[15:24] <newz2000> quiet room lately
[15:24] <newz2000> I went to a drupal training seminar last week and learned a lot
[15:25] <newz2000> Canonical hired the person who is in charge of visual appearance (cf: mark's blog post about making Ubuntu prettier than OS X)
[15:25] <newz2000> if you were at UDS you may have met him, his name is Julian (Hubbard may be his last name)
[15:25] <nand> I were at his presentation (like everyone else), *sounds* promising
[15:26] <nand> now I'm looking at the actual results
[15:26] <newz2000> cool, I've hardly spoken with him so I'm eager to see action
[15:26] <newz2000> there's a job post for my team for a web *designer* http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_WD/
[15:26] <nand> I have always been a bit skeptical on designers speaking a lot too much :)
[15:26] <newz2000> in London though :-/
[15:27] <nand> designer I am not at all!
[15:27] <newz2000> nand: the difference between Julian and most designers is that he's been given authority by Mark S
[15:27] <nand> that is why I'm now eagerly waiting for the results :)
[15:28] <newz2000> We released the module for launchpad auth in drupal
[15:28] <newz2000> (for Drupal 5, not ready for D6)
[15:28] <newz2000> that was last monday
[15:28] <nand> yep, I have hacked it and submitted patches for a migration process
[15:28] <nand> that, we really need
[15:29] <nand> on the other side, the team plugin seems a bit broken, hadn't had the time to debug it yet
[15:29] <nand> got locked out of my admin rights as soon as I activated it ^_^
[15:29] <newz2000> oh? Interesting
[15:29] <newz2000> I've been using it on two sites very nicely, but just yesterday I too got locked out.
[15:29] <nand> My guess is it just erases roles, not merge them
[15:30] <newz2000> it does not modify the roles, yo uhave to map teams to roles
[15:30] <nand> temporary solution is to log in using user uid 1 or disable the module in DB
[15:30] <newz2000> oh, maybe not the same prob, I can't even log in as uid 1
[15:30] <nand> (not tested first solution, just a guess, used second solution :) )
[15:32] <newz2000> I do like the team/roles mapping a lot
[15:32] <nand> so will I!
[15:32] <nand> btw
[15:32] <nand> I heard you need to be marked on LP so that your website can receive these infos?
[15:33] <newz2000> if you file a bug in ubuntu-website I get it
[15:33] <newz2000> if it's outside of that project you may need to mark me
[15:33] <nand> ?
[15:33] <newz2000> (I'm also default for canonical-website)
[15:33] <newz2000> oh
[15:33] <newz2000> sorry, mis-understood your question
[15:34] <newz2000> do you mean you need group membership in launchpad?
[15:34] <nand> I mean, I heard that in order the team plugin to work, you need to register your website somewhere?
[15:34] <newz2000> oh. I thought that was not necessary now, but here's how to tell...
[15:34] <nand> I just heard that, not checked myself
[15:35] <newz2000> you try to login and the only data launchpad sends back is the openidurl. If lp tells you that it's sending your userid and/or email address that you're fine
[15:37] <nand> so far, I only get the login, not the email
[15:37] <newz2000> so it sends 'nand' back to the website or only the openid url?
[15:37] <nand> 'nand'
[15:38] <newz2000> then you're set I believe. Let me ask stuartm real quick.
[15:38] <nand> but ok, I know that you need to be registered somewhere to have mails too. The question is : do we need some similar case of registration for the LP teams plugin to work?
[15:39] <nand> boredandblogging: heya!
[15:40] <boredandblogging> nand: hey, how are you?
[15:40] <nand> still at work for now...
[15:41] <nand> just so that you can take time to critisize my quick mockup meanwhile : http://www.ndeschildre.net/downloads/UBnews.html
[15:41] <nand> newz2000: ^
[15:42] <nand> very quick one, with a few of the ideas I had
[15:42] <newz2000> ah, that was you
[15:42] <nand> please don't bite! :)
[15:42] <nand> me?
[15:43] <newz2000> btw, stuart says you need to register the site's "trustroot" which is in the docs.
[15:44] <nand> trustroot... okay, I'll see that
[15:44] <newz2000> so are we having our meeting now or are we doing it later?
[15:44]  * nand is still at work
[15:44] <newz2000> ok
[15:44] <nand> I'll much prefer having it once I'm back home
[15:45] <newz2000> sure, do you have a time in mind?
[15:45] <nand> 19 UTC, still okay?
[15:45] <boredandblogging> 19 UTC is fine with me
[15:45] <newz2000> sounds good to me
[15:45] <nand> good
[15:46] <newz2000> I need to make a trip to the passport office, apparently mine looks tampered with.
[15:46] <newz2000> it got wet.
[15:46] <newz2000> -$100
[15:46] <newz2000> :-(
[15:46] <boredandblogging> newz2000: did you have trouble with it when travelling?
[15:46] <newz2000> no, I was in the US so my driver's license worked
[15:47] <boredandblogging> right
[15:47] <newz2000> but I may have to go to London at the start of the year which will be a problem.
[15:47] <boredandblogging> oooh
[15:47] <boredandblogging> newz2000: there was an email on -news-team yesterday started by james westby about the calendar stuff
[15:48] <boredandblogging> I added you to it
[15:48] <boredandblogging> can you reply to it?
[15:48] <boredandblogging> think I've got everyone thinking about it at this point :-P
[15:48]  * newz2000 looks for it
[15:50] <newz2000> oh, filed under fridge
[15:50]  * newz2000 replies
[15:50] <boredandblogging> newz2000: thanks
[16:54] <boredandblogging> is it me or is it very hard to find well designed news sites?
[16:59] <nand> lemonde.fr ? france24.com ?
[16:59] <nand> okay, let's keep that for in two hours :)
[17:06] <boredandblogging> nand: I do like the layout of france24.com
[17:07] <nand> a problem common to lots of these news websites is : ads everywhere
[17:08] <newz2000> well, instead of comparing to other news sites, ask what is the goal and who is the user
[17:08] <newz2000> we may have different goals than other sites
[17:21]  * nand is going back home
[18:00] <newz2000> boredandblogging: I'm heading out the door a few min later than I expected, when nand comes back if I'm not back yet for our meeting I'll be only moments away
[18:00] <newz2000> (passport office is 10m away and I have the paper work already)
[18:00] <newz2000> cutting it close but should be back on time
[18:30] <nand> re!
[18:30] <nand> newz2000, boredandblogging: whenever you want
[18:31] <newz2000> ok, I'm back earlier than I expected... fail on the passport :-(
[18:31] <nand> forgot some paper?
[18:31] <newz2000> yeah
[18:31] <newz2000> try again tomorrow
[18:44] <boredandblogging> i'm ready as well
[18:45] <newz2000> ok boredandblogging, nand, lets go
[18:45] <newz2000> who wants to start?
[18:46] <boredandblogging> nand: ping
[18:46] <nand> yep, I'm here!
[18:46] <boredandblogging> so let me start
[18:46] <boredandblogging> the audience for the website
[18:47] <boredandblogging> basically, cover inter, intra, and external communication
[18:47] <boredandblogging> I place for teams to post things that members of their own teams want/need to know
[18:47] <boredandblogging> a place for locos to share their experiences doing things
[18:48] <boredandblogging> and show off what they have been able to
[18:48] <boredandblogging> so it will help all locos
[18:48] <boredandblogging> and in general
[18:48] <boredandblogging> communication with the outside world
[18:48] <boredandblogging> fridge should be where "outsiders" come to find out the latest happenings in the Ubuntu community
[18:49] <boredandblogging> maybe I should say the scope is everything :-P
[18:49] <newz2000> well
[18:49] <nand> Question: should we include external news, such as found in http://ubuntu-news.net/ ?
[18:49] <newz2000> boredandblogging: lets start with persona
[18:49] <newz2000> who is our user (or users) and what do they want?
[18:50] <boredandblogging> nand no, not unless its very high quality
[18:51] <nand> newz2000: My opinion is : all. Technically involved contributors, developers, and average non-technical users
[18:51] <newz2000> instead of all, lets define them. We can't please everyone and we don't want to become a yahoo-like portal
[18:51] <boredandblogging> newz2000: what nand said, does that sound too big of a scope?
[18:51] <newz2000> yes
[18:51] <newz2000> :-)
[18:51] <boredandblogging> ok
[18:51] <newz2000> Lets figure out three persona that we can cater to
[18:51] <newz2000> and we'll make the focus of them...
[18:52] <nand> persona?
[18:52] <newz2000> (not counting the admins or peopel who post events (necessarily))
[18:52] <boredandblogging> right, lets start with technical/developers
[18:52] <newz2000> for example, a loco team user who wants to know when and where the next loco team meeting
[18:53] <boredandblogging> thats not the use case I'm sure we are going for
[18:53] <nand> agree
[18:54] <newz2000> ok, go ahead, lets create the proper persona then
[18:54] <boredandblogging> its more like the LoCo had a release party, this is what they did to get it going, this is what happened, this is what they learned, etc
[18:54] <boredandblogging> and throw in some pictures and videos
[18:55] <nand> yep
[18:55] <nand> we could include the planning part, but that would be a secondary optional goal
[18:56] <newz2000> ok, so one persona is a team that wants to brag about an event that happened in the past, possibly uploading pictures or videos
[18:56] <boredandblogging> newz2000: correct
[18:56] <newz2000> so that may not even be the right track
[18:57] <newz2000> because that's focusing on the people who are publishing events, and they'll benefit little from a redesign.
[18:57] <newz2000> It's the people who are interested in reading about that event that need to be defined.
[18:57] <newz2000> And maybe those people aren't even a good target, it's the people who come to the fridge to get some kind of information that we need to identify.
[18:57] <newz2000> Once we do that then we can decide how best to meet their needs with the design.
[18:58] <boredandblogging> ah right, I see
[18:58] <boredandblogging> how about this...
[18:58] <boredandblogging> loco members who are trying to find out what other locos are doing?
[18:59] <nand> and want to gain experience, tricks and tips from them?
[18:59] <newz2000> ok, that sounds good
[18:59] <nand> (how did the french do to gather 4000 people?? :) )
[18:59] <boredandblogging> right
[19:00] <nand> next: Ubuntu teams members, contributors ?
[19:00] <nand> people in the loop, technically advanced
[19:01] <boredandblogging> one of the things james westby talked about was how sometimes developers fall off the map
[19:01] <boredandblogging> they go away for a while and then come back
[19:01] <boredandblogging> since MOTU stuff moves pretty fast, there is no way for them to keep track of what has changed
[19:02] <nand> and that's why they were talking about this Developer News
[19:02] <boredandblogging> right
[19:02] <boredandblogging> this applies to non-MOTU related activities as well
[19:02] <boredandblogging> say Xubuntu needs a new ISO tested
[19:03] <boredandblogging> the reader might be anyone looking to help out
[19:03] <boredandblogging> or looking for a way to participate
[19:03] <boredandblogging> is that vague?
[19:03] <nand> in this case, it is a third kind of person : potential contributor
[19:04] <newz2000> it is  a bit vague
[19:04] <newz2000> so these are people who are in the community but need to stay in touch with what's happening?
[19:05] <boredandblogging> right
[19:05] <nand> yes
[19:05] <newz2000> that sounds good enough
[19:05] <boredandblogging> and maybe a separate persona of people who want to find ways to participate
[19:05] <newz2000> let me make a sugegstion for another...
[19:05] <newz2000> people who are not yet sold on Ubuntu and want to find out what's going on or hear the buzz
[19:06] <boredandblogging> definitely
[19:06] <nand> the outsider category
[19:06] <boredandblogging> media folks who are looking for something to write about
[19:06] <nand> so summing all, we end up by targeting all people :)
[19:06] <newz2000> well, not really
[19:06] <nand> or let's say : who are we not targetting?
[19:06] <newz2000> not yet
[19:07] <newz2000> but we will
[19:07] <newz2000> we have three maybe four personas now we want to cater to
[19:07] <nand> who do we don't want to target?
[19:07] <newz2000> wait
[19:07] <newz2000> :-)
[19:07] <newz2000> let's restate our personas and ensure we agree
[19:07] <newz2000> locos - want to know what other locos are doing
[19:08] <newz2000> insiders - trying to stay in touch with what's going on
[19:08] <newz2000> outsiders / press - looking for use cases or success stories about Ubuntu
[19:08] <boredandblogging> yeah, looks right
[19:08] <newz2000> you started to mention a fourth...
[19:08] <newz2000> people who want to participate
[19:08] <nand> and we mentionned people wanting to contribute
[19:08] <nand> yeah
[19:09] <newz2000> is the fridge the best place for those? Do we currently help them?
[19:09] <boredandblogging> that maybe more of a ubuntu wanted thing
[19:09] <boredandblogging> or the Partipcate page
[19:09] <boredandblogging> Participate
[19:09] <nand> they may be inter related
[19:10] <nand> e.g. "Call for testing" : you need people fast
[19:10] <nand> you may want to put it in front page for a while
[19:10] <newz2000> ok, so that may be a good persona then
[19:10] <nand> but on the overall, yeah, wanted
[19:11] <nand> we don't want all help request on the news website. But a few once in a while would not hurt
[19:11] <boredandblogging> yeah, depending on what it is
[19:11] <nand> and concerning the Fridge, for outsiders, its visibility is very bad
[19:11] <nand> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=988278
[19:12] <nand> insiders : I'm not aware of any of us reading the fridge
[19:12] <nand> since its content can be found on the planet
[19:13] <boredandblogging> which we've discussed is a bad place to announce anything
[19:14] <boredandblogging> thats why we need to revive the fridge :-)
[19:14] <nand> oh, new numbers on the poll! It was worse before
[19:14] <boredandblogging> newz2000: so what do you think?
[19:15] <nand> and locos: basically they is very few content for them.
[19:15] <newz2000> I was wondering if we need to revise our persona, or do you think the original three are OK (considering the comment about "insiders")
[19:16] <nand> still ok for me
[19:17] <newz2000> ok, so we have our three persona
[19:17] <newz2000> who is not going to be best served by the fridge?
[19:17] <nand> why should one of these category be badly served?
[19:18] <newz2000> no, I mean who have we not discussed yet
[19:18] <newz2000> those that we are not catering to
[19:18] <boredandblogging> anyone who has no clue about Ubuntu
[19:19] <boredandblogging> which is ok
[19:19] <nand> for this, we need a good inter-website navigation, so that they can easily find ubuntu.com
[19:19] <newz2000> anyone else?
[19:20] <boredandblogging> not that I can think of
[19:21] <newz2000> ok, so we need to decide how to attract and serve our target users and how to deflect the others
[19:21] <newz2000> how can we make the target users happiest?
[19:21]  * newz2000 is putting this on the wiki btw
[19:21] <nand> lots of news
[19:21] <nand> and well organized
[19:21] <newz2000> do all three persona care about the same news or do they each want something different?
[19:22] <nand> different
[19:22] <newz2000> ok, for each, what do they want?
[19:22] <boredandblogging> i think at a high level most would be interested in knowing some of the same thing
[19:22] <boredandblogging> s
[19:22] <boredandblogging> for example, the 4000 people french release party
[19:23] <boredandblogging> it may be not technical, but it would surely interest everyone
[19:23] <nand> yeah
[19:23] <nand> the most interesting piece of news understandable by all categories of people
[19:24] <nand> pieces
[19:24] <newz2000> ok, so what do the loco users want to know?
[19:25] <boredandblogging> events, bug james
[19:25] <boredandblogging> jams
[19:25] <nand> events on the LoCo team ("new locos database", ...)
[19:26] <boredandblogging> i have a side question
[19:26] <boredandblogging> are their not categories of news that cross all personas?
[19:27] <newz2000> yes, there probably are
[19:27] <boredandblogging> for example, the Ubuntu Hall of Fame
[19:27] <nand> big pieces of news
[19:27] <boredandblogging> thats not loco or developmental specific
[19:27] <boredandblogging> free culture showcase, etc
[19:27] <newz2000> What's going to happen is that by identifying the needs of our users we'll create a homepage where everyone who is a target user gets satisfaction
[19:28] <boredandblogging> so all three personas find something for themselves on the homepage?
[19:28] <newz2000> yes
[19:28] <boredandblogging> makes perfectly good sense
[19:29] <boredandblogging> back to locos
[19:29] <newz2000> Events and bug jams so far
[19:29] <boredandblogging> think they would like to know the high level things
[19:29] <boredandblogging> free culture showcase
[19:29] <boredandblogging> open week
[19:30] <newz2000> maybe we should also identify what they don't want to see... is there something that would either turn them off or waste their time
[19:30] <boredandblogging> too much technical stuff :-P
[19:31] <boredandblogging> low level technical discussions or topics
[19:31] <newz2000> good
[19:31] <newz2000> here's what i have so far: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Persona
[19:32] <newz2000> we can revise this at any time so lets move on to the next persona, insiders
[19:33] <boredandblogging> interested in MOTU, docs, testing
[19:33] <nand> they will like news from their team
[19:33] <boredandblogging> or maybe they are just subpersonas of insiders
[19:34] <nand> and also getting the headlines from others teams
[19:34] <newz2000> nand, those last two combined == 'everything'
[19:34] <newz2000> :-D
[19:35] <nand> eheh
[19:35] <newz2000> What will turn the insiders off?
[19:36] <boredandblogging> hmm
[19:36] <nand> average users tip and tricks... well, any newbie related stuff
[19:37] <boredandblogging> which I doubt we will have much of
[19:37] <newz2000> ok
[19:37] <newz2000> Outsiders
[19:37] <nand> If we let people submit posts... :)
[19:37] <boredandblogging> nand: thats a whole different issue
[19:37] <boredandblogging> :-P
[19:38] <nand> Outsiders, we can see it in Brainstorm, want to know what's going on in the development of Ubuntu!
[19:38] <newz2000> I've made a note of it
[19:38] <nand> and while being technically accessible
[19:38] <boredandblogging> right, no one wants to join IRC or mailing lists to find out
[19:38] <nand> it's just out of question for them
[19:39] <nand> oh, and
[19:39] <nand> for the average user, Ubuntu is... everything. No upstream conception
[19:40] <nand> so they will expect news related to... every area
[19:40] <nand> Xorg, kernel, ...
[19:40] <newz2000> good observation nand, I think I agree
[19:41] <nand> they'll want to know when a new ATI hardware is supported, they'll want to know when a new big feature has finally landed on gnome, and so on...
[19:43] <boredandblogging> its fine if we can tell them, but can point them upstream if needed
[19:43] <newz2000> here's what I ahve so far: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Persona
[19:43] <nand> if they do have some kind of news items, of course.
[19:43] <nand> (and non technical ones)
[19:44] <nand> okay
[19:44] <boredandblogging> looks good
[19:44] <newz2000> so you're starting to see the kinds of things that would make a good homepage for our users
[19:44] <newz2000> and what to avoid
[19:45] <nand> A kind of three main subportal may be a good idea
[19:46] <newz2000> maybe, but as  you noted, some of the things are interesting to multiple target users
[19:46] <newz2000> so I wouldn't do one-column per persona
[19:46] <nand> oh nono I was not thinking of that
[19:46] <newz2000> instead focus on ways to get interesting data for each above the fold
[19:46] <nand> but roughly that: http://www.ndeschildre.net/downloads/UBnews.html
[19:47] <nand> (the big tabs)
[19:47] <nand> (roughly :) )
[19:47] <newz2000> sure
[19:47] <nand> First page combine a little of all, but no to almost no technical stuff at all
[19:47] <newz2000> nand, are you good at theming?
[19:48] <nand> I'm not really a designer. I can get some stuff done, but that takes me much longer than a designer would do :)
[19:48] <newz2000> if I give you my html and images can you make it into a theme?
[19:48] <nand> no problem
[19:49] <newz2000> ok, I have a working html template but it's not a drupal theme
[19:49] <boredandblogging> would now be a good time to talk about LP integration and videos?
[19:49] <newz2000> almost
[19:49] <nand> and language support? :)
[19:49] <newz2000> nand: it looks like yours but has better typography, simpler layout code and is fixed width (and we can adjust the width)
[19:49] <boredandblogging> oh yeah, I was gonna mention the width thing
[19:50] <newz2000> go for it
[19:50] <nand> yeah, do we want fixed or not?
[19:50] <newz2000> What I have is fixed but we don't have to use fixed
[19:50] <newz2000> if we do, I think the fridge can support a wide fixed-width
[19:50] <boredandblogging> if not fixed width, something that doesn't go all the way across
[19:50] <nand> pb with fixed is that it sucks on big screen. Pb with non-fixed is that it's harder to make a good theme of it
[19:51] <newz2000> yeah
[19:51] <newz2000> why don't we start with what I have
[19:51] <nand> what do you have?
[19:51] <nand> Oh
[19:51] <newz2000> it's pretty good and if we make it 950px wide it will work nicely
[19:51] <nand> and I forgot
[19:51] <newz2000> for most people
[19:51] <newz2000> (can be seen on shipit currently)
[19:52] <nand> by theme, you mean the outside of the page?
[19:52] <newz2000> yes
[19:53] <newz2000> just the shell, the brown part with the rounded corners
[19:53] <nand> ok
[19:53] <newz2000> I also have the graphic I made for the fridge currently if that helps (in svg format)
[19:53] <nand> we should maybe keep the design part for later and first see about languages, LP integration and videos?
[19:54] <newz2000> ok
[19:55] <nand> Concerning languages, why not make this available in several languages? Drupal offer the infrastructure to translate existing nodes
[19:56] <nand> that could be managed by community members
[19:57] <nand> a real life example is http://observers.france24.com/en/, http://observers.france24.com/fr/, http://observers.france24.com/ar/
[19:57] <newz2000> So where do people who want non-english ubuntu news go now?
[19:58] <nand> in their local loco team website, if it exists (rare), or... nothing
[19:58] <boredandblogging> yeah, depends on the locos who speak that language
[19:59] <newz2000> Ubuntu.com is english only and depends (and in the future will explicitly refer people to) localized sites.
[20:01] <newz2000> not saying same has to be for fridge
[20:01] <boredandblogging> the thing is, I'm not sure how much of the fridge would get translated if the option was available
[20:01] <newz2000> especially considering how fast news can change
[20:01] <newz2000> what about lp integration?
[20:01] <nand> we can let the local members decide what to put on their frontpage
[20:02] <nand> LP integration : tested locally on Brainstorm, works great.
[20:02] <nand> LP teams binding needs some bugs fixes
[20:02] <boredandblogging> i wanted this specifically for comments (can be used for other things if needed)
[20:03] <newz2000> ok, so to comment must have a launchpad id?
[20:03] <boredandblogging> if a reader is already logged into LP, use their name, maybe their profile pic
[20:03] <nand> sound ok. Avoid spam pbs
[20:03] <boredandblogging> newz2000: thats a tricky question
[20:03] <boredandblogging> would like it to be open, but I'm afraid of spam
[20:04] <boredandblogging> maybe some captcha could help
[20:04] <newz2000> there is spam blocking plugins like mollum and etc
[20:04] <nand> okay, one or the other
[20:04] <nand> if LP data available, display img and stuff
[20:04] <nand> otherwise too bad
[20:05] <nand> Videos?
[20:05] <newz2000> go for it
[20:06] <boredandblogging> yes
[20:06] <boredandblogging> this is my big thing
[20:06] <boredandblogging> i think the front page should always have a nice picture or video
[20:07] <boredandblogging> the content from UDS alone gives us material for a couple of months
[20:07] <newz2000> ok, would that be self hosted or on youtube/etc?
[20:07] <nand> I do agree, as much as possible, videos/imgs
[20:07] <boredandblogging> and I don't think we should be hosting any of the videos either
[20:07] <boredandblogging> youtube is being used for the UDS stuff
[20:08] <boredandblogging> we just embed
[20:08] <newz2000> I saw a good demo last week of how to add videos to your website when they're hosted elsewhere
[20:08] <nand> CCK and stuff
[20:08] <newz2000> piece of cake, though I don't know about the security/firewall concerns (with that server being able to ping youtube)
[20:08] <boredandblogging> i'm a bit worried about the different sizes that all the different sites use
[20:08] <newz2000> yes
[20:09] <boredandblogging> i tried embedding on the current fridge, and it let me
[20:09] <boredandblogging> at least when previewing, didn't actually submit it
[20:09] <nand> depend on the filter in use
[20:10] <nand> but the size of the player can be given to the player
[20:10] <nand> anything more on videos?
[20:10] <newz2000> http://youdrup.com/ youtube clone done in drupal
[20:10] <newz2000> :-)
[20:11] <boredandblogging> nie
[20:11] <boredandblogging> nice
[20:11] <Turl> newz2000: is there an ubuntu download page in other lang than english? you should make one if there isn't, or promote it if there is
[20:12] <newz2000> there is not, but one of my hopeful plans for next release is to make a syndicatable download iframe that can be localized
[20:12] <newz2000> that's an unofficial goal currently. :-)
[20:12] <Turl> great :)
[20:12] <nand> Now I'd like to see the frontpage:
[20:12] <Turl> and how's that automatic mirror selection going?
[20:12] <nand> it should not be in a blog format, where the latest comes first. Instead, items would be ordered by the editors
[20:13] <newz2000> Turl: good, I got approval for geoip but I'm going to have a meeting with #is this week or next to discuss it in details
[20:13] <nand> so that important pieces of news stay longer on top
[20:13] <Turl> #is? what's that?
[20:13] <newz2000> information systems
[20:13] <newz2000> the people who make the servers work
[20:13] <Turl> oh great :)
[20:14] <newz2000> performance is going to be a concern so we'll be playign with it some after the new year (tentatively)
[20:14] <Turl> I don't think you'll have performance issues
[20:14] <newz2000> yeah, the download page is currently proxied but not cached (so I hear)
[20:14] <Turl> how many simultaneous users use the download page? 500?
[20:15] <newz2000> geoip should not add much at all to that
[20:15] <newz2000> good question, I dont' know, but a lot
[20:15] <newz2000> but because it is proxied getting the correct IP can be a challenge sometimes
[20:15] <boredandblogging> do we need to discuss the front page more?
[20:15]  * newz2000 isn't worried though
[20:16] <newz2000> I'm ok with whatever you want to do on the front page
[20:16] <nand> ok, anything else?
[20:16] <Turl> a cheap VPS server can handle 500+ users on a forum (vBulletin) with the correct caching & webserver, I don't think you'll have any problems
[20:16] <newz2000> I can help with suggestions or technical difficulties but if you and nand want to head it up I'm fine with that
[20:16] <newz2000> Turl: ubuntu.com gets far far far more than that
[20:17] <newz2000> people litterally sit on the homepage and press refresh over and over again
[20:17] <Turl> yeah, but I don't think 100+ users at the same sec will enter the dl page, will them?
[20:17] <newz2000> yes
[20:17] <Turl> :O
[20:17] <newz2000> at times, like on release day for example. :-)
[20:17] <boredandblogging> nand: do you want to try creating a real theme and testing it out?
[20:18] <boredandblogging> then we can go over it and discuss?
[20:18] <Turl> well, you can have more than one vps server I imagine :p no problem either
[20:18] <newz2000> nand: why don't you draw it first
[20:18] <nand> boredandblogging: I'll try to refine the one I started
[20:18] <boredandblogging> you know, release early, release often :-)
[20:18] <nand> but that will take some time... I'm quite tired of working all day on a news website already ;)
[20:19] <newz2000> nand: I'll send you the the theme I started and you cn use it if you like
[20:19] <nand> ok thx
[20:20] <Turl> btw newz2000, I fixed the IE issue I had yesterday, with the help of css's top:
[20:20] <boredandblogging> nand: do we want to set a timetable for the first iteration?
[20:21] <boredandblogging> I don't know whats a good time estimate
[20:22] <nand> I may have something early January...
[20:22] <nand> I don't promise anything!
[20:23] <boredandblogging> nand: how about we say January 15th?
[20:23] <newz2000> nand: two emails sent, one with theme, one with fridge graphics
[20:23] <newz2000> cc'd boredandblogging
[20:23] <nand> newz2000: thx
[20:24] <nand> boredandblogging: I don't like fixed deadlines, that gives me extra pressure :)
[20:24] <nand> I'll let you know once I have something
[20:24] <boredandblogging> lol, ok
[20:24] <newz2000> every time you say that boredandblogging moves the date one day closer
[20:24] <boredandblogging> :-P
[20:25] <nand> boredandblogging: could you send me a little bit of the fridge DB?
[20:25] <nand> or even the whole DB
[20:26] <boredandblogging> newz2000: can you do that?
[20:26] <newz2000> I can get a dump of everything but the users table for you
[20:28] <nand> just need the node table, if my assumption that you're not using CCK is right
[20:29] <newz2000> sorry, you get it all. :-)
[20:30] <boredandblogging> heh
[20:30] <nand> :p
[20:30] <newz2000> hmm... maybe should have ignored sessoins table too
[20:32] <nand> yeahh, takes hundreds of Mb in brainstorm
[20:32] <newz2000> anonymous users
[20:32] <newz2000> learned a performance trick, using memcached for sessions helps a bunch
[20:32] <newz2000> haven't used it yet
[20:33] <newz2000> nand: can I give you a link to an 80m file for you to download and then let me know when finished, or would you rather do it tomorrow?
[20:34] <nand> newz2000: you can do it right now
[20:34] <boredandblogging> can't everything from the session table just get cleared occasionally?
[20:34] <newz2000> nand: ping me when you have it and I'll delete it
[20:35] <newz2000> boredandblogging: yes, cron.php clears out old stuff automatically
[20:35] <nand> newz2000: thanks
[20:35] <nand> newz2000: by default, it does not clear the session table
[20:35] <newz2000> oh, really? that explains a lot.
[20:36] <newz2000> the problem with sessions table is that it uses MyISAM table format by default and therefore locks the whole table for updates and deletes
[20:36] <newz2000> causing serious contention issues
[20:36] <newz2000> (basically site goes offline for long operations)
[20:36] <newz2000> I've got a script somewhere that clears it 1000 records at a time to avoid contention
[20:42] <nand> newz2000: okay, finished, thx
[20:42] <newz2000> my pleasure