=== j1mc is now known as j1mc|away === j1mc|away is now known as j1mc === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === doko_ is now known as doko === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Dec 13:00: Desktop Team | 04 Dec 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 01:00: Forum Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council [12:42] Hi === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Dec 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 01:00: Forum Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler [14:00] who's here for the Java meeting ? === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 01:00: Forum Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council [14:00] * robilad waves [14:00] o/ [14:01] * Koon pings slytherin [14:02] o/ [14:02] #startmeeting [14:02] Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is Koon. [14:02] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [14:03] Nothing special except Roadmap review on the Agenda [14:03] [TOPIC] Java on the server stack [14:03] New Topic: Java on the server stack [14:03] robilad: any progress to report ? [14:04] Koon: I am just unclawing myself from a heap of mail [14:04] so no, not really. [14:04] glassfish v3 just got released a while ago [14:05] so I asked around for the source code tarball [14:05] I noticed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glassfish/+spec/server-j2ee-container is scheduled for UDS, which might be interesting [14:05] got a description of the tags to use to check it out [14:05] it uses maven extensively to build [14:06] persia: interesting yes, I'll try to join remotely that one [14:06] (like pretty much anything else out there) [14:06] robilad: any clue on the final number of external JARs needed ? [14:06] and I haven't been able to find the time to rebuild the final release and count them yet. [14:07] maven should no longer be an obstacle, but library packaging will sure be [14:07] ah, great! [14:07] robilad: are you coming at UDS ? [14:07] I missed that completely, sorry. [14:07] unfortunately, no - I'llbe presenting at devoxx next week in belgium [14:08] but I'll try to join in remotely [14:08] ok, anything else to report on that front ? [14:08] I know that joe darcy (openjdk) was planning to come over, I don't know who'll be there from glassfish, etc. [14:09] At least Abhijit, apparently. === txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger [14:09] not from me - I saw there was some progress on the blueprints, and I need to look at them. [14:09] cool [14:09] [TOPIC] Move to universe [14:09] then I'll get in touch with him. [14:09] New Topic: Move to universe [14:09] slytherin: ^ [14:10] We have progressed slowly on that front in last week. But we should have major progress this week if jboss gets built. [14:10] once jboss is built all the jboss packages will move to universe. [14:11] slytherin: good, one more contender for the J2EE space :) [14:11] nice! [14:11] Koon: right, it tool two release cycles for this contender to enter the race. :-P [14:11] note that I was contacted by the Geronimo devs that would really want to be in too [14:12] Koon: Nice. Tell them not to use maven for building. :-D [14:12] but their build system heavily relies on Maven + lots and lots of JARs [14:12] So we'll have three J2EE containers? [14:12] so it's a LOT of work to package [14:13] and in the end it might even not work, since they expressely test a specific combination of those 3rd party jars [14:13] persia: at that point we have 0.9 [14:14] th rest is just talk [14:14] slytherin: anything else on that front ? [14:14] Koon: Not much. Will be filing bug for libjogl-java today and worldwind eventually. [14:15] ok [14:15] [TOPIC] Maven build support [14:15] New Topic: Maven build support [14:15] Lots of progress on that front. [14:16] * robilad looks forward to hearing all about it [14:16] Ludovic Claude basically started to implement tools [14:16] remember that we settled for a system where we rebuild the maven repo at build-time using symlinks to the real system JARs [14:17] Ludovic created tools to help in that process [14:17] nice - that's what maven-helper does? [14:17] mvn-go-offline downloads all dependencies [14:17] mvn-debianize walks through those dependencies and asks where they should point in the filesystem [14:18] that builds a maven-depmap.xml file that you ship in debian/ [14:18] then in debian/rules: [14:18] (first you add maven-helper in your build-deps) [14:19] mh_prepare_repo reconstructs the POM files and the symlink [14:19] mh_mvn calls mvn with the right options [14:19] mh_clean cleans up [14:19] very cool [14:19] I updated the spec accordingly [14:19] thanks [14:19] yes, he did a great job [14:19] now he started packaging the missing libraries [14:20] those that every maven build will use [14:20] he needs help in that area, since he is missing debian packaging experience [14:20] just some heads up, Ludovic contacted me about sponsorship/review/help for the packaging. I hope to find some time this weekend. [14:21] slytherin: that's great ! [14:21] so this is showing good progress [14:22] that's really cool - it's in ludovic's PPA? [14:22] The spec contains pointers to current work [14:22] the mh_tools are in his PPA [14:22] (maven-helper) [14:23] ok, thanks! [14:23] the mvn-* tools are installed manually [14:23] since we are missing a few JARs [14:23] any other question on that topic ? [14:24] none form my side [14:24] [TOPIC] Kill Sun Java 5 [14:24] New Topic: Kill Sun Java 5 [14:24] Perhaps "retire" might be a better word? [14:25] slytherin: ^ [14:25] I haven't found time to draft a spec. [14:26] I've talked about it in the server team, and we might want to keep Java 5 around, as an option [14:26] but we should definitely make sure all software works with openjdk6 [14:26] and doesn't require an older version [14:27] Koon: Anything specific that does not work with Java 6? [14:27] So perhaps the main thrust of the effort should be on removing the requirement for 1.4 and 5, but not actually removing them? [14:27] slytherin: as an example, I used to build Tomcat6 at Java 6 bytecode level [14:27] and I received several requests to build at Java 5 [14:28] because some people have application code that doesn't work well in java 6 [14:28] Koon: But you can do that with java 6 as well. You don't need java 5 for building at source level 5 [14:28] or wasn't certified for it [14:28] they want to run Tomcat6 with a Java 5 jre [14:28] ok. [14:28] (I still build with openjdk-6) [14:28] I am fine with keeping it around if we are going to migrate all rdepends. [14:29] yes, that needs to be done [14:29] But then we will have to remove it at start of next cycle so that no Debian packages with java 5 as build dep land in Ubuntu. [14:29] Might also be interesting to update the long description to suggest users try a newer JRE [14:30] persia: is it an acceptable usage of long descriptions ? [14:31] "DON'T USE ME" :) [14:31] Well, "This package represents an older implementation. Most users will be better served by A or B" [14:33] slytherin: maybe integrate that in the retire spec ^ [14:33] Koon: sure [14:34] ok, anything else on that ? [14:35] nope [14:35] [TOPIC] Open discussion [14:35] New Topic: Open discussion [14:35] I noticed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/java-for-jaunty yesterday, which might be interesting, although most of us are only attending via VoIP. [14:36] the major thing for 7 on sun's side will be the new modules system to be used to split the jdk into ideas akin to those we bounced around here [14:36] which track is it on ? [14:37] I suspect foundations, but base that entirely on the identity of the assignee [14:37] Thursday, 3pm [14:38] mr posted a series of blogs describing the ideas behind it: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/massive_monolithic_jdk , http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/packaging_java_code , http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/modular_java_platform and http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/jigsaw [14:38] That's 23:00 UTC? [14:38] persia: I think so [14:39] also mentions early 2010 for delivering 7. [14:39] server-j2ee-container wasn't accepted for a UDS session [14:40] Well, that's not entirely bad, as we've already some plans for those directions, not documented in that spec. [14:41] robilad: interesting pointers, thx [14:41] anything else to add ? [14:41] nothing from my side. [14:42] more on that next week, once I've had a chance to digest it all. [14:42] [TOPIC] Next meeting [14:42] New Topic: Next meeting [14:42] With UDS next week, do we skip the team meeting ? [14:43] Are enough of us going to UDS that we're blocked? Meeting is at 6:00am in the UDS timezone. [14:44] Alternately, are we expecting to be sufficiently distracted by other things that we're not expecting progress for next week? [14:44] can anyone please point me to UDS schedule and the listening arrangement? [14:44] slytherin: it's dificult to see if you don't register as attending [14:44] Has it been posted? Usually happens only a couple days in advance (although I'm still behind on email) [14:45] it's still a moving target [14:45] Ok. I thought it was already posted. [14:45] I believe we should have meeting next week to keep watch on maven progress at least. [14:45] yes. [14:45] next week, same time, same place [14:45] ? [14:46] right [14:46] slytherin: I'm interested in getting the listening details too, when I have them I'll forward to you. [14:46] I'm good for that. [14:46] Koon: sure [14:46] The details are usually put on the UDS wiki page, and often sent to ubuntu-devel@ [14:47] ok, have a great week, and persia, have a good UDS trip. [14:47] #endmeeting [14:47] Meeting finished at 08:47. [14:48] persia, slytherin: one of you can chair next week ? [14:48] Koon: I can. [14:48] slytherin, Let me know if something comes up, as I'm also available. [14:48] slytherin: great. Since my wife can give birth anytime, I prefer to delegate. [14:49] all the best! [14:49] Koon: all the best. :-) [14:49] persia: Sure [14:51] thx! === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler === kirklan`` is now known as kirkland === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Dec 19:00: LoCo Council | 16 Dec 01:00: Forum Council | 16 Dec 11:00: Community Council