[00:17] <ScottK> NCommander: How goes armel and kde4bindings?
[01:11] <NCommander> ScottK, I know the problem, discussing with upstream on the fix
[01:13] <NCommander> ScottK, the problem is that qreal != double on ARM
[02:12] <ScottK> NCommander: I'd appreciate it if you'd push your changes via the bzr repo when you have them.
[02:13] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ^^ You too.
[02:37] <ScottK> So I put mine there.
[02:37] <NCommander> ok
[05:06] <ScottK-laptop> JontheEchidna: You awake?
[05:09] <ScottK-laptop> I guess not.
[08:54]  * Riddell off to San Francisco, ciao
[09:44] <doc__> hi there
[10:13] <lool> apachelogger: Hey, around?
[10:14] <lool> apachelogger: The kde4bindings issue you mentionned needs some upstream advice
[10:14] <lool> apachelogger: Could you recommend someone from kde4bindings upstream or kdelibs which would help us move the issue forward?  (it was forwarded upstream by NCommander  already)
[10:15] <lool> apachelogger: Basically kdelibs mixes qreals and doubles in its API and sip generates improper code as the result, either or both of these need to be fixed, but we need to discuss this with upstream to make sure we don't try to fix sip when it might not be one of its goals, or change kdelibs when it was the proper type to use
[10:17] <lool> Crap the kde4bindings regression now breaks kdebase-workspace as well
[10:27] <NCommander> lool, ?
[10:27] <lool> NCommander: python-kde4 not installable (see armel build log)
[10:28] <NCommander> Well python-kde4 is built out of kde4bindings ...
[10:28] <NCommander> (and that's specifically what's FTBFSing in kde4bindings :-))
[10:51] <lool> NCommander: "< lool> Crap the kde4bindings regression now breaks kdebase-workspace as well"
[12:28] <NCommander> lool, how is it a regression, it never built before :-)
[12:33] <lool> NCommander: It built for me here
[12:33] <NCommander> it never built on the builders
[12:33] <lool> Wouldn't build at the time I uploaded it because I came just after some new kde uploads
[12:33] <NCommander> kdebindings is a different package
[12:33] <lool> What do you try to do?
[12:34] <NCommander> huh?
[12:34] <ScottK> lool: Did you see we have a bzr repo for kde4bindings now?
[12:34] <ScottK> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdebindings/ubuntu
[12:34] <lool> ScottK: Oh cool, no I didn't
[12:34] <lool> ScottK: I've been following the issue closely, but NCommander has been doing the analysis and is trying to write a patch
[12:35] <lool> ScottK: It's likely that NCommander comes up with a kdelibs patch first AIUI
[12:35] <NCommander> lool, got the patch
[12:35] <ScottK> lool: OK.  I know he knows about it already.
[12:35] <NCommander> need to compile it to see if my fix will actually work
[12:35] <lool> ScottK: Will all kde packages be imported like this?
[12:36] <ScottK> lool: Yes, but we went ahead with this one first because yesterday we had literally 3 different people working on 4 different problems in the package.
[12:36] <ScottK> apachelogger is getting it set up.
[12:36] <ScottK> We tried this once before in Gutsy and it was just too slow to be usable then.
[12:37] <NCommander> Why don't we just install git on something ...
[12:37] <NCommander> *runs*
[12:39] <lool> ScottK: Are these branched from the Debian packaging repo in some way?
[12:39] <ScottK> lool: No.
[12:48] <apachelogger> lool: Sime is the pykde dood, for kdelibs you can just go to #kde-devel and start crying ;-)
[12:49] <apachelogger> lool: apparently dfaure is around, he knows a fair about kdelibs
[12:52] <apachelogger> accessibility, admin, artwork uploaded
[12:58] <lool> apachelogger: Ok, thanks
[13:03] <apachelogger> edu, games and graphics uploaded
[13:06] <lool> NCommander: I poked dfaure and he said that kdelibs needs fixing but we should ask on kde-core-devel@ in case someone has an objection (due to the abi change on arm / wince)
[13:07] <NCommander> lool, cool. Thank you, assuming my patches work the way they are supposed to, I'll post to the list
[13:07] <lool> NCommander: thanks
[13:13] <lool> NCommander: I'd love being Cc:ed when you send the patch to the kde list! :)
[13:14] <NCommander> You shall :-)
[13:14] <lool> thanks
[13:14] <NCommander> (I need to make sure we're not going to break something unexpectantly, it seems fine on x86, so if we can get kde4bindings to build, we probably can get the rest of KDE to build)
[13:17] <ScottK> What the equivalent of kdesvn for bzr?
[13:17] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: got your email
[13:18] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I sent you email?
[13:19] <apachelogger> multimedia, pim and plasma-addons uploaded
[13:19] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: about bzr, I assume that's what you pinged me about?
[13:19] <apachelogger> ScottK: qbzr
[13:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: No.
[13:19] <apachelogger> ScottK: it doesn't have a complete gui though
[13:19] <JontheEchidna> oh, you sent that to -devel
[13:19] <ScottK> Yes.
[13:19] <ScottK> apachelogger: Thanks.
[13:20] <apachelogger> ScottK: you have to access the individual parts manually (bzr qdiff or bzr qlog for example)
[13:20] <ScottK> No, the reason I pinged you is there's a guy on #ubuntu-motu (aib) looking for help with packaging a cmake based project.
[13:21] <JontheEchidna> oh
[13:22] <JontheEchidna> Does he still need help?
[13:22]  * JontheEchidna uploads the rest of KDE to k-u-t
[13:27] <apachelogger> sdk, toys, utils and webdev uploaded
[13:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: congrats to your first release packaging coordination
[13:28] <apachelogger> next time you shouldn't exceed the release day by 1.4 weeks :P
[13:28] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'd imagine.  It'd be nice if someone who understood cmake at least said hi to him.
[13:29] <JontheEchidna> I guess I should hang out in #ubuntu-motu more
[13:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: He's wanting to package http://grey.colorado.edu/emergent (he's upstream) and they've moved to cmake in their latest release.
[13:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: You should.  It'll help when you submit your MOTU application.
[13:30] <apachelogger> that app looks interesting, the icon more like crap though
[13:38] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: so what can we do next time to make sure packaging takes longer? Start packaging the week of Christmas? :P
[13:40] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK.  I've installed qbzr.  Where does it's documentation hide?  /usr/share/doc/qbzr has debian/changelog and copyright in it.
[13:41] <apachelogger> ScottK: http://bazaar-vcs.org/QBzr
[13:41] <apachelogger> also bzr help $COMMAND
[13:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: we should be quicker next time due to reduced fiddeling, it is crucial that we a) get the stack 100% finished ASAP b) get everyone to use the hooks c) enhance QA with new batscripts
[13:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK, so what's the $EXPLITIVE command to actually make the gui start?
[13:43] <ScottK> Or is it I have to start the GUI per command?
[13:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: that is what I tried to communicate earlier ;-)
[13:45] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK.  Got it now.
[13:45] <ScottK> So it's a GUI that you need to know command line commands to invoke.
[13:45] <ScottK> Sounds like they collaborate with Launchpad developers.
[13:46] <apachelogger> ^_^
[13:46] <apachelogger> ScottK: they just didn't came round to make a gui around the gui AFAIK
[13:46] <ScottK> apachelogger: Thanks again for the pre-brief on the mysql stuff.
[13:47] <ScottK> It seems that went reasonably well.
[13:47] <apachelogger> *nod*
[13:52] <apachelogger> \sh: will the poor kubuntu ninjas get a server for their magic?
[13:52] <apachelogger> I just thought of yet another usecase ;-)
[13:52]  * ScottK notices debian Bug #507655 and wonders if someone is interested?
[13:54]  * apachelogger looks and hopes that doesn't beak KDE like the last LUKS effort did
[14:37] <ScottK> asac just pointed me at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-3.0.head/revision/380
[14:39] <JontheEchidna> whoa, I thought they weren't gonna do that
[14:40] <hunger> Ho.
[14:41] <hunger> apachelogger: What is the status of KDE 4.2 in jaunty? Made any progress yet?
[14:41]  * hunger is  currently running gnome since KDE 4.2 does not work at all here:-(
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> hunger: everything except kdenetwork should be uploaded by now, I think
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> its building right now
[14:43] <apachelogger> asac++
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> ~karma asac
[14:44] <kubotu> karma for asac: 1
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> ~karma
[14:44] <kubotu> karma for JontheEchidna: 2
[14:45] <hunger> Great!
[14:45] <hunger> Thanks guys!
[14:46] <ScottK> Wahoo!  Spam folder is now under 20,000 (I didn't look at it for 6 months).
[14:47] <jjesse> wow
[14:47] <apachelogger> gmail++ for throwing that stuff away automagically
[14:47] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Are you running Intrepid?
[14:47] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: yus
[14:48]  * JontheEchidna is not crazy enough to run Jaunty yet
[14:48] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Now that 4.1.80 is pretty well in the can, would you be up for coordinating validation of 4.1.3 so we can get it into -updates.
[14:48]  * ScottK thinks 4.1.4 will be here soon ....
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> 4.1.4 is going to be a bit later than usual since they're shifting focus to KDE 4.2
[14:49] <ScottK> It doesn't seem to be happening by itself and so someone needs to take the bull by the horns ....
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> I think I did verification for a few of the packages, I think I can do the rest too
[14:50] <ScottK> Right.  It gets tagged in a week.
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> oh man, already?
[14:50] <ScottK> Yeah.
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> KDE 4.2 beta2 gets tagged in a week too
[14:50] <apachelogger> funnies
[14:50] <jjesse> wow it never slows down for you all does it?
[14:50] <ScottK> Well if it wasn't later, it'd have been tagged a week ago.
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> thankfully for us...
[14:51] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: we might need two bat teams for this
[14:51] <ScottK> Well this is the POC for KDE4 into -updates. If this goes well it should be smoother next time.
[14:52] <ScottK> Beta 2 should be a lot easier than beta 1 though.
[14:52] <JontheEchidna> yeah, usually we can at least develop the packaging by building against the old versions
[14:52] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: as captain janeway put it "The minute we split up we loose every advantage this crew got." :P
[14:52] <ScottK> Lesson learned for next time is get 4.2 -> 4.3 done before the 4.3 beta so we've got the kinks out before the beta hits and people care.
[14:53] <apachelogger> ScottK: only hunger really cares about it ;-)
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I am in awe at your vast repository of Star Trek-like wisdom
[14:53] <apachelogger> but, think about it... that could have been a lot worse with the hardy vs. intrepid packaging
[14:53] <apachelogger> backporting is really just adding a changelog entry nowadays
[14:54] <apachelogger> in fact, we could streamline that process
[14:54] <JontheEchidna> It's packaging 4.1.4 and 4.2b2 at the same time that worries me
[14:54] <apachelogger> NCommander: I just took a look at the changes JontheEchidna and I did to the packaging you sent... you didn't add new files to any .install, didn't notice that 3 new games were added and sent one that FTBFS
[14:54] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: he expected it to FTBFS on missing files
[14:55] <apachelogger> why did he send then?
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> because it didn't FTBFS
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> Apparently other packages will FTBFS in the event of missing files
[14:55] <NCommander> apachelogger, I was told kde4.mk --list-missing, there was no output
[14:56] <JontheEchidna> make -f debian/rules list-missing
[14:56] <apachelogger> pbuilder hooks
[14:56] <NCommander> Nice to know that's documented
[14:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the FTBFS was due to universe vs. main
[14:56] <NCommander> Am I the only one in the world who actually uses --fail-missing in his rules files?
[14:57] <apachelogger> hm, that is worth a thought, it would still only go into the hooks
[14:57] <apachelogger> there are wrong missings
[14:57] <NCommander> Personally, I think its absolutely insane to not have at least list-missing on as always a default
[14:59] <apachelogger> it's timewaste on the buildds
[15:00] <NCommander> And more of a time waste if you forget to do it, upload a package, and then watch it FTBFS
[15:00] <NCommander> There have been more than a few bug reports like that over the years
[15:00] <apachelogger> that is the reason I created hooks :P
[15:01] <NCommander> I don't use pbuilder hooks because it is less like an actual build environment
[15:01] <NCommander> That being said
[15:01] <NCommander> Had I known kde4.mk didn't have list-missing
[15:01] <NCommander> I would have checked it manually :-P
[15:01] <NCommander> So I accept full fault on that
[15:03]  * apachelogger doesn't care if NCommander accepts fault as long as he doesn't do it (again) :P
[15:03] <apachelogger> NCommander: anywho, perfect documentation of changes I gotta say
[15:04] <NCommander> Wait, what?
[15:04]  * NCommander is currently so caffiene depleted ATM ...
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> NCommander: of the changes you made, all were documented perfectly
[15:04] <apachelogger> that it is
[15:04] <NCommander> Oh good
[15:04] <apachelogger> now what did I want to ask
[15:04] <NCommander> what?
[15:05]  * NCommander is currently experiencing a broken English parser and requires things extremely clear
[15:05] <ScottK> Did we get the patch for kde4bindings?
[15:05] <NCommander> No, not yet
[15:05] <NCommander> I'm still testing building everything
[15:05] <ScottK> With --list-missing?
[15:06] <NCommander> It will likely take another day for everything to build on ARM
[15:06] <apachelogger> stupid bindings
[15:06] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: This would probably be a good time then for you to throw anything useful from the latest Debian upload at bar.
[15:06] <apachelogger> maybe we should debundle python from bindings
[15:06] <JontheEchidna> ugh, I haven't gotten to it yet
[15:06] <ScottK> apachelogger: Wouldn't help right now since that's where are immediate problem is.
[15:06]  * JontheEchidna projects his anger onto kde4bindings
[15:07] <apachelogger> ScottK: not right now, but in general he new build chain is going to cause problems
[15:07] <ScottK> Agreed.
[15:07] <apachelogger> bindings is causing a lot of work to update
[15:07] <NCommander> Because I need build everything on ARM
[15:07] <apachelogger> and since workspace depends on pykde we need to have bindings ready before we can do anything
[15:07] <ScottK> NCommander: Care to look at the latest Debian revision for useful additional bits while you are waiting?
[15:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think this should be at least discussed upstream first.
[15:08] <apachelogger> ScottK: agreed
[15:09] <apachelogger> does anyone know where the pthread patch in kdemultimedia come from?
[15:09] <apachelogger> ...because we were talking about changelog keeping
[15:12]  * JontheEchidna out for a bit
[15:13]  * apachelogger thinks JontheEchidna did add that patch :P
[15:20] <siekacz> hi
[15:20] <siekacz> are there any packages of kde 4 beta 1 for kubuntu?
[15:21] <chris062689> I don't think so, usually they putthemon the homepage.
[15:21] <hunger> siekacz: There are some currently building for jaunty.
[15:22] <hunger> siekacz: I'd recommend against upgrading to jaunty at this time though.
[15:22] <chris062689> You could always run in a VB
[15:22] <siekacz> i know
[15:22] <chris062689> * VM
[15:23] <siekacz> but compilling will kill my CPU
[15:23] <hunger> chris062689: VMs are for wimps:-)
[15:23] <chris062689> im not going to install Jaunty with 4.2 in a production environment! :D
[15:23] <ScottK> They are also being uploaded to a PPA for Intrepid.
[15:23] <chris062689> Are you Krazy?
[15:23] <ScottK> chris062689: Good plan.
[15:24] <chris062689> I would love just to help with the Kubuntu project..
[15:24] <chris062689> But I don't know HOW :(
[15:24] <hunger> chris062689: My box is running jaunty already. I get bored too easy on stable distributions.
[15:24] <hunger> chris062689: Run the unstable release and nag people about bugs:-)
[15:25] <chris062689> Well, i want to be more on the developing / packaging side
[15:25] <chris062689> I want to help push updates through and the such
[15:25] <apachelogger> uh
[15:25] <apachelogger> perfect :)
[15:25] <chris062689> I guess launchpad is the way to go right now though......
[15:25] <apachelogger> chris062689++
[15:25] <chris062689> huh?
[15:25] <apachelogger> chris062689: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingKubuntu
[15:25] <apachelogger> chris062689: did you ever do packaging?
[15:26] <chris062689> no
[15:26] <chris062689> But i want someoen to show me the ropes, so I can
[15:26] <apachelogger> smarter: ping
[15:26] <jpds> bisou?
[15:26] <siekacz> oh, i hope you won't get bored after a few weeks :)
[15:27] <smarter> pong apachelogger
[15:27] <apachelogger> jpds: kiss
[15:27] <apachelogger> chris062689: meet smarter
[15:27] <apachelogger> smarter: meet chris062689
[15:27] <smarter> hi
[15:27] <chris062689> Hmm?
[15:27] <chris062689> Hello..
[15:27] <smarter> what's the matter?
[15:27] <apachelogger> chris062689: smarter is one of the universe maintainers and will now become your helping hand
[15:27] <chris062689> ah, sweet.
[15:28] <smarter> hmm? :p
[15:28] <apachelogger> smarter: chris062689 wants to become a leet packager
[15:28] <chris062689> Would you mind another form of communication?  Since I'm in class right now, and may have to log off (like AIM or MSN)
[15:28] <chris062689> I guess IRC is fine though......
[15:28] <smarter> well, I don't really have time to teach you a lot of thing, but can point you to good tutorial
[15:28] <chris062689> ok
[15:28] <smarter> tutorials even
[15:29] <chris062689> basicly how it goes it
[15:29] <chris062689> I use the source to create a deb
[15:29] <chris062689> then submit it to the "Masters"
[15:29] <chris062689> and then... it goes into the repo?
[15:29] <smarter> basically, yes
[15:29] <hunger> AIM, MSN are proprietary... you might consider using a free version like jabber.
[15:29] <apachelogger> well, in a way ;-)
[15:29] <hunger> s/version/protocol/.
[15:29] <chris062689> which does it go in?  unsupported?  Community?
[15:30] <smarter> what we call universe
[15:30] <chris062689> ok
[15:30] <chris062689> I want to build a few emulators for use
[15:30] <smarter> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete is rather good on the "I use the source to create a deb" part
[15:30] <chris062689> Ubuntu repos are really not that great for emulation
[15:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: I should have kbzr and our packaging branches ready by tomorrow (hopefully)
[15:30] <chris062689> The first packages I want to build are for PCSX2, Playstation, etc
[15:31]  * apachelogger heads home
[15:31] <chris062689> I guess I can experiment
[15:31] <smarter> if you want the package to go in Ubuntu, make sure the app is open source
[15:31] <smarter> 2nd part is explained by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[15:31] <jpds> apachelogger: Oh, ja, richtig.
[15:31] <smarter> hey jpds
[15:32] <jpds> salut smarter
[15:32] <hunger> chris062689: There are always people here that will be happy to answer specific questions.
[15:32] <chris062689> okie dokie
[15:32] <chris062689> I'll probably try to hang out here more often. :D
[15:32] <chris062689> I think PCSX2 is a GTK based app though
[15:33] <chris062689> Do GTK apps still look ugly in QT / KDE?
[15:33] <hunger> chris062689: Sure. GTK is ugly:-)
[15:33] <chris062689> the problem with using GTK apps in QT is the file browser and such, it's so.. not native!
[15:33] <smarter> in theory, they're supposed to get somewhat integrated with the gtk-qt-engine
[15:33] <hunger> chris062689: You can ask to have the Qt themes applied to GTK apps though in the config center.
[15:33] <smarter> chris062689: there's a workaround for that
[15:33] <chris062689> config center, in....
[15:33] <smarter> it's called KGTK and gives a nice kde dialog to your gtk app
[15:34] <smarter> but it's a hack
[15:34] <chris062689> oh, hacks are bad :(
[15:34] <ScottK> Sure, but sometimes better than the alternative.
[15:34] <chris062689> but heck we'll worry about that later, heh
[15:34] <chris062689> What I don't understand is..
[15:34] <chris062689> PCSX2 is built as a GTK app
[15:34] <smarter> BTW, anyone knows why gtk-qt-engine won't work on a freshly installed Kubuntu 8.10?
[15:35] <chris062689> How do you... seperate it into PCSX2-core and PCSX2-Qt and stuff like that, I assume it would be up to the programmer's of PCSX.
[15:35] <ScottK> smarter: By design it doesn't pull in any Gnome stuff, just works if the packages are there.  Maybe you need to install stuff.
[15:36] <chris062689> From what I can tell,  KDE 4.2 is really stable
[15:36] <chris062689> When I tried using the Live CD, only a few apps crashed, but a lot more features :)
[15:37] <chris062689> Is KDE 4.2 going to backported to 8.10?
[15:37] <chris062689> since it's going to release in Jan.
[15:37] <smarter> ScottK: well, gtk-qt-engine is already installed, GTK2_RC_FILES env variable is set but neither firefox nor thunderbird use the qt engine, so I don't really know what "stuff" I could install
[15:37] <smarter> chris062689: yup
[15:37] <JontheEchidna> The plan is to put it in intrepid-backports once it's released
[15:37] <chris062689> ok.
[15:38] <ScottK> Dunno then.
[15:38] <chris062689> I can just IMAGNIE how long that takes to compile :P
[15:38] <siekacz> oh yes, especially on my Celeron D 341
[15:39] <chris062689> dang
[15:39] <chris062689> I have a E7200 @ 3.7
[15:39] <chris062689> I'm fine with a DualCore, I don't feel I need the power of a Quad.
[15:39] <JontheEchidna> Celeron @ 2.5 GHZ
[15:39] <JontheEchidna> 5 years oldish
[15:39] <siekacz> my PC is 3 years OLD
[15:39] <chris062689> heh
[15:39] <chris062689> I just built mine a few months  back
[15:39] <chris062689> I love it :)
[15:40] <chris062689> Plus I was suprised everything works OOTB in Linux, so that's a plus.
[15:40] <siekacz> these number in your nick are your birthdate?
[15:40] <chris062689> Ubuntu was slow on my old HP (256MB , 3Gh Celeron)
[15:40] <chris062689> yeah
[15:41] <chris062689> I should probably think of a new nick, heh
[15:41] <siekacz> Now i have 512 MB ram, but i had 2 GB and someone put 2x256 DDR to DDR2 slots, and... :)
[15:41] <jjesse> is that your birthday?
[15:41] <jjesse> 06 - 26 - 89
[15:42] <siekacz> my birthday: 05 - 01 - 92 :)
[15:44] <chris062689> yeah jjesse
[15:44] <siekacz> chris062689, are you from USA, Canada, or something like this?
[15:44] <chris062689> USA
[15:44] <chris062689> FL
[15:45] <siekacz> nice, and I'm from Poland :)
[15:45] <chris062689> lol
[15:46] <chris062689> yeah I mean heck, I have a ton of free time, and want to help Kubuntu become on-par with Ubuntu in terms of support / features / stabibility.
[15:46] <chris062689> So I figure I'll loan my time /energy whenever I can
[15:46] <chris062689> I also want to dribble in KDE 4 C++ programming
[15:48] <siekacz> as you know, you need to be a proffesional C++ programmer :)
[15:48] <chris062689> Hmm?
[15:48] <chris062689> Well, yeah.. Which I'm not, meh, but still I figure I can make little plasmoids or something
[15:49] <siekacz> to write plasmoids better is Ruby, Python :)
[15:49] <jpds> siekacz: It's just like anything else; determination and hard work.
[15:49] <chris062689> oh, it's not good to write em in C++/
[15:49] <chris062689> You'd recomend python or ruby?
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> I would recommend python or ruby
[15:49] <chris062689> i have a few python books laying around.........
[15:50] <stdin> if you know C++, python is easy to learn
[15:50] <siekacz> i started to write scripts in Python it's quite easy
[15:50] <chris062689> I don't know C++ *sighs*
[15:51] <stdin> python is what happens when you marry a shell and a programming language
[15:51] <siekacz> one of main python's advantages is that you don't need to compile any more :)
[15:51] <chris062689> I know ABOUT python, but not much about the actual programming
[15:51] <jpds> chris062689: http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html
[15:52] <chris062689> ive done programming in DM, and PHP, so I have a pretty good foundation
[15:52] <chris062689> (also HTML, CSS, etc)
[15:52] <jpds> chris062689: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/index.html
[15:52] <siekacz> better to write plsmoids is python :)
[15:52] <stdin> I learnt it from reading the guides http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
[15:53] <jpds> chris062689: Still, there's tons of information out on the web about programming.
[15:53] <siekacz> is it possible to write plasmoids in C++?
[15:54] <smarter> of course
[15:54] <chris062689> I think so.
[15:54] <stdin> seeing as plasma is written in C++, i'd hope so :p
[15:54] <smarter> KDE is C++ before everything else
[15:54] <chris062689> yeah
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> but if your C is buggy it can bring down plasma, so it's preferrable to write it in a scripting language
[15:54] <siekacz> oh, plasma is better than i thought :)
[15:54] <stdin> I don't know C, I know C++ :)
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> s/C/C++
[15:54] <chris062689> I know PHP, CSS, HTML.....
[15:54] <chris062689> Nothing to be used in KDE lol
[15:54] <jpds> And if you can get books, I suggest: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/020170353X/ for C++.
[15:55] <chris062689> I already have a book
[15:55] <chris062689> and two python books
[15:55] <siekacz> C++ is a low-level programming language so it can crash plasma :)
[15:55] <ScottK> For 'scripting languages' we tend to prefer Python.
[15:55] <chris062689> heh
[15:55] <chris062689> So C++ for low, Python for script
[15:55] <chris062689> Gotcha
[15:55]  * smarter read C++ Primer, pretty good
[15:56]  * ScottK heads out for a while to take the wife's dog to the vet.
[15:56] <jpds> ScottK: Unless you go by the name of aplg.
[15:56] <smarter> :P
[15:56] <ScottK> jpds: Yes, well there is that.
[15:56] <stdin> some thinks are easier done in python than C++, and some things are easier done in C++ than python
[15:56] <ScottK> Number one on the list of conversations I don't want to have with my wife:
[15:56] <chris062689> * Honey, why is there chocolate in the bath tub?
[15:56] <siekacz> buggy python script will just not work
[15:56] <ScottK> "Sorry your dog died while you were out of town.  I was too busy working to take him to the vet."
[15:57] <ScottK> See you later.
[15:57] <chris062689> hope it feels better
[15:57] <chris062689> or.. doesn't die..... meh
[15:57] <smarter> siekacz: you know, python script can have runtime failures too
[15:58] <siekacz> but it is harder to crash whole plasma in python
[15:58] <smarter> and some of these failures could be catched by a C/C++ compiler if the code was C/C++
[15:58] <chris062689> The ONLY reason I use GNOME at home is because it's more stable at this point, when 4.2 comes out, I'll switch full KDE4
[15:58] <smarter> siekacz: no idea, but I don't think there really is a difference
[15:58] <stdin> siekacz: not necessarily, as it's python bindings so it uses C++ to interface with plasma
[15:59] <chris062689> so it's translating python code in C++ "esentially"
[15:59] <chris062689> *essentially
[15:59] <chris062689> well, binding it to C++ calls
[15:59] <stdin> it uses a lot of pointers behind the scenes
[15:59] <stdin> and, as we all know, pointers are evil
[16:00] <siekacz> python is just easier than C++
[16:00] <chris062689> true that
[16:00] <stdin> not always
[16:00] <stdin> I'm working on something which is just too difficult in python, so I'm writing it in C++
[16:01] <chris062689> well, most things are good for Python
[16:01] <siekacz> stdin, low-level programming, right?
[16:01] <chris062689> But if you need to make a HUGE app, you need C++
[16:01] <stdin> siekacz: no, a GUI installer
[16:02] <siekacz> i thought about linux, not windows
[16:02] <stdin> who's using windows?
[16:02] <chris062689> No one
[16:02] <chris062689> Windows is evil, dang
[16:02] <siekacz> I use sometimes vista on my poor PC and at school
[16:03] <jjesse> stdin: i'm runing vista right now
[16:03] <chris062689> I usedto
[16:03] <stdin> jjesse: say 3 Hail Mary's and all will be forgiven
[16:03] <chris062689> But with the recent WINE updates, I an run all of my games, except L4d
[16:03] <chris062689> plus Vista's pritner / scanner support FAILS
[16:04] <jjesse> stdin: lol it runs great for work, no prolbems at all
[16:04] <chris062689> I just wish KDE had a more centralized place for options
[16:04] <siekacz> stdin, maybe not Hail Mary's but Hail Torvalds :)
[16:04] <stdin> took me 4 hours one time to get a network printer working in vista once
[16:04] <chris062689> Why have a Destop options on the Desktop, and have a seperate one in the CP?
[16:04] <stdin> took 5 mins for the same printer on Kubuntu
[16:04] <chris062689> hah
[16:05] <stdin> and that's without having a linux driver for it either
[16:05] <stdin> using PostScript
[16:05] <siekacz> meh, i just plug it in and it works :) only a few seconds
[16:05] <chris062689> I just plug and play ^_^
[16:05] <stdin> siekacz: "network printer", no plugs :)
[16:05] <chris062689> well, plug and print
[16:06] <siekacz> samba works great on Linux so no problems at all :)
[16:06] <stdin> I was using samba
[16:06] <stdin> my server runs Kubuntu, and it hosted the samba printer
[16:07] <chris062689> Kubuntu........ on a server? o_0
[16:07] <chris062689> Gots to go, I'll get back on the IRC when I get home, peace.
[16:07] <siekacz> i'm using it right now, but my PC is currentli the only PC in my house :)
[16:07] <stdin> it was my desktop, but now it's just a server
[16:07] <stdin> too 5 mins to setup my laptop to print to it, 4 hours for windows. all driver issues
[16:08] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: like to show the report?
[16:09] <siekacz> in poland, life of linux-fan is much harder, my country is one of MS-Lands :)
[16:09] <JontheEchidna> Tm_T: bug 272399
[16:09] <Tm_T> thanks
[16:10] <JontheEchidna> yw
[16:11] <siekacz> oh no :)
[16:12] <Caemyr> dont worry, just lurking
[16:18] <siekacz> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9121938 - nice :)
[16:18] <siekacz> Windows share on the market is under 90 %
[16:38] <chris062689> Ello
[16:39] <siekacz> wb :)
[16:39] <chris062689> heh
[16:40] <chris062689> I'm so tempted to throw KDE 4.2 on here...
[16:40] <chris062689> But it's not stable enough!!!!!!! x_x
[16:40] <siekacz> it is Beta, right?
[16:40] <chris062689> Yeah
[16:40] <chris062689> It's a Beta1
[16:40] <chris062689> When I tried it though, a few applications were still crashing
[16:40] <siekacz> wait for RC
[16:41] <chris062689> I know :P
[16:41] <chris062689> I'm going to start researching package mangement.
[16:41] <chris062689> The ONLY thing I might run into trouble with...
[16:41] <chris062689> is PCSX2 puts everthing all in one folder
[16:41] <chris062689> like..
[16:42] <chris062689> So.. it wouldn't allow for user-based configuration files...
[16:42] <chris062689> It would all be put in /usr/local/pcsx2, right?
[16:43] <siekacz> yes
[16:43] <chris062689> Would the program need to be ran as root then?
[16:43] <siekacz> no
[16:43] <siekacz> not to run
[16:43] <chris062689> because it's in it's own directory, right?
[16:43] <siekacz> but to change files
[16:44] <chris062689> Yeah...
[16:44] <chris062689> That would be a problem.
[16:44] <chris062689> Since then they wouldn't be able to write their savefiles...
[16:44] <siekacz> where savefiles are saved?
[16:44] <chris062689> Well, the default for pcsx2 is /pcsx2/memcards
[16:45] <chris062689> They pretty much ignore Linux in the respect of storing files in the user's directory
[16:45] <siekacz> so set premissions for this folder as writable for everybody :)
[16:45] <chris062689> everything PCSX2 needs is inside it's pcsx2 folder
[16:45] <chris062689> You can do that with a deb?
[16:45] <gnomefreak> did we drop yaukake from 9.04?
[16:45] <siekacz> i think yes
[16:46] <siekacz> deb is an archive file like zip or rar, so it is possible, but i don't know how
[16:47] <chris062689> Curse PCSX2 and it's non user directory configuration saving ways!
[16:47] <siekacz> wait, is it written for Linux?
[16:47] <chris062689> well, yes..
[16:47] <chris062689> As a side-thought
[16:48] <chris062689> They mainly focus on Windows-based development
[16:48] <siekacz> interesting...
[16:48] <chris062689> but it works under Linux.
[16:51] <siekacz> only way is to correct sources, what's not easy
[16:51] <chris062689> ungh
[16:51] <chris062689> So I'd have to make it compatable and have it stored in the user's directory
[16:53] <siekacz> i don't know this program, but maybe it has a configuration file where to store users files
[16:53] <chris062689> It does
[16:53] <chris062689> you can change the directory yourself
[16:53] <chris062689> But.. that's not exactly out of the box friendly
[16:54] <siekacz> so set a home folder to sotore users files, but how?
[16:54] <chris062689> I don't know how.. :D
[16:54] <chris062689> Meh
[16:55] <chris062689> I don't think I can do it today anyway
[16:58] <nixternal> jpds: hey, you want to share a cab ride on sunday? I get in about 30 minutes after you do
[16:58] <siekacz> KDE 4.2 got a Feature freeze so no more features since 4.3 :]
[16:59] <chris062689> I hear they've been closing a LOT of bugs lately
[16:59] <chris062689> Perhaps smarter could help...
[17:00] <siekacz> maybe
[17:00] <chris062689> Smarter, if a program I'm trying to compile (PCSX2) puts all of their files in /pcsx2/ folder, the program in question won't work without root privilages, right?
[17:00] <chris062689> (It stores the configuration files within /pcsx2/)
[17:00] <smarter> yes?
[17:01] <smarter> chris062689: how are you sure it doesn't create a hidden config dir in the user directory?
[17:01] <siekacz> chnging configuration file is the only way
[17:01] <smarter> but /pcsx2/ is obviously wrong, it should be /usr/share/pcxs2 or /etc/pcsx2 or something else
[17:01] <chris062689> because, it puts it within the pcsx2 directory
[17:01] <chris062689> well yeah
[17:01] <chris062689> When I compiled it, I put the bin in my home directory under /home/chris/pcsx2
[17:02] <chris062689> it put all of my files in there, it didn't create a user directory folder
[17:02] <smarter> are you sure there's no ~/.pcsx2 ?
[17:03] <chris062689> positive
[17:03] <chris062689> well, I'll triple check
[17:03] <chris062689> Give me a few minutes to compile it
[17:03] <smarter> anyway, package it and we'll see afterwards
[17:04] <chris062689> Right, after I figure out how to package things :D
[17:07] <chris062689> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631979
[17:07] <chris062689> They say there using a shell script for launching the program
[17:08] <chris062689> If that does what I think it does, it sets the approperate folders for configuration files, right?
[17:08] <chris062689> cd bin;
[17:08] <chris062689> echo \#\!'/bin/bash' > play.sh;echo 'cd ~/pcsx2/bin'>>play.sh;\
[17:08] <chris062689> echo 'LD_LIBRARY_PATH="./" ./pcsx2' >> play.sh;
[17:08] <chris062689> chmod +x play.sh
[17:13] <smarter> chris062689: no
[17:13] <smarter> it justs add the currenty dir to the library path, since by default it only checks /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib
[17:14] <chris062689> ah
[17:17] <siekacz> chris062689, how fast is your internet link?
[17:18] <chris062689> fairly
[17:18] <chris062689> I have Cable
[17:19] <chris062689> *sighs* PCSX2 keeps on crashing
[17:19] <chris062689> http://pastebin.com/m7f141a4d
[17:32] <siekacz> moonlight beta 1 is out :)
[17:35] <hunger> What is holding up kdegames, kdeedu, kdenetwork in jaunty? Just general time constraints or serious issues?
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> perhaps the build servers are clogged from all of KDE being uploaded at once :P
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger forgot to review kdenetwork, so it hasn't been uploaded yet <.<
[17:38] <hunger> JontheEchidna: Nope, nothing in the queue for jaunty anymore.
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> mm
[17:38]  * JontheEchidna would ask apachelogger
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> most likely they were overlooked
[17:39] <hunger> kdegames was build over 3h ago. Dunno whether it was a success or not though.
[17:39] <smarter> look on launchpad
[17:40] <hunger> smarter: That is where I got that info from.
[17:40] <hunger> It is not in the archives yet though:-(
[17:40] <hunger> smarter: Kdegraphics 4.1.80 for jaunty: finished 3h ago, taking 30min.
[17:40] <hunger> Not in the repo yet though:-(
[17:40] <smarter> then wait
[17:42] <hunger> kdemultimedia was finished 2h ago, but is already in the repo:-(
[17:44] <JontheEchidna> hunger: published doesn't mean built
[17:44] <hunger> JontheEchidna: ?
[17:44] <JontheEchidna> it says it was published 3 hours ago
[17:44] <JontheEchidna> oh, but it built
[17:45] <JontheEchidna> your mirror probably hasn't picked it up yet
[17:45] <hunger> My mirror is archive.ubuntu.com and usually pretty fast to get updates.
[17:46]  * JontheEchidna shrugs
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> it'll get there eventually
[17:46] <hunger> It does have stuff that was finished later according to LP:-(
[20:35] <mhb> hello, hope you are doing well
[20:37] <mhb> a question: it seems my membership in kubuntu members is about to expire, which is probbly okay I guess, but do I lose the @ubuntu.com address mapping with it as well? That would be a bit unfortunate for me as several people would lose contact with me that way
[20:38] <mhb> I'm still participating in our LoCo community, although with not as much enthusiasm as in the beginning, but still.
[20:38] <jjesse> mhb are you a ubuntu member as well?
[20:38] <jjesse> if yes then you won't lose the u buntu.com email address
[20:40] <mhb> jjesse: well, indirectly
[20:40] <mhb> via kubuntu members, which I'm about to expire from
[20:42] <mhb> what do you do in those situations? do you have a re-approval meeting?
[20:43] <mhb> I haven't seen one of those back in "my" day
[20:43] <mhb> hmm, I guess you haven't read that, have you?
[20:43] <ryanakca> mhb: not sure... I asked a few weeks ago if one would have to reapply for membership once it expired and Riddell said nay, but... not sure how you'd get it renewed / re-approved... probably have to poke someone on the KCC...
[20:44] <mhb> hrm, I hate when you lose an email address...
[20:44] <mhb> it's a bit like moving to another place, except there's no need for that on the Internet :o)
[20:44] <jjesse> is there somehting you can do in luanchpad to renew it?
[20:46] <mhb> nope, just leave
[20:52] <ryanakca> mhb: Membership lasts for two years, and is renewable. If you don't renew your status as a member you will join the "inactive members" list. Membership can be reactivated at any time after it has lapsed, on request and with the confirmation of the Community Council.
[20:52] <ryanakca> It only says what to do if you don't renew it before it lapses...
[20:53] <ryanakca> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[20:54] <mhb> hmm
[20:54] <mhb> thanks, but I'm still clueless :o)
[20:54]  * ryanakca shrugs
[20:55] <ryanakca> mhb: if you find out, lemme know, mine expires in a month...
[20:55] <mhb> I will
[20:55] <ryanakca> thanks :)
[21:14] <mhb> if anyone knows how to renew that membership, let me know. Thanks!
[21:14] <Arby> anybod got any idea how to debug an application that sometimes fails to save and sometimes works fine.
[21:14] <Arby> in relation to bug 302360
[21:17] <siekacz> anyone uses G1?
[21:53] <ScottK-laptop> mhb: Welcome back.
[21:54] <ScottK-laptop> mhb: If it's like other teams there's a link in the warning message and you go there and there's a thing to click on to renew.
[23:58]  * seele waves