[00:11] <NCommander> StevenK, https://edge.launchpad.net/~sonicmctails/+archive
[00:36] <tjaalton> umm, could an archive-admin promote x11proto-dri2 to main, new mesa/xorg-server will depend on it
[00:37] <tjaalton> it's just protocol headers, no security issues etc :)
[00:44] <tjaalton> pitti, slangasek, ..: ^^ :)
[00:57] <St_Peter> Is anyone from uds listening here?
[00:58] <cody-somerville> yes
[00:59] <St_Peter> okey please ask them that are talking about boot up perfomance to see how to fit in the accessibility things as well in the chain.
[01:13] <pitti> tjaalton: sorry, UDS madness; looking
[01:15] <pitti> tjaalton: argh, source is in main; can you please file an MIR bug? I'll do it later then
[01:24] <tjaalton> pitti: it is? to me it looks like it's in universe, both source and binary
[01:24] <tjaalton> pitti: but I can file a bug too
[01:24] <pitti> tjaalton: yes, only a quarter of a brain; I meant "universe"
[01:27] <tjaalton> pitti: yes, promotable packages usually tend to be, right? :)
[01:28] <ScottK-laptop> tjaalton: If source is in Universe, then it needs a MIR.
[01:28] <pitti> tjaalton: I thought it was a binary in universe for a src in main
[01:28] <pitti> tjaalton: if it's a trivial package, just file a bug
[01:28] <tjaalton> ScottK-laptop: wouldn't be the first time a x11proto is promoted without paperwork, but I've filed a bug already
[01:29] <tjaalton> pitti: right, it's bug 306383
[01:36] <Riddell> tseliot: does your X setup stuff have a name?
[01:37] <tseliot> Riddell: not yet
[01:38] <Riddell> tseliot: "new display setup tool" it is then
[01:38] <tseliot> Riddell: yes, that's appropriate
[02:20] <emgent> calc: really big and important question: why in Ooocal there is starwars game? :-)
[03:07] <ozgurgerilla> Hi everyone I want to contribute to Ubuntu can someone tell me how to make a start
[03:14] <LaserJock> ozgurgerilla: do you have a particular area you would like to contribute to?
[03:17] <ozgurgerilla> LaserJock: I want to start as a tester or join the bug squad
[03:17] <jdong> ozgurgerilla: Thanks for having an interest in contributing to Ubuntu; There's a lot of ways one can help the project and community; most of them are listed at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[03:17] <jdong> if you have any specific questions we're all here to answer them :)
[03:18] <jdong> ozgurgerilla: have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad and/or joined #ubuntu-bugs?
[03:19] <ozgurgerilla> I was just wondering what language do I need to know to write and test code in?
[03:19] <ozgurgerilla> I'm just reading the website you've provided, many thanks.
[03:20] <jdong> Ubuntu contains software written in a wide variety of languages
[03:20] <jdong> debs are also built with the help of a packaging "language" if you will, that is described in the MOTU documentation too
[03:20] <jdong> you can contribute with little to no programming experience and pick up bits of knowledge as you go along
[03:21] <jdong> Furthermore with the volume of bugs that our userbase reports, we need a *LOT* of help just sifting through them, figuring out which ones are valid, which ones are duplicates, and so on
[03:21] <jdong> and that stuff is very important work for us and doesn't really need any computer science or programming background
[03:22] <ozgurgerilla> which project do you think I should join first as a 3rd year programmer with some knowledge in C, C++, Java and functional languages?
[03:23] <jdong> what do you like to do? Do you like finding bugs, writing documentation, providing support to the community, creating packages for your favorite programs, etc?
[03:24] <jdong> I've been told I'm magical and all, but I can't tell what your interests are :)
[03:24] <LaserJock> pfft
[03:25] <ozgurgerilla> :) I like creating packages and finding bugs but I am hesitating to start doing that as it might be difficult. Is there programming projects that are for intermediate or beginers level? if yes, where can I find information to join such developing groups?
[03:26] <jdong> LaserJock obviously disagrees with my ego
[03:26] <ozgurgerilla> LaserJock is obviously prejudging ;)
[03:26] <jdong> ozgurgerilla: I don't think either of the tasks you mentioned are difficult or technically involved.
[03:26] <jdong> the MOTU section of the wiki has good walkthroughs on making packages
[03:27] <jdong> and #ubuntu-bugs can probably point you towards what kind of work bug-triaging typically entails
[03:27] <jdong> I suggest trying both and seeing which one you like
[03:27] <ozgurgerilla> jdong: is mirc the main way of communication?
[03:28] <jdong> IRC tends to be the primary communications medium for developers.
[03:28] <jdong> the mailing lists are also popular for the developers if you need more to engage in in-length discussions
[03:28] <LaserJock> jdong: no no, I was just scoffing at the idea that you can't read minds ;-p
[03:30] <jdong> I can barely read this SELinux manual set in front of me :)
[03:30] <LaserJock> what has MIT done to you?!
[03:31] <jdong> haha
[03:31] <ozgurgerilla> :) thanks for the help jdong
[03:31] <ozgurgerilla> good night.
[03:31] <jdong> nor do I know why I am at "Zero Insertion Force" on wikipedia from the Mandatory Access Control page :)
[03:31] <jdong> I don't know how people who actually have attention deficit issues use wikis...
[03:32] <LaserJock> amen to that
[03:32] <LaserJock> the other day I was looking up Density Functional Theory for a dissertation chapter
[03:32] <ajmitch> jdong: getting lost in a maze of wiki links?
[03:32] <jdong> yes
[03:32] <LaserJock> and ended up reading an article on the rivalry between the nazi SS and SA
[03:33] <ajmitch> mmm, procrastination
[03:33] <jdong> I've even forgotten exactly why I opened wikipedia to begin with
[03:33] <ajmitch> LaserJock: completely the same topic!
[03:33] <LaserJock> there was a connection
[03:33] <ajmitch> I'm sure there was, somewhere :)
[03:34] <jdong> 6 degrees to Hitler, is it?
[03:34] <LaserJock> something about somebody not getting a Nobel prize because one of the guys the worked with later joined the SA
[03:34] <LaserJock> *they
[05:02] <NCommander> nixternal, ping?
[05:15] <amikrop> When will Python 2.6.x and 3.0.y be packaged and get into the repositories?
[05:22] <ScottK-laptop> amikrop: Python 3.0 is already there
[05:23] <amikrop> ScottK-laptop: You are right. What about 2.6?
[05:24] <ScottK-laptop> I'd guess the next couple of weeks.
[05:24] <ScottK-laptop> It's a matter for doko and when he has time AFAIK.
[05:27] <amikrop> ScottK-laptop: He is the packager of Python, for Ubuntu?
[05:27] <amikrop> ScottK: Also, will Python 2.6 be added to the repositories in that version of Ubuntu? I thought that only bug and security fixes are applied in daily updates.
[05:29] <ScottK-laptop> amikrop: Yes.
[05:29] <ScottK-laptop> For Intrepid, you won't see 2.6.  That'll be in Jaunty.
[05:29] <ScottK-laptop> We will update the 3.0 RC in Intrepid to the final.
[05:32] <amikrop> ScottK-laptop: I see. Thank you.
[06:22] <calc> emgent: because they would rather write games than fix bugs at sun?
[06:41] <hyperair> crimsun: ping. i'm curious to know why you removed all my attachments from bug 202089
[12:17] <philsf> I'm getting this from update-manager since last week: Failed to fetch http://br.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy-proposed/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2  Hash Sum mismatch. Shoud this be looked into?
[12:18] <philsf> In the first time, I thought it was a syncing issue, but it's been days since the first time I saw it
[12:31] <Company> philsf: bad time to ask, the whole crew's in california for UDS
[12:32] <Company> and it's 3.30AM there
[15:09] <NCommander> hey StevenK
[16:49] <NCommander> StevenK, morning
[16:50]  * StevenK grumbles. It's morning?
[16:56] <ScottK> It's always morning somewhere.  That's the problem with it.
[19:21] <Keybuk> I've come up with a use case for libtool linking all dependency libraries
[19:21] <Keybuk> it makes tracing reverse dependencies *much* easier since I don't have to walk a tree <g>
[19:33] <alex-weej> i've noticed that bringing my notebook back from suspend sometimes the sound doesn't work -- if i kill pulseaudio and restart it comes back
[19:33] <alex-weej> anyone any ideas?
[19:38] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you just like playing ops don't you :p
[19:38] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: :P.  Nah.  Just being thrown big scary red warnings about the scripts being wrong.
[19:38] <Mithrandir> hi walters
[19:39] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir!
[19:39] <Mithrandir> also, hi LJ, Hobbsee
[19:39] <walters> hello
[19:39]  * StevenK waves to Mithrandir
[19:39] <Mithrandir> how's the googleplex?
[19:40] <Hobbsee> interesting.
[19:40] <LaserJock> Mithrandir: hello!
[19:40] <StevenK> Big and scar ^W^W^WPerfectly fine.
[19:41] <Mithrandir> they're still fattening up the devs, I presume?
[19:41] <StevenK> The lunch yesterday was large
[19:49] <luisbg`> what was the jaunty UDS irc channel?
[19:50] <Hobbsee> #ubuntu-devel-summit
[19:50] <luisbg`> Hobbsee, thanks!
[19:51] <didrocks> pitti: thanks for the upload :) sorry for the core dev change. I might be tired when doing that as I was sure to do the contrary: motu -> core dev in control file :/
[20:32] <mohbana__> how do i control how much history is saved in the command line?
[20:33] <jdong> that's not an #ubuntu-devel topic.
[20:35] <mohbana__> very helpful.  thanks
[20:35] <jdong> y... you're welcome?
[21:00] <alex-weej> crimsun: your PA packages just segfault
[21:00] <alex-weej> E: shm.c: Invalid shared memory segment size
[21:00] <alex-weej> times lots
[21:01] <alex-weej> then SIGSEGV
[21:01] <crimsun> erm, segfault?!  they're usable here :/   Can you roll back a libc6* version?
[21:01] <alex-weej> i don't know, can i?
[21:01] <alex-weej> if i run under GDB i get this first:
[21:01] <alex-weej> [New process 12759]
[21:01] <alex-weej> Executing new program: /proc/12759/exe
[21:01] <alex-weej> /proc/12759/exe: Permission denied.
[21:02] <alex-weej> no idea what that menas
[21:02] <alex-weej> *means
[21:02] <crimsun> if you roll back to jaunty's pa packages, try just placing the extracted /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/01PulseAudio
[21:03] <alex-weej> i'm on intrepid...
[21:03] <crimsun> hmm, I thought you were running jaunty.  Anyhow, then you need the 01PulseAudio file from 202089
[21:04] <alex-weej> if all it's going to do is kill pulseaudio on sleep and then start it again on resume
[21:04] <alex-weej> then there's no point, that obviously works
[21:04] <crimsun> doesn't kill; suspends
[21:04] <alex-weej> ok i will try it later
[21:04] <alex-weej> my stomach is knacking with hunger so i gotta go!
[21:04] <alex-weej> bbl
[21:04] <crimsun> it's known upstream, this just works around it
[21:04] <alex-weej> ok cool
[22:45] <RAOF> Ok.  So, this time we've deliberately sync'd nouveau from Debian :).  I'll do the cleanup requried to make nouveau-kernel-source uploadable, then.
[23:36] <phix> hey, excuse my bluntness but what idiot put pulse alsa pluging in ubuntu 8.10?
[23:40] <RAOF> The person who wanted audio to work.  I presume this breaks something for you?
[23:42] <RAOF> If so, a bug report is a nice permanent way of recording this in a fasion that makes it possible to diagnose and fix :).  Initial discussion here is possibly useful, but it'll want to end up in launchpad.
[23:43] <Keybuk> tseliot: around?
[23:44] <tseliot> Keybuk: yep
[23:44] <phix> RAOF: yes it does, it doesn't pick up that I want to use hdmi as output (it is the only output device in there)
[23:44] <phix> RAOF: ok
[23:45] <Keybuk> tseliot: screen-resolution-backend
[23:45] <Keybuk> that has a D-Bus service
[23:45] <Keybuk> do you really not want anyone to communicate with it?
[23:46] <Riddell> MacSlow: this is the new notifier in KDE 4.2 http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/knotify.png
[23:46] <tseliot> Keybuk: yes, it uses policykit
[23:46] <tseliot> Keybuk: why should anything else use it?
[23:46] <RAOF> phix: That sounds like it could be a pulseaudio bug; I presume that your alsa is actually exposing a hdmi output?  If so, pulse shouldn't be ignoring it.
[23:46] <Keybuk> tseliot: it uses policykit?
[23:46] <Keybuk> does it not have any methods of its own?
[23:47] <Keybuk> it reserves the com.ubuntu.ScreenResolution.Mechanism bus name?
[23:47] <tseliot> Keybuk: yes, since it has to access the xorg.conf
[23:47] <phix> RAOF: yes, I am in #alsa and I can get the sound test working
[23:47] <tseliot> Keybuk: yes
[23:47] <Keybuk> which looks like it exports setVirtual() method?
[23:47] <Keybuk> (which uses PK for authorization?)
[23:47] <tjaalton> who could look at an armel/lpia build failure (mesa) ?
[23:47] <tseliot> Keybuk: right
[23:47] <Keybuk> but you don't have anything in your dbus conf that actually *allows* anyone to call that method
[23:47] <Keybuk> you need something like:
[23:47] <Keybuk>   <policy context="default">
[23:48] <phix> RAOF: but I need to specify device as hdmi or hw:0,3.  I tried setting pcm!default=hdmi or somethign to that effect but alsa doesn't take any notice of that since pulse is being used or something like that
[23:48] <Keybuk>     <allow send_destination="com.ubuntu.ScreenResolution.Mechanism"/>
[23:48] <Keybuk>   </policy>
[23:48] <StevenK> phix: But how does that also mean "but what idiot put pulse alsa pluging in ubuntu 8.10?"
[23:49] <phix> StevenK: pulse in general is a beta sound daemon
[23:49] <phix> StevenK: and doesn't set my default output device correctly
[23:50] <RAOF> Right.  But that's a bug, rather than a bad design decision.
[23:50] <phix> StevenK: and wont allow me to do it manually in alsa
[23:50] <tseliot> Keybuk: I don't think I really want other programs to use that method. I'll do something similar for my other tools soon though
[23:50] <Keybuk> what program uses that method then?
[23:50] <tseliot> Keybuk: for my new Display Configuration tool and for other tools which will share part of its code
[23:51] <tseliot> Keybuk: currently screen-resolution-extra is used in the Gnome Screen resolution applet
[23:51] <RAOF> phix: Anyway, you might want to install paman - see whether pulse is seeing your hdmi output at all, and see what pulse thinks your outputs are.
[23:51] <Keybuk> tseliot: I think you're missing my point
[23:51] <Keybuk> *nothing* can use that dbus service
[23:51] <tseliot> Keybuk: when you need to set the virtual resolution in the xorg.conf
[23:51] <Keybuk> wayyy before you even get to PK
[23:51] <tseliot> Keybuk: well my app does
[23:51] <Keybuk> right
[23:51] <tseliot> Keybuk: slangasek used it today in front of you
[23:52] <Keybuk> if your app uses it, you need to allow it to communicate over dbus
[23:52] <Keybuk> with the snippet I gave above
[23:52] <pochu> kees: thanks for the upload :)
[23:52] <tseliot> Keybuk: are you saying that my app is not using dbus?
[23:53] <MacSlow> Riddell, thanks for the pointer!
[23:53] <Keybuk> tseliot: no, I'm saying that your app only works because of a security flaw in dbus
[23:53] <Keybuk> and as soon as we fix that, your app will break :)
[23:53] <tseliot> Keybuk: ah, that's really good to know
[23:53] <kees> pochu: thanks for all the packaging work!
[23:53] <phix> RAOF: ok
[23:53] <tseliot> Keybuk: I'll fix it in Intrepid and Jaunty then
[23:54] <tseliot> Keybuk: thanks for reporting
[23:56] <phix> RAOF: what is wrong with esound?
[23:57] <Keybuk> tseliot: bug
[23:57] <RAOF> phix: It was (a) unmaintained (b) had terrible latency problems (and would hence cause a/v desync) which caused (c) no one used it.
[23:57] <Keybuk> tseliot: bug #307705, debdiff attached
[23:58] <Keybuk> bug #306705, sorry
[23:58] <phix> RAOF: ok
[23:59] <tseliot> Keybuk: did you test it?
[23:59] <Keybuk> tseliot: no, not yet
[23:59] <tseliot> Keybuk: I'll have to do that anyway. Thanks a lot for the patch