[06:53] <mib_ydg6fb2d> http://www.oosms.com > Send Unlimited Free SMS to any mobile phone Worldwide!
[06:54] <mib_x20o6z2y> hi
[06:54] <Hobbsee> no spam here, thanks.
[06:54] <mib_ydg6fb2d> http://www.oosms.com > Send Unlimited Free SMS to any mobile phone Worldwide!
[06:54] <mib_ydg6fb2d> oh.. sorry
[06:55] <Hobbsee> Especially not twice.
[06:55] <Hobbsee> nor in any other #ubuntu channel.
[06:55] <mib_ydg6fb2d> sorry.. im new here
[06:55] <mib_ydg6fb2d> will not do it
[06:55]  * Hobbsee doesn't believe that...
[06:55] <mib_ydg6fb2d> could u let me know where else i can do that
[06:55] <Hobbsee> spam the network?  You can't.
[06:56] <mib_ydg6fb2d> decent classified
[06:57] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: you missed one.
[06:58] <PriceChild> pow
[11:59] <lool> hey
[12:02] <lool> meeting?
[12:03] <lool> ogra
[12:03] <ogra> yep
[12:04] <ogra> #startmeeting
[12:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:04. The chair is ogra.
[12:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:04] <lool> ogra: Only the two of us so far
[12:04] <ogra> not true :)
[12:04] <ogra> StevenK, just joined
[12:04] <lool> Oh right, I'm hiding joins here now
[12:04] <StevenK> Did not
[12:05] <ogra> but it will be only us three
[12:05] <lool> No wiki page I'm afraid
[12:05] <ogra> davidm should be up to his ears in turkey now and persia is vacating heavily i hope
[12:05] <lool> Yup
[12:06] <ogra> right, no wikipage
[12:06] <lool> I have a couple of topics I couldn't add to the agenda
[12:06] <lool> But it's basically about UDS sessions
[12:06] <ogra> shoot then, since we dont seem to have anything special anyway
[12:06] <lool> There are a couple of ideas I didn't add as bps
[12:07] <lool> Or merged into a single discussion
[12:07] <lool> One is about lpia
[12:07] <ogra> (got a topic name for the bot ?)
[12:07] <lool> [topic] uds sessions
[12:07] <lool> Or optional uds sessions
[12:07] <lool> s/optional/possible
[12:07] <ogra> [topic]  optional uds sessions
[12:07] <MootBot> New Topic:   optional uds sessions
[12:07] <lool> Ok
[12:08] <ogra> to late :)
[12:08] <lool> So one thing is I merged the "tool to upgrade from one arch to another" session into "lpia versus i386" which is about whether we keep lpia
[12:08] <StevenK> I've been thinking about that.
[12:08] <StevenK> I think we want a session to discuss lpia?
[12:08] <lool> Do you people think we should have two sessions on the two subjects, or that it's ok to proceed like this?
[12:09] <lool> StevenK: I filed an i386-vs-lpia one
[12:09] <ogra> i wonder if we really should discuss keep/drop of lpia
[12:09] <ogra> i think it would run fine alongside the existing x86 arch if we wouldnt have to touch any packages at all for lpia specifics
[12:09] <lool> ogra: At the very least, there's quite a list of tasks to gather if we decide to drop lpia
[12:10] <ogra> since in the end lpia boils down to toolchan and kernel optimizations only
[12:10] <ogra> the archive should solve tself if you take out the hildonization tasks
[12:10] <lool> Yes, but it needs maintenance over source packages: we have modified some debian packages to add lpia and new packages will be added
[12:11] <lool> ogra: Agreed
[12:11] <ogra> right, but thats the only task left
[12:11] <StevenK> lool: The kernel team might kill us
[12:11] <lool> ogra: But if lpia is not significantly faster, don't you think we should drop it?
[12:11] <ogra> so it might make sense to leave it idle and just make sure we rip out the specific hack/patches
[12:11] <lool> I heard many complaints about lpia in the kernel and OEM teams
[12:12] <ogra> well, we should determine how much work is actually left if its only archive admininstration for a self running arch
[12:12] <lool> To be honest, I don't think the kernel concerns would go away if we dropped lpia
[12:12] <ogra> i.e. adding Arch: lpia to packages
[12:12] <ogra> the archive itself shouldnt need much maintenance
[12:13] <lool> ogra: Running the buildds, giving back packages etc.; I think it ends up amounting to some expense to run the arch; cdimage is short on space too, and it's not clear why we'd buy a seed for this or that arch
[12:13] <StevenK> This should be discussed at UDS ... :-)
[12:13] <lool> say, why don't we have desktop lpia images and no i386 mid image
[12:13] <lool> StevenK: Good point
[12:14] <ogra> StevenK, well, we need to find a base for discussion :) but yes, detalis should be at UDS
[12:14] <lool> So my gut feeling is that we might lean towards dropping lpia; but in all cases: do we want to discuss the arch conversion separately or as part of lpia vs i386 discussions?
[12:14] <StevenK> I'm happy that it's spec'd.
[12:14] <StevenK> Let's discuss that during the time slot
[12:14]  * ogra would merge it 
[12:14] <StevenK> If we have the time to do it then, do it then
[12:14] <lool> http://wiki.debian.org/ArchTakeover
[12:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.debian.org/ArchTakeover
[12:14] <lool> Ok, then it's merged
[12:14] <StevenK> If not
[12:15] <ogra> ... we'll have another slot :)
[12:15] <StevenK> Right
[12:15] <StevenK> We can always reschedule it again
[12:15] <ogra> oh, sweet, you cover arm vs armel there as well :)
[12:16] <lool> the other thing I wanted to ask is about a hildon session; I wanted to have one but the hildon schedule slipped a little
[12:16]  * ogra likes that
[12:16] <ogra> you mean upstream ?
[12:16] <lool> Still they announced a SDK in november as planned
[12:16] <lool> http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/b417b43eb57011dd9edafbe56a658d758d75/
[12:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/b417b43eb57011dd9edafbe56a658d758d75/
[12:16] <lool> Yes
[12:16] <lool> Also, we usually don't discuss packaging of new GNOMEs, so I wasn't sure whether we wanted a session on the new hildon
[12:17] <ogra> well, to get an overview it would help
[12:17] <ogra> the clutter integration etc are big steps upstream
[12:17] <lool> Ok; so perhaps I should add a bp for a discussion around hildon 2.2
[12:17] <ogra> would make sense to have some time to look into that ... informational though
[12:18] <lool> That's all I had for UDS sessions
[12:18] <ogra> do we have any plans for mid on arm ? should we discuss something like that ?
[12:19] <ogra> existing devices usually only have 128M ... people that have such thingies wont use ubuntu-desktop on tehm
[12:19] <ogra> (nor -umpc which is similar resource greedy)
[12:20] <ogra> mid sees the only official setup we can provide for such devices atm
[12:20] <ogra> though our arm work isnt focused on mobile at all
[12:20] <lool> ogra: Oh right, I mentionned that on IRC
[12:20] <lool> and didn't bring it up formally here
[12:21] <lool> For armel, I know we aim at building desktop, and perhaps server images
[12:21] <ogra> right, thats what i mean
[12:21] <lool> Even if I'm not sure how useful the former will be on the RAM constraints
[12:21] <lool> But we didn't discuss porting of other images yet
[12:21] <lool> It'd seem most useful to offer the mid/mobile/umpc/netbook images on armel!
[12:21] <ogra> the packages will be there anywaay
[12:22] <ogra> shoud be cheap to roll (inofficial at least) images
[12:22] <lool> This is going to be across the ubuntu-mobile and ubuntu-arm efforts, I think these complement themselves well here
[12:22] <lool> ogra: Well it's probably easy to enable them but what about testing and cdimage space?
[12:23] <lool> I think we were stretched thing on testing for intrepid and fear it will worsen if we try to test armel images on multiple hardware
[12:23] <ogra> cdimage doesnt cost much afaik, releases.u.c is the expensive part
[12:23] <lool> And what about image build time?  is that a concern nowadays?
[12:23] <ogra> well, thats why i said unofficial :)
[12:24] <ogra> i doubt that it affects the builds ...
[12:24] <lool> I don't like releasing more images if we don't QA them; the value is in the quality of the result IMHO
[12:24] <ogra> it will affect the arm specific machines only
[12:24] <StevenK> releases isn't expensive
[12:24] <ogra> the heavy part is the livefs building
[12:24] <lool> ogra: AIUI, we need to build the livecd-rootfs on the buildds
[12:24] <ogra> StevenK, in terms of mirroring
[12:24] <lool> And it takes a while on i386 due to the number of images (IIUC)
[12:25] <ogra> we cant build arm livefs'es on the x86 buildds
[12:25] <ogra> thats what i mean
[12:25] <lool> StevenK: Not sure all mirrors can carry many more cd images
[12:25] <ogra> livefs builds will only hog arm machines
[12:25] <ogra> whoops, firefox crashed on me
[12:26] <lool> ogra: Precisely, but if the arm machines are slower, there might be a concern that building all images take 3 days (I'm exagerating of course)
[12:26] <lool> *exaggerating
[12:26] <ogra> well, if they are not rebuildign the whole archive they should be fine i assume
[12:26] <lool> Like if we need to reroll them like we had for the intrepid release
[12:27] <ogra> we should probably discuss and define a testphase at uds for this
[12:27] <ogra> helps also to get estimates for the normal images
[12:27] <lool> what do you mean with testphase?
[12:27] <ogra> build additional images for one or two alphas and measure times and loads
[12:28] <ogra> and the time we actually need to invest
[12:28] <lool> Oh ok
[12:28] <lool> Sure
[12:28] <ogra> and make a decision based on these numbers
[12:28] <lool> Is this something we want an UDS session on?
[12:29] <ogra> we should discuss it there, not necessarily something we need to book a session for imho
[12:29] <lool> Hmm ok
[12:29] <ogra> "dinner session"
[12:29] <ogra> :)
[12:29] <lool> Ah I have another unrelated topic
[12:30] <lool> Just a reminder that next week will be december
[12:30] <ogra> it think if we decide to have it and need to make plans we can schedule a session ad hoc
[12:30] <lool> I think StevenK is the next secretary -- correct?
[12:30] <ogra> yeah
[12:30] <lool> StevenK: roger?
[12:30] <ogra> i only have one set of ARs ahead :) phew ...
[12:30]  * lool will go for February muahahah
[12:30] <ogra> december will be mostly nothing
[12:31] <lool> StevenK: Do you copy?
[12:31] <ogra> UDS ... christmas break
[12:31] <lool> I think we're losing StevenK
[12:31] <StevenK> Hm?
[12:31] <StevenK> I am?
[12:31] <StevenK> Sorry
[12:31] <lool> StevenK: I think so?  persia wanted January
[12:31] <lool> (IIRC)
[12:31] <StevenK> Sounds right to me
[12:32] <ogra> StevenK, take it, its the easiest month :)
[12:32] <lool> Okay I don't have anything to bring up today
[12:32] <lool> +more
[12:32] <ogra> me neither
[12:32] <lool> Let's close at 13:31
[12:32] <ogra> yeah
[12:32] <lool> It's a 1331 time
[12:32] <ogra> going once
[12:32] <ogra> going twice ...
[12:32] <ogra> gong ... adjourned ...
[12:33] <ogra> #endmeeting
[12:33] <lool> ogra: thanks for chairing
[12:33] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:33.
[12:33] <ogra> bah that was 1333
[12:33] <StevenK> I suspect no meeting next week, or the week after?
[12:33]  * ogra is travelling
[12:33] <lool> Likely not indeed
[12:34] <ogra> do we all come to fosscamp ?
[12:34] <lool> StevenK: Problem is that while we'd have the time to, we're actually just before, just after, or in the middle of travel and also the times are crazy for west coast
[12:34] <lool> We could move the irc meeting to friday and some decent local time?
[12:34] <ogra> lets discuss with david at UDS :)
[12:35] <ogra> next week looks like we're all in the air anyway
[14:00] <Koon> Anyone around for the Java team meeting ?
[14:06] <Koon> I guess not.
[14:08] <Koon> OK, let's call the Java meeting off, for lack of participants. Next meeting will be Thu, Dec 4, 1400 UTC.
[14:09] <Koon> (and happy Thanksgiving)