=== salgado-afk is now known as salgado
MootBotMeeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.15:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:00
barryhello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting.  who's here today?15:00
=== abentley1 is now known as abentley
* mars was thinking of 'moo', but chicken'd out15:02
marscluck cluck15:02
barry[TOPIC] agenda15:02
MootBotNew Topic:  agenda15:02
barry * Roll call15:02
barry * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno15:02
barry * Merge proposal bugs15:02
barry   * 245257 - 5 (diffs/bundles)15:02
barry   * 202000 - 3 (complete diffs)15:02
barry   * 300462 - 2 (better follow up diffs)15:02
barry   * 297547 - 2 (CC someone via email)15:03
barry   * 295156 - 1 (one mail on merge proposals)15:03
barry   * 297640 - 1 (quote comments in web ui)15:03
barry   * 297669 - 1 (Approve a mp via email)15:03
barry   * 301836 - 1 (dashboard - difficult to figure out what to do)15:03
barry   * 264905 - 1 (access via launchpadlib)15:03
barry * If there's time, the old boring script15:03
barry   * Next meeting15:03
barry   * Action items15:03
barry   * Queue status15:03
barry   * Mentoring update15:03
barry     * al-maisan looking for a mentor15:03
barry[TOPIC]  * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno15:03
MootBotNew Topic:   * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno15:03
barrybeuno: the floor is yours15:03
beunohello hello15:03
beunoso, I sent out an email to the list about this15:03
beunoand since everyone seemed on board with the idea15:04
beunoI'd like to formalize it somehow for the reviews15:04
beunothe main idea is to have enough information beforehand being collected, to be able to track the impact of the feature/change15:04
danilosme (late)15:04
jtv1me too15:05
abentleybeuno: I don't really get it.  What features do we graph, and how do we know what we care about?15:05
danilosI wonder more about how much overhead this introduces to our development process15:06
bacbeuno: like abentley i'm a little confused and would benefit from a fleshed-out example.15:06
beunoso, if you're going to add diffs to merge proposals, make sure we have a graph on how many merge proposals we have per day15:07
beunomaybe how many comments per merge proposal15:07
beunoand that we we can measure what kind of impact the feature had15:07
beunois it making users use the feature more?15:07
beunoare they commenting less?15:07
beunobasically enough information to be able to interpret them15:08
barrybeuno: i have no idea how to create graphs.  i know how to collect data i might be interested in in my db tables tho15:08
barrybeuno: are we basically talking about making sure we're collecting interesting usage data for our new features, or is there more to that?15:08
marsabentley, a good example of a back-fill graph would the the 'Review type' feature.  Do people ever set the review type?  How often?15:08
flacostebarry:  i think it's adding cricket graph15:09
beunobarry, it's just opening an RT ticket with the sql query to be ran every day15:09
kiko-afkhey there15:09
kiko-afkcan you guys ask martin through email15:09
jtv1kiko-afk, you're here!15:09
kiko-afkor next century15:09
* beuno closes laptop15:09
barryokay!  i guess we'll continue that discussion on the ml15:10
marsnow *that* was a drive-by15:10
gmbFrom now on let it be known:15:10
gmbkiko is beuno's mother15:10
barrynow that they're gone, it's time to party!15:10
barry[TOPIC]  * Merge proposal bugs15:10
MootBotNew Topic:   * Merge proposal bugs15:10
barrythanks everyone who sent me their feedback.  here are the totals so far:15:11
barry   * 245257 - 5 (diffs/bundles)15:11
barry   * 202000 - 3 (complete diffs)15:11
barry   * 300462 - 2 (better follow up diffs)15:11
barry   * 297547 - 2 (CC someone via email)15:11
barry   * 295156 - 1 (one mail on merge proposals)15:11
barry   * 297640 - 1 (quote comments in web ui)15:11
abentleybeuno: I am skepical that we'll know the right things to graph before we land the feature.  I am skeptical that it will be physically possible to create the graph before we land the feature.15:11
barry   * 297669 - 1 (Approve a mp via email)15:11
barry   * 301836 - 1 (dashboard - difficult to figure out what to do)15:11
barry   * 264905 - 1 (access via launchpadlib)15:11
barrythe first number is the bug number, second is the # of people who named that bug, followed by a brief summary15:11
bacbug301836 += 115:11
barrybac: i guess make that 2 :)15:12
barryit's clear to me that 245257 is our top priority15:12
barry202000 and 300462 are closely related15:12
danilosmy idea about 297669 is similar to what 301836 will provide (i.e. if we finally start using the merge-proposal status and set it as "Approved" instead of just voting, we'd be able to see what is there that still needs to be reviewed)15:12
barrydoes anybody have any addition comments, and then i'd like to get abentley and rockstar 's feedback15:12
rockstarbarry, I know MOST of those are being worked on in some form or another.15:13
danilosrockstar: ok, so they'll be done by next week? ;)15:14
* danilos runs and hides15:14
rockstardanilos, well, for some of them, yes.15:14
barryrockstar: i'm off for thanksgiving weekend, so if you could land those my monday, that would be great kthxbye15:14
rockstarbarry, but I need turkey too!15:14
barryabentley: clearly 245257 is our #1 request.  any word on that?15:15
flacostebarry: 300462 +1 (i didn't vote on my bug)15:15
abentleybarry: The general case will take a while, because we need a job processing system to accomplish it.15:15
barryrockstar: http://markmail.org/message/bve73p3qumsij3he15:15
barryflacoste: thanks, i'll up the tally on that one15:16
abentleybarry: And that was blocked by sabdfl until quite recently15:16
barryabentley: ack15:16
abentleybarry: I am currently working on support for merge directives.  That will be able to use the diff from the merge directive.15:17
barryabentley: that.  will.   rock.15:17
barryabentley, rockstar do you think the team will find this list helpful?15:18
rockstarbarry, I know I do.15:18
abentleybarry: Not really.  We know all this stuff.15:18
rockstarThe bugs at the top I knew are important, but the ones farther down are helpful in figuring out which bugs tagged code-review are most important.15:18
rockstarBecause there are probably 30 bugs, and it's good to know which 10 of those are most important to the rest of the lp team.15:19
abentleybarry: Code review by email was intended to support attachments.  We'll need to investigate why they don't.15:19
barrycool, what say i update the tallies after this meeting and send it on to the list.  maybe someone on the team can provide a feedback on a rough alignment of these with your own priorities?15:19
=== salgado is now known as salgado-lunch
barryabentley: thx15:21
barryBjornT: what do you think?15:21
gmbbarry: BjornT's all sprinty with beuno, kiko and intellectronica.15:22
gmbSo his responses might be delayed somewhat.15:22
abentleythumper is working on 29515615:22
flacosteabentley: do you know they don't, i assumed they didn't but didn't try it out15:22
barrygmb: k15:22
abentley297669 seems reasonable and easy15:22
abentleythumper is also working on 30183615:23
abentleyrockstar is working on 26490515:23
barryabentley: are the email commands documented in the help wiki?15:23
abentleybarry: yes.15:23
* rockstar nods15:23
barryabentley: great!15:23
barryanything else on this topic?15:24
abentley300462 will take even longer than a general solution for 202000, because sabdfl doesn't want us to do this for every project on launchpad.15:25
barryabentley: why not?15:25
abentleyInstead, there will be a script you can run in an EC2 instance.15:25
abentleybarry: Resource consumption.15:25
flacosteabentley: for the record, if attachment are handled, i consider 300462 as not really worth it15:26
flacosteabentley: developer are used to and can attach the diff to the follow-up email, i though attachments weren't supported15:27
abentley297547 is impossible, because sabdfl doesn't want to allow subscriptions to code reviews.15:27
flacosteand thumper didn't told me they were when I discuss this aspect with him and he told me to file a general bug about that aspect15:27
abentleyflacoste: We intended attachments to work.  They don't.  We haven't had a chance to find out why.15:28
flacosteabentley: then fixing attachment is enough for me to consider that bug complete15:29
abentleyI only verified it yesteday.15:29
abentleyflacoste: Cool15:29
barrythanks everyone.  i appreciate the discussion.  i think it will make mp's really excellent to use.  moving on...15:29
barryi'm going to skip around a little bit...15:30
barry[TOPIC]    * Mentoring update15:30
MootBotNew Topic:     * Mentoring update15:30
barry     * al-maisan looking for a mentor15:30
barryhave we rounded up a mentor for al-maisan yet?15:30
al-maisanbarry: yes15:30
barryal-maisan: excellent, who?15:30
al-maisangmb volunteered15:30
barryfantastic!  al-maisan welcome aboard.  gmb thanks!15:31
* bigjools winks at gmb and hands over the fiver15:31
barry[TOPIC]    * Action items15:31
MootBotNew Topic:     * Action items15:31
barry * barry to look into techniques for eliminating back-patching of schema types (avoiding circular imports)15:31
barryi have done nothing on this yet, but i plan on looking at it over the break.  i think it will be easy15:31
barry[TOPIC] anything else?15:32
MootBotNew Topic:  anything else?15:32
barrydoes anybody have anything not on the agenda today?15:32
abentleyYes.  When am I a reviewer?15:32
abentleyOCR, I mean?15:32
barryabentley: ah.  what would you prefer?  i'm very happy to say we have great coverage for eu/am15:33
barryabentley: i'm also happy to move if you prefer mondays15:33
rockstarabentley, you get the Monday AsiaPac shift!  :)15:33
barrybut i think we'll be doubling up no matter what we do, unless some of us move to au/nz :)15:34
barrydoubling up is not a bad thing!15:34
abentleyI think Mondays are best for me.  But if al-maisan and gmb are doing mondays, that doesn't make sense, does it?15:34
gmbabentley: Well, you start fairly late in our day.15:35
abentleyFridays might also work.15:35
al-maisanhmm .. different time zones15:35
gmbSo it's not *that* mcuh of an overlap.15:35
gmbabentley: What's your timezone?15:35
abentleyOn Monday, I haven't spoken to thumper for 2 days.15:35
marsgmb, same as mine15:35
barryabentley: i'm also happy to move to another day if you really want mondays15:35
gmbmars: Which one is that?15:35
* gmb has the dumb15:35
marsgmb, EST15:35
gmbAh, okay.15:35
gmbSo, abentley is al-maisan -6, gmb -5. That's not a terrible overlap.15:36
barryabentley: your call.  pick a slot15:37
abentleyOkay.  I guess I didn't realize you were going off shift soon after I arrived.15:37
abentleybarry: Okay, Mondays please.15:37
barryabentley: it's yours.  i'll find a time to move to15:37
abentleybarry: ta15:37
barrycool.  any other topics for today?15:38
abentleybarry: Is it true that we're no longer adding entries to lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces ?15:38
barryabentley: more specific imports are preferred, yes15:39
abentleyi.e. you should do "from canonical.launchpad.interfaces.branch import Branch"?15:39
barryabentley: correct15:39
abentleyOkay.  What about "from canonical.launchpad.interfaces import branch"?15:40
barryabentley: i have no problem with that if it helps avoid name conflicts15:40
barryi.e. implements(branch.IBranch)15:40
abentleybarry: it helps reduce the number of imports tremendously.15:41
sinzuiabentley: barry: That is common practice in Zope code15:41
abentleysinzui: Also in Bazaar, though both forms are accepted.15:42
barryi think i'd like to see what that looks like if it's used more frequently.  i like the shorter names and don't mind the longer imports, but if you want to start using that style, let's see how it looks15:42
barryanything else with our last 2 minutes?15:43
sinzuibarry: It may be a solution to the insanely long soyuz names15:43
barrysinzui: that in itself would be enough! :)15:44
bigjoolsleave our long names alone!15:44
barryand with that, we're done! :)15:45
sinzuiIt's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it.15:45
MootBotMeeting finished at 09:45.15:45
gmbsinzui: Well placed last word on the log.15:45
barrythanks everyone!  for those of you in the use.  have a happy thanksgiving15:45
sinzuigmb: I was trying to get that in before barry closed the meeting15:46
marsthanks barry15:46
barrysinzui: i was counting on a risqué comment to end the meeting :)15:47
=== salgado-lunch is now known as salgado
=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk
=== mthaddon_ is now known as mthaddon

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