=== chuck_ is now known as zul
=== jussio1 is now known as jussi01
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
ubottuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 02 Dec 16:00: Server Team | 02 Dec 17:00: Kernel Team | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team10:52
elkbuntuhi lifeless.11:20
lifelessare we meeting?11:20
lifelessor am I time-confused11:20
elkbuntui'm not sure. there's nobody on our agenda page11:21
lifelessshort meeting then11:21
elkbuntuin absence of quorum or applicants, i'm inclined to close it.11:21
elkbuntuand try finish my talk for thursday.11:22
=== lamont` is now known as lamont
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
nijaba@now paris15:35
ubottuCurrent time in Europe/Paris: December 02 2008, 16:35:01 - Next meeting: Server Team in 24 minutes15:35
=== tritium_ is now known as tritium
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 17:00: Kernel Team | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team
* mathiaz waves15:59
zulyarp yarp16:00
sommerhey all16:01
jjessetime to get started?16:01
mathiazall right folks!16:01
JontheEchidnaScottK-laptop: Hi, apachelogger had to go to the hospital because his bf got in a car accident16:01
mathiazlet's get this started16:01
MootBotMeeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.16:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:01
mathiazwelcome to the Server Team meeting!16:01
mathiazstarring... well a lot of interesting people! :)16:01
mathiaztoday's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting16:02
mathiazwe've got plenty of things to cover this week!16:02
ScottK-laptopmathiaz: Did you get my ping about going first?16:02
ScottK-laptopI can make it quick.16:02
mathiazScottK-laptop: hm - I didn't get your ping16:02
ScottK-laptopI've only got about 20 minutes and then I need to go.16:03
mathiazScottK-laptop: oh ok.16:03
mathiaz[TOPIC] KDE mysql needs for Jaunty16:03
MootBotNew Topic:  KDE mysql needs for Jaunty16:03
ScottK-laptopKDE has two major packages that use mysql.16:03
ScottK-laptopakonadi and amarok.16:04
ScottK-laptopJontheEchidna is here also from the Kubuntu team to help me discuss16:04
mathiazScottK-laptop: right - I ran into akonadi when I developer the apparmor profile16:04
mathiazScottK-laptop: I had some dicussion with the upstream devs about it also.16:04
mathiazScottK-laptop: IIRC you introduced me to them16:05
ScottK-laptopI wanted to coordinate early to ensure that our mysql packages work with akonadi so we don't have code copies.16:05
mathiazScottK-laptop: IIRC the current situation is that akonadi starts its own mysql process16:05
ScottK-laptophttp://paste.ubuntu.com:80/79351/ has some background.16:05
MootBotLINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/79351/ has some background.16:05
ScottK-laptopJontheEchidna: Jump in any time.16:06
JontheEchidnaok, heh16:06
JontheEchidnaAmarok uses mysqle for music collection management16:06
JontheEchidnaI think for that we just basically need to ensure that we have mysql 5.1 for jaunty16:06
JontheEchidnaand it looks like that's on the agenda ;-)16:06
mathiazJontheEchidna: right - zul and I have been looking into that16:06
zulheh we were just talking about that16:06
mathiazthe issue we have for now is that mysql 5.1 doesn't build on jaunty16:07
mathiazor even 5.016:07
ScottK-laptopOne issue I see with amarok is that any time we do post-release updates on mysql, amarok might need rebuilding to get the benifit of the update.16:07
ScottK-laptopGiven that amarok is using the embedded approach, I don't think that's avoidable.16:07
mathiazScottK-laptop: IIUC amarok uses the embedded mysql library that comes with 5.116:08
ScottK-laptopThat's why it needs 5.1.16:08
zulwell once we get mysql to build then I dont see a problem with it16:08
mathiazScottK-laptop: ok - what would be the consequence of not packaging 5.1 in jaunty?16:09
ScottK-laptopSo I think somewhere it needs to be written down "If you do a security update of mysql, rebuild amarok against it for Jaunty and follow"16:09
ScottK-laptopWe need 5.1 in some form for amarok2 (which is the KDE4 version).16:09
JontheEchidnamathiaz: If we don't package 5.1 apachelogger sez that there's a set of two patches we can use to make it work with amarok16:09
mathiazScottK-laptop: the reason I ask this is because there has been a blog post on planet.mysql.com stating the 5.1 wasn't ready for production16:09
mathiazJontheEchidna: patches for 5.0?16:10
ScottK-laptopSo either it's packaged by the distro, it's stuffed inside the amarok package, or we're stuck on the KDE3 version again (this is a very bad thing).16:10
JontheEchidnaI would assume so16:10
mathiazJontheEchidna: IIUC amarok requires mysql embeded and 5.0 doesn't have support for embededd.16:10
ScottK-laptopJontheEchidna: That note he left is about patches to 5.1.16:10
JontheEchidnanevermind then16:10
ScottK-laptopWell amarok2 is at RC stage using it.16:10
ScottK-laptopSo it must be at least ok'ish.16:11
ScottK-laptopPart of the trick here is that amarok is in Main, so this would need to be in Main.16:11
mathiazScottK-laptop: right - I don't a personal opinion about the state of 5.1 - I've just been watching the MySQL community16:12
mathiazI don't *have*16:12
ScottK-laptopOne way or another we'll need 5.1.16:12
* ScottK-laptop nods.16:12
JontheEchidnaWe did package our own mysql bits for a PPA containing amarok2, so that's a possibility16:12
ScottK-laptopRight.  That's what we'd like to avoid.16:12
ScottK-laptopWho is working on mysql for server team?16:12
mathiazyeah - packaging mysql 5.1 in amarok would make the security team cry16:12
mathiazScottK-laptop: zul and me mainly16:13
* jdstrand sniffles16:13
zulis this embeded stuff jut a library?16:13
JontheEchidnazul: libmysql is all that's needed at build time16:13
mathiazzul: yeah - it was in 4.0 or 4.1 IIRC16:13
mathiazzul: but 5.0 doesn't ship it.16:13
ScottK-laptopJontheEchidna: Maybe you could coordinate with them to pass on what you did in the PPA so they have the advantage of that work.16:13
mathiazso it seems we have one application in main that requires 5.116:13
jdstrandso 5.1 isn't considered ready for production by mysql themselves?16:13
mathiazjdstrand: it is now.16:14
zulcouldnt we jut promote the library and keep everything else in universe for 5.1 if we decide that 5.1 is not stable enough16:14
mathiazjdstrand: 5.1.30 has been declare GA16:14
mathiazjdstrand: Nov 27th16:14
ScottK-laptopzul: presumably.16:14
jdstrandmathiaz: so our plan is to move to 5.1 whole hog and drop 5.0 support in jaunty?16:14
jdstrandor support both?16:14
mathiazjdstrand: that would be one option16:14
mathiazjdstrand: I'd go for 5.1 in main and 5.0 in universe16:15
jdstrandmathiaz: that seems reasonable to me16:15
mathiazjdstrand: the same way we have 4.1 in universe16:15
ScottK-laptopDoes mysql support multiple versions alongside like postgresql does (I'm more familiar with that)?16:15
mathiazhowever moving 5.1 in main means we'd have to take of the library transition16:15
jdstrandI don't want to be supporting two separate releases in main if at all possible16:15
mathiazScottK-laptop: AFAICT no16:16
zulit doesnt16:16
JontheEchidnaScottK-laptop: we have the packaging in a bzr branch, so it should be fairly easy to share16:16
ScottK-laptopAny standard Kubuntu install will use akonadi and amarok both.16:16
mathiazJontheEchidna: are you running the test suite during the build?16:16
ScottK-laptopSo it sounds like akonadi will have to migrate to 5.1 too then to be co-installable.16:16
JontheEchidnamathiaz: I don't know (I've only done updates to the packaging), apachelogger probably would though16:17
JontheEchidna...but he's not here :(16:17
zulis it somewhere now?16:17
mathiazthe main issue now is that the test suite fails.16:18
ScottK-laptopzul: Am I correct then that since amarok needs 5.1 and it needs to be co-installable with akonadi, that akonadi also needs to use 5.1?16:18
mathiazScottK-laptop: yes - that's a reasonable assumption.16:18
JontheEchidnaoh, maybe he doesn't have it in a bzr branch...16:18
mathiazScottK-laptop: we could try to support both libmysql 5.0 and 5.1 in main16:19
ScottK-laptopmathiaz: OK, so it sounds like Kubuntu pretty well HAS to get 5.1 then.16:19
mathiazbut that means the security would have to support two version of mysql16:19
ScottK-laptopOnce it's akonadi it's more than just the lib.16:19
mathiazOk - so to summarize16:20
mathiazit seems we have a compeling use case to get 5.1 in jaunty16:20
mathiazzul and I have already been looking into merging 5.1 from experimental16:20
ScottK-laptopAmarok2 will be one of Kubuntu's marquee features for Jaunty, so we REALLY need it.16:20
* JontheEchidna would cry if we had to include JuK16:21
mathiazzul: could you look into the library transition?16:21
mathiazzul: ie have list of package that would need to be rebuild?16:21
zulmathiaz: yeah I could16:21
mathiaz[ACTION] zul to document the library transition requirement for mysql 5.116:22
MootBotACTION received:  zul to document the library transition requirement for mysql 5.116:22
mathiazI'll try to get some input on the test failure while working on the 5.1 merge16:22
ScottK-laptopmathiaz: How about some action to look into security team's position on supporting two versions in Main.16:22
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to look into test build failures of mysql 5.116:22
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to look into test build failures of mysql 5.116:22
mathiazScottK-laptop: well - jdstrand already expressed his view16:23
ScottK-laptopmathiaz: He didn't say no.16:23
mathiazScottK-laptop: they rarely say no... they always express concerns ;)16:23
zoopster1are there any lp entries that I can get mysql engineers to look at to help the cause? I have a bi-montlhy call with a mysql liason16:23
jdstrandI am confident in expressing that we do not want to do that if at all possible16:23
ScottK-laptopjdstrand: ;-)16:24
ScottK-laptopzoopster1: When's the next call?16:24
mathiazScottK-laptop: having only 5.1 in main mean that akonadi should support 5.116:24
jdstrandit is a very strong-- "please, please don't"16:24
ScottK-laptopmathiaz: Having 5.0/5.1 not coinstallable means akonadi needs to be 5.116:24
mathiazScottK-laptop: however I don't see why akonadi wouldn't work with 5.1 since it starts it's own mysql process16:25
mathiazScottK-laptop: IIUC akonadi doesn't use a library16:25
ScottK-laptopAgreed, to the extent 5.1 is stable, reliable, etc.16:25
zoopster1thurs 1:30 et16:25
mathiazScottK-laptop: so it just uses SQL16:25
ScottK-laptopmathiaz: Well there's your deadline to get some help ^^^16:25
ScottK-laptopAkonadi carries user critical data, so it has to be reliable.16:26
mathiazzoopster1: I'll get in touch with you if I ran into issues.16:26
mathiazok - let's move on.16:26
ScottK-laptopmathiaz: How about an action to let Kubuntu developers know when 5.1 hits the archive and one for us to update akonadi to 5.1.16:26
ScottK-laptopOK.  Thanks.16:27
ScottK-laptopJontheEchidna: Thanks.16:27
JontheEchidnaScottK-laptop: You're welcome16:27
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: Thanks (in abstentia).16:27
mathiaz[TOPIC] split https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM in multiple sub pages16:27
MootBotNew Topic:  split https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM in multiple sub pages16:27
zoopster1mathiaz: deal16:27
ScottK-laptopHave a nice meeting everyone.16:27
mathiaznijaba: what's your brilliant idea?16:27
nijabano that brillant16:28
nijabaI just think the page is too bug16:28
nijabaand that it could be splitted in sub pages16:28
nijababut wanted to see if people had objections before doing so16:29
mathiaznijaba: do you have an idea about the structure?16:29
kirklandnijaba: multiple pages could definitely be more effective, done correctly16:29
nijabamathiaz: not yet, but that would be a theme structure.  one sub section will be dedicated to windows guest, that's sure16:29
mathiaznijaba: ok - so the first step would be to come up with the structure16:30
mathiaznijaba: and then content can be moved from the main page to its sub-page16:31
nijabamathiaz: ok. you can action me on that16:31
mathiaznijaba: great. could you add an item in the roadmap and put up the new structure as bullet points there?16:31
nijabamathiaz: fine16:31
mathiaznijaba: I don't think we need a blueprint for that16:31
nijabahope not ;)16:32
mathiaz[ACTION] nijaba to add an item about KVM wiki page restructure on the Roadmap and list the new structure16:32
MootBotACTION received:  nijaba to add an item about KVM wiki page restructure on the Roadmap and list the new structure16:32
mathiaz[TOPIC] Encrypted home: beta available16:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Encrypted home: beta available16:32
mathiazkirkland: has an amazing news!16:32
* jjesse waits exepenctantly16:33
kirklandmathiaz, et al:  encrypted home directory code is working well :-)16:33
kirklandI just blogged about it here: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2008/12/ubuntu-jaunty-encrypted-home.html, hoping for some early testers16:34
kirklandtwo packages affected, in my PPA, adduser, and ecryptfs-utils16:34
kirklandassuming you upgrade those two packages, it's simply a matter of "adduser --encrypt-home foo"16:34
nijabakirkland: have you done any bench on perf impact?16:34
kirklandand foo's home directory will be setup for total encryption16:34
kirklandnijaba: i did a basic test16:35
kirklandnijaba: i debuild compiled a sufficiently large package16:35
kirklandnijaba: in my encrypted home dir, it took about 19 minutes16:35
kirklandnijaba: in a non-encrypted /tmp dir, it took almost 18 minutes16:35
nijabahmmm; sounds good!16:35
kirklandnijaba: not very scientific, i know16:36
kirklandnijaba: do we have an filesystem performance testers out there?16:36
nijabaenough for me to be convinced to give it a shot on my test machine16:36
kirklandnijaba: someone that could help benchmark this?16:36
kirklandnijaba: good point ...  test machines only at this point16:36
kirklandnijaba: in my PPA, and such16:36
kirklandthe file name encryption hasn't landed in the ubuntu kernel yet16:36
kirklandthough it is in Andrew Morton's -mm tree16:37
kirklandso its well on its way to upstream adoption16:37
kirklandi do think that should make jaunty's final kernel16:37
kirklandi have a number of other things still to do...16:37
kirklandintegrating into the Server and Desktop installers16:37
kirklandand modifying the graphical Users and Groups program to support the option16:38
kirklandin any case, i think the hardest part is behind me ;-)16:38
kirklandso if you have a VM lying around, running Jaunty, please give it a shot ;-)16:38
mathiazkirkland: is the list of TODO items tracked somewhere?16:38
kirklandmathiaz: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/encrypted-home-directory16:39
nijabakirkland: you could get in touch with the guys at phoronyx to give us an idea on the impact16:39
kirklandmathiaz: in the whiteboard16:39
kirklandmathiaz: i still need to make a full wiki spec for it, at which point i'll migrate those over there16:39
kirklandnijaba: interesting, okay...  do you have a contact over there?16:39
kirklandnijaba: those were the guys who trashed Intrepid, though, right?16:39
nijabakirkland: will get you in touch with them16:40
kirklandnijaba: thanks16:40
kirklandmathiaz: i'll probably shift some focus to encrypted swap now16:40
mathiazkirkland: right - considering that you'll have to write something up for UDS you could start a wiki page now16:40
kirklandmathiaz: as that's critically important to the security of the homedir's data, now, in that any cleartext homedir data *only* lives in memory, which could get swapped to disk16:41
mathiazkirkland: OTOH if these are just minor points, adding to the Roadmap would be enough IMO16:41
kirklandmathiaz: okey doke16:41
kirklandmathiaz: i plan on having a wiki page anyway16:41
mathiaz[ACTION] kirkland to create a wiki page for encrypted home directories16:41
MootBotACTION received:  kirkland to create a wiki page for encrypted home directories16:41
mathiazkirkland: anything else on the encrytped front?16:42
kirklandmathiaz: don't think so16:43
Koonkirkland: any way to have a non-encrypted foler inside an encrypted home directory ?16:43
kirklandKoon: kind of ...16:43
kirklandKoon: ecryptfs at the kernel layer supports something called "passthrough"16:43
kirklandKoon: which would do what you suggest16:44
kirklandKoon: however, there's a couple of bugs (or feature requests) in the kernel ecryptfs filesystem that are keeping this from being feature-complete16:44
Koonkirkland: just asking :)16:44
kirklandKoon: it's a great, fair question16:44
mathiazallright - let's move on16:44
kirklandKoon: and it's something i hope we're close to fixing16:44
mathiaz[TOPIC] likewise-open SRU16:44
MootBotNew Topic:  likewise-open SRU16:44
mathiazKoon: ^^?16:45
KoonWell ,testing is now done, thanks to sommer16:45
Koonit's just waiting for -updates copy16:45
mathiazKoon: great - any other SRU that should be tested?16:46
Koonmathiaz: nope, I do have a tomcat5.5 hardy SRU waiting for sponsoring though16:46
mathiazKoon: bug number?16:46
Koonbug 17944716:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 179447 in tomcat5.5 "Installation of tomcat5.5 fails if openjdk-6 or a JRE is installed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17944716:47
mathiazKoon: OTOH you'll be a MOTU soon16:47
mathiazKoon: that could be your first upload16:47
Koonmathiaz: I hope so, so I figured I could do it myself16:47
mathiaz[TOPIC] Open discussion16:48
MootBotNew Topic:  Open discussion16:48
mathiazanything else to add?D16:48
james_wKoon: I'm pretty sure I uploaded that16:48
nijabaI guess there will be no meeting next week because of UDS, right?16:48
kirklandshow of hands, who's attending UDS?  :-)16:48
mathiaznijaba: I was about to discuss that in the next topic16:49
Koonjames_w: you uploaded the intrepid fix... bug not the hardy SRU16:49
james_wKoon: Successfully uploaded tomcat5.5_5.5.25-5ubuntu1.2_source.changes to upload.ubuntu.com.16:49
james_wKoon: I'm trying to work out where it went16:49
mathiazReminder: dendrobates will buy any server team member a beer if they find him at UDS16:50
james_wKoon: Subject: [ubuntu/hardy-proposed] tomcat5.5 5.5.25-5ubuntu1.2 (Waiting for approval)16:50
james_wDate: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:10:08 -000016:50
zulmathiaz: it should be easier to corner him now16:50
mathiaza picture of him can be found in his LP account - https://launchpad.net/~dendrobates/16:51
Koonjames_w: ok, so it's in the queue. Thanks, couldn't tell by looking at the bug16:52
james_wKoon: yeah, I should have added a comment I now realise. You can see it at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=16:52
mathiazanything else to add?16:53
Koonhave a great time at UDS, guys, drink one or two beers in my name :)16:53
nijabaKoon: will do!16:53
* Koon still hopes to get private access to the robotic webcam16:53
mathiaz[TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time16:54
MootBotNew Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time16:54
mathiazas nijaba mentioned earlier, UDS will be taking place next week16:54
mathiazand most of us will be there (sorry Koon :/ )16:54
mathiazso my proposal is to not have a server team meeting next week16:55
mathiazand instead we'll meet again here on IRC in two weeks16:55
mathiazsame time, same place, in two weeks?16:55
sommersounds good to me16:55
=== zoopster1 is now known as zoopster
mathiazgreat then16:57
mathiaznext IRC meeting in two weeks, same time, same place16:57
mathiazand see most of you at UDS next week (or even earlier for those of you that attend Fosscamp16:58
mathiazthanks for attending!16:58
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:58.16:58
nijabaThanks a lot Mathiaz, see you @ Fosscamp16:58
sommerthanks mathiaz, later on all16:59
pgranerTime for the Kernel Team Weekly Meeting....17:00
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team
MootBotMeeting started at 11:00. The chair is pgraner.17:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:00
* apw is here17:00
pgranerThe agenda can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting17:01
pgranerI wanted to get some admin out of the way first.17:01
* smb_tp arrives17:01
* cking here17:01
pgranerWe will cancel next weeks meeting due to UDS and resume the following week17:01
apwsounds reasonable to me17:02
pgraner[ACTION] pgraner to update wiki, and email notifying of cancellation of next weeks meeting17:02
MootBotACTION received:  pgraner to update wiki, and email notifying of cancellation of next weeks meeting17:02
pgraner[TOPIC] Security and Bugfix Kernels17:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Security and Bugfix Kernels17:02
pgranerHow do we look?17:03
rtgall done17:03
rtguploaded, propagated, etc17:03
pgranerrtg: anything filling the queue yet?17:03
rtglots of SRUs puring in.17:03
rtgpouring, even17:03
rtgno CVEs that I'm aware of.17:04
pgranerrtg: great17:04
smb_tpDapper to Hardy should be done as well for security. And Hardy -proposed also looks good17:04
smb_tpAlso no new CVEs17:04
pgranersmb_tp: when is proposed getting pushed?17:04
smb_tppgraner, It is already uploaded. Possibly only meta missing17:05
pgranersmb_tp: ok...17:05
pgraner[TOPIC] Jaunty Status17:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Jaunty Status17:05
pgranerBenC, rtg: ^^^^^^^^^^17:06
rtgwill upload 2.6.28-2.2 momentarily17:06
rtgsent out mailing list note17:06
apwis there any userspace dependancies as yet?17:06
pgranerrtg: yea just saw that... mail is moving slow today :-(17:06
rtgits a rebase against 2.6.28-rc7 plus some other patches.17:06
pgranerrtg: how many sauce patches are we carrying?17:07
rtgdunno, but I actually dropped a couple during this rebase.17:07
pgranerrtg: thats info we need to gather for UDS17:07
rtgsome wacom tablet stuff17:07
amitkpgraner: 4617:08
amitk...with no reference to 4217:08
pgraneramitk: about the same as Intrepid ...17:08
BenCpgraner: sorry, got side tracked on another discussion...17:08
pgranerBenC: no worries...17:09
rtgtalked to fabbione this morning. we need to update gfs as soon as he's got a version ready for .2817:09
apwwe have a couple of reverts in the list so there may be a couple fewer17:09
BenCrtg: Have you reviewed those two reverts to mainline?17:09
pgranerrtg: what about GFS2 I thought that superseded gfs?17:10
amitkapw: right. I missed that in the quick scan. 44 then.17:10
BenCpgraner: gfs is meant to allow moving to gfs217:10
rtgBenC: the wacom tablet reverts? yes - I looked at upstream. seems to be a superset.17:10
pgranerBenC: ok... I thought we were there already, I don't track GFS actively...17:10
BenCpgraner: they aren't compatible, and since fabbione is willing to maintain it (and is upstream for it), we are keeping it around17:10
pgranerBenC: ack17:11
rtgpgraner: fabbione says we'll have to carry it another 2 or 3 years17:11
BenCI'm guessing we can drop it after the next lts17:11
pgranerrtg: wow, thats a long cycle. Does anyone know what the others distros are doing, if anything different?17:11
rtgyou can bet redhat is carrying it :)17:11
BenCpgraner: fedora/redhat are keeping it as well (fabbione works for them)17:11
amitkBenC: can't any of the sauce patches be upstreamed?17:12
BenCamitk: they all need to be reviewed for that, but yes, a lot can17:12
apwwe should probabally do a review across them17:12
pgranerThats a UDS discussion17:13
apwis there a specific session for that?17:13
apwor is that a beer-tent session17:13
rtgapw: I think there is a session for it17:13
pgranerapw: yes17:14
pgranerAnything else for Jaunty?17:14
rtgbeer tents are too noisy for that sort of thing17:14
BenCpgraner: lrm is prepped and ready for upload17:14
pgranerI think we will hammer quite a bit out during UDS17:14
pgranerBenC: nice17:14
BenCpgraner: nothing needed to be ported, was a clean compile17:14
amitkBenC: any plans to replace madwifi HAL?17:15
amitkand move it out of LRM?17:15
BenCamitk: gonna leave that to rtg...I have no hardware to confirm it17:15
rtgamitk: madwifi should just disappear17:15
* amitk nods17:15
BenCrtg: will ath5k/ath9k be using the newly open sources hal?17:15
amitkbut untile ath5k and ath9k works for everybody...17:15
rtg9k isn't relevant, only 5k. and 5k ought to be a superset by now.17:16
rtgLuis will be at UDS, we can chat him up about it.17:16
pgraner[TOPIC] ARM17:16
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM17:16
pgraneramitk: anything new since last week?17:17
BenClooks like armel built fine with -1.1 upload, so that's a big plus17:17
amitkwading through a _huge_ patchset that is the diff between Linus' tree and linux-omap tree17:17
apwis that the like 500k commits one?17:17
amitkUDS decision to be made: go with linux-omap tree for all -omap flavours OR17:18
rtgamitk: are you cross compiling ?17:18
amitkapply several hundred patches to the ubuntu kernel17:18
amitkrtg: yes17:18
pgraneramitk: whats the story with the omap tree? when are those patches expected to be in mainline?17:18
amitkpgraner: another year :)17:18
pgraneramitk: ouch17:18
amitklots of driver fixes needed.17:19
amitkplus first they go to Russell's tree (linux-arm)17:19
amitkthen on to Linus'17:19
ckingamitk: maintenance nightmare17:19
pgraneramitk: ok, we will have that as part of the general kernel roundtable. I'm just worried about bug/security divergence17:19
amitkpgraner: in general it is _possible_ to apply the patches to our tree17:19
amitksince linux-omap is very uptodate with linus' tree17:20
pgraneramitk: sounds like its time for a new guy to step up </hint>17:20
amitkbut I'll leave the decision to UDS with some more numbers in terms of patches and effort17:20
pgranerOk... anything else amitk ?17:20
amitkit would help if someone can take lpia burden off for a while...17:21
pgraneramitk: ok, we can do that next week when we are all together17:21
pgraner[TOPIC] Open Discussion17:21
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion17:21
pgranerGo for it!17:21
apwwhere are we with the various blueprints17:22
rtgrumor has it that pgraner buys all of the beer next week.17:22
* apw remembers that too17:22
amitkrtg: I heard that one too17:22
* pgraner buys with rtg's credit card17:22
* rtg expenses everything17:22
pgranerapw: we will hit blueprints in the next topic17:23
* pgraner notes that rtg has an answer for everything17:23
pgranerI guess we can move on then...17:23
ogasawarawe're looking good for bugs getting worked on from the weekly buglist17:23
apwogasawara, your list is much easier to work with now thanks again for the updates17:24
pgranerOh... sorry ogasawara I forgot to add you back on the agenda. I'll fix now17:24
pgranerogasawara: I too like the new format17:24
pgraner[TOPIC] UDS17:25
MootBotNew Topic:  UDS17:25
pgranerBlueprints are done except for two: kernel-packaging & Kernel Faster Booting17:25
rtgits on my todo list for today17:26
pgranerI've got a call with sconklin later today on the packaging one17:26
amitkguilty as charged. Working on it in bits and pieces17:26
pgranerrtg: great...17:26
apwi have some updates to do, but the bulk is there17:26
amitkhard to write a spec that you don't really agree with...17:26
pgraneramitk: we need to have it flused out buy the actual session so there is a bit of time17:27
pgraneramitk: its not so much that you agree with it, its about the investigation and making sure we cover all the alternatives17:27
apwamitk, in a sense being a harsh critic makes you think about the bad points better, and those are just as valid, as are alternative options17:28
amitkpgraner: just to be sure, this isn't about speeding up boot in general, right?17:28
amitkit is about booting from a pre-saved image17:28
pgraneramitk: there are two different blue prints, rtg has Faster boot. You have the presaved image. Much like what we talked about in London17:28
amitkok. good.17:29
rtgamitk: why is fast boot a separate spec?17:29
rtgisn't pre-saved image just another method for fater boot?17:29
amitkrtg: because it is not necessary achievable for all hardware? And is bootloader dependent?17:29
pgranerrtg: the presaved image is a "instant on" type thing17:29
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
pgranerI would ask that everyone read all the specs and add to them as you see fit. The more there the better.17:30
rtgI'll have idle moments during FOSS camp to do just that.17:31
pgranerAnything else on UDS?17:31
pgranerI'll take silence as approval....17:32
apwnothing here17:32
ckingsilent ack17:33
pgranerReminder no meeting next week. See everyone at UDS!17:33
apwsee you there!17:33
BenCsee ya!17:33
dholbachsee you there :-)17:33
smb_tptill then17:33
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:34.17:34
=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team
nizarus@schedule tunis19:17
ubottuSchedule for Africa/Tunis: 02 Dec 22:00: Community Council | 03 Dec 00:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 17:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 18:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team19:17
=== merriam_ is now known as merriam
=== vorian is now known as heHATEme
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team
Burgundaviahmm, anybody else around?20:57
boredandblogginghope so20:57
hatemshhi all20:57
MaWaLehi folks20:58
MaWaLehi boredandblogging20:58
Burgundaviaquorum is > 1, sadly20:58
TechnovikingI'm here, my wireless is hazy, may drop off21:00
Burgundaviaso we have two21:01
cody-somervilleI'm around21:01
sabdflhello all21:03
sabdflis Nick Ali present?21:04
sabdfldo we have quorum?21:04
Technoviking3 of us21:04
boredandbloggingi wrote up some notes on /talk21:04
boredandbloggingi can rehash if needed or clarify21:04
Burgundaviathe first issue the news team calendar?21:05
boredandbloggingBurgundavia: yes21:06
Burgundaviacan we avoid the whole development issue by using google calendar and then feed that into drupal?21:06
boredandbloggingthe meeting bot still needs to be fixed21:06
=== heHATEme is now known as vorian
boredandbloggingand thats the main problem21:07
sabdfldoes google calendar not handle the repeating nature?21:07
sabdfli.e. can we get a feed from google with repeating events exploded out?21:08
boredandbloggingthe google calendar handles it fine21:08
Burgundaviait would just spit out an ical file21:08
Burgundaviacan we not feed that into drupal and thus the events become non-repeating?21:08
sabdflit does spit out ical, but does it also spit out a list of events in another format?21:08
boredandbloggingical and ics is all I've seen21:09
boredandbloggingreading feeds into drupal is not the easiest thing especially into the event modules21:09
nizarusical, xml and html21:09
boredandbloggingfeeds are handled completely differently21:09
sabdfldoes the newer drupal codebase work with repeating events?21:09
boredandbloggingwe haven't tested it out21:10
boredandbloggingbut if it did do it properly, still a meeting bot issue21:10
boredandbloggingbut if it did each event separately, it could work21:10
boredandbloggingbut I'm not sure why it would break it out21:10
Technovikingwho runs the meeting bot code?21:11
Burgundaviadoes the ical file lists the events as repeating or one event at a time?21:11
sabdflit gets even trickier when you have a repeating event that gets moved around for one instance21:12
sabdfli.e. a CC meeting that gets pushed back an hour on a particular week21:12
boredandbloggingyeah, I'm not sure how ical handles that, but right the code would have to consider that21:13
sabdfldid we develop this bot, or is it something that existed elsewhere that we adapted?21:13
Burgundaviaindeed, my thought21:13
sabdflis it in python...?21:14
boredandbloggingyeah, its a supybot module21:14
Burgundaviaso you are asking for Canonical resources, essentially?21:16
boredandbloggingat least finding someone to fix the bot21:16
boredandblogginganyone who can code and make the changes21:16
Burgundaviagiven we at the CC are more of the moral persuasion21:16
Burgundaviahave you tried blogging about it?21:16
sabdfli wonder if google's api doesn't allow us to count on it for expanding out the ical file21:17
Burgundaviaapologies if you have, been heads down with school recently21:17
boredandbloggingi haven't blogged about it21:17
sabdfli will send off an email to some folks at canonical that just did some work on google calendar scripting21:17
Technovikingsorry wireless drop off for a minute21:17
sabdfli take it that it's sufficient to be able to monitor a google calendar and announce events in a set of channels?21:17
boredandbloggingsabdfl: yeah, we just want to maintain its current functionality21:18
sabdfli don't know the full extent of that :-)21:18
sabdflok, i'll send that mail, nick what's your email addy?21:18
boredandbloggingsabdfl: nali @ ubuntu21:19
sabdflokdokey, will cc you21:19
sabdflhope something good comes out of it21:19
boredandbloggingthanks guys21:19
sabdflyann hamon?21:19
Burgundaviapostponed until the 16th21:20
sabdfldo we have a view on corporate blogs and planet? this came up before with canonical21:20
Burgundaviaas long as it isn't overt advertising, I don't have a major issue with it21:21
Burgundaviasomething like Novells PR blog on planet suse is a bit too advertising for me, for example21:21
sabdflhow about we subscribe to a subset feed?21:22
sabdflsay, if they explicitly tag it "planet" then we take it?21:22
sabdfland then we also hold them accountable for not advertising?21:22
Burgundaviamaybe we have a trial period?21:23
sabdflthat makes "publish on planet" a conscious decision, rather than an accident21:23
Technovikingdon't think so, I think it would be fine to have a corporate blog feed to the planet if it is Ubuntu releated, no sales pitch!21:23
sabdfli think a review in three months would be useful21:23
sabdflif only to say "so far so groovy"21:23
Burgundaviathat works21:23
Technovikingsounds like a plan21:24
Burgundaviashould we explicitly list the corporate blogs somewhere on the wiki with the rules?21:24
Burgundaviaand how to get added?21:24
sabdflwhere should we document this policy guideline?21:24
sabdflif it's just one paragraph, can we add it to the main page?21:25
sabdflhow about requiring CC approval?21:25
sabdfljust so we don't get folks adding companies that are almost peripheral21:25
boredandbloggingwouldn't it be better to have a separate planet for it? I would think a lot of companies would be interested21:25
Burgundaviaa corporate ghetto? no thanks21:26
sabdflwe don't have a concept of "corporate membership" but i think some awareness at CC level would be useful, until it gets bedded down and can be delegated21:26
sabdfli agree, a separate planet would be less useful21:26
Burgundaviacorporations can be just as much a part of the community as a person21:26
lifelessI think it would be great to have the companies deeply into Ubuntu blogging on planet21:26
lifelessjust as a non-cc-member opinion21:26
Burgundaviawe should also encourage their engineers, etc. to create blogs and post about projects they are working on21:26
boredandbloggingjust afraid the planet would get swamped, but that can be dealt with later21:27
Burgundaviasubject to normal membership guidelines, etc.21:27
sabdflBurgundavia: would you draft a paragraph for the Planet page?21:27
sabdflsalient points are:21:27
Burgundaviashould we ask that at least one person at the company is a member (strawman, not certain if I like it or hate it)21:27
sabdfl - "conscious subsets" of corporate blogs can be published on planet21:28
sabdfl - needs to be agreed with CC21:28
sabdfl - criteria will be sustained and significant involvement in Ubuntu by the company21:28
sabdfl - and no advertising on posts flagged for publishing on planet21:28
sabdflBurgundavia: +121:28
sabdfl(on the requirement that the company have a member to take responsibility)21:29
BurgundaviaTechnoviking: ?21:29
sabdflany other bullets folks would add to that list?21:29
Technoviking+1 on that21:29
boredandbloggingcreative commons licensed?21:29
TechnovikingIt sounds like a great idea21:29
lifelessboredandblogging: don't see that that is specific to company blogs21:29
Burgundaviaboredandblogging: enforcing licensing may lead to legal issues that prevent blogging21:30
sabdfldo we have an existing requirement of CC licensing for planet?21:30
TechnovikingI think posts to the planet would have to be creative commons licenced21:30
sabdfli don't think we require that for individuals, do we?21:31
Burgundavianot currently, unless i have really been sleeping at the switch21:31
TechnovikingI thought we did, but I may be think of the forums post21:32
sabdfli take it we have explicit permission, since people subscribe us to their feed21:32
sabdfli'm -1 on treating corp blogs differently from a licensing perspective21:32
sabdflTechnoviking: ?21:33
Technovikingthat is fine with me, no need for license21:33
sabdflother than implied permission to republish21:33
sabdflBurgundavia: is that enough for you?21:33
Burgundaviayep, am working on it right now21:34
sabdflis that a wrap?21:34
james_wa related question if you have a moment21:34
sabdflBurgundavia: will you cc a copy of that to the UWN folks?21:35
sabdfljames_w: go for it21:35
Technovikingis someone from Tunisian LoCo Team here21:35
Burgundaviafirst cut21:35
james_wdoes every blog on planet have to be an Ubuntu member, or can you "sponsor" people on to it?21:35
sabdfljames_w: the former21:35
Burgundaviainteresting idea. why do you suggest it?21:35
james_wthought so, someone told me otherwise21:35
james_w"I've done if before and no-one complained" was the line I think :-)21:36
Burgundaviahave we actually checked that everybody int eh feed is a member?21:36
sabdflthat's not *really* the same thing :-)21:36
sabdflBurgundavia: i don't think so, no21:36
jcastroTechnoviking: I've been talking to one of the guys about this Tunisian thing21:36
jcastroTechnoviking: I was going to bring it up at a UDS roundtable21:36
Technovikingjcastro: ok thanks21:36
Burgundaviado we think it is worth doing?21:36
jcastroI think so21:37
sabdflfrom a canonical perspective, we have specific decision processes for that21:37
jcastroI am unsure on who is available and who would want to go and all that.21:37
sabdfljcastro is plugged in21:37
Burgundaviasabdfl: for the corporate blogs page, I am going to circulate on the mailing list for comments before we send it off to the UWN21:38
sabdflBurgundavia: +121:38
sabdflon the Tunis question, i think we should let jcastro tackle it21:38
jcastroI've TODOed it for UDS21:38
sabdflif it's appropriate for Canonical to sponsor an Ubuntu member, we'll do that21:38
TechnovikingBurgundavia: looks great: +121:38
Technovikingsabdfl: +1, jcastro ftw!!!21:39
* RainCT would like to suggest allowing LoCo Teams to aggregate a feed on planet.ubuntu.com21:39
nizarustunisian loco member are here21:39
nizarusme alibb MaWaLe hatemsh :)21:40
Technovikingnizarus: jcastro is going to work with you21:40
nizarusok Technoviking21:41
nizarussabdfl, you can't attend to it ??21:41
Burgundaviayou need to make a cloning machine with your millions. screw with open source stuff21:41
Burgundaviajust to be aware, I have to leave in about 20 minutes21:45
sabdflRainCT: i think it better to ask folks to become members21:45
Technovikingi think we are done21:45
* sabdfl also has to wrap up21:45
Technovikingthanks for coming everyone, see some of you next week at UDS21:46
Burgundaviaso still on the agenda for next time is asia pacific board and the artwork guidelines?21:46
Burgundaviaugh, exam week21:46
Burgundaviahave fun21:46
nizarusthx all folks21:47
sabdflthanks folks!21:48
Technovikinglater all21:48
sabdflBurgundavia: +121:48
sabdflBurgundavia: just say "the CC will review in April 2009"21:48
nizarussabdfl, waiting for you in Tunisia some days ;-)21:48
MaWaLe+1 nizarus21:49
sabdflnizarus: heh, i would like to come, enjoyed WSIS21:49
james_wWSIS was cool21:50
nizarusi think we will not have a nex WSIS before 2099 :))21:50
hatemshunfortunatly we orgnise the wsis+3 event21:51
hatemshsome day ago21:51
hatemshin hammamet21:51
hatemshjames_w,  hope to meet you in the wsis+421:52
james_wI'd love to return21:52
hatemshyou are welcome21:52
hatemshin any event and without event21:53
james_wunfortunately I'm not in that line of work anymore, but you never know :-)21:53
wrtpeepssomebody call me when this starts21:53
nizarusjames_w, hatemsh gives you an open invitation to visit us so just oing us :)21:54
james_wexcellent :-)21:54
wrtpeepsoh wait21:54
wrtpeepsanother hour to go21:54
nizarusit s avilebal for boredandblogging too :p21:55
boredandbloggingnizarus: someday :)21:56
MaWaLeinfact the invitation is available for all ubuntero : it's an open source invitation :p21:56
Burgundaviaguys if you want to talk about the tunisian event, can you move to another channel?22:00
Burgundaviakeeps the logs clear22:00
hatemshBurgundavia,  ok22:01
nizarussorry Burgundavia we are talking about on #ubuntu-tn22:01
Burgundaviano worries22:01
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Forum Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team
Technovikinghello all23:00
Technovikingany other FC people here23:01
TechnovikingLets give people a couple more minutes23:02
wrtpeepsJoeb454: :o23:02
forumsmatthewI am pretty sure ubuntu-geek is driving home atm and will arrive soon23:03
Technovikingany word from jdong or kiwi23:03
forumsmatthewI haven't heard from either, but will start pinging23:03
wrtpeepshow long to these shows generally last?23:04
Joeb4548 hours23:05
Technovikinghourish, usually less23:05
Technovikingwrtpeeps: problem?23:06
TechnovikingWell, we can start but, we will not be able to ote on anything till we get one more FC person for a quoram23:09
forumsmatthewI would rather wait than have to repeat stuff when others arrive23:10
nandso do I23:11
forumsmatthewokay, let's give them a few minutes. I've contacted the missing people. Hopefully they just forgot and are close to their computers and not in the middle of dealing with unexpected problems23:12
stgraberforumsmatthew: "unexpected problems" ? does that ever happen ?23:13
forumsmatthewstgraber, lol :)23:13
Joeb454well there was that one time jdong walked in........no nevermind ;)23:14
Technovikinglooks like we are it forumsmatthew23:18
forumsmatthewYeah. Bummer.23:18
forumsmatthewI think we need to reschedule23:19
Technovikingwould people mind delaying a week or so23:19
nandI guess we have no choice. After UDS then?23:19
forumsmatthewI think so. We will look at the schedule and get something up asap23:20
* nand is falling asleep23:20
nandgood night all!23:21
forumsmatthewI'll send an email to the FC mailing list and get the reschedule started and we will post the new date on the wiki23:21
forumsmatthewnight, nand23:21
Technovikingok, sorry about that folks, if you have any immediate problem, send them to the forums council mailing list23:21
forumsmatthewthe email has been sent. we will work to get a new meeting time on the wiki soon23:23
forumsmatthewbye, everyone!23:23
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Forum Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team | 04 Dec 14:00: Ubuntu Java

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