/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/12/04/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team | 04 Dec 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 01:00: Forum Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council
rochdiHi12:42
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Dec 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 01:00: Forum Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council
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Koonwho's here for the Java meeting ?14:00
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 01:00: Forum Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council
* robilad waves14:00
persiao/14:00
* Koon pings slytherin14:01
Koono/14:02
Koon#startmeeting14:02
MootBotMeeting started at 08:02. The chair is Koon.14:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:02
KoonNothing special except Roadmap review on the Agenda14:03
Koon[TOPIC] Java on the server stack14:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Java on the server stack14:03
Koonrobilad: any progress to report ?14:03
robiladKoon: I am just unclawing myself from a heap of mail14:04
robiladso no, not really.14:04
robiladglassfish v3 just got released a while ago14:04
robiladso I asked around for the source code tarball14:05
persiaI noticed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glassfish/+spec/server-j2ee-container is scheduled for UDS, which might be interesting14:05
robiladgot a description of the tags to use to check it out14:05
robiladit uses maven extensively to build14:05
Koonpersia: interesting yes, I'll try to join remotely that one14:06
robilad(like pretty much anything else out there)14:06
Koonrobilad: any clue on the final number of external JARs needed ?14:06
robiladand I haven't been able to find the time to rebuild the final release and count them yet.14:06
Koonmaven should no longer be an obstacle, but library packaging will sure be14:07
robiladah, great!14:07
Koonrobilad: are you coming at UDS ?14:07
robiladI missed that completely, sorry.14:07
robiladunfortunately, no - I'llbe presenting at devoxx next week in belgium14:07
robiladbut I'll try to join in remotely14:08
Koonok, anything else to report on that front ?14:08
robiladI know that joe darcy (openjdk) was planning to come over, I don't know who'll be there from glassfish, etc.14:08
KoonAt least Abhijit, apparently.14:09
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robiladnot from me - I saw there was some progress on the blueprints, and I need to look at them.14:09
robiladcool14:09
Koon[TOPIC] Move to universe14:09
robiladthen I'll get in touch with him.14:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Move to universe14:09
Koonslytherin: ^14:09
slytherinWe have progressed slowly on that front in last week. But we should have major progress this week if jboss gets built.14:10
slytherinonce jboss is built all the jboss packages will move to universe.14:10
Koonslytherin: good, one more contender for the J2EE space :)14:11
robiladnice!14:11
slytherinKoon: right, it tool two release cycles for this contender to enter the race. :-P14:11
Koonnote that I was contacted by the Geronimo devs that would really want to be in too14:11
slytherinKoon: Nice. Tell them not to use maven for building. :-D14:12
Koonbut their build system heavily relies on Maven + lots and lots of JARs14:12
persiaSo we'll have three J2EE containers?14:12
Koonso it's a LOT of work to package14:12
Koonand in the end it might even not work, since they expressely test a specific combination of those 3rd party jars14:13
Koonpersia: at that point we have 0.914:13
Koonth rest is just talk14:14
Koonslytherin: anything else on that front ?14:14
slytherinKoon: Not much. Will be filing bug for libjogl-java today and worldwind eventually.14:14
Koonok14:15
Koon[TOPIC] Maven build support14:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Maven build support14:15
KoonLots of progress on that front.14:15
* robilad looks forward to hearing all about it14:16
KoonLudovic Claude basically started to implement tools14:16
Koonremember that we settled for a system where we rebuild the maven repo at build-time using symlinks to the real system JARs14:16
KoonLudovic created tools to help in that process14:17
robiladnice - that's what maven-helper does?14:17
Koonmvn-go-offline downloads all dependencies14:17
Koonmvn-debianize walks through those dependencies and asks where they should point in the filesystem14:17
Koonthat builds a maven-depmap.xml file that you ship in debian/14:18
Koonthen in debian/rules:14:18
Koon(first you add maven-helper in your build-deps)14:18
Koonmh_prepare_repo reconstructs the POM files and the symlink14:19
Koonmh_mvn calls mvn with the right options14:19
Koonmh_clean cleans up14:19
robiladvery cool14:19
KoonI updated the spec accordingly14:19
robiladthanks14:19
Koonyes, he did a great job14:19
Koonnow he started packaging the missing libraries14:19
Koonthose that every maven build will use14:20
Koonhe needs help in that area, since he is missing debian packaging experience14:20
slytherinjust some heads up, Ludovic contacted me about sponsorship/review/help for the packaging. I hope to find some time this weekend.14:20
Koonslytherin: that's great !14:21
Koonso this is showing good progress14:21
robiladthat's really cool - it's in ludovic's PPA?14:22
KoonThe spec contains pointers to current work14:22
Koonthe mh_tools are in his PPA14:22
Koon(maven-helper)14:22
robiladok, thanks!14:23
Koonthe mvn-* tools are installed manually14:23
Koonsince we are missing a few JARs14:23
Koonany other question on that topic ?14:23
slytherinnone form my side14:24
Koon[TOPIC] Kill Sun Java 514:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Kill Sun Java 514:24
persiaPerhaps "retire" might be a better word?14:24
Koonslytherin: ^14:25
slytherinI haven't found time to draft a spec.14:25
KoonI've talked about it in the server team, and we might want to keep Java 5 around, as an option14:26
Koonbut we should definitely make sure all software works with openjdk614:26
Koonand doesn't require an older version14:26
slytherinKoon: Anything specific that does not work with Java 6?14:27
persiaSo perhaps the main thrust of the effort should be on removing the requirement for 1.4 and 5, but not actually removing them?14:27
Koonslytherin: as an example, I used to build Tomcat6 at Java 6 bytecode level14:27
Koonand I received several requests to build at Java 514:27
Koonbecause some people have application code that doesn't work well in java 614:28
slytherinKoon: But you can do that with java 6 as well. You don't need java 5 for building at source level 514:28
Koonor wasn't certified for it14:28
Koonthey want to run Tomcat6 with a Java 5 jre14:28
slytherinok.14:28
Koon(I still build with openjdk-6)14:28
slytherinI am fine with keeping it around if we are going to migrate all rdepends.14:28
Koonyes, that needs to be done14:29
slytherinBut then we will have to remove it at start of next cycle so that no Debian packages with java 5 as build dep land in Ubuntu.14:29
persiaMight also be interesting to update the long description to suggest users try a newer JRE14:29
Koonpersia: is it an acceptable usage of long descriptions ?14:30
Koon"DON'T USE ME" :)14:31
persiaWell, "This package represents an older implementation.  Most users will be better served by A or B"14:31
Koonslytherin: maybe integrate that in the retire spec ^14:33
slytherinKoon: sure14:33
Koonok, anything else on that ?14:34
slytherinnope14:35
Koon[TOPIC] Open discussion14:35
MootBotNew Topic:  Open discussion14:35
persiaI noticed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/java-for-jaunty yesterday, which might be interesting, although most of us are only attending via VoIP.14:35
robiladthe major thing for 7 on sun's side will be the new modules system to be used to split the jdk into ideas akin to those we bounced around here14:36
Koonwhich track is it on ?14:36
persiaI suspect foundations, but base that entirely on the identity of the assignee14:37
KoonThursday, 3pm14:37
robiladmr posted a series of blogs describing the ideas behind it: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/massive_monolithic_jdk , http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/packaging_java_code , http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/modular_java_platform and http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/jigsaw14:38
persiaThat's 23:00 UTC?14:38
Koonpersia: I think so14:38
robiladalso mentions early 2010 for delivering 7.14:39
Koonserver-j2ee-container wasn't accepted for a UDS session14:39
persiaWell, that's not entirely bad, as we've already some plans for those directions, not documented in that spec.14:40
Koonrobilad: interesting pointers, thx14:41
Koonanything else to add ?14:41
robiladnothing from my side.14:41
robiladmore on that next week, once I've had a chance to digest it all.14:42
Koon[TOPIC] Next meeting14:42
MootBotNew Topic:  Next meeting14:42
KoonWith UDS next week, do we skip the team meeting ?14:42
persiaAre enough of us going to UDS that we're blocked?  Meeting is at 6:00am in the UDS timezone.14:43
persiaAlternately, are we expecting to be sufficiently distracted by other things that we're not expecting progress for next week?14:44
slytherincan anyone please point me to UDS schedule and the listening arrangement?14:44
Koonslytherin: it's dificult to see if you don't register as attending14:44
persiaHas it been posted?  Usually happens only a couple days in advance (although I'm still behind on email)14:44
Koonit's still a moving target14:45
slytherinOk. I thought it was already posted.14:45
slytherinI believe we should have meeting next week to keep watch on maven progress at least.14:45
Koonyes.14:45
Koonnext week, same time, same place14:45
Koon?14:45
slytherinright14:46
Koonslytherin: I'm interested in getting the listening details too, when I have them I'll forward to you.14:46
persiaI'm good for that.14:46
slytherinKoon: sure14:46
persiaThe details are usually put on the UDS wiki page, and often sent to ubuntu-devel@14:46
Koonok, have a great week, and persia, have a good UDS trip.14:47
Koon#endmeeting14:47
MootBotMeeting finished at 08:47.14:47
Koonpersia, slytherin: one of you can chair next week ?14:48
slytherinKoon: I can.14:48
persiaslytherin, Let me know if something comes up, as I'm also available.14:48
Koonslytherin: great. Since my wife can give birth anytime, I prefer to delegate.14:48
robiladall the best!14:49
slytherinKoon: all the best. :-)14:49
slytherinpersia: Sure14:49
Koonthx!14:51
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 01:00: Forum Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council

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