[10:52] <lifeless> @schedule
[11:20] <elkbuntu> hi lifeless.
[11:20] <lifeless> hi
[11:20] <lifeless> are we meeting?
[11:20] <lifeless> or am I time-confused
[11:21] <elkbuntu> i'm not sure. there's nobody on our agenda page
[11:21] <lifeless> short meeting then
[11:21] <elkbuntu> yep
[11:21] <elkbuntu> in absence of quorum or applicants, i'm inclined to close it.
[11:21] <lifeless> seconded
[11:22] <elkbuntu> and try finish my talk for thursday.
[15:35] <nijaba> @now paris
[15:58] <kirkland> o/
[15:59] <JontheEchidna> \o
[15:59]  * mathiaz waves
[15:59] <Koon> \o/
[16:00] <ScottK-laptop> Hello.
[16:00] <zul> yarp yarp
[16:01] <sommer> hey all
[16:01] <jjesse> hello
[16:01] <jjesse> time to get started?
[16:01] <mathiaz> all right folks!
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> ScottK-laptop: Hi, apachelogger had to go to the hospital because his bf got in a car accident
[16:01] <mathiaz> let's get this started
[16:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <mathiaz> welcome to the Server Team meeting!
[16:01] <mathiaz> starring... well a lot of interesting people! :)
[16:01] <nijaba> o/
[16:02] <mathiaz> today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <mathiaz> we've got plenty of things to cover this week!
[16:02] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: Did you get my ping about going first?
[16:02] <ScottK-laptop> I can make it quick.
[16:02] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: hm - I didn't get your ping
[16:03] <ScottK-laptop> I've only got about 20 minutes and then I need to go.
[16:03] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: oh ok.
[16:03] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] KDE mysql needs for Jaunty
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  KDE mysql needs for Jaunty
[16:03] <ScottK-laptop> KDE has two major packages that use mysql.
[16:04] <ScottK-laptop> akonadi and amarok.
[16:04] <ScottK-laptop> JontheEchidna is here also from the Kubuntu team to help me discuss
[16:04] <JontheEchidna> \o
[16:04] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: right - I ran into akonadi when I developer the apparmor profile
[16:04] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: I had some dicussion with the upstream devs about it also.
[16:05] <ScottK-laptop> Good.
[16:05] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: IIRC you introduced me to them
[16:05] <ScottK-laptop> I wanted to coordinate early to ensure that our mysql packages work with akonadi so we don't have code copies.
[16:05] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: IIRC the current situation is that akonadi starts its own mysql process
[16:05] <ScottK-laptop> Right.
[16:05] <ScottK-laptop> http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/79351/ has some background.
[16:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/79351/ has some background.
[16:06] <ScottK-laptop> JontheEchidna: Jump in any time.
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> ok, heh
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> Amarok uses mysqle for music collection management
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> I think for that we just basically need to ensure that we have mysql 5.1 for jaunty
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> and it looks like that's on the agenda ;-)
[16:06] <mathiaz> JontheEchidna: right - zul and I have been looking into that
[16:06] <zul> heh we were just talking about that
[16:07] <mathiaz> the issue we have for now is that mysql 5.1 doesn't build on jaunty
[16:07] <mathiaz> or even 5.0
[16:07] <ScottK-laptop> One issue I see with amarok is that any time we do post-release updates on mysql, amarok might need rebuilding to get the benifit of the update.
[16:07] <ScottK-laptop> Given that amarok is using the embedded approach, I don't think that's avoidable.
[16:08] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: IIUC amarok uses the embedded mysql library that comes with 5.1
[16:08] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.
[16:08] <ScottK-laptop> That's why it needs 5.1.
[16:08] <zul> well once we get mysql to build then I dont see a problem with it
[16:09] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: ok - what would be the consequence of not packaging 5.1 in jaunty?
[16:09] <ScottK-laptop> So I think somewhere it needs to be written down "If you do a security update of mysql, rebuild amarok against it for Jaunty and follow"
[16:09] <ScottK-laptop> We need 5.1 in some form for amarok2 (which is the KDE4 version).
[16:09] <JontheEchidna> mathiaz: If we don't package 5.1 apachelogger sez that there's a set of two patches we can use to make it work with amarok
[16:09] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: the reason I ask this is because there has been a blog post on planet.mysql.com stating the 5.1 wasn't ready for production
[16:10] <mathiaz> JontheEchidna: patches for 5.0?
[16:10] <ScottK-laptop> So either it's packaged by the distro, it's stuffed inside the amarok package, or we're stuck on the KDE3 version again (this is a very bad thing).
[16:10] <JontheEchidna> I would assume so
[16:10] <mathiaz> JontheEchidna: IIUC amarok requires mysql embeded and 5.0 doesn't have support for embededd.
[16:10] <ScottK-laptop> JontheEchidna: That note he left is about patches to 5.1.
[16:10] <JontheEchidna> oh
[16:10] <JontheEchidna> nevermind then
[16:10] <ScottK-laptop> Well amarok2 is at RC stage using it.
[16:11] <ScottK-laptop> So it must be at least ok'ish.
[16:11] <ScottK-laptop> Part of the trick here is that amarok is in Main, so this would need to be in Main.
[16:12] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: right - I don't a personal opinion about the state of 5.1 - I've just been watching the MySQL community
[16:12] <mathiaz> I don't *have*
[16:12] <ScottK-laptop> One way or another we'll need 5.1.
[16:12]  * ScottK-laptop nods.
[16:12] <JontheEchidna> We did package our own mysql bits for a PPA containing amarok2, so that's a possibility
[16:12] <ScottK-laptop> Right.  That's what we'd like to avoid.
[16:12] <ScottK-laptop> Who is working on mysql for server team?
[16:12] <mathiaz> yeah - packaging mysql 5.1 in amarok would make the security team cry
[16:13] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: zul and me mainly
[16:13]  * jdstrand sniffles
[16:13] <zul> is this embeded stuff jut a library?
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> zul: libmysql is all that's needed at build time
[16:13] <mathiaz> zul: yeah - it was in 4.0 or 4.1 IIRC
[16:13] <mathiaz> zul: but 5.0 doesn't ship it.
[16:13] <ScottK-laptop> JontheEchidna: Maybe you could coordinate with them to pass on what you did in the PPA so they have the advantage of that work.
[16:13] <mathiaz> so it seems we have one application in main that requires 5.1
[16:13] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.
[16:13] <jdstrand> so 5.1 isn't considered ready for production by mysql themselves?
[16:14] <JontheEchidna> brb
[16:14] <mathiaz> jdstrand: it is now.
[16:14] <zul> couldnt we jut promote the library and keep everything else in universe for 5.1 if we decide that 5.1 is not stable enough
[16:14] <mathiaz> jdstrand: 5.1.30 has been declare GA
[16:14] <mathiaz> jdstrand: Nov 27th
[16:14] <ScottK-laptop> zul: presumably.
[16:14] <jdstrand> mathiaz: so our plan is to move to 5.1 whole hog and drop 5.0 support in jaunty?
[16:14] <jdstrand> or support both?
[16:14] <mathiaz> jdstrand: that would be one option
[16:15] <zul> icky..
[16:15] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I'd go for 5.1 in main and 5.0 in universe
[16:15] <jdstrand> mathiaz: that seems reasonable to me
[16:15] <mathiaz> jdstrand: the same way we have 4.1 in universe
[16:15] <ScottK-laptop> Does mysql support multiple versions alongside like postgresql does (I'm more familiar with that)?
[16:15] <mathiaz> however moving 5.1 in main means we'd have to take of the library transition
[16:15] <jdstrand> I don't want to be supporting two separate releases in main if at all possible
[16:16] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: AFAICT no
[16:16] <zul> it doesnt
[16:16] <JontheEchidna> ScottK-laptop: we have the packaging in a bzr branch, so it should be fairly easy to share
[16:16] <ScottK-laptop> Any standard Kubuntu install will use akonadi and amarok both.
[16:16] <mathiaz> JontheEchidna: are you running the test suite during the build?
[16:16] <ScottK-laptop> So it sounds like akonadi will have to migrate to 5.1 too then to be co-installable.
[16:17] <JontheEchidna> mathiaz: I don't know (I've only done updates to the packaging), apachelogger probably would though
[16:17] <JontheEchidna> ...but he's not here :(
[16:17] <zul> is it somewhere now?
[16:18] <mathiaz> the main issue now is that the test suite fails.
[16:18] <ScottK-laptop> zul: Am I correct then that since amarok needs 5.1 and it needs to be co-installable with akonadi, that akonadi also needs to use 5.1?
[16:18] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: yes - that's a reasonable assumption.
[16:18] <JontheEchidna> oh, maybe he doesn't have it in a bzr branch...
[16:19] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: we could try to support both libmysql 5.0 and 5.1 in main
[16:19] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: OK, so it sounds like Kubuntu pretty well HAS to get 5.1 then.
[16:19] <mathiaz> but that means the security would have to support two version of mysql
[16:19] <ScottK-laptop> Once it's akonadi it's more than just the lib.
[16:20] <mathiaz> Ok - so to summarize
[16:20] <mathiaz> it seems we have a compeling use case to get 5.1 in jaunty
[16:20] <mathiaz> zul and I have already been looking into merging 5.1 from experimental
[16:20] <ScottK-laptop> Amarok2 will be one of Kubuntu's marquee features for Jaunty, so we REALLY need it.
[16:21]  * JontheEchidna would cry if we had to include JuK
[16:21] <mathiaz> zul: could you look into the library transition?
[16:21] <mathiaz> zul: ie have list of package that would need to be rebuild?
[16:21] <zul> mathiaz: yeah I could
[16:22] <mathiaz> [ACTION] zul to document the library transition requirement for mysql 5.1
[16:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to document the library transition requirement for mysql 5.1
[16:22] <mathiaz> I'll try to get some input on the test failure while working on the 5.1 merge
[16:22] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: How about some action to look into security team's position on supporting two versions in Main.
[16:22] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to look into test build failures of mysql 5.1
[16:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to look into test build failures of mysql 5.1
[16:23] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: well - jdstrand already expressed his view
[16:23] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: He didn't say no.
[16:23] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: they rarely say no... they always express concerns ;)
[16:23] <zoopster1> are there any lp entries that I can get mysql engineers to look at to help the cause? I have a bi-montlhy call with a mysql liason
[16:23] <jdstrand> I am confident in expressing that we do not want to do that if at all possible
[16:24] <ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: ;-)
[16:24] <ScottK-laptop> zoopster1: When's the next call?
[16:24] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: having only 5.1 in main mean that akonadi should support 5.1
[16:24] <jdstrand> it is a very strong-- "please, please don't"
[16:24] <jdstrand> :)
[16:24] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: Having 5.0/5.1 not coinstallable means akonadi needs to be 5.1
[16:25] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: however I don't see why akonadi wouldn't work with 5.1 since it starts it's own mysql process
[16:25] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: IIUC akonadi doesn't use a library
[16:25] <ScottK-laptop> Agreed, to the extent 5.1 is stable, reliable, etc.
[16:25] <zoopster1> thurs 1:30 et
[16:25] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: so it just uses SQL
[16:25] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: Well there's your deadline to get some help ^^^
[16:26] <ScottK-laptop> Akonadi carries user critical data, so it has to be reliable.
[16:26] <mathiaz> zoopster1: I'll get in touch with you if I ran into issues.
[16:26] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on.
[16:26] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: How about an action to let Kubuntu developers know when 5.1 hits the archive and one for us to update akonadi to 5.1.
[16:27] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  Thanks.
[16:27] <ScottK-laptop> JontheEchidna: Thanks.
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> ScottK-laptop: You're welcome
[16:27] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: Thanks (in abstentia).
[16:27] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] split https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM in multiple sub pages
[16:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  split https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM in multiple sub pages
[16:27] <zoopster1> mathiaz: deal
[16:27] <ScottK-laptop> Have a nice meeting everyone.
[16:27] <mathiaz> nijaba: what's your brilliant idea?
[16:28] <nijaba> no that brillant
[16:28] <nijaba> I just think the page is too bug
[16:28] <nijaba> big
[16:28] <nijaba> and that it could be splitted in sub pages
[16:29] <nijaba> but wanted to see if people had objections before doing so
[16:29] <mathiaz> nijaba: do you have an idea about the structure?
[16:29] <kirkland> nijaba: multiple pages could definitely be more effective, done correctly
[16:29] <nijaba> mathiaz: not yet, but that would be a theme structure.  one sub section will be dedicated to windows guest, that's sure
[16:30] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok - so the first step would be to come up with the structure
[16:31] <mathiaz> nijaba: and then content can be moved from the main page to its sub-page
[16:31] <nijaba> mathiaz: ok. you can action me on that
[16:31] <mathiaz> nijaba: great. could you add an item in the roadmap and put up the new structure as bullet points there?
[16:31] <nijaba> mathiaz: fine
[16:31] <mathiaz> nijaba: I don't think we need a blueprint for that
[16:32] <nijaba> hope not ;)
[16:32] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to add an item about KVM wiki page restructure on the Roadmap and list the new structure
[16:32] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to add an item about KVM wiki page restructure on the Roadmap and list the new structure
[16:32] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Encrypted home: beta available
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Encrypted home: beta available
[16:32] <mathiaz> kirkland: has an amazing news!
[16:33]  * jjesse waits exepenctantly
[16:33] <kirkland> mathiaz, et al:  encrypted home directory code is working well :-)
[16:34] <kirkland> I just blogged about it here: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2008/12/ubuntu-jaunty-encrypted-home.html, hoping for some early testers
[16:34] <kirkland> two packages affected, in my PPA, adduser, and ecryptfs-utils
[16:34] <kirkland> assuming you upgrade those two packages, it's simply a matter of "adduser --encrypt-home foo"
[16:34] <nijaba> kirkland: have you done any bench on perf impact?
[16:34] <kirkland> and foo's home directory will be setup for total encryption
[16:35] <kirkland> nijaba: i did a basic test
[16:35] <kirkland> nijaba: i debuild compiled a sufficiently large package
[16:35] <kirkland> nijaba: in my encrypted home dir, it took about 19 minutes
[16:35] <kirkland> nijaba: in a non-encrypted /tmp dir, it took almost 18 minutes
[16:35] <nijaba> hmmm; sounds good!
[16:36] <kirkland> nijaba: not very scientific, i know
[16:36] <kirkland> nijaba: do we have an filesystem performance testers out there?
[16:36] <nijaba> enough for me to be convinced to give it a shot on my test machine
[16:36] <kirkland> nijaba: someone that could help benchmark this?
[16:36] <kirkland> nijaba: good point ...  test machines only at this point
[16:36] <kirkland> nijaba: in my PPA, and such
[16:36] <kirkland> the file name encryption hasn't landed in the ubuntu kernel yet
[16:37] <kirkland> though it is in Andrew Morton's -mm tree
[16:37] <kirkland> so its well on its way to upstream adoption
[16:37] <kirkland> i do think that should make jaunty's final kernel
[16:37] <kirkland> i have a number of other things still to do...
[16:37] <kirkland> integrating into the Server and Desktop installers
[16:38] <kirkland> and modifying the graphical Users and Groups program to support the option
[16:38] <kirkland> in any case, i think the hardest part is behind me ;-)
[16:38] <kirkland> so if you have a VM lying around, running Jaunty, please give it a shot ;-)
[16:38] <mathiaz> kirkland: is the list of TODO items tracked somewhere?
[16:39] <kirkland> mathiaz: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/encrypted-home-directory
[16:39] <nijaba> kirkland: you could get in touch with the guys at phoronyx to give us an idea on the impact
[16:39] <kirkland> mathiaz: in the whiteboard
[16:39] <kirkland> mathiaz: i still need to make a full wiki spec for it, at which point i'll migrate those over there
[16:39] <kirkland> nijaba: interesting, okay...  do you have a contact over there?
[16:39] <kirkland> nijaba: those were the guys who trashed Intrepid, though, right?
[16:40] <nijaba> kirkland: will get you in touch with them
[16:40] <kirkland> nijaba: thanks
[16:40] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'll probably shift some focus to encrypted swap now
[16:40] <mathiaz> kirkland: right - considering that you'll have to write something up for UDS you could start a wiki page now
[16:41] <kirkland> mathiaz: as that's critically important to the security of the homedir's data, now, in that any cleartext homedir data *only* lives in memory, which could get swapped to disk
[16:41] <mathiaz> kirkland: OTOH if these are just minor points, adding to the Roadmap would be enough IMO
[16:41] <kirkland> mathiaz: okey doke
[16:41] <kirkland> mathiaz: i plan on having a wiki page anyway
[16:41] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to create a wiki page for encrypted home directories
[16:41] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to create a wiki page for encrypted home directories
[16:42] <mathiaz> kirkland: anything else on the encrytped front?
[16:43] <kirkland> mathiaz: don't think so
[16:43] <Koon> kirkland: any way to have a non-encrypted foler inside an encrypted home directory ?
[16:43] <Koon> (folder)
[16:43] <kirkland> Koon: kind of ...
[16:43] <kirkland> Koon: ecryptfs at the kernel layer supports something called "passthrough"
[16:44] <kirkland> Koon: which would do what you suggest
[16:44] <kirkland> Koon: however, there's a couple of bugs (or feature requests) in the kernel ecryptfs filesystem that are keeping this from being feature-complete
[16:44] <Koon> kirkland: just asking :)
[16:44] <kirkland> Koon: it's a great, fair question
[16:44] <mathiaz> allright - let's move on
[16:44] <kirkland> Koon: and it's something i hope we're close to fixing
[16:44] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] likewise-open SRU
[16:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  likewise-open SRU
[16:45] <mathiaz> Koon: ^^?
[16:45] <Koon> Well ,testing is now done, thanks to sommer
[16:45] <Koon> it's just waiting for -updates copy
[16:46] <mathiaz> Koon: great - any other SRU that should be tested?
[16:46] <Koon> mathiaz: nope, I do have a tomcat5.5 hardy SRU waiting for sponsoring though
[16:46] <mathiaz> Koon: bug number?
[16:47] <Koon> bug 179447
[16:47] <mathiaz> Koon: OTOH you'll be a MOTU soon
[16:47] <mathiaz> Koon: that could be your first upload
[16:47] <Koon> mathiaz: I hope so, so I figured I could do it myself
[16:48] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
[16:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
[16:48] <mathiaz> anything else to add?D
[16:48] <james_w> Koon: I'm pretty sure I uploaded that
[16:48] <nijaba> I guess there will be no meeting next week because of UDS, right?
[16:48] <kirkland> show of hands, who's attending UDS?  :-)
[16:48] <kirkland> o/
[16:49] <nijaba> o/
[16:49] <mathiaz> nijaba: I was about to discuss that in the next topic
[16:49] <mathiaz> o/
[16:49] <zul> \o\
[16:49] <zoopster1> o/
[16:49] <Koon> james_w: you uploaded the intrepid fix... bug not the hardy SRU
[16:49] <sommer> o//
[16:49] <james_w> Koon: Successfully uploaded tomcat5.5_5.5.25-5ubuntu1.2_source.changes to upload.ubuntu.com.
[16:49] <Koon> ah.hm.
[16:49] <james_w> Koon: I'm trying to work out where it went
[16:50] <Koon> o\
[16:50] <mathiaz> Reminder: dendrobates will buy any server team member a beer if they find him at UDS
[16:50] <james_w> Koon: Subject: 	[ubuntu/hardy-proposed] tomcat5.5 5.5.25-5ubuntu1.2 (Waiting for approval)
[16:50] <james_w> Date: 	Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:10:08 -0000
[16:50] <zul> mathiaz: it should be easier to corner him now
[16:51] <mathiaz> a picture of him can be found in his LP account - https://launchpad.net/~dendrobates/
[16:52] <Koon> james_w: ok, so it's in the queue. Thanks, couldn't tell by looking at the bug
[16:52] <james_w> Koon: yeah, I should have added a comment I now realise. You can see it at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
[16:53] <mathiaz> anything else to add?
[16:53] <Koon> have a great time at UDS, guys, drink one or two beers in my name :)
[16:53] <nijaba> Koon: will do!
[16:53]  * Koon still hopes to get private access to the robotic webcam
[16:54] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:54] <mathiaz> as nijaba mentioned earlier, UDS will be taking place next week
[16:54] <mathiaz> and most of us will be there (sorry Koon :/ )
[16:55] <mathiaz> so my proposal is to not have a server team meeting next week
[16:55] <mathiaz> and instead we'll meet again here on IRC in two weeks
[16:55] <mathiaz> same time, same place, in two weeks?
[16:55] <sommer> sounds good to me
[16:56] <nijaba> +1
[16:57] <mathiaz> great then
[16:57] <mathiaz> next IRC meeting in two weeks, same time, same place
[16:58] <mathiaz> and see most of you at UDS next week (or even earlier for those of you that attend Fosscamp
[16:58] <mathiaz> thanks for attending!
[16:58] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[16:58] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:58.
[16:58] <nijaba> Thanks a lot Mathiaz, see you @ Fosscamp
[16:59] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
[17:00] <pgraner> Time for the Kernel Team Weekly Meeting....
[17:00] <pgraner> #startmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is pgraner.
[17:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:00]  * apw is here
[17:01] <pgraner> The agenda can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[17:01] <lieb> here
[17:01] <pgraner> I wanted to get some admin out of the way first.
[17:01]  * smb_tp arrives
[17:01] <sconklin> here
[17:01]  * cking here
[17:01] <pgraner> We will cancel next weeks meeting due to UDS and resume the following week
[17:02] <apw> sounds reasonable to me
[17:02] <pgraner> [ACTION] pgraner to update wiki, and email notifying of cancellation of next weeks meeting
[17:02] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to update wiki, and email notifying of cancellation of next weeks meeting
[17:02] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Security and Bugfix Kernels
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security and Bugfix Kernels
[17:02] <pgraner> Intrepid
[17:03] <pgraner> How do we look?
[17:03] <rtg> all done
[17:03] <rtg> uploaded, propagated, etc
[17:03] <pgraner> rtg: anything filling the queue yet?
[17:03] <rtg> lots of SRUs puring in.
[17:03] <rtg> pouring, even
[17:04] <rtg> no CVEs that I'm aware of.
[17:04] <pgraner> rtg: great
[17:04] <pgraner> Hardy?
[17:04] <smb_tp> Dapper to Hardy should be done as well for security. And Hardy -proposed also looks good
[17:04] <smb_tp> Also no new CVEs
[17:04] <pgraner> smb_tp: when is proposed getting pushed?
[17:05] <smb_tp> pgraner, It is already uploaded. Possibly only meta missing
[17:05] <pgraner> smb_tp: ok...
[17:05] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Jaunty Status
[17:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Status
[17:06] <pgraner> BenC, rtg: ^^^^^^^^^^
[17:06] <rtg> will upload 2.6.28-2.2 momentarily
[17:06] <rtg> sent out mailing list note
[17:06] <apw> is there any userspace dependancies as yet?
[17:06] <pgraner> rtg: yea just saw that... mail is moving slow today :-(
[17:06] <rtg> its a rebase against 2.6.28-rc7 plus some other patches.
[17:07] <pgraner> rtg: how many sauce patches are we carrying?
[17:07] <rtg> dunno, but I actually dropped a couple during this rebase.
[17:07] <pgraner> rtg: thats info we need to gather for UDS
[17:07] <rtg> some wacom tablet stuff
[17:08] <amitk> pgraner: 46
[17:08] <amitk> ...with no reference to 42
[17:08] <pgraner> amitk: about the same as Intrepid ...
[17:08] <BenC> pgraner: sorry, got side tracked on another discussion...
[17:09] <pgraner> BenC: no worries...
[17:09] <rtg> talked to fabbione this morning. we need to update gfs as soon as he's got a version ready for .28
[17:09] <apw> we have a couple of reverts in the list so there may be a couple fewer
[17:09] <BenC> rtg: Have you reviewed those two reverts to mainline?
[17:10] <pgraner> rtg: what about GFS2 I thought that superseded gfs?
[17:10] <amitk> apw: right. I missed that in the quick scan. 44 then.
[17:10] <BenC> pgraner: gfs is meant to allow moving to gfs2
[17:10] <rtg> BenC: the wacom tablet reverts? yes - I looked at upstream. seems to be a superset.
[17:10] <pgraner> BenC: ok... I thought we were there already, I don't track GFS actively...
[17:10] <BenC> pgraner: they aren't compatible, and since fabbione is willing to maintain it (and is upstream for it), we are keeping it around
[17:11] <pgraner> BenC: ack
[17:11] <rtg> pgraner: fabbione says we'll have to carry it another 2 or 3 years
[17:11] <BenC> I'm guessing we can drop it after the next lts
[17:11] <pgraner> rtg: wow, thats a long cycle. Does anyone know what the others distros are doing, if anything different?
[17:11] <rtg> you can bet redhat is carrying it :)
[17:11] <BenC> pgraner: fedora/redhat are keeping it as well (fabbione works for them)
[17:12] <amitk> BenC: can't any of the sauce patches be upstreamed?
[17:12] <amitk> 44d5e51a5199cd4cf939fa3a15e03c85093f3ccd
[17:12] <BenC> amitk: they all need to be reviewed for that, but yes, a lot can
[17:12] <apw> we should probabally do a review across them
[17:13] <pgraner> Thats a UDS discussion
[17:13] <apw> is there a specific session for that?
[17:13] <apw> or is that a beer-tent session
[17:13] <rtg> apw: I think there is a session for it
[17:14] <pgraner> apw: yes
[17:14] <pgraner> Anything else for Jaunty?
[17:14] <rtg> beer tents are too noisy for that sort of thing
[17:14] <BenC> pgraner: lrm is prepped and ready for upload
[17:14] <pgraner> I think we will hammer quite a bit out during UDS
[17:14] <pgraner> BenC: nice
[17:14] <BenC> pgraner: nothing needed to be ported, was a clean compile
[17:15] <amitk> BenC: any plans to replace madwifi HAL?
[17:15] <amitk> and move it out of LRM?
[17:15] <BenC> amitk: gonna leave that to rtg...I have no hardware to confirm it
[17:15] <rtg> amitk: madwifi should just disappear
[17:15]  * amitk nods
[17:15] <BenC> rtg: will ath5k/ath9k be using the newly open sources hal?
[17:15] <amitk> but untile ath5k and ath9k works for everybody...
[17:15] <BenC> *sourced
[17:15] <amitk> *until
[17:16] <rtg> 9k isn't relevant, only 5k. and 5k ought to be a superset by now.
[17:16] <rtg> Luis will be at UDS, we can chat him up about it.
[17:16] <pgraner> [TOPIC] ARM
[17:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
[17:17] <pgraner> amitk: anything new since last week?
[17:17] <BenC> looks like armel built fine with -1.1 upload, so that's a big plus
[17:17] <amitk> wading through a _huge_ patchset that is the diff between Linus' tree and linux-omap tree
[17:17] <apw> is that the like 500k commits one?
[17:18] <amitk> UDS decision to be made: go with linux-omap tree for all -omap flavours OR
[17:18] <rtg> amitk: are you cross compiling ?
[17:18] <amitk> apply several hundred patches to the ubuntu kernel
[17:18] <amitk> rtg: yes
[17:18] <pgraner> amitk: whats the story with the omap tree? when are those patches expected to be in mainline?
[17:18] <amitk> pgraner: another year :)
[17:18] <pgraner> amitk: ouch
[17:19] <amitk> lots of driver fixes needed.
[17:19] <amitk> plus first they go to Russell's tree (linux-arm)
[17:19] <amitk> then on to Linus'
[17:19] <cking> amitk: maintenance nightmare
[17:19] <pgraner> amitk: ok, we will have that as part of the general kernel roundtable. I'm just worried about bug/security divergence
[17:19] <amitk> pgraner: in general it is _possible_ to apply the patches to our tree
[17:20] <amitk> since linux-omap is very uptodate with linus' tree
[17:20] <pgraner> amitk: sounds like its time for a new guy to step up </hint>
[17:20] <amitk> but I'll leave the decision to UDS with some more numbers in terms of patches and effort
[17:20] <pgraner> Ok... anything else amitk ?
[17:21] <amitk> it would help if someone can take lpia burden off for a while...
[17:21] <pgraner> amitk: ok, we can do that next week when we are all together
[17:21] <amitk> ack
[17:21] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:21] <pgraner> Go for it!
[17:22] <apw> where are we with the various blueprints
[17:22] <rtg> rumor has it that pgraner buys all of the beer next week.
[17:22]  * apw remembers that too
[17:22] <amitk> rtg: I heard that one too
[17:22]  * pgraner buys with rtg's credit card
[17:22] <apw> sneaky
[17:22]  * rtg expenses everything
[17:22] <cking> heh
[17:23] <pgraner> apw: we will hit blueprints in the next topic
[17:23]  * pgraner notes that rtg has an answer for everything
[17:23] <pgraner> I guess we can move on then...
[17:23] <ogasawara> we're looking good for bugs getting worked on from the weekly buglist
[17:24] <apw> ogasawara, your list is much easier to work with now thanks again for the updates
[17:24] <pgraner> Oh... sorry ogasawara I forgot to add you back on the agenda. I'll fix now
[17:24] <pgraner> ogasawara: I too like the new format
[17:24] <sconklin> +1
[17:25] <pgraner> [TOPIC] UDS
[17:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS
[17:25] <pgraner> Blueprints are done except for two: kernel-packaging & Kernel Faster Booting
[17:26] <rtg> its on my todo list for today
[17:26] <pgraner> I've got a call with sconklin later today on the packaging one
[17:26] <amitk> guilty as charged. Working on it in bits and pieces
[17:26] <pgraner> rtg: great...
[17:26] <apw> i have some updates to do, but the bulk is there
[17:26] <amitk> hard to write a spec that you don't really agree with...
[17:27] <pgraner> amitk: we need to have it flused out buy the actual session so there is a bit of time
[17:27] <amitk> akc
[17:27] <amitk> ack
[17:27] <pgraner> amitk: its not so much that you agree with it, its about the investigation and making sure we cover all the alternatives
[17:28] <apw> amitk, in a sense being a harsh critic makes you think about the bad points better, and those are just as valid, as are alternative options
[17:28] <amitk> pgraner: just to be sure, this isn't about speeding up boot in general, right?
[17:28] <amitk> it is about booting from a pre-saved image
[17:28] <pgraner> amitk: there are two different blue prints, rtg has Faster boot. You have the presaved image. Much like what we talked about in London
[17:29] <amitk> ok. good.
[17:29] <rtg> amitk: why is fast boot a separate spec?
[17:29] <rtg> isn't pre-saved image just another method for fater boot?
[17:29] <amitk> rtg: because it is not necessary achievable for all hardware? And is bootloader dependent?
[17:29] <pgraner> rtg: the presaved image is a "instant on" type thing
[17:30] <pgraner> I would ask that everyone read all the specs and add to them as you see fit. The more there the better.
[17:31] <rtg> I'll have idle moments during FOSS camp to do just that.
[17:31] <pgraner> Anything else on UDS?
[17:32] <pgraner> I'll take silence as approval....
[17:32] <apw> nothing here
[17:32] <smb_tp> ack
[17:33] <lieb> ack
[17:33] <cking> silent ack
[17:33] <pgraner> Reminder no meeting next week. See everyone at UDS!
[17:33] <apw> see you there!
[17:33] <amitk> bye
[17:33] <BenC> see ya!
[17:33] <dholbach> see you there :-)
[17:33] <smb_tp> till then
[17:34] <pgraner> #endmeeting
[17:34] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:34.
[19:17] <nizarus> @schedule tunis
[20:57] <Burgundavia> hmm, anybody else around?
[20:57] <boredandblogging> hope so
[20:57] <hatemsh> hi all
[20:58] <MaWaLe> hi folks
[20:58] <MaWaLe> hi boredandblogging
[20:58] <Burgundavia> quorum is > 1, sadly
[20:59] <Technoviking> hello
[21:00] <Technoviking> I'm here, my wireless is hazy, may drop off
[21:01] <Burgundavia> so we have two
[21:01] <cody-somerville> I'm around
[21:03] <sabdfl> hello all
[21:03] <Burgundavia> excellent
[21:03] <sabdfl> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[21:04] <sabdfl> is Nick Ali present?
[21:04] <boredandblogging> here
[21:04] <sabdfl> do we have quorum?
[21:04] <Technoviking> 3 of us
[21:04] <boredandblogging> i wrote up some notes on /talk
[21:04] <boredandblogging> i can rehash if needed or clarify
[21:05] <Burgundavia> the first issue the news team calendar?
[21:06] <boredandblogging> Burgundavia: yes
[21:06] <Burgundavia> can we avoid the whole development issue by using google calendar and then feed that into drupal?
[21:06] <boredandblogging> the meeting bot still needs to be fixed
[21:07] <boredandblogging> and thats the main problem
[21:07] <sabdfl> does google calendar not handle the repeating nature?
[21:08] <sabdfl> i.e. can we get a feed from google with repeating events exploded out?
[21:08] <boredandblogging> the google calendar handles it fine
[21:08] <Burgundavia> it would just spit out an ical file
[21:08] <Burgundavia> can we not feed that into drupal and thus the events become non-repeating?
[21:08] <sabdfl> it does spit out ical, but does it also spit out a list of events in another format?
[21:09] <boredandblogging> ical and ics is all I've seen
[21:09] <boredandblogging> reading feeds into drupal is not the easiest thing especially into the event modules
[21:09] <nizarus> ical, xml and html
[21:09] <boredandblogging> feeds are handled completely differently
[21:09] <sabdfl> does the newer drupal codebase work with repeating events?
[21:10] <boredandblogging> we haven't tested it out
[21:10] <boredandblogging> but if it did do it properly, still a meeting bot issue
[21:10] <boredandblogging> but if it did each event separately, it could work
[21:10] <boredandblogging> but I'm not sure why it would break it out
[21:11] <Technoviking> who runs the meeting bot code?
[21:11] <boredandblogging> stdin
[21:11] <Burgundavia> does the ical file lists the events as repeating or one event at a time?
[21:11] <boredandblogging> repeating
[21:12] <sabdfl> it gets even trickier when you have a repeating event that gets moved around for one instance
[21:12] <boredandblogging> correct
[21:12] <sabdfl> i.e. a CC meeting that gets pushed back an hour on a particular week
[21:13] <boredandblogging> yeah, I'm not sure how ical handles that, but right the code would have to consider that
[21:13] <sabdfl> did we develop this bot, or is it something that existed elsewhere that we adapted?
[21:13] <Burgundavia> indeed, my thought
[21:13] <boredandblogging> savveas
[21:14] <sabdfl> is it in python...?
[21:14] <boredandblogging> yeah, its a supybot module
[21:16] <Burgundavia> so you are asking for Canonical resources, essentially?
[21:16] <boredandblogging> heh
[21:16] <boredandblogging> at least finding someone to fix the bot
[21:16] <boredandblogging> anyone who can code and make the changes
[21:16] <Burgundavia> given we at the CC are more of the moral persuasion
[21:16] <Burgundavia> have you tried blogging about it?
[21:17] <sabdfl> i wonder if google's api doesn't allow us to count on it for expanding out the ical file
[21:17] <Burgundavia> apologies if you have, been heads down with school recently
[21:17] <boredandblogging> i haven't blogged about it
[21:17] <sabdfl> i will send off an email to some folks at canonical that just did some work on google calendar scripting
[21:17] <Technoviking> sorry wireless drop off for a minute
[21:17] <sabdfl> i take it that it's sufficient to be able to monitor a google calendar and announce events in a set of channels?
[21:18] <boredandblogging> sabdfl: yeah, we just want to maintain its current functionality
[21:18] <sabdfl> i don't know the full extent of that :-)
[21:18] <sabdfl> ok, i'll send that mail, nick what's your email addy?
[21:19] <boredandblogging> sabdfl: nali @ ubuntu
[21:19] <sabdfl> okdokey, will cc you
[21:19] <sabdfl> hope something good comes out of it
[21:19] <boredandblogging> thanks guys
[21:19] <sabdfl> yann hamon?
[21:20] <Burgundavia> postponed until the 16th
[21:20] <sabdfl> do we have a view on corporate blogs and planet? this came up before with canonical
[21:21] <Burgundavia> as long as it isn't overt advertising, I don't have a major issue with it
[21:21] <Burgundavia> something like Novells PR blog on planet suse is a bit too advertising for me, for example
[21:22] <sabdfl> how about we subscribe to a subset feed?
[21:22] <sabdfl> say, if they explicitly tag it "planet" then we take it?
[21:22] <sabdfl> and then we also hold them accountable for not advertising?
[21:22] <Burgundavia> sure
[21:23] <Burgundavia> maybe we have a trial period?
[21:23] <sabdfl> that makes "publish on planet" a conscious decision, rather than an accident
[21:23] <Technoviking> don't think so, I think it would be fine to have a corporate blog feed to the planet if it is Ubuntu releated, no sales pitch!
[21:23] <Technoviking> +1
[21:23] <sabdfl> i think a review in three months would be useful
[21:23] <sabdfl> if only to say "so far so groovy"
[21:23] <Burgundavia> that works
[21:24] <Technoviking> sounds like a plan
[21:24] <Burgundavia> should we explicitly list the corporate blogs somewhere on the wiki with the rules?
[21:24] <Burgundavia> and how to get added?
[21:24] <sabdfl> where should we document this policy guideline?
[21:24] <Burgundavia> Planet/CorporateBlogs
[21:24] <Burgundavia> ?
[21:25] <sabdfl> if it's just one paragraph, can we add it to the main page?
[21:25] <sabdfl> how about requiring CC approval?
[21:25] <sabdfl> just so we don't get folks adding companies that are almost peripheral
[21:25] <boredandblogging> wouldn't it be better to have a separate planet for it? I would think a lot of companies would be interested
[21:26] <Burgundavia> a corporate ghetto? no thanks
[21:26] <sabdfl> we don't have a concept of "corporate membership" but i think some awareness at CC level would be useful, until it gets bedded down and can be delegated
[21:26] <sabdfl> i agree, a separate planet would be less useful
[21:26] <Burgundavia> corporations can be just as much a part of the community as a person
[21:26] <sabdfl> +1
[21:26] <lifeless> I think it would be great to have the companies deeply into Ubuntu blogging on planet
[21:26] <lifeless> just as a non-cc-member opinion
[21:26] <Burgundavia> we should also encourage their engineers, etc. to create blogs and post about projects they are working on
[21:27] <boredandblogging> just afraid the planet would get swamped, but that can be dealt with later
[21:27] <Burgundavia> subject to normal membership guidelines, etc.
[21:27] <sabdfl> ok
[21:27] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: would you draft a paragraph for the Planet page?
[21:27] <sabdfl> salient points are:
[21:27] <Burgundavia> should we ask that at least one person at the company is a member (strawman, not certain if I like it or hate it)
[21:28] <sabdfl>  - "conscious subsets" of corporate blogs can be published on planet
[21:28] <sabdfl>  - needs to be agreed with CC
[21:28] <sabdfl>  - criteria will be sustained and significant involvement in Ubuntu by the company
[21:28] <sabdfl>  - and no advertising on posts flagged for publishing on planet
[21:28] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: +1
[21:29] <sabdfl> (on the requirement that the company have a member to take responsibility)
[21:29] <Burgundavia> Technoviking: ?
[21:29] <sabdfl> any other bullets folks would add to that list?
[21:29] <Technoviking> +1 on that
[21:29] <boredandblogging> creative commons licensed?
[21:29] <Technoviking> It sounds like a great idea
[21:29] <lifeless> boredandblogging: don't see that that is specific to company blogs
[21:30] <Burgundavia> boredandblogging: enforcing licensing may lead to legal issues that prevent blogging
[21:30] <sabdfl> do we have an existing requirement of CC licensing for planet?
[21:30] <Technoviking> I think posts to the planet would have to be creative commons licenced
[21:31] <sabdfl> i don't think we require that for individuals, do we?
[21:31] <Burgundavia> not currently, unless i have really been sleeping at the switch
[21:32] <Technoviking> I thought we did, but I may be think of the forums post
[21:32] <sabdfl> i take it we have explicit permission, since people subscribe us to their feed
[21:32] <sabdfl> i'm -1 on treating corp blogs differently from a licensing perspective
[21:33] <Burgundavia> yes
[21:33] <sabdfl> Technoviking: ?
[21:33] <Technoviking> that is fine with me, no need for license
[21:33] <sabdfl> other than implied permission to republish
[21:33] <sabdfl> ok
[21:33] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: is that enough for you?
[21:34] <Burgundavia> yep, am working on it right now
[21:34] <sabdfl> okdokey
[21:34] <sabdfl> is that a wrap?
[21:34] <james_w> a related question if you have a moment
[21:35] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: will you cc a copy of that to the UWN folks?
[21:35] <sabdfl> james_w: go for it
[21:35] <Technoviking> is someone from Tunisian LoCo Team here
[21:35] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu/CorporateBlogs
[21:35] <nizarus> o/
[21:35] <Burgundavia> first cut
[21:35] <james_w> does every blog on planet have to be an Ubuntu member, or can you "sponsor" people on to it?
[21:35] <sabdfl> james_w: the former
[21:35] <Burgundavia> interesting idea. why do you suggest it?
[21:35] <james_w> thought so, someone told me otherwise
[21:36] <james_w> "I've done if before and no-one complained" was the line I think :-)
[21:36] <Burgundavia> ahh
[21:36] <Burgundavia> have we actually checked that everybody int eh feed is a member?
[21:36] <sabdfl> that's not *really* the same thing :-)
[21:36] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: i don't think so, no
[21:36] <jcastro> Technoviking: I've been talking to one of the guys about this Tunisian thing
[21:36] <jcastro> Technoviking: I was going to bring it up at a UDS roundtable
[21:36] <Technoviking> jcastro: ok thanks
[21:36] <Burgundavia> do we think it is worth doing?
[21:37] <jcastro> I think so
[21:37] <sabdfl> from a canonical perspective, we have specific decision processes for that
[21:37] <jcastro> I am unsure on who is available and who would want to go and all that.
[21:37] <sabdfl> jcastro is plugged in
[21:38] <Burgundavia> sabdfl: for the corporate blogs page, I am going to circulate on the mailing list for comments before we send it off to the UWN
[21:38] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: +1
[21:38] <sabdfl> on the Tunis question, i think we should let jcastro tackle it
[21:38] <jcastro> I've TODOed it for UDS
[21:38] <sabdfl> if it's appropriate for Canonical to sponsor an Ubuntu member, we'll do that
[21:38] <Technoviking> Burgundavia: looks great: +1
[21:39] <Technoviking> sabdfl: +1, jcastro ftw!!!
[21:39]  * RainCT would like to suggest allowing LoCo Teams to aggregate a feed on planet.ubuntu.com
[21:39] <nizarus> tunisian loco member are here
[21:40] <nizarus> me alibb MaWaLe hatemsh :)
[21:40] <hatemsh> yeh
[21:40] <MaWaLe> here
[21:40] <Technoviking> nizarus: jcastro is going to work with you
[21:41] <nizarus> ok Technoviking
[21:41] <nizarus> sabdfl, you can't attend to it ??
[21:41] <Burgundavia> you need to make a cloning machine with your millions. screw with open source stuff
[21:45] <Burgundavia> hello?
[21:45] <Burgundavia> just to be aware, I have to leave in about 20 minutes
[21:45] <sabdfl> RainCT: i think it better to ask folks to become members
[21:45] <Technoviking> i think we are done
[21:45]  * sabdfl also has to wrap up
[21:46] <Burgundavia> ok
[21:46] <Technoviking> thanks for coming everyone, see some of you next week at UDS
[21:46] <Burgundavia> so still on the agenda for next time is asia pacific board and the artwork guidelines?
[21:46] <Burgundavia> ugh, exam week
[21:46] <Burgundavia> have fun
[21:47] <nizarus> thx all folks
[21:48] <sabdfl> thanks folks!
[21:48] <Technoviking> later all
[21:48] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: +1
[21:48] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: just say "the CC will review in April 2009"
[21:48] <nizarus> sabdfl, waiting for you in Tunisia some days ;-)
[21:49] <MaWaLe> +1 nizarus
[21:49] <sabdfl> nizarus: heh, i would like to come, enjoyed WSIS
[21:50] <nizarus> :)
[21:50] <james_w> WSIS was cool
[21:50] <nizarus> i think we will not have a nex WSIS before 2099 :))
[21:50] <nizarus> nex/new
[21:51] <hatemsh> unfortunatly we orgnise the wsis+3 event
[21:51] <hatemsh> some day ago
[21:51] <hatemsh> in hammamet
[21:52] <hatemsh> james_w,  hope to meet you in the wsis+4
[21:52] <james_w> I'd love to return
[21:52] <hatemsh> you are welcome
[21:53] <hatemsh> in any event and without event
[21:53] <hatemsh> :)
[21:53] <james_w> unfortunately I'm not in that line of work anymore, but you never know :-)
[21:53] <wrtpeeps> somebody call me when this starts
[21:54] <nizarus> james_w, hatemsh gives you an open invitation to visit us so just oing us :)
[21:54] <james_w> excellent :-)
[21:54] <wrtpeeps> oh wait
[21:54] <wrtpeeps> another hour to go
[21:55] <nizarus> it s avilebal for boredandblogging too :p
[21:56] <boredandblogging> nizarus: someday :)
[21:56] <MaWaLe> infact the invitation is available for all ubuntero : it's an open source invitation :p
[22:00] <Burgundavia> guys if you want to talk about the tunisian event, can you move to another channel?
[22:00] <Burgundavia> keeps the logs clear
[22:01] <hatemsh> Burgundavia,  ok
[22:01] <nizarus> sorry Burgundavia we are talking about on #ubuntu-tn
[22:01] <Burgundavia> no worries
[23:00] <Technoviking> hello all
[23:01] <nand> hello
[23:01] <Technoviking> any other FC people here
[23:01] <forumsmatthew> hello
[23:01] <wrtpeeps> hi
[23:02] <Technoviking> Lets give people a couple more minutes
[23:02] <wrtpeeps> Joeb454: :o
[23:02] <Joeb454> ?
[23:03] <forumsmatthew> I am pretty sure ubuntu-geek is driving home atm and will arrive soon
[23:03] <Technoviking> ok
[23:03] <Technoviking> any word from jdong or kiwi
[23:03] <forumsmatthew> I haven't heard from either, but will start pinging
[23:04] <wrtpeeps> how long to these shows generally last?
[23:05] <Joeb454> 8 hours
[23:05] <Technoviking> hourish, usually less
[23:06] <wrtpeeps> gawd
[23:06] <Technoviking> wrtpeeps: problem?
[23:07] <wrtpeeps> newp
[23:09] <Technoviking> Well, we can start but, we will not be able to ote on anything till we get one more FC person for a quoram
[23:10] <forumsmatthew> I would rather wait than have to repeat stuff when others arrive
[23:11] <nand> so do I
[23:12] <forumsmatthew> okay, let's give them a few minutes. I've contacted the missing people. Hopefully they just forgot and are close to their computers and not in the middle of dealing with unexpected problems
[23:13] <stgraber> forumsmatthew: "unexpected problems" ? does that ever happen ?
[23:13] <forumsmatthew> stgraber, lol :)
[23:14] <Joeb454> well there was that one time jdong walked in........no nevermind ;)
[23:18] <Technoviking> hmmm
[23:18] <Technoviking> looks like we are it forumsmatthew
[23:18] <forumsmatthew> Yeah. Bummer.
[23:19] <forumsmatthew> I think we need to reschedule
[23:19] <Technoviking> would people mind delaying a week or so
[23:19] <nand> I guess we have no choice. After UDS then?
[23:20] <forumsmatthew> I think so. We will look at the schedule and get something up asap
[23:20] <nand> okay
[23:20]  * nand is falling asleep
[23:21] <nand> good night all!
[23:21] <forumsmatthew> I'll send an email to the FC mailing list and get the reschedule started and we will post the new date on the wiki
[23:21] <forumsmatthew> night, nand
[23:21] <Technoviking> ok, sorry about that folks, if you have any immediate problem, send them to the forums council mailing list
[23:23] <forumsmatthew> the email has been sent. we will work to get a new meeting time on the wiki soon
[23:23] <forumsmatthew> bye, everyone!