[00:31] <jjesse-dell9> seele: is my power supply for my dell still there by you?
[00:36] <jjesse-dell9> i think she is ignoring you
[00:36] <jjesse-dell9> ignorning me
[00:43] <JontheEchidna> bug 226119 made me squirt my orange juice out of my nose
[00:44] <JontheEchidna> which would have been a good thing except citric acid generally isn't nice to your nasal passage :(
[00:44] <JontheEchidna> (well, the last comment of said bug)
[00:52] <Hobbsee> i want to know who the falks are.
[00:52] <Hobbsee> or what.
[00:54] <Riddell> Hobbsee: whit?
[00:55] <Hobbsee> ;)
[00:55] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: we've had that before, the qt with nessus doesn't have the same symbols as us
[00:56] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I've seen that too
[01:15] <vorian> sup guys!
[01:52] <yao_ziyuan> i'm curious about how ubuntu checks upstream packages for security breaches.
[01:52] <yao_ziyuan> for example, if we install chinese language support in ubuntu, "stardict" will be automatically installed.
[01:53] <yao_ziyuan> stardict is maintained by someone in mainland china. he was my msn buddy and i know he is politically trustworthy,
[01:53] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: Would you mind doing binary New on mlt++.
[01:53] <yao_ziyuan> but what if it's someone in china/russia we don't know?
[01:54] <\sh> yao_ziyuan: who tells you that any dev/packager is political correct? Just because of the country he/she is living?
[01:54] <yao_ziyuan> right
[01:54] <yao_ziyuan> so is there any mechanism to check?
[01:54] <\sh> yao_ziyuan: tbh, this thinking is so wrong...
[01:55] <yao_ziyuan> tbh=?
[01:55] <vorian> to be honest
[01:55] <\sh> to be honest
[01:55] <yao_ziyuan> is there peer review of source code?
[01:56] <\sh> the community
[01:56] <yao_ziyuan> but it is possible that stardict's source code is never reviewed by someone else?
[01:57] <yao_ziyuan> because it's not a standard component
[01:57] <yao_ziyuan> it is only installed when chinese language support is enabled.
[01:57] <\sh> yes...but that could happen to openoffice as well
[01:58] <ScottK-laptop> yao_ziyuan: It's free software, the source is available so anyone can review it.
[01:58] <yao_ziyuan> so it's easier to plant a backdoor in open source projects than in wikipedia
[01:58] <ScottK-laptop> I don't think that follows.
[01:58] <yao_ziyuan> *than to vandalize in wikipedia
[01:59] <ScottK-laptop> Actually it's quite trivial to get false information into Wikipedia.  It just needs to be on an obscure topic.
[01:59] <yao_ziyuan> in wikipedia, if an article is of little interest to the public and is not watched by anyone, then it's very likely that vandalism to it is not caught.
[01:59] <\sh> yao_ziyuan: yes and no...using windows, you already have backdoors you don't know...but
[02:00] <ScottK-laptop> Right, commercial software vendors outsource coding to all kinds of places and there is no way to know or check.
[02:00] <\sh> I don't know any source which was doing something nasty and wasn't revelead in no time
[02:00] <yao_ziyuan> i do believe microsoft reviews every line of code
[02:01] <ScottK-laptop> yao_ziyuan: Why do you believe that?
[02:01] <ScottK-laptop> And how do you know what they review it for?
[02:01] <yao_ziyuan> microsoft easily has money to hire people to do the review
[02:01] <ScottK-laptop> Your definition and theirs of acceptable might be widely different.
[02:01] <ScottK-laptop> Microsoft is in the business of making profits.
[02:02] <ScottK-laptop> It's not in their interest to spend more on code than they need to.
[02:02] <yao_ziyuan> ok
[02:03] <\sh> yao_ziyuan: why do you think it's so difficult for the EU government to get hands on the source of MS Windows? (actually theyhave now for a good bunch of the code, but not all, especially the cryptographic stuff is problematic)
[02:03] <yao_ziyuan> ok skip microsoft
[02:04] <ScottK-laptop> Today almost all large commercial software development is done by doing the design and specifications in house and outsourcing the actual code to the lowest bidder.
[02:04] <ScottK-laptop> I've done consulting work for one large anti-spam vendor that did all their coding in the Ukraine.
[02:04] <yao_ziyuan> ok, let's focus on the original problem
[02:05] <\sh> we hire nearshoring companies from romania
[02:05] <yao_ziyuan> if we have a malicious author
[02:05] <yao_ziyuan> who creates and maintains a package
[02:05] <yao_ziyuan> the packages seems to work fine
[02:05] <yao_ziyuan> and ubuntu includes it
[02:05] <yao_ziyuan> and even installs it by default
[02:05] <ScottK-laptop> But someone has to decide to include it.
[02:06] <ScottK-laptop> If it's installed by default (in Main) there is at least some security audit done.
[02:06] <yao_ziyuan> someone decides to include it because it seems useful and working
[02:06] <yao_ziyuan> good to hear that
[02:06] <ScottK-laptop> Gotta go put a kid to bed.  Back in a bit.
[02:06] <yao_ziyuan> gotta sleep
[02:12] <ScottK-laptop> If I lived in China, I'd be nervous too.
[02:12] <Tm_T> ScottK-laptop: glad our little one finally sleeps more than 2 hours at night
[02:13] <ScottK-laptop> ;-)
[02:13] <ScottK-laptop> Our 'little one' is now 5, so it's a different set of excitments.
[02:14] <Tm_T> I know (:)
[02:14] <Tm_T> I'm more used to be with kids than babies
[02:17] <\sh> don't make me nervous...I need my sleep...at least I won't get it in less then 5 months ,-)
[02:20] <ScottK-laptop> Bawah-ha-ha-ha-ha!
[02:20] <ScottK-laptop>  ^^ is an evil laugh if you can't tell.
[02:20] <\sh> hmm...I got that ,-)
[02:20] <Tm_T> kids...
[02:21] <\sh> if my son will be born around the release time of jaunty...he will be nicknamed "jaunty" and it will be written in his identity card
[02:22] <ScottK-laptop> Who's the Kubuntu person going to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-hotkey-madness
[02:22] <Tm_T> \sh: as your grandmother/-father I don't approve that
[02:22] <\sh> Tm_T: hehe
[02:22] <ScottK-laptop> \sh: No Jackalope tatoos.
[02:23] <\sh> ScottK: oh...no...but there will be a tatoo..on my arm..with the name of our offspring :)
[02:25] <ScottK-laptop> I'm cool with that.
[02:25] <ScottK-laptop> Just keep in mind you may have more than one, so consider room for expansion so the later ones don't feel left out.
[02:26] <ScottK-laptop> Not kidding on that one, BTW.  One of my wife's brothers didn't think that through very well.
[02:27] <\sh> ScottK: my back has enough room for more then two or four ;)
[02:28] <\sh> and oh...I did something right...my nfs filestores with drbd and heartbeat were surving a kernel update
[04:15] <chaztrip> can some one help with a question...  I am trying to install mono on kubuntu and getting errors...
[04:30] <ScottK-laptop> Not very patient these mono folks.
[04:38] <\sh> grmpf...fcked up while working on cisco access lists...
[05:34] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: mlt approved
[05:35] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: Thanks.  I think I can do kdenlive up to a KDE4 version now.
[05:36] <Riddell> awooga
[05:36] <NCommander> hey Riddell
[05:38] <Riddell> evening NCommander
[05:38] <Riddell> NCommander: coming for a swim?
[05:38] <NCommander> no swim trunks
[05:38] <Riddell> nobody's looking
[05:38] <NCommander> I'm mulling for sleep
[05:41] <seele> a bit cold for a swim
[05:41] <NCommander> the cold makes it nice
[05:42] <NCommander> Riddell, who else is going to go swim?
[05:43] <ScottK-laptop> Did Hobbsee get thrown in the pool yet?
[05:43] <ScottK-laptop> Perhaps it's seele's turn this time.
[05:43] <seele> no
[05:43] <seele> on both counts
[05:43] <NCommander> If Hobbsee is going to get thrown in the pool, I'll go down
[05:43] <NCommander> That would be worth watching
[05:44] <NCommander> I'm currently enjoying mythbusters
[05:44] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Got some time for an FTBFS?  It's even in Universe so you can upload it ...
[05:44] <NCommander> Maybe
[05:44] <NCommander> I'm kinda burnt at the moment, but I can add it to my queue
[05:44] <ScottK-laptop> It's mlt.  Seems to have died on quite a number of archs.
[05:44] <seele> NCommander: she says she may put her feet in .. i dunno about the pool throwing bit though
[05:45] <NCommander> Wait
[05:45] <NCommander> Soemthing just authed as me ...
[05:45] <NCommander> O_o;
[05:46] <NCommander> o_o;
[05:47] <NCommander> seele, Riddell, I'll be down in about ten minutes when I change and finish seeing if a radar can cook a turkey
[05:47] <seele> NCommander: i'm not going down :)
[05:48] <NCommander> seele, you don't even want to join us around the pool?
[05:49] <seele> NCommander: not after i see you throw people in
[05:49] <NCommander> I don't throw people in
[05:49] <NCommander> I just watch and laugh
[05:52] <Hobbsee> oh, so people are going swimming?
[05:52] <Hobbsee> I was contemplating it, at some point
[05:53] <NCommander> Hobbsee, it would be interesting to see
[05:53] <NCommander> I just watched a turkey denotate
[05:53] <Hobbsee> NCommander: what, me swimming?
[05:53] <Hobbsee> er, why?
[05:54] <NCommander> Hobbsee, no, just seeing people downstairs being social. Cause, you know, being social is cool
[05:54]  * NCommander is half-awake and fairly easy to confuse at the moment
[05:54] <NCommander> as for exploding turkeys
[05:54] <NCommander> Well, why not?
[06:01] <Hobbsee> there is that
[11:19] <glade88> http://forum.kde.org/gwenview-save-as-problem-t-19263.html#pid24568 -- would be a bug?
[12:24] <doc___> hi there
[12:58] <cbr> aww crap kwin is using 80% cpu
[12:59] <cbr> i better reboot or something, the laptop's fan is going nuts
[13:16] <cbr> nice.. and now suspend to ram won't work in jaunty :(
[13:16] <hunger> cbr: You can sudo pm-suspend. That still works.
[13:17] <hunger> cbr: kpowersave does as well. Every other GUI seems to be broken though.
[13:22] <cbr> nope, sudo pm-suspend doesnt work
[13:22] <cbr> the screen goes black as if it's going to suspend
[13:22] <cbr> but then suddenly the picture reappears
[13:25] <cbr> i dont remember updating anything power-management related
[13:25] <cbr> ugh..
[13:27] <cbr> this is rather frustrating.. will power management ever work fine on linux
[13:27] <hunger> cbr: Apparently ubuntu policy requires two power managment breakages per release.
[13:28] <jtechidna> lol
[13:28] <ScottK> jtechidna: Three for Kubuntu.
[13:28] <cbr> i dont know, my mum has ubuntu on her laptop, seemed to look well, i think kde is the problem child
[13:29] <cbr> *seemed to work well
[13:29] <hunger> cbr: Well, ubuntu and kde do not really go well together IMHO. ubutu has a very gnomish base:-(
[13:29] <jtechidna> of course :P
[13:30] <cbr> well, i'd use debian but debian doesnt ship new kde packages as fast as kubuntu.. or puts them in the experimental repo which is somewhat annoying to use
[13:31] <cbr> altogether, debian gave me a more solid experience though.. maybe not shipping the new stuff, is why :p
[13:31] <cbr> why can't we have the good from both worlds
[13:31] <hunger> cbr: Yeap, I've been entertaining the thought of heading back to debian for a while now.
[13:31] <hunger> cbr: Just don't find the time to actually pull it through...
[13:34] <cbr> it sucks that no major distribution is behind kde
[13:34] <cbr> that would probably move things in the right direction a lot faster
[13:35] <cbr> but i guess i can understand their motives as well.. they need a stable system, nothing too fancy, kind of like winxp.. something they can develop for and not worry that their code will be redundant in two years time
[13:35] <cbr> and gnome is good for that
[13:35] <ScottK-laptop> cbr: Which release are you one?
[13:35] <hunger> cbr: Sucks much more that the gnomes come up with lots of really bad interfaces all the time:-(
[13:35] <cbr> ScottK-laptop: jaunty
[13:36] <hunger> cbr: network-manager, pulseaudio and other useless stuff.
[13:36] <ScottK-laptop> cbr: It's really not actually expected to work very well at the moment.  If you want working, run Intrepid (or even Hardy).
[13:36] <hunger> ScottK-laptop: Those are no fun and all the packages are outdated anyway:-(
[13:36] <cbr> yeah, if i'd want something stable and productive, i'd use windows :p
[13:36] <cbr> i want the action :p
[13:37] <hunger> Apropos pulseaudio: Why is that started in kubuntu? Breaks phonon here...
[13:37] <cbr> dunno, network-manager seems to Just Work (tm)
[13:37] <cbr> they sodomized the kde interface though
[13:37] <cbr> so i'm using the gnome systray applet
[13:37] <cbr> which works fine
[13:38] <ScottK-laptop> hunger: You can't have it both bleeding edge and stable.
[13:38] <hunger> cbr: nm has really *CRAPPY* interfaces.
[13:38] <cbr> you mean the user interface?
[13:38] <hunger> cbr: No, the programmers interfaces. D-Bus in that case.
[13:38] <cbr> oh, i don't care much for that :p
[13:38] <cbr> the gui is nice
[13:39] <hunger> ScottK-laptop: I am not complaining too loudly about something breaking. Just told cbr how I work around the problem he has as well.
[13:39] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[13:39] <hunger> cbr: Well, it is so ugly that the kde guys wrote solid so they had not to deal with it...
[13:40] <hunger> cbr: actually that is only part of the reason for solid of course.
[13:40] <cbr> uhuh.. but nothing uses solid to control it.. the only useful thing that has come of the solid nm thingy is that apps are aware when the network is up
[13:40] <cbr> but there's no control interface
[13:40] <cbr> which is kind of the point of nm
[13:41] <jtechidna> that's because suse doesn't need a nm interface until they release the next opensuse :P
[13:41] <jtechidna> (a nm interface for KDE4)
[13:41] <jtechidna> oh well, at least one will be ready for Jaunty
[13:42] <hunger> Well, there is a plasmoid in kde 4.2 for solid/nm AFAIK.
[13:42] <cbr> that's a bit sad if you start to think about it.. KDE4 was released in jan 2008, will it be functional by jan 2009? i wouldn't bet money on it? by jan 2010? i would bet like 5 bucks on it but then it has been out for 2 years already.. that's like a lifetime
[13:43] <cbr> not that it wasn't a welcome development and a necessary step and kde4 looks awesome an all
[13:44] <cbr> and*
[13:44] <hunger> cbr: Will would have made much better progress if NM wouldn't suck so hard:-)
[13:45] <hunger> cbr: NM-applet only works since it is the demo app the NM guys keep up to date IMHO.
[13:45] <hunger> Well, don't take me too seriously... I am stuck over my head in gnome "technology" and hate it. So my outlook is a bit negative at this time:-)
[13:46] <ScottK-laptop> cbr: Put it a different way ...  KDE4 has been being developed for ~ 3 years and is already a big step forward.  MS took 5 years to make Vista and take a step back.
[13:46] <ScottK-laptop> In the scheme of things, I think KDE does pretty good.
[13:47] <cbr> yes, but some of the developments are rather peculiar..
[13:48] <cbr> for example strigi, nepomuk etc.. oh goodie, i can rank my files (dont know why i would want to do that but i can) but i can't connect to a wireless network nor control my display power management properly (up until 4.2)
[13:49] <ScottK-laptop> Oddly enough, both those things work pretty much fine for me.
[13:50] <jtechidna> to be fair that's a narrow view of the purposes of those two frameworks are. Most of what they are purposed to do still hasn't been fully implemented yet (
[13:50] <jtechidna> see also: semantic desktop)
[13:50] <cbr> is that all the tagging stuff?
[13:51] <jtechidna> yeah, the base framework is there but there's not really any useful way to use the info
[13:51] <jtechidna> e.g. search integration into kfind or semantic browsing in dolphin
[13:51] <cbr> that's another thing i dont get.. i know all the computer scientists like to play around with tags, rdf etc.. but i have never ever seen anybody actually tag their files.. except on youtube or flickr where it makes sense
[13:52] <xerosis> when I have a load of papers to read, I tag them as 'read' after I'm done, so at least one person does :)
[13:53] <jtechidna> it is also assuming that developers are absolutely fungible resources. The nepomuk dev is working on grant money to develop semantic/rdf technologies, and is by no means an expert in developing network manager type interfaces (not that he couldn't be if he wanted to)
[13:53] <jtechidna> he is pursuing his hobby/job by developing nepomuk, and he probably wouldn't be working on nm even if he wasn't working on nepomuk
[13:54] <jtechidna> though he probably would be working on the KDE4 k3b port :P
[13:54] <jtechidna> (since he's k3b's author also)
[13:55] <jtechidna> So yes, it's a bit frustrating when some areas are overlooked, but there's no simple solution or cause for blame
[13:55] <cbr> yeah, a lot of thought was put to get the frameworks there.. but the apps on them were kind of completely forgotten
[13:56] <cbr> not to blame the developers who did hard work, but that's how it is, there's no denying that
[13:56] <cbr> and i really like kde, so that saddens me a bit
[13:57] <ScottK-laptop> cbr: You're judging the building half built and complaining the top half isn't built yet.
[13:59] <cbr> hey, i was handed an apartment in that building and allowed to move in
[13:59] <cbr> aren't i kind of entitled then? :p
[13:59] <jtechidna> are you paying rent? :P
[14:00] <cbr> no, does that mean instead of stairs i should be happy with a nailon rope? ;)
[14:00] <ScottK-laptop> cbr: It means if you don't like the nylon rope you shouldn't have moved in.
[14:00] <cbr> *nylon probably
[14:00] <ScottK-laptop> KDE3 is around and still quite usable.
[14:01] <ScottK-laptop> We updated Kubuntu Hardy to 3.5.10 post release exactly because not everyone will want to be on KDE4 yet.
[14:01] <cbr> but my real estate agent said it was ready so i was happy to move into a modern house from the rather tasteless one i was living in
[14:02] <ScottK-laptop> We rather explicitly said KDE 4 is not for everyone yet, so I don't buy that analogy.
[14:04] <cbr> well, to be honest, that was said after the first disappointing reviews of the soon-to-be-released 4.0 were coming out.. and nobody said that about 4.1
[14:04] <cbr> i'm not blaming again, i just feel like arguing at the moment :p
[14:07] <ScottK-laptop> cbr: I disagree.
[14:08] <ScottK-laptop> cbr: Our release announcement explicitly says you may not want to upgrade: http://www.kubuntu.org/month/2008/10
[14:09] <cbr> yeah, i know kubuntu did, i was talking about upstream
[14:09] <cbr> kubuntu made the best of the situation, i imagine
[14:09] <ScottK-laptop> Unless you're installing from their tarballs, I don't think that's really relevant.
[14:11] <cbr> i tend to think of distributions as binary repositories.. the thought of them actually being separate OSes with release cycles etc is kind of strange to me
[14:12] <ScottK-laptop> Well we do a lot of integration work here that gives a more polished product.
[14:12] <cbr> maybe that's because i started off with gentoo and that pretty much didnt have releases, they were basically just snapshots of the current tree.. i'm a spoilt child :p
[14:13] <cbr> anyway, i'm hungry, i hope the shop has some of that delicious tuna salad
[14:13] <cbr> bye
[14:19] <ScottK-laptop> So the bottom line of that conversation was, "Like wow, you guys actually do stuff"?
[14:22] <directhex> i think it was "why isn't jaunty released yet?"
[14:25] <ScottK-laptop> I want the very latest and I want it to be polished, stable, and complete.
[14:26] <directhex> i blame google
[14:27] <directhex> they broke the meaning of the word "beta", causing people to expect pre-release code to be complete & polished
[14:27] <jtechidna> I think we're very lucky that KDE3 got to the point where an svn snapshot could be considered polished, stable, and complete in the first place
[14:32] <ScottK-laptop> I recall about 10 years ago being in a meeting where we were reviewing the status of a program.
[14:33] <ScottK-laptop> I mentioned to the program manager that there is an old program management saying, "Better, cheaper, faster: Pick two" and I thought he just had (cheaper, faster).
[14:33] <ScottK-laptop> He told me that no, he'd figured out how to do all three.
[14:33] <ScottK-laptop> About a year later the program was cancelled because there was no way it could meet its objectives.
[14:35] <jtechidna> Heh,
[14:36] <seele> Riddell: what was i pinging pinotree for again?
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> jtechidna: Got time to look at a Cmake problem for me?
[15:03] <ScottK-laptop> If you do, please grab http://debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/k/kdenlive/kdenlive_0.7-0.0.dsc (You'll have to adjust the libavcodec-dev and libavformat-dev versions for our ffmpeg versioning) and tell me why it can't find MLT?
[15:03] <ScottK-laptop> Good morning NCommander.
[15:04] <NCommander> Morning Scottk
[15:04]  * NCommander is dry from yesterday!
[15:04] <ScottK-laptop> Got time for a bit of revu hackery?  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/?archive=4208
[15:04] <NCommander> sure
[15:04] <NCommander> REVU just gave me a traceback ...
[15:05] <ScottK-laptop> Right.  That's the problem.
[15:05] <NCommander> Oh, I thought it required reviewing
[15:05] <NCommander> I don't have a REVU installation locally
[15:06] <ScottK-laptop> Well it's apparently broken'ish and RainCT isn't around, so I'm looking at you.
[15:06]  * ScottK-laptop gets more coffee ....
[15:11]  * hunger hates debugging kparts.
[15:11] <seele> coffee..
[15:15] <Riddell> seele: okular window opens in alternate sizes
[15:15] <seele> Riddell: kde4 beta?
[15:16] <Riddell> yes
[15:16] <seele> beta 1 or beta 2?
[15:16] <Riddell> beta 1
[15:16] <Riddell> worth checking on a computer that isn't me though
[15:16] <seele> hmm.. tonio has it installed, we can look on it
[15:17] <seele> i can't risk running beta on my work laptop.. i wish there was a way to create an additional kde installation like neon
[15:17] <Riddell> chroot
[15:18] <seele> what's that?
[15:19] <hunger> seele: chroot moves / into some subdir.
[15:20] <hunger> seele: You can install e.g. a new ubuntu with kde 4.2 into /home/test and then chroot into that dir.
[15:20] <seele> waiting until i get home and use my test machine sounds easier
[15:21] <hunger> seele: tse, tse, tse. All those young people don't know their unix anymore and don't want to learn it either;-)
[15:22] <rgreening> seele, do you use vm's? as you can install a test image into a vm via virtualbox (its quite easy)
[15:23] <hunger> rgreening: Why a VM when a chroot is enough? VMs are much slower.
[15:23] <seele> rgreening: ah, yeah.. i guess i can do that.. can you install just from an iso file isntead of burning it to CD?
[15:24] <seele> hunger: because clicking VirtualBox is easier than sysasmin black magic
[15:24] <rgreening> hunger: vm isn't actually that much slower, and allows saving states to test and rollback, etc
[15:24] <seele> *sysadmin
[15:24] <rgreening> seele: yes
[15:24] <hunger> seele: Yes, you can ask virtualbox to mount a iso image and to present it as a CD.
[15:25]  * rgreening likes voodoo black magic and black magic chocolates
[15:25] <hunger> rgreening: snapshots are indeed a good reason to prefer VMs:-)
[15:25] <rgreening> :P
[15:26] <hunger> rgreening: Of course you can do the same at least on FS level with a bit of LVM magic for chroots:-)
[15:26] <rgreening> hunger: if you have lots of time to waste
[15:26] <ScottK> But keep in mind you're talking to a usability engineer, not a professional sysadmin.
[15:27]  * rgreening likes quick and simple
[15:27] <hunger> ScottK: Actually most professional sysadmins I know don't know how to do LVM snapshots either:-(
[15:29] <ScottK> rgreening: Would you do me a favor and go through https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sru/+bugs?field.bug_reporter=jr and tag them all verification-done instead of verification needed?
[15:29] <ScottK> rgreening: Since I did the 'works for me' comment, I think someone else should tag them.
[15:29] <ScottK> Once that's done, I'll lean on pitti to copy them to -updates.
[15:30]  * rgreening looks
[15:31]  * seele packs up and heads to breakfast
[15:31] <jjesse-dell9> MM BREAKFAST
[15:31] <jjesse-dell9> sorry for the caps
[15:31] <rgreening> ScottK: you mean update to Fix Committed? in the status?
[15:32] <ScottK> rgreening: No.  Change the tag from verification-needed to verification-done.
[15:32] <rgreening> hmm... I dont see where to change the tag.
[15:32] <ScottK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeaccessibility/+bug/299498/+edit
[15:33] <ScottK> Click where it says Update description/tags right below the description.
[15:33] <rgreening> ah.. now I see
[15:34]  * ScottK notes that he's filed bugs about that being obscure.
[15:34] <rgreening> ScottK: I'll take care of it
[15:34] <rgreening> yes, it is obscure
[15:34] <ScottK> rgreening: Thanks.  Let me know when you're done and I'll chase after pitti.
[15:34]  * rgreening off for food
[15:34] <rgreening> ScottK: np
[15:37]  * Jucato powerpokes Hobbsee, jjesse-dell9, and nixternal >:)
[15:38] <sikor_sxe> hello, anyone knows where to find a kde4 python api description?
[15:38] <Jucato> oh wait, sorry Hobbsee, you shoujld be asleep :P
[15:38] <Riddell> sikor_sxe: api.kde.org
[15:39] <sikor_sxe> Riddell: well, that's the c++ api :/
[15:40] <sikor_sxe> Riddell: ahh
[15:40] <sikor_sxe> found it, thx
[15:56] <sikor_sxe> i have problems connecting a kio::job's signal with a slot in python
[15:56] <sikor_sxe> http://pastebin.com/m1f8f4df1
[15:58] <sikor_sxe> what could be missing
[15:58] <ScottK> sikor_sxe: How about http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/software/pykde/intro
[15:58] <ScottK> See the links on that page.
[15:59] <sikor_sxe> i know the page, it does not cover kde tho
[15:59] <sikor_sxe> kde4
[15:59] <ScottK> Right.  Sorry.  Just KDE3 there.
[16:00]  * jtechidna was at the dentist's office
[16:00]  * Jucato sees clones and waves :)
[16:00] <jtechidna> ScottK: I can't take a look at it for a while, I'm on a Fedora machine atm
[16:01] <jtechidna> Sysinfo for 'lockjaw': Linux 2.6.22.5-76.fc7 running KDE 3.5.7-21.fc7 Fedora, CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.60GHz at 1600 MHz (3190 bogomips), HD: 72/145GB, RAM: 1235/1264MB, 137 proc's, 2.44h up
[17:00] <seele> Nightrose: ping
[17:02] <tyfon> hmm since 8.10 the stuff installed via build-dep is put on the autoremove list
[17:06] <nixternal> Riddell and seele: it has been requested that I let you both know that you need to do an interview...I finished mine, now it is your turn!
[17:07] <seele> Nightrose: hmm?
[17:08] <seele> er..
[17:08] <seele> nixternal: hmm?
[17:08] <Riddell> nixternal: doc team needed in albor
[17:11] <rgreening> seele: my flight is 10PM, and wondering if 7:30 - 7:45 pickup time is appropriate fore schedule super shuttle
[17:12] <seele> rgreening: sure.. fine with me
[17:13] <rgreening> k
[17:14] <seele> is that going to be enough time for you?
[17:25] <rgreening> seele, booked and confirmed for 7-7:15PM Friday.
[17:25] <nixternal> Riddell: on my way over to albor now
[17:25] <Riddell> talk to evan if he's still there
[17:26] <seele> rgreening: kk, sounds good
[17:26] <rgreening> yeah, hes still here
[17:26] <jpds> rgreening: Are you leaving Sunday?
[17:26]  * Riddell spots "Make Rosetta attractive for upstreams", would a lynch mob be un-quakerly?
[17:27]  * seele raises an eyebrow
[17:29] <jtechidna> upstreams want to lynch us for using rosetta ourselves
[17:29] <Riddell> exactly
[17:30] <jtechidna> All we need now is a track of every single KDe developer laughing their asses off
[17:33] <jpds> rgreening: Nevermind, should have read that better.
[17:43] <Nightrose> seele: pong
[17:47] <Nightrose> seele: having dinner now - back in an hour or so
[17:52] <seele> Riddell: talking about font config and theyre asking me questions about what kde does.. dunno if you should be here instead :P
[17:54] <Riddell> seele: kcmshell4  fonts
[17:54] <nixternal> for being Google, their public wireless stinks!
[17:54] <Riddell> that's deliberate
[17:54] <seele> Nightrose: ah.. i was asking if you know about how to fix the kickoff menu in neon it's empty
[17:55] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: mvo is hoping for a Kubuntu person in foundations to talk automatic codec install.
[17:55] <seele> Riddell: uhm..
[17:55] <Riddell> everyone wants me
[17:55]  * seele tries to pay attention
[17:56] <ScottK-laptop> Send rgreening.
[17:58] <apachelogger> kde rev 895766
[17:58] <apachelogger> ubottu: bot!!!
[17:58] <apachelogger> -.-
[17:59] <apachelogger> stdin: the revision stuff is b0rked :(
[18:05] <jtechidna> aha, so that's what the problem with iPod support was
[18:05] <rgreening> ScottK: when I update the tag, should I add a comment?
[18:05] <nixternal> always
[18:06] <rgreening> nixternal: that directed to me?
[18:06] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Make some generic comment about it being verified.
[18:06] <rgreening> kk
[18:06] <ScottK-laptop> Try to make it at least slightly different from mine.
[18:07] <nixternal> rgreening: yes
[18:12] <Hobbsee> !vistalover
[18:12] <Hobbsee> !visternal
[18:12] <Hobbsee> he's back to using KDE, too...
[18:12] <ScottK-laptop> Is his month of purgatory over?
[18:13] <nixternal> I HAVE ALWAYS USED KDE!!!
[18:13] <Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: no, it seems he's violated it.
[18:13] <ScottK-laptop> You only react so strongly because it's true.
[18:13] <nixternal> Hobbsee: you are sitting next to me, talking vista trash, yet you are stickless...I think that is even scarrier since I think you could fit inside of one of my shoes :p
[18:14] <Hobbsee> no, my stick is just hidden....
[18:14] <Hobbsee> !vistalover is <alias> nixternal
[18:14] <nixternal> oh man
[18:14] <Hobbsee> :P
[18:14]  * ScottK-laptop tries.
[18:14] <ScottK-laptop> nixternal.
[18:15] <ScottK-laptop> !nixternal
[18:15]  * ScottK-laptop was hoping she'd aranged it to go off every time his nick was mentioned.
[18:15] <jtechidna> ha
[18:15] <nixternal> crimsun: when I come in to MD/DC in the next month or so, remind me not to let ScottK-laptop know :p
[18:15] <Hobbsee> now there's an idea...
[18:16] <seele> nixternal: youre coming to visit? whoo
[18:16] <seele> nixternal: why the hell are you coming when it's cold?
[18:16] <nixternal> ya, probably spend a few days out east
[18:16] <ScottK-laptop> seele: He's in Chicago, so it's warmer here.
[18:16] <nixternal> hahaha
[18:16] <nixternal> ScottK-laptop: actually we found out DC was colder than Chicago earlier this week
[18:16] <seele> ScottK-laptop: it was warmer there last week :)
[18:16] <nixternal> though we have over a foot of snow now
[18:16] <seele> yeah.. you win
[18:17] <ScottK-laptop> Rain here today.
[18:17] <seele> Riddell: so theyre talking about removing the fontselector defaults and requiring the user to config hinting, etc.
[18:17] <seele> because i guess there is a bug they cant find and they have users complaining about the defaults
[18:18] <seele> there is also a problem with firefox in gnome because gnome uses pango and ff uses fontselector and there is some bug they couldnt find that changes the hinting in firefox
[18:19] <Riddell> what do you mean by fontselector defaults?
[18:19] <nixternal> seele: funny you say that...with my gnome desktop at home, I have to admit, the fonts really suck...I totally love my font control in KDE 4...that is one thing I get the most compliments on at work actually...the KDE 4 fonts looking secksi
[18:19] <apachelogger> uhhh
[18:19] <seele> Riddell: i guess there are some default set for the different types of hinting and stuff?
[18:19] <seele> Riddell: this is why you should have been here :P
[18:19] <jtechidna> Qt4 font hinting is supposed to be broken :P
[18:20] <jtechidna> (and fixed for Qt 4.5 or so)
[18:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: please tell cprov that a "delete all packages" feature would be very appreciated for PPAs, makes loads of sense for updates-testing
[18:20] <tyfon> compared to windows fonts on my laptop, qt is doing excelent ;)
[18:20] <tyfon> i get rainbow effect in windows
[18:20] <apachelogger> <3 rainbow
[18:21] <jtechidna> Qt font hinting is "broken" in that it always uses full hinting no matter what the user has segt
[18:21] <jtechidna> *set
[18:21] <apachelogger> now, why would someone not want font hinting?
[18:21] <apachelogger> hm
[18:22] <Riddell> doesn't work so well for CJK
[18:22]  * apachelogger watches the build queue
[18:22] <jtechidna> some might want medium or slight hinting rather than full hinting
[18:23] <jtechidna> you know how some people are about fonts... :P
[18:23] <jtechidna> (e.g. every linux-trolling mac-fan on digg)
[18:25] <apachelogger> reminds me of that bug report where people claimed font rendering is bad in kpdf/okular because it looks different than it does in other pdf viewers, while it was just using a different font :P
[18:25] <jtechidna> hehe
[18:33] <apachelogger> Nightrose: if my research is correct the neon issue I found yesterday ought to fix about every issue I can think of
[18:33] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[18:33] <apachelogger> essentially it makes KDE bug free ;-)
[18:33] <apachelogger> aloha _Groo_
[18:34] <_Groo_> heya apachelogger
[18:35] <_Groo_> apachelogger: did you see my private msgs?
[18:36]  * apachelogger thinks we should add a bzr branch for koffice as well
[18:37] <Nightrose> apachelogger: sweet
[18:37]  * Nightrose hands apachelogger a cookie
[18:38] <Nightrose> seele: if you still have the problem i can look for the fix for you
[18:41] <ScottK-laptop> Do we have a KDE4 scanning application in Main?
[18:41] <ScottK-laptop> It seems like that ought to be supported.
[18:41] <Riddell> skanlite I think it the only one
[18:41] <Riddell> I havn't tried it and it's not in main
[18:41] <ScottK-laptop> That's Universe.  I just tried it and it works in Intrepid.
[18:42] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: I think it ought to be in Main then.
[18:42] <seele> Nightrose: i didn't know what to do to fix it so i havent done anything :)
[18:45] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: remind us during the packaging session :)
[18:45] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: I won't be around then.
[18:45] <Riddell> or add to agenda on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs
[18:45] <ScottK-laptop> I'll add it.
[18:47] <apachelogger> adding it to main depends on it's quality
[18:47] <apachelogger> I understand that it is a fairly young application, so I wouldn't be too sure it messures up to kooka's bugs yet ;-)
[18:47] <ScottK-laptop> It works.
[18:47] <ScottK-laptop> At least for me.
[18:47] <apachelogger> oh, then it needs to go main
[18:48] <ScottK-laptop> I had to scan today for the first time since I upgraded to Intrepid and it automagically found my scanner on the network and everything.
[18:48] <ScottK-laptop> All I had to do was click the scan button.
[18:48] <Nightrose> seele: http://groups.google.com/group/amarok-neon/browse_thread/thread/52aacf37ef7b05b8
[18:49] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: a lot better than kooka then
[18:49] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: Added.
[18:49] <apachelogger> *than even
[18:49]  * apachelogger restarts X for new kde-nightly
[18:49] <ScottK-laptop> I may have the only scanner in the world it works with, but I'm happy.
[19:03] <seele> Nightrose: looks like that did something.  cool and thanks
[19:04] <Nightrose> :) yw
[19:06] <apachelogger> so
[19:06] <apachelogger> who got kde-nightly?
[19:06] <Riddell> seele did
[19:07] <seele> hmm?
[19:07] <apachelogger> seele: does your dolphin menubar say "No text"?
[19:08] <seele> yep
[19:11] <apachelogger> seele: please upgrade to latest revision and check whether it fixes this issue
[19:12] <apachelogger> closing all dolphins and reopening them should be enough
[19:16] <rgreening> seele: were you coming to the encrypt home dir session?
[19:18] <seele> rgreening: i'm required in a printing session
[19:18] <rgreening> kk. I'll make sure we are covered herw
[19:18] <rgreening> s/herw/here
[19:19] <jjesse> seele: how's the disscussions today?
[19:22] <Riddell> jjesse: docs team needed for ubiquity slideshow
[19:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: new qzion up http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=qzion
[19:22] <Riddell> also qedje if you can http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=qedje
[19:22] <jjesse> Riddell: i know evan pinged me bout being there this morning and i missed it, i will send him an email bout it
[19:22] <Riddell> nixternal might have turned up I'm not sure
[19:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: I guess you pbuilt qzion?
[19:23] <jjesse> i'll ping evan bout it
[19:23]  * apachelogger is building kde4libs right now
[19:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes
[19:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: advocated
[19:24] <Riddell> yay!
[19:24] <apachelogger> *reviewing qedje*
[19:24] <jjesse> Riddell do you hae link to acadmey for 2009?
[19:25] <Riddell> jjesse: http://www.grancanariadesktopsummit.org/index.php/Main_Page
[19:25] <jjesse> thanks
[19:27] <nixternal> Riddell and jjesse: I turned up and talked to evand
[19:27] <jjesse> nixternal: cool so you understand what is going on and what the docs team neesd to do?
[19:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=qedje
[19:29] <nixternal> jjesse: ya, it is the same thing we have talked about for like the past 2 years concerning ubiquity
[19:29] <nixternal> my stuff is up on the screen, so I am going to close this session out for the time being...bbiaf
[19:29] <jjesse> awesome :)
[19:30] <Riddell> apachelogger: libqedje-dev should probably depend on libeet-dev too
[19:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: didn't look at the source, but probably :)
[19:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: I added an advocation, so you can upload straight to ubuntu
[19:31]  * apachelogger continues documenting changes to neon so he can start merging
[19:31] <jjesse> nixternal: we forgot to work on getting extended desktop on my mini 9, we need to do some of that magic next week or something like that
[19:32] <seele> jjesse: are you home already?
[19:32] <seele> or sitting at the airport?
[19:32] <seele> oh, noon right?
[19:34] <jjesse> sitting at iarport
[19:34] <jjesse> nothing here to do
[19:34] <jjesse> im in a relly crappy part of the airport, there is one restraunt and nothing else
[19:38] <jjesse> ok time to start boarding, talk to you later nixternal, Riddell and seele
[19:38] <Riddell> ciao
[19:54] <ScottK-laptop> Who wants to learn about writing MIR?
[19:57] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: How's the 4.1.3 bug tagging going?
[20:15] <Riddell> MIRs needed for google-gears, libmsn, qzion and qedje
[20:16] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: did you have something to add to that?
[20:16] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: skanlite
[20:16] <Riddell> oh aye
[20:19] <Riddell> ryanakca and apachelogger still have merges outstanding
[20:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: merges?
[20:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
[20:22] <apachelogger> oh dear
[20:23] <apachelogger> all of them require testing in KDE 4 as well
[20:23]  * apachelogger shudders
[20:26] <nixternal> anything requiring testing makes me shudder
[20:27] <nixternal> haha, I love you Konversation people!!! <   Ramblurr!n=rmblr@amarok/developer/Ramblurr [SendQ exceeded]
[20:27]  * Ramblurr uses quassel
[20:33] <seele> Riddell: we should talk to the platform people and see if we can get the DISTRIB_ID to Kubuntu (says tedg)
[20:36] <Riddell> seele: never heard of it, do you know who to talk to specifically?
[20:40] <nixternal> Ramblurr: then Quassel has the same issue with Konversation...which I patched 2 years ago, but it got tossed out
[20:40] <Ramblurr> nixternal: what is the issue?
[20:41] <nixternal> I can't remember anymore...it has been a while since I last played with it
[20:41] <nixternal> it always happened when you would join multiple channels that had a lot of people
[20:41] <nixternal> oh I remember now why it was happening
[20:42] <nixternal> everytime you joined a channel, the client would send an auto whois to the channel
[20:42] <nixternal> if you that occurred on multiple channels which had a lot of people, the autowhois would cause a sendq flood
[20:43] <nixternal> iirc, I kind of utilized the way that Irssi was controlling their autowhois stuff and incorporated it...but one of the konvi devs wasn't game
[20:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[20:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: le pong
[20:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: where are you ? I've been searching for you all for 25 minutes :)
[20:58] <Riddell> Dia
[20:58] <Tonio_> hum oki
[20:59] <Tonio_> well time to eat now, so I'll probably wait for you outside :)
[20:59] <Riddell> ok
[20:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was at the plymouth thing..... really impressive
[21:02] <rgreening> ScottK: I'm done updating the SRU bugs
[21:06] <seele> Riddell: ted gold
[21:28] <cbr> the 4.2 beta1 has a bug imo
[21:28] <cbr> kwin goes 80% cpu
[21:48] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[21:48] <_Groo_> can anyone help me with sbuilder?
[21:49] <_Groo_> basically i want to know how to hook the pbuilder kubuntu hooks into sbuild
[21:50] <_Groo_> apachelogger: are you there? :)
[21:55] <LaserJock> anybody alive in here? :-)
[21:56] <ScottK> Sure
[21:56] <LaserJock> sorry, got distracted
[21:57] <LaserJock> I'm wondering if there are any Kubuntu people who are intersted in Education
[21:57] <LaserJock> or could become interested :-)
[21:59] <_Groo_> im alive
[22:00] <_Groo_> anyone here is using sbuild instead of pbuild?
[22:00] <LaserJock> _Groo_: I do
[22:01] <_Groo_> Hi LaserJock
[22:01] <_Groo_> LaserJock: can you explain to me how do i enable the pbuilder hooks into sbuild?
[22:02] <_Groo_> LaserJock: apachelogger told me to download from the bzr branch so i can have the missingfiles hook
[22:03] <LaserJock> _Groo_: hmm, I'm not much help there, I don't use pbuilder or sbuild hooks :/
[22:04] <_Groo_> LaserJock: how do you do to make sure you dont have missing files?
[22:05] <LaserJock> _Groo_: I'm not sure what you mean?
[22:06] <_Groo_> LaserJock: when you make a package, for instance, a new koffice2 beta 4 using the diff from beta3, how do you make sure the new package doesnt miss any files?
[22:07] <LaserJock> _Groo_: well, I check it
[22:07] <_Groo_> LaserJock: how do you check it?
[22:07] <LaserJock> I'd run dpkg -c on the .debs and compare that with the old version
[22:08] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger, rgreening, Riddell: pitti just said he'd copy 4.1.3 to intrepid-updates shortly ....
[22:08] <LaserJock> I don't run into that case all that often so I don't bother automating it
[22:09] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: thanks, I asked him earlier in the week too so I guess we just keep poking until it happens
[22:09] <_Groo_> LaserJock: but if the files are missing in the new debs (because they are new and the diff didnt contemplate them), how a simple comparison would help?
[22:09] <rgreening> YAY
[22:09] <ScottK> Did he actually say he'd do it before?
[22:10] <LaserJock> _Groo_: I would just have to figure out what *should* be there then
[22:10] <LaserJock> _Groo_: if you need to do that much I'd suggest getting ahold of apachelogger
[22:10] <LaserJock> as I don't have much help for you :-)
[22:10] <rgreening> I saw him a few minutes ago, he said "hey, your the guy with all the KDE updates... so I guess changing the status got his attention :)
[22:11] <rgreening> ScottK ^
[22:11] <_Groo_> LaserJock: well thats what the pbuild missingfiles hook is suposed to do.. but since i use dbuild i dont know how to do it
[22:11] <ScottK> ;-)
[22:12] <LaserJock> _Groo_: I'd look online and read about sbuild hooks, I know I've seen some helpful stuff before
[22:12] <_Groo_> LaserJock: ok, thanks
[22:13]  * apachelogger just fell asleep
[22:13] <apachelogger> way too awful
[22:13] <apachelogger> _Groo_: make -f debian/rules list-missing
[22:14] <apachelogger> the list-missing hook is meant to streamline the build process, but since you debuild anyway you can as well check for not installed files outside the chroot
[22:14] <_Groo_> ok, so i make the build dir, run a debuild -S, then a schroot file.dsc and finally a make -f debian/rules list-missing?
[22:14] <LaserJock> so when is 4.2 set to be released?
[22:15] <_Groo_> and if it finds any missing files, i change the debian/.install and do all over?
[22:15] <apachelogger> run debuild with -nc
[22:16] <apachelogger> that way it will not have to rebuild the whole stuff
[22:18] <_Groo_> apachelogger: yes i know, but im going to run schroot only in the "final" round?
[22:18] <apachelogger> that is how I would do it
[22:19] <apachelogger> to ensure dependencies are correct and stuff
[22:44] <ScottK> LaserJock: http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.2_Release_Schedule
[22:46] <Hobbsee> so, i've got a kde4 cd now.
[22:48] <stdin> kde rev 895766
[22:48] <stdin> apachelogger: it wasn't loaded for some reason
[22:50] <nixternal> Hobbsee: you mean you aren't using Vista?
[22:53] <LaserJock> ScottK: so like 1.5 months left. wow, it should really rock. I thought Beta 1 look pretty ready to go
[22:53] <Hobbsee> nixternal: no, i don't use vista.  i've never had the misfortune of using vista.
[22:54] <Hobbsee> where's my free money?
[22:56] <ScottK> I think the best thing about Vista is that once friends/family upgrade, I can't provide tech support anymore.
[22:58] <LaserJock> :-)
[22:58] <nixternal> lol, I do the same ScottK
[22:58] <nixternal> whoa, it is Mr. Jordan himself!
[22:59]  * LaserJock bows
[22:59] <nixternal> LaserJock: have you listened to any of the community tracks?
[22:59] <LaserJock> little bit, not today though, busy gettin' graduated
[22:59] <LaserJock> I did some 'denting yesterday
[23:01] <nixternal> bbiaf...I will tell you what I covered...you will love it dude
[23:01] <LaserJock> :-)