[15:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
[15:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:00] <barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
[15:00] <sinzui> me
[15:00] <beuno> me
[15:00] <gmb> me
[15:00] <bac> me
[15:01] <mars> me
[15:01] <adeuring> me
[15:01] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:01] <abentley1> moo
[15:01] <flacoste> me
[15:02]  * mars was thinking of 'moo', but chicken'd out
[15:02] <mars> cluck cluck
[15:02] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[15:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:02] <barry>  * Roll call
[15:02] <barry>  * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno
[15:02] <barry>  * Merge proposal bugs
[15:02] <barry>    * 245257 - 5 (diffs/bundles)
[15:02] <barry>    * 202000 - 3 (complete diffs)
[15:02] <barry>    * 300462 - 2 (better follow up diffs)
[15:03] <barry>    * 297547 - 2 (CC someone via email)
[15:03] <barry>    * 295156 - 1 (one mail on merge proposals)
[15:03] <barry>    * 297640 - 1 (quote comments in web ui)
[15:03] <barry>    * 297669 - 1 (Approve a mp via email)
[15:03] <barry>    * 301836 - 1 (dashboard - difficult to figure out what to do)
[15:03] <barry>    * 264905 - 1 (access via launchpadlib)
[15:03] <barry>  * If there's time, the old boring script
[15:03] <barry>    * Next meeting
[15:03] <barry>    * Action items
[15:03] <rockstar> me
[15:03] <barry>    * Queue status
[15:03] <barry>    * Mentoring update
[15:03] <barry>      * al-maisan looking for a mentor
[15:03] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Getting graphs in place before rolling out features (way before) - beuno
[15:03] <barry> beuno: the floor is yours
[15:03] <beuno> hello hello
[15:03] <beuno> so, I sent out an email to the list about this
[15:04] <beuno> and since everyone seemed on board with the idea
[15:04] <beuno> I'd like to formalize it somehow for the reviews
[15:04] <beuno> the main idea is to have enough information beforehand being collected, to be able to track the impact of the feature/change
[15:04] <danilos> me (late)
[15:05] <jtv1> me too
[15:05] <abentley> beuno: I don't really get it.  What features do we graph, and how do we know what we care about?
[15:06] <danilos> I wonder more about how much overhead this introduces to our development process
[15:06] <bac> beuno: like abentley i'm a little confused and would benefit from a fleshed-out example.
[15:07] <beuno> so, if you're going to add diffs to merge proposals, make sure we have a graph on how many merge proposals we have per day
[15:07] <beuno> maybe how many comments per merge proposal
[15:07] <beuno> and that we we can measure what kind of impact the feature had
[15:07] <beuno> is it making users use the feature more?
[15:07] <beuno> are they commenting less?
[15:08] <beuno> basically enough information to be able to interpret them
[15:08] <barry> beuno: i have no idea how to create graphs.  i know how to collect data i might be interested in in my db tables tho
[15:08] <barry> beuno: are we basically talking about making sure we're collecting interesting usage data for our new features, or is there more to that?
[15:08] <mars> abentley, a good example of a back-fill graph would the the 'Review type' feature.  Do people ever set the review type?  How often?
[15:09] <flacoste> barry:  i think it's adding cricket graph
[15:09] <beuno> barry, it's just opening an RT ticket with the sql query to be ran every day
[15:09] <kiko-afk> hey there
[15:09] <kiko-afk> can you guys ask martin through email
[15:09] <jtv1> kiko-afk, you're here!
[15:09] <kiko-afk> or next century
[15:09] <kiko-afk> kthxbye
[15:09]  * beuno closes laptop
[15:10] <barry> okay!  i guess we'll continue that discussion on the ml
[15:10] <mars> now *that* was a drive-by
[15:10] <gmb> From now on let it be known:
[15:10] <gmb> kiko is beuno's mother
[15:10] <rockstar> Ha!
[15:10] <barry> now that they're gone, it's time to party!
[15:10] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Merge proposal bugs
[15:10] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Merge proposal bugs
[15:11] <barry> thanks everyone who sent me their feedback.  here are the totals so far:
[15:11] <barry>    * 245257 - 5 (diffs/bundles)
[15:11] <barry>    * 202000 - 3 (complete diffs)
[15:11] <barry>    * 300462 - 2 (better follow up diffs)
[15:11] <barry>    * 297547 - 2 (CC someone via email)
[15:11] <barry>    * 295156 - 1 (one mail on merge proposals)
[15:11] <barry>    * 297640 - 1 (quote comments in web ui)
[15:11] <abentley> beuno: I am skepical that we'll know the right things to graph before we land the feature.  I am skeptical that it will be physically possible to create the graph before we land the feature.
[15:11] <barry>    * 297669 - 1 (Approve a mp via email)
[15:11] <barry>    * 301836 - 1 (dashboard - difficult to figure out what to do)
[15:11] <barry>    * 264905 - 1 (access via launchpadlib)
[15:11] <barry> the first number is the bug number, second is the # of people who named that bug, followed by a brief summary
[15:11] <bac> bug301836 += 1
[15:12] <barry> bac: i guess make that 2 :)
[15:12] <barry> it's clear to me that 245257 is our top priority
[15:12] <barry> 202000 and 300462 are closely related
[15:12] <danilos> my idea about 297669 is similar to what 301836 will provide (i.e. if we finally start using the merge-proposal status and set it as "Approved" instead of just voting, we'd be able to see what is there that still needs to be reviewed)
[15:12] <barry> does anybody have any addition comments, and then i'd like to get abentley and rockstar 's feedback
[15:13] <rockstar> barry, I know MOST of those are being worked on in some form or another.
[15:14] <danilos> rockstar: ok, so they'll be done by next week? ;)
[15:14]  * danilos runs and hides
[15:14] <rockstar> danilos, well, for some of them, yes.
[15:14] <barry> rockstar: i'm off for thanksgiving weekend, so if you could land those my monday, that would be great kthxbye
[15:14] <barry> :)
[15:14] <rockstar> barry, but I need turkey too!
[15:15] <barry> abentley: clearly 245257 is our #1 request.  any word on that?
[15:15] <flacoste> barry: 300462 +1 (i didn't vote on my bug)
[15:15] <abentley> barry: The general case will take a while, because we need a job processing system to accomplish it.
[15:15] <barry> rockstar: http://markmail.org/message/bve73p3qumsij3he
[15:16] <barry> flacoste: thanks, i'll up the tally on that one
[15:16] <abentley> barry: And that was blocked by sabdfl until quite recently
[15:16] <barry> abentley: ack
[15:17] <abentley> barry: I am currently working on support for merge directives.  That will be able to use the diff from the merge directive.
[15:17] <barry> abentley: that.  will.   rock.
[15:18] <barry> abentley, rockstar do you think the team will find this list helpful?
[15:18] <rockstar> barry, I know I do.
[15:18] <abentley> barry: Not really.  We know all this stuff.
[15:18] <rockstar> The bugs at the top I knew are important, but the ones farther down are helpful in figuring out which bugs tagged code-review are most important.
[15:19] <rockstar> Because there are probably 30 bugs, and it's good to know which 10 of those are most important to the rest of the lp team.
[15:19] <abentley> barry: Code review by email was intended to support attachments.  We'll need to investigate why they don't.
[15:19] <barry> cool, what say i update the tallies after this meeting and send it on to the list.  maybe someone on the team can provide a feedback on a rough alignment of these with your own priorities?
[15:21] <barry> abentley: thx
[15:21] <barry> BjornT: what do you think?
[15:22] <gmb> barry: BjornT's all sprinty with beuno, kiko and intellectronica.
[15:22] <gmb> So his responses might be delayed somewhat.
[15:22] <abentley> thumper is working on 295156
[15:22] <flacoste> abentley: do you know they don't, i assumed they didn't but didn't try it out
[15:22] <barry> gmb: k
[15:22] <abentley> 297669 seems reasonable and easy
[15:23] <abentley> thumper is also working on 301836
[15:23] <abentley> rockstar is working on 264905
[15:23] <barry> abentley: are the email commands documented in the help wiki?
[15:23] <abentley> barry: yes.
[15:23]  * rockstar nods
[15:23] <barry> abentley: great!
[15:24] <barry> anything else on this topic?
[15:25] <abentley> 300462 will take even longer than a general solution for 202000, because sabdfl doesn't want us to do this for every project on launchpad.
[15:25] <barry> abentley: why not?
[15:25] <abentley> Instead, there will be a script you can run in an EC2 instance.
[15:25] <abentley> barry: Resource consumption.
[15:26] <barry> ah
[15:26] <flacoste> abentley: for the record, if attachment are handled, i consider 300462 as not really worth it
[15:27] <flacoste> abentley: developer are used to and can attach the diff to the follow-up email, i though attachments weren't supported
[15:27] <abentley> 297547 is impossible, because sabdfl doesn't want to allow subscriptions to code reviews.
[15:27] <flacoste> and thumper didn't told me they were when I discuss this aspect with him and he told me to file a general bug about that aspect
[15:28] <abentley> flacoste: We intended attachments to work.  They don't.  We haven't had a chance to find out why.
[15:29] <flacoste> abentley: then fixing attachment is enough for me to consider that bug complete
[15:29] <abentley> I only verified it yesteday.
[15:29] <abentley> flacoste: Cool
[15:29] <barry> thanks everyone.  i appreciate the discussion.  i think it will make mp's really excellent to use.  moving on...
[15:30] <barry> i'm going to skip around a little bit...
[15:30] <barry> [TOPIC]    * Mentoring update
[15:30] <MootBot> New Topic:     * Mentoring update
[15:30] <barry>      * al-maisan looking for a mentor
[15:30] <barry> have we rounded up a mentor for al-maisan yet?
[15:30] <al-maisan> barry: yes
[15:30] <barry> al-maisan: excellent, who?
[15:30] <al-maisan> gmb volunteered
[15:30] <al-maisan> :)
[15:31] <barry> fantastic!  al-maisan welcome aboard.  gmb thanks!
[15:31] <al-maisan> thanks!
[15:31]  * bigjools winks at gmb and hands over the fiver
[15:31] <barry> [TOPIC]    * Action items
[15:31] <MootBot> New Topic:     * Action items
[15:31] <gmb> Heh.
[15:31] <barry>  * barry to look into techniques for eliminating back-patching of schema types (avoiding circular imports)
[15:31] <barry> i have done nothing on this yet, but i plan on looking at it over the break.  i think it will be easy
[15:32] <barry> [TOPIC] anything else?
[15:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  anything else?
[15:32] <barry> does anybody have anything not on the agenda today?
[15:32] <abentley> Yes.  When am I a reviewer?
[15:32] <abentley> OCR, I mean?
[15:32] <rockstar> :)
[15:33] <barry> abentley: ah.  what would you prefer?  i'm very happy to say we have great coverage for eu/am
[15:33] <barry> abentley: i'm also happy to move if you prefer mondays
[15:33] <rockstar> abentley, you get the Monday AsiaPac shift!  :)
[15:34] <barry> but i think we'll be doubling up no matter what we do, unless some of us move to au/nz :)
[15:34] <barry> doubling up is not a bad thing!
[15:34] <abentley> I think Mondays are best for me.  But if al-maisan and gmb are doing mondays, that doesn't make sense, does it?
[15:35] <gmb> abentley: Well, you start fairly late in our day.
[15:35] <abentley> Fridays might also work.
[15:35] <al-maisan> hmm .. different time zones
[15:35] <gmb> So it's not *that* mcuh of an overlap.
[15:35] <al-maisan> yep
[15:35] <gmb> abentley: What's your timezone?
[15:35] <abentley> On Monday, I haven't spoken to thumper for 2 days.
[15:35] <mars> gmb, same as mine
[15:35] <gmb> ...
[15:35] <barry> abentley: i'm also happy to move to another day if you really want mondays
[15:35] <gmb> mars: Which one is that?
[15:35]  * gmb has the dumb
[15:35] <mars> gmb, EST
[15:35] <gmb> Ah, okay.
[15:36] <gmb> So, abentley is al-maisan -6, gmb -5. That's not a terrible overlap.
[15:37] <barry> abentley: your call.  pick a slot
[15:37] <abentley> Okay.  I guess I didn't realize you were going off shift soon after I arrived.
[15:37] <abentley> barry: Okay, Mondays please.
[15:37] <barry> abentley: it's yours.  i'll find a time to move to
[15:37] <abentley> barry: ta
[15:38] <barry> cool.  any other topics for today?
[15:38] <barry> 5
[15:38] <abentley> barry: Is it true that we're no longer adding entries to lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces ?
[15:39] <barry> abentley: more specific imports are preferred, yes
[15:39] <abentley> i.e. you should do "from canonical.launchpad.interfaces.branch import Branch"?
[15:39] <barry> abentley: correct
[15:40] <abentley> Okay.  What about "from canonical.launchpad.interfaces import branch"?
[15:40] <barry> abentley: i have no problem with that if it helps avoid name conflicts
[15:40] <barry> i.e. implements(branch.IBranch)
[15:41] <abentley> barry: it helps reduce the number of imports tremendously.
[15:41] <sinzui> abentley: barry: That is common practice in Zope code
[15:42] <abentley> sinzui: Also in Bazaar, though both forms are accepted.
[15:42] <barry> i think i'd like to see what that looks like if it's used more frequently.  i like the shorter names and don't mind the longer imports, but if you want to start using that style, let's see how it looks
[15:43] <abentley> Okay.
[15:43] <barry> anything else with our last 2 minutes?
[15:43] <sinzui> barry: It may be a solution to the insanely long soyuz names
[15:44] <barry> sinzui: that in itself would be enough! :)
[15:44] <bigjools> leave our long names alone!
[15:45] <barry> and with that, we're done! :)
[15:45] <sinzui> It's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it.
[15:45] <barry> #endmeeting
[15:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:45.
[15:45] <gmb> sinzui: Well placed last word on the log.
[15:45] <barry> thanks everyone!  for those of you in the use.  have a happy thanksgiving
[15:45] <barry> s/use/us/
[15:46] <sinzui> gmb: I was trying to get that in before barry closed the meeting
[15:46] <mars> thanks barry
[15:47] <barry> sinzui: i was counting on a risqué comment to end the meeting :)