kwwiiman, sometimes I think I could get a tan from my monitor00:00
_MMA_Im looking at addin' 2 more.00:08
_MMA_I just bought another GFX card to drive the other 2.00:08
kwwiiwell, with the two macs and the thinkpad I realized that the monitors are brighter than my lights in the roomo00:08
_MMA_I want to run 20",24",20".00:08
* _MMA_ hands Ken some shades.00:09
kwwiidude, my dad is going to drive up to san fran (from phoenix) during the UDS to see me00:13
kwwiinot sure whether to be touched or cry00:13
kwwiimy dad still has the laptop from his last job before he retired 15 years ago00:14
kwwiiI asked him if he had internet access and he told me he has his AOL if that is what I mean00:15
kwwiithis from the guy who was, to some extent, responsible for Unix at Bell Labs all those years ago00:15
_MMA_ha! Cool.00:16
_MMA_Man I wish I was going to this one. :(00:17
_MMA_kwwii: Can't sleep?00:18
kwwii_MMA_: nope, not sure what is up...I fell asleep reading a book earlier tonight and woke back up00:18
kwwiimy inner clock has gotten kinda messed up00:18
kwwiigetting used to being awake at the wierdest times00:19
_MMA_I'm just finishing up some Breathe work. Done pushing to BZR for now. Mostly placeholder kinda stuff.00:19
kwwiioh, yeah...let me check it out on the new computer00:20
_MMA_I gotta add some symlinking to the build script. Otherwise, I have redundant images.00:22
_MMA_And the folder icon needs sixe work.00:22
kwwiioh yeah, one thing about reflections and such in icons (like the folder)00:23
kwwiisome apps add a glow effect around icons00:23
kwwiiwhich would be totally messed up with any icon ending in transparency00:24
_MMA_The reflection is gone. Has been for some time.00:24
kwwiihrm, for some reason bzr is not playing nice here00:24
_MMA_I just didnt take it of the front page of the wiki.00:24
kwwiiahhh, I forgot to add my ssh key for this computer I guess00:25
_MMA_Shouldn't need it to just pull.00:25
kwwiiI do not have them on this computer already, need to branch them00:26
kwwiiI and I did a bzr launchpad-login without adding the key00:27
kwwiinow it works, just takes time00:29
kwwiiwhile I look at this stuff, check out the sounds in http://sinecera.de/DS_UBU_LIN.tar.bz200:32
kwwiihrm, the first thing I notice is that the small versions need work. There is no shame in changing the angle of view slightly for small icons (nothing too radical though, the basic look should be the same)00:34
kwwiithe remember, small icons will look different than the large sizes if they still look good00:34
kwwiiotherwise they will look like little small blurry things00:34
_MMA_Yep. I'd say half are from Oxygen ATM so let me know which ones you are talking about.00:34
kwwiithe text editor, for instance00:35
kwwiibascially, the apps at 16x16 need work00:35
kwwiitotem and rythmbox at 22x2200:36
kwwiimaybe text-editor too00:36
_MMA_I wanna be careful with the upstream app icons. I don't wanna screw with their branding too much.00:37
kwwiioh, I am not saying you couldn't make the icons work with the current designs00:37
kwwiithey just need work :-)00:38
kwwiimaking more contrast00:38
_MMA_sure, sure.00:38
kwwiiand more definite lines, etc00:38
* kwwii was an old-school pixel pusher00:38
_MMA_I'd be glad to see you help out. :)00:39
kwwiiI wish I could find the time00:39
kwwiirecently I have been working on the panel icons again00:39
_MMA_I think once I get placeholders there it will be easier to work on. Just grab and go. People can see what's done and refine.00:39
kwwiiyes, true00:39
kwwiithe small icons in oxygen were pretty much crap until david miller came along and starting working on them00:40
kwwiihe doesn't make many large icons but he made most of the small ones00:40
kwwiiit takes a totally different mindset than doing semi-photorealistic stuff00:40
_MMA_Alot of the mimes only have scaliable ans then 22x22/16x16. So I'm havin' to fill in the gaps.00:41
kwwiiwell, I am mainly talking about the 16 and 22 icons anyway00:45
kwwiibtw, don't worry about the guy who said it looks like mac00:50
kwwiijust ignore it00:50
kwwiianything else will just piss people off (even if you are right)00:50
_MMA_Oh I know. I just didn't feel like being quiet. Even if it was the "PC" thing to do. :P00:52
kwwiioh well, just called my mom for thanksgiving...time now for sleep01:36
kwwiinight all01:36
_MMA_Night Ken01:37
thorwil_MMA_, kwwii: i'm not only in favor of creating a moderated mailing list, i'm also in favor of closing the current one. or transforming it. that kindergarden is only a waste of time. even for the children ;)15:28
_MMA_thorwil: It's a hard thing to balance. Moderating the current one would be a pain and raise the barrier for entry for alot of people. Would also surely bee seen as elitist. I'm defiantly thinking of open a ML through Launchpad for Breathe so it can have a focused place in which to work. The signal to noise is just too much to deal with.15:55
thorwil_MMA_: elitism can be good ;)15:55
_MMA_I'd almost rename the current one to art-chat and make a modded one. In the end, I don't know the right answer.15:56
thorwil_MMA_: i'd say the forum is the right place for "art-chat"15:59
kwwiiI tried to get things changed but was ignored16:27
kwwiiie I tried to create a new moderated list but my request has been, until now, ignored for whatever reason16:28
thorwilkwwii: but i really think keeping an unmoderated list around would be a mistake. just take a handful of people of the current list out and all that is left would be blathering16:30
kwwiiI guess I could just make the current list moderated16:30
kwwiithorwil: sure, except every now and then someone talented comes along16:30
kwwiiwe still need some place for newbies, as painful as that can be16:31
thorwilkwwii: sure. but the current list will not help us to instill the right behavior and ideas in promising newcomers16:33
kwwiithorwil: true16:35
kwwiimaybe the best thing would be to make it a moderated list16:35
kwwiiit would cut a lot of people off, but maybe in doing so we could suggest other places for them to hold such discussion16:35
kwwii(the forum, ubuntu-art.org, etc.)16:36
thorwilbtw, i had to change plate names in the svg button template once more. just in case anyone reading here is going to use it :)16:39
kwwiihow well does that work so far?16:43
thorwilkwwii: this wel: http://www.gnome.org/~robsta/gtk-css-engine/screenshots/15-single-canvas.png16:44
kwwiithorwil: wow, that is pretty good progress16:44
kwwiiwhere is this hosted?16:45
thorwilgnome svn16:46
thorwilkwwii: was going to be on the bzr-playground of gnome, but Rob couldn't lock in there16:48
kwwiithorwil: cool, so you edit the theme.svg and make sure the id's in the svg match what is in the theme.css, right?16:50
thorwilkwwii: requires librsvg frsh from the repo, i think. havn't actually checked out anything, yet :}16:50
kwwiihrm, I will have to bug robsta about this16:50
thorwilkwwii: yes. using plates as in the single canvas icon workflow16:50
thorwilkwwii: wasn't robsta bugging _you_? ;)16:52
* thorwil tries to find the librsvg repo16:58
thorwilmust be http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/librsvg/trunk/16:59
kwwiithorwil: he never talked to me about this directly17:04
kwwiiI was talking to him because I was interested in teh gtk-css stuff17:04
kwwiihrm, it seems that robsta is offline :-(17:05
kwwiinot sure if I want to locally install a new librsvg without knowing the consequences first17:05
thorwilkwwii: ic. he mentioned a patch allowing to use a single svg as source and i asked him about that ... leading to me making a button template17:05
thorwilwill have to be build widget by widget17:05
kwwiiright, it seems like a pretty good start so far17:06
kwwiiit is very similar to the hildon stuff nokia did/does17:06
thorwilkwwii: Rob and I will be happy for any support you can offer :)17:06
thorwili might find out what the consequences of locally installing librsvg trunk are :)17:10
thorwilfirst i need gtk-doc :(17:10
thorwilthat means gtk-doc-tools. libcroco3-dev, libgsf-1-dev17:13
thorwilNo package 'libccss-cairo-1' found. gnarg17:24
kwwiiI wonder which versions are in jaunty already17:25
thorwillibccss-cairo-1 must be a typo of some kind, google doesn't know it17:25
kwwiior it is built by another package...or the 1 has been added somehow, or, or or17:26
thorwilkwwii: well, for inclusion in jaunty, things should be brought on their way early17:26
kwwiithorwil: right, I think getting in the pieces we need to work on this stuff now would be a good idea17:26
thorwilnow, a requirement for a package that doesn't exist at all (no google hits) is a first for me :}17:29
kwwiiyeah, that sounds pretty b0rked17:29
kwwiiahhh, maybe it is the libcss in the gtk-css engine code17:29
kwwiididn't they have something like that in there?17:30
kwwiiLibccss is required by the gtk-css-engine. It's available from http://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/ccss.git/ .17:30
kwwiifrom the readme17:30
thorwiloh, right17:31
thorwili should heed that files name, sometimes :)17:32
thorwilwhat the hell is the git equiv of "svn co"?17:38
thorwilah, git clone17:40
thorwileverything build and installed17:57
kwwiiwow, that seems to have went well :-)17:57
thorwilstill need to find out how to get that into Appearance17:58
_MMA_A HOWTO on the ML would be cool if its strait-forward.17:59
kwwiiyeah, I was just thinking that we should be documenting this process18:00
kwwiion the wiki would perhaps be better18:00
kwwiithen we could update it as things proceed without confusion18:00
kwwiioh well, /me cooks dinner (tortelloni alla panna and a green salad)18:00
thorwil_MMA_, kwwii: where on the wiki?18:01
_MMA_Hmm... Good question.18:01
_MMA_Ill be back. Gotta finish up cleaning.18:02
thorwili fail at making the theme selectable, anyway :)18:03
* thorwil -> dinner18:03
kwwiithorwil: I think you need to do something else to actually use the theme18:52
kwwiinot sure what though18:52
thorwilkwwii: robsta will know18:52
kwwiithorwil: right18:53
kwwiilol, the first and last team report was nov 200718:55
kwwiiok, I have now added a page under Documentation for the gtk css engine19:06
thorwilkwwii: cool. i made notes. will complete as soon as i know the last step :)19:07
kwwiithorwil: feel free to change that page however you see fit, I just wanted to get up the basics19:08
thorwilfinally something happens :)19:42
kwwiithorwil: did you get it working?20:07
thorwilkwwii: no. didn't even try. i added my notes to the wiki page and emailed rob :)20:08
kwwiiif you want to put the sources in /usr/src/ as you suggest you need a sudo before the svn checkout, or?20:09
kwwiiand isn't there some ./configure stuff missing? at each build ?20:10
_MMA_kwwii: Only on 1st pull and build.20:27
_MMA_Pullin' and building after that don't need it.20:28
_MMA_In my experience anyway.20:28
robstalooks like i missed thorwil :/20:42
thorwilrobsta: almost20:56
robstathorwil: got mail20:56
robstathorwil: if you have any questions, i'll check back in 15min or so20:58
thorwilrobsta: i'm about to leave, actually. hgope to see you tomorrow :)20:58
robstathorwil: ok, thanks for getting this started20:59
robstaor biting, actually :)20:59
thorwilrobsta: np. things seem to fall into place currently :)21:00
robstathorwil: will be back no monday, no computing on weekends21:00
thorwilkwwii: no, these ./autogen.sh do take care of configure, too. i know it isn't always the case21:01
thorwilrobsta: oh, ok21:01
robstathorwil: more like we are beating them into place21:01
thorwilkwwii: could be that i changed permissions on my /usr/src. can you check what is default for me?21:02
thorwilgotta go, good night! :)21:03
robstahi _MMA_21:16

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