robsta1 | hi thorwil | 13:19 |
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thorwil | hi robsta1 | 13:19 |
=== robsta1 is now known as robsta | ||
robsta | thorwil: fyi, if nobody stands up to make a theme soon i'll release the css engine 0.3 without one | 13:27 |
robsta | maybe a new release attracts designers | 13:28 |
thorwil | robsta: what's the status regarding making a theme from a single svg? | 13:30 |
robsta | thorwil: rsvg patch committed, not released | 13:31 |
thorwil | robsta: should i go with svn or tarball? | 13:34 |
robsta | thorwil: svn | 13:34 |
robsta | but i need to activate the feature in the engine | 13:34 |
robsta | (later today) | 13:35 |
thorwil | is there an example/template svg? | 13:35 |
robsta | i'll set one up ASAP | 13:35 |
thorwil | robsta: i'm interested in that feature mainly for "prototyping" themes, but i guess nothing speaks against using an early attempt with it as example theme | 13:36 |
robsta | someone needs to send me an svg file with normal, active, prelight, selected insensitive buttons | 13:37 |
robsta | then i'll set up a skeleton | 13:37 |
thorwil | only command buttons? | 13:37 |
robsta | yes, for a start | 13:38 |
thorwil | robsta: ok, will do that | 13:40 |
robsta | thorwil: rock | 13:41 |
thorwil | robsta: are you going to use named rectangles to find the right areas, similar to jimmac's single canvas workflow for icons? | 13:43 |
robsta | thorwil: by xml id | 13:43 |
thorwil | robsta: the states you listed are all exclusive, except selected? | 13:48 |
robsta | thorwil: all are exclusive, possibly not all are possible | 13:49 |
robsta | normal, hover, pressed, insensitive would be a good start | 13:50 |
thorwil | robsta: prelight = hover and active = down, right? | 13:51 |
robsta | yes | 13:51 |
thorwil | robsta: selected is the thing used in dialogs, for the button tied to Enter? | 13:51 |
robsta | that's probably something different | 13:51 |
robsta | GtkButton[can-default=true] in CSS :) | 13:52 |
thorwil | robsta: but it also can't mean has focus, as i just saw a button with dotted rectangle for focus, keeping it during prelight and active | 13:53 |
robsta | that's yet something different | 13:54 |
thorwil | gtk.STATE_SELECTEDState of a selected item, such the selected row in a list. | 13:54 |
robsta | does probably not apply to buttons | 13:55 |
thorwil | that's just what i was thinking :) | 13:55 |
robsta | that's why i said the other 4 would be a good start | 13:55 |
thorwil | robsta: how do you intend to handle the slicing for rounded corners? | 14:04 |
robsta | thorwil: http://www.gnome.org/~robsta/gtk-css-engine/screenshots/14-border-image.png | 14:06 |
kwwii | thorwil: I like the campfire sketch, very nice :-) | 14:42 |
thorwil | kwwii: thanks :) | 14:42 |
* _MMA_ mentions that Inkscape SVN has new patches to make the "Blur" plugin use multicores/CPUs. ie: If you use the blur plugin on a pic it now uses multiple processors to render on-screen and to bitmap. | 14:45 | |
robsta | hey kwwii | 14:47 |
kwwii | hey _MMA_, robsta | 14:51 |
_MMA_ | yo yo. | 14:51 |
kwwii | _MMA_: that is probably why it doesn't build on my machine :p | 14:51 |
_MMA_ | kwwii: As of when? I grabbed it fresh yesterday and it worked fine. | 14:52 |
kwwii | _MMA_: it's been a week or so | 14:54 |
_MMA_ | Try now. People are reporting a 50% speed boost when using blur. | 14:54 |
kwwii | _MMA_: in the meantime I have been finishing off the 2d panel icons | 14:55 |
kwwii | wow, that sounds amazing | 14:55 |
_MMA_ | Oh nice. I'll be hittin' Breathe hard in the next couple of days. Maybe Thur/Fri. | 14:55 |
kwwii | another thing I've been looking into is having the panel icons use two different themes (one for a dark panel and one ofr a light panel) | 14:56 |
kwwii | I think we will have a demo ready for UDS | 14:56 |
robsta | kwwii: just so you know, pretty much all set for css themes now :) | 14:58 |
* robsta craving for designs now | 14:59 | |
_MMA_ | kwwii: Whenever you have something to test, lemmie know. | 14:59 |
kwwii | robsta: cool, I was discussing the gtk-css stuff in a planning session for 9.04 | 15:13 |
kwwii | robsta: I am definitely pushing forward with making a theme but I guess 9.04 is a bit too early | 15:13 |
kwwii | _MMA_: will do | 15:13 |
robsta | kwwii: 9.04 hmm, yeah | 15:13 |
_MMA_ | Well, for default sure. But for *something* maybe not. Maybe someone can do a simple theme that can be shipped? | 15:15 |
kwwii | _MMA_: right, that was my plan | 15:15 |
* _MMA_ was thinkin' about learning CSS to try his hand at a theme. | 15:15 | |
robsta | _MMA_: do you know gtkrc? | 15:17 |
robsta | anyway, at some point we'll have a template and you may just have to change the inkscape file :) | 15:18 |
_MMA_ | robsta: Yep. Pretty much. | 15:21 |
robsta | _MMA_: then you're all set | 15:21 |
* _MMA_ does alot of the hacking on Ubuntu Studio's default theme. | 15:21 | |
_MMA_ | robsta: Can I have a link to the current documentation for the CSS engine? | 15:22 |
robsta | documentation? | 15:23 |
_MMA_ | Yes | 15:23 |
robsta | you can look at the existing themes | 15:23 |
_MMA_ | I understand it's CSS but everything has it's quirks. | 15:23 |
_MMA_ | So I'm looking for any examples and notes about issues. | 15:24 |
robsta | sure, i just didn't get around to write it, also because things have been in a flux | 15:24 |
_MMA_ | And this is the biggest place we "fail". We create things/code and only we know how to use it. | 15:25 |
_MMA_ | Documentation is key to get people to do theming. | 15:25 |
_MMA_ | Cimi actually did pretty well with this with Murrine. | 15:25 |
robsta | _MMA_, look, there is limited value in spending half a day on documentation when things are thrown over the day after | 15:26 |
robsta | this is just a very young project | 15:26 |
_MMA_ | I'd love to help creatye buzz for this but I'm sure others will ask the same basic questions I have. :) | 15:26 |
_MMA_ | *create | 15:26 |
robsta | _MMA_: i am very much pro docs and have complete API docs for libccss, the CSS library that's powering the engine | 15:27 |
_MMA_ | robsta: Them calling for people to test/create things at this point might be premature as well. | 15:27 |
_MMA_ | *Then | 15:27 |
robsta | if you know gtkrc and css it's very natural | 15:28 |
_MMA_ | And you *seem* to be getting defencive. We're just chattin' here. ;) | 15:28 |
_MMA_ | *defensive | 15:28 |
robsta | _MMA_: i'm not looking for buzz, just a single designer | 15:28 |
robsta | an early adopter, who isn't afraid to try someting new | 15:29 |
_MMA_ | kwwii: Are the panel icons you're working a small set that depend on human? | 15:30 |
kwwii | _MMA_: we are still working out how to do it exactly | 15:32 |
kwwii | most likely it will be a small set which depends on human, yes | 15:32 |
kwwii | but...as always there is a but | 15:32 |
_MMA_ | Ahh... Ok. Cool | 15:32 |
_MMA_ | I have no plans to mess with the Studio set but if you get this working I might consider adopting your changes. | 15:33 |
kwwii | cool | 15:34 |
robsta | _MMA_: no offense, i'm just a bit annoyed having had like half a dozen designers telling me how great it was, but nobody able to send me an svg file with just 4 buttons in it yet | 15:34 |
_MMA_ | robsta: Sure. It's still no reason to get pissy at someone. ;) Especially being the new guy around here. :) | 15:35 |
_MMA_ | kwwii: So no work from Mirco (MacSlow) on new GDM? | 15:36 |
_MMA_ | gah s/work/word | 15:36 |
kwwii | _MMA_: actually, I am not sure what is going on with that | 15:37 |
_MMA_ | Ok. | 15:37 |
kwwii | I thought he was close to being done with that | 15:37 |
kwwii | since we moved teams around things have gotten a little confusing | 15:37 |
kwwii | I still haven't talked to my new boss yet | 15:37 |
kwwii | I don't think he knows he is my boss | 15:37 |
_MMA_ | I see. I'm sure UDS will shed some light on things. | 15:37 |
kwwii | hopefully | 15:38 |
robsta | _MMA_: i'll work on it if you point out where i was gettig pissy, honestly | 15:38 |
_MMA_ | haha! He is now? :) | 15:38 |
_MMA_ | "robsta: _MMA_, look, there is limited value in spending half a day on documentation when things are thrown over the day after" *Usually* in the real world, when this is said with the pause that way it's a but forward/aggressive/shows annoyance. (which you admitted to) | 15:41 |
_MMA_ | SO though this 'ol interweb here is non-emoting there's a way to say things. Like I said, "We're just chattin' here. ;)". | 15:42 |
_MMA_ | kwwii: You pushed any changes to Jaunty yet? I'm thinking of taking the font sizes 1pt smaller in Studio. | 15:43 |
kwwii | _MMA_: haven't done anything so far other than bug fixing | 15:44 |
kwwii | probably a good idea, if you ask me though | 15:44 |
kwwii | and now that droid is out in the open, I think we could look into using that | 15:45 |
_MMA_ | Well, I'm already 1pt smaller than Ubuntu now. :P So I would go to something like 8,8,8,9,8 | 15:45 |
robsta | _MMA_: i apologise; possibly my thinking to cross-check things with a technically (read: CSS and gtkrc) versed designer before diving into documentation is flawed | 15:46 |
_MMA_ | np | 15:46 |
_MMA_ | kwwii: I just felt on 1024x768 things still looked too, "Duplo". SO I've been using 8,8,8,9,8 on 1920x1200 & 1024x768 and it just feels tighter. More polished. | 15:48 |
kwwii | _MMA_: one of the first things I do is to reduce them to 9 | 15:51 |
kwwii | across the board | 15:51 |
kwwii | so I undestand you :-) | 15:51 |
_MMA_ | Yeah. I even felt 9 wasn't tight enough. And though that's what windows is set to, it still *looks* slightly larger. I'll push the change soon and see how things go. | 15:53 |
_MMA_ | I gotta put out a call for someone to revamp the website. @ years and it's gettin' a *little* stale. | 15:53 |
_MMA_ | s/@/2 | 15:53 |
_MMA_ | Need a Drupal themer. | 15:54 |
thorwil | robsta: you will have your buttons today ;) | 16:27 |
robsta | thorwil: \o/ | 16:28 |
thorwil | robsta: and i don't think the way you approach this is wrong. but there are few designers and most are probably like me in always having several things to work on :) | 16:30 |
robsta | thorwil: it's kindof a chicken-and-egg problem | 16:49 |
thorwil | 4 button states, quick take: http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08482/button_states864.png | 17:05 |
thorwil | robsta: you got mail. i organised the svg with layers, with rects in the layer "plates" as export targets. just to show how i would do it :) | 17:06 |
robsta | thorwil: teh awesomeness | 17:07 |
robsta | thorwil: must run now, are you on tomorrow? | 17:08 |
thorwil | robsta: sure | 17:08 |
robsta | cool, see you | 17:09 |
thorwil | cya | 17:09 |
robsta | i'll try to do the theme directly from that file | 17:09 |
thorwil | _MMA_: http://www.viceland.com/int/v15n11/htdocs/dark-lord-of-logos-302.php | 17:32 |
* _MMA_ knows his work well. :P | 17:51 | |
_MMA_ | That interviewer was a tool. | 17:53 |
thorwil | didn't read it, just viewed the slideshow :) | 17:53 |
* thorwil -> dinner | 17:54 | |
thorwil | is it even possible that a button will not have focus as soon as you click it? | 19:36 |
thorwil | kwwii: can you explain the difference between widget-focus as typically denoted with a dotted rectangle and the default button mark in dialogs (orange border in ubuntu)? | 19:43 |
kwwii | thorwil: not sure what you want me to explain | 20:02 |
thorwil | kwwii: just got an explanation in gnome-art | 20:03 |
thorwil | kwwii: it's about the separated keyboard/enter focus in dialogs | 20:03 |
kwwii | thorwil: right, it is about keyboard focus vs. active elements | 20:03 |
thorwil | kwwii: it's kinda broken in the Open dialog of Totem as i noted when playing with it to understand the model | 20:04 |
thorwil | kwwii: you can tab the focus to the "Supported files" combo. it will then catch and react to enter without having that orange aura | 20:05 |
kwwii | hrm, sounds freaky | 20:08 |
kwwii | I never liked the doted lines stuff...always seemed unecessary if you don't use a keyboard to navigate to me | 20:08 |
thorwil | i don't like the either | 20:08 |
thorwil | but having that other way of marking a button for enter-focus makes it much harder to do something else | 20:09 |
kwwii | true | 20:09 |
thorwil | kwwii: i'm extending that button svg i made for Rob. intention is to include _all_ states/combinations. might put it up with a call for designs. "how should a Ubuntu button look like?" | 20:11 |
thorwil | of course i expect silence as answer :} | 20:11 |
kwwii | killer, sounds good | 20:13 |
kwwii | sorry, putting my son to sleep | 20:13 |
kwwii | well, to bed, not to sleep :-) | 20:14 |
kwwii | thorwil: didn't see the button svg...link? | 20:16 |
thorwil | kwwii: http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08482/button_states864.png i only mailed the svg to Rob | 20:17 |
kwwii | looks pretty good | 20:18 |
thorwil | ty. was a quick job, actually | 20:19 |
kwwii | I made a mockup somewhere with new ideas in it, naturally, I cannot find it now | 20:19 |
thorwil | heh | 20:20 |
kwwii | ahhh, yes...http://sinecera.de/mock.png | 20:28 |
kwwii | never got very far with that | 20:28 |
thorwil | do i see a hint of a concave surface there? | 20:30 |
kwwii | yeah, probably not the best idea, looking at it now it looks a lot like keramik (very popular kde style fromt the 2.0 days) | 20:30 |
kwwii | I find that I keep making mockups which look quite like stuff I did 10 years ago :p | 20:31 |
thorwil | would be wicked to model actual buttons with hd foam, spray-paint them, light-setup, photos :) | 20:32 |
* thorwil has the material but not the tools | 20:36 | |
kwwii | thorwil: actually, a very good idea | 20:37 |
thorwil | kwwii: but how to make it possible? | 20:39 |
kwwii | thorwil: in the end it would probably be easier with a renderer anyway | 20:39 |
thorwil | i once started to model a button and surface with hole in blender to do the next best thing but didn't get far regarding lighting | 20:40 |
kwwii | although I have tried blender a lot I never really liked the interface | 20:41 |
thorwil | kwwii: do you have experience with other 3d apps? | 20:41 |
kwwii | I tend to use cinema 4D (been using that for like 14-15 years) | 20:41 |
kwwii | thorwil: yes, before I got into linux I had a company with a couple of other guys working on music videos, tv commercials, etc | 20:42 |
thorwil | oh. tried that once. cinema felt very clumsy to me | 20:43 |
kwwii | different strokes for different folks :-) | 20:43 |
thorwil | heh, right | 20:43 |
kwwii | I just like the modeller in cinema4D | 20:43 |
thorwil | damn, time slipping through my fingers :) good night! | 21:08 |
=== _MMA_ is now known as MetalMusicAddict |
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