[06:53] <maco> on the TODO page, what's green and what's orange?
[06:55] <Hobbsee> green == done, orange == in progress, maybe?  or orange == todo?
[06:57] <maco> ok
[06:57] <maco> and is that page for packaging updates?
[06:58] <maco> its not quite self-explanatory, i guess
[07:05] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure
[07:05] <Hobbsee> i'd guess so, from last time is aw it
[09:28] <seb128> pochu: hi
[09:33] <pochu> hey seb128 :)
[09:33] <seb128> pochu: hello
[09:33] <pochu> how are you?
[09:34] <seb128> pochu: any reason you are adding binaries to vinagre?
[09:34] <seb128> pochu: good, thank you, how are you?
[09:34] <pochu> seb128: fine, thanks :) busy as usual with uni though ;)
[09:34] <pochu> seb128: yeah, vinagre .deb is now 2MB+, which in Debian means 20MB+
[09:34] <pochu> for all archs
[09:35] <pochu> and since almost all of it is the help documentation, I've split it
[09:35] <seb128> hum, k, I really dislike this oversplitting in debian
[09:36] <pochu> I'd prefer not to do it, but it's going from more than 20MB in the mirrors to just a few...
[09:36] <seb128> it adds entries to the apt indexes, makes those slower to download, the packages list less nice to browse, create bugs, etc
[09:36] <seb128> disk space is cheap nowadays ;-)
[09:37] <seb128> you should stop adding -dbg variants everywhere if you care about mirror use
[09:38] <pochu> hmm
[09:38] <seb128> really, that's not a coherent way to do things
[09:39] <pochu> I guess if I had to choose between having dbg packages and -common packages, and having none of them, I'd choose the former...
[09:39] <pochu> until Debian has dbgsym packages or something like that
[09:39] <seb128> what about working on having -dbgsym in debian rather than adding -dbg everywhere
[09:39] <seb128> that would not polute the apt index, not use mirror space, etc
[09:40] <pochu> that would be nice, yeah
[09:41] <seb128> in one side nobody cares to spend gigabytes of mirror space to add -dbg
[09:41] <seb128> but on the other side you they split binaries to win some space
[09:41] <seb128> which means you get the mirror use and the apt index pollution for almost no win
[09:42] <seb128> it's not specific against you
[09:42] <seb128> but I don't think that oversplitting makes sense
[09:43] <seb128> if mirror space is really an issue, which I'm not convinced that such small changes are worth the work really
[09:44] <seb128> the arch all,any difference creates installability issues on some arches, make the list of packages harder to browser, slow the apt-get update run, create bugs, etc
[09:46] <seb128> hum, makes me think about something
[09:46] <seb128> pitti: hello!
[09:46] <seb128> pitti: do you think we should discuss filtering the -dbg out since ubuntu is using the -dbgsym variants?
[09:46] <seb128> mvo: or might rather something for you ;-)
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: bonjour
[10:46] <seb128> hey pitti
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: in fact we did that already, and there's a spec for it already
[10:49] <seb128> pitti: ok, good
[10:50] <seb128> pitti: did you get the private directory mount filtering change upstream btw? they rolled a new version and I didn't notice that in the changelog, that the only difference we have over debian
[10:51] <pitti> seb128: no, I didn't get any comment to the upstream bug yet :(
[10:51] <seb128> hum, ok
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/debug-package-removal
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: it was tiny, did it cause trouble during upgrade?
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: any other suggestions what I should do about it? ping someone in IRC?
[10:52] <seb128> pitti: no, it's just the difference between a merge and a sync ;-)
[10:53] <pitti> oh, that is a difficulty
[10:53] <seb128> pitti: I'll ping davidz when he's around
[10:53] <pitti> seb128: I can file it to Debian, too
[10:53] <seb128> pitti: don't bother, I don't think it'll disagree on getting that upstream, they just need a little nudge
[10:54] <pitti> ecryptfs-utils is in Debian, too
[10:54] <seb128> s/it'll/they'll
[10:54] <pitti> seb128: I suppose we sync/merge from experimental?
[10:54] <seb128> correct
[10:54] <pitti> seb128: yeah, it's pretty straightforward, and they ignore other fs too
[11:59] <mvo> seb128: hello! filtering it out in what way? remove them during upgrade?
[12:00] <mvo> seb128: aha, nevermind, I just read the backlog (and remembered the spec)
[12:07] <seb128> mvo: I guess that's not so much of an issue for gui users, ie gnome-app-install lists desktop applications rather but still would be nice to not have the confusion and faster apt-get update
[14:40] <mvo> seb128: hello! I requested some syncs on stuff that has your name on the merge list (intltool, libglade2) - just fyi
[14:40] <mvo> (and to avoid duplication of work)
[14:43] <seb128> mvo: alright, thanks
[14:46] <seb128> I should upgrade to jaunty
[16:00] <seb128> pitti: hey ;-)
[16:00] <pitti> asac, ArneGoetje, bryce, seb128: meeting o'clock
[16:00] <seb128> hey mpt rickspencer3
[16:00] <pitti> rickspencer3!
[16:00]  * pedro_ waves
[16:00] <rickspencer3> hi
[16:00] <pitti> rickspencer3: welcome to the craz^Wgreat Ubuntu world!
[16:00] <asac> hi
[16:00] <seb128> hey pedro_
[16:01] <rickspencer3> thanks
[16:01] <asac> pitti: oh ... I have a call in 30 minutes
[16:01] <pitti> asac: np
[16:01] <ArneGoetje> hi
[16:01] <mpt> hi seb128
[16:01] <pitti> Riddell, calc, and Keybuk are on holiday, so small team today
[16:01] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-11-25
[16:02] <pitti> ^ activity reports
[16:02] <seb128> pitti: you are on holidays too according to the canonical website ;-)
[16:02] <pitti> nobody sent in topics, so this will be quick
[16:02] <pitti> @all: yes, the canonical thingy shows me on holiday, because I screwed up and requested holidays from 2008-12-18 to 2008-10-19
[16:02] <pitti> spot the error :)
[16:02] <pitti> two months negative holiday
[16:02] <pitti> aaanyway
[16:03] <seb128> I spot the bug in the software ;-)
[16:03] <asac> haha
[16:03] <pitti> Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:03] <pitti> Martin to talk to beuno to put the desktop team meeting at the fridge
[16:03] <asac> pitti: thats a good trick for a long-term leave i guess
[16:03] <pitti> -> done
[16:03] <pitti> your evolutions should all display the correct time now
[16:03] <pitti> - Everyone to register their specs and propose for "uds-jaunty" by the end of the week
[16:03] <pitti> I saw quite a lot going past, and I did my best to fit them into the schedule
[16:04] <pitti> so the desktop track is 100% filled now
[16:04] <asac> oh
[16:04] <pitti> did anyone register a spec which hasn't been accepted for UDS yet?
[16:04] <pitti> we have some breakout rooms, if we need
[16:04] <pitti> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/desktop/
[16:05] <pitti> I'm not sure whether you are able to see this already, since it's still preliminary
[16:05] <pitti> so, any last-minute additions from anyone?
[16:05] <seb128> not from me
[16:07]  * pitti takes that as "no" and chalks off the point
[16:07] <pitti> so, next topic
[16:07] <pitti> let's all give rickspencer3 a big hug
[16:07] <pitti> he will be our new boss from December on
[16:07] <pitti> which means he'll take the plunge right into the DX sprint and UDS
[16:07] <rickspencer3> can't wait
[16:08] <pitti> rickspencer3: already excited? :-)
[16:08] <asac> welcome!
[16:08] <seb128> rickspencer3: welcome on board ;-)
[16:08] <ArneGoetje> welcome!
[16:08] <pedro_> welcome rickspencer3!
[16:08] <rickspencer3> thanks, looking forward to meeting everyone
[16:08] <rickspencer3> next week?
[16:09] <pitti> we planned some one-to-one introduction sessions on Friday during fosscamp
[16:09] <pitti> some of you aren't there yet, for those we can do that on Sunday or Monday
[16:09] <asac> i will arrive on Sat evening
[16:09] <pitti> and we'll have a team dinner on Monday probably
[16:09] <asac> i think bryce will arrive on Sunday (not sure when) ... so Monday would fit better i guess
[16:09] <pitti> asac: yeah, that shouldn't be a problem at all
[16:10] <pitti> so, we'll see each other in a week, and nobody sent in any topics, so let's make this meeting quick
[16:10] <seb128> pitti: will we have an IRC meeting next week since you guys are already travelling?
[16:10] <pitti> let's skip the meeting next week
[16:11] <pitti> if there are urgent questions about UDS -> ping me on IRC or mail
[16:11] <seb128> ok good
[16:11] <pitti> my primary concern for this and the remainder of the next week is to finish the intrepid cleanup
[16:11] <ArneGoetje> ok
[16:11] <pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-updates still has a couple of open issues
[16:12] <pitti> most of them for asac, though
[16:12] <pitti> (enjoyed your holidays? :-)
[16:12] <seb128> right, me too, cleaning the pending desktop sru this week would be nice
[16:12] <seb128> I want to switch my laptop to jaunty next week
[16:12] <pitti> asac: anything we can do to help you finish that this week? testing patches, or debugging something?
[16:12] <asac> hard to say.
[16:12] <bryce> morning
[16:13] <pitti> hey bryce
[16:13] <asac> i will finish those issue for which i have fixes for sure
[16:13] <asac> but there are other issues that have been fixed in upstream tree ... but with huge patches
[16:13] <pitti> seb128: I don't see any which are explicitly assigned to -desktop, can you please walk over the unassigned ones there and assign the ones yuou think are GNOMEish?
[16:13] <pitti> asac: I understand that there are quite a bunch of bugs which already have patches
[16:13] <seb128> looking
[16:13] <asac> so after this round i will see if its possible to SRU the final 0.7 release (which hopefully happens)
[16:14] <pitti> asac: maybe upload them now, and we'll defer the more tricky ones to a followup SRU?
[16:14] <asac> pitti: yes. thats the plan.
[16:14] <pitti> then we can do some intense testing, as long as many of us are still acutally using intrepid
[16:14] <asac> yep
[16:15] <pitti> after UDS, we'll have our head and computers full of jackalopes, I suppose :)
[16:15] <seb128> pitti: nothing really GNOMish in this list
[16:16] <mpt> ~And visions of jackalopes danced in their heads~
[16:16] <pitti> seb128: only bug 204770 still seems to be open for you
[16:16] <pitti> mpt: in my wildest dreams!
[16:16] <kwwii> I think this name was picked to put an end to the mascot-on-the-wallpaper idea
[16:16] <seb128> right
[16:17] <pitti> kwwii: you mean we won't get a real photo this time?
[16:17] <pitti> seb128: is that still the triggers-tracker bug?
[16:17] <kwwii> pitti: I might need to take a few weeks off to find one in the wild west..I'll ask mark for permission :p
[16:17] <seb128> pitti: I think so, it's fixed again in jaunty now, the change is trivial, will get it uploaded to intrepid too
[16:18] <pitti> kwwii: do one of the Yeti, too, for Ubuntu 14.10 (or so)
[16:19] <kwwii> lol, right
[16:19] <pitti> next topic: merges
[16:19] <pitti> we are pretty good, down to 69
[16:19] <pitti> but there are still a couple which belong to our team
[16:19] <pitti> http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
[16:19] <pitti> please have a look and try to get them done by UDS
[16:20] <seb128> that list is somewhat wrong though
[16:20] <pitti> asac: I can steal your's, since you'll have your heads full of NM SRU, I think; ok?
[16:20] <seb128> now that debian is frozen there is lot of things which are uploaded to experimental
[16:20] <seb128> but they are not listed there
[16:20] <asac> pitti: whats left? ifupdown? and?
[16:20] <seb128> ie, all the GNOME updates
[16:21]  * asac opens merge page
[16:21] <asac> pitti: thanks ... go ahead ;)
[16:21] <pitti> asac: igerman98; should be trivial, will do that
[16:21] <asac> pitti: yes. you can leave ifupdown to me
[16:21] <pitti> asac: shall I do ifupdown, too, or do you want to add magic NM sauce over it?
[16:22] <pitti> alright
[16:22] <pitti> ArneGoetje: are you fine with your three remaining ones?
[16:22] <ArneGoetje> pitti: I think so. will do them tomorrow
[16:22] <pitti> okay, great
[16:22] <pitti> AOB?
[16:23] <seb128> thanks pitti
[16:23] <asac> anyone would volunteer to learn a bit about mozilla?
[16:23] <asac> packaging and procedures?
[16:23] <seb128> asac: why?
[16:23] <asac> i was on vacation and wasnt really either because i appear to be the only one being able to do security updates
[16:24] <seb128> :-(
[16:24] <pitti> asac: in the sense of updating to a new upstream release?
[16:24] <pitti> or in the sense of actually understanding the code?
[16:24]  * pitti has done the former a lot, but not the latter
[16:24] <asac> pitti: yes. how to update the packaging branches. how to produce proper orig.tar.gz
[16:24] <asac> how to QA the stuff
[16:24] <asac> and so on
[16:24] <pitti> hm, that changed quite a lot
[16:25] <pitti> asac: maybe you can document the procedure somewhere, so that we have a recipe, should we need to do it again?
[16:25] <seb128> asac: not me, I've already way too much on my plates and that's not likely a trivial job
[16:25] <asac> pitti: documentation helps. but practice is better ;)
[16:25] <seb128> but what pitti said seems good
[16:25] <asac> i think we have that documented somewhere already. but yeah, thats definitly a requirement
[16:26] <pitti> asac: debian/rules make-orig or so?
[16:26] <pitti> asac: QA> what do you do there, do you have a series of tests (web pages, menu commands, etc.) which you run through?
[16:26] <asac> pitti: we have a get-orig-source rule. but it accepts parameters so you can get special tags/snapshots from CVS and so on
[16:27] <asac> pitti: yes we have tests on a QA wiki page
[16:27] <pitti> I also guess you test reverse dependencies, like epiphany?
[16:27] <seb128> asac: you should teach that to the security team if that's for security updates ;-)
[16:27] <pitti> asac: ah, that sounds good then; so I guess all is necessary is a 10-line README in the source package with some URLs?
[16:27] <asac> pitti: everything should already be there from a documentation point of view. i am just sure that when there is a need to do an update it will take ages
[16:28] <asac> pitti: theoretically yes. in practice sending out a security update needs someone who did that in the past imo
[16:28] <asac> but we can talk about that at UDS
[16:28] <asac> i will not be on holiday till christmas ;)
[16:28] <pitti> asac: right; so a dry run would be beneficial, maybe with the security team
[16:29] <pitti> asac: I figure you could check out an older version and claim that the current one was just released, and update to it as an exercise?
[16:29] <pitti> asac: I think it's worth mailing security@u.c. and planning a firedrill
[16:30] <asac> ok.
[16:31] <asac> thats it on that point
[16:31]  * asac has to join a call now
[16:31] <pitti> thanks for bringing it up
[16:31]  * asac waves
[16:31] <pitti> asac: see you next week! *hug*
[16:31] <pitti> see all of you next week, too!
[16:31] <rickspencer4> thanks
[16:31] <pitti> until then, happy merging, SRUing, and preparing for U.S. immigration :)
[16:32] <pitti> rickspencer4: what happened to Rick the 3rd?
[16:32] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[16:32] <seb128> pitti: thanks, you too
[16:32] <rickspencer4> I had to rejoin, and irc incremented my user name for me
[16:32] <pitti> rickspencer4: look at how unstable seb128's ISP is...
[16:32] <rickspencer4> problem is, rickspencer4 is mu boy
[16:33] <rickspencer4> :o
[16:33] <mpt> mvo, did you get my mail about package management?
[19:10] <yotama9> hi guys. I hope this is the right channel to ask for help. I am trying to make 0my machine to auto play cd's when they are mounted to my machine (and also change those properties) any help?
[19:11] <rlaager> yotama9: You want to be in #ubuntu
[19:14] <yotama9> thanks
[23:24] <espacious> can i still upgrade my feisty 7.04 desktop to maybe 7.10 or 8.04 or maybe eaven 8.10
[23:24] <espacious> update manager hangs.