[02:49] <Ahmuck-Jr> Nubae: PCE-T01: File not found
[02:49] <Ahmuck-Jr> PXE-E3B: TFTP Error - File not found
[03:10] <dmhardison> Nubae, I have been reading your tutorial, it is very good by the way, but I wanted to ask do the applications load over the network via nfs after bootup, or are they included as a part of the intial bootup of the operating system.
[03:37] <dmhardison> This is unfortunate. I cannot seem to figure out why the system is booting and then falling into initramfs.  Its telling me connection is refused for some reason for the nbi.img, along with some other errors afterwards.
[03:38] <Ahmuck-Jr> fresh install ?
[03:40] <dmhardison> I have tried that.
[03:40] <dmhardison> I remade my ltsp client directory.
[03:41] <dmhardison> I had to create a symbolic link for some reason from fati386 to i386 because I found out that client was requesting the wrong directory for some reason.
[03:41] <dmhardison> Its written correctly in my dhcpd.conf file.
[03:51] <Ahmuck-Jr> hrm, i wonder if that is my problem
[03:52] <Ahmuck-Jr> where did you create the sym link to/from
[04:05] <Ahmuck-Jr> nn
[04:28] <LaserJock> hi RichEd
[04:32] <RichEd> hi there ...
[04:32] <RichEd> just popped in - couldn't sleep - back off to bed in a few min
[04:33] <RichEd> we need to catch up this week ... is there a meeting on for today ?
[04:39] <LaserJock> RichEd: not that I know of
[04:39] <LaserJock> RichEd: we should probably schedule one
[16:51] <Nubae> greets RichEd
[16:51]  * RichEd was
[16:51] <RichEd> oops :p
[16:51]  * RichEd waves to nixternal 
[16:52] <RichEd> damn ... let me try that again
[16:52]  * RichEd waves to Nubae 
[16:52] <Ahmuck> good morning Nubae
[16:52] <Ahmuck> well, still no fat client :(
[16:52] <Ahmuck> did yo notice someone was else was chatting about it last evening?
[16:53] <nixternal> what's up RichEd!!
[16:54] <Nubae> yeah, supporting it is a full time job! ;-)
[16:54] <Nubae> so whats the issue now Ahmuck?
[16:55] <RichEd> nixternal: long day and fuzzy disposable contact lenses well past their "see clearly" date ... 'twas an attempt to return Nubae's greeting ... wave back or ignore me :) your choice
[16:56] <nixternal> haha
[16:56]  * nixternal waves back to RichEd and tosses him 2 beers, one to use as an opener, and the other to drink!
[16:57] <RichEd> schweet my bra ... the local reply in the sort of place where you open beers as demonstrated at UDS
[16:58] <Nubae> RichEd: yesterday talked with Laserjock a bit about the implication of wine going into main
[16:59] <Nubae> for education its quite important to support various win apps
[16:59] <Nubae> usually schools don't make the migration to Ubuntu because one or 2 apps are only available in win
[16:59] <RichEd> i thought that wine was commercial ... last time I dug around ... has that changed or is there a loophole ?
[16:59] <Nubae> and they must use them because of whatever archaic law
[17:00] <Nubae> you're thinking of crossover
[17:00] <Nubae> wine is the free totally open source non commercial version
[17:01] <Nubae> made by the same guys (codeweavers)
[17:01] <RichEd> Nubae: I well appreciate the argument and value ... i hear internet cafe owners who want to move to Ubuntu but need to be able to offer their customers windows based gaming
[17:01] <Nubae> yeah there was a conversation on MOTU
[17:01] <Nubae> about the positivity of the move
[17:02] <Nubae> so anyway, me and Laserjock thought about listing which edu apps (windows) will run on wine
[17:02] <Nubae> on the website... what do u think?
[17:02] <Nubae> there was some discussion about including something that would install the apps too, by downloading from the vendor site, but that might have implications
[17:03] <RichEd> ubuntu _ ltsp = good low maintenance free icafe solution ... one image, one config, easy swop out on h/w failure
[17:03] <RichEd> Nubae: sounds good :)
[17:04] <Nubae> yeah I've installed it in an icafe.. only problem is lack of really good management software for the terminals (timers), but italc sort of does the job
[17:04] <RichEd> that site i showed you at UDS ... i think we should crib the layout & style for any app list pages on edubuntu.org
[17:04]  * RichEd digs in his log for the link
[17:05] <Nubae> ah good, if u have a style in mind, that would be helpful, I've got a layout now, but its very simplistic, apps listed in 2 columns, with title, desc, category, icon, rating
[17:05] <RichEd> this one: http://appnr.com/
[17:06] <Nubae> ah yeah I remember
[17:06] <Nubae> u think I should include the games from the spreadsheet as well?
[17:07] <RichEd> Nubae: I reckon so ... but please make sure we get someone to review and run them to check which are "up to standard"
[17:07] <RichEd> I downloaded & installed some for my kids the other day, and some are definately version 0.x and quite frustrating
[17:08] <RichEd> once installed, you can see at a glance (first look, 2 mins) if they are worthwhile ... bad windows handling, no resize, no fullscreen etc.
[17:09] <RichEd> Sort by Name  | Popularity <- this is a nice option on that site I posted
[17:09] <RichEd> We could do: Sort by Subject | Age / School Level as well
[17:10] <RichEd> So if you could make the page read from a database ... the display or sort flexibility would be nice :)
[17:11] <Nubae> yeah thats why rating or even release stage would be good
[17:11] <Nubae> I can do that no problem, but then we need access to the server
[17:11] <Nubae> well, maybe not...
[17:11] <Nubae> I guess can host the database elsewhere
[17:12] <Nubae> maybe a review then?
[17:20] <RichEd> If we motivate, I am sure we can get a database on the server, or access to one on an ubuntu.com machine
[17:21] <RichEd> a review would be good ... one of the aims was to allow teachers to propose new FOSS they had been using, along with a short review
[17:21] <Nubae> yep, great, so we expand that to include win edu apps
[17:21] <Nubae> that will get more involvement I think
[17:21] <Ahmuck> i'd be happy to test
[17:21] <Nubae> make it clear not supported, but info should be available, especially when it community based
[17:21] <Ahmuck> if it can break, i can break it
[17:22] <RichEd> then if other people found the application useful or gave it a good rating, then we would concentrate on those for main / universe effort
[17:22] <Nubae> yeah good idea
[17:22] <Nubae> love it
[17:22] <RichEd> Ahmuck: carefuk there buddy "if it can break, i can break it" is Trademarked to one George Dubya
[17:23] <RichEd> oops * careful not ahen carefu!
[17:24] <Ahmuck> inlcude windows games ?
[17:24] <Ahmuck> doesn't wine apps do that?
[17:24] <Ahmuck> app database?
[17:24] <Nubae> no no, talking about linux games
[17:24] <Ahmuck> ah
[17:25] <Ahmuck> there are some very neat games that are windows going to linux but not quite there yet
[17:25] <Nubae> this is listing all the edu apps and games for linux we are talking about, but listing edu apps for windows is cool too
[17:25] <Nubae> not sure about games, that would be far too big I fear
[17:25] <Ahmuck> and some very neat childrens apps, that are windows with no intention of going to linux.  dinnerdash is one of those, game/managment sim
[17:26] <Nubae> I guess it wouldn't hurt to list childrens games that work...
[17:26] <Ahmuck> anywho, back to the fat client with cholestoral :)
[17:27] <Ahmuck> children learn through games, music, etc.
[17:27] <Nubae> tell me
[17:27] <Ahmuck-Jr> k ...
[17:28] <Ahmuck-Jr> PXE-T01: File not found
[17:28] <Ahmuck-Jr> PXE-E3B: TFTP Error - File not found
[17:29] <Ahmuck-Jr>  (don't think of it as support, think of it as refining the tutorial) :)
[17:29] <Nubae> ok, which image is it trying to load
[17:29] <Nubae> check the log files, should be syslog
[17:30] <Ahmuck-Jr> someone last evening said they had to symlink the image to get it to work. said they checked the logs and found out it was trying to load the wrong image
[17:30] <Nubae> nah, that was totally wrong
[17:30] <Nubae> no symlinking please
[17:30] <RichEd> Nubae: seen this ? quite a useful document
[17:30] <RichEd> http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=155

[17:31] <RichEd>  	Catalog of Free and Open Source Software for Education  	
[17:31] <RichEd> 	OSV has prepared the following report for the primary and secondary education sector. Within it, we have researched and provided a synopsis on a range of software which we believe will be beneficial to educators and students. We have also included a large list of other open source applications.
[17:31] <RichEd> Download Catalog of Free and Open Source Software for Education report (PDF, 11MB)
[17:31] <RichEd> 	
[17:31] <Nubae> he used the i386 image instead of the newly created fati386
[17:32] <Nubae> ah wait, Ahmuck-Jr, edit the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386/pxelinux.cfg/default
[17:32] <Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15508
[17:34] <Ahmuck-Jr> there is no /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386/pxelinux.cfg directory
[17:35] <Nubae> there's the problem then...
[17:35] <Nubae> u did ltsp-update-image yesterday?
[17:35] <Ahmuck-Jr> it completed, yes
[17:39] <nubae> damn pidgin
[17:39] <Ahmuck> he he, konversation rocks :)
[17:40] <nubae> does this exist for you? /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386
[17:43] <nubae> RichEd: that looks pretty cool
[17:43] <nubae> I'll try ripping some of it off, or perhaps asking for permission would be better...
[17:43] <nubae> oh never mind its creative commons
[17:48] <Ahmuck> k, let me go look
[17:49] <Ahmuck-Jr> yes
[17:50] <RichEd> nubae: use it., and let them know how please you/we are ... and invite them to review and use our own list
[17:50] <RichEd> quid pro quo
[17:51] <nubae> cool
[17:59] <Ahmuck-Jr> brb
[18:16] <Ahmuck-Jr> state of kansas is short of funding to complete the school year
[18:17] <Ahmuck-Jr> having wine on edubuntu may provide an opening for using linux in classroom
[18:19] <Ahmuck-Jr> a neat little program is this one - http://ichi2.net/anki/
[18:19] <Ahmuck-Jr> it's cross platform
[19:12] <LaserJock> RichEd: around?
[19:19]  * Ahmuck thinks i scared Nubae away :(
[19:24] <LaserJock> uh oh
[19:24]  * LaserJock declares Ahmuck must replace nubae
[19:24] <Ahmuck> Noooo.  i'm a nubee
[19:25] <Ahmuck> newbie ?
[19:32] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: we were all newbies once :-)
[19:34] <LaserJock> morgs: around?
[19:34] <morgs> LaserJock: hey
[19:34] <Ahmuck> speaking of wine and edubuntu there needs to be a way to sepearte profiles
[19:34] <Ahmuck> for individual testing programs and such
[19:35] <LaserJock> morgs: I'm really sorry, that whole "I just need to finish some grading stuff" thing ended up taking 2 whole days :(
[19:35] <LaserJock> morgs: do you still need uploads?
[19:35] <morgs> LaserJock: yeah :)
[19:35] <highvoltage> howdy morgs
[19:36] <morgs> highvoltage!
[19:36] <LaserJock> morgs: can you give me the bug # again?
[19:36] <morgs> LaserJock: bug 263173
[19:36] <morgs> LaserJock: it's a no-change rebuild
[19:36] <morgs> LaserJock: In hardy the source package is hulahop, in intrepid it's sugar-hulahop
[19:37] <morgs> (due to now syncing from debian)
[19:37] <LaserJock> ok
[19:37] <LaserJock> let me fix the release targeting real quick here, it gives me a headache :-0
[19:38] <morgs> thanks!
[19:38] <LaserJock> ahh crap
[19:38] <LaserJock> stupid LP
[19:39] <LaserJock> this is gonna get ugly
[19:39] <highvoltage> LaserJock: you realise that morgs was once an LP developer? :)
[19:40] <morgs> highvoltage: no worries, I think LP is a bit ugly in this place...
[19:40] <LaserJock> morgs: oh really? I didn't know you were a LP dev
[19:40] <LaserJock> I knew you were involved with Canonical at some point
[19:41] <highvoltage> LaserJock: dude, he even worked for thawte back in the day
[19:41] <morgs> LaserJock: it was a while ago, before anybody knew about LP :)
[19:42] <LaserJock> cool
[19:42] <LaserJock> morgs: what's the status of this bug in Jaunty?
[19:42] <morgs> LaserJock: it needs to be uploaded in Jaunty too, but that's a lower priority
[19:44] <LaserJock> weird, hulahop gives weird rmadison results
[19:44] <LaserJock>    hulahop | 0.4-1ubuntu3 | hardy/universe | source, amd64, i386
[19:44] <LaserJock>    hulahop | 0.4.6-0ubuntu2 | intrepid/universe | all
[19:44] <LaserJock>    hulahop | 0.4.7~dfsg-1ubuntu1 | jaunty/universe | all
[19:44] <LaserJock> but I checked in LP and it's not in intrepid or jaunty
[19:45] <morgs> LaserJock: there's a transition package in intrepid/jaunty built from sugar-hulahop
[19:47] <morgs> LaserJock: In hardy, the source package is hulahop and the binary package is hulahop. In intrepid and jaunty, the source package is sugar-hulahop, generating binary packages of hulahop (transition) and python-hulahop.
[19:47] <LaserJock> ah, right
[19:48] <morgs> I was so tempted to just *not* sync from debian, because we had a lot of problems with the debian packager, but I think we're over that now - in theory I have commit access to the git repo for the debian packaging
[19:54] <LaserJock> good
[20:15] <LaserJock> morgs: so if you try to start the browser and it just sits there pulsating does that mean it failed?
[20:17] <morgs> LaserJock: yeah
[20:17] <LaserJock> morgs: ok
[20:17] <morgs> LaserJock: you can look in ~/.sugar/default/logs for logs
[20:18] <LaserJock> morgs: btw, this is first time I've ever seen/used Sugar, lots of fun
[20:18] <morgs> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu has some info on running with debug logs enabled
[20:18] <morgs> LaserJock: :)
[20:18] <morgs> running "SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL=debug PRESENCESERVICE_DEBUG=1 sugar-emulator" will turn debug logs on
[20:19] <morgs> the expected output right now is something about libxul not found
[20:20] <LaserJock> I got this:
[20:20] <LaserJock> ImportError: libpyxpcom.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[20:21] <LaserJock> not sure if that's how it would manifest not being able to find libxul or not
[20:21] <morgs> I must just downgrade quickly, I fixed this in the PPA
[20:21] <nubae> greets LaserJock
[20:21] <nubae> and morgs
[20:22] <morgs> hi nubae
[20:22] <nubae> http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=155
[20:22] <LaserJock> morgs: dumb question, how to I leave Sugar?
[20:22] <nubae> take a look, a nice list of all open source edu apps
[20:22] <nubae> right now ctrl+alt+backspace
[20:22] <LaserJock> nubae: yeah, it's been around a few years :-)
[20:22] <morgs> LaserJock: press F3 to go to Home View, hover (or right-click) on central XO figure, Shutdown
[20:22] <morgs> LaserJock: or alt-shift-q if running sugar-emulator
[20:23] <nubae> morgs: that hasn't worked for my setups, always had to use combo keys
[20:23] <nubae> but probably ltsp related
[20:23] <morgs> nubae: hmm, there is a patch somewhere for logout, I must try to SRU that in too
[20:24] <LaserJock> alt-shift-q worked
[20:24] <LaserJock> F3 didn't for some reason
[20:25] <nubae> riched was on earlier and suggested we put all the apps in a database and link to that so we can sort/search
[20:25] <morgs> LaserJock: F1-F4 are "zoom levels" corresponding to special keys on the XO: F1 = network neighborhood view for collaboration, F2 = groups view/friends view, F3 = Home, F4 = the running activity
[20:26] <LaserJock> nubae: agreed. we had a spec about that ~ 1 year ago
[20:26] <LaserJock> nubae: you might dig that up and see what you think
[20:26] <LaserJock> morgs: well F3 worked the first time, I ran some stuff, but when I hit it again it didn't do anything
[20:27] <LaserJock> not sure if it's because of using xephyr or something
[20:27] <morgs> LaserJock: hmm, if you get something reproducible let me know...
[20:28] <LaserJock> morgs: so I *should* be able to hit F3 at any time and go back to that Home view?
[20:28] <morgs> LaserJock: yeah
[20:30] <nubae> talking of collaboration, inkscape supports xmpp
[20:30] <LaserJock> good grief
[20:30] <LaserJock> Abiword has collaboration, inkscape, at some point I'm gonna want to just be left alone to work :-)
[20:30] <nubae> app called inkboard :-)
[20:31] <nubae> yeah I think we should definetly explain how to set up collab for those though, its an awsome feature, as evidenced by Sugar
[20:31] <morgs> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu.com/87300/ is my log file for Browse failing with this hulahop problem
[20:32] <nubae> would be nice to see inkscape in Sugar
[20:32] <morgs> nubae: yeah :)
[20:32] <LaserJock> morgs: mine looks different
[20:33] <morgs> LaserJock: on intrepid?
[20:33] <LaserJock> yeah
[20:34] <LaserJock> want a pastebin?
[20:34] <morgs> yes please
[20:35] <LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu.com/87302/
[20:35] <Ahmuck> SugarCRM?
[20:35] <Ahmuck> nubae: whenever u have time
[20:35] <morgs> Ahmuck: no, Sugar, the educational platform originally developed for the OLPC laptop
[20:36] <nubae> Ahmucktell me I'm here now
[20:36]  * Ahmuck searches
[20:36] <nubae> last thing was I asked if /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386 existed
[20:37] <nubae> LaserJock: so we have inkscape, gobby, chat (various), and abiword that do collab on regular gnome... anything else?
[20:38] <nubae> ah, and chesspark...
[20:38] <LaserJock> morgs: wow, that is *slick*
[20:39] <LaserJock> nubae: I'm not sure, that's all I can think of right now
[20:39] <morgs> LaserJock: do you get the same error in a python interpreter if you just "import hulahop"? I get the traceback showing the same "from hulahop._hulahop import shutdown" line but mine gives ImportError: libxul.so
[20:40] <Ahmuck> nubae: yes
[20:40] <LaserJock> morgs: one sec, I installed rebuild .debs
[20:40] <nubae> good, pastebin me the contents
[20:40] <morgs> LaserJock: in any case, the rebuild should fix it
[20:41] <LaserJock> morgs: it did, I'm just paranoid about stuff I upload :-)
[20:41] <morgs> LaserJock: libpyxpcom.so and libxul.so are both in /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.4 and hulahop was built against /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.3
[20:42] <morgs> LaserJock: I'm glad you're learning about Sugar :)
[20:42] <LaserJock> morgs: yeah, I figured they'd be from the same package since xpcom is a xul thing
[20:42] <LaserJock> morgs: it's really pretty interesting
[20:42] <LaserJock> and easy to play around with
[20:43] <morgs> So easy the kids can learn it before they are even literate - but the teachers need (re)training...
[20:43] <LaserJock> morgs: I get the same libpyxpcom.so error from python console
[20:43] <nubae> don't look for the start button bottom right
[20:43] <nubae> :-)
[20:44] <LaserJock> so must be just something slightly different on my system that it tries to load that before libxul.os or something
[20:44] <nubae> or left even
[20:44] <morgs> LaserJock: OK, not sure why it's a bit different but I don't have a completely pristine system right now
[20:44] <LaserJock> morgs: also, F3 is fine
[20:44] <morgs> :)
[20:44] <LaserJock> I was expecting to go back to the favorites view when I hit F3
[20:44] <LaserJock> but it kept me in the list view
[20:45] <LaserJock> so I wasn't going anywhere :-)
[20:46] <morgs> LaserJock: that has been suggested as an improvement, I'm not sure why it hasn't been implemented
[20:46] <morgs> The list view is still part of the home view :)
[20:48] <nubae> is there any way to run xo apps without sugar shell?
[20:48] <morgs> nubae: not at this stage.
[20:48] <nubae> is it an idea in the works?
[20:49] <morgs> There has been some work on switching to metacity instead of matchbox, and reducing the dependencies, but at this stage python activities depend on the whole stack.
[20:50] <morgs> I don't know how etoys handles running on Sugar or without Sugar, if it's just a configuration option
[20:50] <nubae> I tried installing it in metacity, and no go
[20:50] <nubae> from the intrepid repos
[20:50] <nubae> etoys that is
[20:50] <LaserJock> morgs: sugar-hulahop uploaded
[20:51] <morgs> LaserJock: thanks!
[20:51] <morgs> nubae: I haven't really looked at etoys on ubuntu yet
[20:52] <nubae> well its listed in edubuntu apps, but it doesn't start
[20:52] <LaserJock> morgs: do you have an impending upload of sugar-hulahop for Jaunty?
[20:53] <morgs> LaserJock: no not yet
[20:53] <nubae> I'm talking regular coffee, without sugar :-)
[20:53] <LaserJock> nubae: it's listed where?
[20:53] <morgs> :)
[20:53] <LaserJock> morgs: I'll upload to Jaunty then as well if that's ok with you
[20:53] <morgs> LaserJock: that would be great, thanks
[20:54] <nubae> http://appnr.com/?search=etoys
[20:54] <nubae> sorry but thats not edubuntu...
[20:57] <morgs> LaserJock: thanks, I need to go sleep now, but I'll test it tomorrow morning
[20:58] <LaserJock> morgs: are you sure it doesn't work on Jaunty?
[20:58] <LaserJock> morgs: james_w did a merge on 20th of Nov with changes to make it build right against xul
[20:59] <morgs> LaserJock: um, no, that's great. So nothing needed there.
[20:59] <morgs> I must get a jaunty VM going...
[21:00]  * morgs -> $HOME
[21:03] <Ahmuck> there is one file there, lts.conf
[21:03] <Ahmuck> nubae:
[21:04] <nubae> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Telepathy%20and%20other%20Projects
[21:07] <nubae> Ahmuck: the kernel and stuff should be pretty much the same for both i386 and fati386, so copy -R /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386
[21:07] <nubae> making sure lts.conf is backed up first, as that will be different
[21:14] <Ahmuck-Jr> bingo!  thx nubae
[21:15] <Ahmuck-Jr> so, does ur instruction set have an error
[21:16] <nubae> no
[21:17] <nubae> just that because the very end didn't run, it didn't copy across the kernel init files
[21:17] <nubae> so the script was b0rken...
[21:17] <nubae> its fine now though since I uploaded the changed version yesterday
[21:31] <eth01> i have a wiki page.. which i'd like removing
[21:31] <eth01> is that possible?
[21:31] <eth01> (it's for myself)
[21:33] <nubae> which page?
[21:34] <eth01> it's on the edubuntu wikipedia thing
[21:34] <eth01> let me find it
[21:34] <eth01> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/eth01
[21:35] <LaserJock> eth01: there's not much of anything there
[21:35] <eth01> doesn't matter
[21:35] <LaserJock> k
[21:36] <eth01> i'd like it to be removed :)
[21:36] <eth01> (nonetheless)
[21:36] <LaserJock> it will also leave wiki.ubuntu.com as well
[21:36] <eth01> just something else google picks up
[21:36]  * LaserJock just doesn't want to get into trouble :-)
[21:36] <eth01> its ok
[21:36] <eth01> ^^
[21:37] <LaserJock> eth01: gone
[21:37] <eth01> thanks :)
[21:37] <eth01> want me to confirm it just incase somebody says anything?
[21:37] <Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: ah, well i could have just re-run the script?
[21:38] <LaserJock> eth01: nah, it was a basically empty page anyway
[21:38] <eth01> ok
[21:38] <eth01> ;)
[21:38] <nubae> yeah but takes for ever, so this was easier Ahmuck-Jr :-)
[21:41] <nubae> btw, yesterday I mentioned quanta plus, I meant to say Xara
[22:55] <Ahmuck-Jr> i wondered about htat
[22:55] <Ahmuck-Jr> i looked at quanta plus and was scratching my head
[22:55] <nubae> lol, yeah
[22:56] <nubae> wow, I switched from pidgin to empathy... very nice...
[22:57] <LaserJock> I'm not a big fan of it yet, but it looks promising
[22:58] <nubae> well it does everything pidgin should do, and has proper xmpp support
[22:59] <nubae> but yeah their roadmap looks real promising
[23:00] <stgraber> nubae: file transfer ?
[23:01] <nubae> supposedly, but haven't found it in the gui yet... but its listed
[23:02] <LaserJock> it doesn't do quite everything
[23:03] <LaserJock> it's IRC support is there in name only
[23:03] <LaserJock> I don't think I could even connect last time I tried
[23:03] <LaserJock> it doesn't have any plugins
[23:04] <nubae> I'm on irc via empathy right now
[23:04] <nubae> works just fine
[23:04] <nubae> better than pidgin in fact
[23:04] <stgraber> nubae: jaunty ?
[23:04] <nubae> intrepid
[23:05] <stgraber> oh, ok
[23:05] <nubae> requires installing empathy-idle
[23:05] <nubae> I think latest src includes file transfer too, I'm checking that now
[23:05] <stgraber> I tried empathy some weeks ago on Intrepid, file transfer was missing (I couldn't send and receive files) and the UI crashed twice a day or so (though the backend was still connected so I just had to start the UI again)
[23:06] <nubae> pidgin crashes constantly for me, which is what prompted me to switch, lets see how empathy behaves
[23:06] <nubae> the big thing though is it uses just telepathy and much tighter integation with the desktop
[23:10] <LaserJock> weird
[23:10] <LaserJock> I've never had pidgin crash on me I don't think
[23:11] <nubae> well empathy just crashed on me now too
[23:11] <nubae> but I didnt loose the conversations which is weird
[23:11] <LaserJock> and empathy's IRC was no good at all last time I tried it on intrepid
[23:11] <nubae> I think its quite nice actually... log files and all
[23:11] <nubae> has a nice little calendar
[23:12] <nubae> nice search features
[23:12] <nubae> but its probably not stable enough yet
[23:13] <nubae> its great for communicating with xos (sugar) as it has salut support, which I dont believe pidgin has, or am I wrong?
[23:14] <LaserJock> don't know
[23:14] <LaserJock> I just use jabber and IRC
[23:16] <nubae> file transfer is now in it, in the source package
[23:19] <nubae> no msn or irc file transfer though
[23:35] <LaserJock> ogra: do you follow the edubuntu.jaunty seed at all?
[23:35] <ogra> no, i didnt yet
[23:36] <LaserJock> ogra: I reworked the desktop-kde seed quite a bit
[23:36] <LaserJock> ogra: I also added pessulus to the desktop-addon seed
[23:36] <ogra> feel free to commit
[23:36] <ogra> great
[23:36] <Ahmuck> desktop addon?
[23:36] <ogra> wasnt that in already ?
[23:36] <LaserJock> for some reason pessulus was in the kde seed but not the desktop-addon seed :s
[23:36] <ogra> i thought it was
[23:36] <ogra> weird
[23:36] <Ahmuck> what's a seed?
[23:37] <Ahmuck> in this context
[23:37] <LaserJock> I made 2 replacements in desktop-kde
[23:37] <LaserJock> I took gpaint and dia-gnome out
[23:37] <LaserJock> and put in kolourpaint4 and umbrello
[23:37] <ogra> yeah, they dont really belong into kde
[23:37] <LaserJock> I also took out screem as it's pretty buggy and not worth the Gnome deps, IMO
[23:38] <ogra> Ahmuck, seeds are the packagelists the metapackages are built from
[23:38] <ogra> yeah, we didnt have a better html editor in main back then
[23:38] <ogra> bluefish was to sparse
[23:39] <ogra> and the netscape thing (forgot the name) wasnt possible to go to main
[23:39] <LaserJock> quanta will be good for KDE but they have no KDE4 version yet so I just took screem out
[23:39] <alkisg> LaserJock: good job!
[23:39] <Ahmuck> kompozer
[23:39] <Ahmuck> netscape --> seamonkey
[23:40] <LaserJock> I did leave gobby and inkscape
[23:40] <LaserJock> and put in italic
[23:41] <ogra> right it was NVU ... which turned into kompozer
[23:41] <Ahmuck> hai
[23:41] <ogra> gobby is essential
[23:41] <LaserJock> so I *think* it should make edubuntu-desktop-kde much better
[23:41] <ogra> until KDE has something equivalent at least
[23:41] <LaserJock> yeah
[23:42] <LaserJock> but I made gobby Recommends instead of Depends
[23:46] <ogra> yeah
[23:48] <LaserJock> phew ...
[23:48] <LaserJock> I need to quit
[23:48] <LaserJock> got some good stuff done today though
[23:48] <ogra> cool, thanks LaserJock