[13:19] hi thorwil [13:19] hi robsta1 === robsta1 is now known as robsta [13:27] thorwil: fyi, if nobody stands up to make a theme soon i'll release the css engine 0.3 without one [13:28] maybe a new release attracts designers [13:30] robsta: what's the status regarding making a theme from a single svg? [13:31] thorwil: rsvg patch committed, not released [13:34] robsta: should i go with svn or tarball? [13:34] thorwil: svn [13:34] but i need to activate the feature in the engine [13:35] (later today) [13:35] is there an example/template svg? [13:35] i'll set one up ASAP [13:36] robsta: i'm interested in that feature mainly for "prototyping" themes, but i guess nothing speaks against using an early attempt with it as example theme [13:37] someone needs to send me an svg file with normal, active, prelight, selected insensitive buttons [13:37] then i'll set up a skeleton [13:37] only command buttons? [13:38] yes, for a start [13:40] robsta: ok, will do that [13:41] thorwil: rock [13:43] robsta: are you going to use named rectangles to find the right areas, similar to jimmac's single canvas workflow for icons? [13:43] thorwil: by xml id [13:48] robsta: the states you listed are all exclusive, except selected? [13:49] thorwil: all are exclusive, possibly not all are possible [13:50] normal, hover, pressed, insensitive would be a good start [13:51] robsta: prelight = hover and active = down, right? [13:51] yes [13:51] robsta: selected is the thing used in dialogs, for the button tied to Enter? [13:51] that's probably something different [13:52] GtkButton[can-default=true] in CSS :) [13:53] robsta: but it also can't mean has focus, as i just saw a button with dotted rectangle for focus, keeping it during prelight and active [13:54] that's yet something different [13:54] gtk.STATE_SELECTED State of a selected item, such the selected row in a list. [13:55] does probably not apply to buttons [13:55] that's just what i was thinking :) [13:55] that's why i said the other 4 would be a good start [14:04] robsta: how do you intend to handle the slicing for rounded corners? [14:06] thorwil: http://www.gnome.org/~robsta/gtk-css-engine/screenshots/14-border-image.png [14:42] thorwil: I like the campfire sketch, very nice :-) [14:42] kwwii: thanks :) [14:45] * _MMA_ mentions that Inkscape SVN has new patches to make the "Blur" plugin use multicores/CPUs. ie: If you use the blur plugin on a pic it now uses multiple processors to render on-screen and to bitmap. [14:47] hey kwwii [14:51] hey _MMA_, robsta [14:51] <_MMA_> yo yo. [14:51] _MMA_: that is probably why it doesn't build on my machine :p [14:52] <_MMA_> kwwii: As of when? I grabbed it fresh yesterday and it worked fine. [14:54] _MMA_: it's been a week or so [14:54] <_MMA_> Try now. People are reporting a 50% speed boost when using blur. [14:55] _MMA_: in the meantime I have been finishing off the 2d panel icons [14:55] wow, that sounds amazing [14:55] <_MMA_> Oh nice. I'll be hittin' Breathe hard in the next couple of days. Maybe Thur/Fri. [14:56] another thing I've been looking into is having the panel icons use two different themes (one for a dark panel and one ofr a light panel) [14:56] I think we will have a demo ready for UDS [14:58] kwwii: just so you know, pretty much all set for css themes now :) [14:59] * robsta craving for designs now [14:59] <_MMA_> kwwii: Whenever you have something to test, lemmie know. [15:13] robsta: cool, I was discussing the gtk-css stuff in a planning session for 9.04 [15:13] robsta: I am definitely pushing forward with making a theme but I guess 9.04 is a bit too early [15:13] _MMA_: will do [15:13] kwwii: 9.04 hmm, yeah [15:15] <_MMA_> Well, for default sure. But for *something* maybe not. Maybe someone can do a simple theme that can be shipped? [15:15] _MMA_: right, that was my plan [15:15] * _MMA_ was thinkin' about learning CSS to try his hand at a theme. [15:17] _MMA_: do you know gtkrc? [15:18] anyway, at some point we'll have a template and you may just have to change the inkscape file :) [15:21] <_MMA_> robsta: Yep. Pretty much. [15:21] _MMA_: then you're all set [15:21] * _MMA_ does alot of the hacking on Ubuntu Studio's default theme. [15:22] <_MMA_> robsta: Can I have a link to the current documentation for the CSS engine? [15:23] documentation? [15:23] <_MMA_> Yes [15:23] you can look at the existing themes [15:23] <_MMA_> I understand it's CSS but everything has it's quirks. [15:24] <_MMA_> So I'm looking for any examples and notes about issues. [15:24] sure, i just didn't get around to write it, also because things have been in a flux [15:25] <_MMA_> And this is the biggest place we "fail". We create things/code and only we know how to use it. [15:25] <_MMA_> Documentation is key to get people to do theming. [15:25] <_MMA_> Cimi actually did pretty well with this with Murrine. [15:26] _MMA_, look, there is limited value in spending half a day on documentation when things are thrown over the day after [15:26] this is just a very young project [15:26] <_MMA_> I'd love to help creatye buzz for this but I'm sure others will ask the same basic questions I have. :) [15:26] <_MMA_> *create [15:27] _MMA_: i am very much pro docs and have complete API docs for libccss, the CSS library that's powering the engine [15:27] <_MMA_> robsta: Them calling for people to test/create things at this point might be premature as well. [15:27] <_MMA_> *Then [15:28] if you know gtkrc and css it's very natural [15:28] <_MMA_> And you *seem* to be getting defencive. We're just chattin' here. ;) [15:28] <_MMA_> *defensive [15:28] _MMA_: i'm not looking for buzz, just a single designer [15:29] an early adopter, who isn't afraid to try someting new [15:30] <_MMA_> kwwii: Are the panel icons you're working a small set that depend on human? [15:32] _MMA_: we are still working out how to do it exactly [15:32] most likely it will be a small set which depends on human, yes [15:32] but...as always there is a but [15:32] <_MMA_> Ahh... Ok. Cool [15:33] <_MMA_> I have no plans to mess with the Studio set but if you get this working I might consider adopting your changes. [15:34] cool [15:34] _MMA_: no offense, i'm just a bit annoyed having had like half a dozen designers telling me how great it was, but nobody able to send me an svg file with just 4 buttons in it yet [15:35] <_MMA_> robsta: Sure. It's still no reason to get pissy at someone. ;) Especially being the new guy around here. :) [15:36] <_MMA_> kwwii: So no work from Mirco (MacSlow) on new GDM? [15:36] <_MMA_> gah s/work/word [15:37] _MMA_: actually, I am not sure what is going on with that [15:37] <_MMA_> Ok. [15:37] I thought he was close to being done with that [15:37] since we moved teams around things have gotten a little confusing [15:37] I still haven't talked to my new boss yet [15:37] I don't think he knows he is my boss [15:37] <_MMA_> I see. I'm sure UDS will shed some light on things. [15:38] hopefully [15:38] _MMA_: i'll work on it if you point out where i was gettig pissy, honestly [15:38] <_MMA_> haha! He is now? :) [15:41] <_MMA_> "robsta: _MMA_, look, there is limited value in spending half a day on documentation when things are thrown over the day after" *Usually* in the real world, when this is said with the pause that way it's a but forward/aggressive/shows annoyance. (which you admitted to) [15:42] <_MMA_> SO though this 'ol interweb here is non-emoting there's a way to say things. Like I said, "We're just chattin' here. ;)". [15:43] <_MMA_> kwwii: You pushed any changes to Jaunty yet? I'm thinking of taking the font sizes 1pt smaller in Studio. [15:44] _MMA_: haven't done anything so far other than bug fixing [15:44] probably a good idea, if you ask me though [15:45] and now that droid is out in the open, I think we could look into using that [15:45] <_MMA_> Well, I'm already 1pt smaller than Ubuntu now. :P So I would go to something like 8,8,8,9,8 [15:46] _MMA_: i apologise; possibly my thinking to cross-check things with a technically (read: CSS and gtkrc) versed designer before diving into documentation is flawed [15:46] <_MMA_> np [15:48] <_MMA_> kwwii: I just felt on 1024x768 things still looked too, "Duplo". SO I've been using 8,8,8,9,8 on 1920x1200 & 1024x768 and it just feels tighter. More polished. [15:51] _MMA_: one of the first things I do is to reduce them to 9 [15:51] across the board [15:51] so I undestand you :-) [15:53] <_MMA_> Yeah. I even felt 9 wasn't tight enough. And though that's what windows is set to, it still *looks* slightly larger. I'll push the change soon and see how things go. [15:53] <_MMA_> I gotta put out a call for someone to revamp the website. @ years and it's gettin' a *little* stale. [15:53] <_MMA_> s/@/2 [15:54] <_MMA_> Need a Drupal themer. [16:27] robsta: you will have your buttons today ;) [16:28] thorwil: \o/ [16:30] robsta: and i don't think the way you approach this is wrong. but there are few designers and most are probably like me in always having several things to work on :) [16:49] thorwil: it's kindof a chicken-and-egg problem [17:05] 4 button states, quick take: http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08482/button_states864.png [17:06] robsta: you got mail. i organised the svg with layers, with rects in the layer "plates" as export targets. just to show how i would do it :) [17:07] thorwil: teh awesomeness [17:08] thorwil: must run now, are you on tomorrow? [17:08] robsta: sure [17:09] cool, see you [17:09] cya [17:09] i'll try to do the theme directly from that file [17:32] _MMA_: http://www.viceland.com/int/v15n11/htdocs/dark-lord-of-logos-302.php [17:51] * _MMA_ knows his work well. :P [17:53] <_MMA_> That interviewer was a tool. [17:53] didn't read it, just viewed the slideshow :) [17:54] * thorwil -> dinner [19:36] is it even possible that a button will not have focus as soon as you click it? [19:43] kwwii: can you explain the difference between widget-focus as typically denoted with a dotted rectangle and the default button mark in dialogs (orange border in ubuntu)? [20:02] thorwil: not sure what you want me to explain [20:03] kwwii: just got an explanation in gnome-art [20:03] kwwii: it's about the separated keyboard/enter focus in dialogs [20:03] thorwil: right, it is about keyboard focus vs. active elements [20:04] kwwii: it's kinda broken in the Open dialog of Totem as i noted when playing with it to understand the model [20:05] kwwii: you can tab the focus to the "Supported files" combo. it will then catch and react to enter without having that orange aura [20:08] hrm, sounds freaky [20:08] I never liked the doted lines stuff...always seemed unecessary if you don't use a keyboard to navigate to me [20:08] i don't like the either [20:09] but having that other way of marking a button for enter-focus makes it much harder to do something else [20:09] true [20:11] kwwii: i'm extending that button svg i made for Rob. intention is to include _all_ states/combinations. might put it up with a call for designs. "how should a Ubuntu button look like?" [20:11] of course i expect silence as answer :} [20:13] killer, sounds good [20:13] sorry, putting my son to sleep [20:14] well, to bed, not to sleep :-) [20:16] thorwil: didn't see the button svg...link? [20:17] kwwii: http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08482/button_states864.png i only mailed the svg to Rob [20:18] looks pretty good [20:19] ty. was a quick job, actually [20:19] I made a mockup somewhere with new ideas in it, naturally, I cannot find it now [20:20] heh [20:28] ahhh, yes...http://sinecera.de/mock.png [20:28] never got very far with that [20:30] do i see a hint of a concave surface there? [20:30] yeah, probably not the best idea, looking at it now it looks a lot like keramik (very popular kde style fromt the 2.0 days) [20:31] I find that I keep making mockups which look quite like stuff I did 10 years ago :p [20:32] would be wicked to model actual buttons with hd foam, spray-paint them, light-setup, photos :) [20:36] * thorwil has the material but not the tools [20:37] thorwil: actually, a very good idea [20:39] kwwii: but how to make it possible? [20:39] thorwil: in the end it would probably be easier with a renderer anyway [20:40] i once started to model a button and surface with hole in blender to do the next best thing but didn't get far regarding lighting [20:41] although I have tried blender a lot I never really liked the interface [20:41] kwwii: do you have experience with other 3d apps? [20:41] I tend to use cinema 4D (been using that for like 14-15 years) [20:42] thorwil: yes, before I got into linux I had a company with a couple of other guys working on music videos, tv commercials, etc [20:43] oh. tried that once. cinema felt very clumsy to me [20:43] different strokes for different folks :-) [20:43] heh, right [20:43] I just like the modeller in cinema4D [21:08] damn, time slipping through my fingers :) good night! === _MMA_ is now known as MetalMusicAddict