=== salgado-afk is now known as salgado [15:00] #startmeeting [15:00] Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry. [15:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [15:00] hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting. who's here today? [15:00] me [15:00] me [15:00] me [15:00] me [15:01] me [15:01] me [15:01] me [15:01] moo [15:01] me === abentley1 is now known as abentley [15:02] * mars was thinking of 'moo', but chicken'd out [15:02] cluck cluck [15:02] [TOPIC] agenda [15:02] New Topic: agenda [15:02] * Roll call [15:02] * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno [15:02] * Merge proposal bugs [15:02] * 245257 - 5 (diffs/bundles) [15:02] * 202000 - 3 (complete diffs) [15:02] * 300462 - 2 (better follow up diffs) [15:03] * 297547 - 2 (CC someone via email) [15:03] * 295156 - 1 (one mail on merge proposals) [15:03] * 297640 - 1 (quote comments in web ui) [15:03] * 297669 - 1 (Approve a mp via email) [15:03] * 301836 - 1 (dashboard - difficult to figure out what to do) [15:03] * 264905 - 1 (access via launchpadlib) [15:03] * If there's time, the old boring script [15:03] * Next meeting [15:03] * Action items [15:03] me [15:03] * Queue status [15:03] * Mentoring update [15:03] * al-maisan looking for a mentor [15:03] [TOPIC] * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno [15:03] New Topic: * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno [15:03] beuno: the floor is yours [15:03] hello hello [15:03] so, I sent out an email to the list about this [15:04] and since everyone seemed on board with the idea [15:04] I'd like to formalize it somehow for the reviews [15:04] the main idea is to have enough information beforehand being collected, to be able to track the impact of the feature/change [15:04] me (late) [15:05] me too [15:05] beuno: I don't really get it. What features do we graph, and how do we know what we care about? [15:06] I wonder more about how much overhead this introduces to our development process [15:06] beuno: like abentley i'm a little confused and would benefit from a fleshed-out example. [15:07] so, if you're going to add diffs to merge proposals, make sure we have a graph on how many merge proposals we have per day [15:07] maybe how many comments per merge proposal [15:07] and that we we can measure what kind of impact the feature had [15:07] is it making users use the feature more? [15:07] are they commenting less? [15:08] basically enough information to be able to interpret them [15:08] beuno: i have no idea how to create graphs. i know how to collect data i might be interested in in my db tables tho [15:08] beuno: are we basically talking about making sure we're collecting interesting usage data for our new features, or is there more to that? [15:08] abentley, a good example of a back-fill graph would the the 'Review type' feature. Do people ever set the review type? How often? [15:09] barry: i think it's adding cricket graph [15:09] barry, it's just opening an RT ticket with the sql query to be ran every day [15:09] hey there [15:09] can you guys ask martin through email [15:09] kiko-afk, you're here! [15:09] or next century [15:09] kthxbye [15:09] * beuno closes laptop [15:10] okay! i guess we'll continue that discussion on the ml [15:10] now *that* was a drive-by [15:10] From now on let it be known: [15:10] kiko is beuno's mother [15:10] Ha! [15:10] now that they're gone, it's time to party! [15:10] [TOPIC] * Merge proposal bugs [15:10] New Topic: * Merge proposal bugs [15:11] thanks everyone who sent me their feedback. here are the totals so far: [15:11] * 245257 - 5 (diffs/bundles) [15:11] * 202000 - 3 (complete diffs) [15:11] * 300462 - 2 (better follow up diffs) [15:11] * 297547 - 2 (CC someone via email) [15:11] * 295156 - 1 (one mail on merge proposals) [15:11] * 297640 - 1 (quote comments in web ui) [15:11] beuno: I am skepical that we'll know the right things to graph before we land the feature. I am skeptical that it will be physically possible to create the graph before we land the feature. [15:11] * 297669 - 1 (Approve a mp via email) [15:11] * 301836 - 1 (dashboard - difficult to figure out what to do) [15:11] * 264905 - 1 (access via launchpadlib) [15:11] the first number is the bug number, second is the # of people who named that bug, followed by a brief summary [15:11] bug301836 += 1 [15:12] bac: i guess make that 2 :) [15:12] it's clear to me that 245257 is our top priority [15:12] 202000 and 300462 are closely related [15:12] my idea about 297669 is similar to what 301836 will provide (i.e. if we finally start using the merge-proposal status and set it as "Approved" instead of just voting, we'd be able to see what is there that still needs to be reviewed) [15:12] does anybody have any addition comments, and then i'd like to get abentley and rockstar 's feedback [15:13] barry, I know MOST of those are being worked on in some form or another. [15:14] rockstar: ok, so they'll be done by next week? ;) [15:14] * danilos runs and hides [15:14] danilos, well, for some of them, yes. [15:14] rockstar: i'm off for thanksgiving weekend, so if you could land those my monday, that would be great kthxbye [15:14] :) [15:14] barry, but I need turkey too! [15:15] abentley: clearly 245257 is our #1 request. any word on that? [15:15] barry: 300462 +1 (i didn't vote on my bug) [15:15] barry: The general case will take a while, because we need a job processing system to accomplish it. [15:15] rockstar: http://markmail.org/message/bve73p3qumsij3he [15:16] flacoste: thanks, i'll up the tally on that one [15:16] barry: And that was blocked by sabdfl until quite recently [15:16] abentley: ack [15:17] barry: I am currently working on support for merge directives. That will be able to use the diff from the merge directive. [15:17] abentley: that. will. rock. [15:18] abentley, rockstar do you think the team will find this list helpful? [15:18] barry, I know I do. [15:18] barry: Not really. We know all this stuff. [15:18] The bugs at the top I knew are important, but the ones farther down are helpful in figuring out which bugs tagged code-review are most important. [15:19] Because there are probably 30 bugs, and it's good to know which 10 of those are most important to the rest of the lp team. [15:19] barry: Code review by email was intended to support attachments. We'll need to investigate why they don't. [15:19] cool, what say i update the tallies after this meeting and send it on to the list. maybe someone on the team can provide a feedback on a rough alignment of these with your own priorities? === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch [15:21] abentley: thx [15:21] BjornT: what do you think? [15:22] barry: BjornT's all sprinty with beuno, kiko and intellectronica. [15:22] So his responses might be delayed somewhat. [15:22] thumper is working on 295156 [15:22] abentley: do you know they don't, i assumed they didn't but didn't try it out [15:22] gmb: k [15:22] 297669 seems reasonable and easy [15:23] thumper is also working on 301836 [15:23] rockstar is working on 264905 [15:23] abentley: are the email commands documented in the help wiki? [15:23] barry: yes. [15:23] * rockstar nods [15:23] abentley: great! [15:24] anything else on this topic? [15:25] 300462 will take even longer than a general solution for 202000, because sabdfl doesn't want us to do this for every project on launchpad. [15:25] abentley: why not? [15:25] Instead, there will be a script you can run in an EC2 instance. [15:25] barry: Resource consumption. [15:26] ah [15:26] abentley: for the record, if attachment are handled, i consider 300462 as not really worth it [15:27] abentley: developer are used to and can attach the diff to the follow-up email, i though attachments weren't supported [15:27] 297547 is impossible, because sabdfl doesn't want to allow subscriptions to code reviews. [15:27] and thumper didn't told me they were when I discuss this aspect with him and he told me to file a general bug about that aspect [15:28] flacoste: We intended attachments to work. They don't. We haven't had a chance to find out why. [15:29] abentley: then fixing attachment is enough for me to consider that bug complete [15:29] I only verified it yesteday. [15:29] flacoste: Cool [15:29] thanks everyone. i appreciate the discussion. i think it will make mp's really excellent to use. moving on... [15:30] i'm going to skip around a little bit... [15:30] [TOPIC] * Mentoring update [15:30] New Topic: * Mentoring update [15:30] * al-maisan looking for a mentor [15:30] have we rounded up a mentor for al-maisan yet? [15:30] barry: yes [15:30] al-maisan: excellent, who? [15:30] gmb volunteered [15:30] :) [15:31] fantastic! al-maisan welcome aboard. gmb thanks! [15:31] thanks! [15:31] * bigjools winks at gmb and hands over the fiver [15:31] [TOPIC] * Action items [15:31] New Topic: * Action items [15:31] Heh. [15:31] * barry to look into techniques for eliminating back-patching of schema types (avoiding circular imports) [15:31] i have done nothing on this yet, but i plan on looking at it over the break. i think it will be easy [15:32] [TOPIC] anything else? [15:32] New Topic: anything else? [15:32] does anybody have anything not on the agenda today? [15:32] Yes. When am I a reviewer? [15:32] OCR, I mean? [15:32] :) [15:33] abentley: ah. what would you prefer? i'm very happy to say we have great coverage for eu/am [15:33] abentley: i'm also happy to move if you prefer mondays [15:33] abentley, you get the Monday AsiaPac shift! :) [15:34] but i think we'll be doubling up no matter what we do, unless some of us move to au/nz :) [15:34] doubling up is not a bad thing! [15:34] I think Mondays are best for me. But if al-maisan and gmb are doing mondays, that doesn't make sense, does it? [15:35] abentley: Well, you start fairly late in our day. [15:35] Fridays might also work. [15:35] hmm .. different time zones [15:35] So it's not *that* mcuh of an overlap. [15:35] yep [15:35] abentley: What's your timezone? [15:35] On Monday, I haven't spoken to thumper for 2 days. [15:35] gmb, same as mine [15:35] ... [15:35] abentley: i'm also happy to move to another day if you really want mondays [15:35] mars: Which one is that? [15:35] * gmb has the dumb [15:35] gmb, EST [15:35] Ah, okay. [15:36] So, abentley is al-maisan -6, gmb -5. That's not a terrible overlap. [15:37] abentley: your call. pick a slot [15:37] Okay. I guess I didn't realize you were going off shift soon after I arrived. [15:37] barry: Okay, Mondays please. [15:37] abentley: it's yours. i'll find a time to move to [15:37] barry: ta [15:38] cool. any other topics for today? [15:38] 5 [15:38] barry: Is it true that we're no longer adding entries to lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces ? [15:39] abentley: more specific imports are preferred, yes [15:39] i.e. you should do "from canonical.launchpad.interfaces.branch import Branch"? [15:39] abentley: correct [15:40] Okay. What about "from canonical.launchpad.interfaces import branch"? [15:40] abentley: i have no problem with that if it helps avoid name conflicts [15:40] i.e. implements(branch.IBranch) [15:41] barry: it helps reduce the number of imports tremendously. [15:41] abentley: barry: That is common practice in Zope code [15:42] sinzui: Also in Bazaar, though both forms are accepted. [15:42] i think i'd like to see what that looks like if it's used more frequently. i like the shorter names and don't mind the longer imports, but if you want to start using that style, let's see how it looks [15:43] Okay. [15:43] anything else with our last 2 minutes? [15:43] barry: It may be a solution to the insanely long soyuz names [15:44] sinzui: that in itself would be enough! :) [15:44] leave our long names alone! [15:45] and with that, we're done! :) [15:45] It's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it. [15:45] #endmeeting [15:45] Meeting finished at 09:45. [15:45] sinzui: Well placed last word on the log. [15:45] thanks everyone! for those of you in the use. have a happy thanksgiving [15:45] s/use/us/ [15:46] gmb: I was trying to get that in before barry closed the meeting [15:46] thanks barry [15:47] sinzui: i was counting on a risqué comment to end the meeting :) === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado === salgado is now known as salgado-afk === mthaddon_ is now known as mthaddon