=== chuck_ is now known as zul === jussio1 is now known as jussi01 === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [10:52] @schedule [10:52] Schedule for Etc/UTC: 02 Dec 16:00: Server Team | 02 Dec 17:00: Kernel Team | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team [11:20] hi lifeless. [11:20] hi [11:20] are we meeting? [11:20] or am I time-confused [11:21] i'm not sure. there's nobody on our agenda page [11:21] short meeting then [11:21] yep [11:21] in absence of quorum or applicants, i'm inclined to close it. [11:21] seconded [11:22] and try finish my talk for thursday. === lamont` is now known as lamont === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn [15:35] @now paris [15:35] Current time in Europe/Paris: December 02 2008, 16:35:01 - Next meeting: Server Team in 24 minutes === tritium_ is now known as tritium === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 17:00: Kernel Team | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team [15:58] o/ [15:59] \o [15:59] * mathiaz waves [15:59] \o/ [16:00] Hello. [16:00] yarp yarp [16:01] hey all [16:01] hello [16:01] time to get started? [16:01] all right folks! [16:01] ScottK-laptop: Hi, apachelogger had to go to the hospital because his bf got in a car accident [16:01] let's get this started [16:01] #startmeeting [16:01] Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz. [16:01] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:01] welcome to the Server Team meeting! [16:01] starring... well a lot of interesting people! :) [16:01] o/ [16:02] today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting [16:02] we've got plenty of things to cover this week! [16:02] mathiaz: Did you get my ping about going first? [16:02] I can make it quick. [16:02] ScottK-laptop: hm - I didn't get your ping [16:03] I've only got about 20 minutes and then I need to go. [16:03] ScottK-laptop: oh ok. [16:03] [TOPIC] KDE mysql needs for Jaunty [16:03] New Topic: KDE mysql needs for Jaunty [16:03] KDE has two major packages that use mysql. [16:04] akonadi and amarok. [16:04] JontheEchidna is here also from the Kubuntu team to help me discuss [16:04] \o [16:04] ScottK-laptop: right - I ran into akonadi when I developer the apparmor profile [16:04] ScottK-laptop: I had some dicussion with the upstream devs about it also. [16:05] Good. [16:05] ScottK-laptop: IIRC you introduced me to them [16:05] I wanted to coordinate early to ensure that our mysql packages work with akonadi so we don't have code copies. [16:05] ScottK-laptop: IIRC the current situation is that akonadi starts its own mysql process [16:05] Right. [16:05] http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/79351/ has some background. [16:05] LINK received: http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/79351/ has some background. [16:06] JontheEchidna: Jump in any time. [16:06] ok, heh [16:06] Amarok uses mysqle for music collection management [16:06] I think for that we just basically need to ensure that we have mysql 5.1 for jaunty [16:06] and it looks like that's on the agenda ;-) [16:06] JontheEchidna: right - zul and I have been looking into that [16:06] heh we were just talking about that [16:07] the issue we have for now is that mysql 5.1 doesn't build on jaunty [16:07] or even 5.0 [16:07] One issue I see with amarok is that any time we do post-release updates on mysql, amarok might need rebuilding to get the benifit of the update. [16:07] Given that amarok is using the embedded approach, I don't think that's avoidable. [16:08] ScottK-laptop: IIUC amarok uses the embedded mysql library that comes with 5.1 [16:08] Yes. [16:08] That's why it needs 5.1. [16:08] well once we get mysql to build then I dont see a problem with it [16:09] ScottK-laptop: ok - what would be the consequence of not packaging 5.1 in jaunty? [16:09] So I think somewhere it needs to be written down "If you do a security update of mysql, rebuild amarok against it for Jaunty and follow" [16:09] We need 5.1 in some form for amarok2 (which is the KDE4 version). [16:09] mathiaz: If we don't package 5.1 apachelogger sez that there's a set of two patches we can use to make it work with amarok [16:09] ScottK-laptop: the reason I ask this is because there has been a blog post on planet.mysql.com stating the 5.1 wasn't ready for production [16:10] JontheEchidna: patches for 5.0? [16:10] So either it's packaged by the distro, it's stuffed inside the amarok package, or we're stuck on the KDE3 version again (this is a very bad thing). [16:10] I would assume so [16:10] JontheEchidna: IIUC amarok requires mysql embeded and 5.0 doesn't have support for embededd. [16:10] JontheEchidna: That note he left is about patches to 5.1. [16:10] oh [16:10] nevermind then [16:10] Well amarok2 is at RC stage using it. [16:11] So it must be at least ok'ish. [16:11] Part of the trick here is that amarok is in Main, so this would need to be in Main. [16:12] ScottK-laptop: right - I don't a personal opinion about the state of 5.1 - I've just been watching the MySQL community [16:12] I don't *have* [16:12] One way or another we'll need 5.1. [16:12] * ScottK-laptop nods. [16:12] We did package our own mysql bits for a PPA containing amarok2, so that's a possibility [16:12] Right. That's what we'd like to avoid. [16:12] Who is working on mysql for server team? [16:12] yeah - packaging mysql 5.1 in amarok would make the security team cry [16:13] ScottK-laptop: zul and me mainly [16:13] * jdstrand sniffles [16:13] is this embeded stuff jut a library? [16:13] zul: libmysql is all that's needed at build time [16:13] zul: yeah - it was in 4.0 or 4.1 IIRC [16:13] zul: but 5.0 doesn't ship it. [16:13] JontheEchidna: Maybe you could coordinate with them to pass on what you did in the PPA so they have the advantage of that work. [16:13] so it seems we have one application in main that requires 5.1 [16:13] Yes. [16:13] so 5.1 isn't considered ready for production by mysql themselves? [16:14] brb [16:14] jdstrand: it is now. [16:14] couldnt we jut promote the library and keep everything else in universe for 5.1 if we decide that 5.1 is not stable enough [16:14] jdstrand: 5.1.30 has been declare GA [16:14] jdstrand: Nov 27th [16:14] zul: presumably. [16:14] mathiaz: so our plan is to move to 5.1 whole hog and drop 5.0 support in jaunty? [16:14] or support both? [16:14] jdstrand: that would be one option [16:15] icky.. [16:15] jdstrand: I'd go for 5.1 in main and 5.0 in universe [16:15] mathiaz: that seems reasonable to me [16:15] jdstrand: the same way we have 4.1 in universe [16:15] Does mysql support multiple versions alongside like postgresql does (I'm more familiar with that)? [16:15] however moving 5.1 in main means we'd have to take of the library transition [16:15] I don't want to be supporting two separate releases in main if at all possible [16:16] ScottK-laptop: AFAICT no [16:16] it doesnt [16:16] ScottK-laptop: we have the packaging in a bzr branch, so it should be fairly easy to share [16:16] Any standard Kubuntu install will use akonadi and amarok both. [16:16] JontheEchidna: are you running the test suite during the build? [16:16] So it sounds like akonadi will have to migrate to 5.1 too then to be co-installable. [16:17] mathiaz: I don't know (I've only done updates to the packaging), apachelogger probably would though [16:17] ...but he's not here :( [16:17] is it somewhere now? [16:18] the main issue now is that the test suite fails. [16:18] zul: Am I correct then that since amarok needs 5.1 and it needs to be co-installable with akonadi, that akonadi also needs to use 5.1? [16:18] ScottK-laptop: yes - that's a reasonable assumption. [16:18] oh, maybe he doesn't have it in a bzr branch... [16:19] ScottK-laptop: we could try to support both libmysql 5.0 and 5.1 in main [16:19] mathiaz: OK, so it sounds like Kubuntu pretty well HAS to get 5.1 then. [16:19] but that means the security would have to support two version of mysql [16:19] Once it's akonadi it's more than just the lib. [16:20] Ok - so to summarize [16:20] it seems we have a compeling use case to get 5.1 in jaunty [16:20] zul and I have already been looking into merging 5.1 from experimental [16:20] Amarok2 will be one of Kubuntu's marquee features for Jaunty, so we REALLY need it. [16:21] * JontheEchidna would cry if we had to include JuK [16:21] zul: could you look into the library transition? [16:21] zul: ie have list of package that would need to be rebuild? [16:21] mathiaz: yeah I could [16:22] [ACTION] zul to document the library transition requirement for mysql 5.1 [16:22] ACTION received: zul to document the library transition requirement for mysql 5.1 [16:22] I'll try to get some input on the test failure while working on the 5.1 merge [16:22] mathiaz: How about some action to look into security team's position on supporting two versions in Main. [16:22] [ACTION] mathiaz to look into test build failures of mysql 5.1 [16:22] ACTION received: mathiaz to look into test build failures of mysql 5.1 [16:23] ScottK-laptop: well - jdstrand already expressed his view [16:23] mathiaz: He didn't say no. [16:23] ScottK-laptop: they rarely say no... they always express concerns ;) [16:23] are there any lp entries that I can get mysql engineers to look at to help the cause? I have a bi-montlhy call with a mysql liason [16:23] I am confident in expressing that we do not want to do that if at all possible [16:24] jdstrand: ;-) [16:24] zoopster1: When's the next call? [16:24] ScottK-laptop: having only 5.1 in main mean that akonadi should support 5.1 [16:24] it is a very strong-- "please, please don't" [16:24] :) [16:24] mathiaz: Having 5.0/5.1 not coinstallable means akonadi needs to be 5.1 [16:25] ScottK-laptop: however I don't see why akonadi wouldn't work with 5.1 since it starts it's own mysql process [16:25] ScottK-laptop: IIUC akonadi doesn't use a library [16:25] Agreed, to the extent 5.1 is stable, reliable, etc. [16:25] thurs 1:30 et [16:25] ScottK-laptop: so it just uses SQL [16:25] mathiaz: Well there's your deadline to get some help ^^^ [16:26] Akonadi carries user critical data, so it has to be reliable. [16:26] zoopster1: I'll get in touch with you if I ran into issues. [16:26] ok - let's move on. [16:26] mathiaz: How about an action to let Kubuntu developers know when 5.1 hits the archive and one for us to update akonadi to 5.1. [16:27] OK. Thanks. [16:27] JontheEchidna: Thanks. [16:27] ScottK-laptop: You're welcome [16:27] apachelogger: Thanks (in abstentia). [16:27] [TOPIC] split https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM in multiple sub pages [16:27] New Topic: split https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM in multiple sub pages [16:27] mathiaz: deal [16:27] Have a nice meeting everyone. [16:27] nijaba: what's your brilliant idea? [16:28] no that brillant [16:28] I just think the page is too bug [16:28] big [16:28] and that it could be splitted in sub pages [16:29] but wanted to see if people had objections before doing so [16:29] nijaba: do you have an idea about the structure? [16:29] nijaba: multiple pages could definitely be more effective, done correctly [16:29] mathiaz: not yet, but that would be a theme structure. one sub section will be dedicated to windows guest, that's sure [16:30] nijaba: ok - so the first step would be to come up with the structure [16:31] nijaba: and then content can be moved from the main page to its sub-page [16:31] mathiaz: ok. you can action me on that [16:31] nijaba: great. could you add an item in the roadmap and put up the new structure as bullet points there? [16:31] mathiaz: fine [16:31] nijaba: I don't think we need a blueprint for that [16:32] hope not ;) [16:32] [ACTION] nijaba to add an item about KVM wiki page restructure on the Roadmap and list the new structure [16:32] ACTION received: nijaba to add an item about KVM wiki page restructure on the Roadmap and list the new structure [16:32] [TOPIC] Encrypted home: beta available [16:32] New Topic: Encrypted home: beta available [16:32] kirkland: has an amazing news! [16:33] * jjesse waits exepenctantly [16:33] mathiaz, et al: encrypted home directory code is working well :-) [16:34] I just blogged about it here: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2008/12/ubuntu-jaunty-encrypted-home.html, hoping for some early testers [16:34] two packages affected, in my PPA, adduser, and ecryptfs-utils [16:34] assuming you upgrade those two packages, it's simply a matter of "adduser --encrypt-home foo" [16:34] kirkland: have you done any bench on perf impact? [16:34] and foo's home directory will be setup for total encryption [16:35] nijaba: i did a basic test [16:35] nijaba: i debuild compiled a sufficiently large package [16:35] nijaba: in my encrypted home dir, it took about 19 minutes [16:35] nijaba: in a non-encrypted /tmp dir, it took almost 18 minutes [16:35] hmmm; sounds good! [16:36] nijaba: not very scientific, i know [16:36] nijaba: do we have an filesystem performance testers out there? [16:36] enough for me to be convinced to give it a shot on my test machine [16:36] nijaba: someone that could help benchmark this? [16:36] nijaba: good point ... test machines only at this point [16:36] nijaba: in my PPA, and such [16:36] the file name encryption hasn't landed in the ubuntu kernel yet [16:37] though it is in Andrew Morton's -mm tree [16:37] so its well on its way to upstream adoption [16:37] i do think that should make jaunty's final kernel [16:37] i have a number of other things still to do... [16:37] integrating into the Server and Desktop installers [16:38] and modifying the graphical Users and Groups program to support the option [16:38] in any case, i think the hardest part is behind me ;-) [16:38] so if you have a VM lying around, running Jaunty, please give it a shot ;-) [16:38] kirkland: is the list of TODO items tracked somewhere? [16:39] mathiaz: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/encrypted-home-directory [16:39] kirkland: you could get in touch with the guys at phoronyx to give us an idea on the impact [16:39] mathiaz: in the whiteboard [16:39] mathiaz: i still need to make a full wiki spec for it, at which point i'll migrate those over there [16:39] nijaba: interesting, okay... do you have a contact over there? [16:39] nijaba: those were the guys who trashed Intrepid, though, right? [16:40] kirkland: will get you in touch with them [16:40] nijaba: thanks [16:40] mathiaz: i'll probably shift some focus to encrypted swap now [16:40] kirkland: right - considering that you'll have to write something up for UDS you could start a wiki page now [16:41] mathiaz: as that's critically important to the security of the homedir's data, now, in that any cleartext homedir data *only* lives in memory, which could get swapped to disk [16:41] kirkland: OTOH if these are just minor points, adding to the Roadmap would be enough IMO [16:41] mathiaz: okey doke [16:41] mathiaz: i plan on having a wiki page anyway [16:41] [ACTION] kirkland to create a wiki page for encrypted home directories [16:41] ACTION received: kirkland to create a wiki page for encrypted home directories [16:42] kirkland: anything else on the encrytped front? [16:43] mathiaz: don't think so [16:43] kirkland: any way to have a non-encrypted foler inside an encrypted home directory ? [16:43] (folder) [16:43] Koon: kind of ... [16:43] Koon: ecryptfs at the kernel layer supports something called "passthrough" [16:44] Koon: which would do what you suggest [16:44] Koon: however, there's a couple of bugs (or feature requests) in the kernel ecryptfs filesystem that are keeping this from being feature-complete [16:44] kirkland: just asking :) [16:44] Koon: it's a great, fair question [16:44] allright - let's move on [16:44] Koon: and it's something i hope we're close to fixing [16:44] [TOPIC] likewise-open SRU [16:44] New Topic: likewise-open SRU [16:45] Koon: ^^? [16:45] Well ,testing is now done, thanks to sommer [16:45] it's just waiting for -updates copy [16:46] Koon: great - any other SRU that should be tested? [16:46] mathiaz: nope, I do have a tomcat5.5 hardy SRU waiting for sponsoring though [16:46] Koon: bug number? [16:47] bug 179447 [16:47] Launchpad bug 179447 in tomcat5.5 "Installation of tomcat5.5 fails if openjdk-6 or a JRE is installed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179447 [16:47] Koon: OTOH you'll be a MOTU soon [16:47] Koon: that could be your first upload [16:47] mathiaz: I hope so, so I figured I could do it myself [16:48] [TOPIC] Open discussion [16:48] New Topic: Open discussion [16:48] anything else to add?D [16:48] Koon: I'm pretty sure I uploaded that [16:48] I guess there will be no meeting next week because of UDS, right? [16:48] show of hands, who's attending UDS? :-) [16:48] o/ [16:49] o/ [16:49] nijaba: I was about to discuss that in the next topic [16:49] o/ [16:49] \o\ [16:49] o/ [16:49] james_w: you uploaded the intrepid fix... bug not the hardy SRU [16:49] o// [16:49] Koon: Successfully uploaded tomcat5.5_5.5.25-5ubuntu1.2_source.changes to upload.ubuntu.com. [16:49] ah.hm. [16:49] Koon: I'm trying to work out where it went [16:50] o\ [16:50] Reminder: dendrobates will buy any server team member a beer if they find him at UDS [16:50] Koon: Subject: [ubuntu/hardy-proposed] tomcat5.5 5.5.25-5ubuntu1.2 (Waiting for approval) [16:50] Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:10:08 -0000 [16:50] mathiaz: it should be easier to corner him now [16:51] a picture of him can be found in his LP account - https://launchpad.net/~dendrobates/ [16:52] james_w: ok, so it's in the queue. Thanks, couldn't tell by looking at the bug [16:52] Koon: yeah, I should have added a comment I now realise. You can see it at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text= [16:53] anything else to add? [16:53] have a great time at UDS, guys, drink one or two beers in my name :) [16:53] Koon: will do! [16:53] * Koon still hopes to get private access to the robotic webcam [16:54] [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time [16:54] New Topic: Agree on next meeting date and time [16:54] as nijaba mentioned earlier, UDS will be taking place next week [16:54] and most of us will be there (sorry Koon :/ ) [16:55] so my proposal is to not have a server team meeting next week [16:55] and instead we'll meet again here on IRC in two weeks [16:55] same time, same place, in two weeks? [16:55] sounds good to me === zoopster1 is now known as zoopster [16:56] +1 [16:57] great then [16:57] next IRC meeting in two weeks, same time, same place [16:58] and see most of you at UDS next week (or even earlier for those of you that attend Fosscamp [16:58] thanks for attending! [16:58] #endmeeting [16:58] Meeting finished at 10:58. [16:58] Thanks a lot Mathiaz, see you @ Fosscamp [16:59] thanks mathiaz, later on all [17:00] Time for the Kernel Team Weekly Meeting.... === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team [17:00] #startmeeting [17:00] Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is pgraner. [17:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [17:00] * apw is here [17:01] The agenda can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting [17:01] here [17:01] I wanted to get some admin out of the way first. [17:01] * smb_tp arrives [17:01] here [17:01] * cking here [17:01] We will cancel next weeks meeting due to UDS and resume the following week [17:02] sounds reasonable to me [17:02] [ACTION] pgraner to update wiki, and email notifying of cancellation of next weeks meeting [17:02] ACTION received: pgraner to update wiki, and email notifying of cancellation of next weeks meeting [17:02] [TOPIC] Security and Bugfix Kernels [17:02] New Topic: Security and Bugfix Kernels [17:02] Intrepid [17:03] How do we look? [17:03] all done [17:03] uploaded, propagated, etc [17:03] rtg: anything filling the queue yet? [17:03] lots of SRUs puring in. [17:03] pouring, even [17:04] no CVEs that I'm aware of. [17:04] rtg: great [17:04] Hardy? [17:04] Dapper to Hardy should be done as well for security. And Hardy -proposed also looks good [17:04] Also no new CVEs [17:04] smb_tp: when is proposed getting pushed? [17:05] pgraner, It is already uploaded. Possibly only meta missing [17:05] smb_tp: ok... [17:05] [TOPIC] Jaunty Status [17:05] New Topic: Jaunty Status [17:06] BenC, rtg: ^^^^^^^^^^ [17:06] will upload 2.6.28-2.2 momentarily [17:06] sent out mailing list note [17:06] is there any userspace dependancies as yet? [17:06] rtg: yea just saw that... mail is moving slow today :-( [17:06] its a rebase against 2.6.28-rc7 plus some other patches. [17:07] rtg: how many sauce patches are we carrying? [17:07] dunno, but I actually dropped a couple during this rebase. [17:07] rtg: thats info we need to gather for UDS [17:07] some wacom tablet stuff [17:08] pgraner: 46 [17:08] ...with no reference to 42 [17:08] amitk: about the same as Intrepid ... [17:08] pgraner: sorry, got side tracked on another discussion... [17:09] BenC: no worries... [17:09] talked to fabbione this morning. we need to update gfs as soon as he's got a version ready for .28 [17:09] we have a couple of reverts in the list so there may be a couple fewer [17:09] rtg: Have you reviewed those two reverts to mainline? [17:10] rtg: what about GFS2 I thought that superseded gfs? [17:10] apw: right. I missed that in the quick scan. 44 then. [17:10] pgraner: gfs is meant to allow moving to gfs2 [17:10] BenC: the wacom tablet reverts? yes - I looked at upstream. seems to be a superset. [17:10] BenC: ok... I thought we were there already, I don't track GFS actively... [17:10] pgraner: they aren't compatible, and since fabbione is willing to maintain it (and is upstream for it), we are keeping it around [17:11] BenC: ack [17:11] pgraner: fabbione says we'll have to carry it another 2 or 3 years [17:11] I'm guessing we can drop it after the next lts [17:11] rtg: wow, thats a long cycle. Does anyone know what the others distros are doing, if anything different? [17:11] you can bet redhat is carrying it :) [17:11] pgraner: fedora/redhat are keeping it as well (fabbione works for them) [17:12] BenC: can't any of the sauce patches be upstreamed? [17:12] 44d5e51a5199cd4cf939fa3a15e03c85093f3ccd [17:12] amitk: they all need to be reviewed for that, but yes, a lot can [17:12] we should probabally do a review across them [17:13] Thats a UDS discussion [17:13] is there a specific session for that? [17:13] or is that a beer-tent session [17:13] apw: I think there is a session for it [17:14] apw: yes [17:14] Anything else for Jaunty? [17:14] beer tents are too noisy for that sort of thing [17:14] pgraner: lrm is prepped and ready for upload [17:14] I think we will hammer quite a bit out during UDS [17:14] BenC: nice [17:14] pgraner: nothing needed to be ported, was a clean compile [17:15] BenC: any plans to replace madwifi HAL? [17:15] and move it out of LRM? [17:15] amitk: gonna leave that to rtg...I have no hardware to confirm it [17:15] amitk: madwifi should just disappear [17:15] * amitk nods [17:15] rtg: will ath5k/ath9k be using the newly open sources hal? [17:15] but untile ath5k and ath9k works for everybody... [17:15] *sourced [17:15] *until [17:16] 9k isn't relevant, only 5k. and 5k ought to be a superset by now. [17:16] Luis will be at UDS, we can chat him up about it. [17:16] [TOPIC] ARM [17:16] New Topic: ARM [17:17] amitk: anything new since last week? [17:17] looks like armel built fine with -1.1 upload, so that's a big plus [17:17] wading through a _huge_ patchset that is the diff between Linus' tree and linux-omap tree [17:17] is that the like 500k commits one? [17:18] UDS decision to be made: go with linux-omap tree for all -omap flavours OR [17:18] amitk: are you cross compiling ? [17:18] apply several hundred patches to the ubuntu kernel [17:18] rtg: yes [17:18] amitk: whats the story with the omap tree? when are those patches expected to be in mainline? [17:18] pgraner: another year :) [17:18] amitk: ouch [17:19] lots of driver fixes needed. [17:19] plus first they go to Russell's tree (linux-arm) [17:19] then on to Linus' [17:19] amitk: maintenance nightmare [17:19] amitk: ok, we will have that as part of the general kernel roundtable. I'm just worried about bug/security divergence [17:19] pgraner: in general it is _possible_ to apply the patches to our tree [17:20] since linux-omap is very uptodate with linus' tree [17:20] amitk: sounds like its time for a new guy to step up [17:20] but I'll leave the decision to UDS with some more numbers in terms of patches and effort [17:20] Ok... anything else amitk ? [17:21] it would help if someone can take lpia burden off for a while... [17:21] amitk: ok, we can do that next week when we are all together [17:21] ack [17:21] [TOPIC] Open Discussion [17:21] New Topic: Open Discussion [17:21] Go for it! [17:22] where are we with the various blueprints [17:22] rumor has it that pgraner buys all of the beer next week. [17:22] * apw remembers that too [17:22] rtg: I heard that one too [17:22] * pgraner buys with rtg's credit card [17:22] sneaky [17:22] * rtg expenses everything [17:22] heh [17:23] apw: we will hit blueprints in the next topic [17:23] * pgraner notes that rtg has an answer for everything [17:23] I guess we can move on then... [17:23] we're looking good for bugs getting worked on from the weekly buglist [17:24] ogasawara, your list is much easier to work with now thanks again for the updates [17:24] Oh... sorry ogasawara I forgot to add you back on the agenda. I'll fix now [17:24] ogasawara: I too like the new format [17:24] +1 [17:25] [TOPIC] UDS [17:25] New Topic: UDS [17:25] Blueprints are done except for two: kernel-packaging & Kernel Faster Booting [17:26] its on my todo list for today [17:26] I've got a call with sconklin later today on the packaging one [17:26] guilty as charged. Working on it in bits and pieces [17:26] rtg: great... [17:26] i have some updates to do, but the bulk is there [17:26] hard to write a spec that you don't really agree with... [17:27] amitk: we need to have it flused out buy the actual session so there is a bit of time [17:27] akc [17:27] ack [17:27] amitk: its not so much that you agree with it, its about the investigation and making sure we cover all the alternatives [17:28] amitk, in a sense being a harsh critic makes you think about the bad points better, and those are just as valid, as are alternative options [17:28] pgraner: just to be sure, this isn't about speeding up boot in general, right? [17:28] it is about booting from a pre-saved image [17:28] amitk: there are two different blue prints, rtg has Faster boot. You have the presaved image. Much like what we talked about in London [17:29] ok. good. [17:29] amitk: why is fast boot a separate spec? [17:29] isn't pre-saved image just another method for fater boot? [17:29] rtg: because it is not necessary achievable for all hardware? And is bootloader dependent? [17:29] rtg: the presaved image is a "instant on" type thing === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team [17:30] I would ask that everyone read all the specs and add to them as you see fit. The more there the better. [17:31] I'll have idle moments during FOSS camp to do just that. [17:31] Anything else on UDS? [17:32] I'll take silence as approval.... [17:32] nothing here [17:32] ack [17:33] ack [17:33] silent ack [17:33] Reminder no meeting next week. See everyone at UDS! [17:33] see you there! [17:33] bye [17:33] see ya! [17:33] see you there :-) [17:33] till then [17:34] #endmeeting [17:34] Meeting finished at 11:34. === mdz_ is now known as mdz === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 21:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team [19:17] @schedule tunis [19:17] Schedule for Africa/Tunis: 02 Dec 22:00: Community Council | 03 Dec 00:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 17:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 18:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team === merriam_ is now known as merriam === vorian is now known as heHATEme === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Dec 23:00: Forum Council | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team [20:57] hmm, anybody else around? [20:57] hope so [20:57] hi all [20:58] hi folks [20:58] hi boredandblogging [20:58] quorum is > 1, sadly [20:59] hello [21:00] I'm here, my wireless is hazy, may drop off [21:01] so we have two [21:01] I'm around [21:03] hello all [21:03] excellent [21:03] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda [21:04] is Nick Ali present? [21:04] here [21:04] do we have quorum? [21:04] 3 of us [21:04] i wrote up some notes on /talk [21:04] i can rehash if needed or clarify [21:05] the first issue the news team calendar? [21:06] Burgundavia: yes [21:06] can we avoid the whole development issue by using google calendar and then feed that into drupal? [21:06] the meeting bot still needs to be fixed === heHATEme is now known as vorian [21:07] and thats the main problem [21:07] does google calendar not handle the repeating nature? [21:08] i.e. can we get a feed from google with repeating events exploded out? [21:08] the google calendar handles it fine [21:08] it would just spit out an ical file [21:08] can we not feed that into drupal and thus the events become non-repeating? [21:08] it does spit out ical, but does it also spit out a list of events in another format? [21:09] ical and ics is all I've seen [21:09] reading feeds into drupal is not the easiest thing especially into the event modules [21:09] ical, xml and html [21:09] feeds are handled completely differently [21:09] does the newer drupal codebase work with repeating events? [21:10] we haven't tested it out [21:10] but if it did do it properly, still a meeting bot issue [21:10] but if it did each event separately, it could work [21:10] but I'm not sure why it would break it out [21:11] who runs the meeting bot code? [21:11] stdin [21:11] does the ical file lists the events as repeating or one event at a time? [21:11] repeating [21:12] it gets even trickier when you have a repeating event that gets moved around for one instance [21:12] correct [21:12] i.e. a CC meeting that gets pushed back an hour on a particular week [21:13] yeah, I'm not sure how ical handles that, but right the code would have to consider that [21:13] did we develop this bot, or is it something that existed elsewhere that we adapted? [21:13] indeed, my thought [21:13] savveas [21:14] is it in python...? [21:14] yeah, its a supybot module [21:16] so you are asking for Canonical resources, essentially? [21:16] heh [21:16] at least finding someone to fix the bot [21:16] anyone who can code and make the changes [21:16] given we at the CC are more of the moral persuasion [21:16] have you tried blogging about it? [21:17] i wonder if google's api doesn't allow us to count on it for expanding out the ical file [21:17] apologies if you have, been heads down with school recently [21:17] i haven't blogged about it [21:17] i will send off an email to some folks at canonical that just did some work on google calendar scripting [21:17] sorry wireless drop off for a minute [21:17] i take it that it's sufficient to be able to monitor a google calendar and announce events in a set of channels? [21:18] sabdfl: yeah, we just want to maintain its current functionality [21:18] i don't know the full extent of that :-) [21:18] ok, i'll send that mail, nick what's your email addy? [21:19] sabdfl: nali @ ubuntu [21:19] okdokey, will cc you [21:19] hope something good comes out of it [21:19] thanks guys [21:19] yann hamon? [21:20] postponed until the 16th [21:20] do we have a view on corporate blogs and planet? this came up before with canonical [21:21] as long as it isn't overt advertising, I don't have a major issue with it [21:21] something like Novells PR blog on planet suse is a bit too advertising for me, for example [21:22] how about we subscribe to a subset feed? [21:22] say, if they explicitly tag it "planet" then we take it? [21:22] and then we also hold them accountable for not advertising? [21:22] sure [21:23] maybe we have a trial period? [21:23] that makes "publish on planet" a conscious decision, rather than an accident [21:23] don't think so, I think it would be fine to have a corporate blog feed to the planet if it is Ubuntu releated, no sales pitch! [21:23] +1 [21:23] i think a review in three months would be useful [21:23] if only to say "so far so groovy" [21:23] that works [21:24] sounds like a plan [21:24] should we explicitly list the corporate blogs somewhere on the wiki with the rules? [21:24] and how to get added? [21:24] where should we document this policy guideline? [21:24] Planet/CorporateBlogs [21:24] ? [21:25] if it's just one paragraph, can we add it to the main page? [21:25] how about requiring CC approval? [21:25] just so we don't get folks adding companies that are almost peripheral [21:25] wouldn't it be better to have a separate planet for it? I would think a lot of companies would be interested [21:26] a corporate ghetto? no thanks [21:26] we don't have a concept of "corporate membership" but i think some awareness at CC level would be useful, until it gets bedded down and can be delegated [21:26] i agree, a separate planet would be less useful [21:26] corporations can be just as much a part of the community as a person [21:26] +1 [21:26] I think it would be great to have the companies deeply into Ubuntu blogging on planet [21:26] just as a non-cc-member opinion [21:26] we should also encourage their engineers, etc. to create blogs and post about projects they are working on [21:27] just afraid the planet would get swamped, but that can be dealt with later [21:27] subject to normal membership guidelines, etc. [21:27] ok [21:27] Burgundavia: would you draft a paragraph for the Planet page? [21:27] salient points are: [21:27] should we ask that at least one person at the company is a member (strawman, not certain if I like it or hate it) [21:28] - "conscious subsets" of corporate blogs can be published on planet [21:28] - needs to be agreed with CC [21:28] - criteria will be sustained and significant involvement in Ubuntu by the company [21:28] - and no advertising on posts flagged for publishing on planet [21:28] Burgundavia: +1 [21:29] (on the requirement that the company have a member to take responsibility) [21:29] Technoviking: ? [21:29] any other bullets folks would add to that list? [21:29] +1 on that [21:29] creative commons licensed? [21:29] It sounds like a great idea [21:29] boredandblogging: don't see that that is specific to company blogs [21:30] boredandblogging: enforcing licensing may lead to legal issues that prevent blogging [21:30] do we have an existing requirement of CC licensing for planet? [21:30] I think posts to the planet would have to be creative commons licenced [21:31] i don't think we require that for individuals, do we? [21:31] not currently, unless i have really been sleeping at the switch [21:32] I thought we did, but I may be think of the forums post [21:32] i take it we have explicit permission, since people subscribe us to their feed [21:32] i'm -1 on treating corp blogs differently from a licensing perspective [21:33] yes [21:33] Technoviking: ? [21:33] that is fine with me, no need for license [21:33] other than implied permission to republish [21:33] ok [21:33] Burgundavia: is that enough for you? [21:34] yep, am working on it right now [21:34] okdokey [21:34] is that a wrap? [21:34] a related question if you have a moment [21:35] Burgundavia: will you cc a copy of that to the UWN folks? [21:35] james_w: go for it [21:35] is someone from Tunisian LoCo Team here [21:35] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu/CorporateBlogs [21:35] o/ [21:35] first cut [21:35] does every blog on planet have to be an Ubuntu member, or can you "sponsor" people on to it? [21:35] james_w: the former [21:35] interesting idea. why do you suggest it? [21:35] thought so, someone told me otherwise [21:36] "I've done if before and no-one complained" was the line I think :-) [21:36] ahh [21:36] have we actually checked that everybody int eh feed is a member? [21:36] that's not *really* the same thing :-) [21:36] Burgundavia: i don't think so, no [21:36] Technoviking: I've been talking to one of the guys about this Tunisian thing [21:36] Technoviking: I was going to bring it up at a UDS roundtable [21:36] jcastro: ok thanks [21:36] do we think it is worth doing? [21:37] I think so [21:37] from a canonical perspective, we have specific decision processes for that [21:37] I am unsure on who is available and who would want to go and all that. [21:37] jcastro is plugged in [21:38] sabdfl: for the corporate blogs page, I am going to circulate on the mailing list for comments before we send it off to the UWN [21:38] Burgundavia: +1 [21:38] on the Tunis question, i think we should let jcastro tackle it [21:38] I've TODOed it for UDS [21:38] if it's appropriate for Canonical to sponsor an Ubuntu member, we'll do that [21:38] Burgundavia: looks great: +1 [21:39] sabdfl: +1, jcastro ftw!!! [21:39] * RainCT would like to suggest allowing LoCo Teams to aggregate a feed on planet.ubuntu.com [21:39] tunisian loco member are here [21:40] me alibb MaWaLe hatemsh :) [21:40] yeh [21:40] here [21:40] nizarus: jcastro is going to work with you [21:41] ok Technoviking [21:41] sabdfl, you can't attend to it ?? [21:41] you need to make a cloning machine with your millions. screw with open source stuff [21:45] hello? [21:45] just to be aware, I have to leave in about 20 minutes [21:45] RainCT: i think it better to ask folks to become members [21:45] i think we are done [21:45] * sabdfl also has to wrap up [21:46] ok [21:46] thanks for coming everyone, see some of you next week at UDS [21:46] so still on the agenda for next time is asia pacific board and the artwork guidelines? [21:46] ugh, exam week [21:46] have fun [21:47] thx all folks [21:48] thanks folks! [21:48] later all [21:48] Burgundavia: +1 [21:48] Burgundavia: just say "the CC will review in April 2009" [21:48] sabdfl, waiting for you in Tunisia some days ;-) [21:49] +1 nizarus [21:49] nizarus: heh, i would like to come, enjoyed WSIS [21:50] :) [21:50] WSIS was cool [21:50] i think we will not have a nex WSIS before 2099 :)) [21:50] nex/new [21:51] unfortunatly we orgnise the wsis+3 event [21:51] some day ago [21:51] in hammamet [21:52] james_w, hope to meet you in the wsis+4 [21:52] I'd love to return [21:52] you are welcome [21:53] in any event and without event [21:53] :) [21:53] unfortunately I'm not in that line of work anymore, but you never know :-) [21:53] somebody call me when this starts [21:54] james_w, hatemsh gives you an open invitation to visit us so just oing us :) [21:54] excellent :-) [21:54] oh wait [21:54] another hour to go [21:55] it s avilebal for boredandblogging too :p [21:56] nizarus: someday :) [21:56] infact the invitation is available for all ubuntero : it's an open source invitation :p [22:00] guys if you want to talk about the tunisian event, can you move to another channel? [22:00] keeps the logs clear [22:01] Burgundavia, ok [22:01] sorry Burgundavia we are talking about on #ubuntu-tn [22:01] no worries === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Forum Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team [23:00] hello all [23:01] hello [23:01] any other FC people here [23:01] hello [23:01] hi [23:02] Lets give people a couple more minutes [23:02] Joeb454: :o [23:02] ? [23:03] I am pretty sure ubuntu-geek is driving home atm and will arrive soon [23:03] ok [23:03] any word from jdong or kiwi [23:03] I haven't heard from either, but will start pinging [23:04] how long to these shows generally last? [23:05] 8 hours [23:05] hourish, usually less [23:06] gawd [23:06] wrtpeeps: problem? [23:07] newp [23:09] Well, we can start but, we will not be able to ote on anything till we get one more FC person for a quoram [23:10] I would rather wait than have to repeat stuff when others arrive [23:11] so do I [23:12] okay, let's give them a few minutes. I've contacted the missing people. Hopefully they just forgot and are close to their computers and not in the middle of dealing with unexpected problems [23:13] forumsmatthew: "unexpected problems" ? does that ever happen ? [23:13] stgraber, lol :) [23:14] well there was that one time jdong walked in........no nevermind ;) [23:18] hmmm [23:18] looks like we are it forumsmatthew [23:18] Yeah. Bummer. [23:19] I think we need to reschedule [23:19] would people mind delaying a week or so [23:19] I guess we have no choice. After UDS then? [23:20] I think so. We will look at the schedule and get something up asap [23:20] okay [23:20] * nand is falling asleep [23:21] good night all! [23:21] I'll send an email to the FC mailing list and get the reschedule started and we will post the new date on the wiki [23:21] night, nand [23:21] ok, sorry about that folks, if you have any immediate problem, send them to the forums council mailing list [23:23] the email has been sent. we will work to get a new meeting time on the wiki soon [23:23] bye, everyone! === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Forum Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 03 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team | 04 Dec 14:00: Ubuntu Java