[12:42] <rochdi> Hi
[14:00] <Koon> who's here for the Java meeting ?
[14:00]  * robilad waves
[14:00] <persia> o/
[14:01]  * Koon pings slytherin
[14:02] <Koon> o/
[14:02] <Koon> #startmeeting
[14:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is Koon.
[14:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:03] <Koon> Nothing special except Roadmap review on the Agenda
[14:03] <Koon> [TOPIC] Java on the server stack
[14:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Java on the server stack
[14:03] <Koon> robilad: any progress to report ?
[14:04] <robilad> Koon: I am just unclawing myself from a heap of mail
[14:04] <robilad> so no, not really.
[14:04] <robilad> glassfish v3 just got released a while ago
[14:05] <robilad> so I asked around for the source code tarball
[14:05] <persia> I noticed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glassfish/+spec/server-j2ee-container is scheduled for UDS, which might be interesting
[14:05] <robilad> got a description of the tags to use to check it out
[14:05] <robilad> it uses maven extensively to build
[14:06] <Koon> persia: interesting yes, I'll try to join remotely that one
[14:06] <robilad> (like pretty much anything else out there)
[14:06] <Koon> robilad: any clue on the final number of external JARs needed ?
[14:06] <robilad> and I haven't been able to find the time to rebuild the final release and count them yet.
[14:07] <Koon> maven should no longer be an obstacle, but library packaging will sure be
[14:07] <robilad> ah, great!
[14:07] <Koon> robilad: are you coming at UDS ?
[14:07] <robilad> I missed that completely, sorry.
[14:07] <robilad> unfortunately, no - I'llbe presenting at devoxx next week in belgium
[14:08] <robilad> but I'll try to join in remotely
[14:08] <Koon> ok, anything else to report on that front ?
[14:08] <robilad> I know that joe darcy (openjdk) was planning to come over, I don't know who'll be there from glassfish, etc.
[14:09] <Koon> At least Abhijit, apparently.
[14:09] <robilad> not from me - I saw there was some progress on the blueprints, and I need to look at them.
[14:09] <robilad> cool
[14:09] <Koon> [TOPIC] Move to universe
[14:09] <robilad> then I'll get in touch with him.
[14:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Move to universe
[14:09] <Koon> slytherin: ^
[14:10] <slytherin> We have progressed slowly on that front in last week. But we should have major progress this week if jboss gets built.
[14:10] <slytherin> once jboss is built all the jboss packages will move to universe.
[14:11] <Koon> slytherin: good, one more contender for the J2EE space :)
[14:11] <robilad> nice!
[14:11] <slytherin> Koon: right, it tool two release cycles for this contender to enter the race. :-P
[14:11] <Koon> note that I was contacted by the Geronimo devs that would really want to be in too
[14:12] <slytherin> Koon: Nice. Tell them not to use maven for building. :-D
[14:12] <Koon> but their build system heavily relies on Maven + lots and lots of JARs
[14:12] <persia> So we'll have three J2EE containers?
[14:12] <Koon> so it's a LOT of work to package
[14:13] <Koon> and in the end it might even not work, since they expressely test a specific combination of those 3rd party jars
[14:13] <Koon> persia: at that point we have 0.9
[14:14] <Koon> th rest is just talk
[14:14] <Koon> slytherin: anything else on that front ?
[14:14] <slytherin> Koon: Not much. Will be filing bug for libjogl-java today and worldwind eventually.
[14:15] <Koon> ok
[14:15] <Koon> [TOPIC] Maven build support
[14:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Maven build support
[14:15] <Koon> Lots of progress on that front.
[14:16]  * robilad looks forward to hearing all about it
[14:16] <Koon> Ludovic Claude basically started to implement tools
[14:16] <Koon> remember that we settled for a system where we rebuild the maven repo at build-time using symlinks to the real system JARs
[14:17] <Koon> Ludovic created tools to help in that process
[14:17] <robilad> nice - that's what maven-helper does?
[14:17] <Koon> mvn-go-offline downloads all dependencies
[14:17] <Koon> mvn-debianize walks through those dependencies and asks where they should point in the filesystem
[14:18] <Koon> that builds a maven-depmap.xml file that you ship in debian/
[14:18] <Koon> then in debian/rules:
[14:18] <Koon> (first you add maven-helper in your build-deps)
[14:19] <Koon> mh_prepare_repo reconstructs the POM files and the symlink
[14:19] <Koon> mh_mvn calls mvn with the right options
[14:19] <Koon> mh_clean cleans up
[14:19] <robilad> very cool
[14:19] <Koon> I updated the spec accordingly
[14:19] <robilad> thanks
[14:19] <Koon> yes, he did a great job
[14:19] <Koon> now he started packaging the missing libraries
[14:20] <Koon> those that every maven build will use
[14:20] <Koon> he needs help in that area, since he is missing debian packaging experience
[14:20] <slytherin> just some heads up, ﻿Ludovic contacted me about sponsorship/review/help for the packaging. I hope to find some time this weekend.
[14:21] <Koon> slytherin: that's great !
[14:21] <Koon> so this is showing good progress
[14:22] <robilad> that's really cool - it's in ludovic's PPA?
[14:22] <Koon> The spec contains pointers to current work
[14:22] <Koon> the mh_tools are in his PPA
[14:22] <Koon> (maven-helper)
[14:23] <robilad> ok, thanks!
[14:23] <Koon> the mvn-* tools are installed manually
[14:23] <Koon> since we are missing a few JARs
[14:23] <Koon> any other question on that topic ?
[14:24] <slytherin> none form my side
[14:24] <Koon> [TOPIC] Kill Sun Java 5
[14:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kill Sun Java 5
[14:24] <persia> Perhaps "retire" might be a better word?
[14:25] <Koon> slytherin: ^
[14:25] <slytherin> I haven't found time to draft a spec.
[14:26] <Koon> I've talked about it in the server team, and we might want to keep Java 5 around, as an option
[14:26] <Koon> but we should definitely make sure all software works with openjdk6
[14:26] <Koon> and doesn't require an older version
[14:27] <slytherin> Koon: Anything specific that does not work with Java 6?
[14:27] <persia> So perhaps the main thrust of the effort should be on removing the requirement for 1.4 and 5, but not actually removing them?
[14:27] <Koon> slytherin: as an example, I used to build Tomcat6 at Java 6 bytecode level
[14:27] <Koon> and I received several requests to build at Java 5
[14:28] <Koon> because some people have application code that doesn't work well in java 6
[14:28] <slytherin> Koon: But you can do that with java 6 as well. You don't need java 5 for building at source level 5
[14:28] <Koon> or wasn't certified for it
[14:28] <Koon> they want to run Tomcat6 with a Java 5 jre
[14:28] <slytherin> ok.
[14:28] <Koon> (I still build with openjdk-6)
[14:28] <slytherin> I am fine with keeping it around if we are going to migrate all rdepends.
[14:29] <Koon> yes, that needs to be done
[14:29] <slytherin> But then we will have to remove it at start of next cycle so that no Debian packages with java 5 as build dep land in Ubuntu.
[14:29] <persia> Might also be interesting to update the long description to suggest users try a newer JRE
[14:30] <Koon> persia: is it an acceptable usage of long descriptions ?
[14:31] <Koon> "DON'T USE ME" :)
[14:31] <persia> Well, "This package represents an older implementation.  Most users will be better served by A or B"
[14:33] <Koon> slytherin: maybe integrate that in the retire spec ^
[14:33] <slytherin> Koon: sure
[14:34] <Koon> ok, anything else on that ?
[14:35] <slytherin> nope
[14:35] <Koon> [TOPIC] Open discussion
[14:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
[14:35] <persia> I noticed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/java-for-jaunty yesterday, which might be interesting, although most of us are only attending via VoIP.
[14:36] <robilad> the major thing for 7 on sun's side will be the new modules system to be used to split the jdk into ideas akin to those we bounced around here
[14:36] <Koon> which track is it on ?
[14:37] <persia> I suspect foundations, but base that entirely on the identity of the assignee
[14:37] <Koon> Thursday, 3pm
[14:38] <robilad> mr posted a series of blogs describing the ideas behind it: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/massive_monolithic_jdk , http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/packaging_java_code , http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/modular_java_platform and http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/jigsaw
[14:38] <persia> That's 23:00 UTC?
[14:38] <Koon> persia: I think so
[14:39] <robilad> also mentions early 2010 for delivering 7.
[14:39] <Koon> server-j2ee-container wasn't accepted for a UDS session
[14:40] <persia> Well, that's not entirely bad, as we've already some plans for those directions, not documented in that spec.
[14:41] <Koon> robilad: interesting pointers, thx
[14:41] <Koon> anything else to add ?
[14:41] <robilad> nothing from my side.
[14:42] <robilad> more on that next week, once I've had a chance to digest it all.
[14:42] <Koon> [TOPIC] Next meeting
[14:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
[14:42] <Koon> With UDS next week, do we skip the team meeting ?
[14:43] <persia> Are enough of us going to UDS that we're blocked?  Meeting is at 6:00am in the UDS timezone.
[14:44] <persia> Alternately, are we expecting to be sufficiently distracted by other things that we're not expecting progress for next week?
[14:44] <slytherin> can anyone please point me to UDS schedule and the listening arrangement?
[14:44] <Koon> slytherin: it's dificult to see if you don't register as attending
[14:44] <persia> Has it been posted?  Usually happens only a couple days in advance (although I'm still behind on email)
[14:45] <Koon> it's still a moving target
[14:45] <slytherin> Ok. I thought it was already posted.
[14:45] <slytherin> ﻿I believe we should have meeting next week to keep watch on maven progress at least.
[14:45] <Koon> yes.
[14:45] <Koon> next week, same time, same place
[14:45] <Koon> ?
[14:46] <slytherin> right
[14:46] <Koon> slytherin: I'm interested in getting the listening details too, when I have them I'll forward to you.
[14:46] <persia> I'm good for that.
[14:46] <slytherin> Koon: sure
[14:46] <persia> The details are usually put on the UDS wiki page, and often sent to ubuntu-devel@
[14:47] <Koon> ok, have a great week, and persia, have a good UDS trip.
[14:47] <Koon> #endmeeting
[14:47] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:47.
[14:48] <Koon> persia, slytherin: one of you can chair next week ?
[14:48] <slytherin> Koon: I can.
[14:48] <persia> slytherin, Let me know if something comes up, as I'm also available.
[14:48] <Koon> slytherin: great. Since my wife can give birth anytime, I prefer to delegate.
[14:49] <robilad> all the best!
[14:49] <slytherin> Koon: all the best. :-)
[14:49] <slytherin> persia: Sure
[14:51] <Koon> thx!