[14:40] <_MMA_> Nam. No posts to the ML in 5 days.
[14:40] <_MMA_> *Man
[16:56] <thorwil> http://the-space-station.com/2008/12/15/ubuntu-logo-similarity-contest
[19:03] <manzur> hello
[19:03] <manzur> check this
[19:03] <manzur> http://ebupof.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-website-84984292
[19:03] <manzur> http://same-gfx.deviantart.com/art/screenflow-portfolio-81710478
[19:03] <manzur> u'll love this
[19:03] <manzur> we need this for ubuntu
[19:03] <manzur> artwork
[19:03] <manzur> web site
[19:04] <thorwil> my personal opinion is 2 times no. i don't love it and don't think "we" need it
[19:04] <manzur> what do ya think people
[19:04] <manzur> ?
[19:07] <manzur> why
[19:07] <manzur> i mean this is ubuntu artwork channel
[19:07] <manzur> are you art designers
[19:07] <manzur> ?
[19:07] <knome> yes and people can disagree about things in here as well.
[19:08] <thorwil> manzur: the heron is release specific ... don't even know why it's there, showing through only so slightly
[19:08] <thorwil> manzur: my main issue is that it's all brown in brown. suffocating
[19:08] <manzur> thorwil: it does not have to be like this
[19:08] <manzur> but ubuntu web site
[19:09] <manzur> cuold be more intelligent
[19:09] <manzur> i mean
[19:09] <knome> it is getting a redesign
[19:09] <manzur> what do we get nowadays
[19:09] <manzur> a simple web site
[19:09] <manzur> with pictures and links
[19:09] <thorwil> simple is good
[19:09] <knome> have you heard of the KISS ideology?
[19:09] <manzur> no
[19:09] <knome> "keep it simple stupid"
[19:09] <lianimator> keep it simple stupid..
[19:10] <knome> works for most occasions
[19:10] <knome> if not all
[19:10] <manzur> but, excuse me
[19:10] <manzur> it looks like a web site design by a kid
[19:10] <manzur> this is what i mean
[19:10] <manzur> i mean ubuntu must have professional designers
[19:10] <knome> if we like it...
[19:11] <thorwil> manzur: i don't think the current ubuntu website design is good. but i think it's better than that mockup
[19:12] <manzur> thorwil: that's why i said it ddoes not have to be like so
[19:12] <manzur> i mean check this
[19:12] <manzur> https://usshop.ubuntu.com/category.php?catid=3
[19:12] <manzur> ubuntu cd/dvd covers
[19:12] <manzur> they look terrible
[19:12] <manzur> for me
[19:12] <manzur> i mean
[19:12] <manzur> what do ya think
[19:12] <manzur> ?
[19:12] <thorwil> manzur: note that there is at most a single person in this channel who might get to have something to do with the official web-design
[19:13] <manzur> thorwil: yes, and excuse me if i am rude
[19:13] <manzur> really
[19:13] <thorwil> manzur: yes, terrible
[19:13] <manzur> i just have to say it
[19:13] <manzur> what for?
[19:13] <thorwil> manzur: no worries
[19:13] <manzur> to be better
[19:13] <thorwil> manzur: you are operating under some wrong assumptions
[19:13] <manzur> there are a lot of people out there
[19:14] <manzur> who are designres
[19:14] <manzur> *
[19:14] <manzur> and they see how pretty ubuntu looks
[19:14] <manzur> to use it
[19:14] <manzur> so we got to be the best as os
[19:14] <manzur> and design
[19:15] <manzur> i mean i like suse design
[19:15] <manzur> so not u
[19:15] <manzur> ?
[19:15] <manzur> it looks pro
[19:15] <manzur> and simple
[19:15] <manzur> "simple"
[19:15] <manzur> but good
[19:15] <manzur> and pro
[19:15] <knome> manzur, not all of us are in a situation that we could do the webdesign and just get it uploaded to the main site
[19:15] <thorwil> manzur: what are you trying to achieve here and who do you think you are talking to right now?
[19:15] <manzur> thorwil: both of u
[19:16] <manzur> knome: i know that
[19:16] <manzur> but
[19:16] <thorwil> knome: in fact nobody here is, with only 1 person where i could see doubt
[19:16] <manzur> we should post an idea
[19:16] <manzur> in brainstorm
[19:16] <knome> manzur, you're welcome.
[19:16] <manzur> can u help me?
[19:16] <manzur> are u agree
[19:16] <manzur> ?
[19:16] <manzur> do u agree
[19:16] <manzur> ?
[19:16] <manzur> *
[19:18] <thorwil> manzur: canonical recently hired a strategical lead of design. so you can expect things to change and the web presence might be the first
[19:19] <manzur> thorwil: how do u know that
[19:19] <manzur> ?
[19:19] <manzur> where can i find that new
[19:19] <manzur> ?
[19:19] <thorwil> right now trying to push for changes from outside of canonical is a waste of time
[19:20] <thorwil> manzur: there was a job posting. and a blog post from mark shuttleworth. there is an video interview with the new guy
[19:20] <thorwil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcFCVHJFNTU&feature=channel_page
[19:21] <thorwil> manzur: btw, doing research is an important, but often overlooked part of doing design ;)
[19:29] <manzur> excuse me i was at lunch
[19:29] <manzur> jajaja
[19:31] <manzur> thorwil: can u tell me what he says
[19:31] <manzur> ?
[19:31] <thorwil> no
[19:32] <manzur> i mean i am not from usa, i am from colombia
[19:32] <manzur> i am not that good in english
[20:12] <_MMA_> Because only the US has English as it's national language. :P
[20:12] <_MMA_> luisbg: Ping
[20:15] <thorwil> _MMA_: i though some people would be delighted if the US had English as national language? :)
[20:16] <_MMA_> luisbg: Can you summarize Julian's video in Spanish for manzur? ¿por favor? (if you're around)
[20:19] <_MMA_> thorwil: That was sarcasm if you didn't get it. :)
[20:38] <thorwil> hi dilomo
[20:38] <dilomo> hi :) how are you
[20:38] <thorwil> alright and you?
[20:39] <dilomo> Fine, I've been very busy these days with work
[20:39] <dilomo> I just read your email on the list and I agree with you
[20:39] <thorwil> how boring :)
[20:40] <dilomo> :) I made the necessary changes to the tabs
[20:40] <dilomo> btw do you know a program that uses
[20:40] <dilomo> tabs aligned to the left or right?
[20:41] <thorwil> dilomo: ardour uses tabs on the right. but it uses a custom theme
[20:41] <dilomo> ok I'll mis them then (will remain the old style from 0.6.2)
[20:42] <thorwil> i guess vertical tabs automatically cause a technical impression such that any GTK app would have to fear to turn into a Qt/KDE one
[20:42] <dilomo> :D good argument
[20:44] <dilomo> How do you find the connection between menubar and toolbars on this picture:
[20:44] <dilomo> http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1229460199.png
[20:45] <thorwil>  connection between menubar and toolbars?
[20:45] <dilomo> hint: I have added small highlight above the dark line
[20:45] <dilomo> but I'm not sure if it's a good idea
[20:46] <thorwil> highlight above the dark line?
[20:46] <thorwil> maybe my eyes are tired :/
[20:47] <dilomo> it is veeery subtle
[20:47] <dilomo> it represent AO from the light contents below
[20:47] <thorwil> dilomo: well, i can say that the title/menu bar now appears to be on the same level as the rest of the window
[20:48] <thorwil> dilomo: can you do something about the very narrow gap between the active chat tab and the menubar? it should be zero or larger, i'd say
[20:49] <dilomo> I can but it looks as dropped shadow from the menubar
[20:50] <dilomo> if I make it larger then the space for text will be small
[20:51] <dilomo> I think that tabs should not be use like they are in pidgin
[20:51] <dilomo> everywhere else there is a lot of space for them
[20:52] <thorwil> only briefly tried to use pidgin for irc. then went back to xchat
[20:53] <dilomo> I wil try it too
[20:54] <dilomo> thorwil: do you have any ideas what should be the material of the buttons in metacity
[20:54] <dilomo> I have two suggestions:
[20:54] <dilomo> - Glossy black plastic
[20:54] <dilomo> - Metal (like mac)
[20:55] <thorwil> dilomo: Acrylnitril-Butadien-Styrol
[20:55] <thorwil> ;)
[20:56] <dilomo> what is this :)
[20:57] <dilomo> a joke, I was pretty good at Chemistry at Highschool
[20:57] <thorwil> dilomo: ABS is a thermoplast often used for encasings
[20:57] <thorwil> actually i should say, Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene
[20:57] <thorwil> -styrol was the german version
[20:58] <thorwil> dilomo: it's quite shock-proof and can be colored easily
[20:59] <dilomo> :D
[20:59] <dilomo> We have a totally different name fo this in my country
[21:00] <thorwil> dilomo: i think you should consider the emotional side, the impression the buttons should give the user
[21:00] <dilomo> so my suggestion is smth like this ABS coloured inblack
[21:01] <dilomo> these buttons are the most difficult part of all
[21:01] <dilomo> in several major releases I can't find the proper shape and color
[21:01] <thorwil> dilomo: both glossy plastic and metal looks are a bit overused and not that great an idea if you imagine them as real
[21:03] <dilomo> so what do you suggest? Carbon
[21:03] <_MMA_> NO!
[21:03] <_MMA_>  :)
[21:04] <thorwil> http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11058131/Egyptian_Hand_Made_Ceramic_Dinner_Set.jpg
[21:04] <dilomo> thorwil: wow
[21:05] <_MMA_> Niiiiiiice colors there.
[21:06] <thorwil> http://www.conranusa.com/images/default/us/catalogue/large/22318.jpg
[21:07] <dilomo> red?! or porcelain
[21:07] <thorwil> dilomo: it's the surface, not the color i'm after
[21:07] <dilomo> ok I got it
[21:08] <thorwil> http://www.highpointpigeonsupplies.com/images/clay_iww9.jpg
[21:08] <_MMA_> Man. I think that would be tricky.
[21:08] <dilomo> but this theme looks synthetic or made of some kind of mate plastic and on top of all
[21:08] <dilomo> ceramic buttons
[21:08] <thorwil> dilomo: of course, you should extend that to the title/menu bar, then
[21:09] <thorwil> http://www.naturalgems.de/images/edelstein_jade_oval.jpg
[21:09] <thorwil> http://www.hpwt.de/Mineralien/Jade.jpg
[21:09] <dilomo> the last ones is interesting
[21:10] <thorwil> dilomo: hmm, good point. i got carried away by my thoughts of what ubuntu should mean and what kind of materials and surfaces are warm, inviting, classy
[21:11] <dilomo> I was thinking of making the active buttons glassy and the inactive mate
[21:11] <dilomo> but wouldn't it be too much like vista?
[21:12] <thorwil> dilomo: if you want to stay synthetic, consider silicone, waxy rubber
[21:13]  * _MMA_ is gonna writs a Compiz plugin that gives every window a Web2.0 reflection. :P
[21:13] <thorwil> dilomo: looking for "silicone" reference images is great fun :)
[21:14] <dilomo> I have a glassy progressbar so I can use glass
[21:14] <dilomo> yes the silicon is fun :)
[21:14] <dilomo> _MMA_:  :)
[21:14] <thorwil> be mindful of the e at the end
[21:14] <thorwil> gotta run, cya!
[21:14] <_MMA_> later
[21:15] <dilomo> bye
[21:15] <dilomo> http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/elements/silicon/silicon.jpg that's it
[21:16] <_MMA_> That's interesting.
[21:16] <_MMA_> I think the clay thing is spot-on for Ubuntu though.
[21:17] <dilomo> yes but would not match New Wave very much
[21:18] <_MMA_> Yeah. I'm just talking generally.
[21:19] <dilomo> yeah for another theme it would be perfect match especially if there are more accents with ceramics
[21:23] <_MMA_> dilomo: I like how you have the bottom frame go into the, what do we call that? "Resize handle"?
[21:24] <_MMA_> I'd like to do that for the Studio theme.
[21:24] <dilomo> where exactly are you looking at
[21:24] <_MMA_> Nautilus: http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1229460199.png
[21:25] <dilomo> ahh you mean the Frame (shadow etched out)
[21:25] <_MMA_> sure
[21:25] <dilomo> ok go ahead and do it
[21:26] <_MMA_> It's just an idea. :) I either want a massive change to the look of Studio or wanna leave it as-is.
[21:27] <dilomo> I think you should go for big but slow change
[21:28] <_MMA_> Naa... I like to jolt/shock people. :P But really atm it just comes down to time.
[21:29] <_MMA_> I gotta find the time to do the changes or someone really dedicated to do it.
[21:29] <_MMA_> They are really hard to find.
[21:30] <dilomo> thats true
[21:31] <dilomo> I would have done it but I have a lot of work and that will not change anytime soon
[21:31] <dilomo> I barely find time to work on new wave
[21:32] <_MMA_> It's funny because Studio is wide open to anyone with vision and the will to follow through. Nobody seems to be able to take it on. I figured the freedom I would give would be appealing to *someone*. :)
[21:38] <dilomo> :)
[21:40] <dilomo> time will tell
[21:44] <dilomo> I have to run
[21:45] <dilomo> cya
[21:45] <_MMA_> later