/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/12/02/#ubuntu-mobile.txt

hagisbasherukgood morning 08:09
hagisbasherukAlastair_, any luck ?08:10
Alastair_yea08:30
Alastair_just not with the touchscreen and touchpad :D08:31
hagisbasheruktell me how you got on then08:31
Alastair_btw.08:31
Alastair_http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/08:31
Alastair_easy fix for the wireless problem ^^08:31
Alastair_just install the patch corresponding to your kernel version and architecture and voila... :D08:32
hagisbasherukremember when you do update to get latest linux-backports-modules-kernelNUMBER to go with new kernel08:32
hagisbasherukor you lose wifi again08:33
Alastair_yea... the strange thing is that it said that i have this version in the repo, but there they have only 27-7 :s (i needed 27-10)08:34
Alastair_anyway, it's working :D08:34
hagisbasheruki suggest you findout who wrote touchscreen driver to see if they can help configure it for your screen08:35
Alastair_now if i can fix the touchpad at least i'll be happy :D08:35
Alastair_nah, the touchscreen won't be an easy thing to fix08:36
Alastair_it seems that the only hope so far is for penmount to release a driver...08:36
Alastair_but the touchpad is another deal... there is no reason it shouldn't work otb :/08:37
hagisbasherukwell , i had prob with touchscreen on my MobilePro 900c with Jlime Linux and Kristofer the kernel developer modded the driver for my machine :)08:37
hagisbasherukhe made a debug kernel for me to take down co-ordinates from screen then modded the code just for my machine :)08:39
Alastair_i think there is some sort of conflict between the touchpad and touchscreen over which one should control the pointer08:39
hagisbasherukahh then just blacklist one of them :P08:40
Alastair_how xD08:40
Alastair_i prefer working touchpad over half-working touchscreen...at least for the moment08:41
FreeSoulhi guys :D I've a couple of questions: does ubuntu mobile supports poulsbo chipset? what about marvell wifi? and why when i try it on my Benq MID S6 i don't have the gui as the one of the screenshot online?08:43
hagisbasheruksorry , i lost ability to type Alastair_ :/ hi FreeSoul brb , need a Pee08:44
Alastair_are you sure you aren't mistaking netbookremix and mobile?08:44
Alastair_:D08:44
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: nop, take your time :)08:44
Alastair_nbr is the one with fancy gui08:44
FreeSoulAlastair_: no, i downloaded the one from teh topic and the daily release of 1708:44
Alastair_can you show me the screenshot xD08:45
FreeSoulAlastair_: no :( it's just a list of applications with a top bar with home button, network and so on :)08:45
FreeSoulAlastair_: can you give me the url of the one you mentioned?08:45
Alastair_do you mean this one http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/nbr ?08:46
FreeSoulah no no, wait :)08:47
FreeSoulhttp://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile08:47
hagisbasherukhttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/release/ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img for 7 to 10" screens08:47
FreeSoulanyway Benq MID S6 is a mid, not a netbook, it has 4.8" screen and so on08:47
hagisbasherukso you want http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img 08:48
FreeSoulyeah i've installed exactly that :)08:48
FreeSoulanyway i don't care a lot about gui... i need drivers to work :D08:49
hagisbasherukif you have done an install the look on your usb/flash device for.....08:50
hagisbasheruklinux-backports-modules-2.6.27-7-generic_2.6.27-7.4_i386 in debs folder08:51
FreeSouluhmm no, i runned it as live from usb08:51
FreeSoulwhat this file should do?08:51
hagisbasherukclick on it to install , well thats if they put it on the mid image08:51
hagisbasherukadds missing driver modules08:52
FreeSoulah good!08:52
FreeSouli've tryed some modprobe from the live but with no success. It can only see the bluetooth :) no wifi, no 3g and so on.08:53
hagisbasheruki duno if its on the mid image though but it is on the umpc image08:53
FreeSoulalso the switch on/off is not working08:53
FreeSouli see08:53
Alastair_btw. hagisbasheruk does your integrated mic work ?08:54
Alastair_i can't get mine to work in apps :s08:54
* hagisbasheruk is new to ubuntu-mobile and ubuntu in general but i am sure ogra or some of the other devs can help if you have probs08:54
hagisbasheruki duno Alastair_ 08:54
FreeSoullol, benq mid comes with integrated mic and no software to use it08:55
Alastair_skype ? :D08:55
hagisbasherukso is the integrated mice the mic or frontmic in the mixer ?08:55
Alastair_or the voice recorder that comes with ubuntu08:55
Alastair_frontmic...08:56
Alastair_at least for me08:56
FreeSoulyeah... tryed but there are two problems: no way to make skype work with the sound card and at midinux they didn't set sw keyboard as input for X08:56
Alastair_easy and fast test to see if it works at all - boost it to the max and if there is echo - it's working xD08:56
Alastair_btw. the cam is working too... and for my surprise it's recording at 1280x1024, under vista the max was 640x480 ^^09:00
hagisbasheruktry some of the sound fixes on that aspire page i linked you to yesterday09:00
hagisbasherukooohh :)09:01
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: where is the deb directory supposed to be?09:01
hagisbasheruk"/deb/ on /dev/your_device"09:02
Alastair_hm..09:02
Alastair_the sound system is working just fine, the problem is i can't tell skype or the other programs to use the frontmic as source :s09:02
Alastair_tried alsa&pulse from the sound settings, nothing works :/09:02
hagisbasherukthats why i said see soun fix 09:03
hagisbasherukplug your device into a pc and you will see it FreeSoul 09:04
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: my mid has just one mini usb port. On that i've the usb flash driver with ubuntu live... what else can i don? i'm in / and looking for a deb directory09:05
hagisbasheruki never saw it until i did install as i couldn't access my /dev/sdb usb device as it was in use via the live image09:05
hagisbasheruktype mount to see whats mounted09:06
hagisbasherukbrb , need power cord from downstairs09:06
Alastair_FreeSoul in the flashdrive's root dir there should be deb dir09:07
Alastair_but i'm not sure if there is such a dir in the lpia image09:09
FreeSoulAlastair_: /deb/sdb is mounted as /cdrom and there no deb directory in it. I've casper, preseed, boot.msg, initrd.img, ldlinux.sys syslinux.cfg09:09
FreeSoulyep, i'm running lpia09:09
Alastair_yeah... no backports for you then :/09:10
FreeSoulyeah :)09:10
Alastair_what's the model of the wifi chipset ?09:10
FreeSouldamn i've the damn sensation i'll must use this stupid Midinux still for lot of time....09:10
FreeSoulAlastair_: it should be a marvell wifi09:11
FreeSouli need to reboot mid to find it out09:11
FreeSoulrebooting in midinux :)09:11
FreeSoulanyway, i'd like to know why they did such a mess at Midinux09:12
Alastair_http://www.google.bg/search?hl=bg&q=ubuntu+lpia+marvell&btnG=%D0%A2%D1%8A%D1%80%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5&meta=09:12
Alastair_at least you're not alone xD09:12
FreeSoulyes.... but really, it was lot lot of time that i didn't saw anything so bad designed09:13
FreeSoulAlastair_: marvell 8686_v909:14
hagisbasherukmabey you can perswade someone to add your driver to the mid image ;) if you cannot get the linux-backports-modules file on your device09:14
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: i really dunno who to write to. I've managed to contact also benq mid s6 product manager!09:15
Alastair_hagisbasheruk, he is using different architecture, there's no backports package for him :D09:16
FreeSouli've also drivers source code that are in Midinux09:16
hagisbasherukwhat cpu does it have ?09:16
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: atom 800MHz09:16
Alastair_atom :?09:17
FreeSoulintel atom09:17
Alastair_weren't the atoms i38609:17
hagisbasherukso linux-backports-modules is what he needs09:17
FreeSoulAlastair_: yes, it's a damn x86 :)09:17
Alastair_try this09:18
Alastair_http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27-10-generic_2.6.27-10.8_i386.deb09:18
FreeSoulit's Intel Atom Z50009:18
Alastair_i thought it was with some kind of xscale09:18
hagisbasherukdownload the file to your devices memory / boot ubuntu mid and mount your memory device and install file09:19
FreeSoulAlastair_: oh, no, please no :)09:19
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: ok man :)09:19
Alastair_well, if it's x86 the file from the link must work...09:19
Alastair_hm... btw. w809:20
Alastair_what's your kernel's version xD09:20
Alastair_this package is for 2.6.27-10...09:20
FreeSoul2.6.22.18-209:20
FreeSoulAlastair_: of course it will use kernel from ubuntu live that is 2.6.2709:21
hagisbasheruknice device bye the way :)09:21
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: yes, nice device, damn horrible software09:21
FreeSoulor, better, worst "linux" (yes, they call it linux) system ever09:21
Alastair_http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.22/09:21
Alastair_i can't find 2.6.22-18 :s09:22
hagisbasherukuname -r in your terminal FreeSoul to determine ubuntu kernel09:22
hagisbasherukyou need the right file to go with it09:22
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: now i'm running midinux... to download the deb file, it's 2.6.22.18-209:23
FreeSoulafter reboot i'll use lpia kernel that is 2.6.2709:23
hagisbasherukahh :) so you need one from http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/09:26
Alastair_i think the i386 package won't install on it, but you can always try xD09:26
FreeSoulwhy should it not install? i hope it will not ask for dependecies09:28
hagisbasherukit should09:28
hagisbasherukinstall09:28
Alastair_nope, at least it didn't ask me... but i think there is a reason they have two images (i386 and lpia xD )09:29
FreeSoullol09:29
FreeSoulthis will be one of last tests i'll do... next I'll take plane for China, go at Midinux headquartier and I'll kill everybody :D09:30
hagisbasheruklpia is Low Power Intel Architecture09:30
Alastair_idk if they are different architectures tho xD09:30
Alastair_maybe i'm just thinking too much xD09:30
hagisbasheruklinux-backports-modules-2.6.27-7-generic_2.6.27-7.4_i386 in debs folder , its i38609:30
FreeSouldamn i've downloaded 2.6.27-10_i386!09:31
FreeSoulok i'm booting ubuntu... let's see09:31
Alastair_that's why i told you to watch out for the version09:31
hagisbasheruksame but one is compiled with flags for power saving stuff for atom09:31
Alastair_if you haven't updated the installation it probably uses 2.6.27-709:31
Alastair_hmmm09:32
FreeSoulAlastair_: i'm booting from live... i check the kernel version, i try to install -10 and if it fails i go back to midinux, download -7 and repeat the step09:32
hagisbasherukFreeSoul, just uname -r in terminal first to see what kernel you have09:33
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: yes yes i know, i'm sysadmin :)09:33
hagisbasherukthe pic same as for modules09:33
hagisbasherukok :P09:33
FreeSouldamn :) it's 2.6.27-4 :)09:34
FreeSoulok i try to install -10 anyway :)09:35
Alastair_don't do stupid things xD09:35
FreeSoullol09:35
hagisbasherukwait ill get you file09:36
Alastair_http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/linux-headers-lbm-2.6.27-7-server_2.6.27-7.4_i386.deb09:36
Alastair_27-7.4 or 27-4 ?09:36
FreeSoul2.6.27-409:37
Alastair_no backports for that...09:38
Alastair_and i gave you the wrong link anyway xD09:38
Alastair_you don't need server headers xD09:38
FreeSouljust to know... i'm not a ubuntu/debian user. to install a from a local package? apt-get install file.deb?09:41
Alastair_nope, just doubleckick it09:41
Alastair_installing from terminal involves dpkg, not apt-get09:42
FreeSoulhere it says: packages list... done, building dependecy tre... done, could not file file bla bla.deb09:42
FreeSoulok09:42
FreeSouljust for fun, how to install from terminal?09:42
FreeSouldpkg ?09:42
Alastair_dpkg --help :D09:42
FreeSoulok09:42
FreeSouldamn! trying to install the -10 (ok don't worry about version) it says that kernel arch is lpia, not i386!09:44
FreeSoulbrb09:44
hagisbasherukahh ...09:46
FreeSoulback :)09:48
hagisbasherukgoogle is not my friend today , i am too sleepy09:48
FreeSoulso with the arch problem may be a huge one09:48
hagisbasheruknah , just idle her till devs wake09:48
hagisbasherukhere*09:49
FreeSoulauihaiuhaiuhaiuhaiuah how not :)09:49
FreeSouli'm sure they will magically switch on on their own09:49
hagisbasherukwhile you wait you might like to read , very good reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekintrepid/UMPC09:50
FreeSoulhagisbasheruk: yep but this umpc related09:51
FreeSoulam i wrogn?09:51
hagisbasherukstill give insite into whats happening 09:52
FreeSouli can tell you also a nice new.... it's happening that intel is not releasing public updated drivers for this devices... and consider that the drivers inside Midinux are written by intel 09:53
FreeSoulwasn't mandriva making something for mids? am i wrong? I really hope not be forced to use mandriva :) but it's for sure, better then midinux :P09:55
hagisbasherukbrb 10 mins need cuppa and toast09:57
Alastair_http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3912&start=1510:01
Alastair_btw. for keyboard you can try cellwriter10:02
Alastair_virtual kb for touchscreen devices, it's included in the umpc version10:03
FreeSoulAlastair_: it's me the TDFS there, i wrote the review :)10:07
hagisbasheruk:)10:12
hagisbasherukno bread left , i am not going out in that snow , settled for a couple of small pork pies for breakfast :)10:16
FreeSoul:P10:17
Alastair_aw, i'm making crème caramel for lunch xD10:28
FreeSoulAlastair_: :)10:29
hagisbasherukmmm...10:29
FreeSoulwhen is it planned next mid release?10:29
Alastair_april 2009...10:29
FreeSoulahahhahahahaa10:29
FreeSoul5 months!10:30
Alastair_but maybe they'll release beta/alpha before that10:30
FreeSoulAlastair_: yeah i regurarly try the daily build10:30
hagisbasherukyup 9.04 , ie 2009 04 month10:30
FreeSouli'm quite sure Benq will give still no updates... even if they are promising.... who wanna bet? :)10:31
Alastair_most manufacturers tend to do that :/10:31
FreeSouli think they are just damn stupids!10:31
FreeSoula device without drivers... what the hell do they think user will buy it for?? to see in switched off on the desk?10:32
Alastair_as soon as they reap the initial profit they gradually leave the support for their devices lying in the dust xD10:32
FreeSoul Alastair_i think i'm one of the poor stupid dreamers with hope in mid devices...10:33
Alastair_yea, i hope they drag more attention to them, but we'll see10:33
FreeSoulyep...10:34
Alastair_i even considered to buy nokia n810 or the new giga with 7" screen10:34
FreeSoulanyway i think i'll never buy anything from benq again10:34
Alastair_cuz the netbook ain't that easy to use while on foot :D10:34
FreeSoulAlastair_: n810 is nice but with small screen resolution... an all 7"+ staff can't fit in your pocket10:34
FreeSoulAlastair_: yep, you can't bring it anywhere10:35
Alastair_nah, i take it everywhere with me and it's pretty usefull, just not comfortable to use while walking on the street10:36
FreeSoulAlastair_: hahah10:36
Alastair_it's tablet, not regular one ;)10:37
FreeSouluh, much better10:37
FreeSoulwith linux?10:37
hagisbasherukARM are getting in on the netbooks with ubuntu suporting them , i look forward to a netbook from them that will last all day on 1 charge10:37
Alastair_untill yesterday it was with vista10:37
FreeSoulAlastair_: now? ubuntu?10:37
Alastair_yea10:37
FreeSoulnice :)10:38
Alastair_still has some problems, but i hope they'll be fixed soon10:38
hagisbasherukAlastair_, do you still have vista on it olso ?10:38
FreeSouli damn need an os for my mid....10:38
Alastair_nope, the vista is gone xD10:38
Alastair_why don't you start a thread in the forums10:40
Alastair_maybe someone'll help you there...10:40
hagisbasheruki really didn't like vista , i tried it on my Acer Aspire One A150 , ran great but it sux as an OS , Mac OSX86 is great on it though :)10:40
Alastair_i don't like it either, but i can't remove it from my main pc yet :/10:41
Alastair_the day valve ports their source engine to linux i'll never touch windows again ^^10:42
hagisbasherukmy misses now has my pc since i got the AAO , she has XP Media Center Edition10:43
FreeSoulby guys, c ya! thanks for helping me10:43
FreeSoulhave a nice day10:43
hagisbasherukcya10:43
Alastair_later.. :D10:43
hagisbasheruku 210:43
FreeSoul:)10:43
Alastair_i made a 2nd pc for that purpose :p10:44
Alastair_the main rig is mine and mine alone :D10:45
hagisbasheruki just share files/drives on the network so that gives me access to my movies and music etc without having to have them on my netbook :)10:49
hagisbasherukgreat for installing unreal tournament etc in linux10:50
hagisbasherukplus netbook has no cdrom drive10:51
hagisbasherukquake3 runs great on this :)10:51
hagisbasheruki was very surprised10:52
Alastair_nah, i'm more addicted gamer...10:53
Alastair_that's why i keep the windows installation :/10:53
Alastair_but if they release some of my favourite games on linux i'll definitely move forever10:53
hagisbasheruki have ps3/xbox360/wii/ds/gizmondo for that10:54
Alastair_i had ps3 and x360, it's just not the same :/10:54
Alastair_on top of that after the thousands of euro spent on the pc i don't want it to be just a home cinema ^^10:55
hagisbasherukvirtualbox is very good , well on my pc anyway , q3 ran great, never tried crysis though10:55
Alastair_yea about that...10:56
Alastair_what's the deal ?10:56
Alastair_does it bring native performance in the games or... ?10:56
Alastair_never quite understood the concept.. :s10:56
hagisbasherukinstall it and then install a os to run on it then u have windows on linux10:56
hagisbasheruknear native speed now10:57
Alastair_interesting10:57
hagisbasherukso should run everything fine :)10:57
Alastair_after my new drive arrives i'll try it xD10:57
hagisbasherukwhat cpu u got ?10:58
Alastair_q6600 @ 4.1g10:58
Alastair_it's running at 3.6 most of the time tho...10:58
Alastair_way too much heat and wasted electricity otherwise xD10:58
hagisbasherukahh so that will be great with vbox10:59
Alastair_what about the video ?10:59
hagisbasherukkill windows on your pc10:59
hagisbasherukits fine11:00
Alastair_i mean how does it work... do i have to install drivers in the guest os or something ?11:00
hagisbasheruki must try virtual box on this :) todAY11:00
Alastair_i can't... i deleted the ubuntu cuz i ran out of space... i purchased a new hdd but it won't be here for a few more days...11:01
hagisbasherukinstall it , run it ,make virtual drive, install XP , Vista or Linux, install games , smile :)11:01
hagisbasherukbrb11:02
Alastair_i wish i was in the US :/11:04
hagisbasherukwhy11:04
Alastair_we have to wait so much time to get exotic hardware here... not to speak about the price -.-11:04
hagisbasheruki buy straight from hong kong / china mostly now11:05
Alastair_i buy from germany... mostly... but the shipping is so damn slow...11:06
hagisbasherukyes , 2 weeks from hongkong/china11:07
Alastair_where are you ?11:07
hagisbasherukstill in bed11:08
hagisbasheruk:) i am on holiday11:08
hagisbasheruksnow outside11:08
hagisbasherukScotland :P11:09
Alastair_^^11:09
Alastair_well, china is in another continent xD11:09
Alastair_but germany is some 1500km from me...11:09
Alastair_there's no logic why i have to wait 2 or more weeks for a simple lightweight package :/11:10
hagisbasheruki would have that in 1-2 days here in the UK11:10
Alastair_this is some glitch that happened when DHL transfered their shipping service to the national postal service11:13
Alastair_before that my packages arrived in max 3-4 days11:13
Alastair_doesn't matter anyway... if it doesn't come soon i'll go buy HD103UJ...11:15
Alastair_at least they can be found on our market :s11:15
Alastair_and are extremely cheap ^^11:16
hagisbasherukback l8a , got housework to do11:23
filipegarciahow can i record the mobile usb image in a cd?14:35
filipegarciai try but it doesn't boot14:35
hagisbasherukit is a disk image dd if=imagename.img of=/dev/usbdevicename14:36
filipegarciayes i know, but i have to install in a old pc that doesn't support usb boot14:37
hagisbasherukconvert img to a bootable iso and burn14:40
filipegarciai try that also but then the cd doesn't boot14:43
hagisbasherukwhat os is o the pc now ?14:44
hagisbasherukfilipegarcia, ?14:46
filipegarciaxp14:46
hagisbasherukokay do you have usb ?14:47
filipegarciayes14:47
hagisbasherukand usb flash card ?14:47
filipegarciayes14:47
hagisbasherukupdate the bios of the old pc to get usb boot option14:48
hagisbasherukor download puppy linux live cd and burn that and boot into puppy with image file on the usb flash14:49
filipegarciaok, thanks 14:49
hagisbasherukmount your hdd and usb , move image to hdd and then dd if=image.img of=/dev/sdb or whatever your usb will be14:50
hagisbasherukohh that still wont help14:51
filipegarciabecause it wont boot also 14:52
filipegarciai guess the update bios would be the better choice 14:52
filipegarciabut it's lot of work also14:53
hagisbasherukyou need magic iso run that in XP and make iso from img14:53
filipegarciabut i can record the img to the cd 14:56
hagisbasheruktry magic iso and make cd bootable14:58
hagisbasherukbrb14:59
filipegarciaok15:01
hagisbasherukback15:06
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
=== fta_ is now known as fta
=== merriam_ is now known as merriam
=== hagisbasheruk is now known as haggis-AAO-umpc
haggis-AAO-umpchi Alastair 23:20
Alastairhi23:39
Alastair:D23:39
haggis-AAO-umpcany progress ??23:39
Alastairnah, i just got back, haven't played with it...23:39
Alastairbtw.23:40
haggis-AAO-umpci have been tweeking my video and got sdcard readers working here23:41
Alastairon the vurtiabox forums i saw some posts that it doesn't support direct3d, only directdraw... how do you play 3d games o_O23:41
haggis-AAO-umpcohh .... mabey i played them in wine23:41
Alastairhmm.. ? what tweaking xD i thought the intel driver does all the work23:42
Alastairbtw. my cardreader works otb :s23:43
haggis-AAO-umpchttp://www.winehq.org/23:43
Alastairyesterday i tested it with my photo's card...23:43
haggis-AAO-umpc:)23:44
haggis-AAO-umpcdo the tweeks from that acer aspire one link and you gain some FPS23:45
haggis-AAO-umpcin GL screensavers are 2 times as fast23:46
Alastairwine works, but it's far from a solution :/23:47
Alastairi played hl1:source hl2 and it's episodes through wine, but it's just not the same as native environment...23:47
haggis-AAO-umpci am sure there was a plugin for virtualbox that gave 3d acceleration23:48
Alastairand i hear l4d is even worse :/23:48
Alastairdoes your syndaemon work ?23:49
Alastairmine says i'm missing shmconfig or something23:50
haggis-AAO-umpcyup23:52
Alastairyup it works, or yup you're missing shmconfig too xD23:53
haggis-AAO-umpcduno , how to test23:54
Alastairopen terminal and type syndaemon23:54
haggis-AAO-umpcyup , it works23:55
Alastaircan you post me your xorg.conf in private ?23:56
haggis-AAO-umpci see enable and dissable when i type and move the pad23:56
haggis-AAO-umpc sudo syndaemon23:56
haggis-AAO-umpc2 secs23:57
Alastairmine says "Can't access shared memory area. SHMConfig disabled?"23:57
Alastairprobably that's why my touchpad doesn't work23:58

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!