=== bazhang_ is now known as bazhang [01:31] #geologia [01:35] ok === maxzda is now known as [mz] === [mz] is now known as _mz_ === Joint_ is now known as TiMiDo === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [10:08] @berlin [10:14] @schedule berlin [10:14] Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 19 Nov 18:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 19:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 13:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 14:00: Desktop Team | 21 Nov 21:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 25 Nov 17:00: Server Team [10:14] ;) [11:28] @schedule Johannesburg [11:28] Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 19 Nov 19:00: QA Team | 19 Nov 20:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 14:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 15:00: Desktop Team | 21 Nov 22:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 25 Nov 18:00: Server Team [12:01] @schedule Pretoria [12:01] Error: Unknown timezone: Pretoria - Full list: http://tinyurl.com/4vyvp8 === njpatel is now known as njpatel_away === thekorn__ is now known as thekorn === njpatel_away is now known as njpatel] === njpatel] is now known as njpatel [15:59] hi all :) [15:59] Hey robbiew. [16:00] afternoon [16:00] * cjwatson skates his activity report in just in time, whoops [16:00] hello [16:00] heh [16:00] hey [16:00] oh, activity report *blush* [16:00] cjwatson isn't the only one ;) [16:01] don't worry...I probably won't get to reading them to later this afternoon [16:01] hi all [16:01] good example and all that [16:01] multiple back-to-back meetings today...whoopee! [16:02] I'm showing slangasek at Lexington today, so not sure if he's showing up [16:02] if I can keep track of the clock [16:02] morning [16:02] doko, mvo: joining? [16:03] slangasek: :)...aren't timezones fun? [16:03] yes! [16:03] robbiew: Too right they are. :p [16:03] robbiew: online [16:03] doko: good evening sir...thanks! [16:04] suppose I should start it [16:04] #startmeeting [16:04] Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is robbiew. [16:04] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:05] [TOPIC] Alpha 1 [16:05] New Topic: Alpha 1 [16:05] forgot that on the agenda :P [16:05] figure we should at least mention it [16:05] slangasek may have stuff to mention there, I certainly do [16:05] I see d-i has been uploaded, but ubiquity hasn't yet [16:05] installer is now merged so theoretically we are ready to go with initial build testing; just doing an initial alternate CD build now [16:05] evand is on ubiquity, I think ... [16:06] I think that's the main blocker; there's some kubuntu uninstallables that Riddell is working on [16:06] I suspect that there will be some early failures [16:06] * slangasek nods [16:06] the GTK d-i frontend is merged and built but known broken [16:06] (fails to boot with some inscrutable error message) [16:06] I'll need to dig into that, but probably not for alph a1 [16:06] ja, partitioning is broken in ubiquity. I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. [16:06] hm. not a surprise I guess. ping me if you need a hang [16:06] hand [16:07] noted, thanks [16:07] we could go for alternate-only, and indeed that might be sensible? [16:07] we've done that in the past === kirkland` is now known as kirkland [16:07] (and server) [16:07] that would be fine, if that's where we are [16:08] no sense in dragging out the milestone freeze for stuff that's just Not Ready Yet [16:08] this is way earlier than we've ever done an alpha 1 before, as I've observed elsewhere [16:08] right...it is just an Alpha [16:08] so I don't feel bad about it being partial [16:09] particularly with armel consuming energy as well [16:09] armel already looks better than hppa =) [16:09] :-) [16:09] Thats not hard. :p [16:09] heh [16:10] anything else on this topic? [16:10] once... [16:10] twice... [16:10] gone! [16:10] [TOPIC] UDS [16:10] New Topic: UDS [16:11] So I'm trying to at least organize blueprints for the roadmap items [16:11] and then we need address any other ideas from the team [16:12] is there a reference for the roadmap? [16:12] (URL) [16:12] only internal at the moment, https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Roadmaps/9.04 [16:12] there's also some stuff linked off wiki.u.c/FoundationsTeam [16:12] thnx [16:13] * slangasek nods [16:13] yeah, I plan on creating at list of our specific blueprints for the public wiki as well [16:14] you can see them all at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty [16:14] with the schedule located here: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/ [16:15] * mvo is here, sorry for being late [16:15] ok, I should add one ... python will be fun this cycle [16:15] np [16:15] perfect timing [16:16] * mvo is confused "19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team" <- according to topic? [16:16] if you already have ideas for the blueprints robbiew has created, there's no harm dropping them into a clearly-marked section at the end of the spec now [16:16] mvo: the fridge calendar is ... not exactly 100% accurate sometimes [16:16] I'll mail ubuntu-news-team after the meeting to get it corrected [16:16] thanks! [16:17] mvo: discussing UDS session topics...you had some good ideas [16:17] * mvo should have used his google calendar [16:17] alpha-1> I enabled release-upgrades for it "update-manager -d" should work [16:18] uds topics> python is going to be interessting, I would be interessted in porting my stuff to python2.6 (to prepare for 3.0) [16:18] likewise [16:19] I'd be interested in helping port Python stuff to 2.6 [16:19] * mvo has a terrible long list of ideas [16:19] I'm almost sure that I can't do this alone [16:20] one thing to keep in mind for this release, is the bug fixing effort...so we have to be mindful of how much feature work we plan for [16:20] one of the cool things that came up recently in debian is screenshots.debian.net - it would be cool if we could discuss something like this at uds and maybe talk to the debian people behind it [16:20] another: please have better interaction for archive rebuilds / ftbfs packages during the release cycle [16:21] doko: indeed I think it would be unwise for you to try to do so - half the point of python 2.6 is to get people used to the newer constructs they need to use, isn't it? [16:23] cjwatson: well, 2.5->2.6 looks easier than 2.4 -> 2.5. there are some source changes needed (new keywords, but these are fairly simple to solve) [16:23] has_key becomes deprecated IIRC [16:23] foo.has_key(bar) -> bar in foo [16:24] (which you can do in 2.x anyway of course) [16:24] "with" becomes a keyword [16:24] can we aim for only 2.6 on the CD for jaunty? [16:24] yes, trying ... [16:24] is zope still 2.4 only? [16:24] zope2 [16:24] oh, but it's not on the cd, never mind [16:24] if you're using "with" as a variable name, mind you, I think that's a little odd :) [16:24] but should we care about it? [16:24] doko: how much is C api going to change (if at all)? [16:25] not that much, its better than the 2.5 change [16:25] * mvo nods [16:27] ok...assuming that discussion is done :) [16:27] anything else regarding UDS planning? [16:28] can we still add topic suggestions to the wiki? or is it too late now? [16:28] not too late...but getting close [16:28] ok, thanks [16:29] I'm thinking Friday should be the last day [16:30] with a short week in the US coming up...then another with FOSSCamp [16:30] need to get the Specs started [16:30] ok...next on the agenda is bugs [16:30] [TOPIC] Bugs [16:30] New Topic: Bugs [16:30] don't think there's much to cover here [16:31] is "hotkey madness" explicitly on the UDS schedule anywhere? [16:31] I gave robbiew the usual bug links [16:31] * TheMuso remembers seeing stuff re acpi/power management... I think [16:31] jaunty alpha 1 is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2209 [16:31] not power management, just hotkeys... [16:31] just the one there [16:32] slangasek: yes, it's on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/UDS/December2008 [16:32] ok [16:33] what does "EPR" mean? [16:33] where's that? [16:33] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/update-manager/+bug/284408 [16:33] where do you see that? [16:33] Launchpad bug 284408 in update-manager "r3xx Hardware does not work with fglrx [EPR#257839]" [Medium,In progress] [16:34] I think it might be an AMD code [16:34] check with bryce [16:34] aha, thanks [16:34] yes, bryce said: "This issue has been forwarded to AMD as EPR#257839." [16:34] probably their internal bug tracking [16:34] "external problem report" perhaps? [16:34] ;) [16:35] ok, so for bugs...the usual...watch yours and any hot ones that come across [16:36] * mvo will take care of the update-manager one [16:36] there are one or two of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs that are worth cleaning up anyway [16:36] [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue [16:36] New Topic: Sponsorship Queue [16:36] I'll take the lintian one [16:36] and maybe klibc if I have time [16:37] k, thnx [16:37] * TheMuso got onto main-sponsors yesterday so will be able to more actively help out with sponsoring, so far as cleaning up bugs on the queue goes. [16:37] * liw still can't sponsor anything, but is going to apply for UCD tonight/tomorrow [16:37] yeah, it's time to get back into the sponsorship queue now that merges are nearly out of the way [16:37] cool..thnx sir! [16:37] I've been less than effective at sponsorship this week (i.e., didn't get any done) [16:38] james_w is a sponsoring beast! [16:38] slangasek: I think you have an excuse, being in Lex [16:38] I suppose :) [16:38] yep, agree [16:39] ok...moving right along [16:39] [TOPIC] Activity Reports [16:39] New Topic: Activity Reports [16:40] I haven't had a chance to review all of them yet...since most came in today :P [16:40] anything anyone wants to mention here? [16:40] that CAN be mentioned here ;) [16:40] I wanted to mention http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/architecture-mismatches.txt as another tool for archive admins [16:40] it's empty at the moment because I dealt with it :) [16:41] but it reports problems where overrides have got out of sync between architectures for some reason, which happens occasionally due to Soyuz bugs [16:41] I'm sure I'll forget that url... is it linked from somewhere? [16:41] I'll put it on the wiki if I can remember where the other *-mismatches are listed [16:42] ok :) [16:42] ArchiveAdministration I guess [16:42] or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Consistency [16:43] none of the other *-mismatches were there though [16:43] I put it on ArchiveAdministration but feel free to add it elsewhere [16:43] ok [16:43] (under "Useful web pages") [16:44] [that's all from me] [16:44] heh...shouldn't they all be "useful"? [16:45] that's all for me as well [16:45] [TOPIC] AOB [16:45] New Topic: AOB [16:45] anything else folks want to cover? [16:45] good news: I found a way to ditch 3MB+ of data from the CD ... bad news: I think I might want to add the GTK d-i frontend, which is 10MB+ [16:46] maybe I'll only add it on the server CD for the moment, which has plenty of space [16:46] also, lots of people here should be well able to help out with fixing misc build failures in the armel port in progress [16:46] as doko said it's actually doing reasonably well with uninstallables at the moment, but still several more to fix [16:46] if you're interested, hop onto #ubuntu-arm [16:47] * mvo joins [16:47] you don't necessarily need hardware, I don't have any [16:47] cjwatson: If you could give me a heads up as to what needs to be done seed wise for the gtk installer, I am happy to look into putting things in place for studio to use it as well. [16:47] I tagged some of them ftbfs-armel [16:47] cjwatson: how do you test it, do you use qemu-system-arm? [16:47] what kind of failures are that usually? [16:47] mvo, you can't use qemu-system-arm out of the box [16:47] TheMuso: will do once I work it out myself; no great rush since it doesn't actually work yet [16:47] and please ping a buildd admin to rescore fixed builds [16:47] It doesn't target new EABI ARM [16:48] mvo: a number of the failures are reproducible on i386, and only haven't bitten it because we haven't rebuilt the package in question for a while [16:48] or reproducible if you set up some special situation, or obvious for some other reasson [16:48] reason [16:48] mvo, if you need something tested, feel free to poke me [16:48] mvo, or me [16:48] or NCommander :) [16:48] excellent! [16:48] I think there are three people on #ubuntu-arm now who've confessed to having a working bootstrap [16:49] We're making excellent progress, we cleared gtk's build-deps, and I kicked mono and fixed it last night [16:49] it's all very early port days, exciting if you're a weirdo like me who happens to enjoy that kind of thing ;-) [16:50] * mvo thinks that sounds like fun, but having a VM with a "real" arm system would be even more fun :) [16:50] * NCommander loves porting work === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team | 20 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 20 Nov 13:00: Desktop Team | 21 Nov 20:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 25 Nov 16:00: Server Team [16:50] is there going to be a qemu-system-arm that works out of the box? [16:50] I feel like I'm back on Debian :-P [16:50] we should have access to a bit more hardware soon, hopefully involving a porting box in the DC [16:50] liw, no, but I can merge the arm eabi patches into our QEMU, but they're still somewhat experimental [16:50] A porting box would be good. [16:51] cjwatson: I think we should disable the debian archive soonish (e.g. once the kde stuff can be built) [16:51] we're just a bit short of hardware right now [16:51] doko: I agree, really needs infinity to get back though [16:51] which I think is soon [16:51] we'll get by for the moment, I think [16:51] doko, I have a patch to clear the KDE FTBFS, I'm simply watching to make sure I haven't broke i386/amd64 first [16:51] NCommander: very nice! [16:51] doko, I did this for m68k ;-) [16:52] We've got X11's build-deps cleared; I won't be suprised if we can install ubuntu-desktop relatively soon [16:53] NCommander: then please fix gnat and openjdk for m68k as well ;p [16:53] As soon as pulseaudio has its libltdl weirdness sorted out at least. [16:53] gnat on m68k requires a bootstrap, I already did one, but I had trouble getting the actual Debian packages to compile once I candian-crossed the compiler [16:53] openjdk has an in-progress port, it needed some helper functions [16:54] ^- doko [16:54] I think we're running out of time [16:55] yep..anything else? [16:55] once... [16:55] twice... [16:55] #endmeeting [16:55] :) [16:55] Meeting finished at 10:55. [16:55] robbiew: well done for the first meeting :0) [16:56] thanks! [16:56] thanks! [16:56] thanks [16:56] Thanks, [16:56] thanks [16:56] doko: thanks :) [16:56] I should sit in on more foundation teams meetings, its an interesting experience [16:56] thanks all [16:57] lol [16:57] NCommander: glad you enjoyed it [17:00] * heno waves [17:00] hello everybody! [17:01] bdmurray, ogasawara, sbeattie, schwuk: meeting ping [17:01] * ogasawara waves [17:01] hi [17:01] ara is on holiday [17:02] hey [17:03] * ogasawara forgot to add some items to the agenda [17:04] ogasawara: go for it [17:04] ok, let's start [17:04] this is the QA team meeting, right? [17:04] NCommander: correct [17:04] #startmeeting [17:04] Meeting started at 11:04. The chair is heno. [17:04] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [17:04] [TOPIC] UDS topics [17:04] New Topic: UDS topics [17:04] * schwuk waves (with cup of tea in *other* hand) [17:04] * NCommander has a request of the QA team once there is a moment to bring up new business [17:06] I've talked with several of you about UDS topic ideas [17:06] please add them to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty/+specs [17:07] shall we agree on a naming convention? qa-* say [17:07] Hi [17:07] heno: doh. Can they be renamed? :-) [17:07] I'll flush out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs and we'll track them there [17:08] sbeattie: yes, I think so [17:08] good. I'm fine with a qa- prefix [17:08] (perhaps only drivers can do that?) [17:09] sbeattie: ok, page flushed [17:10] [TOPIC] Alpha 1 testing [17:10] New Topic: Alpha 1 testing [17:11] We are in alpha 'freeze' now and expect new images tomorrow I guess [17:11] we need to give them a quick sanity test [17:12] cr3: is your daily build testing machinery running normally now? [17:12] likely to be alternate-only [17:12] davmor2: can you take a few alternates for a spin tomorrow? [17:13] james_w: ok, thanks [17:13] heno: I haven't touched it in a while and I haven't seen any images on cdimage either yesterday or the day before, I actually checked manually [17:13] we'll coordinate in #ubuntu-testing as usual [17:13] heno: might be able to when I get back home [17:13] heno: there seems to be images though, so I'll see what's going on [17:13] cr3: ok. alpha 1 is always a bit uncertain [17:14] heno: ok, best effort then [17:14] yep [17:14] [TOPIC] The 2.6.27.3 and 2.6.27.4 kernel stable patch sets [17:14] New Topic: The 2.6.27.3 and 2.6.27.4 kernel stable patch sets [17:14] ogasawara: ^ [17:14] I just wanted to note that those patch sets are in the kernel sitting in intrepid-proposed [17:15] if there are any major regressions, let me know [17:15] where's 2.6.27.5 in the process (is it released yet?) [17:15] anything special that'd require more testing? [17:15] cr3 is working on getting some testing for proposed [17:15] sbeattie: bug 296500 is the SRU for 2.6.27.5 - not released yet or even accepted to -proposed [17:15] Launchpad bug 296500 in linux "Update to 2.6.27.5 stable kernel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296500 [17:16] pedro_: I'm happy with boot tests for the most part [17:16] ogasawara: when is 2.6.27.6 due? [17:16] ogasawara: in other words, should I be testing 2.6.27.5 asap? [17:16] cr3: 2.6.27.6 is already out - bug 297885 [17:16] Launchpad bug 297885 in linux "Update to 2.6.27.6 stable kernel" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297885 [17:16] 2.6.27.7 is under review [17:16] schwuk: he'll add a proposed flag in the submission data base; can you filter on that and make a proposed report? [17:17] heno: as long as I can filter out the results we want, sure. [17:17] cr3: let me rephrase, 2.6.27.6 has been released upstream and we're still in the process of getting it through the SRU process [17:18] schwuk: it'll be a bit hacked for now until we find a better way, it's not very clear in my mind yet [17:18] ogasawara: so you recommend that we test with .3 and .4 now and not wait for .5 .6 and .7 to land in proposed? [17:18] ogasawara: I mean, when is 2.6.27.6 due in -proposed? [17:18] ogasawara: nevermind, heno's question is better [17:19] cr3: yes, please test .3 and .4 which are in intrepid-proposed right now. I think the plan is to get those through first before uploading .5, .6, and .7 [17:20] ok, thanks. we'll do that [17:20] also, everyone is encouraged to enable proposed! [17:20] [TOPIC] Jaunty Bug Lists [17:20] New Topic: Jaunty Bug Lists [17:21] with a focus on fixing bugs for the Jaunty devel cycle, does anyone have any interest in us generating Jaunty bug lists? [17:21] for certain packages [17:22] ogasawara: similar to your kernel buglists? [17:22] we'd attempted something similar with the Hardy cycle by tagging bugs in launchpad but I'm unsure how successful it went [17:22] and/or for certain teams? [17:22] sbeattie: I think maintaining it via launchpad would be better [17:22] ogasawara: this may be a better point in the cycle to do it [17:23] bdmurray suggested using package maintenance in LP as a guide === njpatel is now known as njpatel_away [17:24] we need to find some low-touch way of generating them, that does not involve hand-picking [17:25] esp in areas we have no core expertise [17:25] using the regressions list seems good, high subscriber count and comment count [17:26] should we generate some lists automatically and then hand-sort from those? [17:26] so we really could just advertise use of the status pages since they contain that info? [17:26] We've talked about revisiting ones with a high or critical importance to ensure they are still relevant and looking at missed milestones. [17:27] not everything is listed on the status pages though [17:27] bdmurray: true [17:27] I think a real list of bug numbers is useful [17:28] we've talked about using a tag sop it could all be stored in LP [17:28] qa-jaunty-list ? [17:29] Maybe we should see how many bugs there are in each specific area to get an idea of how many bugs we are talking about [17:30] bdmurray: that would be good. that could also help measure the progress that gets made [17:30] bdmurray: what do you mean by area in this case? [17:31] like 20 critical bugs in Ubuntu, 500 high bugs, 100 bugs that are targetted for later .... [17:32] bdmurray: ok [17:32] then we can determine which lists need some refining [17:33] bdmurray: can you collect that and then work with ogasawara to create some preliminary lists? [17:33] yes [17:34] fwiw I have another conf call about this on Friday 17.30 UTC [17:34] bdmurray: please join me on that if you're around [17:35] great, moving on [17:35] any other business? [17:35] NCommander: ^ [17:35] I wanted to ask the QA team on the possibility of released Xfce 4.4.3 via updates to Intrepid and Hardy [17:36] (the current release is 4.4.2 on both) [17:36] so that would be an SRU - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates [17:37] we are not really the gatekeepers for that [17:37] Yea [17:37] I decide that [17:37] and the archive admin / release teams :) [17:38] oh, sorry it's in universe now [17:38] cody-somerville: are you on the motu-sru team? [17:39] Yes. [17:39] And I'm the Xubuntu project lead. [17:40] indeed [17:40] NCommander: so there is your answer :) [17:40] Cody wanted me to run this by the QA team [17:40] * NCommander nods [17:41] we can help give it a test from proposed of course [17:41] any other other business? [17:41] What is the difference between 4.4.3 and 4.4.2? Is it primarily a bug fix release? [17:41] I have something I would like to discuss [17:42] james_w: go ahead [17:43] specifically QA of packages that are in Ubuntu but not in Debian [17:43] bughelper, checkbox, what else? [17:43] heno: was just thinking of checkbox :) [17:43] apport counts I guess [17:43] we have around 800 packages in universe that are not in Debian, and we don't have the QA we get from packages maintained in Debian. [17:43] python-launchpad-bugs ;) [17:44] ah, QA _of_ packages [17:44] james_w: is that list available somewhere? [17:44] sorry, misread that [17:45] http://paste.ubuntu.com/74424/ [17:45] LINK received: http://paste.ubuntu.com/74424/ [17:45] james_w: is there an effort to get those packages into Debian, or is that what you're wanting to discuss? [17:45] there is not much effort, and that would be one good thing to happen [17:46] getting 800 packages in to Debian is not going to be a quick thing though, so I would like to discuss what to do in the meantime [17:46] bdmurray, yes, its a bug fix release (there was one new feature added to xfwm4 however) [17:47] http://paste.ubuntu.com/74425/ [17:47] LINK received: http://paste.ubuntu.com/74425/ [17:47] that's the number of open bugs per package [17:47] and the number of people that subscribe to the bug mail of each package [17:48] so there are not that many bugs reported against these packages [17:48] james_w: what sort of QA is needed in your view? testing, triage, lintian/piuparts? [17:48] that's really my question. [17:48] a bug day to look into the state of them further perhaps? [17:49] We don't have much visibility in to the quality of these packages, so in the QA team's opinion what would be the most valuable and worthwhile things to do to make sure that we are not shipping bad packages from this set [17:49] heno: Isn't 800 a lot for a single day? [17:49] james_w: hrm, as a process thing going forward, I wonder if the submitter of the package should be auto-subscribed to that package's bugs, as a "you added it, you get to maintain it" [17:49] heno: yes, a bug day for the un-triaged open bugs would be a good idea I think [17:49] sbeattie: yes, I would advocate that policy, I don't know if it is possible to do it automatically. [17:50] sbeattie: when I sponsor a new package I immediately point the submitter to the package page with a hint that they should subscribe [17:51] schwuk: looks like less than 800 bugs to me [17:52] the package with 82 bugs is worth looking at though :) [17:52] james_w: couldn't some of these be removed off the list like python-launchpadlib ... [17:52] james_w: something else that may be of interest: correlating the packages with popcon numbers [17:53] sbeattie: that would be yes [17:53] heno: I was referring to the package count, the bug count is a lot lower :) [17:53] bdmurray: well, that one is superbly maintained :-) [17:53] I think there are some others like that too. [17:54] schwuk: right, but we can get a machine to list just the bugs ;) [17:54] I'm happy to keep toying with this to see what I can find, and I'll keep you posted on the results. [17:54] I think a bug day is a good idea though, so I can help to set it up if it is desired [17:55]