[11:34] <rsc-> hey guys
[11:34] <rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/ucarbon2.jpg
[11:34] <rsc-> what do you think? :/
[11:37] <robsta> hi rsc-
[11:37] <rsc-> hola.
[12:11] <kwwii> hi rsc-
[12:11] <rsc-> hey kwwii
[12:11] <kwwii> nifty mockup
[12:35] <rsc-> part of me thinks its cool, another part of me thinks it's ugly.
[12:35] <rsc-> lol
[12:44] <rsc-> ugh, i like it, but it's not kickass enough.
[12:45] <rsc-> _MMA_, http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/ucarbon2.jpg - what do you think? :)
[13:01] <_MMA_> Oh Wow. Nice. Is that real?
[13:10] <_MMA_> bbiab
[13:20] <robsta> rsc-: the scroll bars look very original
[13:27] <wedderburn> the corners need more rounding, you can see the pixels
[13:27] <kwwii> robsta: btw, I mentioned that I had some unfinished stuff laying around that I wanted to work on, here it is: http://sinecera.de/mock.png
[13:27] <kwwii> as you can see I didn't get very far
[13:28] <robsta> kwwii: reminds me a bit of http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/CleanLime?content=41233
[13:29] <wedderburn> but doesn't have that annoyingly fake gloss
[13:30] <robsta> kwwii: anyway, i'm now frantically trying to get thorwil's single-canvas mockup working
[13:32] <kwwii> cool
[13:33] <robsta> (needs some more librsvg patching unfortunately)
[16:16] <thorwil> hi!
[16:25] <robsta> hi thorwil
[16:25] <robsta> thorwil: you need to name your theme :)
[16:25] <thorwil> robsta: sworp
[16:25] <_MMA_> Or "Plop" :P
[16:28] <robsta> thorwil: have to hack librsvg a bit, almost there
[16:29] <thorwil> robsta: don't listen to _MMA_, he's being silly ;)
[16:29] <robsta> thorwil: but we need to group each button
[16:29] <robsta> so they can be referred to using a single ID
[16:30] <thorwil> robsta: using the plate #id to get the area doesn't work?
[16:31] <robsta> thorwil: no, because svg doesn't have such a concept of implicit containers (afaik)
[16:31] <thorwil> robsta: because, if you use groups, you have to set the right ID again and again and again when editing
[16:31] <robsta> yeah, it sucks
[16:32] <robsta> what are the single-canvas-icon people doing?
[16:33] <thorwil> robsta: they use the plate IDs for script-driven bitmap export
[16:33] <thorwil> robsta: _MMA_ knows the details
[16:34] <_MMA_> There is a "plate layer" under the desired object.
[16:34] <_MMA_> Each square under that later acts as a bounding box.
[16:34] <_MMA_> s/under/on
[16:35] <_MMA_> That square has properties. ie: 48x48 that represents that icon size.
[16:35] <robsta> guess that would work with librsvg too
[16:35] <robsta> get the position of the "plate", then draw the whole file with appropriate clipping
[16:35] <_MMA_> So the script we have looks for that square, and just grabs everything above.
[16:36] <robsta> will be prone to overhead with rsvg, because the whole canvas has to be rendered each time
[16:37] <_MMA_> Check it out. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebreathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/download/head:/breathe_icon_templat-20080905042226-bvdzo9fb8th94dyh-3/Breathe_Icon_Template.svg?file_id=template-20080905042226-bvdzo9fb8th94dyh-2
[16:38] <robsta> i see
[16:38] <_MMA_> And the script. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebreathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/download/coryisatm%40ubuntu.com-20080927155504-1wq75t2rjtbim7j4/render_bitmap.py-20080904180602-4kcena7h7l22ot23-2/render_bitmap.py
[16:38] <thorwil> robsta: the svg is not rendered once to then use the bitmaps?
[16:39] <robsta> no, the idea is to draw the theme from the canvas
[16:39] <robsta> (the original idea, fwiw)
[16:39] <_MMA_> So that script makes 1 large scaliable SVG and then renders the rest to bitmap.
[16:40] <robsta> _MMA_: the icon script?
[16:40] <thorwil> the file i prepared was meant to be used in the same way
[16:41] <_MMA_> robsta: YEs
[16:41] <robsta> thorwil: hmm
[16:41] <_MMA_> If you pull the code and run the script, it will make the icon set for you in the "Breathe" folder.
[16:42] <robsta> _MMA_: thanks, think i understand the icon approach a bit better now
[16:43] <_MMA_> np
[16:43] <robsta> thing is i has something different in mind
[16:43] <thorwil> robsta: i have to say that having to manually set the IDs on groups would cost you designers ;)  as alternative, i wonder if you could search for a group based on its coordinates, to completely ignore the naming
[16:44] <robsta> thorwil: think i'll go with "plates" way, but dynamically from the canvas
[16:44] <robsta> best of both worlds
[16:44] <robsta> no script needed
[16:45] <thorwil> robsta: so the template i made can remain as is?
[16:45] <_MMA_> robsta: You must hide the plates before you render or they will be in the image.
[16:45] <robsta> oh
[16:45] <robsta> can the plates be invisible?
[16:46] <thorwil> yes
[16:46] <_MMA_> Yes
[16:46] <robsta> that'd be good
[16:46] <thorwil> robsta: by either hiding their layer or setting their alpha to zero
[16:47] <robsta> thorwil: the template can stay pretty much
[16:48] <_MMA_> thorwil: Link to your template?
[16:49] <thorwil> robsta: good. because after finishing a complete set, i want to make a call for button design on the ubuntu-art list, offering that template as base ;)
[16:49] <thorwil> _MMA_: it's not online, mailing you
[16:49] <_MMA_> cool
[16:49] <robsta> thorwil: it's awesome you got this started, been frantically fixing bugs all day
[16:50] <thorwil> robsta: heh, it's nothing. yet ;)
[16:50] <robsta> it turned up lots of problems
[16:56] <_MMA_> thorwil: Looking through the template, it looks perfect.
[16:56] <thorwil> good, ty :)
[17:05] <thorwil> i wonder why i made plates for insensitive combined with anything but unfocused, though :)
[18:09] <dilomo> hi guys
[18:19] <_MMA_> yo
[18:31] <dilomo> what's up
[18:31] <dilomo> _MMA_: I saw what a wonderful
[18:31] <dilomo> job is Sebastion doing
[18:31] <dilomo> is his work going to be included
[18:32] <dilomo> in Human
[18:32] <_MMA_> See my reply on the list.
[18:33] <dilomo> but why?
[18:33] <_MMA_> It's not part of Human.
[18:33] <dilomo> ooops my mistake
[18:33] <dilomo> I meant Breath
[18:33] <dilomo> the new Human
[18:34] <_MMA_> Yes. It will be part of Brethe.
[18:34] <_MMA_> Ill be getting them in soon.
[18:34] <_MMA_> *In* BZR that is.
[18:35] <dilomo> do I have permissons to download
[18:35] <dilomo> it from bzr
[18:36] <_MMA_> Anyone can download. Only upload is restricted.
[18:37] <dilomo> cool
[18:37] <dilomo> I'll check it out
[18:37] <thorwil> hi dilomo. how's things?
[18:38] <dilomo> thorwil: good
[18:39] <dilomo> how is the (art)work going in here?
[18:39] <thorwil> dilomo: we are feeling lonely
[18:40] <dilomo> why if I may ask?
[18:41] <thorwil> dilomo: lack of contributors. but you're one of the last persons i should complain to :)
[18:41] <dilomo> I think that there will be more contributors
[18:41] <dilomo> if we were showing them off more
[18:42] <dilomo> of what's going to be new in the next Ubuntu
[18:43] <thorwil> dilomo: do you have a screenshot of the most recent New Wave at hand?
[18:44] <dilomo> no
[18:44] <dilomo> basically I'm struggling with the button focus
[18:44] <dilomo> right now
[18:45] <dilomo> it is very hard to make it right in the pixmap
[18:45] <dilomo> engine
[18:46] <dilomo> wait a sec to make a screenshot
[18:46] <dilomo> and upload it
[18:50] <dilomo> http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=25388_Test_122_401lo.jpg
[18:53] <thorwil> dilomo: well, on that one, the titlebar-behind-content impression is gone
[18:54] <dilomo> maybe because the shadow is smaller
[18:54] <dilomo> but I think of some kind of texture like
[18:54] <dilomo> carbon on 20% opacity
[18:54] <dilomo> or smth like that
[18:55] <thorwil> dilomo: i think you should make the shadow a tad stronger _and_ add an highlight on the bottom of the titlebar, that looks like it actually belongs to the content
[18:56] <dilomo> you mean a highligh on the bottom of the menubar?
[18:56] <thorwil> dilomo: oh, yes
[18:57] <dilomo> yes that will work
[18:57] <thorwil> dilomo: a texture will only help if you make it end in a different way on the upper window edge
[18:58] <thorwil> that is, making the texture look like it follows a rounded edge
[18:59] <dilomo> aham
[18:59] <dilomo> probably smth like this
[18:59] <dilomo> but if I make it lighter
[18:59] <dilomo> at the top the drop shadow effect will be gone
[19:03] <dilomo> I will experiment freely with that but what bothers me that I cannot change focus images for different states of the button e.g. Pressed, Normal ...
[19:04] <thorwil> dilomo: oh. is that a gtk+ issues or a theme engine specific issue?
[19:05] <dilomo> pixmap=trouble :) so i guess it is engine
[19:15] <dilomo> nice chat guys
[19:15] <dilomo> but I have to go
[19:15] <thorwil> cya
[19:15] <dilomo> bb :)
[19:46] <thorwil> kwwii: is it even possible to have a different depressed look for a button if it is a dialog's default button?
[20:11] <kwwii> thorwil: you mean different in comparison to another window types button?
[20:11] <thorwil> kwwii: no, other buttons, same window
[20:12] <kwwii> thorwil: no, I do not think you can do that
[20:13] <thorwil> kwwii: i tried to see what human does ... the action buttons of a dialog seem to have an orangish border when depressed. other buttons do not
[20:13] <thorwil> kwwii: so from http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08483/button_set347.png, what do i have to delete?
[20:15] <kwwii> thorwil: I think the theme engine is what does that, not the gtkrc
[20:15] <thorwil> kwwii: ok, lets hope so
[20:15] <kwwii> thorwil: I like the Defualt look but not the colors
[20:17] <thorwil> kwwii: it's actually good if people will find something they don't like about that set ;)
[20:17] <kwwii> :-)
[20:18] <kwwii> looking thorugh the gtkrc of human I know that there is no special definition to get that color for that glow
[20:18] <kwwii> there are only two definitions for buttons in it
[20:19] <thorwil> i have been told by an experienced gtk coder that the concept of Default doesn't even exist :)
[20:21] <thorwil> zum mäusemelken!
[20:23] <kwwii> lol, ich haette dir was sagen sollen
[20:24] <thorwil> kwwii: well, obviously there is *something* that can be themed differently there
[20:24] <thorwil> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes/GtkButton makes it sound like there is a fixed assumption that focus will be indicated with a line
[20:25] <kwwii> thorwil: dependinnding on the theme engine, yes I agree
[20:25] <kwwii> lol, well ...that is a bit too specific for my tastes
[20:28] <thorwil> i guess gtk+ was made with doing exactly what win 3.1 did in mind :>
[20:29] <kwwii> lol, I've had that feeling too
[20:32] <thorwil> kwwii: editing the wiki to insert a few notes, the image as shown and the svg template. to later on hit the list with my call. anything to add from your side?
[20:54] <kwwii> thorwil: nothing off the top of my head
[21:07] <thorwil> kwwii: "a" or "an" in front of "Ubuntu"?
[21:08] <thorwil> nm
[21:10] <thorwil> mail out, good night! :)