[00:10]  * PrivateVoid nods
[00:21]  * pleia2 waves to PrivateVoid 
[00:21]  * PrivateVoid waves back
[00:22] <PrivateVoid> almost done with the BT team meeting
[00:58]  * PrivateVoid waves again to pleia2 
[00:58]  * Rocket2DMn peeks
[01:00] <pleia2> okies, meeting time :)
[01:00] <pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/MeetingAgenda2008Dec3
[01:00] <pleia2> so, who all is here?
[01:00] <pleia2> introduce yourselfs! :)
[01:01] <pleia2> yourselves too
[01:01]  * PrivateVoid PrivateVoid nods
[01:01] <PrivateVoid> hello everyone!
[01:01] <Rocket2DMn> I'm just here to watch (I think)
[01:01] <spiderbatdad> err
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> Hello classsroom :)
[01:02] <pleia2> hey bodhi_zazen
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> The Beginners team in interested in assisting with #ubuntu-classroom :)
[01:02] <pleia2> we can start out with that
[01:03] <pleia2> so currently, ubuntu-classroom is mostly a basic project to help teams host courses in irc - we hold sessions here so there is a centralized location, help put folks in touch with resources for promotion
[01:03] <bodhi_zazen> Sounds awesome
[01:04] <pleia2> we also intended to do our own general sessions, which is pretty much the same mandate as the beginners education team
[01:04] <bodhi_zazen> And we can help guide people to IRC (from forums mostly)
[01:04] <pleia2> (early on when classroom was founded we did our own)
[01:04] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: nice :)
[01:04] <pleia2> so lately we don't have the humanpower to run our own courses, so mostly it's just been a coordination and promotion thing
[01:05] <bodhi_zazen> We can help coordinate on the forums and we have some members who would like to instruct as well
[01:05] <pleia2> excellent
[01:05] <pleia2> Classroom doesn't currently have a forums contingent, and I'm not much of a forums person so I've never pushed it, but it's a great resource
[01:06] <bodhi_zazen> I am afraid I am stealing PrivateVoid's thunder here, PrivateVoid has done some outstanding footwork
[01:06] <PrivateVoid> The beginners team has an education focus group - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education
[01:06] <PrivateVoid> We would like to run classes that are wiki/forum based with IRC sessions, and IRC based classes, and IRC based Q&A sessions.
[01:06] <PrivateVoid> The type of 'class' I view as a candidate for the mixed sessions is a programming class. The lesson material and assignments are on the wiki or forum and the 'instructor' is available one night a week in IRC.
[01:07] <PrivateVoid> We are building a resources component of the wiki which links people to resources, but those resources do not answer all the questions... that is what the Q&A sessions would be for
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> Well, the BT is, IMO, not only a resource for beginners on the forums, but I see it as a way of encouraging people to become more involved with the Ubuntu community
[01:07] <PrivateVoid> I currently have a thread on the forums asking people what they would like to see 'taught'
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> so our members may go to Launchpad, MOTU, wiki, and classroot
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> *classroom
[01:07] <Rocket2DMn> +1 bodhi_zazen
[01:07] <PrivateVoid> and some threads asking for interested instructors
[01:08] <bodhi_zazen> PrivateVoid, link ?
[01:08] <PrivateVoid> I think the easiest way to build up, as bodhi_zazen suggested in the BT meeting, is to start with the Q&A sessions
[01:08] <pleia2> sounds good
[01:09] <PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, they were not stickied... give me a second
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> np PrivateVoid, don't worry about it
[01:09] <PrivateVoid> call for topics -- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=984986
[01:09] <pleia2> PrivateVoid: so I'm thinking you get these up and running, and when you want to host one drop a note to ubuntu-classroom list to get put on the wiki schedule (or just add it yourself)
[01:09] <PrivateVoid> call for instructors - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=997940
[01:09] <DarkKnight> hey i m a newbie...and wanted to be on the MOTU team....i read the wiki page...but there are certain things that i didnt understand
[01:09] <PrivateVoid> pleia2, noted
[01:10] <DarkKnight> I did file a bug
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> DarkKnight, if you wish, come to #ubuntuforums-beginners
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> we have members who will guide you if needed
[01:10] <DarkKnight> bodhi_zazen; newbie in the sense i m newbie to the development process
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> As I said, one of our goals is to make the greater Ubuntu community more "accessible"
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> I'm sure you could teach us all a few tricks DarkKnight :)
[01:11] <DarkKnight> bodhi_zazen; wat tricks
[01:12] <pleia2> so once we have a class scheduled, we'll help promote if you need us
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> that would be awesome pleia2
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> I have suggested we start small and build ;)
[01:12]  * pleia2 nods
[01:12] <PrivateVoid> yes bodhi_zazen the Q&A is an excellent starting point
[01:13] <bodhi_zazen> Thank you for your time, we will be in touch
[01:13] <DarkKnight> i didnt get a word of wat u ppl had been saying
[01:13] <pleia2> DarkKnight: we're having a meeting :)
[01:13] <pleia2> PrivateVoid: are there any other ways you can think we can help you guys out?
[01:14] <DarkKnight> pleia2; okkk.....
[01:14] <PrivateVoid> pleia2, we need instructors... and people willing to write some courses
[01:14] <DarkKnight> pleia2; ya i need help
[01:14] <PrivateVoid> FAQs and HowTos are ok, but not really 'courses'
[01:14]  * pleia2 nods
[01:14] <PrivateVoid> so the format has to be slightly different
[01:15] <PrivateVoid> FAQs and How Tos can be preparation material for the Q&A sessions, but the courses would be more 'lesson' based
[01:15] <pleia2> so the way I see things, is Classroom itself really woud like to get our own courses going again, but if we could delegate that to your team it might be a worthwhile thing
[01:15] <PrivateVoid> that would be great... but my 'team' is rather small right now...
[01:15] <PrivateVoid> so it might be best to work in harmony with one another
[01:15] <pleia2> unfortunately we've already been burnt by working with another team for such things, there was a New Users team a long time ago that died :)
[01:16]  * PrivateVoid nods
[01:16] <PrivateVoid> I understand
[01:16] <DarkKnight> pleia2; so wat r being thought in the classroom...and how r ppl across the world going 2 learn
[01:16] <PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, will whipe me if I fade away and die
[01:16] <PrivateVoid> so I have no ability to just leave you all hanging
[01:17] <pleia2> DarkKnight: can you hold off new questions until we finish up this discussion?
[01:17] <PrivateVoid> DarkKnight, we will be making classes... about Bash Scripting, programming Python, etc... and then we will offer the courses in the IRC channel and via wiki/forum posts
[01:17] <bodhi_zazen> pleia2, although it is early, I think the BT is getting established and if anything I see growth
[01:17] <pleia2> DarkKnight: the classroom site is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[01:17] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: *nod*
[01:18] <bodhi_zazen> If you have concerns or feedback we would be all ears
[01:18] <DarkKnight> pleia2; thanq.....ohh plzz don't mind for having interrupted
[01:18] <DarkKnight> ur discussion
[01:19] <bodhi_zazen> I think we would add to rather then take over if you will
[01:19] <pleia2> ok, so maybe you guys start off with the q&a sessions, we promote, and take it from there?
[01:19]  * pleia2 nods
[01:19] <bodhi_zazen> We would start small for sure, and build
[01:19]  * PrivateVoid nods
[01:19] <pleia2> honestly Classroom has kinda fizzled out these past couple years, it's been tough to get regoing and perhaps what we ultimately *need* is another team helping out
[01:20] <PrivateVoid> that sounds good pleia2 do you have any instructors... or a good idea on how to recruit them?
[01:20] <PrivateVoid> that, I think, will be the largest challenge
[01:20] <pleia2> thus far we've primarily used planet, posts to UWN, and our own connections within the community (ie - nag people who know stuff to do classes)
[01:20] <PrivateVoid> the forums, the wiki and launchpad all give people, those who seek it, 'exposure' and 'recognition'
[01:21] <PrivateVoid> perhaps if there was a way to give people that 'recognition' for being an instructor we would get some more people interested
[01:21]  * pleia2 notes that nagging has been primary tool
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> PrivateVoid, do we not have a few interested instructors in the BT ?
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> It would be a start
[01:22] <PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, being honest we have people that have expressed an interest... but only one that I am aware of that ran a class
[01:22] <PrivateVoid> the Q&A sessions would make it easier, I think, to get people to commit to the time
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> Well, to be honest, I think they will respond to "leadership" and "structure"
[01:23] <bodhi_zazen> It is nebulous, being an instructor
[01:23] <spiderbatdad> most do
[01:23] <bodhi_zazen> but if you tell them what is needed, give them structure, they will follow
[01:23] <bodhi_zazen> you are a natural leader
[01:23] <PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, I agree... that is what I am trying to build...
[01:23] <spiderbatdad> +1
[01:24] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: +1
[01:24] <PrivateVoid> I just enable people to shine
[01:24] <PrivateVoid> not really any leadership in that...
[01:24] <bodhi_zazen> yes there is, and that is my line :)
[01:24] <pleia2> so for classroom stuff, we developed this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Guidelines
[01:24]  * PrivateVoid does not take compliments well... they embarrass him... as much as he appreciates them
[01:25]  * PrivateVoid reads wiki
[01:25] <bodhi_zazen> bookmarked pleia2
[01:25] <PrivateVoid> good structure pleia2
[01:25] <pleia2> it's a bit rough around the edges
[01:26] <pleia2> but basic ideas are there
[01:26] <PrivateVoid> it is good... we can buff the edges
[01:26] <pleia2> :)
[01:26] <PrivateVoid> I think writing the wiki ahead of time and adding to it after the class would be a good idea
[01:27] <PrivateVoid> perhaps a wiki for the main 'subject' and logs of previous classes
[01:27] <pleia2> PrivateVoid: like for a series on a similar subject?
[01:27] <PrivateVoid> yes
[01:27]  * pleia2 nods
[01:28] <PrivateVoid> I would think certain classes will see many students pass through the 'doors'
[01:29] <bodhi_zazen> I am going to need to get to my family soon
[01:29] <bodhi_zazen> pleia2, you can always find us at #ubuntuforums-beginners :)
[01:30]  * pleia2 recalls :)
[01:30] <bodhi_zazen> It is a relaxed channel, take care not to click on the links :)
[01:30] <pleia2> I stopped lurking because people were always welcoming me like I was new
[01:30] <pleia2> hehe
[01:30] <PrivateVoid> I hang here... and on many other channels
[01:30] <pleia2> I knew where to find you guys if I needed ;)
[01:30] <bodhi_zazen> We like fresh victims
[01:31] <bodhi_zazen> doh, I mean members
[01:31]  * PrivateVoid evil grin
[01:31] <Rocket2DMn> mmmmm blooooood
[01:31] <pleia2> haha
[01:31] <pleia2> alas, I dislike forums :)
[01:32] <pleia2> ok, so since bodhi_zazen has to scoot soon - I'll work up some gathering instructors ideas and post them to the wiki, you guys start working on a couple pepole to start running classes and then nudge me or the classroom list when you're ready to get help for promotion and stuff?
[01:33] <bodhi_zazen> Well, that is one way we can work together, we are strong on forums, weaker elsewhere
[01:33] <PrivateVoid> sounds good!!
[01:33] <bodhi_zazen> +1 pleia2
[01:34] <pleia2> PrivateVoid: I'd be interested in other thoughst of yours for expanding classes beyond forums/wiki (you had mentioned moodle at some point), but I think that's for a later time
[01:34] <pleia2> don't want to tackle too much at once
[01:34] <PrivateVoid> yes.... if we get things rolling...
[01:34] <PrivateVoid> a app like moodle could really help
[01:35] <PrivateVoid> I wrote an entire course for School Administrators regarding security in Moodle...
[01:35] <PrivateVoid> so I have a bit of experience with it... though not an expert
[01:36]  * pleia2 knows very little about moodle
[01:37]  * PrivateVoid nods and waves
[01:37] <dinda> i know about Moodle
[01:37] <PrivateVoid> thanks for the time on your docket classroom team
[01:37] <PrivateVoid> I appreciate the opportunity
[01:37] <PrivateVoid> and hope that I can assist in moving the education of Ubuntu users forward
[01:39] <pleia2> your enthusiasm is much needed :)
[01:40] <PrivateVoid> I hope it rubs off...
[01:41] <PrivateVoid> to be honest... I gave up computer gaming... and Ubuntu is what I am focused on instead
[01:42] <pleia2> I did the same a while back
[01:42] <PrivateVoid> Cool...
[01:42] <PrivateVoid> I was very, very in to Guild Wars...
[01:42] <PrivateVoid> and World of Warcrack before that
[01:43] <dinda> can I ask a general question about this channel?
[01:43] <pleia2> dinda: sure
[01:43] <dinda> why do so many folks hang out here?  are they waiting for something to happen?  or just like to lurk?
[01:44] <pleia2> Ubuntu Open Week is held here
[01:44] <pleia2> I think a lot of people join during that, and lurk :)
[01:44] <dinda> that's one every 6 months
[01:44] <pleia2> developers week is also hosted here, which is 6-12 months
[01:44] <pleia2> I think most folks just lurk and look in when something is going on if it's interesting
[01:44] <dinda> are there any other regularly scheduled events here?
[01:45] <pleia2> motu school had regular sessions for a while
[01:45] <dinda> yeah James_w was very helpful in trying to get those going
[01:45]  * pleia2 nods
[01:45] <pleia2> they were great :)
[01:45] <pleia2> alas, we don't have much else going on
[01:45]  * Rocket2DMn returns to his tiny corners of the IRC net
[01:45] <pleia2> so I scour the ubuntu community for other teams doing classes, and drag them here
[01:46]  * pleia2 points at PrivateVoid 
[01:46] <dinda> :)
[01:46] <pleia2> like beginners team! :)
[01:46] <PrivateVoid> I will try to build it... I will...
[01:46] <dinda> we've had some success with our weekly session in the training team
[01:47] <dinda> but need to add some evening US time sessions
[01:47] <PrivateVoid> dinda, another team for teaching... cool... we really need to pool our resources
[01:47] <PrivateVoid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education
[01:47] <PrivateVoid> I am working on getting some stuff going with pleia2
[01:48] <dinda> getting good session leaders is key
[01:48] <PrivateVoid> in using the wiki/forums and IRC to hold classes and Q&A sessions
[01:48] <PrivateVoid> yes, it is...
[01:48] <dinda> one guy found it really hard to lead an irc session with all the crosstalk in the channel
[01:49] <PrivateVoid> +m
[01:49] <PrivateVoid> set the channel to +m
[01:49] <PrivateVoid> that should cut that down
[01:49] <pleia2> yeah, we tend to leave +m up to the instructor
[01:49] <dinda> some topics lend themselves to irc better than others I suppose
[01:50] <pleia2> the ubuntu women open week presentation I did ended up having to be moderated
[01:50] <PrivateVoid> I agree dinda I see IRC being used in some courses as a 'help' session that augments class lessons that are forum/wiki based
[01:50] <PrivateVoid> that have material that is to be learned with assignments
[01:51] <dinda> good luck, let me know if i can help
[01:52] <PrivateVoid> dinda, you can help...
[01:52] <PrivateVoid> how do I contact you?
[01:52] <dinda> dinda@ubuntu.com  :)
[01:52] <dinda> like pleia2 I'm not much a forums person either
[01:52] <PrivateVoid> k
[01:53] <PrivateVoid> not an issue... I am less a forum person than most of the BT guys
[01:53] <PrivateVoid> I mostly hang on IRC
[01:53] <PrivateVoid> and use LP to answer questions
[02:03] <dinda> ok, gotta go fight with BZR some more
[02:03] <dinda> night all!
[18:22] <DasEI> what happened here today ?