/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/12/11/#upstart.txt

keesjI have about the same problem as kysucix. I need to control system scripts08:56
keesjand need to do stuff initctl can do08:56
keesjthe pain is that libnih and the upstart libs are gpl so I can not even write my own initctl using the nih libs08:56
keesjin ubuntu 8.10 there is not even a libnih08:57
Keybukwhy can't you write your own initctl?09:13
Keybukyou can link to gpl libraries from gpl applications just fine09:15
keesjI am not writing a gpl app09:21
keesjmaking the libs lgpl would really help 09:21
Keybuk*shrug*09:22
Keybukthen I have no interest in helping you09:22
Keybukif you do not want to contribute your source code09:22
Keybukthen don't touch mine09:22
Keybukthe libraries are GPL for a reason09:22
keesjdont' start the lame gpl story. If I am on this channel its because my company tries to use upstart. 09:24
keesjand it 's not because I am writing closed code that I can not help people09:24
keesjjust like I did no this channel many times09:24
Keybukyou can write as much closed code as you like09:25
Keybukyou just can't link to my code09:25
KeybukI am happy that inconveniences you09:25
KeybukI spent a lot of time and effort on my code09:26
keesjWell you should not.09:26
Keybukand its open for all to use09:26
Keybukit's frankly insulting that you want to benefit from it commerically without opening your code in return09:27
keesjI spend a lot of time on upstart and having ideas. if you can't value that.  or don't value other good your are probably thinking to much of open-source as a software only thing09:28
KeybukI'm not talking about having ideas, or helping out here09:28
Keybukthat's more than welcome09:28
keesjit about people. I am really shocked that you don't value whay I do09:28
KeybukI'm only talking about you asking me to lgpl the libraries09:28
Keybukwhich is only a software thing09:28
Keybukmy code is open09:30
keesjI am asking you to understand that upstart like any ohter open-source thing need people can companies behind it. and I represent such a company.09:30
Keybukand free for you to modify, derive and link as you see fit09:30
Keybuk*provided* that you open yours in return09:30
Keybukif your company isn't willing to open its code, then I don't see that as backing upstart's code development09:32
Keybukobviously you can help in other ways09:32
keesjthat why lgpl exist .I did not have much needs to modify upstart. it works quite well out of the box (the 0.3.* series)09:32
Keybukbut I'm not interested in a company making commercial derivatives or taking private benefit from my code09:33
keesjI can only help and am only interested in upstart because we want to use it. that is WHY is am here. no matter what I do with it. and apparently you have no way of showing that you value that in code :P09:34
KeybukI only value code I have the same rights to as code you clearly value09:35
Keybuk(or more rights to :p)09:35
Keybukcode that I'm not allowed to see is inherently uninteresting09:35
Keybukcode that improves my work, that I'm not allowed to see, is ... well, insert rude words here09:35
keesjthe result of this disc doesn't really matter (almoost flame stuff).09:36
KeybukI don't see this as a flame09:37
keesjI did not modify your code. but I want to listen to upstart events from my closed system and that is apparenly aksing to much09:37
Keybukyes, your closed system benefits from, and is improved by, upstart09:38
Keybukbut we, in return, can't benefit from and be improved by your system09:38
Keybukbecause it's closed09:38
Keybukthis is unfair09:38
keesjthat part is unfair yes. but that is not the whole story09:39
Keybukas far as the code and licence goes, that is the *entire* story09:39
keesjyou one yout hand will get "upstart is used in blabla". Me who at least tried to help in thinkgs about upstart. me helpin people on irc. and somebody else using your system and giving feedback09:40
Keybukhonestly, and I'm sorry if this sounds conceited, but:09:41
Keybukbetween Ubuntu, Fedora and RHEL; I have probably 20-25 million users of Upstart09:41
Keybukthat's such a large level, I could never possibly hope to receive all the feedback09:41
Keybukso additional users are nice, but not something I really seek09:42
Keybukmy goal is to have it adopted by the major Linux distributions09:42
Keybukand that's really the end of my goal09:42
keesjwhat I see is 3 user cases , 1 coder and a few developers09:43
Keybukit's nice to hear about people trying to use it for other things (hi, Cisco!) but they're so far off my radar, it's not something I worry about09:43
keesjit an enrightment09:43
Keybukyeah09:44
Keybukthat's 2 use cases too many ;)09:44
keesjWell I am in the embedded PND world09:45
KeybukPost Natal Depression?09:45
Keybuk(that's the only expansion of that tla I know)09:45
keesjPortable navigation devices09:46
KeybukGPS units?09:46
keesjI wonder what upstart version maemo will be using...09:47
keesjyes GPS09:47
Keybukkeesj: I don't know, they've never even been in touch to say that they would be using it09:48
KeybukI found out because someone showed me a slide from a presentation09:48
KeybukI guess bugs or patches will land in due course09:48
Keybuk(or it works perfectly, which I'd be surprised about, because I'm pretty sure our arm build threw a nut)09:48
keesjarm builds work just fine09:49
keesjI did not check on ubuntu mobile lately09:49
KeybukBAD: wrong content in file 0x2a0401e0 (output), expected 'foo [#1000] (start) waiting09:50
Keybuk' got 'test: foo [#1000] main process killed by SEGV signal09:50
Keybuk'09:50
Keybukat tests/test_initctl.c:874 (test_start_action).09:50
Keybuk/bin/sh: line 4:  9780 Aborted                 ${dir}$tst09:50
KeybukFAIL: test_initctl09:50
Keybukwe're still waiting for porting boxes, so haven't had a chance to look at it yet09:51
Keybuk\o/ for test suites09:51
Keybukof course, it should be noted that you communicate with Upstart 0.5.0 onwards through D-Bus09:54
Keybukso you don't need the library to link to talk to it09:55
Keybukthe D-Bus library licence is more liberal than the GPL09:55
keesjhttp://www.paste-it.net/public/u31bbbc/09:57
keesjthis is what the output of initctl list looks like under qemu-arm09:58
keesj(0.5) that is , I was under the impression that this was just a bug09:59
keesjbut apparently you are saying that initctl list (or status) looks nicer under x86?09:59
keesjor is tat 0.3.910:00
Keybukthe _5f bit?10:00
Keybukthat's a bug10:00
keesja known one?10:01
Keybukyeah10:02
Keybukcasey just outputs bits of dbus object paths there10:02
Keybukand doesn't convert them back into names10:02
Keybuk(which, in all fairness, is because I didn't add the properties to the job objects)10:02
Keybukright bed10:06
keesj:P10:06
fbondHi.  When entering runlevel 2, an event is emitted.  Is an event emitted after the init scripts for that runlevel have finished executing?20:37
fbondI guess I can use "start on started rc2"?20:49
nottingand then stopped20:58
fbondnotting: Right, "stop on stopped rc2".21:02
fbondOr maybe "stop on stopping rc2" would be better...21:02
fbondIs there an upstart manual?21:02
=== Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk

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