/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/21/#ubuntu-motu.txt

james_wI have no objection to that, and I will happily add my concern as the first bit of feedback if that doesn't convince you to weaken your argument :-)00:00
persiaOh.  I don't think that this process solves the problem of not having stuff stored in a useful location.00:00
* Hobbsee wonders where this wiki page is?00:01
persiahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/News00:01
persiajames_w, I took Edgy mostly off (well, X wouldn't start for about 3 months).  When I came back, things were a little different.00:02
james_wwell, I wasn't going that far, just that it makes it harder for just any developer to send the mail to -devel-annouce. The wiki page means that even if those who initially agree to shepherd the process disappear there is nothing lost00:02
persiaHaving a list of news-type postings wouldn't have helped me much.00:02
Hobbseeah, thanks00:03
persialists.ubuntu.com has full archives of all submissions to the news team.00:03
james_wpersia: hopefully that will be one thing we can discuss at Hobbsee's UDS session, or at least during UDS.00:03
james_wpersia: any objection to me adding a note that no-one has actually asked the news team yet?00:04
persiajames_w, That works for me.00:04
persiaNo.00:04
Hobbseejames_w: indeed.00:05
persiajames_w, So you're thinking intro in the next MOTU meeting, chatting at UDS, and decision in the following MOTU meeting?00:05
ograHobbsee's UDS session ? we're discussing Hobbsee ?00:05
ograwhere can i subscribe ?00:05
Hobbseeogra: yes, clearly we're discussing how much I suck.  i'm sure certain flamers will be delighted to attend...00:06
james_wpersia: well, that feels heavyweight for me. I don't feel we need a MOTU decision about this.00:06
ograoh, i thought we can dress you up in funny ways ... :) "wear these shoes with that hat i just found online"00:06
Hobbseeogra: oh dear...00:07
james_wpersia: If you wish to ask for one that is fine00:07
persiajames_w, That wiki page says "Will be introduced at the 28th November MOTU Meeting".  I didn't add that part.00:07
Hobbseeogra: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/retaining-ubuntu-developers00:07
persiaPersonally, I think it's nice to discuss things at MOTU Meetings.00:08
james_wmy proposal to the lists was going to be that if there was no clear consensus on  on the wiki page soon then I would just ask for volunteers to go the news-team route00:08
ograHobbsee, subscribed00:08
Hobbseeogra: oh dear ;)00:08
ogra:)00:08
james_wthe MOTU meeting just gave a nice milestone at which to make that call.00:08
* Hobbsee is apparently going to get the entire development team subscribed to this.00:08
Hobbseeperhaps i'm just going to get lynchmobbed at the end?00:08
james_wwe can add it to the agenda if it is desired00:08
TheMusopersia: Since you will be offline for a while, what is your position re your merges? Do you want them taken care of?00:09
persiajames_w, OK, although we've had a lot of fairly dead-end ML discussions recently.  I'd like to get back to the relatively quicker route of using MOTU Meetings to quick review/approve/proceed with basic stuff00:09
james_wpersia: yeah, I was trying to avoid a long ML discussion, by having a short non-ML discussion and calling your proposal the winner if we didn't get anywhere00:10
persiaTheMuso, I should only have lash (which is annoying tarball-in-tarball) and matchbox-window-manager (which stefanlsd already did) outstanding.  freqtweak still shouldn't be merged, unless someone wants pain.  There's a couple useful bits in debian, but no code patches.00:10
james_wmatchbox is uploaded00:11
persiaTheMuso, If I get new ones, and someone grabs them, I won't complain (this is a standing policy: excepting freqtweak, I don't really care if people upload stuff I uploaded last, and freqtweak is mostly special because the Debian tarball is so ugly, and it's orphaned, and nobody has made any useful improvements.00:11
persiajames_w, Ah.  I was waiting to look at the BTS entry, but thank you.00:12
TheMusopersia: Ok fair enough.00:12
persiaAnd I won't actually cause the pain to anyone merging freqtweak: they just get to try to track down the very different ways Bart and I chose to work with dead upstream, and figure how just how many of my patches Bart finally applied, or whether some bits are missing.00:14
* persia should really try to adopt it again: it's been long enough that maybe it won't get blocked this time00:14
james_wpersia: thanks for your help00:25
JonReaganyeeehaaaw!  the upload worked, and the lintian issue I had earlier has been resolved!00:25
JonReagannow all that's left as far as issues are concerned is my changelog... apparently something is "missing or invalid"00:26
persiaDid you use dch --create to create your changelog?00:26
JonReaganoh, when was I supposed to do that?00:26
persiaThat's the preferred way to construct debian/changelog00:27
JonReaganit has a changelog included in debian/00:27
persiastefanlsd, bug 506352 looks perfect.  Well described and well tagged.  Thank you very much.00:28
ubottuError: Launchpad bug 506352 could not be found00:28
persiaJonReagan, Right, but you got a complaint that it's missing or invalid.  I'm guessing there's something funny with that changelog.00:28
james_wHobbsee: still around?00:28
Hobbseejames_w: yes00:28
james_wHobbsee: on to point 2 in your brainstorm.txt :-)00:28
JonReaganah, k, thanks... I remember seeing a page for the changelog on the wiki.  I'll give that a look00:29
HobbseeJonReagan: hurrah!00:29
Hobbseejames_w: woot :)00:29
james_wHobbsee: "- Wiki documentation!" <- what do you mean by that?00:29
Hobbseejames_w: kinda the news stuff that was being discussed earlier, and a bit that I mentioned yesterday about the triaging with jono00:31
Hobbseejames_w: we need a good way of saying 'Here's the latest information you need to know, in digest form'00:31
james_wby digest do you mean like a diff from when you last knew everything?00:32
Hobbseejames_w: most of hte discussions happen after long threads on the mailing list, and don't get put somewhere where someone can take 10 minutes to read and think on what's been decided, and remember it00:32
Hobbseejames_w: maybe it should be something like "major decisions / changes made in <release>"00:32
Hobbseeand just keep updating the wiki page00:32
james_whmm, I'm having trouble seeing how that is different from the news stuff00:32
Hobbseewe don't actually have that many, iirc - but stuff like the maintainer field change, which has changed again.00:32
Hobbseei don't think it is, as such, except that I thought you were sending out the news in chunks, whereas what I was thinking was one page that routinely gets updated after every major decision.  I think one would be taken from the other and sent out :)00:33
james_wfor that one you just get it pointed out the first time you get it wrong :-)00:33
Hobbsee(i think they're both needed)00:33
Hobbseewell...00:33
* Hobbsee wonders if you can rss-ize wiki pages.00:34
james_wthat was my proposal for how the news would work00:34
Hobbseeright, yes00:34
james_wyou can subscribe by mail on moin00:34
Hobbseeit was a rather unedited brain-dump.00:34
james_w. o 0 (email2rss?)00:34
persiajames_w, The issue is that the news thing serves a slightly different purpose.00:34
Hobbseebut i do think it's important to have a listing where one does *not* have to chain thru bits of mailing list archives to read them, too00:34
persiajames_w, The "Today's best practices" document is more useful, especially if it's fed to everyone every cycle, and required to be updated for major decisions.00:35
Hobbseecontent-wise, one would definetly be a subset of the other - in fact, the wiki'd version would probably be an amalgamation of all the posts that had been sent out00:35
james_wpersia: perhaps we have a different idea of what the news thing would be then00:35
persiaIt's not so much news, as a quick explanation of current practices and pointers to current Docs.00:35
persiaWe maintained one up to Breezy or so, but then lost track.00:35
james_wpersia: ah, I haven't seen that, does it still exist?00:36
Hobbseethat's a point. i'd not realised that was persia's definition either :)00:36
james_wI'm having trouble seeing how it is different to the wiki though00:36
persiaWhat?00:36
Hobbseejames_w: in my proposal?00:36
persiaI think the news thing is interesting from a news perspective.  I'd like to see news.00:36
persiaI just don't think news solves the issue of maintaining a useful wiki page of knowledge or practices.00:37
james_werm, sorry, typing too quickly00:37
james_wdoes the Breezy "best practices" document still exist somewhere, I would be interested in reading it.00:37
persiaMy disagreement about new implementation is fairly minor, and only about the implementation.00:37
persiaI'm looking for it.00:37
james_wthanks00:38
james_wmy other point was that the "current" state stuff is just the wiki documentation isn't it?00:38
Hobbseecurrent state stuff?00:38
persiaWell, yes, but it would be nice to have a summary bullet page.00:38
Hobbseejames_w: btw, if you're taking notes of this discussion, along with annotations, i'd apprecaite them sent to me, etc.00:39
james_wwhile there may be valid concerns about it being incomplete or hard to navigate that would be different to being something that would be missing00:39
Hobbseejames_w: i'm not sure I'll be able to run such a high profile session completely on my own :P00:39
persiaMind you, the wiki in general needs help, and many of the recent semi-incomplete revamps haven't helped (and I share responsibility for at least two of them)00:39
james_wI'm trying to grasp if there is something missing, or it is just insufficient effort in maintaining the wiki.00:40
persiajames_w, The part that's oft considered "missing" is the "Well, I've been away for a while: how do I get started again" page.00:40
james_wand I'm also having trouble envisioning what would be on the "summary bullet page" as opposed to a general wiki documentation index.00:41
Hobbseepersia++00:42
james_wpersia: in what ways does a list of the decisions taken and new tools, processes, and best practices not provide that?00:42
james_w(damn, just noticed a thinko in my mail)00:43
persiajames_w, It's a TLDR thing.00:44
persiajames_w, You're entirely correct, but the trick is to make it look trivially easy, rather than wading through history.00:44
Hobbseepersia: TLDR?00:44
persiaI'm also very much not convinced that some things would make that news, as they happen gradually enough nobody notices unless they've been away for a while.00:44
persiaHobbsee, Too-Long-Didn't-Read.00:45
Hobbseepersia: oh :)00:45
* persia almost never suffers from that problem, but knows that many do, and avoiding it is key to making something that looks useful00:45
james_whmm, a way for someone to catch up on all changes in a certain time frame without at least looking over a list of the changes within that timeframe? neat.00:45
persiajames_w, Right.  It's a bit of a snark00:46
persiajames_w, The two easy solutions are 1) don't change anything (people change, not gonna happen)00:46
directhexi think it's meant to be written "tl;dr"00:46
james_wsome things not making it is a valid concern though. I'm not sure any process will easily capture things happening too slowly to notice.00:47
persia2) Create a semi-accurate short summary document "Jaunty Development is different than Intrepid Development in these four ways".00:47
persiaThat's clearly incomplete, but satisfies the desire for understanding.00:47
persiajames_w, And no, it's not a substitute for the wiki being dredged properly.00:47
james_wpersia: I agree with your two points. That is one role that I see the news things filling.00:47
persiaAnd to me, it's completely separate from news.  I'd like to hear more about what people are planning and doing, but that's not process and the like.00:48
james_wIntrepid was released on this date, here is a list of things that happened since that date, each a title and one paragraph with links for more information seems like a good way to organise it00:49
Hobbseejames_w: i don't *actually* think there's that many decisions that get taken, in a cycle, on a technical note, for things that are required for later releases.  dh_icons, major X dependancy changes, mono changes, maintainer field changes, that kind of thing was what I was imagining.  Were you thinking of other type of things apart from that?00:49
persiaSee, I want news to have things like "We've decided to move to X 1.6, with the following implications"  "The new armel port is underway, has these outstanding issues, but is otherwise in fairly good shape"  "OpenJDK will now be the default Java for Ubuntu, so everything should be aligned to work with that".00:49
directhexpersia, i'm planning and doing things. perhaps you've hard of them? :p00:49
persiadirecthex, Yes.  you sent mail.  Thank you.00:50
james_wHobbsee: in my head it would be a superset of those things, including the things that persia lists.00:50
persiajames_w, None of these are interesting to someone who has been away for 6 months, as they're mostly done, or not actively important.  What is interesting is "There's a new team called UUC" or "We can do normal uploads or bzr pushes now" or "Soyuz *finally* supports orig.tar.bz2, so don't bother re-wrapping the source".00:51
james_wskimming the titles would hopefully allow you to quickly see "dh_iconcache is deprecated, use dh_icons" and read that, but skip over "OpenJDK will now be the default Java for Ubuntu" if you don't work on Java packages.00:51
persiaIt's not whether one works on Java packages.00:51
persiaIt's that it's not even interesting to someone who does work on Java packages who's been away for a while.00:52
persiait's obvious from looking at the state of the stack.00:52
Hobbseejames_w: right, yes.00:52
james_wand with the list of everything it would be easier for interested parties to compile the list of things that affect the workflow00:52
persiaarmel is news today.  In 6 months, it won't have mattered.00:52
persiaOh, sure.  The news can be a source of input to a "What changed" wiki page, and an important one.  I just think they are different.00:53
james_wpersia: if it is obvious, how hard is it to skip it?00:53
persiajames_w, You're missing my point.00:53
persiaThe problem is not that the information doesn't exist.00:54
persiaIt's easy to collect by skimming the ubuntu-devel@ archives, reading the ubuntu-devel-announce@ archives, and going through the MOTU Meeting minutes.00:54
persiaSometimes it's worth going through the CC and TB minutes also, but those usually have slightly less effect to most developers (with a few key exceptions).00:55
persiaThe problem is that people don't want to read that.00:55
james_wok, I would say that the list of news items would provide an acceptable granularity to me.00:56
persiajames_w, I understand that.00:56
james_wgiven the opposite, but lesser, concern that too much filtering will lead to things of interest to someone being left out.00:57
persiaMost of the old devs who swing by need to be caught fast.  Anything that doesn't fit in a quick span of vague attention will get skipped ("Bah, too much changed"), unless there's some external motivation to engage again.00:57
persiaThere have been a few who went away and came back.00:58
james_wand I'm satisfied if work on the news project can make it easier to achieve what you want.00:58
persiaThere have been many who went away, came back for a day or two, said hi, asked a coupe questions, and left saying it was confusing.00:58
persiaI don't think the news archive would serve them, and there's few others who would clearly benefit.00:58
persiajames_w, Um.  Firstly, I don't really care if this exists.  I'd rather have a "current best practices" document than "changes since when", and to push it to everyone every few months.00:59
persiajames_w, Also, I think there's *huge* value in news regardless of this other thing.00:59
persiaMy only objection is that I don't think news in-and-of-itself addresses the request.01:00
james_wok, I can accept that01:00
james_wwould your "best practices" thing be like the dev-ref, but more useful?01:00
persiajames_w, Shorter, more based on variation from current Debian practice, and more useful.01:01
james_wok01:01
persiaWhlie there's lots of people who don't come from Debian, it remains a great source of documentation, and I think listing things like "Everything is maintained by teams, and the current maintainer string should be taken as guidance rather than restriction" is more useful than "Ubuntu is collaborative, and works on the basis of collected and contributed patches by interested parties".01:02
persiaWriting that takes a bunch or work by someone (and I'd still like to find the old one), but it's punchy, and if we make it a practice to put all significant choices and decisions there, it becomes a useful reference, even if much of it ends up being pointers to more verbose explanations.01:03
* james_w nods01:04
james_wHobbsee: another one for you :-)01:05
persiaAnyway, I'm not especially promoting that right now, as I don't have the idea for it strongly enough to start drafting something.01:05
james_wHobbsee: "- Decrease sponsorship times, for various teams"01:05
james_wpersia: yeah, it sounds like something I would like to see, but I don't want to walk down that path just now.01:05
Hobbseejames_w: hmm?01:09
james_wHobbsee: sorry, I mean I'm not sure what you mean by that.01:09
persiareducing time from subscription to upload01:09
Hobbseejames_w: the sponsorship queues can get very long01:09
james_wI thought you might mean people feel like they have to spend too much time sponsoring01:10
Hobbseeoh01:10
persiaFrustratingly, when the sponsoring queue is in the 30-40 range, there are lots of sponsors.  When it gets above 50, it seems all sponsoring mostly stops for a while.01:10
Hobbseehadn't thought of it that way01:10
james_wor perhaps that applications took too long to process01:10
persiaProbably just needs work on how we organise sponsoring.01:10
james_wjust delete items if it threatens to hit 50?01:11
persiaNo.01:11
james_wdamn01:11
persiaI've gone through it about 10 times and pushed out non-debdiffs to get down to the magic number, but people kept yelling at me for that, so I stopped.01:12
Hobbseeheh01:12
Hobbseei liked that solution too :P01:12
Hobbseeand shoving debian stuff out of the queue, after it was already in ubuntu01:12
persiaThe idea was to add a tag to them, and have interested contributors use that tag to make debdiffs, which seemed to work, but generated a lot of bugmail, and annoyed some patch authors who didn't know how to make debdifs, and didn't espectially want to learn.01:13
* james_w notes that the universe queue is at 4901:13
persiajames_w, Thank you for that.01:13
james_wwithout pruning stuff that shouldn't really be on there01:13
* persia isn't sure if this is good or bad.01:14
persiaEither we're not getting that many submissions, or there's been an immense amount of work done.01:15
james_wit's dropped by almost 100 in the last week01:16
persiaWhat's your guess on merges vs. bugfixes by count?01:16
serialorderi have a question I was hoping to get some help with, i am fairly new to all this01:17
james_w90% merges/syncs of the newer items01:17
persiaserialorder, What's the question.01:17
james_w(i.e. anything added since Intrepid)01:17
serialorderi am attempting to apply to create patch  a simple bug fix and repackage01:17
persiajames_w, Right.  That means we're not getting enough submissions.01:17
persiaserialorder, Excellent.  That's why we're here.01:18
persiaHave you determined which patch fixes the bug?01:18
serialorderthat part went fine but just out of curiosity I ran licensecheck -r --copyright . and noticed there are several copyright holders listed in the output that are not in debain/copyright01:18
persiaserialorder, Which package?01:18
serialorderuml-utilities01:19
persiaserialorder, That's probably not worth fixing directly, but it is worth filing a bug about it.  Extra points for filing the bug in the Debian BTS.01:19
james_wpersia: 250 sponsored uploads this week, which is around average I think01:19
serialorderok so i will file a bug about it01:20
james_wI think that number is right01:20
persiajames_w, Roughly, yeah.01:20
serialorderare you saying I should file in both or only Debain BTS01:20
persiaserialorder, I like both linked, but lots of people would say only the Debian BTS.01:21
serialorderok, thanks for the help persia01:21
persiaIt's not something we fix in Ubuntu for packages in Debian, except in very special cases (e.g. where one of the missing authors complains).01:21
persiaSo the only reason for the Ubuntu bug is to track the Debian bug, and maybe provide an announcement in case anyone wants to complain.01:21
serialorderoh ok, that is good to know01:22
serialorderthis can all be a bit daunting at first01:22
persiaserialorder, The basic rule is: if it's a package only in Ubuntu, we fix everything we can for every upload.01:23
persiaIf it's a pacakge also in Debian, we mostly concentrate on bugfixes, or adjustments to make it work better in Ubuntu.  We send all the bugfixes also to Debian and upstream so everyone benefits.01:23
persiaThe exceptions are usually for release freezes of one sort or another, where certain types of uploads become restricted.01:24
serialorderif the fix closes a bug I am supposed to include something like (closes: #<bug number>) in the change log correct?01:26
persiaLP: #nnnnnnn01:26
persiacloses: is used to close Debian bugs.01:26
serialorderthanks , i thought it did'nt look right01:27
persiajames_w, My apologies, but I'm not finding it.  I've looked through about 1000 wiki page titles, and maybe 75 pages, but I think it's gone.01:29
james_wpersia: no problem, thanks for looking :-)01:30
persiaI remember it mentioning the GCC ABI change, and the X libraries transition, and stuff like that.01:30
james_wpersia: if you ever stumble across it I would like to see it01:30
persiaSure.01:30
persiaProblem is that it takes about a month (straight) to read the wiki, so it's easy to lose stuff.01:30
persiaI've still not actually finished processing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/WikiCleanUp/SomeReviewNotes01:31
persiaThat it exists still, the date it was last edited, and the number of referenced pages that still exist are a good indication of just how much cruft is there.01:32
james_wIs there somewhere I can read up on what clean-la.mk is trying to fix?01:42
james_wdoes it just make .la files less useful, but make dependency management easier?01:42
RAOFAargh.  Must not reply to mono troll on ubuntu-motu@01:47
HobbseeRAOF: yes, you musn't.  I already got a lovely reply to *my* mail to him today.01:47
RAOF(Hopefully by putting that determination in the public sphere, I'll be able to actually resist)01:48
HobbseeRAOF: yes.  Try very hard not to feed the trolls.  Go find beer instead ;)01:48
RAOFHm.  I suppose the sun /is/ over the yardarm...01:49
persiajames_w, My (vague) understanding is that it's trying to avoid .la files, and discourage both use and the possibility they might be used at build time to make dependency chains more sensible.  Unfortunately, I don't know of any good doc about it.01:54
james_wpersia: ok, thanks.01:55
james_wI'm looking at a sponsorship request, and whether to forward the change to Debian01:55
persiaWhich one?01:56
james_wthe changelog entry when it was introduced was about "fixing" the .la file, which makes it sound like something that should be, but I'm pretty convinced it's not something to forward01:56
james_wthough it seems a little odd to do it on a per-package basis01:56
james_wbug 29935001:57
ubottuLaunchpad bug 299350 in libnxml "Please merge libnxml 0.18.3-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29935001:57
persiajames_w, I'll agree it's odd to do on a per-package basis.  On the other hand, I can see iulian's arguments, and think that including that is useful.02:01
persia.la based dependency chains get *very* annoying.02:01
james_wI guess if it involves packaging modifications not appropriate for Debian to cope with the stripped .las anyway then we wouldn't gain anything by doing it for all packages02:02
persiaThe per-package basis might be to preserve those cases where we *need* .la files, or it might be part of an attempt at a gentle introduction to Debian.02:02
persiaI think current Debian practices to reduce dependencies are moving in different directions (from what small bits I see), but until there's a reduction in the Debian pacakge itself, it probably has some value.02:03
persiaI wouldn't forward this patch to Debian, personally, it's far too awkward, relies on Ubuntu infrastruture, etc.02:04
james_wyeah, I just wondered if the "fix" was a "fix", and so we should send a bug report.02:04
persiaWell, yes and no.02:06
persiaIt's a "fix", but it's not clear if the problem being fixed either exists or is important in Debian.02:06
persiapitti or slangasek would be the experts on this.  My main argument against sending it back is that I can't find a bug for clean-la.mk on CDBS.02:09
persiaI'd presume that if that were applicable to Debian, it would be there.02:09
slangasekpff, name droppers.  Can someone give me some summary context?02:12
=== ubott2 is now known as ubottu
slangasekjames_w: so what clean-la.mk does is munge the .la files in the installed package so that there are no dependencies.  It has been debated whether this is a correct thing to do, but the strongest opponent to it is Keybuk, who won't stand in the way of pushing it to Debian if that's the question02:14
james_wslangasek: the question boiled down to whether using clean-la.mk indicated that there was a bug in the package that should be reported to Debian02:15
slangasekare you asking whether a patch should be forwarded up to Debian to /use/ clean-la.mk, or are you asking whether the use of clean-la.mk implies bugginess in the package?02:16
persiaThe latter02:16
slangasekthen no02:17
james_wthanks slangasek02:20
JonReaganis a debian/watch file necessary for a package?02:21
persiaJonReagan, It's very strongly recommended for packages that are not also in Debian, so we can more easily track when a new upstream is available.02:21
JonReaganah... k, thanks.02:22
persiaIf a debian/watch file cannot be constructed, please construct a get-orig-source rule.02:22
james_wbug 299353 is an interesting one02:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 299353 in libkipi "Please merge libkipi 0.1.6-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29935302:22
persiaMany reviewers will not advocate a package without one of the two.02:22
JonReaganpersia: thanks02:22
* persia seems to remember being disturbed by libkipi previously02:23
james_wthe -common package is gone, so the libpackage should ship its own icons, but that would seemingly make libkipi0 and libkipi5 not co-installable.02:23
james_wand a quick glance suggests to me that removing libkipi0 is tied up with the KDE4 transition, so I'm not chasing that rabbit02:25
serialorderok persia I have another question02:26
persiaI'd be suspicious of that.  Last merge by that merger I reviewed was a thoughtless copy&paste.02:26
persiaserialorder, Just ask generally.  I could have fallen asleep by now :)02:26
serialorderwell i saw you typing away02:26
serialorderbut point taken02:26
james_wpersia: suspicious of what?02:27
persiajames_w, Suspicious of the merge because 1) it's adding a dependency to a package that doesn't exist, and 2) I had a poor experience with the last merge from the same person.02:28
persia(that was last week or earlier this week or something)02:28
Hobbseeoh, that's always a good one.02:29
* Hobbsee encountered that a while ago, but then discovered an out of date cache.02:29
james_wpersia: yeah, I'm talking about what should happen, the proposed debdiff is certainly wrong02:29
serialorderthe package I have been working on, uml-utilities was never synced in hardy or intrepid, last version that has an ubuntu specific build is in gutsy02:29
serialorderwhen I post the fix to this bug should I also create a sync request bug as well?02:30
persiajames_w, Well, there are two options.  #1) unsub the sponsors and leave a comment saying what should be done, or #2 (my favorite) do it yourself, ignore the debdiff, and close the bug.02:30
persiaI often attach the correct debdiff to a bug so that the merger can examine the difference, and include a paragraph about why it was completely wrong.02:31
james_wpersia: I'm trying to do number two02:31
persiaThis is just a clear case of trusting MoM.02:31
persiaI'd be tempted to sync, if that's the outstanding change02:32
Hobbseejames_w: libkipi-common is gone?02:32
* persia looks harder at the debdiff02:32
persiaNo, it's there.  I read rmadison wrong.02:32
persiajames_w, Ignore most of what I've said.02:32
james_wHobbsee: I looked at the last upload of the source package02:32
james_w...that used to provide it02:32
* persia goes back to the list of things that are annoying, but must be done, rather than making more mistakes here.02:32
james_whas it moved?02:33
persialibkipi-common | 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu3 |        jaunty | amd64, i38602:33
Hobbseepersia: er, that'd be old02:33
Hobbseekdegraphics | 4:4.1.3-1ubuntu1 |        jaunty | source02:33
Hobbseejames_w: would be right, there, and it needs to be NBSd out02:33
* persia tries harder to avoid making mistakes by stopping typing02:35
james_wHobbsee: I'm trying :-)02:35
james_wit would have been uploaded by now if the solution was obvious02:35
Hobbseeheh02:35
james_wlibkipi0 Depends: libkipi5?02:36
Hobbseewhere?02:39
james_wno, that's my suggestion02:39
Hobbseeoh02:39
james_wlibkipi0 would then have the icons it needs installed02:39
james_wthey would still be co-installable02:39
james_wand builds would still work as the -dev symlink wouldn't change02:40
james_wit does make me want to take a shower though02:40
Hobbseeer, is making the kde3 version depend on the kde4 version a really wise move?02:41
james_woh, there's a kdegraphics-kde402:41
Hobbseeyou can ask that in #kubuntu-devel, anyway02:41
james_wah, not any more02:42
Hobbseejames_w: there was, anyway.  it's been phased out, afaik.02:42
Hobbseewhen we had the emss of 2 kdes.02:42
james_wif the packages aren't co-installable then it would make it impossible to install some kde3 apps on jaunty02:42
serialorderim going to try asking this one more time02:43
serialorderthe package I have been working on, uml-utilities, the upstream version  was never synced in hardy or intrepid, last version that has an ubuntu specific build is in gutsy02:43
serialorderwhen I post the fix to this bug should I also create a sync request bug as well?02:43
james_woh, sorry serialorder, missed your question02:44
james_wserialorder: I don't see a new version in Debian we can sync02:44
serialorderhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/source/uml-utilities02:44
james_wbut you mean update to the new upstream version02:44
serialorderthat is where i am looking02:44
serialordermaybe that is the wrong place?02:45
serialorderor im using the wrong words02:45
james_w"sync" has a specific meaning in Ubuntu, usually to pull in a version of a package from Debian02:45
james_win this case we have the same version as Debian, so there is nothing to sync02:45
james_wif there is a new upstream then it would be possible to update to that though02:45
serialorderok maybe i am confused then02:45
serialorderis there a reason the versions in hardy and intrepid dunot have an ubuntu ending?02:46
Yasumotojames_w: Wow, I probably should've thought about that. Thanks for cleaning up the formatting :)02:46
Yasumoto(re: ubuntu dev news)02:46
james_wYasumoto: no problem02:46
james_wYasumoto: apologies if I munged your meaning at all02:47
Yasumotonot at all, thanks02:48
serialorderjames_w: I think im confused then, is there a reason the versions in hardy and intrepid do not have an ubuntu# ending?02:48
Hobbseejames_w: they're coinstallable, no question, it's just whether one should be able to remove the kde4 version if desired that is the question02:49
* Hobbsee apparently can't type today02:49
james_wserialorder: that means that the package is unmodified from Debian02:49
serialorderare those only introduced when there is a bug fix introduced in ubuntu but not upstream02:49
serialorderahhh ok02:49
james_wHobbsee: yes, but a sync would mean they were no longer co-installable.02:49
james_wHobbsee: and given that ubuntu is now kde4 I'm not sure why you would want to remove a kde4 lib from your system02:50
Hobbseejames_w: point taken.02:50
Hobbseejames_w: unless you ran it on gnome, and didn't want more kde deps than you absolutely had to have.02:51
james_wI agree it's not nice, but neither is a lib shipping images02:51
Hobbseeit being stuff like digikam : that's a real scenario02:51
Hobbseedebian should be able to be reasoned with, though.02:51
serialorderjames_w: last question, so if i applied a patch and rebuilt to resolve the bug then in launchpad all I need to do is attach the debdiff and subscribe sponsors right?02:51
james_wbut if Riddell dropped -common then he may have a plan02:51
Hobbseethey're pretty good, there, and the kde guys have connections02:51
YasumotoRAOF: thanks for being so patient/helping me merge :)02:51
james_wserialorder: correct02:52
serialordersweet thanks!02:52
RAOFYasumoto: No problem.  You noticed that I added another missed remaining change to the changelog, I guess?02:52
james_wHobbsee: I'll talk to someone in the morning. Thanks for your advice02:52
Hobbseejames_w: you're welcome.02:52
YasumotoRAOF: yeah, thanks for catching that02:54
jmarsdenWhere can I find out how to package something, where the original source package format is a .zip ?03:00
jmarsdenNot a .tar.gz or tar.bz2 as is "normal"03:00
Hobbseejmarsden: unzip, tar & gz it?03:00
Hobbseeafaik, there's no actual 'difference' than it would be with a normal package03:01
jmarsdenI can,. but I think there is supposed to be a way to do it... http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-first.en.html says you can but it "takes more knowledge..." ?03:01
james_whmm, libkipi5 doesn't Conflict/Replace libkipi-common03:01
james_wisn't that required for moving files between packages?03:02
james_wthe changelog says "(add conflicts/replaces)" but it doesn't add those ones at least03:02
* Hobbsee notes the possibility of a bad merge03:02
Hobbseebut, you'd think so?03:03
Hobbseejmarsden: i presume that means for things like sources in git / bzr / etc03:04
Hobbseewhere you're doing a checkout03:04
Hobbseei can't imagine zip files should be on that list03:04
* james_w stops looking and will wait to ask someone more knowledgeable03:04
jmarsdenOK.  I just thought that by unzip and tar I'm making an undocumented and un-automated change to the original sources "tarball", in a way... if it's Ok to just do that, then I'll just do that :-)03:05
jmarsdenThe guide says things are compicated if ... "the source file format being neither in tar.gz. nor tar.bz2" ...03:06
Hobbseejmarsden: that's true.03:06
Hobbseejmarsden: I *suspect* it's just an oversight of the guide.03:06
jmarsdenOK, thanks.03:06
Hobbseejmarsden: but yes, document that you did unzip and tar it, so people will be able to figure out why they can't find an upstream tarball ;P03:07
jmarsdenOK :)03:07
Hobbseecertainly fro stuff like bzr & git, you want to ignore certain directories, etc.03:07
Hobbseewhich would require more knowledge03:07
RAOFjmarsden: It doesn't _have_ to be an undocumented, unautomated change to the original sources; you can easily automate this in a get-orig-source rule in your debian/rules file.03:31
jmarsdenRAOF: OK... sounds like what I was thinking of... any quick pointers to examples of that or a tutorial or something?03:32
RAOFhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball03:32
jmarsdenThanks!03:32
bainCan some motu take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit04:14
bainit has already received some prilim review04:14
x1250hey guys, could someone please tell me why this happens at line 70? http://paste.ubuntu.com/75079/04:22
x1250dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy:04:22
RAOFx1250: I'd guess the problem is that you don't have universe enabled in your pbuilder chroot.04:28
x1250RAOF, right. Thanks.04:31
jsmidtI have been looking at harvest and found a package called moodbar has a patch from fedora for it.04:50
jsmidtHow do I figure out what the patch does?04:50
jsmidtThe patch is found on the fedora website.04:51
jsmidtHere: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/moodbar/moodbar-0.1.2-glib.patch?view=markup04:51
jsmidtI would like to learn to patch packages but am sure in the changelog you want to state why the package is being patched.04:52
jsmidtOr do I just say something like: "patched with fedora patch"?04:52
RAOFYou'd _definitely_ need to know what the patch does before doing anything else.05:05
RAOFAs for how to work this out... it depends.  If they've been nice and documented it, the patch should have something telling you what it actually does, or a reference to a bug to follow up, or somesuch.05:05
RAOFIf it _doesn't_, then you need to use initiative; see if you can read what the patch does.  See if you can find the first time the patch appeared in the Fedora package; what bugs did that release fix?  Etc.05:06
jsmidtRAOF, thanks.  This is what I needed to know.  I was just wondering if fedora had an official way of documenting their patches and thought if so you guys would know about it.05:11
RAOFjsmidt: Now that I've actually _looked_ at the patch, it's obvious what it's doing, and I'd guess we don't need to (or have already) apply it; if we didn't have something like that, moodbar would be quite consistently crashing.06:01
jsmidtRAOF, okay, thanks.06:04
RAOFjsmidt: Obviously, if there are a bunch of segfault bugs on launchpad, it's worth investigating :)06:05
RAOFFailing that, I'd guess we've already got it.06:05
jsmidtRAOF, yeah, I'm new at this.  I'm just trying to track down bugs I know I can fix, especially ones where there is already a patch. :)06:06
RAOFYeah.  That's the important part; you start with the bug, then find (or write) the patch.  Such is the way of things :)06:07
dholbachgood morning06:38
iulianGood morning dholbach.06:40
dholbachhi iulian06:40
jsmidtdholbach, I am reading a guide I belive you wrote.  I found a bug and patch and patched the package and created a debdiff.  Now your guide says "You can now attach the debdiff to a bug report or send it to the relevant person. "  Who would that be?06:41
jsmidtShould I just make a bug report?06:42
jsmidtOr is there someone specific I should track down?06:42
dholbachjsmidt: if you want to get a patch uploaded, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess06:42
jsmidtdholbach, thanks.06:42
dholbachbasically attach the bug to an existing bug report or file a new one with all the information, then subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors (for main/restricted) or ubuntu-universe-sponsors (for *verse)06:43
dholbachI'll fix the doc06:43
dholbachthanks for the feedback jsmidt06:43
jsmidtdholbach, thanks.06:43
dholbachrock on jsmidt!06:44
=== doko_ is now known as doko
didrocksmorning o/07:14
nellerydholbach: hi, I'm having some trouble with bug 30054707:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 300547 in modconf "Please merge modconf 0.3.9 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30054707:15
nelleryattempting to build it with the proper dependency fails07:15
nellerydo you have any ideas?07:15
dholbachnellery: let me see07:33
nellerydholbach: I've just attached the debdiff's which failed to the bug report07:33
Yasumotodoes MoM get updated frequently?07:34
dholbachnellery: did you try just taking the debian version and changing the build-dep to linux-source-2.6.27?07:41
dholbachnellery: that built fine for me07:41
nellerydholbach: there we go, I got it07:51
nelleryis that the only change necessary?07:51
dholbachnellery: I don't know07:52
dholbachI have no idea how modconf works and what else might be necessary to make it work07:52
dholbachwhich changes were necessary between 0.3.7 and 0.3.7ubuntu1?07:53
nellerydholbach: it looks like it was just the build-dep change07:55
dholbachdoes the newly built version work in jaunty?07:56
nellerydholbach: it builds fine in jaunty07:58
dholbachnellery: does it work too?07:58
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
dholbachsorry, got kicked out08:03
dholbachnellery: does it work too?08:03
nellerydholbach: sorry, I had to run away for a sec08:09
nelleryI'm very sorry, but I have to leave08:09
dholbachnellery: no worries, I need to leave too08:09
dholbachjust follow up on the bug repotr08:09
dholbachand thanks for looking into this08:09
nelleryalright, once I confirm everything works08:09
nellerythanks for your help :)08:09
dholbachnor worries08:10
baincan some motu please take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit09:50
bainit has already received a prilim review09:50
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
kiko-afkhello gentlemen10:38
=== kiko-afk is now known as kiko
kikono use pretending10:38
kikoanybody feel like merging a patch to unbreak syncropated? fix > 10 dupes in the process? I wrote the patch so it's obviously right <wink>10:38
kikohttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syncropated/+bug/20035710:38
ubottuUbuntu bug 200357 in syncropated "syncropated crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Undecided,Confirmed]10:38
dholbachkiko: I'll take a look at it... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess (ubuntu-universe-sponsors is the 'magic word') :-)10:47
kikomagic10:51
* kiko <- fan of dholbach 10:51
dholbachkiko: I'd love if we could just "take at the list of ubuntu bugs with patches attached", but there's so much stuff tagged as patch that does not apply or is no patch at all, so that's why we have this process as a filter10:53
Hobbseeoh, kiko's here.10:53
dholbachin a new world, merge proposals might work for it10:53
Hobbseehey :)10:54
eMerzhif someone is in a reviewing mood....my package is waiting for comments : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman10:56
kikodholbach, isn't the right solution there to go over stuff marked as patch and unmark it, or delete it?10:56
dholbachkiko: right, but it's ~1200 bugs or something10:57
dholbachkiko: I think we can slowly get there, but only slowly10:57
persiakiko, Very much unmark.  Most of the "patches" are useful as attachments, just not as patches.10:57
kikodholbach, I can do like 50 a day and then you just need to watch the queue10:58
dholbachkiko: another problem is bug status often != patch status, so it's hard to keep track of when a review is required without guessing10:59
dholbachkiko: if you can just unsubscribe a team, that's easy10:59
persiakiko, That'd be great.  We're currently only getting about 40 a day sponsored, but with real commitment to feed the rest in (tested, of course), We could probably get some more.10:59
dholbachbut anyway... I agre with you that the list of bugs with patches should be a lot lot lot shorter11:00
dholbachand people get good feedback11:00
kikodholbach, give me a link and let me see if I can go through it11:00
persiakiko, There's a bug against Malone about awkward machinations for sponsoring.  Is that maybe something that could be scheduled for a meeting sometime to look at a possible cleaner way to do things?11:01
kikopersia, give me the bug number and I'll put it on next week's agenda11:01
persiakiko, There's one on the front page of qa.ubuntuwire.com (list of bugs with patch attachments)11:02
* persia will be a few minutes digging up the bug number11:02
dholbachkiko: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.has_patch=on11:02
dholbachI think james_w had an idea about automatically testing the attachments and test-applying them11:03
dholbachbut I'm not sure I'm correct11:03
kikothat's not a bad idea -- you can at least get freshness11:03
persiakiko, bug #17985711:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 179857 in malone "Package sponsorships involve awkward bugtracker machinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17985711:04
kikopersia, dholbach: I'll also get https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/35030 fixed because that is fucking annoying11:12
ubottuUbuntu bug 35030 in malone "repeated bug in search for bugs with patches" [Medium,Confirmed]11:12
* dholbach hugs kiko11:13
dholbachthat's nice about bug lists like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-main-sponsors :-)11:13
dholbachnot repetition :)11:13
persiakiko, Cool.  Thanks for chasing this class of bugs.  It's a big help.11:16
bain can some motu please take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit11:41
bainit has already received a prilim review11:41
handschuhI'm afraid to ask, but since it is revu-day, could somebody revu a small package of mine (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uiflite) ?11:44
persiahandschuh, Don't be afraid to ask.  It's REVU day.  It's the best possible time to ask.11:45
persiaI'll take a quick look once I finish the current spec, unless someone else grabs it first.11:45
handschuhpersia: thanks !11:45
persia(or even if someone else grabs it if they advocate)11:45
* handschuh eats some lunch11:47
* cody-somerville goes to get some breakfast :)11:50
luisbg_cody-somerville, bon appetite :)11:52
persiahandschuh, Although .* is extremely greedy in perl, it can sometimes be useful in that class of watch file (but it's not worth fixing that: when it works, it's good)12:05
lagaare there various levels of greediness?12:06
persiahandschuh, Also, using ([_\d]+ and opts=uversionmangle= is another way to do it.12:06
persialaga, Yep.  Some regex processors will grab everything possible with that sort of glob.  Others will grab as little as possible.12:07
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
lagapersia: then they're not greedy at all :)12:07
persiaFor example, If I'm using /(.*)q.*/ to match lkjhlkjheqlkjhkljheqlkjh, some implementations return lkjhlkjhe and others return lkjhlkjheqlkjhkljhe12:08
persiaHrm.  I can see that.  Dunno if there's more than greedy and not greedy, but I've only played with 6 or 7 regex implementations.12:09
handschuhpersia: ok i am going to change this12:09
persiahandschuh, Really, it's not worth changing.12:09
persiahandschuh, When you get a watch file that works, keep it.12:10
persiaThese are just a couple other options that might be interesting if you run into similar issues in the future, or for you to play around with to become more familiar with watch files in general.12:10
handschuhpersia: *notices*12:11
persiahrm?12:11
* persia is mostly confused by the notation12:11
handschuhpersia: (your different way of getting the version)12:12
* handschuh notices12:12
persiaAh.  Got it.  Sorry for the confusion.12:12
persiaNote that it's perl, so TMTOWTDI is a basic axiom :)12:12
handschuhpersia: i don't  chat a lot so it is very likely that I make strange notations12:13
persiaWell, I'm glad to see you about.  I've seen your blog a bunch, but think more interactive channel discussion is a good way to learn.12:14
persiahandschuh, Also, you might find reading about the $(patsubst ...) function in make interesting.  It can save you calling out to external processes for some things.12:16
persia(or: I would have written "UIFLITE_ORIGVERSION=$(shell echo $(UIFLITE_VERSION) | sed "s/\./_/g")" differently, but it doesn't really matter)12:16
handschuhpersia: calling out ot external processes?12:16
handschuhpersia: a, ok12:17
persiaRight.  In the variable definition above, you're launching three extra processes.12:17
persiaAgain, not worth fixing: just me pointing out features in make (as I was perl and watch file options earlier)12:18
handschuhpersia: I really do appreciate it because I am a "java-only" guy that does not know much about anything else12:19
persiaI will be rejecting your license though.  It's only save to use /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD when it's "Copyright (c) The Regents of the University of California."12:20
handschuhok so i just include the original (upstream) 3-clause bsd12:21
persiaYep, because it's not actually BSD, it's BSD-like.12:21
persiaThis is why I recommend the "ISC" or "MIT" licenses for such code.  Nearly identical permissions, but less confusing.12:22
persiaOf course, it's not worth asking upstream to relicense.12:22
persiaThat's it though.  I can't find much wrong with this one.12:23
persiaSo fix debian/copyright, and I'll advocate.12:23
handschuhpersia: great, thanks12:23
handschuhpersia: so just to be sure: http://paste.ubuntu.com/75197/12:26
persiaYep.  That works.12:27
handschuhpersia: ok, I uploaded the new version12:28
eMerzhif someone is in a reviewing mood....my package is waiting for comments : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman :) thanks12:31
* handschuh is going to review eMerzh's package 12:32
eMerzh\me is happy :)12:32
eMerzhoups :D12:32
* eMerzh is happy :)12:33
handschuheMerzh: you still have the empty line in the middle of the watch-file12:33
eMerzherf12:34
handschuheMerzh: this is just a minor issue12:34
handschuheMerzh: no real issue to be specific, but if enything else is wrong with the package, you could upload this, too12:35
eMerzhhandschuh: ok...12:36
handschuheMerzh: sorry to be so padantic, but debian/changelog: "this patch corrects" (this is not important, but maybe you want to change it)12:36
handschuheMerzh: lets see, if it builds12:37
handschuhpersia: thanks for advocationg uiflite - now i can repare a new package  :-)12:44
stefanlsdScottK: you around?12:45
persiahandschuh, Well, you still need another advocate.12:46
* stefanlsd is gonna make all the guys at the company watch dholbach's motu videos in our tech session12:46
persiastefanlsd, You're pushing the corporate "Everyone is an Ubuntu Developer" model?12:46
handschuhpersia: yes, but if there are changes needed in tha package, i assume they will not be that drastical12:47
persiahandschuh, Oh, probably not.  Someone might complain more about the stuff I mentioned as alternates, but that's trivial.12:47
persiaI'd not be surprised if someone wanted Java 6 to be prioritised over Java 5 in the alternates.12:47
stefanlsdpersia: mm. no. but i think it gives people fundemental understanding around .deb stuff i think they should have.  (and im pushing my own agenda of wanting more MOTU's and devs coming out of south africa) - and hopefully this will get some of them excitied12:48
handschuheMerzh: you package successfully build, but did you run lintian on the binary package?12:49
persiastefanlsd, I'm reminded: how much do you know about building mesh networks?12:49
eMerzhhandschuh: i think i did it, but nothing shows up....you have errors?12:50
stefanlsdpersia: what kind of mesh?12:50
handschuheMerzh: W: sqliteman: copyright-without-copyright-notice12:50
persiastefanlsd, Like devices hopping to other devices ad-hoc.12:51
stefanlsdpersia: mesh like cloud stuff, or mesh re infrastructure components?12:51
handschuheMerzh: I think I know the reason: debian/changelog: under the section Copyright, there is no "Copyright (C)"12:52
eMerzhhandschuh: yep...but i should write it for each line?12:52
persiastefanlsd, infrastructure stuff.12:52
stefanlsdpersia: mm. cant say i've ever done anything specific. but do quite alot of routing stuff with load balancer and replicated services12:53
handschuheMerzh: interesting question ... I don't know ... sry (let me try to find a policy)12:53
eMerzhhandschuh:  because someone  told me that i should'nt repeat it each time12:53
handschuheMerzh: ok then, just write it in the first line of the copyright-section12:54
eMerzhhandschuh:  i think that it was persia...but not sure of that12:54
handschuheMerzh: (no name attached)12:54
eMerzhok12:54
handschuheMerzh: wait, i will check if it works  :-)12:54
persiastefanlsd, Oh well.  Thanks.  I was thinking about advantages of using things like mesh to try to improve connectivity at things like UDS, but I guess I'm misremembering that you might be someone who knows.  Sorry for the confusion.12:54
persiaWhat did I say?12:55
stefanlsdhehe12:55
handschuheMerzh: for me, it didn't work ... lintian is still complaining12:58
eMerzhhandschuh: ok...so i repeat it?12:58
handschuheMerzh: wait, I will search for the policy12:59
eMerzhi've just found the comment... it said "Copyright: there is no need to add the word "Copyright" before every name" ....12:59
eMerzhhandschuh: did i misunderstood?13:01
handschuheMerzh: no you did not ... maybe the lintian error is pointing somewere else13:01
eMerzhok13:02
handschuheMerzh: http://lintian.debian.org/tags/copyright-without-copyright-notice.html13:02
eMerzhhandschuh: ok, so, i just write (c)  ?13:04
handschuheMerzh: (C), yes13:04
handschuheMerzh: well -maybe- lets try  :-)13:05
eMerzhhandschuh: héhé..ok13:05
eMerzhhandschuh: thanks for your help....something else?13:08
handschuheMerzh: did it work?13:08
handschuheMerzh: (for me it did not ... but maybe I am doing something wrong)13:09
handschuheMerzh: something else i did not found13:09
eMerzhi've not my compilation env right now....i'll test it in 2h :/13:09
handschuheMerzh: the reason could also be: there is no year after the second name13:10
eMerzhhandschuh: oh k...i'll try....13:11
handschuheMerzh: i am trying it now13:13
eMerzhhandschuh:  thanks a lot!13:14
handschuheMerzh: you're welcome13:14
handschuheMerzh: a least, this keeps me away from my master-thesis13:16
eMerzhhandschuh: héhé :)13:17
handschuheMerzh: there is still the copyright-without-copyright-notice13:17
handschuheMerzh: this is the copyright-section, I am using: http://paste.ubuntu.com/75214/13:18
eMerzhhandschuh: maybe it's about other legal issues? but for that i've contact upstream13:19
handschuheMerzh: that may be ... I am sorry but I don't have enough experiance for determining the problem in detail13:20
eMerzhhandschuh: ok, thanks anyway...i'll investigate ....13:21
eMerzhhandschuh: exepted this,  anything else look wrong?13:27
slytherinhandschuh: eMerzh: make sure you both are using same lintian versions and preferably one in intrepid-backports.13:27
handschuhslytherin, eMerzh: I am using Version Lintian v2.0.0~intrepid113:28
eMerzhi haven't mine here so i can't tell...but it think that it's the version of intrepid backports13:29
handschuhslytherin: but the lintian has to be empty before the package could be accepted, right?13:30
ScottKstefanlsd: Here now.13:31
stefanlsdScottK: sorry, just bout to go into a meeting. catch up later. was re spambayes.13:32
ScottKOK13:33
=== kiko is now known as kiko-fud
mok0Re: # 1 on the REVU list, what is supercollider? I can find no packages having to do with that13:49
james_wbddebian: hey. I see you uploaded the NMU of fcitx, I just sent a note to the bug stating that I'm not sure the fix is complete. I'm not sure whether to re-open it.13:50
persiaIt's a sound generator.  It got removed a couple releases ago for being unforgivably buggy.13:50
james_whttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=45436313:50
ubottuDebian bug 454363 in fcitx "GTK_IM_MODULE=XIM does not work" [Normal,Closed]13:50
persiaartfwo has a new version in PPAs, and is around, but due to a bug in REVU, it doesn't show in the list.13:50
persiaNeeds extra testing on amd64.13:50
james_wbddebian: I don't even have confirmation of my suspicions at this point though.13:50
persiamok0, I keep gettiing about halfway through comments on that one, and my browser crashes, and I get distracted.13:52
persiaIf you have time to hit it, great.13:52
persiaIf not, it's on my list to hit before I leave.13:52
persia#2 isn't on my list though.13:52
JonReagando any of y'all know where I can find a good example debian/watch file?13:53
mok0persia: I'll take #213:53
persiaJonReagan, There's a howto in the wiki, or look at any of the majority of the approved archived packages on REVU.13:53
JonReaganthanks!13:54
mok0persia: artfwo has a package that's been sitting in "needs work" for a while, so maybe he's not too active13:54
handschuhJonReagan: http://wiki.debian.org/debian/watch might help you13:54
Laibschany kind soul around willing to commit the SRU debdiffs I prepared  for bug 221010 and bug 227547 ?13:55
JonReaganthanks13:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221010 in mailgraph "homepage for mailgraph has moved" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22101013:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 227547 in wordpress "ubuntu wordpress should suppress the "please update" warning" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22754713:55
bddebianjames_w: Well if you think it isn't fixed, re-open it :)13:55
persiamok0, He's around.  Saw him in #launchpad about 4 days ago.  He just doesn't have a lot of confidence in REVU right now.13:56
james_wbddebian: actually, I guess I will open a new bug, as I think the same problem exists for Qt13:56
persiamok0, We've a lot of people like that, in part because we sorta skipped REVU for intrepid.13:56
mok0persia: can't say I blame him :-)13:56
persiamok0, Neither I13:56
mok0persia: confidence takes a long time building, only a short time to tear down...13:56
bddebianJust never have any confidence and you won't have that problem :)13:58
handschuhwho is the one in charge of programming revu?13:58
persiahandschuh, The REVU Hackers share that, but REVU is open source: patches are usually accepted fairly quickly.13:58
handschuhpersia: as I not arround here for a long time, was there the attempt of creating an auto-build-environment for revu?14:00
persiahandschuh, It's been discussed.  I've yet to be unsuccessful at shooting it down.14:00
persiaFor a while there was a manual build triggering process that could be performed by reviewers, but that bitrotted.14:00
mok0It's good for uploaders to learn how to set up a building environment of their own14:01
persiahandschuh, In short, the argument is that because we want to support uploading earlier versions, it's important that REVU isn't used as a repository.14:01
persiaAlso, developers are expected to have a working clean build environment, so it's good practice to do it that way.14:01
persiaIf you're really short on CPU time, a few people have debomatic or other build farm environments up.14:02
handschuhpersia, mok0: my idea was to create something like lintian, but just for the build process14:02
handschuhmaybe one can connect revu to a ppa14:02
handschuhso that the ppa does the work of compiling14:03
persiaThere's a beta PPA importer to do something like that.14:03
handschuhpersia: oh, great - so it could be done in that way14:04
persiaOn the other hand, the LP devs finally decided a direction for PPAs, and they are making them first-class repos, which add a lot of versioning and release restrictions that aren't appropriate for REVU.14:04
handschuhpersia: ok thats a good point14:05
handschuhpersia: what do you mean by "first-class repositories"?14:07
persiaFrom what I understand, essentially somewhere from which you could distribute an entire distro if you wanted (and didn't need components)14:08
persiaVery focused on providing services to end-users, including care to ensure upgrades happen sanely, signatures for packages, etc.14:08
persiaNot all that's implemented yet, but the recent set of bug comments indicate that it is the decision.14:08
persiaAs a result, the iterative process to create the perfect package doesn't work well on PPAs now, and can be expected to work less well as the optimisation continues.14:09
persiaWell, you could do e.g. foo-1.2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa97 but you'd get hit with the version number every time.14:10
handschuhpersia: thanks for that information ... really interesting14:12
directhexyay for PPA signing, that would make my life easier... although i would probably continue to mirror, so i get usage stats14:17
directhexi wonder how my download rates are this month14:19
ScottKpersia: Until they sign PPA repos, then they really shouldn't be considered suitable for anything bug testing.14:21
persiadirecthex, stats are another thing that was mentioned as possible as part of being first-class, although that might take a while to implement.14:21
persiaScottK, Right.14:21
ScottKbug/but, but anyway ...14:21
persiaThe decision was made that they get signed and get made first class.  Not done yet, but at least decided.14:21
mok0persia: If you have a minute? http://pastebin.com/f7f0d7f3f14:22
persiaAs a result of the decision, I'm much more opposed to recommending PPAs for test builds, or package reviews than I was before.14:22
* persia should have run out of minutes an hour ago14:22
persiamok0, What's the question about that?14:22
mok0I am OK with not including GPL verbatim, but I think its required14:22
mok0?14:23
persiamok0, Not according to http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat14:23
mok0persia: ... so it needs to be include 1 time14:24
mok0thx14:24
persiamok0, Oh, right.  Missed that (see previous not about minutes)14:25
directhexhm, my usage figures are way down compared to this time last month. i suspect due to people installing intrepid14:26
=== LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox
directhexnot even 6k users, 2/3 of the way though the month14:27
stefanlsdScottK: still there?14:29
ScottKstefanlsd: Yes.14:32
stefanlsdScottK: cool. just wanted to ask you re spambayes and the work you did to get the patches unapplying.  The future_import_fix is now inline. which means i dont think we need dpatch and your other changes. i suspect if there are new other dpatch changes, we would like a working dpatch system (your changes).  soo basically, would you prefer a sync and maybe a bug to BTS making it dpatch compatibile, or keep your patch changes?14:36
ScottKstefanlsd: IIRC there were some changes in my version of the future_import patch that didn't make it into Debian.  I suspect they are not needed and thats the first thing to check.14:37
ScottKstefanlsd: I don't recall.  Are there other patches in the package?14:38
stefanlsdScottK: kk, will confirm re future_import.  there is a spambayes.dpatch but with the original rules and without dpatch build-dep, it does build14:38
ScottKstefanlsd: In that case (assuming the Debian patch is sufficiently complete) I go with sync and file a wishlist bug with the patch.14:40
stefanlsdScottK: yeah, cool. was just writing that14:40
stefanlsdScottK: will check and let you know14:40
stefanlsdheh. crumbs14:40
stefanlsdhttp://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=369214:40
=== kiko-fud is now known as kiko-afk
RainCTsiretart: is spooky's connection working fine again?14:47
=== RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | It's REVU, go review!
RainCTerr14:51
=== RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | It's REVU Day, go review!
=== persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs | It's REVU Day, go review!
jerbearif i've got a patch to an existing package (network-manager-pptp in this case), how would i go about putting the modified package on my ppa (i already have this setup)?15:18
baincan some motu take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit15:24
bainit has already received some prilim review :15:24
=== mib_onxc0x4u is now known as NFM-HIGH
* mok0 about to review scim-sayure15:24
* mok0 about to review scim-sayura15:24
* mok0 intends to REVU gebabel15:37
ScottKdholbach: How does HoF determine the sponsorship numbers?15:39
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
dholbachScottK: signed-by on the *-changes + mails on the *-sponsors mailing lists15:40
ScottKdholbach: Where signed-by != changed-by I guess?15:41
dholbachScottK: yeah15:41
ScottKdholbach: That makes sense.  I do worry a bit that such things as HoF demotivate activities that don't count towards it (HoF makes a statement about what work is important in Ubuntu).15:42
* ScottK wonders how the hour I just spent testing the new kernel in intrepid-proposed moves me towards the HoF?15:42
dholbachScottK: right, I got a lot of feedback about what could go on there as well and I'm still thinking about it - I'm happy to change things like the karma numbers for example15:43
dholbachthey're so hard to reach that it's no fun15:43
ScottKdholbach: I also worry that emphasizing quantity over quality sends a bad message too.15:43
dholbachright, I was also thinking of things like "random 5 people who did their 5-a-day this week"15:44
ScottKdholbach: That's another place where I think the quantity thing is biting us.15:45
dholbachI'm not sure about that15:45
ScottKI don't have metrics, but I'm pretty certain I see a lot more 'poorly considered' short comments in bugs by people who clearly don't know enough to be triaging that particular bug.15:46
dholbachlook at http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/ - we know most of the people on there quite well15:46
ScottKI can't say 5 a day is the cause.15:46
dholbachexactly15:46
dholbachI agree that there's bad stuff on wikis, forums and in the bug tracker15:46
ScottKI do think we have a bug triaging problem.15:46
dholbachand that we should be discussing improving it15:46
dholbachby training, better documentation and maybe having something like a QA council that can deal with and think about governance issues there15:47
ScottKdholbach: One thing I've noticed recently is people marking a bug invalid 'because it's already been reported' and not duping to the original bug.  This leaves the reporter of the supposed dupe kind of hanging.15:48
dholbachyeah, that definitely sucks15:48
dholbachmaybe some kind of 'survey' would help or a canned reply saying "It would have been better to do X instead of Y because Z, do you still remember where you learned about the process of doing X?"15:49
dholbachor something like that15:49
dholbachthat way we could get to the root of misinformation15:50
dholbachit clearly needs a multi-pronged approach15:50
dholbachgenerally I wouldn't say that the total ratio of "stuff that goes wrong" has increased15:50
dholbachit was the same in the ubuntu-bugzilla days, but it's just that the number of people involved in the whole project has grown15:51
dholbachI don't have numbers for that though15:51
james_whex version numbers? that's irritating15:51
dholbachjames_w: hm?15:51
james_wdholbach: sponsor request for 0.8.A of a package when we have 0.8.915:52
* dholbach shudders slightly15:52
mok0In watchfiles, do we promote the use of the qa.debian,org php script for sourceforge ??15:52
james_wmok0: it's automatic15:53
james_wuscan sees sf.net and replaces it with the qa.debian.org page15:53
mok0james_w: ah, so you need to use "sf.net" ??15:53
james_wmok0: line 791 of /usr/bin/uscan15:54
mok0james_w: thanks15:54
james_wso yes, I should say automatic for some cases15:54
james_wcan someone confirm for me that 0.8.9 < 0.8.A to dpkg?15:55
mok0james_w: sorry for being a dud, but how should it appear in watch?15:55
james_wI'm always concerned about making a mistake with --compare-version15:55
james_wmok0: http://sf.net/whatever I believe15:55
dholbachjames_w: dpkg --compare-versions 0.8.9 lt 0.8.A && echo TRUE15:55
james_wmok0: you can of course just use the qa.debian.org page directly15:55
james_wdholbach: thanks for confirming15:56
dholbachde rien15:56
mok0james_w: yes, there I know how the search string should look like...15:56
james_wdholbach: does the hof just look for signed-by != changed-by on the sponsors' lists?15:58
dholbachjames_w: yeah16:00
james_wdholbach: if it looked on the -changes lists it would mean that it would catch the cases where a sponsorship bug is not used, which I expect is common in some cases. Would there be a downside to doing that?16:01
dholbachhum, not sure16:02
eMerzhif someone want to review my just updated package...it's waiting on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ... thanks :)16:14
siretartRainCT: schould be. it works at least for me16:26
eMerzhhandschuh: I've just correct my package....i've add Copyright everywhere and it works for me16:31
handschuheMerzh: great, so the lintian on the binary is empty?16:31
eMerzhhandschuh: no warning..just info :)16:32
* mok0 is about to REVU tomboy-blogposter16:32
eMerzhhandschuh:  no errors neither16:33
handschuheMerzh: good thing! you also fixed the small things i mentioned, so the package looks very good to me16:34
mok0(even though I don't approve of Mono, as observant readers of the ML will have noticed...16:34
eMerzhhandschuh:  cooool :D happy to read it :)16:35
lagamok0: are you morten?16:35
mok0Yes16:35
lagamok0: good job on that mail. YMMD ;)16:35
handschuheMerzh: good job!16:36
mok0I got trashed16:36
=== leonel_ is now known as leonel
handschuheMerzh: has upstream answered to you?16:37
eMerzhhandschuh: yes ...he is workin on it....16:38
handschuheMerzh: great, then you should add this as a comment @ revu so that other reviewers will not complain about this16:39
eMerzhhandschuh: done :)16:39
eMerzh\me is now looking for Advocate :)16:40
* eMerzh is now looking for Advocate :)16:41
handschuheMerzh: ok good. so now you can do nothing else except waiting ... or better: prepare your next package  ;-)16:41
eMerzhhandschuh: héhé .... thanks for your help anyway :)16:42
handschuheMerzh: you're welcome16:42
* mok0 about to review docang-theme...16:52
* mok0 is wondering whether persia managed to review the supercollider thingie16:53
* handschuh cheers on mok0 for beeing so industriously16:54
* mok0 hugs handschuh16:54
* handschuh hugs mok0 back16:54
* mok0 is about to REVU dodol-theme17:02
* RainCT tells mok0 that he rocks ;)17:05
* mok0 is struggling to have more reviews that RainCT ;-P17:06
mok0/s/that/than17:06
mok0Only 4 to go...17:06
=== hagabaka` is now known as hagabaka
RainCTmok0: uhm.. where are you looking? :P17:07
mok0RainCT: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/stats.py17:08
RainCTmok0: 133-107 isn't 4 :P17:09
* mok0 is struggling to have more reviews than dktrkranz :-P17:09
mok0my bad17:09
RainCTah :)17:09
mok0No hope of getting above 2nd place though17:09
RainCTlol17:10
mok0persia rules17:10
RainCTyeah, it's difficult to beat robots :P17:10
mok0LOL17:10
RainCTalthough, he's going to holiday.. so now I only need to see him laugh and he will have proved that he's human ;P17:10
sebnerRainCT: at least he uses smilies. bot's with smilies? ^^17:11
RainCThe does?17:12
RainCTwell, my previous IRC bot used smilies too ^^17:12
sebnerRainCT: even good ones like :)17:12
sebnerheh17:12
* RainCT goes to review gnome-video-arcabe before mok0 get's a chance to beat me :P17:13
mok0Yikes17:13
* mok0 is about to revu mac4lin-gdm-themes17:13
RainCTwah, someone stop him! *g*17:14
* handschuh is even more impressed by todays attitude17:14
mok0... working mechanically  from the top...17:14
* RainCT can't parse that sentence17:14
RainCTmok0: good, persia will love you :)17:14
RainCTI shall do that to, once I finish with the REVU Day targets17:14
RainCT*too - my English is awful today :P17:15
mok0RainCT: ... well, not quite the top, since persia said he was reviewing the supercollider thing17:15
RainCTbtw guys, feel free to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Headers/NextREVUDay if I forget to do so :P17:15
DktrKranzmok0: argh! :)17:16
* RainCT throws a REVU url at DktrKranz 17:16
* DktrKranz hasn't a browser, but will have tonight17:16
* RainCT wonders what DktrKranz is using :P17:17
RainCT(just curiosity, I'm fine with tonight :))17:17
handschuhisn't there an option to automatically export the next revu date from revu onto the wiki?17:17
DktrKranzRainCT: blocked by a strict firewall17:17
RainCThandschuh: REVU takes it from the wiki17:18
handschuhRainCT: ok, great17:18
* handschuh hates redundant data17:18
RainCTand I don't feel like writing a script to edit it automatically (would probably take more time than I need to change it myself :P)17:18
RainCTDktrKranz: that sucks :(17:18
DktrKranzRainCT: we're under a multinational, and connections are proxied by their server, which blocks HTTP traffic, only SMTP/SSH is allowed17:21
DktrKranzso, I tunnelled irc traffic ;)17:21
RainCTAnd w3m/elinks over SSH? *g*17:22
RainCTok.. you can't really what you get with that a web :P17:22
DktrKranzRainCT: exactly ;)17:25
* DktrKranz kills asterisk17:28
RainCTlongtitle="Play classic arcade games"   is that appropiate in a .menu file?17:30
* RainCT reviews alarm-clock-applet17:32
eMerzh\me is now looking for Advocate or comments (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman)...RainCT if you are in a reviewing mood...your welcome :p17:33
* RainCT asks for feedback on the get-orig-source rule from http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/alarm-clock-applet-0808280150/alarm-clock-applet-0.2.4/debian/rules17:37
RainCTthe last line is evil, isn't it?17:38
mok0eMerzh: what's with the legal issue?17:38
eMerzhmok0: upstream autor was contacted to correct issues...he answer that he is workin on it....17:39
mok0eMerzh: ... shouldn't we wait for that to be resolved?17:39
* mok0 is not going to help RainCT maintain his reviewing lead :-P17:40
eMerzhmok0: legal issues are minors i think no? like old fsf address in sources , ....17:40
mok0eMerzh: ah17:40
RainCTmok0: *g*17:40
mok0RainCT: ... but more likely I'm fading... what's wrong with that rule, doesn't it work?17:41
RainCTmok0: it recompresses the tarball17:41
RainCTwhich changes the checksum, iirc..17:42
mok0RainCT: ah, yes, that's kinda redundant...17:42
mok0The policy is to use gzip -9 mode, but that's not mandatory for pristine tarballs afaik17:43
RainCTbah I can't find anything else wrong17:44
mok0RainCT: advocate it17:44
mok0RainCT: next advocate can remove that before upload17:45
* RainCT needs to test-build and test-install it first.. but this isn't funny :P17:46
mok0RainCT: yeah, I wonder why anyone wants to be MOTU17:47
RainCTheh17:47
* mok0 is about to review sqliteman17:47
* RainCT looks at mac4lin-icons while pbuilder updates17:48
mok0... breaking the tedious top-to-bottom processing17:48
RainCTmok0: people who ask on IRC have priority ;)17:49
* handschuh is glad about this17:49
mok0RainCT: yeah, but these guys are spoiled... they've been hanging around for days :-)17:49
RainCTbtw, can a pbuilder tgz be converted to cowbuilder?17:50
eMerzh\me thanks mok0 for watching :)17:50
mok0Hmm, what's in the sqliteman tarball... ETA is going UP??17:50
=== fabrice_sp_ is now known as fabrice_sp
rugueuxdoes anyone know how to compile a java source with a build.xml (I suppose from eclipse) ?17:52
fabrice_spHi. Can someone review dvdstyler (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler)? It's also built in my ppa. Thanks17:52
james_wrugueux: ant is the tool to build from a build.xml17:52
slytherinrugueux: why do you need eclipse for that?17:53
rugueuxI don't know, i've just searched around, and found that build.xml is created by eclipse17:54
rugueuxI won't to find how to compile it, in order to package17:54
rugueuxwan't17:54
fabrice_spHi james_w: about Bug #296618. What do you mean by transitional package?17:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 296618 in icedove-dispmua "[Merge request]Please merge icedove-dispmua 1.6.2-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29661817:54
handschuhrugueux: first of all, install ant17:54
rugueuxI've install the package libantlr-java, but could not find the ant binary, where is it ?17:54
eMerzhmok0: sorry but what did you mean by "eta"?17:55
mok0"Expected Time of Arrival"17:55
mok0eMerzh: but I got it now17:55
james_wfabrice_sp: what in your proposed package causes someone with icedove-dispmua to end up with dispmua installed?17:55
handschuhrugueux: the package you need is named "ant" (nothing more)17:56
rugueuxhandschuh thank u, I'll try right now17:56
fabrice_spjames_w: I explicitly put conflicts and replaces lines in control file, and I checked that with thunderbird-dispmua installed, I ended with dispmua installed17:57
fabrice_spafter a apt-get update / upgrade17:57
james_wodd17:57
slytherinrugueux: build.xml is java world analogous to Makefile17:58
fabrice_spodd? It shouldn't have worked?17:59
RainCTthose mac4lin packages scare me :P17:59
slytherin!sru18:01
ubottuStable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates18:01
* RainCT rejects -icons with licensing complaints :P18:01
=== jdong_ is now known as jdong
RainCTmok0: yeah, found another problem with alarm-clock-applet! :P18:04
mok0RainCT: it doesn't build?18:05
RainCTmok0: It does. The name of file debian/*.manpages is wrong18:05
mok0RainCT: ah, nice catch18:06
slytherinWhen does the sync from Debian happen in a day? Is it once a day?18:15
mok0eMerzh: done18:17
* mok0 goes to pick up a pizza now...18:17
rugueuxcompiling the java source is failing because missing jdesktop files, I've installed libjdic-java, but still not working ? any ID ?18:17
eMerzhmok0: thanks18:17
mok0eMerzh: you're welcome18:17
handschuhrugueux: I have to go home now, but then I will help you if noone else does it until then18:18
* handschuh finally goes home18:18
slytherinrugueux: what are you trying to compile?18:19
rugueuxa jar file from a gui-application...18:21
slytherinrugueux: which application? where did you get the source?18:22
rugueuxhttp://www.homeopathyonline.org/download_OpenRep.html18:22
fabrice_spjames_w: I just made another test, and you're right: dispmua (the new package) doesn't install automatically. I think I install it from a local package, and when updating from ppa, It installed the latest and desinstall the old one. So what do you recommendme: keep the old name or create a transitional package?18:29
james_wcreate a transitional package18:30
james_wwhy is your new package called "dispmua"18:30
fabrice_spBecause I packaged other thunderbird plugin, and I've been requested each time to delete 'thunderbird' from package name18:31
fabrice_sp(like itsalltext or vimperator)18:31
fabrice_spThat's why I wanted to follow the same rule with dispmua18:31
fabrice_spis it a bad idea?18:32
eMerzhmok0: when you said README.source is redundant. ...should i remove it?18:34
mok0yes18:34
james_wfabrice_sp: ok, that's fine18:35
RainCTmok0: you dislike README.source, too? :)18:35
slytherinrugueux: looks like it can be compiled only from netbeans. Tell them to release with a build.xml that is not dependent on an IDE.18:35
mok0heh,depends... if it doesn't contain any useful inormation...18:35
RainCTwuahahaha.. 21 comments more and I'll beat ScottK :P18:36
mok0It's just one more file to maintain, and README.source tends to go out-of-date quickly18:36
fabrice_spCan someone point me to how creating a transitional package to migrate from thunderbird-dispmua to dispmua? I've some idea but I'd prefer to follow some rules18:36
mok0Go, RainCT!!18:36
* RainCT laughs at the current "Next REVU Day" text on REVU18:37
rugueuxslytherin, thank u, I'll try to ask them18:37
* RainCT fixes it18:37
ScottKRainCT: On what?18:43
* mok0 will be afk for a while18:46
JonReaganyipeee... fixed all the problems (problems, so far) in my package!  I can has REVU? :)  It's the openproj package... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openproj18:50
fabrice_spjames_w: just uploaded a new debdiff in Bug #296618 with the transitional package. Can you have a quick look, and tells me if it looks good? Thanks.18:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 296618 in icedove-dispmua "[Merge request]Please merge icedove-dispmua 1.6.2-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29661818:54
james_wfabrice_sp: changelog entry for the transitional package missing18:55
james_wdo you not want to capitalise thunderbird in the short description?18:56
james_wtransitional package should be icedove- not thunderbird- shouldn't it?18:56
fabrice_spjames_w: the intrepid package has been named thunderbird-18:57
fabrice_sp(I changed the name for Intrepid, has it ws a FTBFS)18:57
james_woh yeah, sorry18:57
james_wnot sure the section is correct18:57
handschuhrugueux: could your problem be solved?18:57
james_wyou need Conflicts/Replaces as files are moving between packages18:58
* handschuh follows mok0's example and eats a pizza18:58
slytherinJonReagan: I was going to try building your package, but looks like it will take me at least 1 hour, after that I will add comments.18:59
james_wis the priority different to the other package? if not then don't put make it explicit18:59
fabrice_spjames_w: about section: I copy it from another package. And I will put back Conflicts/Replaces also. What do you mean capitalise thunderbird in the short description?18:59
james_wfabrice_sp: I'm done for the day, I'll look at any debdiff on the bug next time I'm around18:59
fabrice_spok18:59
fabrice_spthanks!18:59
james_wyou've changed "Icedove" to "thunderbird"18:59
james_wdo you not want "Thunderbird"?19:00
fabrice_spahhhhh: sure19:00
JonReaganthanks slytherin19:00
fabrice_spIt's only a languaqe problem :-)19:00
fabrice_spthanks again james_w19:00
DktrKranzRainCT, now I've got a browser, have some cool packages? ;)19:01
RainCTDktrKranz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVUDays :)19:08
DktrKranzthanks19:09
RainCTScottK: REVU Ranking ("Statistics" menu entry) :P19:09
ScottKRainCT: How about a stat for most times found something wrong after another MOTU had advocated (MOTU comment follows an advocation, but doesn't advocate)?19:12
RainCTScottK: uhmmm.. perhaps once neutral comments are implemented, but I'm not very fond of this19:14
bmmI'm trying out CDBS, just for the fun of it, and debuild gives me a problem with install-info: too many arguments. I have debian/lzip.info with one line containing "doc/lzip.info" which is an info file. What is going wrong?19:26
bmmThis is the output: http://pastebin.com/m7645ca1f19:27
=== jmarsden is now known as jmarsden|work
slytheringeser: Just FYI ... I am still working on libjdic-java. I hope to have it fixed by tomorrow.20:22
fabrice_spSomebody knows why I'm getting that in REVU, in legal link:20:28
fabrice_sp/var/revu/revu1-incoming/dvdstyler-0811190636/dvdstyler-1.7.1/src/Utils.h: UNKNOWN20:28
fabrice_sp  [Copyright: Alex Thuering]20:28
fabrice_spin the sourc efile, it's references GPL20:29
* mok0 is about to review mac4lin-splash20:30
superm1slytherin, did you ever sort out that issue with nautilus-sendto?20:31
* mok0 is about to review glusterfs20:32
slytherinsuperm1: nope, sorry. :-(20:32
slytherinsuperm1: was busy after that with work. Haven't really found time to look into bluetooth again.20:33
superm1that's a shame.  could you keep an eye on upstream then at least and see if they ever end up rev'ing it with a fix themselves?20:33
slytherinsuperm1: sure.20:33
bmmCould somebody look at http://pastebin.com/m7645ca1f and tell me why the install-info gives an error and why it is ignored by CDBS ?20:34
* mok0 about to review bitmeter20:42
fabrice_spbmm: install-info only needs a filename, and you are giving him a filename and a directory20:43
fabrice_spmok0: not willing to review dvdstyler? ;-)20:43
mok0fabrice_sp: ok20:43
bmmfabrice_sp: currently, I have a debian/lzip.info file which mentions "doc/lzip.info" in a single line. The rest is all default dh_make with CDBS enabled. So what might be causing this problem?20:44
bmmfabrice_sp: I'll put it on REVU, maybe that can show me the error of my ways ;) I'll post back when it's there. Thanks for you response!20:45
fabrice_spbmm: ok. I'm not an expoert on CDBS myself, but will try to help :-)20:46
bmmfabrice_sp: first time for me also, so I have no idea what all those defaults are doing.. let only what is happening if they don't ;)20:47
fabrice_spbmm: that's why I don't like that 'automatic' things. I prefer to understand how things work, even if it's more manual ;-)20:48
slytherinmok0: openproj got review from java centric reviewer. :-)20:48
mok0slytherin: great!20:49
slytherinJonReagan: reviewed openproj. You have got at least 2 days of work ahead. :-)20:49
* mok0 hugs JonReagan20:49
* mok0 need to update builder20:50
* slytherin resumes watching movie20:51
bmmfabrice_sp: it's now on REVU, here: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4084 with a small lintian error on the standards version.20:53
bmmMaybe the error is actually normal behavior20:53
=== jmarsden_ is now known as jmarsden|work
fabrice_spbmm: will check :-)20:53
fabrice_spbmm: lintian error is because of out-of-date standard. Nothing to do with CDBS20:54
fabrice_sptrying to build the package here, in Intrepid20:57
mok0fabrice_sp: is dvdstyler in lenny?20:57
fabrice_spmok0: no. It's only the upstream changelog that comes with that (you can download the package from sourceforge)20:58
fabrice_spupstream provides a debian directory20:59
mok0fabrice_sp: ah, ok. You need to get rid of the by repackaging the tarball20:59
mok0get rid of that20:59
mok0fabrice_sp: we don't want upstreams changelogs20:59
mok0fabrice_sp: debian/changelog that is21:00
fabrice_spmok0: ok. So I repack the tarball, to get rid of all the debian directory or only the changelog?21:00
mok0fabrice_sp: we _do_ want the ordinary Changelog21:00
mok0fabrice_sp: the whole debian/21:00
fabrice_spof course :-)21:00
fabrice_spok21:00
fabrice_spmok0: thanks for taking time to review the package! :-)21:01
mok0fabrice_sp: ok, I'll carry on, assuming that you take over the debian/ that is in the package.21:01
mok0fabrice_sp: when you build the source package, debian/ will end up in the diff.gz21:01
fabrice_spmok0: will do (I'm repacking the tarball right now :-) )21:01
mok0fabrice_sp: so, you will need a "get-orig-source" target in rules to create the repackage tarball21:02
JonReaganoh. geez.. shoulda stuck to the list... thanks slytherin... what work needs to be done?21:03
RainCTbmm: I think CDBS just calls dh_installinfo21:03
JonReaganah, now I see, thanks for the comment21:04
RainCTbmm: (and I have no idea what info files are, so I can't help)21:04
fabrice_spmok0: this will allow to download the source again, right?21:04
fabrice_spmok0: ok. Found a wiki page explaining that ;-) Thanks21:05
mok0fabrice_sp: you have the watch file to download the upstream tarball. Then you have the get-orig-source rule to repackage it21:05
bmmRainCT: that is the weird thing, I thought I did it the way dh_installinfo wants me to, but I still get this error. Maybe I just did everything the way I should ;)21:05
mok0fabrice_sp: If you are smart, you can make fancy tricks with the watch file to make it call the repackage command after downloading.21:06
fabrice_spmok0: I would say skilled, and not only smart :-)  Will look for other packages to see how to do that :-)21:07
mok0fabrice_sp: If you like, it's not required  though21:08
mok0fabrice_sp: If you get hit by a bus (God forbid) the new maintainer needs to be able to do what you have done21:09
fabrice_spmok0: I like the idea of doing smart things, but not of being hit by a bus :-)21:10
* mok0 nods21:10
mok0fabrice_sp: comments ready21:22
fabrice_spmok0: great! Thanks for your time :-)21:23
* mok0 about to review bitmeter21:23
=== sdh_ is now known as sdh
* bmm is loving the fact that his PPA support Jaunty and he can go do both REVU and PPA at the same time.22:25
NCommanderRainCT finally turned on that code22:31
NCommanderw00t22:31
* NCommander doesn't see the package importer ...22:32
* bmm made that same Maintainer: field mistake AGAIN and can't understand why no automated system points that out on REVU22:34
RainCTbmm: which mistake, listing yourself as Maintainer?22:35
bmmRainCT: yep, not mentioning MOTU22:35
RainCTit's easy to add a check for that.. which addresses are allowed there, only @ubuntu.com or was there something more?22:35
bmmWell, if REVU is only used for MOTU development, then a check on the mention of Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> in control would help22:36
RainCTbmm: no, people are allowed to list themselves if they want and they have an @ubuntu.com22:37
bmmThen "@(.+\.)?ubuntu.com" might help?22:37
RainCTand there are also teams and stuff (well, not sure if there's any team right now using their ML as Maintainer in Ubuntu, but that's certainly allowed)22:38
RainCTbmm: that's not the problem, the question is if it's only @ubuntu.com or something else.. because I think there was something more22:38
RainCTbut perhaps I dreamed that :P22:38
bmmRainCT: at least "lists.ubuntu.com" but for the rest I don't know, sorry.22:39
RainCTuhm.. the wiki only says ubuntu.com22:39
* RainCT add a check22:40
bmmmaybe conanical.com or something like that? I don't know, but it might be good to just make it a warning ;)22:40
nhandlerIf a MOTU Acked a Sync request (for a package in Universe), but forget to set the status to 'Confirmed', is it ok for me to do it?22:44
RainCTnhandler: presumably22:45
* nhandler goes to review a few packages on REVU before dinner22:47
RainCTbmm: done, REVU will show a warning now22:49
=== nellery_ is now known as nellery
NCommanderAnd I'm off to dinner23:05
directhexthis sounds quite daft when i type it: "i have root on over a million and a half pounds of computers"23:07
nhandlerIf a person packages an application for a PPA, how should they be recognized if another person takes their package and tries to get it through the REVU process? Should they be listed as the person who debianized the application in debian/copyright?23:25
ScottKnhandler: If their package was mostly correct, then I'd say yes.23:27
nhandlerScottK: Ok, but what about the XSBC-Original-Maintainer and the Debian Packaging Copyright? Should those be for the person sending it through REVU or the person who originally packaged it for the PPA?23:29
ScottKCopyright is a function of who did the work, so the original guy and the new person can list themselves if they view their contribution as significant.23:29
ScottKI'd say original maintainer is the guy bringing it to REVU.23:29
nhandlerOk, thanks a lot ScottK23:30
directhexScottK, how about if you start with someone else's package, and every single file you go to improve you end up needing to rewrite due to crap packaging?23:30
ScottKdirecthex: I'd still list both in debian/copyright. Unless you start from a clean room, it's a derivative work.23:31
directhexScottK, okay, good, that's what i've done23:32
directhexthough i plan on rewriting the package description to remove retarded appeasements I put in due to an unnamed DD moaning. fsck him, right in the ear. it's ftpmaster's call, not his, on whether the description is good enough23:33
slytherinDoes anyone have any idea what could be wrong here - http://paste.ubuntu.com/75453/23:34
lagadirecthex: CoC FTW :)23:34
mok0Anyone has an example of how a Launchpad watch file should look like?23:34
ScottKdirecthex: If he's going to sponsor it, it's his call.  You can always find another sponsor.23:35
directhexScottK, no, he'd never sponsor it. he'd not only like the package never to see the archive, but for me to be shot into the sun for suggesting it23:35
slytherindirecthex: you are still stuck at the same issue?23:36
ScottKAh.  I see.  Well he's entitled to that opinion too.23:36
nhandlermok0: Look at the uscan man page. It shows a few examples.23:36
mok0nhandler: ah.. now why didn't I think of that...23:37
mok0nhandler: thx23:37
nhandlermok0: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/intrepid/en/man1/uscan.html23:37
nhandlernp mok023:37
directhexScottK, well, of course. but some topics inspire demagogy, and if attempting to meet in the middle doesn't go anywhere, i fail to see why i should continue user-unfriendly self-gimping23:37
slytherinmok0: why should launchpad be any different from any other site?23:37
mok0slytherin: I dunno... getting tired I suppose23:37
directhexslytherin, which issue are we talking about today? being shot into the sun? well, due to alpha1-induced boredom, i accused the guy behind boycottnovell of libel, for saying i was getting paid off by someone for working on mono packaging23:38
ScottKslytherin: Launchpad usually is (different).23:38
mok0slytherin: also LP has version numbers in the path23:38
ScottKdirecthex: Why would it be libel?  Would it be bad to get paid?23:39
slytherindirecthex: I thought you were talking about the moonlight plugin23:39
directhexslytherin, good guess! i was! want a cookie? i have a spare one here23:39
slytherindirecthex: nah, use it while your work on mono packages. :-)23:40
directhexScottK, "They need Mono.. they do it for a living and the poison the most-used distro"23:40
directhexslytherin, i'm blocked on alpha 1 - though i'm arguing with upstream that they should really release a new tarball real soon now so i can get it into jaunty asap23:40
directhexslytherin, want to be certain moon is offered by the plugin finder service - though due to JS nastiness, that may need some extra magic. where's asac hiding...23:41
slytherinmok0: any sample url?23:43
mok0Arch, I can23:43
mok0can't get it to work...23:43
ScottKdirecthex: Ugly, but unlikely to be actual libel (at least as I understand it in most US jurisdictions).23:43
mok0http://pastebin.com/f3f89842423:43
directhexScottK, fortunately, BN's main muckraker is in britain, and britain has mad libel laws that mean you can sue left right & center23:43
directhexit's actually common enough for people in other countries to sue you in britain, because they know they'll win - if your content can be accessed in any way within the isles, it counts23:44
lfaraonejames_w: is bzr-builddeb ready for use in actual packages yet?23:44
lfaraone(how can I use bzr to maintain packaging)23:44
ScottKYes.  I've heard that.  Then he ought to be more careful.23:45
RainCTgood night23:46
ScottKGood night RainCT23:47
directhexnighty night, sweet RainCT23:47
mok0Good night RainCT23:47
nhandlerNight RainCT23:47
lagagood night RainCT23:47
RainCTwow, best answer ever :P23:48
directhexman, if i thought i'd get this sort of reaction, i'd announce sleepytime more often23:48
lagai'm going to go to bed, too23:48
* laga wonders what's gonna happen23:48
RainCTgood night laga :)23:48
lagayay. :)23:48
lagag'night23:48
slytherinmok0: I guess bluez package has some sort of html parsing to retrieve download url from the page. See if that helps.23:51
slytherinmok0: I mean the watch file in bluez.23:51
mok0slytherin: I figured out the problem. The second "https" should be a "http"23:51
* mok0 sighs23:51
mok0slytherin: but now hear what it says: "remote site does not even have current version" :-)23:52
slytherinmok0: that is probably because your expression is wrong23:53
mok0slytherin: no, it's because the package version is 0.1.0 and the upstream tarball is 0.0.523:54
slytherinmok0: I guess it should be ([\d.]+)23:54
directhexmok0, why?23:54
mok0directhex: why what?23:55
directhexwhy is the package 0.1.0 if upstream tar is 0.0.5?23:55
mok0Newest version on remote site is 0.0.5, local version is 0.1.023:55
mok0Perhaps they changed the numbering scheme?23:55
directhexhow silly23:56
mok0... or perhaps he meant 0.0.1 ??23:56
mok0I will let uploader explain this mess...23:56
* mok0 calls it a day after 16 REVUs today.23:59
nhandlermok0: You are a REVU beast23:59
handschuh mok0: great job!23:59
mok0We're almost through July23:59
mok0Thanks guys!23:59

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