[00:12] <kees> can anyone reproduce this issue?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/299690
[00:13] <nhandler> kees: I couldn't reproduce it in jaunty
[00:14] <nellery> kees: just tried and couldn't reproduce
[00:14] <kees> okay, I'm not totally crazy then.  :)
[00:14] <kees> thx :)
[00:21] <chrisccoulson> i can't reproduce it either kees
[00:23] <kees> I've just managed to get it via ssh'ing into a 64bit intrepid VM I have
[00:33] <greg-g> interesting
[00:34] <chrisccoulson> i got it too by SSH'ing in to my jaunty VM
[00:35] <chrisccoulson> but it works if i run it locally
[02:06] <dwg> RAOF: ping?
[02:06] <RAOF> dwg: Pong?
[02:06] <dwg> RAOF: I've now attached a debdiff for the bug I mentioned yesterday
[02:07] <dwg> RAOF: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opal/+bug/297123
[02:08] <RAOF> Great.  Have you subscribed the appropriate sponsors team?
[02:09] <dwg> RAOF: uh.. how do I do that?
[02:10] <RAOF> Click the "Subscribe someone else" button, and subscibe eithen 'ubuntu-main-sponsors' or 'ubuntu-universe-sponsors', depending on whether opal is in main or universe.
[02:10] <dwg> RAOF: ok done.  but.. shouldnt
[02:11] <dwg> that happen automatically?
[02:11] <dwg> after all, isn't the point of a bug tracking system that the people who should be looking at bugs find out about them?
[02:11] <Elbrus> where should comments/questions about wiki pages go? (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates)
[02:12] <Elbrus> dwg: that's why you (or some triager...) should direct information to the appropriate person by subsribing them.
[02:13] <Elbrus> s/subsribing/subscribing
[02:13] <dwg> Elbrus: hrm, I see
[02:13] <dwg> Elbrus: first I knew I was a triager...
[02:25] <Elbrus> I am having problems on deciding what I should do with a bug that I am watching as involves several bugs. bug 260464 and bug 275688
[02:26] <Elbrus> both are set to fix-commited
[02:26] <Elbrus> but the sync of the latter reintroduced the first bug.
[02:26] <Elbrus> solution (and patch) are available
[02:26] <Elbrus> should I change the first one back to confirmed?
[02:28] <Elbrus> the patch against the 2.2.2-4 source are available in the 275688 report
[02:28] <Elbrus> s/are/is
[03:31] <Elbrus> anybody has an idea about the question I asked an hour ago? about bug 260464 and bug 275688
[04:23]  * Elbrus feels alone on this channel
[04:31] <danbhfive> Elbrus: are you asking a question about packaging?
[04:32] <Elbrus> danbhfive: more about handeling the status of the bugs
[04:32] <Elbrus> but is related to my help for SRU of fpc
[06:09] <dholbach> good morning
[06:11] <Hew> dholbach: good afternoon
[06:13] <dholbach> hi Hew
[06:26] <Pfiffer> bug 301458
[07:15] <Pfiffer> So for something like bug 301942, what should I do? I can't just ignore his suggestion, but I can't really do anything with it either. Should I just mark it as invalid/incomplete and move on?
[07:29] <jmarsden> Pfiffer: If you want to get serious about that bug, it is really about hotkey consistency across multiple apps, so write up something about that, look for any standards for such hotkeys and link to them?  Should most or all GUI apps use a consistent set of ctrl-key shortcuts?  It's not a bad idea...
[07:29] <jmarsden> It's probably a wishlist bug for consistency, really.
[07:30] <Pfiffer> Yeah, thats what I figured, just wasn't sure what the appropriate course of action was.
[07:30] <Pfiffer> Although I do kinda wanna go mess around with the gedit code and see if I can make it soctrl-t does open a new tab.
[07:30] <jmarsden> I'd research further, see if there are other similar bugs already in LP, maybe set to wishlist...
[07:30] <Pfiffer> Then up a patch or something.
[07:30] <Pfiffer> Alright, thanks.
[07:30] <jmarsden> :-)  You could do that, but that's not really solving the underlying issue IMO
[07:32] <Pfiffer> mhm, more like just grudgingly doing what the guy wants.
[07:33] <jmarsden> I guess.  Maybe change its title to something like "ctrl-key shortcuts in gedit - are inconsistent with those in FF"
[07:34] <jmarsden> I'm not sure how far to go with the whole idea...
[07:34] <jmarsden> If you just patch for ctrl-t, next you'll get requests for otehr hotkeys too... could be a neverending stream of such requests... so I think there has to be some sort of standard??
[07:39] <maco> jmarsden: oh oh i vote in favor of consistent hotkey usage!
[07:39] <jmarsden> maco: As long as you don't have to implement it across all apps, right? ;)
[07:40] <maco> jmarsden: all official gnome apps should have consistent hotkeys. it *should* be in the HIG, but i doubt it is.
[07:40] <maco> there should be a list of ones that are standard
[07:41] <jmarsden> OK, I *knew* there should be a standard for that somewhere... it would be a "Good Thing" TM to follow it... but maybe that turns one little tiny bug into a huge piece of work for multiple developers...
[07:41] <maco> ctrl+n for new, ctrl+v for paste, ctrl+c for copy, ctrl+x for cut, ctrl+p for paste are already de-facto standard
[07:41] <maco> but if its a real usability problem desktop-wide, it should be addressed
[07:41] <maco> it's not really a lot of work to change a handful of default hotkeys
[07:42] <maco> assuming you're not telling one person to change all the hotkeys in all the gnome apps by themself
[07:42] <jmarsden> Yes.  SO it comes down to who will do all those little patches :-)  ctrl-t for a new tab doesn't seem like a bad idea to me, but I have no idea if there is a standard for that or not.
[07:43] <Pfiffer> maco: ctrl+p _and_ ctrl+v for paste? :P
[07:43] <maco> Pfiffer: i meant ctrl+p for print haha
[07:43] <maco> oops
[07:43] <Pfiffer> heh
[07:43] <maco> that seems to be standard...but then gnome-terminal uses standard+shift for all its' stuff because of ctrl+c being an interrupt
[07:43] <Pfiffer> I am rather fond of shift+insert being paste.
[07:43] <maco> oh, ctrl+o and ctrl+s and ctrl+a are also very standard
[07:44] <maco> oh thats one i just learned this summer. it didn't seem convenient due to hand-span
[07:44] <Pfiffer> Just seems to be habit now.
[07:44] <jmarsden> http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/input-keyboard.html#standard-shortcuts
[07:44] <maco> shift+insert is available throughout X though, isnt it?
[07:45] <Pfiffer> I'm not actually sure, I just assumed magic.
[07:46] <maco> woah, i thought the alt+left/right/up/down and ctrl+l were just firefox things
[07:47] <maco> so apparently there is a standard keyboard shortcut list
[07:47] <jmarsden> And that standard says ctrl-p means "Print the current document", so using it for paste might give yu a big surprise one day ;)
[07:47] <maco> jmarsden: yeah yeah it was a typo
[07:48] <jmarsden> Anyway, that should be enough for Pfiffer to get started adding a decent comment to this bug about gedit.
[07:50] <jmarsden> Since ctrl-t is not in the standard, maybe we could answer this request by pointing to the standard list and saying it's not in there??  Then it could be closed as invalid??
[07:50] <maco> or forward it to gnome as "should be in the HIG"
[07:51] <maco> the HIG hasn't had a revision, as far as i know, since 2002, though
[07:51] <jmarsden> Isn't that URL I posted a subsection of the HIG in some sense, per its URL path??
[07:52] <maco> yes it is
[07:52] <maco> i'm saying we could request that the HIG be revised to include ctrl+t
[07:52] <maco> but i dont know how likely it is to get a response, since i dont think the HIG is revised very often
[07:53] <jmarsden> Oh, I see.  Yes, maybe.  Back in 2002 there may not have been many tabbed apps out there.
[07:53] <maco> exactly
[07:53] <maco> being a common feature, adding ctrl+t, ctrl+tab, and ctrl+shift+tab might be a good idea nowadays
[07:55] <maco> oh ctrl+tab and ctrl+shift+tab are already taken :-/
[07:55] <maco> they replace tab and shift+tab for navigating widgets by keyboard when the current widget will accept a tab as input
[07:56] <maco> then again, in most gtk apps, switching tabs is done by tabbing to the tab (ok then...) and hitting the arrow key...i think
[08:04] <maco> jmarsden: i'm going to bring it up on the gnome usability mailing list
[08:04] <jmarsden> Go for it.  Worth a try.
[08:12] <maco> ok, sent a mail off to them. we'll see
[08:17] <maco> hi thekorn
[08:17] <BUGabundo_work> oh hi maco
[08:18] <maco> hihi
[08:18] <BUGabundo_work> give me just a sec while I *kill* some kdepim dev
[08:18] <BUGabundo_work> and I'll get back to you, to debug sound
[08:18] <thekorn> hi maco, BUGabundo_work
[08:18] <thekorn> hi all :)
[08:18] <BUGabundo_work> hi thekorn
[08:19] <BUGabundo_work> can you guys believe that now, my font size in kmail is UBBER small?
[08:19] <maco> BUGabundo_work: its beyond my knowledge. you need crimsun. he says he doesn't think it's the drivers, but it'd be easiest to debug if he had physical access...which i guess means get someone to bring a laptop to UDS or find someone in the maryland/virginia/dc area with the issue to push him on it haha
[08:19] <BUGabundo_work> I'll have to check what package upgrade changed that
[08:19] <BUGabundo_work> eheh
[08:19] <BUGabundo_work> I'm in Portugal, so I can't make it
[08:19] <Hobbsee> maco: or even just hand out a shell account?
[08:20] <BUGabundo_work> but I'm not the only one on that bug...
[08:20] <maco> Hobbsee: for a sound issue?
[08:20] <BUGabundo_work> eheh sound over ssh
[08:20] <BUGabundo_work> that would be nice
[08:20] <BUGabundo_work> actualy sound would work
[08:20] <Hobbsee> maco: "can hear sound"  "can't hear sound"
[08:20] <BUGabundo_work> but sound debug, aint
[08:20] <Hobbsee> could do.
[08:21] <BUGabundo_work> Hobbsee: last time I was debuging NM with asac like that over pastebin and IRC, I ended up giving him and VPN account on our company server
[08:21] <BUGabundo_work> it was much faster!
[08:21] <maco> he said removing the ~/.pulse *might* only be fixing by re-initializing the mixers rather than it actually being a pulse issue...i'm being very "might" because my memory is crappy
[08:22]  * BUGabundo_work open mutt with lastest updates to check for kdepim/fonts updates
[08:22] <BUGabundo_work> maco removing .pa doesn't solve it
[08:22] <BUGabundo_work> I tried it last night and today I got a muted controls again
[08:22] <maco> oh? for some people removing ~/.pulse after login had the same effect as manually unmuting them all
[08:23] <maco> but they did say they had to redo it after each login because it was always recreated
[08:24]  * BUGabundo_work sees an akonadi update... might be it
[08:24] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: wouldn't surprise me!
[08:25] <BUGabundo_work> HGTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
[08:25] <BUGabundo_work> f@Ck
[08:26] <BUGabundo_work> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/284808
[08:26] <BUGabundo_work> I can't use my laptop like this
[08:26] <BUGabundo_work> writing on it, and it just goes under after 30 min
[08:26] <maco> O_o
[08:32] <BUGabundo_work> who takes a look over GPM??
[08:32] <BUGabundo_work> I need to debug that MF better
[08:33] <BUGabundo_work> maco: do you think that the clicks on gnome-sound-recorder are related to the ones in VLC?
[08:34] <BUGabundo_work> maco https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/295519
[08:35] <bernhard> test
[08:35] <bernhard> wow, no instructions to login to irc on launchpad
[08:36] <bernhard> but i did it somehow
[08:36] <dholbach> bernhard: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
[08:37] <BUGabundo_work> Hobbsee: any idea what's the package that contains gnome-sound-recorder?
[08:37] <bernhard> I couldn't talk here if I wouldn't have succeded in logging in, could I?
[08:38] <bernhard> but my first time in here
[08:39] <Hobbsee> sarah@neptune:~% which gnome-sound-recorder                              7:38PM
[08:39] <Hobbsee> /usr/bin/gnome-sound-recorder
[08:39] <bernhard> how do I switch off the system messages?
[08:39] <Hobbsee> sarah@neptune:~% dpkg -S /usr/bin/gnome-sound-recorder                   7:38PM
[08:39] <Hobbsee> gnome-media: /usr/bin/gnome-sound-recorder
[08:39] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: ^
[08:39] <BUGabundo_work> bernhard: fill free to visit #help and #ubuntu
[08:39] <BUGabundo_work> thanks Hobbsee
[08:39] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: you're welcome
[08:40] <BUGabundo_work> I keep forgeting about using -S
[08:40] <Hobbsee> ;)
[08:40] <BUGabundo_work> I need to make a reminder of that on my useful command file
[08:42] <bernhard> if I connect to #help then I get to #freenode, is that normal?
[08:42] <BUGabundo_work> I guess bernhard
[08:42] <BUGabundo_work> haven't been there in yearssss
[08:43] <BUGabundo_work> I've been using IRC since 1994
[08:43] <BUGabundo_work> maco so that's up to date
[08:43] <bernhard> but if I enter #ubuntu-bugs I get to #ubuntu-bugs
[08:43] <bernhard> I have some questions about irc.ubuntu.com. can I ask them here?
[08:43] <bernhard> or in help?
[08:43] <BUGabundo_work> can you help me triage audacity playback prob?
[08:44] <BUGabundo_work> bernhard: this is and channel for ubuntu bugs support
[08:44] <BUGabundo_work> most probably its not here, where you should be asking
[08:44] <BUGabundo_work> but since you are a noob here, sure fire it way... but only one question!
[08:45] <bernhard> well, how do I even get to #help? As I said, if I connect to #help, then I get to freenode
[08:46] <BUGabundo_work> the irc sintax for opening channels is: /join #CHANNELNAME
[08:46] <BUGabundo_work> maybe #help is an alias for freenode... sometimes IRC Admins do stuff like that
[08:46] <bernhard> i just use the pidgin dialog
[08:47] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: yeah, it would be.
[08:47] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: maybe #linux was what you were thinking of
[08:47] <maco> bernhard: irc.ubuntu.com and irc.freenode.net are the same thing
[08:47] <bernhard> aha, this answers my first question, maco
[08:47] <bernhard> :)
[08:48] <BUGabundo_work> maco why do regular users (withou QA hats) change LP bugs states!! its messs up the workflow
[08:48] <BUGabundo_work> some user just confirmed 296738 on every package!
[08:49] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: because they don't know better, and think that pepole might look at it the quicker they fiddle.
[08:49] <BUGabundo_work> grr
[08:49] <Hobbsee> er, that people might look at it quicker, the more they fiddle
[08:49] <maco> BUGabundo_work: i saw. confirmed is one of those "let's debate whether we need this or not" statuse
[08:49] <BUGabundo_work> will some dev/QA take a look at it, and set the proper state, please
[08:49] <Hobbsee> maco: afaik, they're killing it.
[08:50]  * Hobbsee wonders what the point of introducing triaged was, a year or so ago, to go and kill triaged now, but that's another issue...
[08:50] <Hobbsee> er, s/triaged/confirmed/ for the second
[08:50] <maco> bug 296738
[08:53] <BUGabundo_work> I'm at a mist
[08:53] <BUGabundo_work> not sure if I should file a bug against akonadi so close to the release of a new snapshot
[08:54] <BUGabundo_work> devs won't even read it, due to work load
[08:54] <BUGabundo_work> and it might be fixed upstream
[08:54] <BUGabundo_work> (#kontact is sleeping at this hour)
[08:55] <maco> BUGabundo_work: after you boot and login, are the channels both muted AND set to 0?
[08:55] <Hobbsee> if you do at all, file it upstream
[08:55] <BUGabundo_work> DUH
[08:55] <BUGabundo_work> found it
[08:55] <BUGabundo_work> some how it enabled Fixed Font
[08:55] <maco> BUGabundo_work: crimsun's asking for specifics
[08:55] <BUGabundo_work> maco all but Master and PCM
[08:55] <BUGabundo_work> where is crimsun?
[08:55] <maco> all but master and pcm are set to 0 and muted?
[08:55] <BUGabundo_work> on another #?
[08:56] <BUGabundo_work> yes
[08:56] <maco> he's 5 feet away from me
[08:56] <maco> that's after login, right?
[08:56] <BUGabundo_work> the bug mentions that
[08:56] <BUGabundo_work> after boot
[08:56] <maco> but boot and then login, right?
[08:56] <BUGabundo_work> log out, login doesn't change the sound volume
[08:56] <Hobbsee> maco: say hi to crimsun for me?
[08:56] <BUGabundo_work> if it was manually unmutted it stays like that
[08:57] <BUGabundo_work> maco I can reboot, stop at gdm and check alsamixergui -c 0
[08:57] <maco> if you reboot, go to a TTY, and check alsamixer -c0, what are the mixers doing? and is there sound at gdm?
[08:57] <maco> Hobbsee: kk
[08:57] <BUGabundo_work> I need to test that scenario maco
[08:58] <BUGabundo_work> just a sec
[08:58] <maco> ok
[08:58] <BUGabundo_work> or better yet 30 sec
[08:58] <BUGabundo_work> http://fileland.bugabundo.net/fotos/Linux/bootchart/
[08:58] <maco> he says you can do amixer -c0 instead and pastebin that
[08:58] <maco> so um, do that as amixer -c0 > amixer.out
[08:58] <maco> and then pastebin it once you get into gnome
[08:58] <BUGabundo_work> or pastebinit
[08:58] <maco> so i can read it out loud to him
[08:59]  * BUGabundo_work disables GDM autologin and reboots
[09:00] <BUGabundo_work> [OT] so anyone here believes what Mark said about 15 sec boots?
[09:00] <BUGabundo_work> humm maco that's going to take a bit longger! system got stuck on poweroff... nothing helpful on TTY
[09:01]  * BUGabundo_work does an hard reboot/ powercycle
[09:01] <maco> ah you just reminded me of a bug i need to file and then attempt to fix
[09:01] <BUGabundo_work> when alt+sysrq+REISUB doenst work does it mean the kernel stop answering?
[09:01] <maco> i prefer to do it in the opposite order though, for the sake of getting practice
[09:01] <maco> yes
[09:02]  * BUGabundo_work reachs GDM, switchs to TTY2
[09:03] <BUGabundo_work> all controls are at 0,   other them master
[09:03] <maco> can you send that to a file and pastebin it?
[09:04] <BUGabundo_work> http://paste.ubuntu.com/76726
[09:04]  * BUGabundo_work starts gmd
[09:05] <BUGabundo_work> brb... need to help an user send a big file
[09:05] <maco> BUGabundo_work: on shutdown, where did it hang? did gdm shut down? crimsun says it might be related
[09:06] <BUGabundo_work> maco on the sentece: [insert some seconds here] the system will reboot now
[09:06] <BUGabundo_work> duh
[09:07] <BUGabundo_work> forgot to change alsamixer controls on TTY to see if they would be kept on GDM
[09:08] <maco> are you using gnome, kde, or xfce on that computer?
[09:08] <maco> or did you tell it to reboot from the cli?
[09:09] <mahfouz> test
[09:09] <maco> BUGabundo_work: ^
[09:10] <mahfouz> test
[09:10] <maco> yes, you're here
[09:10] <mahfouz> thx
[09:11] <maco> BUGabundo_work: are you using gnome?
[09:12] <BUGabundo_work> back
[09:12] <BUGabundo_work> maco gnome
[09:13] <BUGabundo_work> I used the FUSA icon
[09:13] <BUGabundo_work> maco I told you I was going out... lol no need to test my nick! but now I'm back... at least until someone else call for me
[09:14] <maco> ah didnt see that
[09:14] <mahfouz> a technical question: where is libgnutls13? It's not in the repos anymore
[09:14] <Hobbsee> has been replaced by libgnutls26
[09:14] <mahfouz> If I try to install liferea from debget.net it asks for libgnutls13
[09:15] <mahfouz> what to do?
[09:15] <Hobbsee> mail getdeb, and ask them to update their packages.  Oh, and don't use getdeb.
[09:15] <mahfouz> why not?
[09:15] <maco> ok, reboot, go to tty, use alsamixer to fix the volume settings. then do "sudo -i" then "PULSE_INTERNAL=0 alsactl store" then login check that it's the same, reboot check that it's the same
[09:15]  * Hobbsee has seen a couple of getdeb'd systems that are broken.
[09:16] <mahfouz> I see, but they have newer packages very often
[09:16] <Hobbsee> which required reinstalls
[09:16] <mahfouz> then I should mail ubuntu and ask them to update some packages: e.g. the geany 0.15, new liferea version etc
[09:16]  * BUGabundo_work rebooting
[09:17] <Hobbsee> !backports
[09:17] <BUGabundo_work> mahfouz: file bugs on Launchpad if the version before freeze is really olde
[09:17] <mahfouz> what is !backports
[09:17] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: for non-development release?
[09:17] <maco> mahfouz: ubottu just told you
[09:17] <BUGabundo_work> other then that, you have to use backports
[09:17] <Hobbsee> mahfouz: the line of text ubottu just wrote
[09:18] <BUGabundo_work> Hobbsee: if there is a package that is not being mantained in MOTU, aint filling a bug on LP the correct procedure?
[09:18] <maco> BUGabundo_work: believe so
[09:18] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: it is.  However, it won't directly solve mahfouz's problem - or at least, won'tfor a few months.
[09:19] <BUGabundo_work> eheh
[09:19] <mahfouz> is backports the same as partner repos?
[09:19] <BUGabundo_work> but that's another prob
[09:19] <maco> no
[09:19] <maco> partner is for closed source stuff that's for-pay, usually
[09:19] <maco> like Parallels
[09:19] <BUGabundo_work> its the "teach them to fish and they won't be hungry anymore" dilema
[09:19] <BUGabundo_work> !repositories
[09:19] <mahfouz> one is archive.ubuntu.com other is archive.canonical.com. they are different?
[09:19] <BUGabundo_work> check this links mahfouz
[09:19] <mahfouz> thx
[09:20] <BUGabundo_work> maco alsamixer done. now to do that other command
[09:21]  * BUGabundo_work logging in 
[09:21] <mahfouz> so is geany 0.15 in the backports? Does anybody know?
[09:21] <BUGabundo_work> http://packages.ubuntu.com/
[09:21] <BUGabundo_work> check for your self
[09:21] <BUGabundo_work> or at Launchpad
[09:21] <mahfouz> aha
[09:22] <maco> geany 0.15 is not packaged yet
[09:22] <maco> even jaunty is still 0.14
[09:22] <maco> it's not in debian sid yet
[09:22] <maco> must be VERY new
[09:22] <BUGabundo_work> LOL
[09:22] <BUGabundo_work> maco humm stupid result
[09:22] <maco> it is in experimental...
[09:23] <BUGabundo_work> the controls I change are set
[09:23] <mahfouz> geany 0.15 is packaged in getdeb.net
[09:23] <maco> BUGabundo_work: explain?
[09:23] <BUGabundo_work> BUT... still muted
[09:23] <maco> BUGabundo_work: and after reboot? oh you forgot to hit M to unmute?
[09:23] <BUGabundo_work> did I forget to unmute them on alsamixer?
[09:23] <BUGabundo_work> maybe
[09:23] <mahfouz> I apt downloaded geany 0.15 from getdeb
[09:23] <maco> ok well reboot and see if the volume controls you set are kept this time
[09:23] <BUGabundo_work> yeah I forgot to unmute
[09:23] <BUGabundo_work> but at least it did change
[09:23] <BUGabundo_work> rebooting again
[09:25] <mahfouz> geany should get more attention: more powerful than gedit and just as fast
[09:25]  * BUGabundo_work thinks  he is lucky to have two machines to help debug
[09:25] <BUGabundo_work> never heard of it until now mahfouz
[09:25] <BUGabundo_work> gedit does the job great
[09:26] <BUGabundo_work> maco: looking at alsamixer everything back to 0
[09:26] <BUGabundo_work> except master and PCM
[09:26] <mahfouz> hope you will hear more of it in the future :)
[09:26] <BUGabundo_work> mahfouz: official site link?
[09:27] <mahfouz> btw, are the backports you are talking about the same as "Unsupported updates (intrepid backports)" in system sources?
[09:27] <mahfouz> geany.org
[09:28] <mahfouz> if you only do text files, gedit is fine of course, but if you like something between gedit and emacs for coding, then geany is great
[09:28] <BUGabundo_work> mahfouz: did you read the links I gave you ?
[09:28] <maco> BUGabundo_work: repeat the new settings, sudo -i, store routine, then do amixer -c0 and check that they're listed as what you set
[09:28] <maco> mahfouz: yes, same thing
[09:28] <mahfouz> aha, thx
[09:30] <BUGabundo_work> slower maco
[09:30] <BUGabundo_work> sudo -i, and now what?
[09:30] <maco> BUGabundo_work: have you modified the init.d/alsa-utils script at all?
[09:30] <mahfouz> yes, Bugabundo, but I think i can just enable the backports by checking the appropr box in synaptic
[09:30] <BUGabundo_work> not that I rembember
[09:30] <mahfouz> that's the easiest
[09:30] <maco> BUGabundo_work: nevermind, you did that same test by logging into gdm before
[09:31] <BUGabundo_work> sorry maco?
[09:31] <mahfouz> Bugabundo, can we call you bug?
[09:31] <mahfouz> your nick is too longs
[09:31] <BUGabundo_work> use TAB for autocomplete mahfouz
[09:32] <maco> BUGabundo_work: uh, ok so to see if you've changed that file at all, can you install debsums, then run "debsums -c alsa-utils"?
[09:32] <mahfouz> BUGabundo_work: wow great
[09:32] <BUGabundo_work> it would be very bad to call me 'bug' on a bug channel
[09:32] <BUGabundo_work> plus I would not get a ping on my nick
[09:32] <mahfouz> you are right BUGabundo_work it works tab works for BUGabundo_work, BUGabundo_work
[09:32] <maco> BUGabundo_work: if it gives no output, you have the default file
[09:32] <mahfouz> lol
[09:32] <BUGabundo_work> stop it mahfouz
[09:32] <mahfouz> just testing
[09:32] <BUGabundo_work> there are people here working
[09:33] <mahfouz> I'm also working my way into irc
[09:33]  * BUGabundo_work installing debsums
[09:33] <BUGabundo_work> use #help for that mahfouz
[09:33] <mahfouz> i am in #help
[09:33] <mahfouz> I was forwarded
[09:34] <BUGabundo_work> I wonder why
[09:34] <mahfouz> dunno
[09:34] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo_work: because they forwarded it ages ago
[09:34] <BUGabundo_work> because you won't shut up?
[09:34] <mahfouz> anyway, I'll play around a little bit with the backports, thx for your help
[09:34] <BUGabundo_work> maco no output
[09:35] <maco> doh, debsums doesn't recognize that file
[09:35] <maco> hrm how do we see if it's been changed...
[09:36] <BUGabundo_work> remove it . purge it, install again?
[09:36] <maco> that could work...no idea what other stuff it might try to remove in the process though
[09:37] <BUGabundo_work> I'll just check the list of removed files later
[09:37] <BUGabundo_work> plus I have bzr of /etc
[09:37] <BUGabundo_work> so do I remove alsa utils?
[09:38]  * BUGabundo_work has his finger right on Enter
[09:39] <BUGabundo_work> maco ping
[09:40] <maco> sure, you can try purging it and just ya know, if it wants to remove everything, you can stop
[09:40] <maco> or you can make a list to reinstall afterward...
[09:40] <maco> since youll be reinstalling it after the purge
[09:41] <BUGabundo_work> humm removing also fusa gdm, gdm-guest-session and gdm themes
[09:41] <BUGabundo_work> who would thought gdm depeded on alsa
[09:41] <maco> login sounds?
[09:41] <maco> *shrug*
[09:41] <maco> if you want to just reinstall those after the experiment, you can
[09:43] <maco> i assume the jaunty system isnt a production system
[09:43] <BUGabundo_work> "unable to contact DBus session: org.freedesktop.org.DBus.Error.Spawn.ExecFailed: dbus-launch failed to autolaunch D-Bus session: Autolaunch error: X11 initialization failed"!
[09:43] <BUGabundo_work> humm its not a production system
[09:43] <BUGabundo_work> but it is my laptop
[09:44] <BUGabundo_work> the one I use to read all my email
[09:44]  * BUGabundo_work installing back removed packages
[09:44] <maco> did you purge already?
[09:44] <maco> or only remove?
[09:44] <maco> because those'll bring it back
[09:44] <BUGabundo_work> purge
[09:44] <maco> so you want to purge before reinstalling them
[09:44] <maco> ok
[09:46] <BUGabundo_work> woot /etc bzr 100th commit lol
[09:46] <maco> and then reboot again and see if the "clean" alsa-utils script makes a difference
[09:46] <BUGabundo_work> rebooting
[09:46] <maco> kk
[09:47] <mahfouz> can i bring attention to another bug?
[09:47] <mahfouz> which is pretty serious imho
[09:47] <mahfouz> about emerald-theme-manager
[09:48] <mahfouz> it's totally unstable, crashes after a few operations with 100% CPU
[09:48] <mahfouz> did anybody else experience this
[09:48] <BUGabundo_work> maco alsamixer -c 0 still show all controls muted
[09:49] <maco> and volumes are all 0?
[09:49] <BUGabundo_work> yep
[09:49] <maco> mahfouz: which is why upstream doesn't support it anymore
[09:49] <BUGabundo_work> with the exception of master and pcm
[09:49] <mahfouz> aha, so is there a replacement for emerald?
[09:49] <BUGabundo_work> any more ideas?
[09:49] <maco> mahfouz: uh, use gtk-window-decorator or kde-window-decorator
[09:50] <maco> we tried to get rid of emerald because it's totally dead upstream
[09:50] <mahfouz> gtk, I'm on gnome
[09:50] <maco> users started a revolution :P
[09:50] <mahfouz> no jokes, BUGabundo_work doesnt like them :)
[09:50] <maco> upstream says they may write a replacement that isn't total spaghetti code someday, but for now, use the decorators that can use metacity and kwin themes
[09:51] <mahfouz> what about beryl?
[09:51] <maco> dead for a year
[09:51] <maco> it merged back with compiz at least a year ago
[09:51] <mahfouz> aha, but can i use kwin on gnome? I thought this was for kde
[09:51] <mahfouz> kde4
[09:51] <BUGabundo_work> replaced with compiz fusion
[09:51] <maco> yeah it is for kde
[09:51] <maco> so metacity or kwin, for respectively gnome and kde
[09:51] <mahfouz> aha
[09:51] <maco> if you use gnome, use metacity themes with gtk-window-decorator and compiz
[09:52] <mahfouz> i was wondering why nobody is interested in the emerald-theme-manager problem, there is still so many people running emerlad
[09:52] <BUGabundo_work> maco will u, or do you wish me to update the bug with all this tests?
[09:52] <mahfouz> emerald
[09:53] <maco> BUGabundo_work: i was typing it up already
[09:54] <BUGabundo_work> okay
[09:54] <maco> mahfouz: i think we're hoping people realize that "no longer being developed" + freakishly unstable means they should give up
[09:54] <mahfouz> but what about compiz? will it remain the default wm for ubuntu in the future?
[09:54] <maco> at least, that's what i'm hoping
[09:54] <BUGabundo_work> now to report kdepim bug
[09:54] <maco> yes, but compiz uses metacity and kwin themes and has for...umm...ever
[09:55] <mahfouz> hmm, I'm confused, I thought I have to choose between metacity and compiz
[09:55] <maco> emerald was part of beryl back when it existed, and then beryl went away, emerald stopped being developed, and frankly, i dont think its very compatible with current compiz because it seems less stable now than it was with beryl
[09:55] <maco> you can use metacity *themes* in compiz
[09:55] <mahfouz> I thought  metacity and compiz contradict each other
[09:55] <mahfouz> aha
[09:56] <mahfouz> So i can use the metacity themes from gnome-look in compiz
[09:56] <maco> yep
[09:56] <maco> that's what compiz defaults to doing
[09:56] <mahfouz> aha, i didnt know that
[09:56] <maco> note we don't install emerald by default but compiz works just fine and has decorations by default
[09:56] <maco> that's the point of gtk-window-manager
[09:56] <maco> er
[09:56] <BUGabundo_work> its funny to read fusionicon
[09:56] <maco> gtk-window-decorator
[09:57] <BUGabundo_work> it shows: Compiz, Metacity, kwin
[09:57] <BUGabundo_work> it used to show emerald
[09:57] <maco> emerald wouldve been in decorator, not manager, though
[09:57] <BUGabundo_work> but aint metacity the decorator too?
[09:58] <maco> metacity is a window manager with a built-in decorator that has no separate name
[09:58] <maco> compiz is more modular
[09:59] <BUGabundo_work> ahh
[09:59] <maco> it's the window manager, and then it can use a few different decorators (emerald, gtk-window-decorator, kde-window-decorator)
[09:59] <BUGabundo_work> and then we wonder why noobs ask what is the diference between GDM , metacity, nautilus....
[09:59] <BUGabundo_work> lol
[10:00] <BUGabundo_work> MSFT at least uses only one... ROFL Explorer
[10:00] <maco> yeah, i think i need to type up a blog post while i'm on the train home on wednesday
[10:00] <maco> i was going to make a linux glossary at one point...
[10:00] <BUGabundo_work> hehehe
[10:03] <BUGabundo_work> brb
[10:03]  * BUGabundo_work asks maco to start opening his copy of audacity
[10:04] <maco> BUGabundo_work: that hang on shutdown thing....that happen often or was that a fluke?
[10:08] <bernhard> ok, i killed myself by trying to switch wm's, guess you noticed my absence
[10:14] <maco> BUGabundo_work: ok i just thought of another test (crimsun's asleep) to see if alsactl restore is working.  assuming i understand this right, you should be able to change things in alsamixer, do that PULSE_INTERNAL... thing, look at /var/lib/alsa/asound.state and confirm that the settings are saved (reading through, should be fairly obvious if the volumes you set were kept)
[10:14] <maco> er, to see if store is working
[10:14] <maco> you could also pastebin that file if you want me to check it
[10:15] <maco> then, i think, the PULSE_INTERNAL... thing but with "restore" instead of "store" followed by checking the mixer should tell you if restore read the asound.state file properly
[10:16] <maco> so that should test both writing the file and reading it
[10:18] <maco> macd_: oh oh, ready to be accidentally pinged? :P
[10:19] <bernhard> if i may ask again: it seems you install the metacity themes the same way you would install a gtk theme. So what's the difference?
[10:19] <maco> gtk themes control colors and such on buttons and test and background of windows
[10:20] <maco> metacity controls the window borders
[10:20] <bernhard> aha
[10:20] <maco> s/test/text/
[10:20] <bernhard> btw, I just posted a bug on gtk themes recently: if I delete them in gnome-appearence, then there is still something in /.themes
[10:20] <bernhard> which can cause problems
[10:20] <bernhard> if I reinstall for example
[10:21] <maco> thats an interesting one because youd want it to remove them if in ~/.themes but not if in /usr/share/themes/ or wherever it is, since other users might want to use the theme
[10:22] <bernhard> I once had a problem with reinstalling a theme because the old folder was still there and it clashed with the new one
[10:22] <maco> it should just overwrite...
[10:23] <bernhard> I always have to delete .themes/theme-xyz manually
[10:23] <bernhard> that's no good
[10:27] <BUGabundo_work> back
[10:28] <maco> BUGabundo_work: rehi
[10:28] <maco> can you try that stuff?
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work> uff
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work> let me breath 1st
[10:29] <maco> haha
[10:30] <BUGabundo_work> ok
[10:30] <BUGabundo_work> I'm on my Desktop
[10:30] <BUGabundo_work> can I do those changes here?
[10:30] <BUGabundo_work> or do I need to reboot and go to TTYs
[10:30] <BUGabundo_work> ?
[10:30] <maco> desktop's fine
[10:31] <maco> i think, by using alsactl in that way, you're mimicking what happens during shutdown and boot...except for the driver unload/reload part. which i dont *think* has an impact
[10:35] <BUGabundo_work> ok
[10:36] <BUGabundo_work> so now what?
[10:36] <BUGabundo_work> step by step
[10:36] <BUGabundo_work> or do you want to use help-assisnt?
[10:36] <BUGabundo_work> https://launchpad.net/remote-help-assistant
[10:39] <BUGabundo_work> maco ping
[10:40] <maco> im looking at that
[10:41] <maco> never seen it before
[10:41] <maco> guess we could try it
[10:43] <maco> an SSH connection would also work
[10:44] <maco> BUGabundo_work: ?
[10:49] <BUGabundo_work> humm
[10:49] <maco> hi
[10:49] <BUGabundo_work> but with RHA I can see you at work
[10:50] <maco> ok
[10:50] <BUGabundo_work> and I can't fire another hole on the entreprise network
[10:50] <maco> haha
[10:50] <maco> ok...well can RHA get out?
[10:50] <BUGabundo_work> lets try it
[10:50] <BUGabundo_work> I've been waiting for a chance to use it for months
[10:50] <maco> oh i need to forward a port
[10:50] <BUGabundo_work> do you ?
[10:50] <maco> um, do you know which port?
[10:50] <maco> yes
[10:51] <BUGabundo_work> I thought it would be P-2-S-2-p
[10:51] <maco> because you'll be setting up a reverse tunnel, essentially
[10:51] <maco> like it'll go out of your network (outbound usually not blocked after all) and then coming to me for me to look into the VNC
[10:51] <BUGabundo_work> ok
[10:51] <maco> i'm NATed, and the page you linked says so
[10:52] <maco> i need to figure out what port to forward
[10:52] <BUGabundo_work> humm let me see if I can punch a hole on a REALLY HI port
[10:52] <BUGabundo_work> without needing to restart router or ISA server
[10:53] <BUGabundo_work> I hope it allows us to choose the port on the receiver side
[10:53] <maco> yeah
[10:54] <BUGabundo_work> 65001       65534 are port fw to my laptop
[10:55] <BUGabundo_work> need your IP
[10:55] <maco> looking...
[10:56] <BUGabundo_work> sorry... dint meant to keep you awake so late
[10:57] <maco> BUGabundo_work: pm
[10:57] <maco> heh yeah its almost 6 am here
[10:58] <BUGabundo_work> sorry about that!
[10:58] <BUGabundo_work> ROFL
[10:58] <BUGabundo_work> it crashed!
[10:58] <BUGabundo_work> LOL
[10:58] <BUGabundo_work> generated a error log
[10:58] <BUGabundo_work> so I guess that's not our best option
[10:58] <BUGabundo_work> I'll change vinagre to listen on those ports
[10:59] <BUGabundo_work> I should have thought of that 1st
[10:59] <maco> uh, i dont know what port to forward on my end though
[11:00] <BUGabundo_work> never mind that
[11:00] <BUGabundo_work> I punched an hole on the router fw
[11:00] <BUGabundo_work> change MY vinagre to user 65005
[11:00] <maco> yeah, but i'm NATed too so it matters on my end as well, i think
[14:15] <bernhard1> hey guys, I registered a nick today and now it's taken by somebody else, how can it happen?
[14:16] <bernhard1> do i have to register another one?
[14:17] <BUGabundo_work> bernhard1: is that refering to IRC?
[14:17] <bernhard1> yes
[14:18] <bernhard1> I registered mahfouz, even got a confirming email and now it wouldnt let me log in because there is another person with that nick
[14:18] <BUGabundo_work> IT YOU dude
[14:18] <bernhard1> no!
[14:18] <BUGabundo_work> and ask that on #help... NOT HERE
[14:18] <BUGabundo_work> just use gost
[14:18] <bernhard1> this is #help
[14:19] <bernhard1> it's really a different user
[14:19] <bernhard1> I know that you dont want to help me BUGabundo_work but maybe somebody else can
[14:19] <bernhard1> this is the #help channel and i was forwarded
[14:19] <bernhard1> ok?
[14:19] <BUGabundo_work> no it is not
[14:19] <hacktick> :)
[14:19] <bernhard1> well, then there is no help channel
[14:20] <bernhard1> I tried #help and was forwarded
[14:20] <bernhard1> On launchpad.net they say that there are SO many helpful people here on #ubuntu-bugs and all I get is BUGabundo_work
[14:20] <bernhard1> sorry dude, but I'm only looking for help
[14:20] <BUGabundo_work> ehehe
[14:20] <BUGabundo_work> because I'm the only one that still replies to you
[14:20] <BUGabundo_work> stop nagging people here
[14:21] <BUGabundo_work> go here you are meant to be
[14:21] <BUGabundo_work> ok?
[14:21] <BUGabundo_work> bye
[14:21] <bernhard1> I am meant to be where?
[14:21] <hacktick> bernhard1: I am redirected tp #freenode after typing /j #help
[14:21] <hacktick> *to
[14:21] <bernhard1> see? other people share my experience
[14:21] <hacktick> BUGabundo_work: I think you could be a bit more friendly.
[14:23] <bernhard1> I really had a funny experience today, no aliens or something but duplicity of irc accounts: I registered my name and now I cannot login because somebody else has this nick already. How can it happen
[14:23] <james_w> bernhard1: did you ask your question in #freenode?
[14:23] <james_w> they will be far more expert at IRC than the average in here
[14:23] <bernhard1> OK, I'll try freenode
[14:43] <MAINERROR> does it work now?
[15:04] <BUGabundo_work> hacktick: I know! I try to be helpful but when you say the same thing 4/5/6 times
[15:04] <BUGabundo_work> and the other person doenst listen, it sucks
[15:05] <mahfouz> I listened, but there was not much coherent stuff coming from you, lol
[15:05] <BUGabundo_work> besides I tried it on my side and I could be enter #help/#freenode just fine
[15:05]  * BUGabundo_work puts mahfouz on the ignore list LOL
[15:05] <mahfouz> haha
[15:06] <BUGabundo_work> now that's funny
[15:06] <bddebian> Boo
[15:06] <BUGabundo_work> I can't scare me everyday bddebian
[15:07] <bddebian> :)
[15:15] <hacktick> BUGabundo_work: to put in portuguese: as vezes é melhor calar a boca.
[15:16] <BUGabundo_work> e as vezes é preciso as pessoas abrirem os olhos e perceberem o q estao a fazel mal
[15:16] <hacktick> BUGabundo_work: the name of this channel contains the word ubuntu.
[15:17] <hacktick> you dont have to be rude to open their eyes.
[15:17] <BUGabundo_work> lets move along! I guess mahfouz learned something today
[15:18] <BUGabundo_work> I'm sorry
[15:18] <BUGabundo_work> I ddint meant to be rude
[15:18] <BUGabundo_work> I tried to help him
[15:18] <hacktick> BUGabundo_work: maybe you could learn something today, too :)
[15:18] <BUGabundo_work> he kept hiting the same key
[15:18] <BUGabundo_work> I was going death
[15:18] <BUGabundo_work> every body learns something every day
[15:36] <BUGabundo_work> is bug-buddy working fine?
[15:36] <BUGabundo_work> using bug-buddy --package PACKAGE pops up a message saying it doesnt know where to send a bug !
[18:08] <SyL> can anybody else here install the "isns" to install package?
[18:08] <SyL> I'm trying to make sure it is a bug is all
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> i can't try at the moment, as I'm doing some upgrades. is there a bug number?
[18:11] <bdmurray> SyL: something like bug 245898
[18:11] <SyL> checking
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> isns - i think i can see the problem with isns already
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> the "restart" will fail if isns was not already running, because "--oknodo" is not passed to start-stop-daemon in the init script
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> i think
[18:16] <SyL> well, debian lenny uses the same thing, but they aren't friendly...
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> that was directed at SyL (not isns, which is the name of the source package)
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> i'll try and reproduce it in a second
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> reproduced
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> SyL - would you mind forwarding to debian? I can then finish the triage for you if you like
[18:19] <SyL> sure... I'm guessing it's from their repo?
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the package comes from debian. the error is with the init script, which debian is the upstream provider of
[18:21] <chrisccoulson> basically, "restart" and "stop" will always fail if isnsd was not already running. "start" will always fail if isnsd is already running
[18:21] <SyL> chrisccoulson: ok, 2nd question, is there a quick easy fix for me in the mean time?
[18:21] <SyL> ah
[18:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah, to stop the error from your package manager, run "sudo invoke-rc.d isns start" and then "sudo dpkg --configure isns". this will allow the package install to complete successfully
[18:22] <SyL> is that for anything that has a service starting?
[18:23] <chrisccoulson> anything that installs a init script in /etc/init.d
[18:23] <SyL> whoa...
[18:23] <SyL> you just saved me like a week and a half of work!
[18:23] <SyL> thank you!
[18:23] <chrisccoulson> np
[18:30] <SyL> chrisccoulson: weird... same error
[18:30] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, should work.
[18:34] <SyL> hrm... in the init.d/isns file there is a whole line for start and stop instead of just using the start and stop there
[18:51] <SyL> got it...
[18:52] <SyL> chrisccoulson: thanks again! http://highbridnation.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/motivational-posters-funny-082.jpg
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> is anyone here having difficulty accessing a console in jaunty? ctrl+alt+f1 just gives a garbled screen
[20:45] <joumetal> not me. does it also happen without usplash?
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> it doesn't happen without usplash. i ask because i'm triaging a bug with the same problem
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> i'm just not sure which package to assign it too
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> usplash hasn't been update in jaunty yet, so it must be something else
[21:01] <joumetal> it's also hard to choose package to bug 295203
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> not sure
[21:05] <bdmurray> it would have been nice if the original reporter had some references
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> you should ask them how they installed it i think (live CD / alternate CD?). then ask them to attach their fstab (from the fresh install), as well as the output of blkid and vol_id for the swap partition
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> bdmurray - yes, it would be nice if people used references. i came across another bug this evening where the reporter claims people are experiencing (and discussing) it on the forums, but didn't provide a link and i can't find any such thread
[21:15] <bdmurray> perhaps its somehow related to bug 66637
[22:23] <bdmurray> jibel: regarding bug 294134 is there an sru for Intrepid for it?
[22:42] <jibel> bdmurray: no there isn't. I don't know why this regex was added in hardy and I wanted to talk with mvo about it.
[22:46] <bdmurray> jibel: okay it seems like something that might be worth fixing.  By the way it looks like you've been doing lots of work on update-manager's new bug count!  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/complete-graphs/update-manager/plots/update-manager-3month-new.png
[22:57] <jibel> bdmurray: just some housecleaning. Many fixed items, duplicates, wishlist reports, ...
[22:57] <jibel> With so much noise it's hard to focus on real issues.
[22:59] <bdmurray> Yes, thanks for helping to clean house!  Have you learned anything that could go on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUpdateManager?
[23:12] <jibel> yes, the non-bug part could be improved with informations about more general upgrade problems : corrupted archive, broken indexes, ... I haven't found resources about it on the wiki
[23:13] <jibel> and maybe a few words about assigning to right package because update-manager is a catch all package.
[23:16] <jibel> it's late here. See you tomorrow
[23:37] <uriahheep> ello