[00:14] I'm trying to understand why the stance on this bug is "deal with it" anyone provide some insight? bug 173890 [00:14] Launchpad bug 173890 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree fails to install due to md5sum mismatch" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173890 [00:19] Palintheus: in what way? [00:19] "Either way, anyone wanting to use the Ubuntu package is going to have to put up with the periodic breakage. So my point is that they can either wait for the package to go through the update process, or install it themselves." [00:20] if someone happens to install flash during one of the times it breaks they could dump ubuntu right there, it seems that the wait or do it yourself attitude shouldn't be the right thing. [00:20] Palintheus: that's just one person's opinion though, in that comment [00:21] Palintheus: I wouldn't take that as the "stance" [00:21] the fact that it's not changed and marked fix released, yet it's currently broken makes me think different [00:21] the package was just updated with a new md5sum, not really a fix imho [00:21] Palintheus: why would you think that? [00:22] because I'm talking to someone right now who is having the issue and is pretty irritated about it after they found that bug [00:22] Palintheus: sure, no doubt [00:22] it's a very irritating bug [00:22] * Hobbsee mutters about propriatory software, and being annoying by default. [00:22] Ok. [00:23] very irritating to those of use who've had to deal with it [00:23] yes it is, it's a deal-breaker for a new user trying ubuntu [00:23] but as far as I know there isn't a really good solution outside of Adobe naming their files differently [00:23] which I *think* somebody was talking to them about [00:24] or give the user the option to ignore the warning [00:24] not as good, but a warning, you could break it do you still want to install [00:25] it's almost a dealbreaker for me and I've used ubuntu for 2+ years [00:25] I just decided to upgrade from hardy to intrepid and now I've got no flash [00:25] it's not particularly hard to install [00:25] that's not the point though [00:26] for a new user trying ubuntu the first time it would be [00:26] I realize that [00:26] but it's not as if you can't get the software period [00:26] right [00:26] LaserJock: but then does it get updated with normal updates, and is it easy to switch to the deb? [00:26] but more important than that is getting the issue resolved for other users [00:26] heaven forbid you have to go to Adobe to get their software [00:26] not fixing it for myself [00:26] Palintheus: no, and yes [00:26] in that order [00:26] I figured ;) [00:26] flash plugins never get auto-updated on $other_os either though [00:27] * maco waits for libswfdec to get even more awesomer [00:27] ok. [00:27] yeah, I tried using gnash, which just didn't work period [00:27] whether or not any other OS works the same way really isn't the issue though. [00:28] right, if Ubuntu wants to be noob-ready, this sort of thing can't happen [00:28] it does get a little irritating to get flamed when a service that other OSes don't provide breaks for a bit [00:28] we push things through about as quickly as we can [00:29] the breakage time sucks, no doubt, and it would be nice to figure out a better way to deal with it [00:29] wait what? I never "flamed" because of what another OS does that Ubuntu doesn't [00:29] Palintheus: not you, others [00:30] yeah [00:30] every time this happens [00:30] * Hobbsee wondesr why adobe doesn't bother getting their software into the partner repository [00:30] I've personally been pretty well jumped, even as I was pushing through an emergency update [00:30] Hobbsee: it is [00:30] there are two versions of flash in Ubuntu [00:30] oh, is it? [00:30] but, if we want to be better or as good as the rest, jsut because other OSes dont' have it shouldn't be relevant [00:30] ok, back to my original question...if it's so irritating why mark the bug fixed, when people see that and they are experiancing the issue I'm sure they get irritated [00:30] oh well, why is it still in multiverse then? [00:31] Palintheus: it was fixed last time [00:31] Palintheus: because it's installable again now. [00:31] wharp: is it? [00:31] Hobbsee: because it was in Multiverse first? [00:31] well how do we go about getting the underlying issue fixed, not just the symptoms [00:31] Palintheus: it breaks each time they change it. so whichever time that bug was filed, the package was updated, and yay it was fixed. and then adobe re-broke it. [00:31] LaserJock: doesn't mean that it needs to stay there, though [00:32] wharp: I think by pushing Adobe [00:32] wharp: get people to use the partner repository, and get it from there, where adobe and canonical people can get it uploaded directly. [00:32] that whole "convince adobe to change the darned name" idea [00:32] Hobbsee: yikes, I don't know that [00:32] *about that [00:32] LaserJock: why? [00:32] so far we've been faster than partner I believe [00:32] LaserJock: well, it depends if partner got added by default, or something. [00:32] isnt that why the partner repo exists? [00:32] wait, really? [00:32] we maintain Flash better than Canonical/Adobe I believe [00:33] well, then poke the partner people. They've got paid people to maintain it, they should maintain it. [00:33] adobe makes their own debs, dont they? [00:33] yep [00:33] wouldnt it just be a matter of dropping their deb into partner? [00:33] yep [00:33] we're faster ;-) [00:33] maco: ubuntu doesn't take binaries, afaik. [00:33] so people might get it a few days later, but there wouldnt be those few days of breakage in between? [00:33] but it might be a source pulling the binaries, or... [00:34] Hobbsee: even for partner? you sure? [00:34] it might, I can't remember [00:34] look at the .deb size [00:35] nah [00:35] it's the full thing [00:35] not like flashplugin-nonfree [00:35] maco: i would expect so [00:35] maco: id' be surprised if soyuz actually handled binaries uploaded, for anything. [00:35] yeah [00:36] in any case [00:36] it would be useful to find out if talks with Adobe ended up anywhere [00:36] Hobbsee: i didnt think the partner repo was done with soyuz. i thought they were just ftp'd up. [00:36] it *seemed* to me that they were fairly accomidating, but perhaps that got nixed [00:36] LaserJock: they were at least accomodating to have debs now instead of only rpms [00:37] OK, then if it's in partner wouldn't it be worth it to delay the package a few days (or is it longer than that) rather than have the breakage? [00:37] maco: new binaries from partner hit the new queue, so i don't think so. [00:37] Palintheus: there is *no* breakage if you use partner [00:37] Palintheus: in the partner repo the full binary is distributed [00:38] it doesn't use the same mechanism that flashplugin-nonfree uses to download from Adobe and install [00:38] but, partner is not how everyone says to install it, and most people dont' have it enabled, or know about it [00:38] yep [00:38] so I'd start enouraging people to use it, that's what it's there for [00:38] ok then if you have partner and multiverse enabled which repo does it pull from/ [00:38] and eventually we can phase out flashplugin-nonfree [00:38] or are they named differently [00:38] Palintheus: they have different names [00:39] partner is adobe-flashplugin [00:39] we *could* drop flashplugin-nonfree altogether and make people use partner [00:39] it's kinda "harsh" but would get people moved over [00:39] LaserJock: why harsh? [00:40] LaserJock: although handling upgrades would be a good idea [00:40] harsh in the sense that all those people out there reading "install flash by ..." [00:40] LaserJock: yeah, that does sound a bit harsh, but it sounds like the best idea to me [00:40] will get dropped [00:40] update the documentation, then [00:40] true, but articles get updated all the time [00:41] replace the package by "warning, this is now somewhere else, you need to use these steps" [00:41] its not jsut documentation, but hundreds of blog posts and articles across the web [00:41] in a gui [00:41] seems like last time I talked about this crimsun had a reason not to do it, but I could be remembering wrong [00:41] that's what I was going to suggest Hobbsee but didn't know if that was possible [00:41] Hobbsee: hmmm, not sure about that [00:41] wharp: can't see why not, as such. firefox and such do information bubbles. [00:42] I can imagine getting a whole lot of "darn it I installed it and restarte firefox but now flash, WTF?!!" [00:42] should a bug be filed on this? [00:43] LaserJock: is it possible to make flashplugin-nonfree a dummy package that enables partner and pulls in adobe-flashplugin? [00:43] wharp: ill go post to my blog that adobe-flashplugin is the "right" way [00:43] I don't know that you can run apt from a postinst [00:43] LaserJock: if there is a way to inform people when installing that the package has moved I don't see it being as big of an issue as that [00:44] LaserJock: shall i grab him and make him read my screen to respond? his X is hosed right now. [00:44] maco: sure [00:44] maco: I just can't remember what he said, but we went rounds about it I remember [00:44] obviously not enough rounds ;) [00:46] no, don't do anything with flashplugin-nonfree [00:46] asac and I discussed this at uds [00:47] there needs to remain an option for people to use 64-bit Flash alphas with nspluginwrapper [00:48] canonical can't ship these alphas in partner until the final release [00:49] eventually flashplugin-nonfree will be renamed (upon adobe's strong hint) to something along the lines of adobe-flashplugin-wrapped [00:49] what are the chances of flashplugin-nonfree going away and moving to adobe-flashplugin? [00:50] %50 [00:50] k [00:50] however, there is no guarantee that the native 64-bit version will ship in time for 9.04 [00:51] so like wharp asked, what is the best way to handle this from a user like us? a bug, just poking randomly? [00:51] (that was crimsun...i'm not that in-the-know) [00:52] there's no good way [00:52] bah. [00:52] well what's the best of the bad ways [00:53] update flashplugin-nonfree (via SRU) again [00:53] so file a bug when it breaks, and wait [00:54] and just deal with the breakage and hope [00:54] eventually flashplugin-nonfree will die (there will be a conflicts/replaces in adobe-flashplugin) [00:55] ok, so eventually it will move to partner? not following the terminology [00:56] no, adobe-flashplugin will remain in partner and eventually offer native 32- and 64-bit plugins [00:56] what's SRU? [00:56] it will C/R what was known as flashplugin-nonfree [00:57] ok let me rephrase. [00:57] eventually there will only be the package in partner? [00:57] flashplugin-nonfree's guts may end up as adobe-flashplugin-wrapped [00:57] ok [00:57] so if that does happen the original issue will still be ther [00:57] e [00:58] (md5sum breakage) [00:58] no, the adobe-flashplugin does not download from their servers [00:58] Palintheus: if and only if there is a package that explicitly depends on nspluginwrapper that also downloads the plugin [00:58] no, if -nonfree moves to adobe-flashplugin-wrapped [00:59] the intent in the long term is to have adobe-flashplugin Suggest nspluginwrapper [00:59] that way there is no more possibility of md5sum breakage [01:00] Ok, so eventually the goal is to get away from the current scheme? [01:00] i'm really trying to follow this, but it's hard without knowing the normal process of packages, etc [01:00] Palintheus: ys [01:01] and it's possible, but not likely to be done by 9.04? [01:01] ok, here, it's probably clearer like this: for 9.04, still adobe-flashplugin & flashplugin-nonfree. for 9.10, probably only adobe-flashplugin [01:02] awesome, thanks so much for explaining maco [01:02] (np. it's crimsun) [01:03] a blog post on this and the plan of action might help, if anyone has a chance [01:03] ah, well thanks crimsun ;) [01:03] sorry, was afk [01:03] maco: thanks for getting ahold of crimsun [01:04] np, he's hogging my kitchen table trying to configure his keyboard in evdev [01:04] wharp: an SRU is a stable release update [01:04] wharp: it's the process by which packages end up in -updates [01:04] wharp: it normally takes no fewer than 7 days [01:04] wharp: well seeing as we dont knwo the actual timeline yet, i'm hesitant to post on my blog all that crimsun said, but i'll go post about using adobe-flashplugin to avoid those md5 headaches [01:07] maco: gotcha, that makes sense [01:07] LaserJock: thanks! [01:12] wharp and Palintheus: the reason it can take time to do the update is because we need to test the new flash version [01:12] it's not *just* updating the md5sum and pushing it out the door [01:14] which is understandable, and that is why I want to get rid of the breakage, not fix it faster [01:15] ... if Adobe would just not use the same file name for different versions ... [01:16] I realize that. [01:18] I wonder how many fresh installs we must have a day [01:18] I'm always amazed how many people hit that bug [01:18] well this wasn't even a fresh install, but an upgrade to intrepid from hardy [01:18] and actually I was looking at another flash bug and the resolution was to reinstall [01:18] ah, right [01:21] LaserJock: lets please just not have that bug crop up within a week of a release! the screams of agony from the installfests would be heard round the world [01:23] maco: not a lot we can do about it at this point [01:24] how possible is it to source it grabs from adobe until the new release is put through SRU? [01:24] *to cache the source [01:24] we can't [01:25] well, hang on [01:25] you mean cache the source on the users machine? [01:25] no, grab it from adobe and host it somewhere static that would avoid the md5sum error util it can be updated [01:25] well, we can't do that [01:25] that's the whole reason we do it the way we do [01:25] * Hobbsee notes that would probably violate adobe's licence. [01:26] exactly [01:26] ah. [01:26] hence why we had to get rid of Acrobat Reader as well [01:26] i dont understand a desire for adobe acrobat readr [01:26] evince loads in about 1/4 the time [01:27] and doesnt have a 3 second lag while you wait for it scroll [01:27] acroread is still better for me [01:27] I use it much of the time over evince [01:28] well ive never actually tested acrobat on linux [01:28] serious? :-) [01:28] i just know it loads in about the same time as OOo on windows [01:28] sometimes uni students have to use it, with interactive pdfs. [01:28] yeah [01:28] and OOo isnt exactly filled with helium [01:28] I wouldn't be able to use Linux at Uni if it wasn't for acroread [01:29] (there, chem joke for ya, LaserJock) [01:29] heh [01:30] gotta run [01:30] it's been fun as always ;-) [02:41] hggdh: guess what [02:44] Hobbsee, surprise me [02:44] he is back? [02:44] hggdh: no idea. but account suspensions relaly work now. [02:45] COOL [02:45] finally... [02:45] yup [02:45] or at least, they really work as far as i can tell, i can't seem to break them. [02:45] heh [02:46] can we have multiple accounts mapped to the same email? [02:46] no [02:46] iirc [02:46] good, makes it a bit more time-consuming [02:46] certainly can't have a team using an email attached to anything else in LP [02:47] so i presume it can't for users too [02:47] I am afraid to try, and find myself locked out [02:47] i created a test account [02:47] wasn't willing to do it on my normal account either [02:47] yay [02:48] and I really do not want to go through the hassle of creating Yet Another Email Account [02:49] domain catchalls ftw! [02:51] I thought of that, but I would have to set up my mail server (and Verizon, my ISP, gets a bit antsy with that) [02:51] gmail handles mail for domains, if you wanted to go that route [02:51] hum [02:51] did not know that [02:51] will look at it === hggdh is now known as hggdh|away === BaD-Laptop is now known as BaD_CrC [05:36] anyone know if bug 309574 is in the right package? I would guess that should be flashplugin-nonfree, I have never seen the adobe-flashplugin package [05:36] Launchpad bug 309574 in adobe-flashplugin "Critical vulnerability in Adobe flash player" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309574 [05:36] mrooney: adobe-flashplugin is the package adobe makes themselves and puts in the partner repo [05:36] it actually includes the binaries [05:37] flashplugin-nonfree is in multiverse, i think, and it just downloads adobe's tarball and compiles it [05:37] oh, interesting, okay [05:37] the bug is actually in flash's stuff though, so i think it makes sense to put it in adobe-flashplugin. there's no software actually in flashplugin-nonfree [05:38] Presumably flashplugin-nonfree needs to be upgraded in order to make it download the newer version. [05:39] has a newer on been released upstream? [05:51] flashplugin-nonfree | 10.0.15.3ubuntu1~intrepid1 | intrepid-security/multiverse | source, amd64, i386 [05:51] it has already hit the archives [05:55] the corresponding fixes for partner are at: http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_10.0.15.3-1gutsy2.dsc http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_10.0.15.3-1hardy2.dsc http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_10.0.15.3-1intrepid2.dsc [05:56] alexander has a testing version in his ppa for jaunty that pulls from partner instead of downloading from adobe. however, his version does not include the native 64-bit plugin; it's the nspluginwrapper-enabled 32-bit version for both 32- and 64-bit. [05:56] mrooney: i've triaged that bug [05:57] crimsun: great, thanks! [05:57] crimsun: the jaunty plugin pulls the 64bit plugin [05:57] er, jaunty flashplugin-nonfree ... [05:57] kees: not _his_ version. i know yours does. [05:58] okay, right, cool. I wasn't sure if anyone had noticed my upload yet. :P === LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox [06:10] good morning === WelshDragon is now known as Guest27540 [06:16] dholbach: hello [06:17] hi maco [06:22] X crashed, and i'm actually running a stable release -_- === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [08:31] gnomefreak: ping [09:28] can some one from QA take a look at bug 309483 and help the user collect the extra details he need to file? thanks [09:28] Launchpad bug 309483 in linux "Ubuntu 8.10 Shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309483 [09:37] Hew: ^^^^^^^^ [09:49] BUGabundo_work: Ugh shutdown freezes.. I'm not sure, if the message is relevant then maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingACPI will help? I think linux is the correct package so hopefully someone more knowledgeable will triage it. [09:55] ok [09:56] since he mentioned acpi, I filed it against kernel [09:58] yea linux is correct I think, but ACPI problems are usually related to a refusal to boot, from my limited knowledge. I'm not good at triaging linux bugs :P [10:00] BUGabundo_work: I added the DebuggingACPI comment just in case, perhaps acpi=off will fix the shutdown issue, who knows. [10:04] yeah [10:04] but now the website PT team will also be subscribed to it! nasty LP bug! === theseinfeld is now known as theseinfeld|away === theseinfeld is now known as theseinfeld|away === theseinfeld|away is now known as theseinfeld [12:46] ciao a tutti [12:50] anche in thunar non appaiono ho dovuto installare pcmanfm [13:26] !it | xubuntusdi [13:26] xubuntusdi: Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (click col tasto destro sul nome del canale per entrare) [13:28] auau [13:28] didn't know we had a multi ling bot! [13:28] !pt | me [13:28] me: Por favor use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em português. Obrigado. [13:28] UIIIIII [13:28] PT != BR grrrrrrrrrr [13:28] hehe [13:29] !pt_pt | me [13:29] Sorry, I don't know anything about pt_pt [13:29] will some teach him better!! [13:30] I think its ok, the brazilian community is way bigger than the portuguese one BUGabundo_work :) [13:32] I know [13:32] but with don't always get along [13:32] at least with should list BOTH channels [13:44] BUGabundo_work: ubuntu-de is used both by austian and german users [14:07] sorry I need help I xubuntu 8.10 unfortunately I can not see the disk partitions in Thunar on the desktop or Places able to enter only after you install pcmanfm that? I can to view the partitions ... [14:14] xubuntusdi: User support is in #ubuntu (or #ubuntu-it) [14:15] ops sorry [14:15] :P [14:15] Helloo [14:15] hi === LimCore_ is now known as LimCore [14:25] Hi. Can someone set the inportance of bug #304482 to "low" ? Thanks in advance [14:25] Launchpad bug 304482 in evolution "Birthday reminder on wrong date" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304482 [14:36] MrKanister: Done, thanks for your help :-) [14:37] Hew: Thanks for helping me to help ;) [14:37] hehe no worries === Fallenou_ is now known as Fallenou === Richie is now known as WelshDragon [16:09] hello [16:14] fjk: hi [16:15] hi fjk === pckchem_ is now known as pckchem [16:25] i have problem with run my nvidia-settings can i ask for help here ? [16:26] Sure [16:26] Although the prefered channel is #ubuntu [16:26] when im trying to run nvidia-settings i recive: [16:26] The error was 'BadLength (poly request too large or internal Xlib length erro'. [16:26] (Details: serial 141 error_code 16 request_code 128 minor_code 17) [16:26] glxinfo: name of display: :0.0 [16:26] Error: couldn't find RGB GLX visual or fbconfig [16:27] fjk | !paste [16:27] !paste [16:27] pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic) [16:27] nvidi settings say that is bug [16:27] sry [16:28] http://paste.ubuntu.com/88596/ [16:29] Try this [16:30] http://paste.ubuntu.com/88598/ [16:30] It's from the forums, I'd have referenced you to the post but they are down and I used a cached version [16:31] but i have glx module in xorg.conf and im think it is loaded [16:31] hmm. [16:31] my compiz works fine [16:31] but im cannot luchn f.e. counter strike [16:32] im think there is some acceleration when compiz works [16:32] but something mismatch with gdm librares.. ? [16:32] It's an interesting problem for sure and I'm reading a forum post by someone who has the exact same symptoms and circumstances. [16:33] im trying to install intel linux graphics drivers [16:33] coz im have ubuntu on usb disk and using it in home (nvidia) and in work (intel) [16:34] i think im uninstall almost everything except dmr module [16:34] erlier im trying to lunch opengl on intel graphics card [16:35] and from now i have troubles in home with nvidia-settings [16:35] it is clear ? [16:35] ory for my eng === brianchidester is now known as brianchid_ [16:35] It's fine, actually. I didn't notice. === brianchid_ is now known as brianchidester [16:36] The problem with these USB installations is that often times the specific kernel and settings for ubuntu is set according to the computer you installed it on first. [16:36] wanna some my logs ? === brianchidester is now known as brianchidester_ [16:36] So when you try to plug it into something with different hardware, things get a bit troublesome. [16:36] im using this usb system since three months and never have troubles === brianchidester_ is now known as brianchid [16:36] From what it sounds like, installing the intel drivers started this problem, yes? [16:37] im should not try instal this driver [16:37] yes im think that [16:37] yes that im think :) [16:38] Yes, I'm *thinking* that. [16:38] Close :) [16:38] i have proper resolution anc color depth.... [16:38] Have you tried reconfiguring the x server? === brianchid is now known as brianchid1 [16:38] yes === brianchid1 is now known as brianchidester11 [16:38] manualy from console and automaticly from recovery kernel [16:39] mybe there is some problem with opengls libraries === brianchidester11 is now known as brianchidester [16:39] It could be. Are you using the proprietary NVIDIA drivers? [16:39] yes === brianchidester is now known as brianchidester11 [16:40] im alredy using its [16:40] Have you tried reinstalling them? [16:40] tes [16:40] im trying reinstall, and chanding from 177 to 173 === brianchidester11 is now known as brianchid [16:40] nothing helps [16:42] wanna some logs ? [16:42] I can take a look at them, but since I'm not an expert I only tend to get a minimal amount of information out of them. [16:42] :| [16:42] any other suggestions ? [16:43] I'm combing my resources right now, give me a minute. [16:43] ok [16:43] mysbe im boot to ubuntu ? [16:44] ok ill be back in few minutes [16:44] im going to boot ubuntu [16:44] one second [16:44] ok [16:45] can you pastbin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file [16:45] ok [16:45] moment [16:53] hi [16:53] hello again [16:54] http://paste.ubuntu.com/88617/ [16:55] can I also have your xorg.conf? [16:56] yes === brianchidester is now known as brianchidester1 [16:56] but, now there is no information in conf when im using automaticlu configuration :( [16:56] i have my own config file [16:57] well post it anyways, that might be the problem. [16:57] http://paste.ubuntu.com/88618/ === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler [16:58] and this is my config file which im using when im in home http://paste.ubuntu.com/88619/ [16:58] but now my config is overwiritten by configuration from recovery mode === brianchidester1 is now known as brianchid [17:00] can you run glxinfo|grep accel [17:00] in terminal === brianchidester is now known as brianchidester1 [17:02] pastebin what comes out === brianchidester1 is now known as brianchid [17:02]