| sadmac2 | ion_: ping | 16:57 |
|---|---|---|
| ion_ | sadmac: pong | 17:04 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: I just pushed a new version of the state machine | 17:05 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: it has some minor behavioral tweaks, and an example file with a real world demo of sorts | 17:06 |
| sadmac2 | (just a small example of drive mounting. designed to be played with more than just run) | 17:06 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: If you want to look at it, its a solution to your infamous mounting scenario | 17:07 |
| Keybuk | pushed? | 17:09 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: git://fedorapeople.org/~sadmac/upstate.git | 17:09 |
| Keybuk | do you have a description of what it does? | 17:09 |
| Keybuk | or do I have to learn ruby? | 17:10 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: that mailing list post I made still describes the general idea. | 17:10 |
| Keybuk | I didn't really understand that :p | 17:10 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: well shit :D | 17:12 |
| Keybuk | you need to explain things better for people who can't read your mind :p | 17:12 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: its not a matter of mind reading. its a matter of having an unhealthy addiction to category theory ;) | 17:13 |
| Keybuk | you're the only person on the planet with that :p | 17:13 |
| sadmac2 | the only one that universities let out of their math department basement | 17:13 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: well, you have states | 17:14 |
| Keybuk | those kind of people never tend to leave university | 17:14 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: states are 1) a name, 2) a series of parameters in the name=value format | 17:14 |
| sadmac2 | true | 17:14 |
| Keybuk | can you post to the ML? | 17:14 |
| Keybuk | I'm doing other things right now, and don't log IRC | 17:15 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: good point | 17:15 |
| Keybuk | (other things including a kernel patch that will make my world truly made of awesome, and solve one of my big upstart problems - which of course means it'll be rejected, but hey :p) | 17:15 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: what patch? | 17:17 |
| Keybuk | 'tis a secret until it goes on lkml | 17:18 |
| sadmac2 | hmm | 17:19 |
| sadmac2 | we just tried waitfd, so.... | 17:19 |
| sadmac2 | I'm guessing its that ring buffer dealie | 17:19 |
| ion_ | sadmac: Alright, the example works. | 17:30 |
| ion_ | Now if i only understood it. :-) | 17:31 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: well, the first 3 lines create states | 17:32 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: arguments are: | 17:32 |
| sadmac2 | name | 17:32 |
| sadmac2 | list of events that trigger it | 17:33 |
| sadmac2 | list of dependencies | 17:33 |
| sadmac2 | list of parameters that have to come from something other than dependencies (the event causing the state to come up, or the user if the user is starting it) | 17:33 |
| sadmac2 | that list of parameters can be like [a, b, c] or it can have little sub groups like [a, [b,c], c] | 17:34 |
| sadmac2 | the sub group means "at least one of these" | 17:34 |
| sadmac2 | Event::Epsilon is an event that happens any time it might cause something. So saying a state comes up on Event::Epsilon basically means it comes up whenever it can | 17:35 |
| sadmac2 | Event.new takes 2 arguments, a name of the event, and arguments | 17:36 |
| sadmac2 | for events that we're using for comparison, the arguments can have regex values | 17:36 |
| sadmac2 | so if the state starts on Event.new("Can_Mount", {:mount_str => /.*/}) it means the Can_Mount event will start it provided it has a mount_str argument, and that argument can have any value | 17:37 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: with me? | 17:37 |
| ion_ | Yeah, i think :-) | 17:38 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: try adding and removing stuffs from the events list to make more drives | 17:39 |
| ion_ | I’m not sure i understand the output. | 17:44 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: red states are down, green states are up | 17:45 |
| sadmac2 | Firefox's spell check is british | 18:15 |
| sadmac2 | colors->colours | 18:15 |
| sadmac2 | friggin u | 18:15 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: has it all become wonderously clear now? | 18:16 |
| ion_ | Sorry, no. :-) | 18:20 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: anything I can do to help... | 18:23 |
| sadmac2 | at least until I hit lunch in 5mins :D | 18:23 |
| Keybuk | sadmac2: how does this solve mounting? | 18:32 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: the example demonstrates it | 19:17 |
| Keybuk | sadmac2: I have to install ruby then? | 21:21 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: ah, don't have it? | 21:50 |
| * sadmac2 notices a glitch in the example | 21:53 | |
| sadmac2 | pushed fix | 21:54 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: in the new state machine, you have a state for each fstab line, and a state for each device which udev notes to be present, and a mounted state that depends on those two | 21:55 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: and the parameters are properly collated depending on which are available | 21:55 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: the devicekit_hd state has blkdev, uid, and name properties (or whatever parameters you want to mount on) | 21:57 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: and the fstab state has one or more of those 3 | 21:57 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: the mount state will only take a given pair of them as dependencies if their like-named arguments agree | 21:57 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk, ion_: http://screwyouenterpriseedition.blogspot.com/2008/12/new-upstart-state-machine.html | 22:00 |
| sadmac2 | part 1 of many | 22:00 |
| suihkulokki | curious name for blog =) | 22:06 |
| ion_ | sadmac: Thanks, will read. | 22:08 |
| sadmac2 | suihkulokki: I like it | 22:09 |
| ion_ | sadmac: Thanks for using red and green, which are hard to tell apart for some of us. :-P | 22:10 |
| ion_ | sadmac: I suggest making the ‘up’ ones bold. | 22:15 |
| sadmac2 | ion_: not a bad idea. that green doesn't read too well. | 22:16 |
| suihkulokki | hmm. so say, if we'd have a state "offline()" or more precisely "rfkill()" | 22:19 |
| suihkulokki | in what case would the state be up or down ? | 22:19 |
| sadmac2 | suihkulokki: we haven't gotten that far yet :) | 22:21 |
| sadmac2 | suihkulokki: the important thing to understand for that part is that they can be up or down, and that this doesn't effect their equivalence relation. | 22:22 |
| sadmac2 | s/relation/class/ | 22:22 |
| * sadmac2 wonders if anyone would have called him on that | 22:22 | |
| Keybuk | ok, so a state has a name, some parameters, and is either up or down | 22:40 |
| Keybuk | I didn't understand the "mathy idea" | 22:41 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: ok, so there are only a certain number of valid values for name | 22:42 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: on a given system, you'll have dbus, gnome-session, etc. | 22:42 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: hypothetically, though, there's infinite possibilities for the parameters | 22:42 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: and a state exists for every one | 22:43 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: the point is, we don't talk about whether a state "exists" or not in this paradigm. It always exists. period. | 22:43 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: we talk about whether its running. | 22:43 |
| Keybuk | states are jobs | 22:49 |
| Keybuk | jobs have any environment | 22:49 |
| Keybuk | there's no difference between a job not existing and not running | 22:49 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: that's what allows us to get away with it :) | 22:50 |
| Keybuk | ? | 22:50 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: the principle is there to make it easier to talk about the workings of the mechanism | 22:50 |
| Keybuk | so what I just described matches what you were describing? | 22:50 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: in a sense. it'd be more accurate to say that what you described was an implementation detail. Like the preface said, I'm just describing behavior. | 22:51 |
| * Keybuk gives up | 22:51 | |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: you might be thinking too concretely. There's really no such things as jobs for this model :) | 22:53 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: this is something you put information into, and you get out a list of things that should be running | 22:54 |
| sadmac2 | and even that depends on you interpeting it that way. | 22:54 |
| Keybuk | so there's no point me reading anything you write? | 22:55 |
| Keybuk | fair enough | 22:55 |
| * Keybuk goes | 22:55 | |
| ion_ | Now, now | 22:56 |
| Keybuk | seriously | 22:57 |
| Keybuk | we're trying to write a replacement init daemon that's easy for sysadmins to use | 22:58 |
| Keybuk | the O'Reilly book on Upstart does not need to have "all this book assumes is that you have several PhDs in advanced mathematics and number theory" in the introduction | 22:58 |
| Keybuk | a sysadmin or distro maintainer will be thinking in terms of jobs | 23:02 |
| Keybuk | (or at least services and tasks) | 23:02 |
| Keybuk | so their requirements, dependencies, etc. need to be explained in that language too | 23:02 |
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