[00:00] <popey> still not friendly
[00:00] <popey> anyway, i have the answer now
[00:00] <azeem> sorry
[00:00] <RAOF> There was a bit of talking past each other, yes.
[00:00] <RAOF> We don't think about the filename at all, so... :)
[00:32] <HoppingWombat> hello
[00:39] <mungewell> Hi. I'm attempting to remaster my own liveCD to be an absolute minimal system, with X include (attempting to make a Sugar/OLPC liveCD). My first attempt was to build on http://ubuntu-mini-remix.crealabs.it/ and add Sugar+X. This booted and started X but did not display GDM login (was installed), X would stop if I shut down GDM. Is this the best approach (if so what magic am I missing) or should I look to cut down one of the other Desktop LiveCDs. I
[00:45] <HoppingWombat> hello
[00:45] <HoppingWombat> are there any packages that someone knows of that are out of date??
[00:47] <HoppingWombat> or packages that need work
[00:49] <NCommander> bahaha
[00:49] <NCommander> Bandwidth
[00:51] <TheMuso> NCommander: lol
[00:52]  * NCommander is leeching from the neighbors
[00:52] <NCommander> Darn my cousins are their highspeedless way of life
[00:56] <TheMuso> NCommander: And what about your connection, or are you still not back home yet?
[00:56] <NCommander> Nope
[00:57] <NCommander> I'm trapped in the depths of North Carolina
[00:57] <NCommander> and have yet to find the escape hatch
[01:06] <soros> i wonder if its a safe move to include f-spot with the default install of ubuntu consider novell/miguel are conspiring with microsoft
[01:07] <soros> kind of dangerous IMHO
[01:07] <soros> I think mr. miguel makes a lot of money from that deal.
[01:11] <TheMuso> u/c
[01:11] <Hobbsee> soros: please note that propaganda is not welcome here.  Please see http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/22/mark-shuttleworth-on-patents/ for more information.
[01:11] <soros> sorry, I didn't know that was "propaganda" as you call it
[01:12] <soros> ya, just reading that article now
[01:12] <soros> "Our view is that we can deal with patent suits if they arise,"
[01:12] <soros> THAT'S REALLY FUCKING REASSURING
[01:12] <soros> Gimme a break.
[01:13] <soros> Whatever.  Later.
[01:13] <TheMuso> !ohmy
[01:13] <RAOF> Well, that's the way we deal with all the other software.
[01:13] <RAOF> soros: You probably mean well, but you're wrong, and we've heard it before.  There's little tolerance.
[01:13] <Hobbsee> RAOF: heh
[01:13] <directhex> welcome to my life, y'all :)
[01:13] <Hobbsee> RAOF: best solved with a +q on continuance?  :P
[01:14] <RAOF> Hobbsee: A what now?
[01:14] <directhex> you know this'll be on boycott-novell tomorrow, right?
[01:15] <RAOF> Aw, man. 3rd comment on that article is a wonderful case study.
[01:15] <RAOF> directhex: Maybe I can be famous too?
[01:15] <Hobbsee> RAOF: an IRC quiet.  It's a great tactic.
[01:15] <Hobbsee> (stops them sending to the channel, basically)
[01:16] <Hobbsee> they can rant all they want, but no one sees it
[01:16] <Hobbsee> (or only some do, depending on the modes)
[01:16] <RAOF> Mmm.  Nifty.
[01:16] <Hobbsee> very :)
[01:17] <Hobbsee> RAOF: often they're too annoyed to see the "cant' send to channel" messages, which often go to the status window anyway, so they continue, but notice no one is responding to them, and eventually quit due to that.
[01:17] <Hobbsee> (and don't bother coming back on the same issue, as they perceived that they were ignored)
[01:18] <RAOF> Muchos win.
[01:19] <Hobbsee> indeed1
[01:20]  * RAOF loves that the most strident argument on that comment thread is "mono shouldn't by default create files called foo.dll"
[01:20] <directhex> which comment thread?
[01:20] <Hobbsee> directhex: my link above - it has comments at the bototm
[01:20] <directhex> ah
[01:20]  * Hobbsee didn't see them the first time either
[01:20] <ajmitch> because the last few characters really matter
[01:20] <directhex> you want an *actual* joke? a real one?
[01:20] <RAOF> Clearly an indication of mono's technical inferiority!
[01:21] <directhex> do a search on http://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/openoffice.org for "32"
[01:23] <RAOF> Oh my.
[01:23] <RAOF> Why?
[01:24] <RAOF> Dear lord.  The _other_ 32 is down the bottom, in the file sizes.  320Mb of source seems excessive.  As does an 84Mb gzipped diff.
[01:26] <RAOF> directhex: Is that a real build-dependency?
[01:26] <directhex> RAOF, yes indeedy
[01:27] <directhex> RAOF, required for the java macro layer, would you believe
[01:55] <ardchoille> I just did a kernel update on Intrepid and memtest and recovery mode have been removed. Is this normal? What happens if I put memtest and recovery mode back in?
[01:55] <RAOF> Compiz would be substantially cooler if the nvidia drivers didn't feel the need to hard-lock every couple of days.
[01:56] <ardchoille> s/removed/removed from menu.lst/
[01:56] <RAOF> ardchoille: That sounds like a bug.  Feel like pastebinning your menu.lst?
[01:56] <ardchoille> sure, hold on
[01:58] <ardchoille> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/77588/
[01:59] <ardchoille> RAOF: Just did the kernel upgrade after reading this: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-679-1
[02:01] <RAOF> ardchoille: You've explicitly asked for no recovery mode or memtest entries in that menu.lst.
[02:01] <RAOF> ardchoille: Specificly, you've set "# alternative = false" and "# memtest86 = false"
[02:01] <ardchoille> RAOF: I don't remember asking that, I did, however, "install the package maintainers version" when prompted, but I made a backup before that so I still have menu.lst.backup
[02:02] <RAOF> Hm.
[02:02] <ardchoille> RAOF: Ah, ok, I see that now, yes, I did set those a while ago
[02:02] <ardchoille> I need to change those back to true
[02:02] <ardchoille> but that won't get the recovery mode and memtest back into menu.lst
[02:03] <Hobbsee> unless you update grub, presumably.
[02:03] <RAOF> Right.  But it'll tell update-grub to add them next time it runs.
[02:03] <ardchoille> Hobbsee: ah, yes, thank you
[02:03] <ardchoille> ok, was just a bit worried.
[02:03] <ardchoille> although I've never used memtest or recovery mode
[02:05] <ardchoille> is it ok to just copy/paste the info from menu.lst.backup into menu.lst and just change the kernel version? is uuid the same?
[02:05] <RAOF> The UUID will be the same, yes.  That's kinda the point :)
[02:05] <ardchoille> ok
[02:05] <ardchoille> Thanks RAOF , Hobbsee
[02:27] <amikrop> Hello. I have this URL: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gemrb What files I need from there, in order to build a binary package?
[02:28] <Hobbsee> cross-posting FTW?
[02:28] <Hobbsee> amikrop: 1,2,4.
[02:30] <amikrop> Hobbsee: I am sorry
[02:30] <amikrop> Hobbsee: Thank you. How would I actually vuild the binary package?
[02:30] <amikrop> * build
[02:31] <RAOF> dpkg-buildpackage is the traditional method.
[02:31] <RAOF> Or debuild.
[02:32] <amikrop> RAOF: aha which files, though?
[02:32] <RAOF> Or even just calling "fakeroot debian/rules binary", which is what dpkg-buildpackage does eventually anyway.
[02:32] <amikrop> ok
[02:33] <RAOF> Once you have the source package - generally there'll be 3 files here - foo.dsc, foo.orig.tar.gz, and foo.diff.gz - you unpack the source with "dpkg-source -x foo.dsc", giving you an unpacked source directory.
[02:33] <RAOF> Running 'dpkg-buildpackage' in that directory will build the binary package(s).
[02:34] <amikrop> RAOF: thanks :)
[02:38] <amikrop> Why do I get this?
[02:38] <amikrop> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: cdbs autotools-dev dpatch
[02:38] <amikrop> dpkg-buildpackage: warning: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.
[02:39] <amikrop> And how can I fix it?
[02:39] <RAOF> Because you don't have the needed build dependencies.  Specifically, the 'cdbs', 'autotools-dev' and 'dpatch' packages.
[02:39] <RAOF> Installing all of those will make it build.  Assuming the package's build-dependencies are correct, of course.
[02:41] <amikrop> I see. Thank you :-)
[02:49] <TheMuso> Hrm apt-get seems to have a weird issue with multiple source packages with linux at the beginning of the name. I attempt to apt-get source the linux package, yet it grabs linux-meta. (I know linux is in git.)
[02:51] <Mithrandir> it looks at binary packages too
[02:51] <Mithrandir>      linux | 2.6.27.7.11 | jaunty/restricted | amd64, i386
[02:51] <Mithrandir> I suspect that's from l-m
[02:52] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: I think thats whats going on.
[02:52] <TheMuso> Anyway, using a specific version worked around it.
[04:33] <TheMuso> c
[05:21] <[Relic]> What time is pitti usually awake?
[05:22] <StevenK> Not for at least an hour
[05:23] <[Relic]> wanted to test the coretemps for 64bit 8.04 but the proposed? kernel won't successfully boot
[05:24] <[Relic]> just wondering how often that is updated
[06:16] <sowmi652> hi
[06:27] <pitti> Good morning
[06:27] <pitti> [Relic]: hi
[06:27] <pitti> [Relic]: oh, I'm just the sru processing monkey, so I'm afraid I won't be able to discuss kernel patches with you
[06:28] <pitti> [Relic]: which version did you test, -23.46 already?
[06:29] <pitti> wgrant: LP API> yes, that'd be a first-time problem
[06:29] <pitti> directhex: found a sponsor for mono-tools yet? If not, where's the source.changes for me to grab?
[06:31] <pitti> [Relic]: ah, you can't possibly have tested -23 yet, that's still in the NEW queue; then we don't actually *have* a hardy-proposed kernel to test ATM
[06:39] <[Relic]> think it was 22 that won't boot
[06:49] <pitti> [Relic]: that's a serious problem then; did you file a bug about it?
[06:52] <[Relic]> not as such hard to do w/o good copy paste (console), will try later and see what the error was it was missing some file or directory at the time of or right after eth0 was being set up
[06:54] <pitti> [Relic]: you can use a digital camera
[06:54] <pitti> [Relic]: but -21 boots fine?
[06:55] <[Relic]> yep
[06:55] <[Relic]> nscd?
[06:56] <dholbach> good morning
[06:56]  * pitti hugs dholbach
[06:56] <[Relic]> wonder if there is a boot log somewhere
[06:57]  * dholbach hugs pitti back
[07:47] <pitti> tkamppeter: \o/ your recent int -> char fix for powerpc also fixed cups on mips/mipsel in Debian (last outstanding RC bug)
[07:47] <cjwatson> directhex: done your mono-tools stuff and the libmono-webbrowser/mozilla promotion/demotion
[07:51] <pitti> StevenK: still filing sync bugs? :-) You can just do them, with probably even fewer keystrokes
[07:58] <StevenK> pitti: I thought we needed the paper trail
[07:59] <pitti> StevenK: hm, nobody complained to me so far about the lack of it
[07:59] <tkamppeter> pitti, great, then I only need to do the official release of Foomatic 4.0 and Debian will get the next distro with PDF printing workflow.
[08:00] <tkamppeter> pitti, but why is the fix in pdftopdf relevant for an RC bug? Does this go into Lenny?
[08:00] <pitti> tkamppeter: no, it only applied to experimental
[08:00] <pitti> tkamppeter: the test suite failed on mipsen
[08:01] <tkamppeter> But why RC (release candidate)?
[08:01] <pitti> "release critical"
[08:12] <bradh79> hi
[08:12] <bradh79> is there a ubuntu help channel?
[08:14] <pitti> bradh79: yes, try #ubuntu
[08:16] <bradh79> thanks
[08:16] <bradh79> i cant get my dual displays to work :(
[08:26] <directhex> cjwatson, thank you!
[09:54]  * apw wonders if we keep historical information on the load on our buildd's, a pretty graph showing the queue length or average build delay or something over time is what i see in my mind ??
[09:54] <directhex> apw, sounds neat
[10:30] <directhex> can a nice friendly archive admin tickle the NEW queue a little for mono-tools 2.0-0ubuntu1 ?
[10:30] <pitti> I just cleaned it an hour ago
[10:31] <pitti> litter lout... *tsk*
[10:31]  * pitti hugs directhex, will do
[10:31] <directhex> thanks pitti :)
[10:31] <directhex> pitti, does removig a source package require explicit action from an archive admin, or will it happen by itself if removed from sid?
[10:32] <pitti> directhex: should the new binaries (gendarme and mono-profiler) go to universe?
[10:32] <StevenK> It requires an archive admin to do it
[10:32] <pitti> directhex: the former
[10:32] <pitti> directhex: most of sid removals are caught by a tool called "process-removals", which I run regularly
[10:32] <directhex> pitti, they're both useful dev tools, but yes, i think universe is the right place for them
[10:32] <pitti> directhex: but for some reason it doesn't catch all of them, so better file a bug
[10:35] <pitti> there, NEW queue is down to zero again
[10:36] <directhex> hurrah \o/
[10:36]  * Hobbsee quickly uploads more crack.
[10:36]  * directhex files an RM;RoM bug first, so he can link it to LP
[10:37]  * Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee 
[10:37]  * Hobbsee stomps on Mithrandir's feet
[10:37] <Mithrandir> good thing I'm levitating?
[10:38]  * Hobbsee switches off the levitation machine, then stomps on Mithrandir's feet again
[10:38]  * Hobbsee muhahaha
[10:38] <Mithrandir> it's not a machine, it's magic
[10:39]  * Hobbsee switched off that too
[10:39] <simira> hey, no switching on my boyfriend please!
[10:40] <StevenK> simira: s/on/off/ ?
[10:41] <simira> StevenK: I'll look to turn him on myself when he gets home!
[10:41] <StevenK> That's a little too much information
[10:41] <StevenK> :-P
[10:42] <Hobbsee> hey there simira!
[10:43] <simira> hi Hobbsee
[10:45] <simira> StevenK: you asked ;)
[10:48]  * Hobbsee notes the extended silence, after that.
[10:48]  * Mithrandir ruffles simira 
[10:55] <directhex> okay, who do i subscribe to an RM bug then?
[10:55] <directhex> is there an archive-admins or something i should sub?
[10:55] <pitti> directhex: ubuntu-archive, please
[10:56] <directhex> done. cheers pitti
[11:46] <StevenK> mvo: I'm seeing a strange apt bug, can I prod you about it?
[12:00] <RicardoPerez> mvo: ping
[12:16] <RicardoPerez> mvo: can you please take a look at bug #156278? it's not fixed for me today
[13:01] <mvo> hello StevenK, sorry for the slow reply. sure, what is the issue?
[13:02] <mvo> RicardoPerez: thanks, looking
[13:02] <asac> pitti: NM SRU needs a push to -proposed. *hug*
[13:04] <StevenK> mvo: apt looks to hang on concordia after it finishes downloading
[13:04] <mvo> StevenK: oh, what version of apt/distro is running there? anything interessting in strace?
[13:15] <asac_> reconnect
[13:15] <asac_> pitti: btw, I moved your HUAWEI (option) registration issue to bug 303142 ... in case you want to verify on your own
[13:16] <asac_> (your comments were posted to 290177 ... but initial reporter says he sees something different)
[13:21] <mvo> RicardoPerez: do you have intrepid-proposed enabled?
[13:22] <StevenK> mvo: It's a buildd machine, so nothing like that. I was curious if you'd heard about the bug
[13:23] <mvo> StevenK: I heard of issues on the livefs builder (from cody-somerville), I was never able to reproduce it but but something that *might* fix it into recent version (I think intrepid).
[13:24] <StevenK> mvo: It's in a Jaunty chroot
[13:24] <mvo> StevenK: hrm, bad
[13:25] <mvo> StevenK: I would like to investigate, let me check if I have access
[13:25] <blip-> hi, i have a general question for learning purposes... why would ubuntu 8.04 put firefox3 extensions in their repos when you can just get the extensions from the ext mirror of mozilla and it's already cross-distro.... ?
[13:26] <blip-> for example there is the all-in-one-sidebar
[13:26] <directhex> blip-, makes it easier for deploying images, fr'example
[13:28] <blip-> images as in a dd or other clone of a parition/OS  ?    directhex
[13:28] <pitti> asac: oooh! will process
[13:29] <pitti> asac: right, understood
[13:29] <directhex> blip-, as in non-clone os deployment (such as for imaging an entire classroom)
[13:30] <directhex> and means root can mandate extensions to install, rather than ~/.mozilla
[13:30] <blip-> ah i see,    makes sense,  thanks directhex
[13:32] <asac> pitti: great
[13:36] <directhex> oh no, boycottnovell's stuck a "REMOVE TEH MONOZ" entry onto ubuntu brainstorm. that's gonna get modded up in its thousands by roy's goons -_-
[13:37] <ogra> directhex, i would ask to remove it as spam
[13:38] <thekorn> #leonov
[13:38] <ogra> oh, he didnt write "REMOVE TEH MONOZ" literally :)
[13:52] <RicardoPerez> mvo: No, I haven't enabled the intrepid-proposed
[13:53] <mvo> RicardoPerez: could you please check if that makes a difference? there was a mistake in the intrepid universe upload and the data was a couple of month old
[13:53] <mvo> :(
[13:53] <mvo> but it should be fixed in -proposed (and -updates soon)
[13:54] <RicardoPerez> mvo: of course, I'll check now. What packages may I install then?
[13:54] <mvo> RicardoPerez: just enabling -proposed and apt-get update should work (hopefully :)
[13:55] <RicardoPerez> mvo: you are right! that solves the problem!
[13:57] <RicardoPerez> mvo: that solves the problem in gnome-games (main) and amsn (universe)
[13:58] <mvo> RicardoPerez: thanks! \o/
[13:58] <RicardoPerez> mvo: thanks to you! :)
[13:59] <RicardoPerez> mvo: I've updated the bugreport with the info you supplied
[13:59] <RicardoPerez> mvo: thanks again
[14:01] <mvo> thanks RicardoPerez, I will push it into -updates as soon as possible
[14:02] <RicardoPerez> mvo: great :)
[15:17] <asac> jdong: -> #ubuntu-mozillateam ;)
[15:25] <amikrop> Hello. I have Automatic Login enabled for my user. When I try to SVN Update with RapidSVN, to a repository that needs my RSA key, I am asked for my password. What Can I do to skip that everytime? I have installed libmap-keyring and put the @include line in /etc/pam.d/gdm but I have realised I don't have a ~/.gnome2/keyrings/default.keyring but only a ~/.gnome2/keyrings/login.keyring Any help, please?
[15:26] <directhex> amikrop, there's no *secure* way. does that bother you?
[15:26] <ogra> amikrop, #ubuntu for support
[15:26] <amikrop> directhex: no, it doesn't
[15:26] <ogra> (see /topic)
[15:26] <amikrop> directhex: I just need an automatic way
[15:27] <directhex> yeah, offtopic. but set your default keyring to a blank password in Passwords & Encryption Keys, that ought to allow password saving on an autologin account
[15:28] <amikrop> directhex: That's the strange fact: I don't have a default keyring
[15:29] <amikrop> As I said above I *lack* the file ~/.gnome2/keyrings/default.keyring
[15:30] <amikrop> directhex: Should I create one? If yes, maybe I could set the password same to my login password, because I did the libpam-keyring and @include trick, that automatically unlocks the default keyring at login, only if the password is the same as your login password.
[15:31] <amikrop> directhex: But the thing is, that 1) I have Automatic Login enabled, and 2) I don't seem to have a default keyring.
[15:31] <amikrop> directhex: What should I do?
[15:32] <directhex> amikrop, "<directhex> yeah, offtopic. but set your default keyring to a blank password in Passwords & Encryption Keys, that ought to allow password saving on an autologin account"
[15:32] <amikrop> directhex: I don't have a default keyring
[15:34] <directhex> passwords and Encryption Keys, Edit, Preferences, login, Change Unlock Password
[15:34] <directhex> the "default keyring" pulldown shjould be set to "login"
[15:34] <directhex> and that's MORE than enough support in #ubuntu-devel for now
[15:35] <amikrop> directhex: OK. Thank you.
[15:43] <fta> will we have sqlite 3.6.* ? i need 3.6.4 for mozilla products
[15:44] <pitti> fta: so far we just synced from Debian, since we didn't have a particular reason to update it ourselves
[15:44] <pitti> fta: so, the question shouldn't be "will we have", but "who can do that" :-)
[15:46] <fta> pitti, the reason moz wants that is that they are very actively working on sqlite now that is it used in their engine. 3.6 brings in a lot of perf improvements visible in firefox
[15:47] <ogra> fta, so the mozilla team is volunteering ? :)
[15:49] <fta> ogra, sure. i can prepare the package.
[15:49] <fta> for the records, upstream says "Version 3.6.6.2 of SQLite is recommended for all new development. Upgrading from versions 3.6.4 through 3.6.6 is strongly recommented."
[15:50] <fta> moz is currently using 3.6.4 in ff 3.1 b2
[15:50] <ogra> well, the prob eih what pitti said above is that debian is pretty stuck atm, waiting for lenny to get out the door ...
[15:50] <ogra> so i wouldnt expect it from debian soon
[15:51] <fta> ok, i'll do it then. we went ahead for cairo many times before so it's no different here
[15:52] <fta> pitti, btw, if you care to have a look (and want to make my day :)), ff3.1 and xul1.9.1 are now waiting in NEW
[15:55] <pitti> fta: why did the source package get a new name? shouldn't really just be a new version?
[15:56] <pitti> -1.9 and -1.9.1 as different package names really smell like overzealous versionitis
[15:56] <directhex> pitti, they're not compatible :)
[15:57] <directhex> pitti, 1.9.0.* is ff3 et al, 1.9.1.* is ff3.1 et al. different beasts
[15:57] <directhex> go mozilla!
[15:57] <pitti> directhex: that's what I was assuming
[15:57] <fta> and you care use them at the same time
[15:57] <pitti> sure, but we don't want to support two major versions in jaunty, just one
[15:58] <fta> once final 3.1 will replace 3.0, like 3.0 did for 2.0, the idea is to do a smooth transition in universe. not put a beta in main like for hardy. we learned our lesson
[15:58] <asac> pitti: only one will be in main. i dont plan to go for 3.1 by default before its final (dont want to have beta/rc fun again)
[15:59] <fta> -ed+t
[16:00] <pitti> well, the more people actually use 3.1, the more testing we get, no?
[16:00] <asac> pitti: yes. thats why i want it in the archive
[16:00] <pitti> or, the other way round, as long as 3.1 won't be the default, we'll get very little testing?
[16:00] <asac> pitti: also the package versioning stuff was exactly done for this reason
[16:01] <asac> pitti: no. when its in archive more people use it ... also it helps to test and verify bugs and stuff.
[16:01] <pitti> asac: right, but it should be the default version in jaunty right away
[16:01] <asac> pitti: no ... because its not given that it will be final for release
[16:02] <asac> (un)fortunately mozilla doesnt do strict time based releases
[16:02] <pitti> chicken-egg problem
[16:02] <pitti> no testers -> hard to do a good release
[16:02] <directhex> yay for chickens
[16:02] <asac> pitti: it helps us to hav that in universe ... we get more testing by advanced users
[16:02] <asac> which is what we want at this point
[16:03] <directhex> pitti, i think many of the most aggressive package users are the kind who will go out of their way to install 3.1 even if non-default
[16:03] <pitti> jaunty users *are* advanced users :)
[16:03] <asac> if we make it default we would probably get flooded in low-quality bugs again.
[16:03] <pitti> okay, your call
[16:03] <pitti> just wanted to explain my feelings about it
[16:04]  * directhex puts the demo app from webkit# into a package, proposes it as default
[16:04] <directhex> it might not accept enter keypresses ot plugins, but it looks good!
[16:04] <asac> pitti: yes, i would be more aggressive if i would be confident about the final release date.
[16:04] <pitti> asac: so, the new packages should go to universe for now then?
[16:04] <asac> yes please
[16:04] <fta> directhex, sounds like my chromium-browser package ;)
[16:05] <directhex> fta, well, it's a general webkit suckitude issue
[16:05]  * ogra waits for firefox-webkit ... :)
[16:05] <directhex> fta, i hear webkit-gtk patches are... not being applied
[16:05]  * ogra notices half the mozilla team is here and runs quickly
[16:05]  * asac waits for a working epiphany-webkit
[16:05] <pitti> ogra: ... with a safari theme?
[16:06] <directhex> ogra, all the power of webkit-gtk, all the grace and lightweight of XUL?
[16:06] <ogra> pitti, yay :)
[16:06] <pitti> directhex: *chuckle*
[16:06]  * directhex wonders whether pitti has received his angry phone call from nelson mandella yet
[16:07] <fta> ogra, it's not going to happen
[16:07] <pitti> directhex: he doesn't usually call me at this hour
[16:07] <directhex> pitti, the most epic piece of anti-mono-in-ubuntu-context hate i've ever seen, taken from the #boycottnovell irc channel logs: "[01:31] <Omar87> schestowitz: lol, ya know what? Even Nelson Mandela himself should protest of Ubuntu coming with Mono pre-installed and well-incorporated."
[16:08] <pitti> directhex: he's so right; we should really catch up with the time and support Stereo
[16:08] <amikrop> pitti: loool
[16:08] <directhex> pitti, stereo... as in 2.0?
[16:08] <directhex> \o/
[16:08]  * ogra is more quadrophonic nowadays 
[16:08] <pitti> as in "welcome to the sound of the 1960's!"
[16:08] <amikrop> :P
[16:08] <directhex> ogra, quadrophonic? sounds like someone wants 2.2!
[16:09] <ogra> :)
[16:09]  * directhex looks at http://mono.ximian.com/mono-packagers/mono-2.2.tar.bz2 and ponders
[16:10] <pitti> fta: hm, shouldn't xulrunner have a versioned libsqlite3-dev build-dep then? I thought you said it needs (>= 3.6.4)?
[16:18] <asac> pitti: nope
[16:18] <pitti> asac: is xulrunner-1.9.1 and firefox-3.1 in fact using the very same tarball? (mozilla-central-3.1~b2+build1-source.tar.bz2)
[16:18] <asac> pitti: we auto detect the version and dont use system-sqlite if its too old
[16:18] <pitti> and just built differently?
[16:18] <pitti> asac: ah, that's done at ./configure? okay then
[16:18] <asac> pitti: we dont add versioned depends on such libs to easy backportability
[16:19] <pitti> but yes, if that ships its own internal copy, then it's definitively better to use the system one and update that
[16:19] <asac> pitti: yes. some magic in rules ... we do it for a bunch of libs ... and doesnt matter because the major version usually doesent change for a release
[16:19] <asac> pitti: we cannot follow bleeding edge mozilla on eeverything
[16:19] <asac> pitti: sqlite is an exception. in fact we shouldnt use other versions than they do
[16:19] <asac> pitti: because they do severe performance testings
[16:20] <pitti> asac: exception in what way?
[16:20] <pitti> I don't see anything wrong with updating the sqlite3 source to 3.6.4
[16:20] <asac> pitti: if you remember the performance threats for jaunty ... there was a benchmark for which sqlite wsa much slower
[16:20] <asac> thats because we use whatever debian used
[16:20] <asac> (its sometimes a 3 fold performance difference you get in minor versions)
[16:21] <pitti> yes, sure, you're preaching to the choir :)
[16:21] <pitti> I just said I'd much rather update the system lib than ship newer internal copies
[16:21] <asac> pitti: yes sure. firefox 3.0 will go to 3.6.4 after next release
[16:21] <asac> there is a regression they cannot accept in their stable branches
[16:22] <asac> but it should be good for jaunty
[16:22] <asac> pitti: we ship the upstream tarball. ... we do that for plenty other libs. following mozilla trunk on system libs would be too much work imo.
[16:22] <asac> once they settle on something we (mozillateam) will ensure there are more libs
[16:23] <asac> from system
[16:24] <asac> pitti: so in short: system libs preferred -> yes. but we should try to target what is currently in xulrunner version that is in main.
[16:27] <asac> pitti: on tarballs: i thin they are currently more or less the same. but thats not the long term idea. its mostly due to some technical constraints of hg ... but we will hopefully be able to strip unneeded stuff from firefox tarball like we did for 3.0
[16:28] <pitti> asac: yeah, I figured; I was just curious
[16:28] <pitti> I thought the projects were completely split upstream now
[16:28] <asac> its just that our "tarball creator" code is not yet able to do that
[16:28] <asac> pitti: upstream has no clue about splitting ;)
[16:28] <pitti> asac: merging distinct upstream projects together apparently works very well, though :-P
[16:28] <asac> pitti: thunderbird 3.0 ships complete mozilla-central + a comm-central repo ... which also has copies from mozilla-central
[16:28] <pitti> brb
[16:29] <asac> pitti: i think its their principal to have everything in one repo
[16:29] <asac> instead provide a mega-complicated custom build thing ;)
[16:33] <pitti> asac: yes, because pkg_config for external libraries is way too hard :)
[16:39]  * fta back
[16:52] <fta> pitti, thanks:
[16:52] <fta> ^:^!
[17:41] <pwnguin> i came across an interesting post on ubuntu weblogs, claiming that the trademark policy restricts the distribution of laptops with ubuntu installed
[17:42] <hyperair> pwnguin: link?
[17:42] <pwnguin> http://www.loopbacking.info/blog/2008/11/28/ubuntu-tips/
[17:43] <hyperair> pwnguin: thanks. that's rather interesting. seems a little baseless though. no proof given
[17:44] <pwnguin> the page itself is fairly straightforward
[17:44] <pwnguin> Permission from us is necessary to use any of the Trademarks under any circumstances other than those specifically permitted above. These include:
[17:44] <pwnguin>     *
[17:44] <pwnguin>       Any commercial use
[17:45] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, I'm pretty sure Canonical licenses the trademark to vendors ;]
[17:45] <pwnguin> for how much?
[17:46] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, If you're interested in purchasing a license, e-mail trademarks@canonical.com :)
[17:46] <pwnguin> im not, but it seems counterproductive
[17:47] <RainCT> pwnguin: why? vendors could ship crappy versions of Ubuntu
[17:47] <pwnguin> no they cant
[17:47] <RainCT> pwnguin: of course they can, it's FLOSS
[17:47] <RainCT> so they can break it as much as they want :)
[17:48] <pwnguin> derived works is a seperate clause
[17:48] <RainCT> ah okay, I didn't say anything then :)
[17:48] <pwnguin> which nobody pays attention to anyways
[17:48] <pwnguin> fluxbuntu, mythbuntu, gobuntu etc
[17:48] <RainCT> pwnguin: gobuntu was from Canonical ;)
[17:49] <pwnguin> i know, even they dont listen to themselves ;)
[17:49] <RainCT> but yeah, you're right
[17:49] <RainCT> lol
[17:50] <pwnguin> even the point of the guy's post was that the restriction just drives them to use infralinux instead of ubuntu
[17:52] <nxvl> but there are a lot of vendors shipping laptops without canonical being involved
[17:52] <nxvl> but most of them contact canonical for hardware support
[17:52] <nxvl> as they do for windows
[17:54] <pwnguin> indeed, reality and the policy don't quite match
[17:55] <nxvl> yup
[17:56] <nxvl> it's just for using it in the case that is really contraproducent for canonical/ubuntu
[17:56] <nxvl> if not, there is no problem
[17:56] <pwnguin> not quite true
[17:56] <nxvl> it's even better for canonical that they ship, so they can contact the vendor and sell them support and hw certification
[17:57] <pwnguin> if people who would ship ubuntu don't out of respect for written policy, there is a problem.
[17:58] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, I'm sure if Canonical identifies it as a problem, they'll deal with it :)
[19:14] <jeanphilippe> I'm doing a project at school, is someone willing to help?
[19:14] <directhex> depends on what. there may be better places to ask
[19:14] <jeanphilippe> Building a linux-distro from source-code
[19:15] <jeanphilippe> I thought of openSUSE, but gobuntu would be fine to
[19:15] <jeanphilippe> too*
[19:15] <directhex> you want to build a distro from source?
[19:16] <directhex> what's your native language?
[19:16] <jeanphilippe> yes. Compile it and making an iso of it
[19:16] <jeanphilippe> Swedish
[19:17] <hyperair> take gentoo
[19:17] <hyperair> everything's compiled from source
[19:17] <directhex> jeanphilippe, for a complete from-scratch bootstrap, you want Linux From Scratch or Gentoo
[19:17] <directhex> jeanphilippe, both have detailed guides, from first principles
[19:19] <jeanphilippe> How do ubuntu-developers do when they make their distribution?
[19:22] <directhex> jeanphilippe, use the stable grounding of an older version, and work from there!
[19:26] <jeanphilippe> I'll try gentoo
[19:27] <jeanphilippe> I've tried rock linux, which sucked
[19:30] <DktrKranz> TheMuso (or any available sponsor for main), mind looking at debdiff in bug 302251? Thanks.
[20:23] <HoppingWombat> hello
[20:24] <HoppingWombat> is anyone available?
[20:26] <directhex> not for support
[20:27] <HoppingWombat> not requesting support ...
[20:48] <slangasek> pitti: ppa version of hal installed, detecting the kill switch works fine, tap0 handling is still insane. :)
[21:50] <lool> siretart_: Blah xine-lib is in pieces in jaunty; it's the victim of 3 API changes already
[22:11] <lool> Now only need to push to my ppa
[22:55] <TheMuso> DktrKranz: re libcanberra, uploaded, thanks.