[01:15] hello all, is there an actual edubuntu repo? [01:15] as in "separate from Ubuntu's"? no. [01:15] oh, you mean all the stuff on the Edubuntu addon cd is in the main ubuntu repos? [01:17] * freetown whacks himself with a big cluestick [01:18] cor...if the 'Edubuntu repo' has 13G of software...mirroring the Ubuntu repos is gonna take a lot of space then!?!? [01:20] freetown: Well, if you are just worried about a certain subset of packages, just mirror those. [01:20] You can be selective. [01:20] (Assuming the *buntu repos are configured similarly to what I'm used to.) [01:20] i guess i use apt-mirror for that? I am very new to Debian/Ubuntu. [01:21] brb [07:42] * freetown test [09:53] Hi [09:53] need help to make local devides work with NX-LTSP5 [09:53] My ltsp server is functional (debian-etch). Local devices work fine with ldm. [09:53] But I need to plug 60 thin clients on a 100Mb network, so NX is indispensable [09:54] Login with NX works [09:54] I've been on : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev page [09:55] Every step is OK until step 3. in step 4, they tell to type the command : [09:55] ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add" [09:55] and to post the error messages on irc [09:55] In my case, it first asks for root password (what it shouldn't do, of course) [09:55] then it says : Error: /tmp/.root-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted [09:56] Does anybody here can help me ? [12:11] Is there any way of viewing a LTSP session? like remote desktop into a thinclient session.. [13:55] I have managed to get "student-control-panel" to work, i can see users desktop with the x11vnc.. but how can i control the desktops? [13:56] its not supported anymore, use Italc [13:58] aaw.. ok i also got italc to work.. but controling a desktop with that is just... its so laggy.. 1 sec update and such [13:59] any advice, on how to getn it faster? [13:59] what kinda of network connection do u have? gigabit, megabit? [14:01] 100mbit [14:02] with gigabit it should be a bit faster [14:03] well, giga is not an option :P but using vnc or rdp on the network have never been a problem [14:03] just slow on italc.. takes ages before the client responds [14:04] the italc "config" says "interval between updates = 1 sec" [14:04] thats the lowest i can choose [14:05] I guess thats because u'd have many screens working together [14:05] just 1 [14:07] right but generally italc is thought for many screens, otherwise just use vnc [14:52] Morning all [15:56] Hello, what's the equivelant "apt-get install" of inserting the edubuntu 8.10 addon cd? Is it "apt-get install edubuntu-desktop"? [15:57] alkisg: yep, that sounds right. [15:58] HedgeMage: thanks! [16:03] np [16:50] OK, I've installed edubuntu-desktop, and then manually installed kde-language-pack-el and gcompris-sound-el for the translations (I hope kde-l10n-el is not needed). [16:50] But what do I have to install to get a translated gpaint? It was automatically translated in previous Ubuntu versions.. [16:59] Well, gpaint's a gnome application, so I assume you need one of the gnome language packs [17:00] language-pack-gnome-el? [17:00] I'd start with that, anyway [17:02] does edubuntu have good language support? [17:03] with good i don't mean comprehensive, but quality wise [17:03] Well, it has support for all the languages that Ubuntu supports, and uses the standard upstream translations. [17:04] ah, ok [17:04] "edubuntu" itself doesn't have any translations, we just use the distro's and/or upstream. [17:04] k [17:05] i want to run a mixed environment with both thin clients, "half fat" clients and fat clients.. can i run this all from the same "pool"? [17:05] You mean, all from the same server? [17:05] If so, then, with a little work, yes. [17:06] well, not necessarily [17:06] but from the same user database [17:06] so that a user will be able to log on which ever client and get up the same workspace [17:07] Well, you'll need things like LDAP authentication, NFS home dirs, etc. But with some work, sure. [17:09] ok [17:28] sbalneav: but what about the setup for a "half-fat" client? [17:28] sbalneav: is that supported by the ltsp server bit? [17:34] stgraber: around? [17:34] zamba: Define "half fat" [17:34] Localapps? [17:35] if so, Intrepid supports them, yes. [17:35] hey LaserJock [17:35] How's it going? [17:35] hi sbalneav [17:35] sbalneav: don't ask :-) [17:35] oh wait, you already did [17:35] sbalneav: boots off network, but stores all data on local hard drive [17:35] zamba: User data? [17:36] If you store a user's home dir on a local drive on one thin client, it won't be available anywhere else. [17:36] more like OS [17:36] or "differences" in OS.. [17:36] i'm not quite sure what i mean now, but i've heard speak about it [17:37] No, no support for that. [17:37] You'll either want thin clients, or thin clients with localapps. [17:38] or fat clients [17:38] A regular fat client's fine too. [17:39] but my scenario is as follows.. i have a mixture of hardware.. some very old computers (which i want to run as thin clients), then some medium range clients (thin clients with local apps) and then the most powerful ones that i want to run as fat clients.. [17:39] but i want all of them to co-exist happily (meaning a user can move from machine to machine and be more or less oblivious to what generation hardware it is) [17:41] and since i have so many different computers, i want to be able to centrally administer these.. meaning updates and such [17:44] Well the thin clients w/wout localapps can be maintained from the LTSP server just fine. A common authentication mechanism like LDAP solves the login problem, and exporting your /home partition as an NFS share will allow the fat clients access. [17:45] Updating the fat clients can either be done centrally with some scripting, or by just logging in as admin onece in a while, and clicking on the update manager. [17:45] using something like apt-cacher will reduce download bandwidth for the updates. [17:45] i want to avoid the last option :) [17:45] Then just script it centrally. [17:45] yeah [18:00] sbalneav: but i have to build a new image each time ubuntu is upgraded? (meaning ltsp now) [18:22] sbalneav, sorry, now I saw your answer. I do have language-pack-gnome-el installed. gpaint was localized in hardy; maybe there's a problem with the gpaint greek translation in intrepid. [18:23] I'll contact the greek gnome team [18:37] LaserJock: yep [18:37] LaserJock: we've got an edubuntu session at 12, can you attend ? [18:38] stgraber: I'd like to [18:38] stgraber: are you gonna use gobby? [18:38] LaserJock: ok, do you have skype ? [18:38] or just mostly chat? [18:38] I do have skype [18:38] LaserJock: that's what we were wondering, they didn't mention gobby during the introduction [18:39] bummer [19:24] sbalneav: around ? [19:25] stgraber: yes [19:25] zamba: yes [19:25] sbalneav: are you also interested in attending that edubuntu session ? [19:25] That now? [19:25] 35min [19:26] Sure, we gonna have a gobby up? [19:26] yeah, I created a document (empty at the moment) on gobby.ubuntu.com [19:26] ogra!!! [19:26] Awesome [19:26] I'll join in [19:27] I'll also have my eee with me so will have skype (in case the sound in the room is as broken as it currently is here :)) [19:27] * ogra waves to sbalneav [19:27] (sorry, very busy, i'm the session note taker) [19:27] NP [19:39] LaserJock: You in the goooby session? [19:39] sure am [19:40] sbalneav: added the branding item [19:40] Ah [19:41] There a way in gibby I can see who's connected? [19:41] huf durf [19:41] found it. [19:43] hey sbalneav [19:43] Hey hey RichEd! [19:44] just saw your comment in my gobby session ++application bundles [19:44] I'm in the gabby session [19:44] is that referring to the edu app bundle spec I just created ? [19:45] i can see you in gobby ... but novice gobby user (me) no know how to autocomplete nicks there ... does summat else :/ [19:45] I copy/pasted the link to your spec yes [19:45] so we don't discuss it during this session but during yours [19:47] when is the later one? [19:47] not scheduled yet [19:48] k [19:48] RichEd added it to LP some minutes ago [19:48] I wish LP would be hooked up to the schedule so you would get an update with schedule changes to sub'd specs [19:50] hi guys ... coupla things for Jaunty [19:50] [1] I think we need to have the edubuntu discussion before the application bundles one [19:50] Hey, RichEd ! Long time no see. [19:51] [2] LaserJock - i'll flesh out a wiki page for the application bundles ... linked to the blueprint ... can you add in your menu work comments please so we are all kind of on the same page before we have the bundle session [19:52] * HedgeMage wonders what gibby/gabby/gobby is. [19:52] RichEd: yeah, makes sense [19:52] [3] LaserJock & sbalneav would be good to have you both in the bundle / menu session (remotely) so we must make sure we have schedule at a time that you guys can both attend [19:53] [4] I'm here (at UDS) until end of Wed, then back on the paraffin budgie back to sunny .za so we need to get the stuff on the agenda before end wed [19:53] hi HedgeMage [19:54] RichEd: did you ever get that email I sent you re: computer club? [19:54] gobby is a collaborative editor ... used at UDS so everyone can hack away on the same document in glorious technicolour or technicolor for the spellingly challenjed (sic) [19:54] heh :) [19:55] HedgeMage: i kept an eye out for it but seemed to have missed it ... please reasend [19:55] resend even :p [19:55] RichEd: Will do -- it'll require a rewrite, though, as I was a little overzealous in cleaning out my email a couple of weeks ago (nuked my whole sent folder -- oops!) [19:56] RichEd: So give me a day or two to get my stats back together. [19:58] stgraber / sbalneav / LaserJock : dumb question ... how the fork do i change my nick in gobby to be my nick and not my ubunty user logon name ? [19:59] IIRC you can change that when connecting to the server [19:59] moving to the room now for the edubuntu meeting, see you there [20:00] can we use this room for IRC discussion during the BOF? [20:00] yes [20:04] LaserJock, sbalneav: if you guys have skype and want to listen/speak just add "stgraber" to your contact list [20:06] Don't have anything here today, will just contribute via gobby/irc [20:07] ok [20:08] LaserJock: remote sound problem it says [20:09] yeah, working on it [20:12] meeting where? [20:13] In gobby [20:13] gobby.ubuntu.com [20:13] stgraber: well, I can hear ok but the mic sounds just awful [20:14] LaserJock: did u see the changes I did in edubuntu.org, and did they look ok? [20:16] nubae: I wasn't exactly sure what you had changed [20:16] which I suppose is a good thing [20:19] stgraber: yeah [20:19] :-) [20:19] stgraber: I can hear and see you alright [20:19] stgraber: my mic is messed up so I'll just listen and "talk" on gobby/irc [20:19] There should be a mention in the edubunty strategy about sugar, no? [20:19] Can we use ekiga? [20:20] nubae: yes there is a section in the strategy document for sugar [20:21] also, i have recently been contacted by a sugar lead about a closer relationship with edubuntu ... let me dig out his name [20:21] can we start with branding/naming? [20:21] ok, so we have a gobby session with some of the points we'd like to discsuss in this session [20:21] I think it might help use define what we're doing more [20:21] LaserJock: sounds like a good idea [20:21] RichEd: probably morgs [20:21] or David Farning [20:21] also looking at my beginnings of the strategy doc [20:21] yeah, probably David Farning [20:22] David Farning [20:22] There [20:22] for easier editing [20:23] morgs I did a presentation on ltsp and sugar thi weekend (6 clients) with collaboration and it worked quite nicely, but there are still many apps taht dont work and various control panel issues [20:23] in our last meeting we discussed a proposal [20:23] should I open bug reports for all that, and where as its kinda ltsp/ubuntu specific [20:23] TOPIC: w.r.t. with the revised approach to edubuntu being an add-on to the ubuntu install ... where are there gaps / issues / shortcomings ? [20:23] nubae: yeah, I'm aware of at least some of them, report them in launchpad [20:23] 1) Ubuntu in Education would stay on ubuntu.com/education and be more marketing as a way to funnel people into appropriate "products" [20:23] 2) Ubuntu Educational Edition should be dropped [20:24] +1 [20:24] 3) Edubuntu be the "product"/project centered around educational software in Ubuntu [20:24] RichEd: primarily we're just getting a lot of confusion regarding the various terms [20:25] well to comment on my own topic, and w.r.t. LaserJock's 2) ... the decision (out of my hands :/) to no longer print and issue a CD for education means that Ubuntu Education Edition is now somewhat meaningless [20:25] yeah people's eyes glaze over when we begin with edubuntu, the ubuntu in education, additional pacakges addon cd [20:25] RichEd: so can we drop that everywhere? like on the CD download page? [20:25] LaserJock: w.r.t. 3) does product make any sense ? would project be better ? [20:26] RichEd: well "project" is certainly better, but we do produce a "product" [20:26] LaserJock: let's chew on all of this and take decisions later (before the end of UDS) [20:26] agree a lttle with RichEd there [20:26] and we need to have some sort of name for the .iso that isn't going to confuse everybody [20:26] LaserJock: is it a product, or is it a superset of ubuntu extras ? [20:26] it's a product in that we have an .iso [20:27] unless we want to get rid of that too (which I don't recommend) [20:27] RichEd: but the product is "ubuntu extras" [20:28] and (excuse my out of touchness) is the .iso the education-add-on or are you referring to an edubuntu install .iso ? [20:28] education-addon [20:28] there is definite interest in schools being able to download something that contains all or some sets of educational packages [20:29] a CD would be nice too of course, but if its not going to be shipped does it really serve a purpose? [20:29] so I think we need to call the .iso *something* you know :-) [20:29] okay ... so in my view, there is great value behind edubuntu as a brand / concept / rallying cry ... [20:29] and the education edition branding is now showing value and is just adding confusion [20:30] well, there's 2 essential issues that I see here [20:30] so perhaps the best approach (imho) is to retain and focus on Edubuntu as the community and project behind adding education value to Ubuntu [20:30] retaining the edubuntu IRC channel [20:30] retaining the edubuntu.org web site [20:30] as being the place(s) where "all things education" are gathered inside ubuntu [20:31] agreed... it fits with the other naming schemes like kubuntu and xubuntu [20:31] does that meet general agreement ? [20:31] yep [20:31] so basically going back to what edubuntu was (from a naming/branding point of view) ? no problem :) [20:32] Then, as LaserJock says ... we (canonical) use www.ubuntu.com/education as a way to promote to OEM and government and users that ubuntu has a huge education value ... the "pre-sales" pitch [20:32] regather the pieces from various edges of the interent :-) [20:32] I think the questions are 1) what do we call the CD and 2) how do we talk about "Ubuntu in Education" from the Edubuntu perspective? do we need to worry about it at all? [20:32] RichEd: it gives you greater ability to offer then kubuntu, ubuntu itself, or edubuntu [20:33] And when the user / tester / evaulator moves from sniffing and tyre kicking to wanting to try it out ... they go to edubuntu.org to: [20:33] seems like 1) it should simply be "Edubuntu" and 2) we should point to ubuntu.com/education but otherwise not talk about it a whole lot as people will get there via ubuntu.com [20:33] 1. find out how to install the "education cutomised / value-added" ubuntu offering [20:34] 2. participate in education community / development [20:34] 3. get support etc. [20:34] is 1 avalable? I dont think so right now... as a cd/product [20:34] nubae: how do you mean? [20:34] nubae: it's ubuntu + edubuntu (as in the current educational addon cd) [20:34] well cd is not available from canonical [20:35] it requires tinkering to get the stuff working together [20:35] its not a unified product [20:35] stgraber: right... is seperate elements [20:35] nubae: this is the company policy ... .iso will be available for download [20:35] nubae: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/8.10/ [20:35] edu add-on will be included in the ubuntu DVD [20:36] oh, thats good at least, something I was unaware of [20:36] If there's tinkering required, those are bugs, and we should fix 'em :) [20:36] ok, so are we broadly in agreement on things then? [20:36] so if a school / education department wants a simple clean "hold in the hand" one source install ... the DVD will be the best option [20:36] its just that schools want to install edubuntu, and we have to tell them to a. download the ubuntu cd, b install it, c download the edubuntu cd, d install that... [20:36] RichEd: are you calling the ubuntu.com/education stuff "Ubuntu in Education"? [20:37] (this change was based on the current view that any decent machine now can read DVD) which was not the case 2 years ago# [20:37] yeah thats fine really [20:37] can we drop "Ubuntu Educational Edition"? I don't see a use for that term [20:37] LaserJock: Ubuntu in (the world of) Education [20:37] except for countries like Nepal and Somalia [20:37] LaserJock: Ubuntu in (the) Education (sector) [20:38] yeah the edition part doesnt make sense there [20:38] ubuntu in education sounds fine though [20:38] nubae: agreed (and me from africa understands) but those are considered to be fringe users [20:38] so, from my side: [20:38] #1 we are all pretty much in agreement [20:38] #2 cox the Ubuntu education edition ... as a non starter [20:39] and ... #3 Edubuntu is revitailised as the Project and Community behind adding education value to Ubuntu and supporting the Education [20:39] user [20:40] ok, makes sense to me [20:40] sounds good [20:40] stgraber: how about you? [20:40] aye / nae ... votes on addiong those 3 points to the strat document as conclusions [20:40] sounds good [20:40] there has been a little bit of increased interest for edubuntu lately, even for the Spanish list [20:40] is that even active? [20:40] not the spanish -devel list anyway [20:40] well sent someone there yesterday :-) [20:41] regarding spanish ... we are getting closer to Isotrol, the company (Canonical Silver Partner) behind Guadalinex ... [20:41] ++ [20:41] RichEd: what is the nature of their involvment? [20:42] RichEd: have you looked at the beginnings of my strategy doc? it's in gobby right now [20:42] this relationship will spit out a case study / reference as well as processes / procedures for deployment and support of massive schools infrastructure [20:42] 300,000 desktops, in 1,200 locations, with a support staff of 27 people on the help desk [20:42] wow, nice... [20:43] where? [20:43] their approach is open source philisophy from the classroom all the way through the whole system [20:43] Andalucia Spain [20:43] no way... jeez, I just set up a school down there [20:43] more on that later ... let's wrap this session first ... [20:43] I'd like to get the strategy doc more or less finished by the end of UDS [20:43] k [20:43] LaserJock: agreed [20:44] that will help us answer questions and give purpose for the rest of the release [20:44] let me bring in an approach consideration that has perhaps not been made clear ... give me a few lines to expand ... [20:45] with the add-on / and application bundling approach ... the idea is to introduce the otherwise unaware user / evaluator to the depth of education applications sitting in the repositories [20:46] so daddy at home can go to education in the add/remove section and chose "primary school" (the age of his kiddie who will be sharing the home PC) and get a blokc of apps downloaded [20:46] the same for a teacher ... [20:46] right Laserjock mentioned better grouping [20:46] and the use of edubuntu-menus [20:46] or for someone who has been tasked with evaluating Ubuntu vs MSFT or fooLinux [20:47] I have got a full list of all of the edu apps in the repositories and classified by school age level [20:47] has the idea of a group of apps that is windows based been dropped completely? [20:47] nubae: ?? windows based group ?? MSFT or GUIwindow ... whaddya mean here ? [20:48] something that runs on windows [20:48] for evaluation purpopsed [20:48] like the WinFLOSS stuff? [20:48] yeah [20:48] I don't think we're gonna have room for WinFLOSS as we move forward [20:48] seperate cd? [20:48] but perhaps we can work with WUBI [20:48] I'll add the application category list to the spec page for the apps bundles ... will get that done by start of tomorrow ... [20:49] think its valuable to hand a windows teacher, and say, here... try the edubuntu apps [20:49] I think WinFLOSS will need to drop down to a list / wiki page ... but I don't think we can cater for it effort wise beyoind gthat [20:49] RichEd: ok, so I sort of see this as Edubuntu is about creating/maintaing/supporting educational bundles, as you put it [20:49] if u like it, we can install edubuntu in your school [20:49] I don't think handling windows applications is edubuntu's goal, I'd prefer to focus first on having it working correctly on Ubuntu :) [20:50] RichEd: we then ship those bundles all together on the Edubuntu .iso [20:50] its just bundling, nothing more, no support [20:50] through wubi is fine I suppose anyway [20:50] we need to look at some prioritization though [20:50] Intrepid kinda almost didn't happen [20:50] can someone perhaps take that on and create a section in the strat doc ariound WinFLOSS ? [20:51] lets focus on fundamentals [20:51] I'd agree [20:51] get those in shape and then spread out from there [20:51] I'm happy to list all the edu apps on the website... I think thats valuable [20:51] right now we have ~ 250 bugs open [20:51] most of them haven't been triaged [20:51] many of the apps we're shipping are downright crap [20:51] We've got too few people now... Having to manage building floss for winders just adds more work to the mix. [20:52] sbalneav: +1 [20:52] well we can keep it for rainy day [20:52] CLOSING COMMENTS ... can I suggest that we proceed as follows for UDS [1] stgraber and RichEd and LaserJock and nubae and sbalneav all take some time to review and add to the strat doc before midday tomorrow [20:52] +1 [20:52] +1 [20:52] [2] I schedule the apps bundling session for tomorrow after midday [20:52] +1 [20:52] Will do. [20:53] cool [20:53] [3] we remeet on wed morning to take this conversation further, against the strat doc, and get things bedded byu the end of that session ? [20:53] Surely [20:53] should we edit the strategy on gobby or drop it from here and simply edit it on the wiki ? [20:53] let's edit the wiki page [20:53] ok [20:53] Outside of the session, just edit the wikikiki [20:53] so stgraber will file this session under "needs another session" for wed [20:53] we didn't do much/anything in gobby on it today did we? [20:53] RichEd: can u send me the list of edubuntu apps [20:54] nubae: i'll upload the spreadsheet onto the wiki strategy page [20:54] ok [20:54] k [20:55] I updated the gobby page and will see how I can get it scheduled again (it's a bit different than previous UDSes) [20:55] w.r.t. editing ... agreed go direct on the wiki ... [20:55] stgraber: excellent, thanks [20:56] Is there an icon available for every edubuntu app? [20:57] well, sorta [20:57] all the GUI apps should have icons I think [20:57] nubae: indeed ... you can see them all in add/remove description [20:57] if they don't it's a bug [20:57] k [20:57] but we do have server packages and things that don't have icons [20:57] I recall seeing some missing [20:57] I updated a bit the gobby document so that it contains the major points of what we discussed [20:57] they are all on your file system somewhere ... add/remove works off local info / files [20:58] great ... let stgraber have the gobby doc -> wiki strategy page "job" as documenter ... and we all let him get that done without multi-edits from ourselves for say the next 3 hours / [20:59] then we can dive in and add our own 2c before tomorrow [20:59] I just added one line :-) [21:04] thanks guys ... see you in a bit [21:06] * nubae waves [21:25] stgraber: have u got an explanation somewhere of ltsp-cluster in laymens terms? [21:30] I'm a little comfused: there the edubuntu handbook (https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook), which was previously known as the CookBook (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook). But on the edubuntu documentation page (http://www.edubuntu.org/Documentation) there are mentioned as "Reference" and "Comprehensive" documentation seperately! [21:30] And there's also https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters, adding to my comfusion... So, finally, which of those is consindered alive? [21:32] well, honestly none of them [21:33] alkisg: are you interested in LTSP documentation? [21:33] LaserJock: I'm writing an ltsp/edubuntu manual, and I want to give the URLs to whatever edubuntu documentation I can find. [21:34] But as you said, most of the things I found was last updated at least 2 years before... [21:34] alkisg: oh, interesting. Is it just for internal use or is it something you hope the public will use? [21:34] LaserJock: It's for the public, about 70 pages right now, but in Greek only... :( [21:35] alkisg: for LTSP the best source of documentation is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream [21:35] Yeap, that's the first URL in the appendix! :) [21:35] The second is (ubuntu....)/UbuntuLTSP [21:35] we'll hopefully be packaging that up into something you can install in your Edubuntu machine in the next release [21:36] LaserJock: another thing I don't quite understand, is why there is an edubuntu cd... If it's the same with apt-get install edubuntu-desktop, I mean. To save bandwidth? [21:37] pretty much yeah [21:37] OK... thanks! :) [21:37] a lot of places don't have great bandwidth [21:37] so they can burn a CD and pass it around [21:37] also it gives you everything all in one place [21:37] So, for greek schools where 300MB is not much of a problem, I can just instruct them to use synaptic... [21:38] (I just tried the CD in intrepid and it downloaded >100MB updates, so I didn't have much of a benefit...) [21:38] alkisg: yeah, there's edubuntu-desktop and then several edubuntu-addon metapackages as well [21:39] does edubuntu-desktop include all of them? [21:39] I think so [21:39] I mean, I should know this, but its totally unclear :p [21:40] I think 2-3 apps are left out [21:40] whihc ones? [21:40] the CD also has some stuff that's not in edubuntu-desktop that aren't specificaly educational [21:40] gvim for instance [21:40] nubae: Eh... I'll have to start my server again... can't tell right now! [21:41] nubae: gvim was one of them [21:41] but the educational stuff should all be there [21:41] (my test server right know is an ancient amd @750, takes a lot of minutes to start!) [21:42] LaserJock: thank you very much, you've been a lot of help! [21:42]