=== sgtd_ is now known as sgtd === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik [06:53] http://www.oosms.com > Send Unlimited Free SMS to any mobile phone Worldwide! [06:54] hi [06:54] no spam here, thanks. [06:54] http://www.oosms.com > Send Unlimited Free SMS to any mobile phone Worldwide! [06:54] oh.. sorry [06:55] Especially not twice. [06:55] nor in any other #ubuntu channel. [06:55] sorry.. im new here [06:55] will not do it [06:55] * Hobbsee doesn't believe that... [06:55] could u let me know where else i can do that [06:55] spam the network? You can't. [06:56] decent classified [06:57] PriceChild: you missed one. [06:58] pow === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === _[PUPPETS]Gonzo is now known as [PUPPETS]Gonzo === _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council [11:59] hey [12:02] meeting? [12:03] ogra [12:03] yep [12:04] #startmeeting [12:04] Meeting started at 06:04. The chair is ogra. [12:04] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [12:04] ogra: Only the two of us so far [12:04] not true :) [12:04] StevenK, just joined [12:04] Oh right, I'm hiding joins here now [12:04] Did not [12:05] but it will be only us three [12:05] No wiki page I'm afraid [12:05] davidm should be up to his ears in turkey now and persia is vacating heavily i hope [12:05] Yup [12:06] right, no wikipage [12:06] I have a couple of topics I couldn't add to the agenda [12:06] But it's basically about UDS sessions [12:06] shoot then, since we dont seem to have anything special anyway [12:06] There are a couple of ideas I didn't add as bps [12:07] Or merged into a single discussion [12:07] One is about lpia [12:07] (got a topic name for the bot ?) [12:07] [topic] uds sessions [12:07] Or optional uds sessions [12:07] s/optional/possible [12:07] [topic] optional uds sessions [12:07] New Topic: optional uds sessions [12:07] Ok [12:08] to late :) [12:08] So one thing is I merged the "tool to upgrade from one arch to another" session into "lpia versus i386" which is about whether we keep lpia [12:08] I've been thinking about that. [12:08] I think we want a session to discuss lpia? [12:08] Do you people think we should have two sessions on the two subjects, or that it's ok to proceed like this? [12:09] StevenK: I filed an i386-vs-lpia one [12:09] i wonder if we really should discuss keep/drop of lpia [12:09] i think it would run fine alongside the existing x86 arch if we wouldnt have to touch any packages at all for lpia specifics [12:09] ogra: At the very least, there's quite a list of tasks to gather if we decide to drop lpia [12:10] since in the end lpia boils down to toolchan and kernel optimizations only [12:10] the archive should solve tself if you take out the hildonization tasks [12:10] Yes, but it needs maintenance over source packages: we have modified some debian packages to add lpia and new packages will be added [12:11] ogra: Agreed [12:11] right, but thats the only task left [12:11] lool: The kernel team might kill us [12:11] ogra: But if lpia is not significantly faster, don't you think we should drop it? [12:11] so it might make sense to leave it idle and just make sure we rip out the specific hack/patches [12:11] I heard many complaints about lpia in the kernel and OEM teams [12:12] well, we should determine how much work is actually left if its only archive admininstration for a self running arch [12:12] To be honest, I don't think the kernel concerns would go away if we dropped lpia [12:12] i.e. adding Arch: lpia to packages [12:12] the archive itself shouldnt need much maintenance [12:13] ogra: Running the buildds, giving back packages etc.; I think it ends up amounting to some expense to run the arch; cdimage is short on space too, and it's not clear why we'd buy a seed for this or that arch [12:13] This should be discussed at UDS ... :-) [12:13] say, why don't we have desktop lpia images and no i386 mid image [12:13] StevenK: Good point [12:14] StevenK, well, we need to find a base for discussion :) but yes, detalis should be at UDS [12:14] So my gut feeling is that we might lean towards dropping lpia; but in all cases: do we want to discuss the arch conversion separately or as part of lpia vs i386 discussions? [12:14] I'm happy that it's spec'd. [12:14] Let's discuss that during the time slot [12:14] * ogra would merge it [12:14] If we have the time to do it then, do it then [12:14] http://wiki.debian.org/ArchTakeover [12:14] LINK received: http://wiki.debian.org/ArchTakeover [12:14] Ok, then it's merged [12:14] If not [12:15] ... we'll have another slot :) [12:15] Right [12:15] We can always reschedule it again [12:15] oh, sweet, you cover arm vs armel there as well :) [12:16] the other thing I wanted to ask is about a hildon session; I wanted to have one but the hildon schedule slipped a little [12:16] * ogra likes that [12:16] you mean upstream ? [12:16] Still they announced a SDK in november as planned [12:16] http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/b417b43eb57011dd9edafbe56a658d758d75/ [12:16] LINK received: http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/b417b43eb57011dd9edafbe56a658d758d75/ [12:16] Yes [12:16] Also, we usually don't discuss packaging of new GNOMEs, so I wasn't sure whether we wanted a session on the new hildon [12:17] well, to get an overview it would help [12:17] the clutter integration etc are big steps upstream [12:17] Ok; so perhaps I should add a bp for a discussion around hildon 2.2 [12:17] would make sense to have some time to look into that ... informational though [12:18] That's all I had for UDS sessions [12:18] do we have any plans for mid on arm ? should we discuss something like that ? [12:19] existing devices usually only have 128M ... people that have such thingies wont use ubuntu-desktop on tehm [12:19] (nor -umpc which is similar resource greedy) [12:20] mid sees the only official setup we can provide for such devices atm [12:20] though our arm work isnt focused on mobile at all [12:20] ogra: Oh right, I mentionned that on IRC [12:20] and didn't bring it up formally here [12:21] For armel, I know we aim at building desktop, and perhaps server images [12:21] right, thats what i mean [12:21] Even if I'm not sure how useful the former will be on the RAM constraints [12:21] But we didn't discuss porting of other images yet [12:21] It'd seem most useful to offer the mid/mobile/umpc/netbook images on armel! [12:21] the packages will be there anywaay [12:22] shoud be cheap to roll (inofficial at least) images [12:22] This is going to be across the ubuntu-mobile and ubuntu-arm efforts, I think these complement themselves well here [12:22] ogra: Well it's probably easy to enable them but what about testing and cdimage space? [12:23] I think we were stretched thing on testing for intrepid and fear it will worsen if we try to test armel images on multiple hardware [12:23] cdimage doesnt cost much afaik, releases.u.c is the expensive part [12:23] And what about image build time? is that a concern nowadays? [12:23] well, thats why i said unofficial :) [12:24] i doubt that it affects the builds ... [12:24] I don't like releasing more images if we don't QA them; the value is in the quality of the result IMHO [12:24] it will affect the arm specific machines only [12:24] releases isn't expensive [12:24] the heavy part is the livefs building [12:24] ogra: AIUI, we need to build the livecd-rootfs on the buildds [12:24] StevenK, in terms of mirroring [12:24] And it takes a while on i386 due to the number of images (IIUC) [12:25] we cant build arm livefs'es on the x86 buildds [12:25] thats what i mean [12:25] StevenK: Not sure all mirrors can carry many more cd images [12:25] livefs builds will only hog arm machines [12:25] whoops, firefox crashed on me [12:26] ogra: Precisely, but if the arm machines are slower, there might be a concern that building all images take 3 days (I'm exagerating of course) [12:26] *exaggerating [12:26] well, if they are not rebuildign the whole archive they should be fine i assume [12:26] Like if we need to reroll them like we had for the intrepid release [12:27] we should probably discuss and define a testphase at uds for this [12:27] helps also to get estimates for the normal images [12:27] what do you mean with testphase? [12:27] build additional images for one or two alphas and measure times and loads [12:28] and the time we actually need to invest [12:28] Oh ok [12:28] Sure [12:28] and make a decision based on these numbers [12:28] Is this something we want an UDS session on? [12:29] we should discuss it there, not necessarily something we need to book a session for imho [12:29] Hmm ok [12:29] "dinner session" [12:29] :) [12:29] Ah I have another unrelated topic [12:30] Just a reminder that next week will be december [12:30] it think if we decide to have it and need to make plans we can schedule a session ad hoc [12:30] I think StevenK is the next secretary -- correct? [12:30] yeah [12:30] StevenK: roger? [12:30] i only have one set of ARs ahead :) phew ... [12:30] * lool will go for February muahahah [12:30] december will be mostly nothing [12:31] StevenK: Do you copy? [12:31] UDS ... christmas break [12:31] I think we're losing StevenK [12:31] Hm? [12:31] I am? [12:31] Sorry [12:31] StevenK: I think so? persia wanted January [12:31] (IIRC) [12:31] Sounds right to me [12:32] StevenK, take it, its the easiest month :) [12:32] Okay I don't have anything to bring up today [12:32] +more [12:32] me neither [12:32] Let's close at 13:31 [12:32] yeah [12:32] It's a 1331 time [12:32] going once [12:32] going twice ... [12:32] gong ... adjourned ... [12:33] #endmeeting [12:33] ogra: thanks for chairing [12:33] Meeting finished at 06:33. [12:33] bah that was 1333 [12:33] I suspect no meeting next week, or the week after? [12:33] * ogra is travelling [12:33] Likely not indeed [12:34] do we all come to fosscamp ? [12:34] StevenK: Problem is that while we'd have the time to, we're actually just before, just after, or in the middle of travel and also the times are crazy for west coast [12:34] We could move the irc meeting to friday and some decent local time? [12:34] lets discuss with david at UDS :) [12:35] next week looks like we're all in the air anyway === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council [14:00] Anyone around for the Java team meeting ? [14:06] I guess not. [14:08] OK, let's call the Java meeting off, for lack of participants. Next meeting will be Thu, Dec 4, 1400 UTC. [14:09] (and happy Thanksgiving) === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler === RainCT_ is now known as RainCT === _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde