[03:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[03:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 21:00. The chair is barry.
[03:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[03:00] <barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's asiapac reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
[03:01] <barry> mwhudson_, jml, thumper ?
[03:01] <jml> barry: !
[03:01] <thumper> hi
[03:02] <mwhudson_> hellooo
[03:02] <barry> hi!
[03:02] <barry> how is everyone today?
[03:02] <thumper> frustrated
[03:02] <barry> thumper: dang, what's up?
[03:02] <thumper> barry: [testfix] annoyances, and the way most of the email processing is hardcoded to malone
[03:03] <barry> on the first, i feel your pain
[03:03] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[03:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[03:03] <barry>  * Roll call
[03:03] <barry>  * Printing strings in doctests (barry)
[03:03] <barry>  * Gavin's `pretty()` function (allenap)
[03:03] <barry>  * Sabbaticals? (barry)
[03:03] <barry>  * Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry)
[03:03] <barry>    * [[attachment:cover.txt]]
[03:03] <barry>  * If there's time, the old boring script
[03:03] <jml> barry: I'm well. Busy and getting things done, but frustrated by the slow speed of almost all of our technologies and by the way that Launchpad still doesn't make it easier for my work to flow.
[03:03] <barry>    * Next meeting
[03:03] <barry>    * Action items
[03:03] <barry>    * Mentoring update
[03:03] <barry>    * Queue status
[03:04] <barry> wow, there must be something in the air down there today :/
[03:04] <mwhudson> i'm just generically grumpy, i don't think there's any particular reason
[03:04]  * barry thinks we should sprint for two weeks on *that*
[03:04] <mwhudson> so maybe you're right!
[03:04] <mwhudson> (also it's not sunny today)
[03:04] <thumper> I haven't had enough coffee
[03:04] <thumper> and I'm all out of beans
[03:05] <jml> thumper: :(
[03:05]  * sinzui has cans of emergency espresso
[03:05] <jml> anyway, we are all here, right?
[03:05]  * thumper laughs at sinzui
[03:06] <mwhudson> sinzui: i had emergency coffee in a can from a vending machine in tokyo.  it was a strange experience :)
[03:06] <barry> well, let's jump right in and get this over with ;)
[03:06] <jml> barry: yes, let's :)
[03:06] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Printing strings in doctests (barry)
[03:06] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Printing strings in doctests (barry)
[03:06] <barry> so, in a couple of recent reviews, we've talked about doctests, and print strings instead of just returning them
[03:07] <jml> wherefore?
[03:07] <barry> this is useful if you don't care whether you're getting a unicode or 8-bit, and because nobody cares about quotes
[03:07] <thumper> barry: I normally print strings
[03:07] <barry> thumper: excellent
[03:07] <thumper> barry: if I feel the need to write doctests
[03:07] <sinzui> returning them shows if they are unicode or ascii
[03:07] <thumper> barry: which I normally don't
[03:07] <barry> thumper: right :)
[03:07] <barry> sinzui: right.  you rarely care
[03:07]  * sinzui does not like print strings in translations and answer tests
[03:08]  * thumper doesn't care
[03:08] <jml> barry: ok. so this is just heads up on another review checklist item?
[03:08] <barry> jml: yep
[03:08] <jml> barry: where *does* that review checklist live?
[03:08] <barry> jml: it's still in the old wiki, but i think i know what i might spend my hour of wiki gardening on :)
[03:08] <jml> heh heh.
[03:08] <barry> though, that's not the canonical wiki, but still
[03:09] <barry> now, i just have to clear that with my team leader
[03:09] <barry> that's all i have on this topic anyway
[03:09] <jml> cool.
[03:09] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Gavin's `pretty()` function (allenap)
[03:09] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Gavin's `pretty()` function (allenap)
[03:09] <barry> so, just another heads up.  allenap landed a nice addition in a recent branch
[03:10] <barry> pretty() is just the global binding for python 2.5's pprint function
[03:10] <barry> which fixes dictionary ordering
[03:10] <barry> yay!
[03:10] <barry> so it's something that we as reviewers can encourage devs to use when the opportunity comes up
[03:10] <thumper> are we using python 2.5?
[03:10] <jml> 2.4 has pprint
[03:10] <jml> (2.3 has pprint, even)
[03:10] <barry> thumper: nope.  he just installed 2.5's pprint module in a special place
[03:11] <barry> jml: yep, but < 2.5 has a bug in dictionary printing where order is not guaranteed
[03:11] <jml> I guess that's a bug if you love doctests :)
[03:11] <barry> lol
[03:11] <mwhudson> pprint appeared in 1.2 or something :)
[03:11] <barry> or review them... <wink>
[03:12] <barry> anyway...
[03:12] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Sabbaticals? (barry)
[03:12] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Sabbaticals? (barry)
[03:12] <thumper> you going somewhere?
[03:12] <thumper> oh
[03:12] <thumper> I know
[03:12] <barry> thumper: yep.  fridays/west :)
[03:12] <thumper> you want to come to the code team
[03:12] <thumper> :)
[03:13] <barry> thumper: well, i gotta give BHO a chance first
[03:13] <jml> what's all this about?
[03:13] <jml> bho?
[03:13] <barry> okay!
[03:13] <thumper> Obama
[03:13] <barry> so, intellectronica asked for a break from reviewing, so we really just came up with a (very loose) policy on that
[03:14] <thumper> barry: we'd have you even if you stayed where you are
[03:14] <barry> basically we have enough reviewers so people can take short breaks
[03:14] <barry> the policy is that you have to clear it with me first.  i promise i won't charge you much
[03:14] <barry> thumper: whatever happened to that cross-team training?
[03:15] <thumper> barry: it didn't take too well
[03:15] <jml> barry: Launchpad 2.0 partly
[03:15] <barry> unfortunately, i don't know how much this affects you guys becuase of the timezones, but i wanted to communicate the decision to you anyway
[03:15] <jml> barry: thanks.
[03:15] <thumper> barry: I think people get stuck with what they're into
[03:15] <sinzui> I thought the new policy was to move people every 12 months
[03:16] <thumper> sinzui: there is a policy?
[03:16] <jml> barry: I think the summary is that we don't really need to take sabbaticals because the load is pretty low, and there are so few of us that sabbaticals would leave a shortage of reviewers.
[03:16] <mwhudson> jml: +1
[03:16] <barry> jml: cool
[03:16] <sinzui> In September we decide where priorities lie and juggle people.
[03:16] <barry> sinzui: that's an interesting idea.  i think some people would be up for trying new things and others like it where they are
[03:16]  * sinzui was on 4 teams in 18 months
[03:17] <jml> next item?
[03:17] <barry> [TOPIC] Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry)
[03:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry)
[03:17] <barry> i proposed a rough draft at last week's ameu meeting.  i have a more fleshed out example:
[03:18] <thumper> I think we should have one
[03:18] <barry> https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerMeetingAgenda?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=cover.txt
[03:18] <barry> it's probably too much to read right now.  i'll send an email
[03:19] <mwhudson> barry: it's certainly pretty long
[03:19] <barry> i've been using it for my last several branches.  i try to start writing it before i start hacking
[03:19] <barry> mwhudson: mostly because it has examples
[03:19] <barry> mwhudson: the headings are really the only useful bits
[03:20] <mwhudson> ok
[03:20] <barry> jml, mwhudson do you think it would be useful to have a standard (even if this one isn't it)?
[03:20] <jml> barry: yes, but I think it's more useful as a tool than as a mandatory form, if you catch my drift?
[03:21] <mwhudson> barry: yes, especially if we can have a tool to write chunks of it
[03:21] <barry> jml: as part of a tool?  e.g. resurrect that bzr plugin perhaps?
[03:21] <jml> barry: I mean, the culture around it should be "use it as much as it helps", not "you must fill in each field"
[03:21] <barry> jml: gotcha.  i agree
[03:21] <thumper> jml: +1 on that
[03:22] <barry> thanks.  good feedback
[03:22] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[03:22] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[03:22] <barry> that's it from me.  do y'all have anything for me or the ameus?
[03:22]  * jml thinks
[03:23] <jml> an idea that's only tangentially related...
[03:23] <jml> Twisted has this thing where information about the tests for a module live in comments (as emacs variables) in that module
[03:24] <jml> That could gradually replace "run <foo> to test these changes"
[03:24] <jml> that's out of scope for this meeting though.
[03:24] <jml> ignore me.
[03:25] <barry> jml: i'm interested in hearing more, but perhaps on the ml?
[03:25] <sinzui> jml: that sounds like allenap's branch that runs the tests from the code coverage report.
[03:25] <jml> barry: *nod*
[03:25] <jml> sinzui: yeah, this is just less magic & more explicit.
[03:25] <mwhudson> it also coincides a little with my rant about "tests should be in directories called 'tests'"
[03:26] <sinzui> +1
[03:26] <jml> mwhudson: :)
[03:26] <barry> +1
[03:26] <barry> sinzui: sounds like we have enough material for at least 2 2-week hackathons :)
[03:26] <sinzui> Happy holidays
[03:27] <barry> :-D
[03:27]  * sinzui is planning the death of blueprints
[03:27] <barry> forced vacations == +1
[03:27] <jml> sinzui: heh heh
[03:27] <barry> on that note.  anything else from you guys?
[03:27] <jml> barry: meeting next week?
[03:27] <thumper> sinzui: I'd like to see that plan
[03:28] <barry> jml: same time and place?
[03:28] <jml> cool.
[03:28] <jml> I'm done
[03:28] <sinzui> thumper: When I can fit it on one page, the plan is ready for publishing
[03:28] <thumper> barry: sounds good to me
[03:28] <barry> jml: i think we have one or twomore left for the year.  i'll leave it up to you if we do the 23rd or not
[03:29] <barry> you == y'all
[03:29]  * jml nods
[03:29] <barry> i probably will /not/ have an ameu meeting on the 24th
[03:29]  * thumper plans to be away on the 23rd
[03:29] <barry> k
[03:29] <barry> with that...
[03:29] <barry> #endmeeting
[03:29] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:29.
[03:29] <barry> thanks guys
[03:30] <jml> barry: thanks