[00:26] <mrooney> Is there any way to set up a project mailing list in launchpad?
[00:30] <wgrant> mrooney: Mailing lists are related to teams.
[00:32] <mrooney> wgrant: okay so, create a <projectname>-users team or something and set up a mailing list?
[00:32] <wgrant> I guess so.
[00:33] <kiko> mrooney, exactly what wgrant says -- foo-users is the way to go.
[00:34] <wgrant> Hopefully there will be a way to link teams to projects soon.
[00:34] <kiko> there are already
[00:34] <kiko> they might just not be the way you want to link them
[00:34] <kiko> har har :)
[00:34] <wgrant> Blah.
[00:35] <wgrant> Oh, that reminds me - does the distro members team serve any purpose other than showing linkage?
[00:36] <kiko> wgrant, not today. it is in part only a requirement for ubuntu because we do some things special for ubuntu members
[00:36] <wgrant> Ah. I'd always thought it odd that it was a special field which appeared to have no purpose whatsoever.
[00:45] <nhandler> Someone mentioned that pitti gave a talk about setting up bug filters to get more use out of launchpad's emails. Does anyone know if this talk has been made available online?
[00:45] <wgrant> I'm not aware of it, but I remember the content if you want it quickly related to you now.
[00:45] <kiko> nhandler, not sure, but the technology is all there
[00:46] <nhandler> wgrant: That would be great.
[00:48] <kiko> nhandler, https://help.launchpad.net/LaunchpadMessageRationale?highlight=(header)
[00:49] <wgrant> nhandler: Basically, he described how he sorted bugmail based on the rationale headers into priority-based folders. Bugmail for bugs to which he was a direct subscriber or assignee went into the top-priority folder, some group subscriptions get blackholed (because the web UI is better for archive admin tasks), some groups go into specific folders, and bug contact mail goes into really low priority folders. It certainly works very well when ...
[00:49] <wgrant> ... you have tonnes of bugmail.
[00:49] <wgrant> He then outlined procmail snippets for how to do it, but that's easy enough to work out.
[00:50] <nhandler> Ok, thanks a lot kiko and wgrant. I might look into setting up some gmail filters. Right now, I just have all of my bug mail going to my inbox, which is really inefficient.
[00:50] <wgrant> Oh, dear.
[00:50] <wgrant> That'd be bad.
[00:50] <kiko> oh dear
[00:50] <kiko> he said it
[00:50] <wgrant> I can't imagine doing that.
[00:50] <kiko> GMAIL
[00:50] <wgrant> Gmail is really bad for filtering on custom headers, isn't it?
[00:50] <kiko> can gmail do arbitrary header filtering?
[00:50] <kiko> wgrant and I
[00:50] <wgrant> I don't think I've used it since 6 months after it first appeared.
[00:50] <kiko> we are the same person
[00:51] <kiko> just lagged 15 years
[00:51] <wgrant> Heh.
[00:52] <nhandler> It doesn't look like it can filter on custom headers
[00:52] <wgrant> Hahaha.
[00:52] <kiko> nhandler, can you file a bug on gmail? :)
[00:52] <nhandler> Darn. It would have saved me a lot of time. Now I need to set up filters in all of my mail clients
[00:52] <wgrant> I can't believe it's still like that...
[00:52] <nhandler> kiko: I wish ;)
[00:53] <Nafallo> make google use launchpad!
[00:53] <Nafallo> \o/
[00:53] <mwhudson> that limitation of gmail has al;ways seemed particularly gratuitous
[00:53] <kiko> there's a thought
[00:54] <nhandler> I might look into the gadgets and see if there is any way that a gadget could accomplish this
[00:55] <kfogel> So is there a way to delete a bzr branch from launchpad?  (https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kfogel/bzr/bug-306394)
[00:55] <wgrant> kfogel: The delete button, to the right of the title.
[00:55] <mwhudson> little red icon next to the title
[00:55] <kfogel> wgrant: oh, the one that doesn't say "delete" until you hover over it :-).
[00:55] <kfogel> thank you!
[00:56]  * kfogel mutters something about the whole world moving to pictures instead of words
[00:56] <kfogel> (Not that I actually think this is a bad UI -- I'm just not used to it.)
[00:56] <wgrant> At least it's better than the yellow exclamation mark.
[00:56] <Nafallo> haha
[00:57] <kfogel> wgrant: so, the next question is: do I want to delete that?  Here's what it is: I first created my own bzr.dev branch locally, like this: bzr branch http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev/ bzr.dev
[00:57] <kfogel> then I created a second branch from my newly-created bzr.dev branch, like this:
[00:57] <kfogel> bzr branch bzr.dev bug-306394-status-continue-after-nonexistent-file
[00:58] <wgrant> Hm, why were multi-PPAs reverted?
[00:58] <kfogel> Then I went into that newest branch (bug-...), made a change, and did 'bzr commit'.
[00:58] <kfogel> Then I did 'bzr push lp:~kfogel/bzr/bug-306394'
[00:58] <wgrant> Why do you want to delete it?
[00:59] <kfogel> (I'm giving lots of context before I get to that part, sorry.)
[00:59]  * Nafallo sees private builds
[00:59] <kfogel> So the problem is, now that https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kfogel/bzr/bug-30639 has shown up on the server, I don't see a web-based way to browse into it to see the change(s) that are unique to that branch -- namely, the one change I have committed so far.
[00:59] <kfogel> wgrant: What I'm wondering is:
[01:00] <wgrant> Hm.
[01:00] <kfogel> should I have *first* made a lp branch of bzr.dev, and then checked that out and made my commit(s)?
[01:00] <wgrant> You haven't pushed to it.
[01:00] <wgrant> So the link to view it isn't there.
[01:00] <kfogel> wgrant: right.  I committed locally, then pushed the whole branch (including the commit) to lp.
[01:00] <wgrant> (there is normally a 'Source Code' link in the tab bar)
[01:00] <kfogel> Did I do things kind of backwards?
[01:00] <wgrant> You apparently didn't push it, or the scanner is broken.
[01:00] <thumper> kfogel: there is a bug right now
[01:01] <thumper> kfogel: on branches stacked on a mirrored branch
[01:01] <kfogel> wgrant: well, I think also that it might still be pushing (I have slow upload speeds from home)
[01:01] <thumper> kfogel: bzr trunk is currently mirrored
[01:01] <wgrant> That's fixed tomorrow, isn't it?
[01:01] <thumper> kfogel: so hosted branches stacked on them fail
[01:01] <kfogel> thumper: oh!  thanks
[01:01] <thumper> kfogel: the rollout tomorrow fixes this
[01:01] <thumper> kfogel: sorry for any confusion
[01:01] <kfogel> thumper, wgrant: okay, thanks.  Another (possible) issue is that, locally, my 'bzr push...' command hasn't returned yet, but the branch is somehow already visible on lp as you can see.
[01:01] <kfogel> Is that bad?
[01:01] <kfogel> Good?
[01:01] <kfogel> Neither?
[01:02] <spiv> kfogel: neither ;)
[01:02] <wgrant> It has just been created. That's normal.
[01:02] <thumper> kfogel: do you know the format of your branch locally?
[01:02] <kfogel> thumper: nope, I haven't memorized the format names yet :-).
[01:02] <thumper> kfogel: ok
[01:03] <spiv> kfogel: regarding "should I have *first* made a lp branch of bzr.dev", there isn't actually a way in the LP web ui to make a branch from another branch (yet?).
[01:03] <kfogel> thumper: oh, I just read up on "stacked branches".  Neither of my branches is stacked.
[01:03] <spiv> kfogel: if there were, the answer would be that both ways would be fine.  The data that ends up on the server would be identical either way.
[01:04] <kfogel> thumper: however, I think it would make a lot of sense for my second branch to be stacked, no?
[01:04] <thumper> kfogel: in which case you are pushing the entire repository to LP
[01:04] <kfogel> I mean, it's just a bugfix branch.
[01:04] <kfogel> thumper: right (I knew I was doing that, and was wondering how to avoid it, because it didn't seem right that I would do that)
[01:04] <thumper> ideally, all branches should be stacked
[01:04] <thumper> and it should be transparent
[01:04] <wgrant> thumper: Won't LP convince the client to automatically stack?
[01:05] <kfogel> thumper: *nod*  But for reliability's sake, we have made the --stacked option not be the default, is that it?
[01:05] <thumper> no, not quite
[01:05] <kfogel> Because we want repositories to be self-contained unless the user indicates they understand the implications of stackedness?
[01:05]  * kfogel listens
[01:05] <thumper> kfogel: the server is able to suggest to the client to stack
[01:05] <kfogel> oh!
[01:05] <thumper> kfogel: which is what LP dies
[01:05] <kfogel> "does" :-)
[01:05] <kfogel> freudian slip
[01:05] <thumper> kfogel: the client then decides to stack on that
[01:05] <thumper> kfogel: yes, does
[01:06] <spiv> kfogel: (he's from NZ, his vowels sound funny...)
[01:06] <wgrant> Haha.
[01:06]  * thumper pokes spiv
[01:06] <kiko> wgrant, they weren't reverted. the unbaked part of them was reverted.
[01:06] <kfogel> spiv: at least he's not from consonant-ople
[01:06] <spiv> Uh oh, another punster!
[01:06] <kfogel> thumper: so, currently, the server from which I branched bzr.dev is not suggesting stacking to clients?
[01:07] <thumper> kfogel: where did you branch from?
[01:07] <kfogel> spiv: I oughtta be locked up in a punitentiary.
[01:07]  * thumper shakes his head at the punniness of it all
[01:07] <wgrant> kiko: Ah.
[01:07] <kfogel> thumper: pwd ==> ../bzr.dev
[01:07] <kfogel> 'bzr info -v':
[01:07] <kfogel> [floss]...bzr.dev>bzr info -v
[01:07] <kfogel> Standalone tree (format: pack-0.92)
[01:07] <kfogel> Location:
[01:07] <kfogel>   branch root: .
[01:07] <kfogel> Related branches:
[01:07] <kfogel>   parent branch: http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev/
[01:07] <kfogel> ...
[01:07] <thumper> ah
[01:07] <kiko> wgrant, we only really get multiple ppas per team/person in january anyway
[01:08] <jml> kfogel: The bzr.dev branch isn't kept in a stackable format.
[01:08] <thumper> kfogel: however if you push to LP, LP will suggest to stack on lp:bzr
[01:08]  * Nafallo +1s thumper's vowels :-)
[01:08] <kfogel> jml: I thought the question of being in stackable format would be about *my* bzr.dev branch, no?
[01:08] <kiko> right
[01:08] <kfogel> thumper: I pushed to lp with this command:
[01:09] <thumper> kfogel: your local branch is stand alone?
[01:09] <jml> kfogel: last time I tried, the formats of both mattered
[01:09] <kfogel> pwd
[01:09] <kfogel> /home/kfogel/src/bzr/bug-306394-status-continue-after-nonexistent-file
[01:09] <kfogel> bzr push lp:~kfogel/bzr/bug-306394
[01:09] <thumper> jml: I thought you could stack on a format 6 branch with pack-0.92 repo
[01:09] <kfogel> thumper: I guess my local branch is standalone, yeah
[01:10] <jml> thumper: I thought otherwise, but I haven't been rigorously testing it under each new bzr
[01:10] <spiv> kfogel: when "bzr push" stacks and you didn't explicitly request it with --stacked, it'll tell you that it's doing it.
[01:10] <thumper> spiv: sometimes it tells you even if it isn't doing it
[01:10] <jml> (although it will lie sometimes)
[01:10] <spiv> thumper: yes and no ;)
[01:11] <kiko> heh
[01:11] <spiv> thumper: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/291046
[01:11] <thumper> spiv: I'm pleased that is fix committed
[01:11] <thumper> spiv: bzr 1.11?
[01:11] <spiv> thumper: (when that bug is triggered it'll make a stacked repo but not a stacked branch)
[01:11] <spiv> Right.
[01:11]  * thumper nods
[01:13] <kfogel> Okay, I've deleted that lp branch.
[01:15] <thumper> kfogel: why?
[01:15] <thumper> kfogel: did you kill the push?
[01:16] <thumper> kfogel: or are you wanting stacking?
[01:16] <kfogel> thumper: wanting stacking
[01:17] <thumper> kfogel: you'll have to wait for the rollout to not get  a broken branch
[01:17] <kfogel> ?
[01:17] <kfogel> bzr.dev is broken for stacking right now?
[01:17] <kfogel> or you just mean lp?
[01:17]  * kfogel thinks the latter
[01:18] <thumper> kfogel: the latter
[01:18] <thumper> kfogel: we don't allow you to push to LP and stack on something outside LP
[01:19] <kfogel> thumper: but that's about to be fixed?
[01:19] <thumper> kfogel: the stacking on a mirrored branch is
[01:19] <thumper> kfogel: but you'll still not be able to stack on something outside lp
[01:20]  * thumper has to run
[01:20] <kfogel> thumper: an alternative is that I could make a branch B of the main bzr.dev (the one I originally pulled from), and have B be visible on lp.  Then I'd make a branch of B locally, work here, push changes up...
[01:20] <kfogel> thumper: okay, thanks for your help
[01:27] <spiv> kfogel: I'm not sure how adding an extra branch B into the picture would help?
[01:28] <kfogel> spiv: I guess what I'm really asking is: what's the best way to make my work-in-progress visible as I'm working, so that when I ask questions about my fix, I have something to point to?
[01:28] <kiko> kfogel, yeah, what spiv says.
[01:28] <kiko> kfogel, bzr push?
[01:28] <kiko> :)
[01:28] <kfogel> er, that's what I thought
[01:28] <kfogel> But I thought the recipe I just proposed is the minimal number of branches needed to make that work.  I'm missing something key, it sounds like...
[01:29] <kiko> kfogel, what are you missing I wonder. you branch off an existing branch into a new branch. your new branch is /yours/. just commit stuff to it and push. it's that easy! :)
[01:30] <kfogel> kiko: right. hmm, that's what I thought I said, but maybe I said something else.
[01:30] <kiko> kfogel, well, the existing branch can be the official project branch
[01:30] <kfogel> kiko: ah, I see the problem: all the branches I have made so far have been entirely local.
[01:30] <kfogel> kiko: so I do 'bzr branch URL-TO/bzr.dev bzr.dev'
[01:30] <kfogel> then locally, bzr.dev is my sandbox.
[01:30] <kfogel> great.
[01:30] <kfogel> But it's not visible to anyone else.
[01:30] <spiv> kfogel: I read what you said about "branch B" as meaning an new branch separate to where you're working locally.
[01:31] <kiko> then you bzr launchpad-login and push lp:bzr/my-fixes
[01:31] <kfogel> kiko: *nod*
[01:32] <kfogel> But, I thought recommended form was to use one branch per bugfix?
[01:32] <wgrant> bzr push lp:~username/bzr/my-fixes, you mean?
[01:32] <spiv> Basically, "bzr branch lp:bzr my-bug-fix-branch; cd my-bug-fix-branch; [hack hack hack]; bzr commit; bzr push lp:~kfogel/bzr/my-bug-fix-branch" is fine.
[01:32] <kfogel> IOW, I did 'bzr branch my_local_machine/bzr.dev bug-NNNNN'
[01:32] <kfogel> spiv: thank you
[01:32] <kfogel> I get it.
[01:33] <kfogel> spiv: what is relationship between lp:bzr and main bzr.dev ?
[01:33] <kfogel> former is a branch of the latter?
[01:33] <spiv> You can make a shared repo locally to save space/time, and/or keep a copy of bzr.dev locally for convenience, but the basic workflow isn't any different.
[01:33] <spiv> lp:bzr is Launchpad's mirror of bzr.dev.
[01:33] <kfogel> spiv: "mirror" is a type of branch?
[01:33] <spiv> Which is shorter to type on IRC :)
[01:34] <spiv> It's just a regular branch.
[01:34] <kiko> or something like that
[01:34]  * kiko wonders if bzr push lp: is that smart
[01:34] <spiv> "mirror" isn't a technical term so much as a social one, here.
[01:34] <kfogel> 6.2.1   Mirror branches
[01:34] <kfogel> 6.2.2   Task branches
[01:34] <kfogel> :-)
[01:34] <kfogel> got it
[01:35] <wgrant> 'Mirror' is a technical term in LP, isn't it?
[01:35] <kiko> kinda
[01:35] <kfogel> spiv: when I do this: "bzr branch lp:bzr my-bug-fix-branch", can I stick a '--stacked' in there and everything will still work?
[01:35] <spiv> Sure.
[01:36] <kfogel> Source format does not support stacking, using format: '1.6'
[01:36] <kfogel>   Packs 5 (adds stacking support, requires bzr 1.6)
[01:36] <spiv> kfogel: the basic idea is just that you have a branch (that you branched from bzr.dev) that you're making changes on, and when you're ready, you share those changes by pushing them to somewhere visible.
[01:36] <kfogel> (it seems to be running fine, just gave me the above msg)
[01:37] <kfogel> spiv: thanks.  Sure, that's the theory I've been operating under.  The mechanics are the question -- there seems to be a variety of ways to make that general theory happen.
[01:37] <spiv> The exact details can vary quite a bit within that pattern :)
[01:37] <kfogel> heh, we just said the same thing at the same time :-)
[01:37] <spiv> RIght. :)
[01:37] <kiko> spiv, also, he wants bzr push --remember I assume?
[01:38] <spiv> The first push remembers automatically, IIRC.
[01:38] <kiko> ah is that a fact? great default.
[01:38] <spiv> It's been a while since I did a first push, though...
[01:38] <kfogel> --remember means that future pushes will remember where they should go?
[01:39] <spiv> Right, so you can just do "bzr push".
[01:39] <kfogel> so I can just do 'bzr push' and it will Just Work?
[01:39] <kfogel> we are so on the same wavelength right now :-)
[01:39] <kiko> heh
[01:54] <jml> RAOF: nsw?
[01:59] <kiko> No So Weird
[01:59] <kiko> that's what it stands for
[02:01] <Hobbsee> we're really not so weird?
[02:01] <wgrant> We're in #launchpad, so of course we are weird.
[02:05] <kiko> we're weird
[02:05] <kiko> but not so weird
[02:07]  * Nafallo wonders what it takes to make kiko weirder... ;-)
[02:07] <Nafallo> snaps!
[02:08] <kiko> mushrooms
[02:08] <Ursinha> hey Nafallo :)
[02:08] <Nafallo> would probably not go well with snaps kiko :-)
[02:08] <Nafallo> hi Ursinha! :-D
[02:09] <Ursinha> Nafallo, isn't that too late for you?
[02:09] <Nafallo> naah
[02:09] <Nafallo> Wed Dec 17 02:09:48 GMT 2008
[02:10] <Ursinha> sleep is for the weak
[02:10] <Nafallo> I can sleep later today :-)
[02:10] <Nafallo> holiday \o/
[02:12] <mrooney> kiko: how long does it typically take for a mailing list approval?
[02:12] <kiko> mrooney, hours --- how long is yours stuck?
[02:13] <mrooney> kiko: oh I don't know I applied a few hours ago, I was just curious
[02:13] <kiko-phone> sinzui, can you check?
[02:22] <jml> Ursinha: hi
[02:22] <jml> oops, wrong channel.
[02:23] <Ursinha> lol
[03:48] <meoblast001> hi
[03:48] <meoblast001> if i send something to the mailing list for my team... does it forward it to all members?
[03:48] <meoblast001> of the team
[03:49] <nhandler> meoblast001: It will only send it to members of the team that have chosen to subscribe to the mailing list
[03:50] <meoblast001> how do i delete someone from my team
[03:50] <nhandler> meoblast001: You can do that from the /+members page
[03:50] <meoblast001> someone who said they wanted to do stuff but always ended up saying they didnt have any time
[03:50] <nhandler> Click the Yellow circle to the right of their name
[03:50] <meoblast001> i deactivated.. is that the most i can do?
[03:51] <nhandler> Yes. If they are deactivated, they are no longer on the team
[03:51] <meoblast001> ok
[03:51] <meoblast001> i need to get news to a member
[03:51] <meoblast001> via mailing list but he's not subscribed
[03:51] <nhandler> meoblast001: If you only need to contact that one user, send them an email
[03:52] <meoblast001> i need him to stop what he's doing and push changes
[03:52] <meoblast001> does launchpad list emails?
[03:52] <meoblast001> ahh i see
[03:52] <nhandler> Yes, if the user makes it public
[03:52] <wgrant> And otherwise you can hit the 'Contact this user' link.
[03:52] <nhandler> wgrant: I was just about to say that ;)
[04:01] <meoblast001> k thank you
[04:01] <meoblast001> i gtg now... thank you.. bye
[04:01] <meoblast001> good night everyone
[04:01] <nhandler> You're welcome meoblast001
[05:26] <mrooney> man that contact user feature is getting me some strange emails
[05:26] <mrooney> especially since I list three emails already, I don't really get it.
[05:27] <jamesh> mrooney: have any of them offered you exciting opportunities?
[05:27] <jamesh> or informed you of new places to play poker online?
[05:27] <mrooney> jamesh: haha no, one person asked me to add them to ubuntu members
[05:30] <Hobbsee> mrooney: i suspect they sent that to *all* ubuntumembers.
[05:30] <Hobbsee> you're the third to mentoin it today.
[05:31] <mrooney> oh okay well it said it was done via the contact this user feature
[05:31] <mrooney> perhaps you can do that to a whole tema
[05:31] <mrooney> *team
[05:31] <jamesh> Hobbsee: you could file a bug at https://launchpad.net/~launchpad/+contactuser
[05:31] <mrooney> :)
[05:35] <kiko-phone> jamesh, Hobbsee: last chance for that is today btw so use it!
[05:40] <wgrant> I'm sure you underestimate the stupidity of some users, and they will manage to work around the removal of the feature.
[05:44] <Hobbsee> jamesh: oh, i thought it was already fixed in the next rollout
[05:44] <Hobbsee> kiko: cool!  So which are the biggest teams on launchpad?
[05:44]  * Hobbsee thinks contacting everyone at ~launchpad a few hundred times would be good!
[05:44] <Hobbsee> <evil grin>
[05:45] <kiko> Hobbsee, you can only do that 3 times unfo :-/
[05:45] <wgrant> Hobbsee: It is. Which should be in a few hours as long as there isn't another huge API hole lurking.
[05:45] <kiko> but do write love letters to us
[05:45] <wgrant> kiko: 3 times a day?
[05:45] <Hobbsee> awww
[05:45] <kiko> wgrant, yes, the UTC day
[05:45] <Hobbsee> that depends how many accounts there are :P
[05:45] <wgrant> We can hope that somebody left that proper of IPerson writeable.
[05:45] <wgrant> s/proper/property/
[05:45] <kiko> you can also do the whackamole thing and get 3 * infinity :)
[12:45] <alkisg> I want to use launchpad to host a collection of scripts / small gui programs that will be used by school lab admins using ubuntu/ltsp. I want other teachers/programmers to be able to join this project and upload their own scripts. I'm just reading about launchpad. Did I understand correctly that I'll need a bazaar branch (hosted on launchpad), a team, and a PPA? Can projects have their own PPAs, or could the PPA belong to the team? I'm just asking "what
[12:48] <nhandler> alkisg: Based on what you said, you may not need a PPA. If you are just hosting scripts, a bzr branch is what you want. PPAs are personal repositories for deb packages. Each person/team on LP has their own ppa
[12:48] <alkisg> nhandler: the desired end result is for a simple teacher to be able to use synaptic to install this scripts/gui programs.
[12:49] <nhandler> alkisg: In that case, you will want a ppa, and you will need to learn how to package the scripts/gui programs.
[12:49] <cprov> alkisg: you may want a PPA later when you create a debian package with your scripts. But generally  'code' belongs to 'product branches' not PPAs.
[12:50] <cprov> alkisg: complementary steps, host your code in branches for a product and build the code using a PPA
[12:51] <alkisg> Thanks. Where would the branch (and later, the ppa) belong? To the team? Under its URL?
[12:51] <nhandler> alkisg: Branches and PPAs would belong to the team
[12:51] <nhandler> The URL would depend on the team and branch name
[12:52] <alkisg> Do you think I need anything else? So, I start with a team, then a branch, then a ppa, does that sounds right?
[12:52] <nhandler> That sounds right
[12:52] <alkisg> Thanks to both of you. :)
[12:55] <cprov> alkisg: yup, ping me if you have any doubt during the process
[12:55] <cprov> alkisg: about PPAs, don't forget to read the help page, https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA, before you start.
[12:55] <alkisg> cprov: Thanks! Should I use a launchpad-hosted branch, or a mirrored one?
[12:56] <alkisg> (I'd prefer launchpad-hosted, unless there's a reason not to)
[12:56] <cprov> alkisg: well, actually the help wiki is your friend for any doubt related to LP processes
[12:56] <cprov> alkisg: make it lp-hosted
[12:56] <alkisg> cprov, sure, I have a bunch of URLs in my to-read list! I just wanted to get on the right track. Thanks again.
[13:47] <gnomefreak> im fairly sure the answer is no but i need to ask anyway. Is there a "holding pen" for pakages that have been superseeded in PPA? to revert back to working version of pakcage
[13:48] <cprov> gnomefreak: no, but you can use the copy UI (+copy-packages)
[13:49] <gnomefreak> that would just copy the new packages i need older one
[13:49] <cprov> gnomefreak: delete the current version you disapprove, go the copy ui, change to filter to 'any status' find and selected the superseded version you want and copy it back to the same PPA and series 'including existing binaries'
[13:50] <cprov> gnomefreak: that's not true, try what I've suggested.
[13:51] <gnomefreak> i need to ask the person whos PPA it is or i just fix the broken one once i figure out if in last few days my gpg key broke or if gpg is broken or if its tbird
[13:52] <cprov> gnomefreak: ah, it's in someone else PPA
[13:52] <cprov> gnomefreak: copy his old version to your ppa and downgrade
[13:52] <cprov> err, just a suggestion, nevermind me, sorry.
[14:04] <popey> er
[14:04] <popey> ping mrevell
[14:05] <mrevell> hey there mr popey
[14:05] <popey> did anyone else get a mail to launchpad-users just now?
[14:05]  * mrevell looks
[14:05] <popey> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+question/54709 is where it came from
[14:05] <mrevell> I got the Evolution one
[14:05] <popey> yes that should _not_ have gone to launchpad-users
[14:05] <popey> it's a launchpad answers reply
[14:05] <mrevell> Oh weird
[14:06] <popey> who should I poke or where should I file a bug for that?
[14:06] <mrevell> Someone must have ~launchpad-users an answer contact. let me look
[14:07] <mrevell> nope, doesn't seem to be an answer contact.
[14:07] <mrevell> popey: Let me look at the headers, try to work out what's going on. If not, barry's the man to help
[14:08] <popey> do you need me to do anything?
[14:09] <mrevell> popey: I don't think so. Thanks for mentioning it.
[14:09] <popey> np
[14:09] <mrevell> barry: It looks as though an email generated by Answers has hit launchpad-users. I'm struggling to work out why. Any chance you could lend me your expertise?
[14:10] <popey> it also got sent out as an answers reply btw
[14:10] <popey> i got the mail twice
[14:10] <popey> once is obviously because I am an answers contact
[14:10] <popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/87078/
[14:11] <popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/87080/
[14:13] <sinzui> mrooney: I just approved your mailing list. I expect it to show up in five minutes
[14:25] <barry> mrevell: let me see if i have the message in my inbox.  what's the subject and/or message-id?
[14:25] <mrevell> barry: Subject is Is Evolution usable only on some special settings of a mail server?
[14:26] <barry> mrevell: i think i deleted that one already ;)  can you forward me the message w/full headers?
[14:26] <popey> barry: those two pastebins above have the full headers
[14:26] <popey> 14:10:41 < popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/87078/
[14:26] <popey> 14:11:03 < popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/87080/
[14:26] <barry> popey: thanks.  looking
[14:26] <mrevell> I suppose it's possible that the guy simply chose to send his message to lp-users as well as in reply to the Answers thread
[14:27] <popey> I can't imagine that was the case
[14:27] <popey> well, I can _imagine_ it :)
[14:28] <mrevell> :)
[14:32] <barry> it's a damn good question, and i can imagine it too.  the from is biglobe.ne.jp and the message-id is biglobe.ne.jp which tells me that this one didn't originate from launchpad
[14:33] <barry> mrevell, popey if you look at the received headers, it seems to me it went straight from his server in jp to our mailing list server and then to launchpad-users
[14:33] <barry> afaict
[14:34] <mrevell> barry: So, most likely the guy sent his question to the wrong list
[14:34] <barry> mrevell: if launchpad-users is the wrong list <wink>
[14:35] <mrevell> :) I think in this case it is.
[14:35] <popey> but the launchpad answers isnt a "list" as such
[14:35] <mrevell> popey: True but this wouldn't be the first example of Ubuntu support questions being asked on launchpad-users. However, normally we flush them out during moderation.
[14:35] <popey> in fact
[14:35] <popey> he didn't reply to the mail
[14:35] <popey> he used the website
[14:35] <popey> "Status: Needs information => Solved"
[14:36] <popey> the only way he could have set that status whilst replying is via http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[14:36] <popey> not by replying to his mail
[14:36] <popey> AIUI
[14:36] <popey> he didnt' ask the question mrevell
[14:36] <popey> he _answered_ / replied to a question
[14:36] <mrevell> Hmm, that is interesting popey, that this isn't a question - it's a response to one.
[14:36] <popey> exactly
[14:37] <popey> he originally created a question, i replied (via the site, not mail) and I believe he did the same
[14:37] <popey> I can test this easily by replying to a bunch of other launchpad questions and we will see if their replies to my replies turn up on launchpad-users?
[14:38] <mrevell> popey: Let's do it :)
[14:38]  * popey goes huntin' questions
[14:38]  * mrevell goes to get some fresh air
[14:38] <popey> is he subscribed to launchpad-users barry ?
[14:39] <popey> "Launchpad Users
[14:39] <popey> Joined 17 hours ago"
[14:39] <popey> he is
[14:39] <popey> so i reckon this problem will manifest itself if I answer questions for people who are in the launchpad-users team
[14:40] <popey> which will make this harder to find a question to answer
[14:42] <barry> popey: i can't tell :(  bug 308988
[14:43] <popey> dont worry, i have a person i can test with
[14:43] <popey> (me)
[14:55] <popey> bah, can't reproduce it now :(
[16:45] <kfogel> So on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kfogel/bzr/306394-status-tolerate-nonexistent, the topmost change there (3910) took a while to show up.  Is this normal?
[16:45] <kfogel> I pushed it, and the push succeeded, and I could visit http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kfogel/bzr/306394-status-tolerate-nonexistent/revision/3910 manually and see the change.
[16:46] <kfogel> But it did not show up in the list of changes at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kfogel/bzr/306394-status-tolerate-nonexistent for five or ten minutes; instead, 3909 stayed on top.
[16:47] <salgado> kfogel, yes, that's normal.  there's a script which scans branches for new revisions, which runs every few minutes, so it may take some time for revisions to show up on the web UI
[16:48] <salgado> the web UI only reads that from the DB and the DB is populated by the branch scanner
[16:49] <kfogel> salgado: ah.  thanks.  There's no other way to do this than by polling?  I think (not sure yet, just suspecting) that it may be a typical use case to push a change and then want to point someone to it.
[16:50] <salgado> kfogel, I guess it should be possible to tweak our bzr server to notify LP about the new revision when it's pushed, but I don't know how complicated that'd be
[16:50] <salgado> kfogel, also, note that the revision doesn't show up in the UI, but if you pull/merge from the branch you'll see it
[16:51] <salgado> you may have noticed that already
[16:52] <salgado> abentley, would be the right man to talk about that.  and even better, he seems to be today's help contact. :)
[16:52] <kfogel> salgado: yup, it was there right away -- I was even able to see it via the web interface (if I manually guessed the URL).
[17:16] <mrooney> sinzui: thanks :)
[17:17] <soren> Hm... All the amd64 PPA buildd's are idle, yet estimated build start for https://edge.launchpad.net/~soren/+archive/+build/816223 is 24 minutes from now.. That seems a bit odd.
[17:18] <kiko> soren, personal fudging
[17:18] <kiko> if build.owner.name == "soren": build.eta += 84600
[17:18] <soren> Could I be fudged as well? (Quotes pages bait)
[17:19] <soren> :(
[17:19] <cprov> soren: amd64 queue for PPA builds has 8 jobs
[17:19] <soren> cprov: Ok. https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds just showed me 6 idle buildd's a minute ago.
[17:20] <cprov> soren: right, 6 and decreasing, that's the whole point ;)
[17:20] <soren> cprov: :) Good point.
[17:21] <soren> It's not like I'm in a huge hurry, I just wondered since the PPA's usually build my crack just seconds after I upload.
[17:21] <cprov> soren: one day dispatching will be instantaneous, today it's not (~ 45s) and it's blocking to help :-/
[17:23] <cprov> the xmas gift from soyuz-team to the world will be a faster slave-scanner (and a pony) ... but that's a long story.
[17:24] <Ursinha> cprov, where do I register my address to receive the pony?
[17:25] <cprov> Ursinha: uhm, I guess you are already in the list.
[17:25] <Ursinha> \o/
[17:28] <abentley> kfogel: There have been proposals to implement a messaging system.  That would allow us to kick these processes off in a more event-driven manner.  We also may eliminate the mirroring phase.
[17:30] <kfogel> abentley: *nod*  Should I file a bug on this, or is it already recorded somewhere?
[17:30] <kfogel> (I could check, but you might know off the top of your head.)
[17:30] <abentley> kfogel: I have no idea if there's a bug.  It's certainly an issue that comes up often.
[17:31] <kfogel> abentley: I'll take a look, thx.
[17:34] <schwuk> Getting weird behaviour trying to retarget a blueprint in LP - when I set the project to 'ubuntu', the target is actually set to 'launchpad'. Anyone else seen that?
[17:34] <schwuk> BTW - I'm on edge.
[17:36] <abentley> schwuk: I wouldn't think Ubuntu is a valid project.  It's a distro.
[17:37] <schwuk> abentley: yet other specs use it as a target
[17:38] <abentley> schwuk: But I would think they set "distro" to "ubuntu", not "project".
[17:41] <kfogel> How do you CC a bug in Launchpad?  Neither the generic bug tracker landing page nor the specific bug page (in this case, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/306394) documents what address one would mail in order to have the email become a comment in the ticket.  (Over in #bzr, Odd_Bloke just told me to CC a bug, and I'm trying to figure out how.)
[17:42] <schwuk> abentley: any idea how you target a distro then?
[17:42] <kiko> schwuk, what is the URL you're using to retarget?
[17:43] <kiko> kfogel, what do you mean by CC a bug?
[17:43] <gmb> kfogel: $bug-number@bugs.launchpad.net
[17:43] <gmb> kfogel: E.g. 306394@bugs.launchpad.net will add a comment to 306394.
[17:43] <kfogel> kiko: I'm writing a mail to bazaar@lists.c.c about a particular bug.  I want my mail to be "noticed" by the bug tracker -- the thread is something that should be reachable/visible from the ticket.
[17:43] <kfogel> gmb: thank you
[17:44] <gmb> np
[17:45] <kiko> kfogel, just CC the bug number, but to file a /new/ bug it needs to be gpg-signed by you and include an "affects" line. https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
[17:45] <schwuk> kiko: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/checkbox/+spec/qa-checkbox-policykit (although I'm using edge)
[17:45] <abentley> kiko: On staging, I've created a blueprint for ubuntu, retargeted it to ubuntu, and it ends up on launchpad.
[17:47] <schwuk> abentley: re-targetting to a different project works fine though.
[17:48] <abentley> kiko: This seems like a bug to me.
[17:54] <abentley> schwuk: I've created bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/blueprint/+bug/309048.  You may wish to subscribe to it.
[17:56] <schwuk> abentley: thanks - done
[18:02] <kiko> schwuk, abentley: I believe that is a reported bug, can't retarget blueprint from project to distro
[18:03] <abentley> kiko: I searched and couldn't find a relevant-looking bug.
[21:06] <MTecknology> I've been working with somebody else on porting the openid_launchpad openid_teams and openid modules for 5.x to 6.x
[21:07] <MTecknology> We have just two little things left that we're stuck on and we were wondering where we can get some help...
[21:07] <MTecknology> Rinchen: ?? ^
[21:07] <Rinchen> MTecknology, lay it on me
[21:08] <MTecknology> swe3tdave: you there?
[21:09] <MTecknology> Rinchen: wanna pop into #loco-drupal-dev ?
[21:09] <Rinchen> sure
[21:09] <MTecknology> Might be easier than flooding this channel
[21:10] <kfogel> abentley: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/94289  is about the problem we were discussing with salgado earlier, just FYI.
[21:54] <wgrant> Argh, why does all of the launchpad-users mail have crap in the subject?
[21:55] <wgrant> I know it's from launchpad-users; there are perfectly good headers to say that!
[22:00] <jml> wgrant: it's a mailing list convention.
[22:00] <wgrant> Which no other Ubuntu mailing list uses.
[22:00] <wgrant> And which is useless.
[22:02] <elmo> wgrant: to be fair, some Ubuntu mailing lists do; it's just not the default or common
[22:02]  * wgrant looks to see if he is on any.
[22:02] <flavour> So, what should we be exicted about for 2.1.12? (The release milestone didn't seem that clear to me & many docs linked from there were private :/)
[22:05] <wgrant> I think about two of my two-dozen Ubuntu-related mailing lists do the subject mangling, and they're basically dead.
[22:05] <wgrant> Why does Launchpad do it?
[22:05] <wgrant> Or is there a button I can click to tell it to get its hands off my subject lines?
[22:05] <Hobbsee> wgrant: you could probably make a procmail filter.
[22:05] <Hobbsee> hrm, the mailing list stuff went across
[22:05] <elmo> I don't think there's a button; it's a mailman per-list default
[22:06] <Hobbsee> one of them only, it appears.  strange.
[22:06] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Pardon?
[22:06] <Hobbsee> wgrant: to change the subject line?
[22:06] <Hobbsee> s/procmail/whatever
[22:06] <wgrant> 'one of them only'?
[22:07] <wgrant> I suppose I could do that, yes. But it seems like a bad default.
[22:07] <Hobbsee> yes, i have two subscribed.
[22:07]  * wgrant blames barry.
[22:07] <barry> oh jeebus
[22:13] <meoblast001> come on.. i was just trying to push revisions =P
[22:14] <Hobbsee> oh arg.
[22:14] <Hobbsee> i can't change the ML subscriptions, because LP is down
[22:15] <Ursinha> Hobbsee, see topic :)
[22:15] <Ursinha> we're rolling out to 2.1.12 \o/
[22:16] <meoblast001> Ursinha: does that mean opensource?
[22:16] <kfogel> hmmm:
[22:16] <kfogel> $ bzr push
[22:16] <kfogel> Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kfogel/bzr/306394-status-tolerate-nonexistent/
[22:16] <kfogel> ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused
[22:16] <kfogel> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
[22:16] <Ursinha> meoblast001, no, that means that we're upgrading launchpad to 2.1.12
[22:16] <wgrant> 3.0 means open source (at least I think I saw somewhere that those dates are aligned)
[22:17] <wgrant> kfogel: Launchpad is down for an update.
[22:17] <Ursinha> kfogel, it's because lp is down for the rollout
[22:17] <kfogel> wgrant: d'oh
[22:17] <kfogel> thanks
[22:17] <kfogel> np
[22:17] <meoblast001> Ursinha: /o\
[22:17] <kfogel> wgrant, Ursinha: I wonder if there's any (easy) way to make lp give an error message to that effect on most major connection methods?
[22:17] <kfogel> Like: 'bzr push'
[22:17] <wgrant> I was thinking you could run a dummy sshd that accepted all auth and gave a nice error.
[22:17] <kfogel> ssh: connection refused... : "Launchpad.net temporarily down for an upgrade"
[22:18] <kfogel> exactly
[22:18] <kfogel> wgrant: actually, that should be pretty easy too
[22:18] <wgrant> Or indeed rejected all auth, like it does with the 'no ssh keys for user' message.
[22:18] <Nafallo> we know what wgrant will be hacking on in 3.0 ;-)
[22:18] <mwhudson> there's a bug about that
[22:18] <Hobbsee> Ursinha: yeah, i figured :)
[22:19] <kfogel> mwhudson: ah, cool
[22:19] <Hobbsee> Ursinha: the error message came up too quickly fro it to be anything but scheduled maintenance :)
[22:19] <Ursinha> :)
[22:19] <wgrant> Nafallo: If they release that bit.
[22:20] <Nafallo> wgrant: meeh. stop trolling my trolls! :-P
[22:28] <MFen> is there any way to get logs of a particular launchpad project, aka popularity rating?
[22:57] <rockstar> wgrant, what if we release ALL the the bits you want to get into?  That'll be too many things for you to do?
[22:58] <rockstar> s/?$/!
[22:58] <jml> MFen: not yet.
[22:58] <Nafallo> rockstar: he went off to uni. should be back soon I hope :-)
[22:58] <MFen> but i wanna know my scoe
[22:58] <MFen> score
[22:58] <jml> MFen: what sort of stats would you be interested in?
[22:58] <Hobbsee> rockstar: it'll probably mean that he'll contribute more patches, and build more stuff off it :P
[22:59] <MFen> hits per day vs. other launchpad projects would be nice
[22:59] <rockstar> Hobbsee, but then he'll have to quick uni!  :)
[22:59] <MFen> if there are files to download (btw: i don't see a way to publish and files to download), then number of downloads
[22:59] <rockstar> s/quick/quit
[22:59] <Hobbsee> hehe
[22:59]  * rockstar quicks while he's ahead
[22:59] <Hobbsee> i'm sure he'd find the time somewhere
[23:00] <Nafallo> he usually do :-)
[23:00] <jml> wgrant: poolie1 filed a bug for a downtime sshd a while ago... it's definitely a good idea.
[23:01] <jml> MFen: there is a way, but it's buried deep.
[23:02] <jml> MFen: I've been wanting to get stats on branches for a while now.
[23:04] <jml> MFen: I'll dig up some stuff for the download problem though..
[23:04] <rockstar> jml, I have a secret plan for that already.  Wait 'til the Christmas break.
[23:05] <MFen> thanks
[23:05] <jml> rockstar: for downloads or branch stats?
[23:05] <MFen> i probably don't need it, i just thought it was odd that it was so hard to find
[23:05] <rockstar> branch stats.  Sorry for the ambiguity.
[23:05] <MFen> pypi and the PPA are hosting my releases
[23:05] <MFen> oh yeah! PPA popularity.
[23:06] <jml> MFen: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/121058
[23:06]  * jml does something a little naughty
[23:07] <MFen> thanks
[23:10] <jml> MFen: actually, exarkun has filed a slightly better bug for the same thing, so I'll dupe the quoted bug to that and assign it to sinzui :)
[23:11] <jml> MFen: PPA stats will probably need their own bug filed
[23:11] <luisbg> is there a way to get a private bzr branch in launchpad?
[23:11] <jml> luisbg: yes there is.
[23:12] <MFen> can you tell me what exarkun's bug is so i know what it means to file a better one?
[23:12] <luisbg> jml, how?
[23:12] <jml> luisbg: you'll need to talk to bac to arrange it.
[23:12] <luisbg> bac, ping, I need a private bzr branch :) please please
[23:12] <jml> MFen: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/273265
[23:13] <jml> MFen: by "better", I mean "asks for more".
[23:13] <sinzui> jml: MFen We expect to release a download counter in January
[23:13] <kiko> woooo
[23:13] <jml> sinzui: yay
[23:14] <MFen> sinzui: what will it cover?
[23:14] <MFen> i've mentioned page hits, file downloads, and ppa downloads
[23:15] <sinzui> MFen: It will report how many time any file included in a product release is downloaded
[23:16] <MFen> sinzui: ok, so that doesn't include ppa
[23:16] <MFen> sounds like i should open a new bug
[23:16] <sinzui> MFen: a bug? Do we have any download counter feature that is broken?
[23:17] <sinzui> MFen: you want the PPA counted too?
[23:18]  * sinzui thinks that is a sensible idea
[23:18] <MFen> a bug as in a distinct feature
[23:18] <MFen> i do want the ppa counted too, but since ppa is per-user and not per-project, maybe it would be separate?
[23:19] <MFen> if you could magically connect files in the ppa to a particular project, then sure, show those in the project
[23:20] <sinzui> MFen: I'll bring the issue up in tomorrow's meeting. The problem is somewhat different from the file release because PPAs are not explicitly downloaded via launchpad infrastriucture
[23:21] <jml> sinzui: aiui, ubuntu has some opt-in client-side tools to get stats on package installs already. maybe we could use those...
[23:21] <sinzui> jml: pant's on
[23:21] <MFen> the reason i'm focused on page hits and ppa is because i'm using pypi to host "files", not launchpad.  so basically i'm looking for anything else that could tell me how many users i have
[23:21] <sinzui> or spelled pants-on
[23:25] <sinzui> MFen: jml: ppas are a slightly different problem, and deserve their own story (spec). Once the ppa is deployed, it is outside of Launchpad's application. The files are in directories owned by a web server.
[23:25] <jml> MFen: watching the bugs filed is often a good way of guessing :)
[23:26] <jml> sinzui: yeah.
[23:26] <jml> sinzui: man, now my head's full of ideas again :\
[23:27] <MFen> jml: man i have unit tests! there won't be any bugs filed.
[23:27]  * MFen snickers a little
[23:27] <jml> MFen: haha
[23:28] <jml> MFen: dude, people file bugs about my unit tested unit testing helpers (see https://launchpad.net/pyunit-friends)
[23:30] <MFen> that's because people who use unit test helpers are the kind of people who write unit tests.  and those people are super-anal.
[23:30]  * sinzui is looking at popularity-contest for PPAs
[23:31] <jml> MFen: it's actually because anything used by unit tests is used a lot.
[23:32] <sinzui> PPAs appear to be reported in http://popcon.ubuntu.com/unknown/by_inst.gz
[23:50] <NCommander> sinzui, well, that would also include things like getdeb and such :-/
[23:50] <sinzui> yeah
[23:51] <kiko> bzr 1.10 to the masses!!
[23:51]  * kiko watches the bug page for the launchpad project