[00:00] <savvas> README.Source then, I have some notes about a weird package :)
[00:00] <savvas> thank you all!!
[00:16] <savvas> ah-hah! here we go: echo " -- $DEBFULLNAME <$DEBEMAIL> " `date -R`
[02:14] <james_w> what does it mean for a .a file to have unresolved symbols?
[02:15] <james_w> Was there a problem with the build of that package, or are things building against the .a expected to -l all the libraries that the .a links against?
[02:28] <Mithrandir> james_w: you need to pass all the necessary .a files.  This is why you want pkg-config or libtool
[02:30] <james_w> thanks Mithrandir
[02:31] <Toobaz2> Hello. I filed a debdiff for bug LP #272316, it was accepted and went in intrepid-proposed. But only the binary package went in. Now, the development is probably not affected, but it depends on the same exact version, so now for those who have intrepid-proposed it is impossible to install libgnomecanvas2-dev. I wanted to know if this is a known behaviour or another bug.
[02:32] <Toobaz2> s/development/development package
[03:39] <mahdialsholi> hi
[03:40] <mahdialsholi> #ubuntu-laptop
[04:02] <faryshta> Anyone has tried the beta of XFCE 4.6?
[04:07] <faryshta> hey there
[04:09] <cr3> is there a specific word to describe the derivations of ubuntu: kubuntu, gobuntu, mythbuntu, etc.? are those each called a "distributor"?
[04:11] <faryshta> cr3, so far I know those are called "DISTROS" or distributions. And if some project uses the code of ubuntu is called FORK.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> cr3: flavours, usually.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> (i think distribution got phased out - or at least,for those that use the same repositories)
[04:15] <Hobbsee> ie, the ones above are flavours, as they all use the same repositories,but medibuntu is a different distribution
[04:16] <cr3> Hobbsee: thanks! I think that's exactly what I was looking for
[04:16] <Hobbsee> cr3: you're welcome
[04:16] <TheMuso> I generally refer to them as derivatives.
[04:18] <cr3> TheMuso: exceptionally, I needed to be very pedantic in this case so "le mot juste" was quite important :)
[05:38] <ScottK> TheMuso: Derivative is something derived from Ubuntu (e.g. Baltix).  Foundations (platform) + Gnome Desktop = Ubuntu and Foundations + KDE Desktop = Kubuntu.  In no sense is Kubuntu a derivative of Ubuntu.
[05:49] <TheMuso> ScottK: True.
[06:31] <jcole> im trying to set the default search plugin for firefox on an ubuntu terminal server... ive put a .js file in /etc/firefox-3.0/pref with the following contents:
[06:31] <jcole> pref("browser.search.selectedEngine", "My Search");
[06:32] <jcole> but its not selecting it by default for new users... is there another place the default search plugin is set?
[06:33] <soren> jcole: "browser.search.defaultenginename", perhaps?
[06:33] <soren> (purely guesswork)
[06:34] <dholbach> good morning
[06:34]  * jcole tries soren's suggestion
[06:35] <soren> dholbach: 'morning :)
[06:35] <dholbach> hi soren! :)
[06:41] <jcole> pref("browser.search.selectedEngine", "My Search");
[06:41] <jcole> pref("browser.search.defaultenginename", "My Search");
[06:41] <jcole> pref("browser.search.order.1", "My Search");
[06:41] <jcole> pref("browser.search.order.2", "My Search");
[06:41] <jcole> ^^ none of those work
[06:42]  * jcole scratches head
[06:42] <jcole> i also see them populated in about:config
[06:46]  * jcole uses google fu
[07:12] <pitti> Good morning
[07:12] <pitti> directhex: time for mono transition then? :-)
[07:13] <directhex> pitti, yes, it looks like it!
[07:14] <directhex> pitti, might be a bit wrapper up with, y'know, doing a job that gets me paid today. but i'll do some packages this evening
[07:14] <pitti> directhex: oh, I thought there was a bunch of 10 packages which needed sponsoring or so; TBH I don't know the current status
[07:14] <pitti> (or syncing)
[07:18] <directhex> pitti, well, check our status page! http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20TransitionTODO
[07:19] <directhex> pitti, cjwatson helped me with the core stack over the weekend - mono 2 itself is in
[07:21] <pitti> ah, good
[07:29] <directhex> i even wrote a patch for OOo, to prove how easy peasy the transition is for everyone
[07:51] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[07:52] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have a fix for bug 271350 from the upstream author of the pdftopdf filter now. I have applied the fix to the CUPS BZR.
[07:53] <pitti> tkamppeter: I saw the commit mail, thanks
[09:47] <cjwatson> dholbach: is there something wrong with http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/? It seems to be pretty out of date - I sponsored mono over the weekend
[09:47] <dholbach> cjwatson: I'm looking into fixing it, seems like it's gnome bug 474205 not being fixed in hardy
[09:48] <cjwatson> ah
[09:48] <dholbach> s/fixing/working around/
[09:49] <dholbach> launchpadlib is probably not an option on hardy either
[09:49] <dholbach> for now I'd recommend using  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-main-sponsors  and  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[09:49] <cjwatson> sure
[10:21] <dholbach> james_w, cjwatson: worked around the issue, the page should be usable again
[10:27] <cjwatson> cool, thanks
[10:27] <BUGabundo_work> Riddell: ping
[10:27] <BUGabundo_work> hi
[10:28] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: he's on holidays atm.
[10:28] <BUGabundo_work> oh okay
[10:28] <BUGabundo_work> Hobbsee: do you know who is keeping track of KDE snapshots for jaunty then?
[10:29] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: people in #kubuntu-devel, but I don't know specifically
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work> thanks
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work> I'm going to peep there
[10:29] <Hobbsee> you're welcome
[11:35] <ion_> summon Keybuk
[11:35]  * slangasek eyes the crackfulness of the latest imagemagick merge
[11:39] <cjwatson> ion_: he's on leave, don't hold your breath
[11:40] <ion_> Heh, ok. I was going to suggest http://heh.fi/patches/belocs-locales-bin/01-triggers and making language packs use it.
[11:40] <cjwatson> ion_: confused as to why that would be Keybuk's area?
[11:41] <ion_> A couple of the latest changelog entries to belocs-locales-bin are signed by him.
[11:41] <cjwatson> ion_: I don't think that has much benefit. locale-gen doesn't do significantly more work if you call it for each language pack rather than just once at the end, and it would mean that packages can't rely on locales being generated once language-pack-$LL-base is configured.
[12:06] <pitti> Riddell: do you know about the kde4bindings 4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1 FTBFS in intrepid-proposed?
[12:49] <directhex> urgh. aircon failure
[12:54] <geser> directhex: do you want some snow for cooling?
[12:55] <directhex> geser, i don't think we have much in our machine room to deal with excess moisture, other than the aforementioned AC units
[14:10] <DktrKranz> kees: (when you catch it up), re bug 301624, it seems http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/76401/ solves the issue as well. Is it fine from a coding/security POV for you?
[14:12] <zul> pitti: hi who do we subscribe for mutliverse SRUs in launchpad?
[14:12] <DktrKranz> zul: motu-sru
[14:13] <zul> DktrKranz: thanks
[14:14] <DktrKranz> zul: ah, do you plan to merge nut soon? It fixes an issue with library symlinks which broke collectd upload.
[14:14] <zul> DktrKranz: its on my radar
[14:15] <DktrKranz> ok, thanks ;)
[14:15] <james_w> mok0 was working on it
[14:15] <azeem> DktrKranz: note #505101 got reopened
[14:16] <azeem> the fix by the Debian maintainer was bad/wrong
[14:16] <DktrKranz> azeem: oh, thanks
[14:49] <lool> asac: It seems thunderbird/jaunty failed on armel with the same symptoms as Debian #325535; do you mind if I apply a similar patch to it?
[15:00] <asac> lool: thats kind of old. we should have a patch in icedove for that i guess
[15:00] <asac> lool: will look
[15:00] <asac> now call ;)
[15:00] <lool> asac: Can't find the bzr branch for thunderbird/jaunty -- or it's not up-to-date
[15:05] <lool> it really looks like it should be lp:~mozillateam/thunderbird/thunderbird.dev but it doesn't have the latest upload
[15:30] <asac> lool: ok updating thunderbird.dev
[15:30] <asac> (and bzr binding it to not miss pushes in future)
[15:30] <asac> lool: also creating .intrepid now ... but i guess you just care for .dev
[15:30] <pitti> tkamppeter: bug 295230 is a problem in the openprinting.org database (typo in apt line); should I report that somewhere, or do you wnat to "just fix" it?
[15:32] <asac> lool: the patch is in the icedove branch and its called: 18_arm_xpcom_unused_attribute.dpatch
[15:32] <asac> we also have 38_arm_xpcom_optim.dpatch
[15:32] <asac> i will integrate those and upload to jaunty
[15:32] <asac> lool: is tomorrow ok?
[15:33] <asac> lool: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/thunderbird/icedove-2.0.0.x
[15:33] <asac> thats icedove
[15:38] <lool> asac: That's fine
[15:38] <lool> It will help on some 3/4 source packages at least
[15:39] <lool> thunderbird, enigmail, mozilla-traybiff (universe) I'd guess
[15:39] <lool> asac: Thanks for looking into it!
[15:40] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks for telling me about this problem. I will just fix it. There is nothing on Ubuntu involved. The bug is on the OpenPrinting server.
[15:41] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, I meant filing a bug there; but thanks
[15:52] <pitti> tkamppeter: can you please close the bug after you fixed it?
[15:56] <tkamppeter> pitti, it seems that there is something else wrong, if I query a Gestetner printer I get the correct at line: http://openprinting.org/query.cgi?type=drivers&moreinfo=1&printer=Gestetner-DSm745_745G
[15:57] <tkamppeter> pitti, see the apt lines on the resulting page.
[15:58] <dholbach> bryce: hiya - in the sponsoring queue I saw a couple of times that you replied to the bug "patch looks good" - could you please upload it the next time instead? :)
[15:59] <tkamppeter> pitti, the XML version shows also correct apt lines: http://openprinting.org/query.cgi?type=drivers&moreinfo=1&format=xml&printer=Gestetner-DSm745_745G
[16:00] <tkamppeter> pitti, are you really taking the apt lines from the query result or are you putting them together by yourself?
[16:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: just what cupshelpers.openprinting.OpenPrinting().listDrivers() returns
[16:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: okay, thanks; if the DB is correct, I'll try to reproduce it locally
[16:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: maybe something in cupshelpers capitalizes it, or another bug in jockey; thanks for looking!
[16:03] <pitti> tkamppeter: the bug is two weeks old already, too; maybe the DB changed in the meantime and got fixed?
[16:06] <tkamppeter> pitti, I fixed the database on November 5. It is possible that the poster of the bug reported it only two days later (because only then he ran "sudo apt-get update").
[16:07] <tkamppeter> pitti, the server is OK now. Please check whether Jockey takes the data correctly.
[16:22] <pitti> tkamppeter: tested, works fine now (followed up to the bug)
[16:47] <kees> DktrKranz: yup, based on the other code, I'd agree (I sent email to the same effect).  Thanks for digging into that!
[16:47] <DktrKranz> kees: thanks for replying
[17:09] <bryce> dholbach: I didn't upload them at the time because we were in freeze.
[17:09] <dholbach> ah, right
[17:09] <dholbach> thanks bryce
[17:09] <bryce> dholbach: perhaps during freezes we should not be doing anything with the sponsor queue?
[17:10] <dholbach> bryce: or unsubscribe the team, or milestone 'later' or something
[17:11] <bryce> anyway, I figured if nothing else, reviewing and ok'ing the patches would make it easier for the next one that looks at it to put it through
[17:11] <dholbach> sure
[17:11] <cr3> cjwatson: you most likely have a clear understanding of the .disk/info file in both ubuntu and debian. pedantically speaking, I believe the first part of the file is called the "distributor" in Debian but I believe that corresponds to the "flavour" in Ubuntu. is that correct?
[17:11] <dholbach> or subscribe to the bug, unsubscribe the team and say "I'll upload this once next-devel-release opens"
[17:17] <ScottK> bryce: I grabbed one or two out of the sponsor's queue you'd reviewed and I appreciated your comments.
[17:39] <theunixgeek> Jaunty Jackalope needs more user-end features
[17:39] <theunixgeek> http://theunixgeek.blogspot.com/2008/11/ubuntu-810-featureless-ibex.html
[17:41] <Nafallo> ehrm. so just because it doesn't got any new features you had interest in it doesn't have any features?
[17:41] <Nafallo> seems odd to me :-)
[17:41] <theunixgeek> Nafallo: that made no sense
[17:42] <theunixgeek> well a little bit
[17:42] <Nafallo> it still have features
[17:42] <Nafallo> even new ones.
[17:42] <theunixgeek> very little, though
[17:42] <theunixgeek> and if they're there, they're not obvious
[17:42] <Nafallo> hence it's not featureless unless we get rid of all the old features :-P
[17:43] <theunixgeek> it has no new features
[17:43] <theunixgeek> I mean
[17:43] <theunixgeek> not a lot of new features
[17:45] <theunixgeek> I have to go now
[17:45] <theunixgeek> goodbye
[17:45] <jpds> theunixgeek: "Some is better than none?"
[17:46] <Nafallo> I think we had slightly different views on what 'featureless' means ;-)
[17:59] <cjwatson> cr3: I'm not sure there's a consistent name for it in either project, although Debian would be more likely to call it "distribution" than "distributor" I think. In Ubuntu I'd call it a "flavour", yes.
[17:59] <cjwatson> cr3: "flavour" = "derivative built out of the Ubuntu archive", in the lexicon we built up for this, but this may not be used consistently everywhere
[17:59] <ikonia> no
[18:00] <ikonia> oops
[18:00] <ikonia> sorry
[18:00] <cr3> cjwatson: is the term "distributor" used for anything in particular?
[18:01] <cr3> cjwatson: lsb_release -a seems to use it as what we call the distribution, eg "Ubuntu"
[18:01] <cjwatson> cr3: not consistently
[18:02] <cjwatson> depending on the context, it could be either "Ubuntu" or "Canonical" or something else
[18:02] <cjwatson> cr3: I think it would help me answer your questions if you said what you were driving at :)
[18:03] <cr3> cjwatson: I'm mapping images from cdimage.u.c and release.u.c, so I need naming or mapping tables consistent across the websites and the images themselves, eg .disk/info
[18:04] <cjwatson> I think "flavour" is the right word to use, then
[18:05] <cr3> cjwatson: excellent, thanks!
[18:08] <directhex> gah! after all that, mono 2.0-1 just passed debian NEW
[18:08] <directhex> (which is not 2.0.1, and has several packaging bugs, but still)
[18:09] <directhex> my "1 month left" estimate has been proven wrong
[18:11] <nikolam> Hi,
[18:11] <nikolam> Hi, could anyone confirm that packages.ubuntu.com is eather slow or unresponsive?
[18:12] <Mithrandir> nikolam: seems unresponsive from here too
[18:13] <directhex> ooh, an ikonia
[18:17] <guille_> hi all
[18:19] <guille_> i'm trying to compile mysql-server with the SphinxSE storage engine. from what i've seen the storage engine is already enabled on debian/rules; but i can't build the package because it doesn't find some files
[18:20] <guille_> has somebody faced this problem?
[18:21] <madduck> anyone ever seen this?
[18:21] <madduck> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:265: process_queue: Assertion `!queue.length' failed.
[18:21] <madduck> during dpkg --configure -a
[18:22] <madduck> http://1t2.us/223311
[18:24] <james_w> bug 236047?
[18:24] <madduck> i suppose i could have search the web, couldn't I? :)
[18:26] <madduck> mkdir /var/run/dbus fixed it for me...
[18:28] <james_w> looks like the dbus postinst is buggy
[18:28] <madduck> yes, can't deal with varrun tmpfs
[18:30] <james_w> bug 275229
[18:32] <madduck> is james_w a bot? :)
[18:33] <madduck> the 8.04→8.10 upgrade didn't go well on all of the three machines i had to upgrade. :/
[18:34] <jdong> how did you upgrade?
[18:35] <madduck> do-release-upgrade, after update-manager just wouldn't do anything when I clicked 'upgrade';
[18:35] <jdong> interesting; do you have the log from /var/log for this upgrade?
[18:36] <madduck> which fiel?
[18:36]  * madduck doesn't know ubuntu at all
[18:37] <jdong> madduck: the logs in the /var/log/dist-upgrade directory
[18:37] <jdong> there should be two
[18:37] <madduck> there are three
[18:37] <madduck> -rw-------  1 root root 818113 2008-11-23 00:33 apt-term.log
[18:37] <madduck> -rw-r--r--  1 root root  56795 2008-11-22 19:34 apt.log
[18:37] <madduck> -rw-r--r--  1 root root  31081 2008-11-22 20:31 main.log
[18:38] <madduck> http://scratch.madduck.net/__tmp__ubuntu-upgrade.tgz
[18:38] <cjwatson> 'ubuntu-bug -p update-manager' should grab them automatically
[18:39] <cjwatson> (and attach them to a bug report)
[18:39] <madduck> why oh why does this require a launchpad account?
[18:41] <jdong> cjwatson: that is beautiful. Thanks!
[18:42] <madduck> so the tool collects data for the developers but doesn't tell me what it collects and submits to launchpad?
[18:42] <cjwatson> it requires a launchpad account because all bug filing requires a launchpad account
[18:42] <mvo> madduck: thanks for the logs, that looks like it was/is hanging in dovecot, do you see anything debconf releated in the terminal?
[18:43] <cjwatson> I think it's a bug that it doesn't tell you what it's collecting
[18:43] <mvo> madduck: or rather, it seems like its a issue with the ucf three way merge, is the machine still running?
[18:43] <jdong> what's with all the scrollkeeper barfing?
[18:43] <mvo> unfortunately ucf caused some issues this time around :/
[18:43] <cjwatson> bug 195514
[18:43] <jdong>                   <para><guimenuitem>Προτιμήσεις&Βοήθεια;</gui
[18:44] <jdong> does that actually mean that the close </guimenuitem> tag ended halfway through?
[18:44] <jdong> or is only part of the line being shown?
[18:44] <mvo> jdong: probably bad termianl output, scrollkeeper was complaining but not erroring out AFAICS
[18:45] <madduck> mvo: i lost the ssh connection during the dpkg run, but I was able to recover later.
[18:45] <mvo> madduck: *urgh^2*
[18:45] <madduck> The problem was much earlier, which forced me to run do-release-upgrade by hand.
[18:45] <jdong> mvo: hmm, immediately afterwards it screams about unmatched tags, which made me worry.
[18:45] <jdong> madduck: that might be a problem.
[18:46] <madduck> #301783
[18:46] <jdong> mvo would know more accurately but I don't think dpkg "recovery" is as atomic as yo'd want it to be
[18:46] <madduck> i ran out of time to do more on this for now though. :(
[18:46] <mvo> bug 301783
[18:47] <madduck> not the best bug report i ever filed :(
[18:47] <mvo> madduck: are all upgrades failing in the same way?
[18:48] <mvo> madduck: do you run out of time now? if so, I would love to debug ths when you have more time at hand
[18:48] <madduck> yeah, i have to leave...
[18:49] <madduck> can it still be debugged even thoguh i already did the dist-upgrade?
[18:49] <mvo> madduck: might, be, please ping me when you have a bit of time and I will do my best
[18:49] <madduck> will try to.
[18:50] <mvo> thanks
[18:51] <madduck> feel free to remind me if i forget.
[18:51] <mvo> will do
[18:51] <madduck> i do have the system in zurich now until 15 dec
[18:51] <madduck> uh, 12 dec\
[18:53] <mvo> pitti: do you think we could add SSH_TTY (or one of the SSH_ ones) to the sudo environment whitelist? rational is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/301787
[18:57] <pitti> mvo: technically we can, of course, but you now how much pain I feel with doing that
[18:58] <pitti> mvo: can't we detect SSH-ness in a more robust way?
[18:59] <pitti> mvo: "tty" gives the current terminal, while "who" knows that the terminal is not local
[18:59] <pitti> mvo: you can also ask ConsoleKit, ssh has "is-local = FALSE"
[19:00] <pitti> mvo: (and additionally remote-host-name and display-device = '/dev/ssh')
[19:01] <mvo> pitti: is consolekit running for servers as well?
[19:01] <pitti> mvo: not necessarily
[19:01] <pitti> but uname should do as well?
[19:01] <pitti> # who -m
[19:01] <pitti> martin   pts/2        2008-11-24 16:15 (:0.0)
[19:01] <pitti> ^ local
[19:01] <pitti> martin   pts/0        2008-11-24 19:56 (tick)
[19:01] <pitti> ^ ssh
[19:02] <pitti> mvo: at least that's much harder to forge than env SUDO_TTY=foo sudo
[19:02] <mvo> pitti: right, I like this less than looking at the environment TBH
[19:02]  * mvo looks into how "who" gets this information
[19:03] <pitti> mvo: /var/log/wtmp
[19:04] <mvo> aha, getutxent
[19:04] <pitti> mvo: man wtmp
[19:04] <mvo> thanks, I will use that then
[19:05]  * pitti hugs mvo
[19:07] <pitti> mvo: ah, that even has a ut_host; I guess you just need to test that for emptyness
[19:08] <mvo> pitti: yeah - bindings seem to be not part of default python though, maybe I add something via ctypes, lets see
[19:11] <pitti> mvo: parsing "who -m" (aka "who am i") output isn't difficult either
[19:11] <pitti> might be a little more robust than ctypes
[19:12] <pitti> mvo: even easier with who -m --ips :)
[19:13] <mvo> pitti: I guess so, it just feelt that using a proper api would be better. but I guess the output of who has not changed in a long time :)
[19:14] <pitti> mvo: probably as reliable as the ssh env vars ;)
[19:15] <cjwatson> pitti: what was the bug number for that CD-eject thing?
[19:15] <cjwatson> pitti: just wondering if bug 280289 is the same
[19:16] <pitti> cjwatson: bug 283316)
[19:16] <cjwatson> ah, thanks
[19:16] <pitti> cjwatson: hm, that sounds like the opposite problem?
[19:17] <cjwatson> pitti: it could be that it ejects fractionally and then closes immediately, which is hard to distinguish from failing to eject at all
[19:18] <cjwatson> begins the process but doesn't actually drive the motor, or something
[19:18] <mvo> oh, I get the cdrom close issue too here quite often
[19:24] <pitti> mvo: erm, still?
[19:25] <guille_> yet trying to build mysql+sphinxse, this is the last error: http://gist.github.com/28563
[19:25] <mvo> pitti: this is a machine I have not updated yet
[19:25] <guille_> does it mean something useful?
[19:35] <TomJaeger> Hi, who is upstream for acpi-support?
[19:38] <TomJaeger> acpi_fakekey really needs to be fixed
[20:10] <bryce> TomJaeger: do you have a patch?
[20:23] <bigon> someone has figured out why with some pkg FTBFS with error like "../../libtool: line 838: X--tag=CXX: command not found" ? the same pkg build correctly on experimental
[20:26] <james_w> bigon: it needs relibtoolize
[20:27] <james_w> there is version skew between what is in the tree and the libtool version installed
[20:27] <bigon> james_w: yeah but why does it works on experimental? the version in experimental is > than in jaunty
[20:28] <blueyed> TomJaeger: AFAIK Ubuntu is upstream for acpi-support.
[20:28] <james_w> bigon: oh, yeah, I forgot that.
[20:31] <ogra> blueyed, i think thats changed somewhere around hardy
[20:32] <ogra> debian should be it now
[20:34] <blueyed> ogra: well, Ubuntu has 0.114, but Debian 0.109-9 (unstable)
[20:34] <ogra> hmm
[20:35] <ogra> i know we only pulled from debian for a while now ... weird
[20:35] <blueyed> ..and I've read about Ubuntu being mentioned as "upstream" in Debian's changelogs
[20:35] <adrian15> siretart: hi.
[20:35] <blueyed> ogra: maybe experimental then?
[20:35] <ogra> i know we were upstream for a while as well as we were for initrmafs-tools
[20:35] <ogra> but afaik both was handed over to debian
[20:35] <adrian15> siretart: I was wondering if fai package had an implementation for having intrepid in a host client.
[20:42] <stgraber> slangasek: hey, ogra just uploaded my new ldm that introduces a new binary package (ldminfod). This one used to be included in ltsp-server but has been moved to ldm's source package and now has a new binary package for it.
[20:42] <stgraber> slangasek: does that require a MIR or can it just be acked as it already was in main but in another binary package ?
[20:46] <slangasek> stgraber: doesn't need an MIR, just a reminder poke to get it in the right place if it isn't already
[20:48] <afflux> adrian15: can I help you?
[20:48] <adrian15> afflux: ok
[20:49] <stgraber> slangasek: ok, it's in binary new at the moment, I'll check that it's then included in the right component
[20:49] <adrian15> afflux: I am trying to setup an ubuntu 8.10 fai installation so that it serves an ubuntu 8.10 to the clients.
[20:49] <adrian15> afflux: I think I have checked that last update of fai package was update to hardy ??!
[20:50] <adrian15> afflux: I have modified some variables and some packages to install but I get kernel panic on the client and many many errors. (And broken packages too when creating the nfs root folder).
[20:50] <adrian15> afflux: Do you have any experience on that ?
[20:51] <afflux> adrian15: err, no. I have no idea what fai is.
[20:51] <adrian15> what the hell
[20:52] <adrian15> I am sorry I thought I was talking on #fai on oftc
[20:52] <afflux> I see
[20:52] <adrian15> Fai is Fully Automatic Installation
[20:52] <adrian15> Well, must go, sorry.
[20:58] <afflux> cjwatson: for bug 301597, do you think I should add a "Replaces: @PVER@-minimal (<< 3.0~rc3-0ubuntu3)" or rather "python3.0-minimal (<< 3.0~rc3-0ubuntu3)"?
[21:00] <ogra_> stgraber, btw, ldm-ubuntu-themes surely deserves its own source package at some point
[21:00] <stgraber> ogra: yeah, it's somewhere on my list :) I also have a better ldm theme for Ubuntu waiting somewhere
[21:01] <stgraber> ogra: the current doesn't work well with 16bit display
[21:01] <ogra> right
[21:01] <ogra> well, i'm not sure i'll make it with the ldm UI rewrite for jaunty anyway
[21:01] <ogra> i should probably just put it into bzr and write a wikipage for it
[21:01] <ogra> so someone can pick it up
[21:10] <tedg> So if a string is in one program and translated, do other packages pick up that translation?
[21:16] <ogra> tedg, nope
[21:16] <ogra> taranslations are per binary
[21:16] <ogra> *trans
[21:17] <ogra> they are bound to the executble
[21:17] <ogra> *executable
[21:23] <tedg> ogra: :(  Okay, I thought that they were "distro" based.  Thanks.
[21:27] <slangasek> they're bound to a "text domain", actually
[21:27] <slangasek> which is usually, but not always, one per executable
[21:28] <ogra> right
[21:41] <tedg> So then how does a text domain get determined?  Should we be defining things like FUSA and Pidgin together so "Available" is the same everywhere?
[21:42] <tedg> I mean, one of the reasons we're using the word "Available" is to match Pidgin, it'd suck of that was different in different places after translation.
[22:15] <TomJaeger> bryce, (re acpi_fakekey) I don't have a patch, just PoC code (see bug #217504).  The thing is that uinput devices apparently don't become available right away, so I think we're going to need a daemon that is initialized on startup to actually send the key presses.
[22:16] <TomJaeger> I just wanted to make sure that upstream agrees that this is the way to go before I start coding.
[22:21] <bryce> TomJaeger: ah, well there isn't an upstream for acpi-support... or rather, *we* are the upstream
[22:22] <TomJaeger> I see
[22:23] <TomJaeger> So how do you feel about a daemon for sending key events to an uinput device?
[22:23] <bryce> TomJaeger: hmm
[22:24] <TomJaeger> maybe there is a better way?
[22:24] <bryce> I don't have anything against it, aside from "one more daemon process...".  If that's the only way to solve the issue, it's fine
[22:25] <bryce> the hmm is because there's been some discussion about gutting acpi-support, move relevant bits to hal or elsewhere more appropriate, and minimize the amount of stuff in the package
[22:30] <TomJaeger> okay, I don't know too much about hal, but what you're discribing will probably take some time, so I'll probably write the daemon, put it in my PPA and see how people are feeling about it then.
[22:30] <slangasek> tedg: in fact, it's possible using GNU gettext for FUSA to request the translation of 'Available' from the pidgin text domain, even if its own strings are in a separate text domain
[22:30] <TomJaeger> I'm not really sure it's the only way to solve it, but it's certainly the only way I can think of
[22:31] <slangasek> tedg: using dgettext() or dngettext()
[22:32] <bryce> TomJaeger: ok sounds good.  Fwiw, we'll be having a session on acpi hotkey goodness at UDS in a couple weeks.
[22:32] <tedg> slangasek: Hmm, interesting.  I didn't know about that, thanks.
[22:33] <bryce> the goal of the session will be to sort out what the "Should Be" architecture is for hotkeys, so we have a clearer design concept for where things like this should fit in
[22:33] <TomJaeger> sound like a good idea
[22:34] <bryce> TomJaeger: so definitely go ahead with the daemon approach for now - once it's tested maybe we can even pull it in.  Then when we have the acpi architecture documented properly maybe we can look at it all again in that light.
[22:34] <TomJaeger> alright, will do. Thanks
[22:38] <slangasek> tedg: be careful not to generate pot or po files for this extra text domain in your package, otherwise you might clobber LP's view of the pidgin translations :)
[22:38] <cjwatson> tedg: that sort of translation sharing should be handled in Launchpad
[22:38] <cjwatson> tedg: and indeed this is something they're working on at the moment
[22:38] <cjwatson> tedg: I don't think it's a good idea to mangle the text domains in use just to get this effect
[22:38] <slangasek> hmm
[22:39] <cjwatson> well, you could define a common text domain used by both, I suppose, if you also put the strings into some library ...?
[22:39] <slangasek> I disagree; msgstrs often don't have enough context on their own to be able to share translations with 100% reliability
[22:39] <cjwatson> I think you'd want to do that upstream though
[22:40] <slangasek> e.g., "Available" might mean "Present on the network" or it might mean "Not in a long-term relationship", and hilarity ensues
[22:40] <cjwatson> oh, I don't mean 100% automatic sharing, but making other translations of the same msgid be high up in what a translator sees
[22:40] <slangasek> ah, ok
[22:40] <cjwatson> I suppose it might be useful to share a text domain, but I don't think it should be either FUSA dgettext-ing pidgin's strings or the other way round
[22:40] <slangasek> a library would be better anyway, yeah
[22:40]  * tedg wants his IM choices to include "Married" 
[22:49] <slangasek> heh, "chris voudrait vous ajouter à ses amis sur Windows Live Spaces"
[22:54] <superm1> slangasek, for gnome-settings-daemon it looks like the version that's been getting uploaded is somehow getting copied into jaunty without changes from proposed.  i'm getting an SRU together for it right now, would you recommend i keep up that behavior (and ask an archive admin to do the same thing once this is in proposed), or switch back to the normal bumping of the version number to include the patch and upload twice?
[22:54] <cjwatson> superm1: we copied stuff from intrepid-proposed to jaunty when it was uploaded very early in the cycle before jaunty was properly open, but normally speaking the SRU policy says that uploads should have been tested in the unstable release first
[22:55] <superm1> cjwatson, well i've been working with upstream to develop this particular patch actually, but that explains what happened. i'll do two uploads then
[22:56] <cjwatson> sure, but still needs to be run through unstable - sometimes with the best intentions from upstream things go wrong in Ubuntu, not even necessarily upstream's fault
[22:57] <superm1> understandable