUPS's internal API
[22:00] <Arby> I was afraid that was the case
[22:01] <Arby> Riddell: any idea who looks after system-config-printer in ubuntu?
[22:02] <Arby> I've reached the limits of my (already limited knowledge) and need some input
[22:02] <NCommander> Arby, try the desktop team, since they use cups as well
[22:02] <NCommander> (#ubuntu-desktop)
[22:03] <Arby> NCommander: good point
[22:07] <Arby> Hi dentaku65
[22:08] <dentaku65> hi Arby
[22:08] <Arby> come to join in the fun?
[22:08] <dentaku65> THANKS! Today is a big day :-)
[22:09] <Arby> your welcome
[22:09] <Arby> *you're
[22:09] <dentaku65> Well... is too complicate for me... maybe I can provide a good spaghetti code and very good wine for the team :-)
[22:09] <Arby> you don't need to be able to code
[22:10] <Arby> there are other things you can do you know :)
[22:10] <Arby> but wine is also welcome :)
[22:10] <dentaku65> :)
[22:10] <Arby> we can always use more people looking at bugs
[22:10] <Arby> or testers
[22:10] <Arby> testers are good
[22:11] <dentaku65> fine for me
[22:12] <Arby> dentaku65: which one, both?
[22:12] <dentaku65> yes, both...
[22:12] <seele> Arby: i will tomorrow, when will you be around?
[22:13] <seele> i'm out for a bit this evening
[22:13] <dentaku65> yes, both...
[22:13] <Arby> seele ok, not urgent
[22:13] <Arby> anytime after about 8pm UTC
[22:13] <Arby> sorry I'm useless at timezones
[22:14] <seele> Arby: what time zone are you in?
[22:14] <Arby> seele GMT
[22:14] <Arby> dentaku65: ok why not start by having a read through https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Bugs/HowToTriage
[22:15] <seele> Arby: canada?
[22:16] <Arby> seele no, Greenwich Mean Time (UK)
[22:16] <seele> ok, so +1 UTC?
[22:17] <a|wen> seele: he's fooling you ;) ... GMT = UTC (at this time of year)
[22:17] <seele> a|wen: ah well, i'm lucky i can figure out my own time zone
[22:17] <Arby> like I said, I'm useless at timezones
[22:18] <Arby> don't travel enough
[22:18]  * ^seelenn^ doesn't do travelling... tis cold outside and I'm a wuss
[22:19] <Riddell> not that cold tonight, just went for a cycle ride
[22:19]  * a|wen wishes it was possible to use UTC as time-zone for his plasma clock
[22:20] <Arby> dentaku65: then we can find you some bugs to work on
[22:20] <^seelenn^> was cold when I went out at 6pm, really windy too... not fun at all
[22:20] <Arby> jtechidna: you seem to be bug man these days
[22:20] <Arby> have we got a list in need of triage for a new triager?
[22:21] <Arby> first person to say 'launchpad' get's whacked :)
[22:21] <seele> hmm
[22:21] <seele> Riddell: did you ever suggest the kickoff menu changes upstream?
[22:21] <seele> Riddell: the label alignment and hover
[22:22] <Riddell> seele: yes, Aaron vetoed and I presume it's been argued to death already so no point pushing them
[22:23]  * seele sighs
[22:23] <seele> i strongly dislike that menu
[22:23] <seele> *STRONGLY*
[22:24] <Riddell> not tepidly?
[22:24] <seele> i would use hate, but hate is a strong word
[22:25] <Riddell> so the menu does not speak to your condition?
[22:26] <seele> the menu is the root of my current condition which would take a tag cloud to fully visualise
[22:28] <seele> hmm.. openoffice has taken over the #1 spot.  apparently it isn't talking to klauncher
[22:28]  * seele wonders how she can get this picture in her presentation..
[22:29] <seele> Riddell: when does your holiday start?
[22:30] <Riddell> seele: 23:59 this Friday
[22:31] <Riddell> although since I'm going around visiting KDE developers, it's more a Kubuntu research trip on a Brompton :)
[22:31] <seele> unless canonical paid for your train ticket, you should stick to swimming and limit hacking ;)
[22:32] <rgreening> ok, here's a real stupid question... what would noobie users use to format a pen drive in KDE (3.5 or 4.1) without resorting to command line? I had a user ask if there was a simple util to format their pen drive. mkfs.vfat seems to be my only answer or qparted (overkill). There should be a context menu or something
[22:32] <seele> nixternal: i'm telling you.. going all the way to Michigan to talk is so 1990's.  Teleconferencing is the way of the future
[22:32] <nixternal> did you do yours already?
[22:32] <seele> nixternal: tonight, about 22:00 EST
[22:33] <nixternal> groovy
[22:33] <seele> got slides and everything, although it will be weird needing to say "next slide please"
[22:33] <seele> i should get one of those spoken story book "dings" to play
[22:33] <Riddell> rgreening: that's depressingly overlooked.  I had a summer of code student working on it once but it didn't end up very polished
[22:33] <nixternal> lol
[22:33] <rgreening> Riddell: still got the code?
[22:34] <rgreening> Riddell: I'm tempted to write something myself
[22:34] <Riddell> somewhere I should do
[22:34] <rgreening> Dolphin should have a right-click Format option
[22:34] <rgreening> for any removable media
[22:37] <a|wen> that would be cool
[22:52] <rgreening> Riddell: know anything about using konq_popupmenuplugin? as it was suggested I may be able to implement the context menu for the format using that (in at least konqueror). Dolphin may not (yet) support using this plugin...
[22:56] <jtechidna> look up service menus
[23:03] <rgreening> jtechidna: Not sure if dolphin supports that
[23:03] <rgreening> konq and kdesktop yes...
[23:04] <jtechidna> it does
[23:04] <jtechidna> obviously kde3 servicemenus won't work with KDE4
[23:05] <jtechidna> KDE4 example: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdeutils/ark/app/
[23:06] <rgreening> hmm.... I'll look into it. If it'll work with a service menu, that'll be great...
[23:06] <rgreening> ok, off ...
[23:06]  * jtechidna waves
[23:13] <Riddell> ~twitter update my blog a top hit for wikileaks bnp, jriddell.org/diary
[23:13] <kubotu> status updated
[23:17] <Riddell> anyone with intrepid able to check that this works? http://www.kubuntu.org/koffice-2-beta-3
[23:20]  * a|wen starts installing
[23:20]  * Nightrose updates
[23:23] <Nightrose> hmm i only have an update for adept
[23:23]  * Nightrose headdesks
[23:23] <a|wen> kword and kspread starts
[23:24] <Nightrose> didn't have it installed - installing now
[23:26] <a|wen> Riddell: looks good... removed my old koffice and installed all the -kde4 packages instead
[23:26] <Riddell> great
[23:26] <Riddell> thanks
[23:27] <Nightrose> installed fine here - testing now
[23:30] <Nightrose> jep everything looks fine here
[23:34] <neversfelde> I had to do an apt-get install  -f on intrepid
[23:34] <neversfelde> but I installed koffice-kde4 from the ppa
[23:34] <neversfelde> was a problem with krita
[23:36] <a|wen> neversfelde: could be the dependency resolver of apt-get not being "good enough"
[23:37] <neversfelde> maybe, I shoud have copied the message, but I was in a hurry.
[23:38] <neversfelde> I do have a second machine running koffice, if there is a problem I will report it