| === salgado-afk is now known as salgado | ||
| === cprov is now known as cprov-away | ||
| === mrevell_ is now known as mrevell-lunch | ||
| === bac_lunch is now known as bac | ||
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | ||
| barry | #startmeeting | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| MootBot | Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry. | 15:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 15:00 |
| barry | hello everybody and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting. who's here today? | 15:00 |
| bigjools | me | 15:00 |
| intellectronica | mö | 15:00 |
| bac | me | 15:01 |
| salgado | me | 15:01 |
| mars | me | 15:02 |
| barry | wow, light attendance today <wink> | 15:02 |
| flacoste | me | 15:02 |
| barry | allenap, BjornT, EdwinGrubbs, gmb, rockstar ping | 15:03 |
| allenap | me | 15:03 |
| EdwinGrubbs | me | 15:03 |
| gmb | me | 15:04 |
| barry | danilos: ping | 15:04 |
| bac | abel? | 15:04 |
| barry | [TOPIC] agenda | 15:04 |
| MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 15:04 |
| adeuring | me | 15:05 |
| barry | * Roll call | 15:05 |
| barry | * Graduations | 15:05 |
| barry | * Is OCR still relevant in a world with merge proposals? (barry) | 15:05 |
| barry | * Sabbaticals? (barry) | 15:05 |
| barry | * Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry) | 15:05 |
| barry | * https://pastebin.canonical.com/11767/ | 15:05 |
| barry | * If there's time, the old boring script | 15:05 |
| barry | * Next meeting | 15:05 |
| barry | * Action items | 15:05 |
| barry | * Mentoring update | 15:05 |
| barry | * Queue status | 15:05 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Graduations | 15:05 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Graduations | 15:05 |
| barry | so bac recommends graduation for rockstar, but since he blew us off today... :) | 15:05 |
| sinzui | me | 15:05 |
| barry | naw. so rockstar graduates. congratulations rockstar-in-abstentia | 15:06 |
| intellectronica | go rockstar! | 15:06 |
| bac | whoo! | 15:06 |
| flacoste | yeah | 15:07 |
| flacoste | it should be a rule | 15:07 |
| bac | rockstar's reviews have been very attentive and he asks lots of good questions. he's ready to be graduated. | 15:07 |
| flacoste | if you miss the reviewer meeting of your graduation | 15:07 |
| flacoste | you get to be on probation for one more month :-) | 15:07 |
| bac | he needs to work on his attendance, though! | 15:07 |
| flacoste | that might seems unfair for the mentor | 15:07 |
| bac | flacoste: i'm ok with another month of probation if you'll pick up the mentoring | 15:08 |
| flacoste | but mentoring is also about instigating reliability in the mentee :-p | 15:08 |
| barry | flacoste: right! or we can just publicly mock him relentlessly at his graduation announcement | 15:08 |
| flacoste | barry: that's probably funnier | 15:08 |
| barry | let the mocking begin | 15:08 |
| danilos | me | 15:08 |
| danilos | late but still me | 15:09 |
| intellectronica | maybe he should attend meetings even on days when we don't, for a month | 15:09 |
| * barry thinks he should /run/ the meetings (including asiapac) for a month | 15:09 | |
| barry | moving on, but don't let that stop you if you come up with a good zinger... | 15:10 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Is OCR still relevant in a world with merge proposals? (barry) | 15:10 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Is OCR still relevant in a world with merge proposals? (barry) | 15:10 |
| barry | so, i've had a few people mention that ocr seems "weird" now that we have merge-proposals. so i'll open the floor to discussion: do we want to keep ocr now and if so, in its current form or change it? | 15:11 |
| bigjools | weird, how? | 15:11 |
| barry | in that it's less about getting a review RIGHT NOW than it is spending time popping things off the top of the queue | 15:11 |
| intellectronica | i don't see how it's weird. you still want to encourage high velocity, and you still need some mechanism for allocation of reviews | 15:11 |
| sinzui | I say yes, they are relevant. I know who will be taking the review. I have someone I can discuss the matter with *before* the merge proposal it made | 15:11 |
| gmb | I agree with... well, all of the above. | 15:12 |
| bigjools | OCR is still very relevant for velocity | 15:12 |
| gmb | barry: Otherwise MP just becomes the new PR. | 15:12 |
| mars | gmb, agreed | 15:12 |
| allenap | It encourages people to *seek* a review rather than letting branches sit around. | 15:12 |
| bigjools | without it we'd go back to the days of 2+ days reviews, chasing reviewers and getting frustrated | 15:12 |
| bigjools | and who would allocate? | 15:13 |
| bac | i do see people creating MPs but then not showing up to ask for OC reviews. so i tend to pop things off the MP stack and then hope they are around for questions. | 15:13 |
| * mars didn't know there was a MP stack | 15:13 | |
| intellectronica | bac: that shouldn't happen. it's a coder's responsibility to make sure that they're branch gets reviewed | 15:13 |
| * bac wishes there were a real stack instead of an unordered list | 15:13 | |
| gmb | I sometimes create an MP so that I can make sure I ask for a review *tomorrow*, but I don't expect someone to JFDI if I don't ask. | 15:13 |
| bac | just like when using PR if no one asks for an OCR we would pull things off the general queue. same, same. | 15:14 |
| barry | btw, i'm not saying /i/ think we should get rid of ocr. i'm just bringing up some things i've heard so we have a chance to discuss them | 15:15 |
| barry | okay, so does anybody disagree with keeping ocr the way we have it now? | 15:15 |
| barry | 5 | 15:16 |
| intellectronica | bac: yes, but that should be the exeception. the review process is so much more powerful when you can chat about it in real time | 15:16 |
| barry | 4 | 15:16 |
| barry | 3 | 15:16 |
| barry | 2 | 15:16 |
| bac | intellectronica: agreed. just sharing what often happens on tuesdays | 15:16 |
| barry | 1 | 15:16 |
| barry | cool, thanks | 15:16 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Sabbaticals? (barry) | 15:16 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Sabbaticals? (barry) | 15:16 |
| mars | +1 for sabbaticals | 15:17 |
| barry | on a related note, there's been some requests for sabbaticals and/or half day review slots. we have pretty good coverage for euro and america these days, so perhaps we could institute some kind of rotation | 15:17 |
| mars | everyone needs a break from routine once in a while | 15:17 |
| barry | thoughts? | 15:17 |
| bac | i think i originally introduced the idea then promptly forgot about it. | 15:17 |
| intellectronica | i was thinking about it a bit since i made the request | 15:18 |
| bac | i think it's a good idea so reviewers don't get burned out. | 15:18 |
| gmb | +1 | 15:18 |
| sinzui | I recall the backlogs we have when foundations or registry team are sprinting. | 15:18 |
| intellectronica | i think that regulating this too much will not work well, because reviewers know best when they really need a break | 15:18 |
| intellectronica | perhaps instead, each reviewer should have an allowance | 15:18 |
| sinzui | Sabbaticals are fine so long as someone is sill available to do the reviews. | 15:18 |
| intellectronica | much like leave days from work | 15:18 |
| mars | sinzui, right | 15:18 |
| gmb | sinzui: But we have some overlap now. Those backlogs occurred because foundations/registry were splinting and we didn't do anything to deal with the hole. | 15:18 |
| bigjools | sinzui: +1 sensible | 15:19 |
| gmb | splinting? | 15:19 |
| gmb | Whatevr. | 15:19 |
| intellectronica | sinzui: i don't think that's a problem these days. we have many reviewers | 15:19 |
| intellectronica | gmb: you're turning japanese? | 15:19 |
| barry | intellectronica: except in exceptional circumstances perhaps, but we can deal with those | 15:19 |
| gmb | intellectronica: Appalentry so. | 15:19 |
| * gmb wonders who we should offend at next week's meeting | 15:20 | |
| bac | i suspect if we have the concept of sabbaticals they will rarely be used. but it's good to know there is a socially-approved mechanism for declaring you need a break. | 15:20 |
| barry | so, not counting mentats, we have 2 more reviewers than we have ocr slots, so there is room for breaks | 15:20 |
| sinzui | intellectronica: correct, yet if all the sabbatical takers abandon Wednesday, there is a problem. I am suggesting the we need to move who is working the slots now that we can afford to give reviewers a break from reviewing | 15:20 |
| intellectronica | what if every reviewer had, say, 10 leave shifts a year, which they are responsible to coordinate, make sure someone is there to replace them, etc? | 15:20 |
| gmb | sinzui: We need floating reviewers. | 15:21 |
| intellectronica | sinzui: yes, just like normal leave. you don't allow everyone to take time off at the same time. you coordinate | 15:21 |
| barry | gmb: i don't mind floating (i think :) | 15:21 |
| gmb | barry: Likewise, once al-maisan has graduated. | 15:21 |
| bac | sounds too formal for me. i'd prefer people just announce they need a month off, whatever, and barry busts anyone that seems to be abusive. | 15:22 |
| barry | how long should a sabbatical be? 1 week, 1 cycle, up to the reviewer? | 15:22 |
| barry | gmb: cool | 15:22 |
| bigjools | we're all consenting adults - please, leave it to common sense | 15:22 |
| intellectronica | i think that 2-8 weeks | 15:22 |
| bigjools | don;t wrap it up in more red tape | 15:22 |
| bac | bigjools: +1 | 15:22 |
| barry | bac: i am all for more opportunities to wield my power | 15:22 |
| gmb | +1 | 15:22 |
| intellectronica | +1. my suggestion was just because i didn't like the idea of organised rotation | 15:23 |
| === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch | ||
| bac | salgado takes a sabbatical from this discussion | 15:24 |
| barry | okay, sounds good. so if you need a break, please come see me and i'll coordinate to make sure we have proper coverage. please be mindful that your teammates may also need breaks now and then | 15:24 |
| barry | okay, thanks everyone. good discussion | 15:24 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry) | 15:24 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry) | 15:24 |
| barry | i've been using this: https://pastebin.canonical.com/11767/ | 15:25 |
| intellectronica | everything that's standard, should be part of the form | 15:25 |
| barry | and experimenting with a == diff == section at the end so the whole thing is in one cover letter | 15:25 |
| barry | 1) do we want a standard form; 2) is this one a good start; 3) if so, what's missing? | 15:26 |
| adeuring | lint output? | 15:26 |
| bac | the bug *should* be redundant as the MP should be linked | 15:26 |
| flacoste | well | 15:26 |
| flacoste | bug report are often cryptic | 15:26 |
| flacoste | so having a summary of the issue at the top of the cover letter is usually good | 15:26 |
| barry | adeuring: lint output, good addition | 15:27 |
| flacoste | plus it's easier on the Thailand/Australia/NZ folks | 15:27 |
| flacoste | save a trip to Launchpad | 15:27 |
| gmb | flacoste: They chose to live on the wrong side of the internet. | 15:27 |
| gmb | Bugger 'em. | 15:27 |
| * gmb jokes, because thumper is bigger than he is | 15:28 | |
| sinzui | I often have a == rules == section that defines the scope of the fix. | 15:28 |
| barry | flacoste: i agree. i've found it's good to have a summary there | 15:28 |
| intellectronica | sinzui: what does "the scope of the fix" mean? | 15:28 |
| barry | sinzui: i think that's what my "proposed fix" section is for iiuc | 15:29 |
| bac | ok, ok, my point is we agreed earlier that we should use --fixes or another mechanism to link the bug. i've been requesting it when not done. | 15:29 |
| barry | bac: yes, definitely --fixes is a good thing, but under the = Bug XXXXX = section, i usually put a summary of what the bug is about | 15:30 |
| intellectronica | right, and the scope of the fix should usually be the bug | 15:30 |
| bac | barry: yes, good idea. | 15:30 |
| barry | does anybody disagree that we should have a standard form? | 15:30 |
| sinzui | intellectronica: I write down what the crucial changes that need to happen. There are lots of other things that can complicate the fix, or introduce feature creep. | 15:31 |
| intellectronica | i agree, but i think that we should aim at making it part of launchpad itself, not some kind of template | 15:31 |
| intellectronica | sinzui: makes sense. that's something that is always good to have | 15:31 |
| barry | intellectronica: agreed, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good :) | 15:32 |
| bigjools | intellectronica: +1 | 15:32 |
| bigjools | greasemonkey script? :) | 15:32 |
| intellectronica | huh? | 15:32 |
| sinzui | intellectronica: I started doing it to make myself focus on the fix. I kept doing it because I could point to that when the branch is a CP candidate. | 15:32 |
| barry | bigjools: api/bzr plugin? :) | 15:32 |
| barry | sinzui: also, i'm trying hard to start filliing out the template as soon as i start the branch, and not to wait until the mp is posted | 15:33 |
| gmb | barry: We could start by repurposing bzr write-cover-letter... | 15:33 |
| bigjools | barry: or that! | 15:33 |
| allenap | If this template is good it should go in the tree I think. | 15:33 |
| sinzui | barry: I have a macro that prompts me for it | 15:34 |
| barry | gmb: i'm thinking something like that | 15:34 |
| barry | sinzui: gedit macro? | 15:34 |
| sinzui | yes | 15:34 |
| barry | cool | 15:34 |
| barry | if there are no objections, i'll take this to the mailing list | 15:35 |
| barry | and if anybody wants to work on a plugin to use it, i'll help out | 15:36 |
| * gmb wishes he had time | 15:36 | |
| bigjools | api support through lpreview would be awesome | 15:36 |
| barry | gmb: forced vacation is coming up :) | 15:36 |
| flacoste | gmb: time is left-brain illusion, you have it :-) | 15:36 |
| gmb | barry: Really? I thought it was UDS... | 15:37 |
| * bigjools concentrates hard like Hiro | 15:37 | |
| barry | anyway, that's everything on my list. does anybody have an item not on the agenda? | 15:37 |
| bigjools | barry: I did add something | 15:38 |
| bigjools | but it's not on your agenda here for some reason | 15:38 |
| * barry refreshes | 15:38 | |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Gotchas with new celebrities (Julian) | 15:38 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Gotchas with new celebrities (Julian) | 15:38 |
| barry | bigjools: the floor is yours | 15:38 |
| bigjools | We had a problem in the week with an oops being generated because Celso added a new celebrity and some bugs code on edge was trying to iterate over them | 15:39 |
| bigjools | so it's just a heads up to say, if you add celebrities, remember to find a LOSA to patch the DB as well | 15:39 |
| bigjools | EOF | 15:39 |
| intellectronica | surely we can find a better way?... | 15:40 |
| intellectronica | i won't remember this | 15:40 |
| bigjools | don't iterate over celebs? :) | 15:40 |
| bigjools | why does it need to do that anyway? | 15:40 |
| intellectronica | either that, or test on startup? | 15:41 |
| gmb | bigjools: which file? | 15:41 |
| bigjools | gmb: I can't remember, let me take a look | 15:41 |
| gmb | ok | 15:41 |
| allenap | There's some code that checks if a bug tracker is a celebrity, in which case deletion is forbidden. | 15:41 |
| gmb | Hum. | 15:41 |
| allenap | It does it by iterating through all the celebs. | 15:41 |
| * rockstar mes | 15:42 | |
| gmb | allenap: Let's discuss this outside the meeting | 15:42 |
| allenap | Yep. | 15:42 |
| sinzui | doesn't adding a celebrity require a DB patch? I had to do that when working with the janitor | 15:42 |
| gmb | sinzui: Not necessarily. | 15:43 |
| gmb | And usually, no. | 15:43 |
| flacoste | gmb: well kind oif | 15:43 |
| bigjools | sinzui: just a new row | 15:43 |
| flacoste | actually it does | 15:43 |
| gmb | sampledata change | 15:43 |
| flacoste | yeah, right | 15:43 |
| flacoste | but you should do that using a db patch | 15:43 |
| flacoste | so that it's applied automatically on roll-out | 15:43 |
| gmb | flacoste: Unless you're adding something as a celeb that already exists in prod. | 15:43 |
| flacoste | right | 15:43 |
| bigjools | gmb: OOPS-1063EC95 | 15:44 |
| gmb | flacoste: Is that in our guidelines for adding a celebrity? | 15:44 |
| gmb | bigjools: Ta | 15:44 |
| flacoste | gmb: using a db patch? | 15:44 |
| barry | that makes sense then: if the celeb exists on prod, add sample data. if not, db patch is necessary to add it in both places | 15:44 |
| gmb | flacoste: Yes | 15:44 |
| barry | does that make sense? | 15:44 |
| flacoste | i'm not even sure we have formalized guidlines on this | 15:44 |
| flacoste | but yes, barry's suggestion is sane | 15:45 |
| flacoste | and by using a db patch, your code won't run on edge | 15:45 |
| flacoste | until the DB has the celebrity | 15:45 |
| bigjools | hmmm that's kinda restrictive | 15:45 |
| flacoste | bigjools: well, that's the policy, there might be reason to do otherwise | 15:46 |
| barry | flacoste: i agree | 15:46 |
| flacoste | but in that case, you should know what you are doing | 15:46 |
| bigjools | okay | 15:46 |
| flacoste | and not trigger an OOPS on edge :-) | 15:46 |
| bigjools | I'm entirely innocent (this time) | 15:46 |
| bigjools | :) | 15:46 |
| flacoste | bigjools and innocence together, i can't believe it | 15:47 |
| barry | [ACTION] someone capture celeb addition policy in dev wiki, when the reviewer-tips have been moved from the old wiki | 15:47 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: someone capture celeb addition policy in dev wiki, when the reviewer-tips have been moved from the old wiki | 15:47 |
| flacoste | barry, that's an action that will never happen! | 15:47 |
| * bigjools considers kicking sand at flacoste at the TL sprint | 15:47 | |
| barry | flacoste: indeed :) | 15:47 |
| barry | anyway, that's all the time we have today | 15:48 |
| barry | #endmeeting | 15:48 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 09:48. | 15:48 |
| barry | thanks everyone! | 15:48 |
| intellectronica | thanks barry | 15:48 |
| bigjools | thanks barry | 15:48 |
| barry | see y'all back a the ranch | 15:48 |
| flacoste | bigjools: sand will be nice change from snow! | 15:48 |
| bigjools | flacoste: amen brother :) | 15:50 |
| bigjools | it's warm here today, we're 4C | 15:51 |
| flacoste | 0C here! | 15:57 |
| al-maisan | Hello there and sorry for being late | 15:58 |
| flacoste | with a dull grey sky | 15:58 |
| bigjools | ah well it was bright blue here but it's nearly dark now :) | 15:58 |
| flacoste | bright blue is nice! | 15:59 |
| flacoste | dull grey kills my productivity | 15:59 |
| bigjools | I hear ya | 16:00 |
| * gmb is waiting for the snow to come | 16:01 | |
| === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado | ||
| === bac is now known as bac_lunch | ||
| === bac_lunch is now known as bac | ||
| === salgado is now known as salgado-afk | ||
| === bac is now known as bac_afk | ||
| === bac_afk is now known as bac | ||
| === spmcinern is now known as spm | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!